Traveller-digest     Saturday, September 5 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 800



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

A comment on deck orientation
Re: Large Scale Miniature Battles
Re: Deckplans
Re: MegaTrav links
Striker (was Large Scale Miniature Battles)
Re: Alternity / Just when I thought...
Re: Cheap energy in Traveller
Cheap Energy In Traveller
Re: Striker (was Large Scale Miniature Battles) 
Re: Burning down the House
More comments on the Stillwell
Re: Corsican upstarts
Amber & Red Zones - social only?
MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?
Re: Corsican upstarts
Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?
Re: Ordering HIWG CD
Re: Akus Moby replay
Honourable behaviour...
Re: Filtering out CO2
Re: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet, a request...
Re: Starship Insurance Costs
Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 00:30:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: A comment on deck orientation

I have noticed a lot on parellel vs perpendicular desks. I want insert
my two cents. IMTU as  I use advanced reaction thrusters (real
thrusters).  I have all parellel designs. Why? for many of the same
reasons stated. My cargo crates are magnetically bolted to the floor of
the cargo bay.  When a ship accelerates no one feels it because of the
ineratial compensators. I stole Star Treks structural integrity field to
allow higher G ratings (remember no jump drive. The warp metric
retreives its own fuel via fuel scoops and this fuel is ZPE).  
  Perpendicular is too complex, inconvenient and costly for me. Yes
costly. I have too many things that cover too many decks. I believe that
perp is a sort of mental laziness.  The segmented can scenario. I draw
many small sections rather than two or three large ones.
   As to parellel designs being like airplanes, I prefer to look at subs
and naval ships. No prep there. Why?  Same reasons I stated.  And
remember, the only difference between an ocean and space is space is
larger, colder and has gravity. 
     I think the discussion, while interesting, is moot. None of the
known sci-fi authors (movie or otherwise) has designed prep and I doubt
seriously if TU really existed, AHL would be perp. I chalk it up to
fertile yet wrong imaginations.  

Mike
Canon have killed many people down through the centuries.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 01:31:08 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Large Scale Miniature Battles

striker II uses the command decision rules so there fore the 2 are compate
able.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Eric Ackermann <eackerma@vt.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 12:19 PM
Subject: Large Scale Miniature Battles


>Anyone have any suggestions for rules for large SF actions using 25mm
>miniatures? I have Striker II, but was looking for something that has each
>base as a squad or platoon (e.g., as Command Decision III does for WWII).
>Preferrably useable with the Traveller Universe, but not required.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Eric Ackermann
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:53:42 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Deckplans

> > > On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 03:08:03 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > >> Oh yeah, for the folks worried about landing legs on soft ground
> > >> causing a ship to topple? I suggest re-reading the description of
> > >> starport types. Why do you suppose that type E is described as
> > >> "essentially a marked spot of BEDROCK"? Maybe to avoid exactly that
> > >> problem? 
> > > And the Chevy Corvette was engineered to drive on asphalt or concrete
only,
> > > yet this hasn't stopped people from driving them on gravel or even
dirt
> > > roads.
> > Chevies don't have the sort of ground pressure a starship's landing
> > gear does.
> That wasn't quite my point.  I meant that even though a vehicle was
> designed to be used in a certain environment, people still like to exceed
> what the engineers originally had in mind.  And this would include
4x4'ing
> a Corvette or landing your Free Trader somewhere in the wilderness.  But
I
> get your point about the radar devices used by archeological digs, etc.

Just one point here...  If a ship has Contra-Grav then would it not be able
to hover for the time you need it to?

> James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
> "http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)
> 
>   "Boy, Data, you look great in a push-up bra!" -- Riker

Yes, I remember that Ep of Star Trek, The XXX Generation...

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:45:17 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: MegaTrav links

Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:37:05 EDT DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:


>     Can anyone send me any links they may have for web pages that deal w/ MT?
>Any info would be greatly appreciated (and it's a great chance to plug your
>site!  :-) )


It sure is a great chance for a plug - mine is here:

http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann/traveller.htm

There are some MegaTraveller robots, some library data and a single deckplan.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:59:25 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Striker (was Large Scale Miniature Battles)

>From: eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackermann)
>Subject: Large Scale Miniature Battles
>
>Anyone have any suggestions for rules for large SF actions using 25mm
>miniatures? I have Striker II, but was looking for something that has each
>base as a squad or platoon (e.g., as Command Decision III does for WWII).
>Preferrably useable with the Traveller Universe, but not required.

  Try the original Striker, available either from: <FarFuture@aol.com>
or occasionally from: <www.titan-games.com>
 
  Well worth it IMO, although you'll likely heave the command rules.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:59:37 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Alternity / Just when I thought...

>From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
>Subject: Re: Just when I thought...
...
>I'm not sure it will go anywhere. I'm not sure any new game will go
>anywhere. (The ST book you describe sounds like a coffee table collectable,
>not a RPG.) But there are ideas I would steal for traveller. Not the
>setting, though. The setting sucks.

  I dropped by their mailing list, and when some lost soul inquired about
other possible settings to use I helpfully volunteered Traveller :> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 01:27:49 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Cheap energy in Traveller

...
>From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
>Subject: Cheap energy in Traveller
...
>1,000 kg), an A power plant then can deliver 380,000 MW-years 
>of energy over a period of one week. Over a year, it could deliver 
>19,800,000 MW-years. Thus, a single A power plant produces 
...
>             - Greg Costikyan, 1982
>
>OK, I have heard that some folk here actually did model a 
>universe where energy is *this* cheap.  How did that universe look like?
>What was the consequences of ultra-cheap energy in a society?
>What becomes cost-effective, and what simply isn't worth the time?
>Does it change society as much as cheap nano-tech would?

  It might be useful to consider that we now know that a CT powerplant
really produces "only" 250 MW per HG powerplant # per 100 D-Tons of
vessel. Beyond that it's unclear whether Mr. Costikyan was being
absurdist or merely careless. Given his other work on interstellar
trade and his analysis of trade in Traveller in particular I have
to wonder just what his purpose might have been in making such incomplete
or inaccurate observations.

  I once ran a too-brief campaign where the background made supposedly
more realistic interpretations about the ramifications of cheap energy
technology, although not to the extent that you're likely thinking.
There may very well be scarcity still of certain things, not least human
talents and skills. Also, while an installed facility might provide large
amounts of cheap power, it may not be mobile (a la fusion in 2300 AD), or
it might just cost like hell anyway.

  The cycle has to maintain itself for some time before cheap energy
extends to a potential cheap supply of the power generators themselves.
You can make some startling contrasts in such a background between the
various have-nots and the ultimate haves.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 18:39:08 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Cheap Energy In Traveller

Alvin Plummer wrote :-

> Extract from http://www.crossover.com/~costik/inttrav.html
>
> "The smallest power plant which may be installed on a ship in
> Traveller is a standard "A" power plan. The A-plant can consume
> 20 tons of hydrogen over a period of a week, convert it to energy,
> and feed it to an "A" FTL drive. (This is how much energy is needed
> by the smallest FTL drive to make a jump of 1 parsec if installed in
> a 200 ton ship.) If we assume Miller is using metric tons (1 ton =
> 1,000 kg), an A power plant then can deliver 380,000 MW-years
> of energy over a period of one week. Over a year, it could deliver
> 19,800,000 MW-years. Thus, a single A power plant produces
> about 86 times as much energy in a year as all of the electrical
> generating plants in the United States. A single jump in Traveller
> uses about 160% of the energy the US produces in a single year. "
>              - Greg Costikyan, 1982
>
> OK, I have heard that some folk here actually did model a
> universe where energy is *this* cheap.  How did that universe look like?
> What was the consequences of ultra-cheap energy in a society?
> What becomes cost-effective, and what simply isn't worth the time?
> Does it change society as much as cheap nano-tech would?
>
Hmm. Have plentiful energy, do lots of things.
My take on this is that the tech level index in Traveller is a
logarithmic scale based on energy availability in a given culture.
Examples of fiction set in energy rich universes include John Varley's
'Ophiuchi Hotline' and the Culture novels of Iain Banks : 'Consider
Phlebas', 'The Player of Games', 'Use of Weapons', and 'Excession'.
Greg Costikyan's comments were made about Classic Traveller, given the
quoted date.
A rationale advanced in later years, perhaps in response to this
criticism, was that part of the fuel required for the jump was fused to
energise the jump grid and create a jump bubble ; the majority of the
fuel was emitted from the ship while it was in jump space to stop the
bubble from collapsing and destroying the ship.....

Fusion produces a lot of energy ; all of the good gear that becomes
available at the same time uses it up.

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 05:31:48 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Striker (was Large Scale Miniature Battles) 

> >Anyone have any suggestions for rules for large SF actions using 25mm
> >miniatures? I have Striker II, but was looking for something that has each
> >base as a squad or platoon (e.g., as Command Decision III does for WWII).
> >Preferrably useable with the Traveller Universe, but not required.
> 
>   Try the original Striker, available either from: <FarFuture@aol.com>
> or occasionally from: <www.titan-games.com>
>  
>   Well worth it IMO, although you'll likely heave the command rules.

The command rules are what makes it *interesting* and more realistic.  In 
other miniatures rules I've seen, you can exploit an opponent's mistakes 
instantly.  In Striker, you *HAVE* to use chain of command in both directions. 
 Cool stuff, IMNSFBHO.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 01:46:08 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Burning down the House

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote

> >From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>

> >So has anyone else noticed that prior to his conquest of Egypt a 
> >certain French Emperor by the initials NB was doing somewhat better 
> >at the conquering the world game then he did after he conquered 
> >Egypt. Conincidence?  You be the judge....

>   Nice try, "Mr. Newman", if that's your real name. However, at the 
> time of his adventures in Egypt, the Corsican was supposedly serving 
> the Directory, as neither his own primacy nor the Empire had yet been
> established. 
>   After his failure and return to France, he succeeded to the pinnacle 
> of power under a new constitution that established...
>   ...the "Consulate".
>   Coincidence?

There are no coincidences Citoyen Hudson.  You do not really think that
_They_ would not have ensured their influence over the chaotic French
state.  Since, as Kenji & I have already established, we know that the
Nineteenth century was a hotbed of plotting between Vilani & Hiver
agents is it really all that surprising that a few other "Major Races"
(ie those that Cthul, er Yaskodr, er nevermind, helped out) had agents
in place.  

Which other Major race of terran descent would be most comfortable in
the chaotic quickly changing political conditions of the Comite de Salut
Public, conditions in which a politician could quickly rise to the top
using only their Charisma (and a suitably large pile of guillotined
Ci-devant aristo bodies)?  Of course any plan of _theirs_ was bound to
fall apart sooner or later due to their own disorder.  This is how the
Var, er Jacobins, fell and were replaced by the Directory as part of the
Vil, er Thermadorian Reaction.  Little did the Directorate know that
they too were on the way out.  It is sort of odd that the powers behind
the Consulate did know ahead of time that a little Corsican nobody was
destined for greatness.  Why it is almost as if they could see the
future....

Peter - having a sudden disturbing view of a crossover between GURPS
Traveller and GURPS Scarlet Pimpernel [unspoken premise _all_ GURPS
books cross over with GURPS Illuminati]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:55:34
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: More comments on the Stillwell

>From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
>Subject: Mercenary Cruiser Redesign
>
>Approved for release: Eqenden Industries
>Lt Terry VonDamme, SSgt Arden Stillwell class Assault Troopship, Light 
>(FF&S v2)	
>Designed by Douglas Glatz	
>
>Statistics
> 
>Performance	
> 2 Jump (80std/pc fuel /Ar:10 [40])
> 1.9/2 Maneuver (/Thruster:560MW /Ar:10 [40])
> 0.9/1 Contra-grav (190MW /Ar:10 [40])
> 3347kph/3554kph Atmosphere (/Crus:2510kph/2666kph)
> 2 Power (/Fus:350MW,1yr /Fis+:500MW,672hr  /Ar:10 [40])

This ship relies on The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus to keep the jump
bubble working. Rip it.

In any case, TAKAFP is an abomination in the sight of God and Man.

>Weaponry		
> 2xLaser Turret (+0) 1/2-0-0-0 [2,100/15-7-4-2] (LR /Ar:40 [200])
> 2xMissile Turret Auto 1/4 ( /Mag:15 /MFD:500,000km /Ar:0 [20])	
>	w/16 Cmd DL 1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
> 2xParticle Accelerator (+4) 2/0-0-0-0 [1,100/0-0-0-0] (LR /Ar:0 [20])

What is the megajoulage and range of the PAWs ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:58:35 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Corsican upstarts

> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:24:37 +0100
> From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Corsican upstarts

> Everyone knows that Napoleon was a great believer is 'his star', and
> followed it throughout his career.

Well, not everyone - I was never big on Napoleonic history....

> He once (paraphrase mode on) had his polices queried by some religious
> bloke. Napoleon took him outside and pointed at the night sky. See that
> star? No, THAT one! he said. The religious guy couldn't so he said 'well
> push off then, because I can see what you can't'.

> Paraphrased, but this strange belief in 'his star' is disturbing. His very
 > own Hiver? Or what?

You don't know about the Mind Control Satellite, then?

Alvin Plummer
(But how did the completely non-psi Hiver's get knowledge of psionics?)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:18:13 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

I'm aware that, in Offical Traveller, A - and R-Zoned worlds
can be zoned for a variety of reason's, from hiding
mistakes that the Imperial Navy made to protecting the
local fauna to hostile envionment's.

I'm wondering about the last one.  Given Travelelr's
high tech level, should any system be zoned because of
environmental influences?  After all, no world is automatically
red zones because they have a corrosive atmosphere, but 
high Law/Gov level's automatically earn Red or Amber zones.

(An exception: I recall a starsystem in Challange whose star
tend's to destroy jump drives after a few hour's.  This system is
red zoned.  I have no objection about zoning because of THAT!)

Alvin Plummer
Can anyone give me info on "Blue Zones", found in Jim V's
Galactic program?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:03:37 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???

Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
tables for Orangs and Gibbons?



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 08:52:43 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

At 09:18 AM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote:

>I'm wondering about the last one.  Given Travelelr's
>high tech level, should any system be zoned because of
>environmental influences?  After all, no world is automatically
>red zones because they have a corrosive atmosphere, but 
>high Law/Gov level's automatically earn Red or Amber zones.

Picture a world with an airborne version of rabies, with a long incubation
time.  *Any* exposure to the world's atmosphere exposes you.  Might be
easier to declare the place off-limits.

High radiation levels, extremely nasty local wildlife.. any yhting that
presents a real threat to anyone who landed there.

A few years back I did a critter that had a telepathic ability to track
prey, and used the telepathy talent Assault to kill prey.  The beasts'
homeworld was Red Zoned.  Why?  Because if you survived the attack, it jump
started the victim's natural psionic abilities!

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:08:04 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Corsican upstarts

alvin plummer wrote:

> You don't know about the Mind Control Satellite, then?
> 

You mean the one , over there, left of the Satellite of Love? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:16:23 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

alvin plummer wrote:

> I'm wondering about the last one.  Given Travelelr's
> high tech level, should any system be zoned because of
> environmental influences?  After all, no world is automatically
> red zones because they have a corrosive atmosphere, but
> high Law/Gov level's automatically earn Red or Amber zones.
>

Red and Amber zoning, remember, is designated by the Travellers Aid Society,
not the Imperium. TAS Red zones Imperial naval quarantines, so those are
automatically on the list, but the others are done by the TAS based on their
danger to travellers. Officially it's for TAS members only, but as the TAS
became a well known and respected organization, their designations took on an
air of official status.

However, much like Mobil's restaurant guide, they're still designated by a
private organization, so they can set the criteria any way they want. So lots
of places that are just the pits to visit, get designated Amber or Red. Or
anyplace that's pissed off the TAS...heh heh heh...

Given that TAS runs the most widely known news service as well, the actual
power that TAS exerts over the Imperium is considerable.

BUT, given that most of the Old Boy/Girl/Vargr/Etc nobles that _run_ the
Imperium, are also probably TAS members, it's a much more intertwined thing.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:26:15 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: Ordering HIWG CD

Ok.. I've recieved my CD-rom and it rocks I really like it.. 
please put me on the list to recieve the information on the GDW cd-rom..
that should be kkeewl too.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:24:49 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Akus Moby replay

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: September 4, 1998 7:31 PM
Subject: Akus Moby replay


>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, is the list be interested in a synopsis of what has happened in
>> my Akus Moby PBEM up to this point?
>> 
>Why not? I like reading any of this sort of thing. If the others do not
>then maybe you would grace my e-mail with a synposis if and when you
>have the time and inclination. Thank you.
>
>Jim Cooper
>
>
ditto

wayne ewart
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:26:27 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Honourable behaviour...

I am thinking of two incident's in American history: one, where 
General Lee discussed how much he disliked the concept of
a Secret Service, and an other, when apparently the U.S. disbanded
a secret service after World War One because "gentlemen 
do not read each other's mail."

Both could be considered a manifestation of honour, assuming honour
is defined as "Personal integrity maintained without legal or other 
obligation". (Webster's, 1984).  Exactly how does the Imperium
display integrity to its citizen's, an integrity which is not obligated
legally?

Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:23:26 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Filtering out CO2

At 01:26 pm 9/2/98 +0200, you wrote:
>David J. Golden writes:
>
>>>2) Yes, you can filter out CO2 easily, using a particular
crystalline 
>>>material (I forget the name).  The same system has been used in 
>>>spacecraft and submarines for decades.
>> 
>>	To be technical, it's not filtered but absorbed, by lithium
>>hydroxide. Big deal--to the user it's the same thing--he puts on a
>>mask with a doohickey that takes the bad stuff out, and has to
>>replace something in the mask every so often ...
>
>I agree that this would count as a filter mask for purposes of the
>definintion of a tainted atmosphere. Can you tell me how long "every
>so often" is likely to be? I mean, theres a limit to how big a lump
>of this lithium hydroxide stuff you can comfortably lug around on a
>face mask. I realize that this would depend on the exact CO2
content,
>but could you come up with some ballpark figures (and perhaps even
an
>estimate of the cost of replacement "loads")?

	Not easily, as I've already given all the knowledge I possess on the
subject <G>. However, we have some submariners lurking who might be
able to help.

>Would these lithium hydroxide slugs be reusable? That is, how big
and
>complicated an apparatus would you need to remove the CO2 from them?

	I *believe* you can drive it off simply by heating the slugs ... but
I'm not certain.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:45:12 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet, a request...

At 08:23 am 9/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have had a request to add a feature to the spreadsheet, and I'm
wondering
>how much demand there would be for it (and if it would be
appropriate).
>
>Someone has asked for a page that produces Brilliant Lances/Battle
Riders
>stats, for TNE players. Since I have these games, I can convievably
do this.
>
>The questions are:
>
>a) Do a lot of you want this?
>b) Is it valid? I mean, my sheet is FF&S2, not FF&S. Thus I'm not
sure if
>the statistics generated are valid for TNE games. To "Those of you
who know
>stuff" how much did FF&S2 change from FF&S...where are the
discrepancies?

	1. Interior structure calculations changed, resulting in larger
ships requiring proportionally more structure.
	2. Material toughnesses are *exactly* (15/10.5) times the FF&S1
values.
	3. Hull factors (MVM, etc.) were corrected, and additional variety
in configurations added.
	4. Primitive rocket numbers were supposed to be corrected to match
realworld values--I *believe* but have not confirmed that there were
problems in this.
	5. You can now design arbitrary sized spacecraft turrets.
	6. There is now a real difference between turrets, bays, and spinal
mounts, in the amount of volume required to provide different levels
of pointing.
	7. Fusion rocket fuel consumption was corrected
	8. Asteroid hulls returned.
	9. Fusion power plants below TL-12 have a minimum size 10x that of
FF&S1
	10. Streamlining and airframe rules have been integrated for
spacecraft, grav vehicles, and aircraft.

	Those are the big ones that pop into my mind for the parts I did.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:26:51 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Starship Insurance Costs

At 10:07 am 9/2/98 -0400, you wrote:
>So here's my take on Starship Insurance;
>
>-------Begin Insurance Clause-------
>
>Starburst Mutual Insurance Co.  A Division of Ling Standard Product
LIC.
>
>Coverage: This policy will reimburse the policy holder for up to the
>replacement value of the vessel (depreciation at 1% per year,
assuming

	Errr ... I thought "replacement value" EXCLUDED depreciation--that's
how my homeowner's policy works. I'm not covered for the current
value of the property, I'm covered for what it costs to actually
replace it with the equivalent.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 19:27:06 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

alvin plummer wrote:
> 
> I am thinking of two incident's in American history: one, where
> General Lee discussed how much he disliked the concept of
> a Secret Service, and an other, when apparently the U.S. disbanded
> a secret service after World War One because "gentlemen
> do not read each other's mail."
> 
> Both could be considered a manifestation of honour, assuming honour
> is defined as "Personal integrity maintained without legal or other
> obligation". (Webster's, 1984).  Exactly how does the Imperium
> display integrity to its citizen's, an integrity which is not obligated
> legally?
> 
> Alvin Plummer

FYI, your second example is an issue of honorable dealings with other
nations, not with one's own citizenry.  The service in question was Army
signal intelligence:

"The [Army] all but retired from the field [of signal intelligence] in
1929, when President Herbert Hoover's consipicuously honorable new
secretary of war, Henry L. Stimson, reacted angrily to the Japanese
intercepts appearing daily on his desk.  'Gentlemen do not read one
another's mail,' he decreed and ordered it stopped...." (Dan van der
Vat, _The Pacific Campaign:  The U.S.-Japanese Naval War 1941-1945_,
[Touchstone, 1992], pp. 89-90)

I realize that my post does little or nothing to answer your post, but
it poses some interesting spin-offs:

1.  Does the various Imperial intelligence services still use SIGINT to
any useful degree?  If so, how do they collect?  (Possibly listening
ships out in the Oort Cloud area [300 AU or so] or beyond?)

2.  What other means of colecting intelligence are used by Imperial
intelligence services?

3.  We know that, at very least, the Imperial Army and Navy run
intelligence schools (Book 4, pg. 5; Book 5, pg. 9), and that the IISS
both debriefs detached duty scouts and maintains agent nets in
[unspecified] vital areas (Book 6, pg. 5).  What other canon/near-canon
intelligence services are there in the Imperium?

4.  Is there any kind of coordination between Imperial intelligence
services?  If so, what agency is in charge?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
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- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #800
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, September 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 801



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Travel Zones (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)
Re: Cheap energy in Traveller
W-metric ship for those who are interested.
[OT] Sudden horror (was Re: More comments on the Stillwell)
Re: Orangs and Gibbons
re: Boarding parties
re: Amber & Red Zones
Re: Imperial Intelligence
Re: Ordering HIWG CD
Re: Ordering HIWG CD
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]
Re: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services
Re: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet, a request...
Re: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet, a request...
Re: FF&S1 rockets
Re: Imperial Intelligence
Lot's of stuff, mainly Zoning and TAS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 02:44:18 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Travel Zones (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:27:43 -0400, "alvin plummer"
<aplummer@idirect.com> wrote:

>I'm aware that, in Offical Traveller, A - and R-Zoned worlds
>can be zoned for a variety of reason's, from hiding
>mistakes that the Imperial Navy made to protecting the
>local fauna to hostile envionment's.

>I'm wondering about the last one.  Given Travelelr's
>high tech level, should any system be zoned because of
>environmental influences?  After all, no world is automatically
>red zones because they have a corrosive atmosphere, but 
>high Law/Gov level's automatically earn Red or Amber zones.

Since the tech is futuretech, we can't be sure of what it can and
can't do; I'm willing to allow an environmental Amber on the
assumption that it's either of a nature or intensity that
readily-available tech can't handle easily (Red if not at all).
Perhaps it's an insidious atmosphere that can defeat _any_
protection (not just any protection) in _minutes_ instead of
hours (sounds Red to me).  Perhaps the planet is Trenco, with
those wonderful winds (Definite Amber, without the Thionite
plants; I can see it being Red if Thionites grow there).

>(An exception: I recall a starsystem in Challange whose star
>tend's to destroy jump drives after a few hour's.  This system is
>red zoned.  I have no objection about zoning because of THAT!)

>Can anyone give me info on "Blue Zones", found in Jim V's
>Galactic program?

IIRC, it's a TNE artifact.  Blues are Balkanized TNE worlds; the
GOV digit would then give the predominant form of government on
the world.


- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:17:38 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Cheap energy in Traveller

>  It might be useful to consider that we now know that a CT powerplant
>really produces "only" 250 MW per HG powerplant # per 100 D-Tons of
>vessel. Beyond that it's unclear whether Mr. Costikyan was being
>absurdist or merely careless. Given his other work on interstellar
>trade and his analysis of trade in Traveller in particular I have
>to wonder just what his purpose might have been in making such incomplete
>or inaccurate observations.

Look at the date; he was writing in 1982. The 1 power point = 250 MW conversion
was introduced in Striker. Prior  to that (1983, if I recall correctly)
the conversion between power points and MW was undefined...and given the
huge fuel consumption, Costikyan's statement - while somewhat 
absurdist. - wasn't too exagerated. (It shows that he wasn't a gearhead,
foc of course - a gearhead wouldn't look at those number and conclude
"therefore the trade frrules are brokeb" but "therefore the fuel consuption
rules are broken".)

(Excuse bad typing - bad termnal.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:19:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: W-metric ship for those who are interested.

My apologies to Douglas Glatz for co-opting his ship. I thought this
would be a perfect example to display my idea. My apologies if anything
is now wrong, I was adjusting on the fly. 
______________________________________ Finger of Might, Finger of Might
Class Light Assault Troopship (FF&S v2) 
Designed by Douglas Glatz and co-opted and adjusted by Mike Statistics:
Tons: 800 d-tons ( SL Sphere Hypersonic ) Volume: 13440m (20% added
for nacelles) Mass (L/C): 14413 tons /13530 tons 
Dimensions: 27.8m diameter
Size: 8
Crew: 12/25 (one crewperson for nacelle) 
Troops/Science: 90/0 
Cargo: 3 d-tons (0/10) (due to the fact that all three nacelles [10
d-tons each] have to be inside for it to maintain sphere configuration)
Cost: 873.855 MCr (one MCr per nacelle) Maintenance Points: 391 (10
points for nacelle maintenence) Tech Level: 12 
Performance: W-metric: 10 parsecs (80std/pc fuel /Ar:10 [40]) 
1.9/2 Maneuver (/Thruster:560MW /Ar:10 [40]) 0.9/1 GCA (gravitational
constant adjuster) (190MW /Ar:10 [40]) 
3347kph/3554kph Atmosphere (/Crus:2510kph/2666kph) 2 Power
(/Fus:350MW,1yr /Fis+:500MW,672hr /Ar:10 [40]) 150 Battery
(1.83/101.4/17.1 /Ar:10 [40]) 163.8 Fuel (/Scoop:2 /Purif:(2)48.2MW
/Ar:0 [20]) 0/37/2/75/0 Accomodations 
200 Life Sup. (/Ty:St,Gd /'St /Ar:0 [20]) 3 G-Comp ( /Ar:0 [20]) 1
Sandcasters ( /AV:40 /Cans:10 /Ar:0 [20]) 40 Damper Screen (1MW /Ar:0
[20]) 
40 Meson Screen (0.64MW /Ar:0 [20])
40 [200] Armor, 18 Structure 
Electronics: Controls: (/Ar: 10 [40]): Dynamic, High automation. 
3xFibComp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Terrain following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160).
Bridge (/Ar:20[60]). 
 Communications: (/Ar: 0 [20]): 1xRadio Rec. (1,000AU, 0.02MW).
1xRadio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW).  Sensors (/Ar: 0
[20]): 1xPEMS (13.5 [16mkm], 0.01MW). 1xAEMS (8, 0.03MW). 1xLIDAR (15.5
[5mkm], 6MW). 
 Survey/Science (/Ar :0 [20]): 1xDensiometer (7.5 [16km]). 1xNeutrino
(8 
[50km], 1MW). 
ECM (/Ar: 0 [20]): 1xRadio Jammer (500,000km, 0.33MW). Signatures:
Vis:-1, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 766MW, -1 at 85MW), Act:0.5, Neu:-1, Grav:1 
Weaponry: 2xLaser Turret (+0) 1/2-0-0-0 [2,100/15-7-4-2] (LR /Ar:40 
[200]) 2xMissile Turret Auto 1/4 ( /Mag:15 /MFD:500,000km /Ar:0 [20])
   w/16 Cmd DL 1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
2xParticle Accelerator (+4) 2/0-0-0-0 [1,100/0-0-0-0] (LR /Ar:0 [20])
Features: 2xAirlock
1xDecontamination Airlock 
1xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)
1xMachine Shop (10std ea.)
2xArmory (2.14std ea.)
1xSickbay (8std ea.)
1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:50)
1xShip's locker (0.4std ea.)
2xCap Lnchr (30 rdy cap ea.)
Small Craft: 2xMinHgr (8std, 1 hatches)
 2xG-Carriers(0std ea.)
2xDockRing (50std)
2x50 Std Modular Cutter(0std ea.)
5x4 Std Grav Tank (TL-12) Backups
Communications: 1xRadio (50,000km). 
Sensors: 1xPEMS (13 [5mkm]). 1xAEMS (7). 1xLIDAR (14.5 [500kkm]). 
Crew Details:3xMnvr. 5xEngr. 6xGunn. 3xScrn. 2xFlgt. 3xCmnd. 2xMed. 
- ----------------------------------------------- 
The ships stats don't change that much. Because I adjusted it on the fly
I wasn't sure about total power useage percentage (something I include)
so I didn't alter the fuel purification or the maneuver drive. 
 The drive is standard for a 800 ton craft. Any comments? 
Mike
Ideas have consequences 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:36:01 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: [OT] Sudden horror (was Re: More comments on the Stillwell)

>
>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:55:34
>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: More comments on the Stillwell
>
>>From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
>>Subject: Mercenary Cruiser Redesign
>>
>This ship relies on The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus to keep the jump
>bubble working. Rip it.
>
>In any case, TAKAFP is an abomination in the sight of God and Man.
>

I read these messages in digest, and so am in the habit of scanning through
the ones that don't seem to concern me...

... when I got the sudden, horrible impression that the TML was discussing
"The Artist Formerly Known as Prince" (TAFKAP).

Glad to see that the insanity remains confined to the familiar, as it were.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:43:55 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Orangs and Gibbons

>
>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:03:37 +0100
>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
>Subject: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
>
>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?
>

For what it's worth, my wife the primate geneticist gonna-be geek (her
words) says that gibbons are wickedly difficult to work with - they are
allergic to the gluten in wheat, and thus much more demanding to maintain
in captivity.

I know what the canon says, but I've recommended Bonobo chimps as a more
viable alternative.

Also, GURPS Uplift has rules for chimp and dolphin characters, but that
won't help with MT.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:49:07 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Boarding parties

Kelly St. Clair wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Depending on the design of the door, it will either take wrecking the
>sensors or wrecking the door to make it open (some doors are
>mechanically unable to open to a high pressure differential).

Well, technically, the doors in question weren't opened; they were blown,
with demo charges.  But point taken.

Note that your policy will also keep people from venting compartments to
space to put out shipboard fires... hope your fire-suppressant system
is up to snuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oh, you can vent - it just takes time measured in minutes (to stay
kosher with the CT space combat rules about depressurizing for
combat). A compartment going to near-vacuum (enough for fire
suppression or to prevent a compartment from explosively decompressing
in combat) in a matter of minutes will be no threat to a vac-suited
boarding party, and will give unsuited people a chance to grab suits.
Explosive decompression is what can bounce people about, even be
a danger to people in suits.

Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:11:58 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Amber & Red Zones

alvon plummer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm aware that, in Offical Traveller, A - and R-Zoned worlds
can be zoned for a variety of reason's, from hiding
mistakes that the Imperial Navy made to protecting the
local fauna to hostile envionment's.

I'm wondering about the last one.  Given Travelelr's
high tech level, should any system be zoned because of
environmental influences?  After all, no world is automatically
red zones because they have a corrosive atmosphere, but 
high Law/Gov level's automatically earn Red or Amber zones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My take on Amber Zones like this was local flora, fauna or conditions
that were unusually or deceptively dangerous. Carnivores that stunned
you through your suit at range with sonics then pack-attacked you.
Thin atmosphere coupled with very high meteoric activity. A standard,
tainted atmosphere, traces of the taints can cause psychotic 
hallucinations and paranoia when the traces make it through
the kind of decontamination available on most spacecraft.

Amber zones are travel advisories. Red zones indicate travel is
forbidden. Amber means travel at your own risk, red means
Navy or Scout ships will intern you or blast you out of space if
you insist on travelling there.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:56:02
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]
>
>1.  Does the various Imperial intelligence services still use SIGINT to
>any useful degree?  If so, how do they collect?  (Possibly listening
>ships out in the Oort Cloud area [300 AU or so] or beyond?)

Once you stop using radio, sigint is less useful, on the grounds the other
side isnt actually broadcasting.

>
>2.  What other means of colecting intelligence are used by Imperial
>intelligence services?

The good old traditional ones, I think - human factors and observation.

>
>3.  We know that, at very least, the Imperial Army and Navy run
>intelligence schools (Book 4, pg. 5; Book 5, pg. 9), and that the IISS
>both debriefs detached duty scouts and maintains agent nets in
>[unspecified] vital areas (Book 6, pg. 5).  What other canon/near-canon
>intelligence services are there in the Imperium?

Lots. I think there are 2 Intel branches in the IN, plus about 8 discrete
branches of the IISS have intelligence type roles (if I remember correctly,
only 5 of them report via Operational Control, but I cant find Book 6 right
now). Then we have quasi-intelligence branches such as Imperiallines, and
the traditionally close relationship between the megacorps (and their
covert bureaus) and the Imperial government.

I think Ministry of Justice would also have some sort of role.

Then we have people like Bubbles, who went to school with Cha-Cha, and who
tends to know all sorts of people.

>
>4.  Is there any kind of coordination between Imperial intelligence
>services?  If so, what agency is in charge?

I think the phrases we are looking for is 'like Kilkenny cats' and 'This
issue clearly comes under our jurisdiction'.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:05:03 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ordering HIWG CD

 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:05:31 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ordering HIWG CD

What GDW CD ROM?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:08:10 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

Would Project Longbow be considered SIGINT?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:11:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Re: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???

Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com> asks:

>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?

I wasn't aware that Orangs and Gibbons _played_ MT.

As everyone knows, Orangs prefer TNE, while Gibbons are still waiting for T5.

Best,

 + GMG +

(Guess that makes me a Gibbon. I'd rather be a Bonobo...;)

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
 `The idea of using rocks as kinetic weapons is not a new one.'
                    -- John Maddox Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:31:49 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
> > I am thinking of two incident's in American history: one, where
> > General Lee discussed how much he disliked the concept of
> > a Secret Service, and an other, when apparently the U.S. disbanded
> > a secret service after World War One because "gentlemen
> > do not read each other's mail."
> > 
> > Both could be considered a manifestation of honour, assuming honour
> > is defined as "Personal integrity maintained without legal or other
> > obligation". (Webster's, 1984).  Exactly how does the Imperium
> > display integrity to its citizen's, an integrity which is not obligated
> > legally?
> > 
> > Alvin Plummer
> 
> 1.  Does the various Imperial intelligence services still use SIGINT to
> any useful degree?  If so, how do they collect?  (Possibly listening
> ships out in the Oort Cloud area [300 AU or so] or beyond?)

I would have to say, yes...  SIGINT is a great source for intel...  Esp.
about what a foe will do...  Where his ships are...  Etc...

> 2.  What other means of colecting intelligence are used by Imperial
> intelligence services?

HUMINT would I think be a real biggie...  I mean in a nation the size of
the Sword's Worlds I think you could even slip in serveral agents in & use
free traders as the communications vector...

Free Traders are everywhere & as such everyone knows them...

> 3.  We know that, at very least, the Imperial Army and Navy run
> intelligence schools (Book 4, pg. 5; Book 5, pg. 9), and that the IISS
> both debriefs detached duty scouts and maintains agent nets in
> [unspecified] vital areas (Book 6, pg. 5).  What other canon/near-canon
> intelligence services are there in the Imperium?

Dragon Mag had an Intelligence Agent Career done a few years ago for
CT/MT...  They talked about Imperial Intel, Sector Intel, Sub-Sector Intel,
Planet Intel, Private, & Mega-Corp Intel Agencies...  I think I may have it
around here somewhere...

> 4.  Is there any kind of coordination between Imperial intelligence
> services?  If so, what agency is in charge?

Yes, I would have to say that Navy, Marine, Scout, Sector, Sub-Sector,
Planetary, & Mega-Corp Intel Agencies all would work together, but as to
who is in charge, well I think you would have to go via Sr. Service...

First, Navy, second, Marines, third, Scouts, fourth, Sector, fith,
Sub-Sector, & sixth, Planetary, & last Mega-Corp...

> |    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
> ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 01:40:40 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
...
>1.  Does the various Imperial intelligence services still use SIGINT to
>any useful degree?  If so, how do they collect?  (Possibly listening
>ships out in the Oort Cloud area [300 AU or so] or beyond?)

  Drop off passive sensor units and then infiltrate to collect data every
once in a while - with accurate deep-space jumping neighbouring interstellar
states border regions can be lousy with listening posts (one shudders to 
think what the Islands sub-sectors piranha pool is like).

>2.  What other means of colecting intelligence are used by Imperial
>intelligence services?

  Agents/informers work both inside and out; intelligence ships also, but
most risky where most useful - in the other states territory. Disguising
yourself as a trader might help, but you might end up MIA regardless,
peacetime or no.

  The most cost-efficient (and possibly most effective for some purposes)
internal security aid would be collating flight plans and starport records.
Any ship that retroactively can be determined to have done something that
it claims it didn't, or that it supposedly _can't_ do, is desperately asking
to be listed as "search or seize when encountered", cc'd to the relevant
authorities.

  This would tend to the conclusion that the most valuable form of "enemy"
data is their own ship traffic data stream, and an agent or tap into that
would be a most valuable asset for getting a genuine picture of the other
sides economic structure - a lot like real-life recon photos of rail-nets.

...
 (point 3 on canon 3I intel services skipped due to incomplete collection)
  Actually, wouldn't ImperialLines in its' various forms count?

>4.  Is there any kind of coordination between Imperial intelligence
>services?  If so, what agency is in charge?

  Presumably, although there may be an interrupt between internal political
info and everything else - it might be prudent _not_ to have INI involved
in the former. It might not be improbable for the central clearing house to
be in the Imperial Household staff - similar things have happened.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:07:31 +0800 (WST)
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet, a request...

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Andy Akins wrote:

> I have had a request to add a feature to the spreadsheet, and I'm wondering
> how much demand there would be for it (and if it would be appropriate).
> 
> Someone has asked for a page that produces Brilliant Lances/Battle Riders
> stats, for TNE players. Since I have these games, I can convievably do this.
> 
I asked, err, umm Can I vote Too :)

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:12:15 +0800 (WST)
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: My FF&S2 Spreadsheet, a request...

Snip
> It's possible that the person requesting this feature simply wants to
> have stats for a playable space combat game.  After all, the combat
> rules in the basic T4 rulebook are not well-suited to actions involving
> non-QSDS ships.
Snip
Thanks, and I have those rules already but I much prefer BL
and BR, a FF&S1
version would be great, but only if it is radically different from FF&S2,
I do not have the latter so I do not know how different it is 
cheers
Colin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:18:37 +0800 (WST)
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: FF&S1 rockets

> The early rocket design sequence in FFS1 is most definitely broken.  For 
> some fixes and other good info, go to Joe Hecks site
> 
> http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller
> 
> Lots of good stuff in his archives and house rules
> 
> Jim
> 
Cheers 
Colin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:52:20 +0800 (WST)
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence

There is also IRIS, they have a role to play too I suppose.
Colin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:54:20 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Lot's of stuff, mainly Zoning and TAS

From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
"Canon have killed many people down through the centuries."

Especially those six-pounders...

(I just HAD to say that...)

*********************************

>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: Alternity / Just when I thought...
>>From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
>>Subject: Re: Just when I thought...
...
>>I'm not sure it will go anywhere. I'm not sure any new game will go
>>anywhere. (The ST book you describe sounds like a coffee table
collectable,
>>not a RPG.) But there are ideas I would steal for traveller. Not the
>>setting, though. The setting sucks.
>  I dropped by their mailing list, and when some lost soul inquired about
>other possible settings to use I helpfully volunteered Traveller :>

"The Empire continues to expand, Lord Vader."
"Excellent, Commander."

*********************************

>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 18:39:08 +1000
>From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
>Subject: Cheap Energy In Traveller

<snip>

>Examples of fiction set in energy rich universes include John Varley's
>'Ophiuchi Hotline' and the Culture novels of Iain Banks : 'Consider
>Phlebas', 'The Player of Games', 'Use of Weapons', and 'Excession'.

Ooooh Yeah, The Big Boy's.

<snip>

>Fusion produces a lot of energy ; all of the good gear that becomes
>available at the same time uses it up.

Much like money: you never seem to have enough power to
do what you *really* want to do....

***************************

>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:55:34
>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: More comments on the Stillwell

<heaping big snip>

>This ship relies on The Abomination Known As Fusion Plus to keep the jump
>bubble working. Rip it.

Does GURPS have an equivelant?  Is it used in GURPS: Traveller?

****************************


Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 08:52:43 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

> High radiation levels, extremely nasty local wildlife.. any yhting that
> presents a real threat to anyone who landed there.

Hmm.... OK, I can see your point.  I just got to remember that
RedZ worlds need to be REALLY mean, while AmberZ
system's just need to be mean or weird.  One of my implicit
assumptions was that TL 15 science would have completely
transended the natural world, on the planetary scale.

What I really need is naturally occuring threat's, worthy of
being Red or Amber Zoned.  It's been too long since I have
read some interesting Sci-fi, so excuse my lapse's of
imagination:

Psionic animals (stolen from Douglas Berry, who sole it from... ?)
Jump-hating star's (from Challenger)
Hostile, sophisticated airborne diseases (Douglas Berry again)
Naturally occuring EMP pulses (or other influences that
  ruin's electronic's)
Continuous, severe earthquake activity (Amber zone)
Regular, heavy meteor shower's
Solar Flame activity (Better lift off NOW!)
Massive tidal activity (Amber zone)
Worldwide, unpredicable fires
Enormous, very active volcanoes (including the super-hot gases
   those volcanoes may give off)
Endless, incredible electrical storm's (Maybe Amber zone, maybe not)
Hollowed-out crust: major section's of the ground can collapse at any time
  (Amber Zone)
Very hostile, intelligent biospheres - especially if they can
   quickly create new animal's and diseases to defeat countermeasures
   (This isn't really natural: more like an artifact of preHuman
intelligence)
The air is full of naturally-occuring monofilimant wire ("Red Zone" taken
   very literally)
There's Something in the Crust that's big, fast, and like's eating buildings
   (Amber Zone, at best - thank's to densitometer's and meson gun's)
Non-corporal lifeforms (at *least* Amber - who want's to live on a world
   of ghosts?)
Mental interference (for example, Human's MUST dream, or go mad: but if the
  electrical field won't allow sleep or dreams...)
Jinxed worlds - worlds that, for unexplained reason's, seem to harm
  all those who set foot on it.  (ie: within a ten-year period, EVERYONE
  who land's on Sarina eventually burst's into flames.  No one know's
  why, but until then the Red Zone stay's.  If the system caused sterility
  instead, it might be Amber Zoned...)

>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:16:23 -0700
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

>Red and Amber zoning, remember, is designated by the Travellers Aid
Society,
>not the Imperium. TAS Red zones Imperial naval quarantines, so those are
>automatically on the list, but the others are done by the TAS based on
their
>danger to travellers. Officially it's for TAS members only, but as the TAS
>became a well known and respected organization, their designations took on
an
>air of official status.

"Civil society in action!"
I'd like to see a lot more of this kind of stuff in the Imperium: civil
organizations that have a major impact on how people actually
live and operate.

>However, much like Mobil's restaurant guide, they're still designated by a
>private organization, so they can set the criteria any way they want. So
lots
>of places that are just the pits to visit, get designated Amber or Red. Or
>anyplace that's pissed off the TAS...heh heh heh...

True... who exactly is TAS's constituency?  Free trader's,  manufactoring
corporations, the tourist industry, the MegaCorporations?  Taking their name
literally, I'd assume that they work for Traveller's, that group of
interstellar
vagabond's that provides the grease that keep's the Imperium humming.
The MegaCorp's and the other major interest's have their own intelligence-
gathering services (mainly overt and public, btw).

>Given that TAS runs the most widely known news service as well, the actual
>power that TAS exerts over the Imperium is considerable.

Mainly a form of "soft power", but power nevertheless.

>BUT, given that most of the Old Boy/Girl/Vargr/Etc nobles that _run_ the
>Imperium, are also probably TAS members, it's a much more intertwined
thing.

Incidentally, my guess is, of any 10 high nobles (subsector Duke +)

1 - other non-human race
1 - Vargr
2 - Vilani
3 - Solomani
3 - Mixed Vilani/Solomani

Vargr nobles are concentrated in the Coreward Imperium
(Spinward Marches - Antares, close to the Vargr Extent's/
Julian Protectorate.).  Vilani nobles are common,
but noticably fewer in the region's Behind the Claw (which were
never part of the First Imperium).

Mixed Vilani/Solomani are common, but especially numerous
in the rimward Imperium, close to the Solomani sphere.
Solomani nobles exist throughout the Imperium: they are
not very numerous compared to the general popualtion,
but are over-represented in the noble ranks.

>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 19:27:06 -0500
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

Yep, I'd like a published clarification on both honour ( a major thread
in Imperial ideology, after all!) and the Imperial secret services - and
how honour affect's the secret service's.

If I remember Survival Margin correctly, it mentioned that there were a
mess of secret servcies within the Imperium, often at loggerhead's.

We really need some oversight, here.

Alvin Plummer
"Kitchen Technician?"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #801
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, September 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 802



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]
Pocket Empires:more trouble (longish)
Spinward Marches
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services
Re: Spinward Marches
Re: Spinward Marches 
Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?
Re: Spinward Marches
Re: Spinward Marches
Re: Spinward Marches 
Re: A comment on deck orientation
TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)
Re: 1) Apology
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]
Re: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)
Deck orientation of existing constructs
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourablebehaviour...]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 08:06:32 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

At 07:27 PM 9/5/98 -0500, you wrote:

>3.  We know that, at very least, the Imperial Army and Navy run
>intelligence schools (Book 4, pg. 5; Book 5, pg. 9), and that the IISS
>both debriefs detached duty scouts and maintains agent nets in
>[unspecified] vital areas (Book 6, pg. 5).  What other canon/near-canon
>intelligence services are there in the Imperium?
>
>4.  Is there any kind of coordination between Imperial intelligence
>services?  If so, what agency is in charge?

IMTU, the Navy is the primary coordinator of intelligence activities.  The
IISS provides most of the HUMINT personnel and SIGINT platforms.  Army
Intel is more focussed, ususally on a threat-by-threat basis.. Lunion Army
cares about SWC activities, and nothing else.


- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:51:01 +0800 (WST)
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Pocket Empires:more trouble (longish)

I ahve a few Pocket Empire problenms:

A) When do you resolve planetary devolpment tasks?
1-When The RUs are paid
2-when the nominal time is up
3- during the immediate resolution phase (10)

The last seems most likely since otherwise oustanding success will come to
late in time (Oh we finished doing that 30 yrs ago) or Could deliver an
overly large bonus (Oh no how do i spend 1200 RU in a single turn, My GWP
is only 250!)  However it means that failures are immediete, even if I
have not spent the money.  

B) If I fail a planetary development meta-task, does it cost any RU?, Do I
lose what I would have spent?  Spectacular dfailure on Infrastructure
seems to imply not. 

C) How does popularity work?  It says (Part 6 p. 55) the popularity action
bonus "is determined by the sauccess (or failure) of any world-scale
meat-tasks undertaken in previous turns."  What meta tasks?  The only ones
I can think of are planetary development, and these have no popularity
effects except inasmuch as they modify BASE poularity.
Does leadership carry over with action bonus? I think not but...

D) When a new world is  added (whether willingly or not )to the empire
what
happens to the
poularity? (p.55) states that its popularity is "inverted" and becomes the
new values?  Is this a change in base popularity (surely not) or more
likely an Action Bonus?  (&if so then it may be more than 15)  If the
latter then it continues on until eroded
by +ve points. (And I can find no way of earning them)
 
E) Part 3 p. 29 states that "popularity = Base + Action bonus" leadersip
is
not mentioned? Action bonus is defined in terms of presige modifers
(glossary p. 98); are there suposed to be two different kinds of action
bonus (which I think is the case?)

F) Part 7 page 66 states that when a world is forcibly added to the empire
;
you shpuld set the popularity to "15 less the current popularity"  does
this refer to  base popularity or total popularity?  is it vsupposed to be
an
action bonus?  How does the restriction  on its application (only
forcibly acquired worlds) square with 'D' above?

G) There seem to be some tables missing.

H) Part 7 p. 73 suggests that unilateral metatasks listed in this chapeter
impact upon "World realtionships, Relationships and popularity";
popularity seems to refer only to PE prrestige, and not popularity in
general - is this the case?  What is the difference between "world
realationships" and "relationships" -  I thought that there were only
relationships between PEs?  Given the effects of Bi-lateral meta-tasks(p.
76), it seems that only the meta-tasks previous to the section "impact on
World..." p. 73 and only in Part 7 are so affected by that section - is
this true?

I am utterely mystified by some of this.  My copy is listed as being
edition 4.1.  If anyone can help I would be grateful.

Colin
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:54:31 +0800 (WST)
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Spinward Marches

Was there ever a game called Spinward Marches released?  I do not refer to
the supplement, but either a boxed set or perfect bound volume about A$ in
size?
Colin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 10:34:29 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services

>
>Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 01:40:40 -0700
>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services
>
>>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>...
>>1.  Does the various Imperial intelligence services still use SIGINT to
>>any useful degree?  If so, how do they collect?  (Possibly listening
>>ships out in the Oort Cloud area [300 AU or so] or beyond?)
>
>  Drop off passive sensor units and then infiltrate to collect data every
>once in a while - with accurate deep-space jumping neighbouring interstellar
>states border regions can be lousy with listening posts (one shudders to 
>think what the Islands sub-sectors piranha pool is like).
>

You know, I was working up the Islands Clusters for GT.  Using the GURPS
Space rules for installations (bases, universities, alien enclaves, etc.),
the main planets in the Clusters can have an effectively limitless number
of espionage facilities on them - roll 3d6 less than TL+PR (=*19* for the
major planets) for the first installation, keep rolling additional
installations until you fail... [GURPS Space, p. 123]  Of course, some of
those "espionage facilities" may consist of only one agent.

I interpret this to mean that spy-tech is big business in the Clusters.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:35:01 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches

It's called the Spinward Marches Campaign.  It is a supplement for Traveller
(Classic) that has the Spinward Marches supplement, Citizens of the Imperium
in it.  A detailed history of the 5th Frontier War as well as some military
units and corporations in the Spinward Marches.  Lots of great background
data and adventure ideas.  Cool pictures of Imperial Battle Dress are the
coolest thing, to me!

It reminds me of an Alien Module for the Spinward Marches.  It's not, but it
is similar, in my opinion only.

Dan




- -----Original Message-----
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 11:58 AM
Subject: Spinward Marches


>Was there ever a game called Spinward Marches released?  I do not refer to
>the supplement, but either a boxed set or perfect bound volume about A$ in
>size?
>Colin
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:27:28 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches 

> It's called the Spinward Marches Campaign.  It is a supplement for Traveller
> (Classic) that has the Spinward Marches supplement, Citizens of the Imperium
> in it.  A detailed history of the 5th Frontier War as well as some military
> units and corporations in the Spinward Marches.  Lots of great background
> data and adventure ideas.  Cool pictures of Imperial Battle Dress are the
> coolest thing, to me!

When was this published?  Are you sure you're not talking about the Traveller 
Adventure?

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 08:32:50 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Red and Amber zoning, remember, is designated by the Travellers Aid Society,
> not the Imperium.       [snip]
> Officially it's for TAS members only, but as the TAS
> became a well known and respected organization, their designations took on an
> air of official status.
> 
> However, much like Mobil's restaurant guide, they're still designated by a
> private organization, so they can set the criteria any way they want. So lots
> of places that are just the pits to visit, get designated Amber or Red. Or
> anyplace that's pissed off the TAS...heh heh heh...
> 
> Given that TAS runs the most widely known news service as well, the actual
> power that TAS exerts over the Imperium is considerable.
> 
> BUT, given that most of the Old Boy/Girl/Vargr/Etc nobles that _run_ the
> Imperium, are also probably TAS members, it's a much more intertwined thing.

     Now this I can agree with. At the cost of TAS membership, the
probability of anyone less than nobility acquiring it by outright
purchase would be remote to non-existent. Given this to be true, the
majority of members are nobility, and therefore the information would be
biased to that group OR whoever paid sufficient to the piper. Only those
persons (speculative merchants, scout surveyors) who survived an
especially violent world and reported same may have had their report
picked up by TAS. (ala Alien / Aliens)
     But whoever believes the lowly? I'm sure that some mercenary would
want to check it out. "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me." sort
of scenario.
     The only operation that may adhere to those ratings would be the
passenger only merchant. If such a world was *in the way* without a way
around it, his jump route would terminate just before it.
     TAS ratings are (should be) on an enter at your own risk basis.	

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:33:13 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches

I'm sorry but the only things I can think of is: the Spinwards Marches LBB,
the Fifth Frontier War boxed wargame, the Spinwards Marches Campaign (magazine
sized CT module), the Traveller Adventure (Aramis Subsector campaign book).

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 12:22:58 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches

At 02:33 PM 9/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I'm sorry but the only things I can think of is: the Spinwards Marches LBB,
>the Fifth Frontier War boxed wargame, the Spinwards Marches Campaign
(magazine
>sized CT module), the Traveller Adventure (Aramis Subsector campaign book).

Regency Sourcebook, for TNE.

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:11:49 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches 

At 01:27 PM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> It's called the Spinward Marches Campaign.  It is a supplement for
Traveller
>> (Classic) that has the Spinward Marches supplement, Citizens of the
Imperium
>> in it.  A detailed history of the 5th Frontier War as well as some military
>> units and corporations in the Spinward Marches.  Lots of great background
>> data and adventure ideas.  Cool pictures of Imperial Battle Dress are the
>> coolest thing, to me!
>
>When was this published?  Are you sure you're not talking about the
Traveller 
>Adventure?

Nope - he's not talking about the Traveller Adventure. The Spinward Marches
Campaign was published by GDW in 1985 and runs to 49 pages.

L8r,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:56:53 -0600
From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
Subject: Re: A comment on deck orientation

>     I think the discussion, while interesting, is moot. None of the
>known sci-fi authors (movie or otherwise) has designed prep <snip>

Off the top of my head:
Movies:
A Trip to the Moon
Destination Moon
The Red Planet
2001 (the Earth-Moon shuttle)
Solar Oyssey

Authors:
Arthur C. Clarke
Issac Asimov
John Varley
Jerry Pournell
Poul Anderson
Larry Niven
Robert A. Heinlein
Fritz Leiber
Donald Moffitt
Kim Stanley Robinson
David Feintuch
David Brin
C. S. Lewis

Visonaries:
Buckminster Fuller
Chelsea Bonisteel (sp?)

Are you using "moot" in its adjectival meaning of "debatable, undecided" or
its other adjectival meaning of "having no practical significance"?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 98 16:55:37 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)

On 09/06/98 at 08:32 AM,  Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> said:

> BUT, given that most of the Old Boy/Girl/Vargr/Etc nobles that _run_
>the > Imperium, are also probably TAS members, it's a much more
>intertwined thing.

>     Now this I can agree with. At the cost of TAS membership, the
>probability of anyone less than nobility acquiring it by outright
>purchase would be remote to non-existent. Given this to be true, the
>majority of members are nobility, and therefore the information would
>be biased to that group OR whoever paid sufficient to the piper. Only
>those persons (speculative merchants, scout surveyors) who survived
>an especially violent world and reported same may have had their
>report picked up by TAS. (ala Alien / Aliens)

IMTU, TAS is a Mega-Organization.  It is a huge non-profit
corporation that dwarfs even the largest Mega-Corp in size, revenue
and influence.  The only other organizations that approach it in
size are a couple of religious ones:  the Catholic Church and the
Church of the Universal (The Listers).  IMTU, TNS is a TAS
subsidiary...and maybe qualifies as an intellegence agency.  It has
it's own small exploration division, and (maybe) ships and repair
facilties of its own as well.  It owns, or has interests in, banks
and investment houses all over space, and if a Traveller needs her
credits changed for local currency TAS is there to help.

In many ways TAS is almost a "shadow government" in the Imperium,
and IMTU (where there isn't an Imperium) it crosses government lines
to cover most of "known space."  Much of the business involving
trade (among other things) that gets done, gets done at a TAS
facility...either in a conference room or across a table in the
ubiquitous TAS Lounge.  

Because of it's close association with star travel, you can usually
find the TAS facilities somewhere in the Starport area.  Usually
near the local Ship Registry Office, Port Captain's Office and
Spacer's Guild Hall.

One quick way to get designated a Red Zone is for the local
government to give TAS a difficult time.  You won't find TAS
facilities in a Red Zone system, and when TAS pulls out so does most
of the trade and traders.  Amber Zones *might* have limited TAS
facilities, especially if they are for "important" system, but for
whatever reason, TAS has determined that Travellers and Merchants
should be careful there.

As to whether there's something *more* to TAS than providing Aid for
Travellers is left to the imagination of the GM and players.

As you can see, TAS, as presented in the published material, always
seemed too limited to me.  ;-> IMTU TAS has a number of membership
levels.

The Individual Membership is the normal one, similar to the one in
the books.  It costs a million, or being voted in by a TAS Subsector
Board and approved by a TAS Sector Board.  The benefits are periodic
high passages and free access to all TAS facilities (including some
private ones) and data...don't forget the data!  A full member could
*live* in a TAS hotel, but those rich enough to be Individual
Members usually want something *more* than middle class, and it's
fairly middle class living at TAS.

Corporations can (and most often do) buy Corporate Memberships with
TAS.  This doesn't give them the passages, but it does allow
corporate employees access to TAS facilities and its datafiles on a
low charge back basis.

Independent merchants, wealthy travellers and the lower nobility
often buy Associate Memberships giving them access to *some* TAS
facilities and data for specified periods of time.  [ For fees
inquire at your local TAS facility.  ;-> ] 

Members may also bring "guests" into TAS facilities.  These guests
are there on a "pay as you go" basis.

In a game, *somebody* usually has either a full or associate
membership, allowing the others in the party to get access to the
facilities.  I tend to use TAS as the common location that players
can depend on being there...even on an unfamiliar planet saying
"Meet me in the TAS lounge." or "Take me to TAS." usually works.
Beyond "known space", where TAS hasn't penetrated yet, travellers
are on their own.

Marc has said something like, "all adventures start in a Starport",
I modify that to, "most adventures start at TAS."

BTW, one career that I've never seen discussed is that of TAS
employee.  IMTU, there's more to it than being an innkeeper.  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:56:32 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: 1) Apology

At 17:49 4/09/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:

>BTW, is the list be interested in a synopsis of what has happened in
>my Akus Moby PBEM up to this point?

Yes, I'm not involoved in any Scifi games right now, and reading about
someone elses is about as close as I can get to one right now.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 10:23:30 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourable behaviour...]

At 22:31 5/09/98 -0700, Legate Legion wrote:

>HUMINT would I think be a real biggie...  I mean in a nation the size of
>the Sword's Worlds I think you could even slip in serveral agents in & use
>free traders as the communications vector...

For the Sword Worlds they'd pretty much have to be natives. IIRC the Sword
Wrolds all have cultures that are _very_ slightly different one from the
other, to the point that only Sword Worlders can tell the difference. I
would be easy for an agent or other imposter to trip up in such an
environment.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:54:24 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 

> IMTU, TAS is a Mega-Organization.  It is a huge non-profit
> corporation that dwarfs even the largest Mega-Corp in size, revenue
> and influence.  The only other organizations that approach it in
> size are a couple of religious ones:  the Catholic Church and the
> Church of the Universal (The Listers).  IMTU, TNS is a TAS
> subsidiary...and maybe qualifies as an intellegence agency.  It has
> it's own small exploration division, and (maybe) ships and repair
> facilties of its own as well.  It owns, or has interests in, banks
> and investment houses all over space, and if a Traveller needs her
> credits changed for local currency TAS is there to help.
> 
> In many ways TAS is almost a "shadow government" in the Imperium,
> and IMTU (where there isn't an Imperium) it crosses government lines
> to cover most of "known space."  Much of the business involving
> trade (among other things) that gets done, gets done at a TAS
> facility...either in a conference room or across a table in the
> ubiquitous TAS Lounge.

That's great, and so it is (or will be) IMTU, as it should be, even in 
the TNE where it probably lost most of its vast fortunes to the results
of Virus.

> Because of it's close association with star travel, you can usually
> find the TAS facilities somewhere in the Starport area.  Usually
> near the local Ship Registry Office, Port Captain's Office and
> Spacer's Guild Hall.

Again we are in agreement in that is as it should be.

> One quick way to get designated a Red Zone is for the local
> government to give TAS a difficult time.  You won't find TAS
> facilities in a Red Zone system, and when TAS pulls out so does most
> of the trade and traders.

Now we are at loggerheads. If the TAS organization is a just and good
thing then it should be fair and unbiased in it's assessment of the non
member world. Otherwise in their limited view they are chastising every
free trader and legitimate trade association with their biased view.
This sounds like the spoiled kid routine. "No we don't want to play with
your rules in my backyard." "OK, I'll take my bat and ball, go home and
tell everyone your no fun to play with."

> Amber Zones *might* have limited TAS 
> facilities, especially if they are for "important" system, but for
> whatever reason, TAS has determined that Travellers and Merchants
> should be careful there.

Ditto above.

If you meant that, in both cases, there was a real danger that the
traveller should be aware of (and I don't mean that government big mucky
muck has paid enough to purchase this no no designation) then I can see
a real value in the organization. That is the way I view it as operating
IMTU, i.e. not subject to the wims of those with   m o n e y . I see the
information as having been obtained by direct examination and probably
at some cost to someone. Is that not so IYTU.

> As to whether there's something *more* to TAS than providing Aid for
> Travellers is left to the imagination of the GM and players.
> 
> As you can see, TAS, as presented in the published material, always
> seemed too limited to me.  ;-> IMTU TAS has a number of membership
> levels.
> 
> The Individual Membership is the normal one, similar to the one in
> the books.  It costs a million,

and thus my remark about cost. The average PC character should not be
able to 'afford' to buy a TAS membership and would only receive same as
a gift or employer supplied benefit while she/he stays employed.

> or being voted in by a TAS Subsector
> Board and approved by a TAS Sector Board.

nice touch. I like it. Makes it even more restrictive to get in.

[sip the benefits]
 
> Corporations can (and most often do) buy Corporate Memberships with
> TAS.  This doesn't give them the passages, but it does allow
> corporate employees access to TAS facilities and its datafiles on a
> low charge back basis.

but this shouldn't give them the right nor TAS the obligation to falsify
the danger to travel there unless it is in fact true. (It just may be if
the de-facto Megagcorp has fighting equipment in orbit to stop intrusion
by others.)

> Independent merchants, wealthy travellers and the lower nobility
> often buy Associate Memberships giving them access to *some* TAS
> facilities and data for specified periods of time.  [ For fees
> inquire at your local TAS facility.  ;-> ]

Another nice touch that has merit.
 
> Members may also bring "guests" into TAS facilities.  These guests
> are there on a "pay as you go" basis.

I didn't know that! I thought your membership paid for me when I'm your
guest.

> In a game, *somebody* usually has either a full or associate
> membership, allowing the others in the party to get access to the
> facilities.  I tend to use TAS as the common location that players
> can depend on being there...even on an unfamiliar planet saying
> "Meet me in the TAS lounge." or "Take me to TAS." usually works.

Yeppers. No disagreement there.

> Beyond "known space", where TAS hasn't penetrated yet, travellers
> are on their own.

Well, I have found few locations outside the Imperium that don't have
some sort of TAS listing. Whether in fact it is TAS now, it will be when
they get there cause they'll probably be able to buy them out.

> Marc has said something like, "all adventures start in a Starport",
> I modify that to, "most adventures start at TAS."

Both are usually in the same place, as I recall.
 
> BTW, one career that I've never seen discussed is that of TAS
> employee.  IMTU, there's more to it than being an innkeeper.  ;->

Ahh! So true, so true!

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:10:58 -0600
From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
Subject: Deck orientation of existing constructs

First a word about my own position in the deck orientation debate. I prefer
decks perpendicular to the main thrust; i think it looks 'cool' and
'spacey'. Other people prefer decks parallel to the main thrust; they think
it looks 'cool' and 'spacey'. There are already at least six impossible
things in Traveller, so do whatever you think is cool. However, i have been
bothered by some specific statements presented in this thread. Hence, my
own humble, scratch calculations of the thrusts experienced by existing
constructs which have been used as models.

Buildings:
Buildings resist gravity. Their 'decks' are perpendicular to this thrust.

Ships (and submarines):
Ships are pulled down by gravity and supported by the bouancy of water. If
a ship is not supported evenly, the hull acts as a beam when suspended
between two wave crests or as two cantilevers when supported by a single
wave crest. Everything inside a ship (or submarine) experiences gravity.
Marine vessels also experience the thrust of their engines. Gravity creates
and acceleration of 9.8m/s^2 which is the equivalent of going from zero to
100km/hr in under 2.5 seconds. Clearly gravity is the dominant thrust for
marine vessels and their decks are perpendicular to it. When decks are not
perpendicular (as in rolling and pitching) ships can run into severe
difficulty, as can aircraft.

Aircraft:
Aircraft experience gravity which is counteracted by a lifting force
generated by airfoils, rotors, jets or bouyant chambers. They also
experience a driving thrust from their engines which for most of the time
produces no acceleration (constant velocity). Excluding high performance
jets (which don't have decks anyway), gravity is the primary thrust
experienced by cargo, passengers and crew. Decks are perpendicular to
gravity.

Space Shuttle:
On the launch pad the decks are parallel to gravity and engine thrust. The
crew takes lift-off on their backs in couches. In orbit the vehicle
experience micro-gravity and orientation is irrelevant. On landing
(gliding) the decks are perpendicular to gravity. By Traveller standards
the SSV is an extremely primitive vehicle and probably not the best
standard for design details ;^)

Except the space shuttle, every existing constuct which has been presented
as a model for  Traveller space ships has 'decks' perpendicular to the
dominant thrust, which in all cases is the Earth's gravity.

You may forget about gravity, but it never forgets about you.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:31:52 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourablebehaviour...]

> >HUMINT would I think be a real biggie...  I mean in a nation the size of
> >the Sword's Worlds I think you could even slip in serveral agents in &
use
> >free traders as the communications vector...
> 
> For the Sword Worlds they'd pretty much have to be natives. IIRC the
Sword
> Wrolds all have cultures that are _very_ slightly different one from the
> other, to the point that only Sword Worlders can tell the difference. I
> would be easy for an agent or other imposter to trip up in such an
> environment.

Think about it like this, why send in an agent when you can have the agent
come to you...  Many agents are from the are you want to know about... 
They join up in your service for one reason or another...  Debt, greed,
hate are all things that would cause the 3I to gain an agent inside the
enemy camp...

As for slipping in an agent, well lets see, TAS is there...  Trade Houses
are there...  All you have to do is get good reliable information...  And,
from what I see the Swords Worlds have almost total freedom of the
press....  In other words, a 3I Mega-Corp allows 3I Intel to place a few
agents into it operations in the Sword Worlds...  Use their Ships to send
back the information, or to use Free Traders to do the same...  Not a
problem...

> Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #802
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, September 7 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 803



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Deck orientation
Re: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)
Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....)
Re: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)
GDW CD ROM
Re: Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....) 
HIWG CD-ROM
Looking for.....
final comment on Deck orientation
You're Welcome and a Big Thank you! ( was Re: TAS IMTU )
1) Imperial Women 2) Oh my
Re: final comment on Deck orientation
deck orientation & ship plans
Re: Carbondioxide an atmospheric taint?
Re: Deckplans: Small Craft (longish)
Re: A comment on deck orientation
Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?
Re: Cheap energy in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:35:25 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Deck orientation

I have been going over some of the Judges Guild Products for CT & guess
what I found...  JG Designed a few ships with the deck orientation along
the angle of thrust...  The "Singing Star" Core Ship & Module Ship for
"Doom of the Singing Star" is your best example of this one...  So it is
from a canon or near-canon source as it is approved for use with
traveller...

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 98 19:36:24 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)

On 09/06/98 at 03:54 PM,  Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> said:

>> IMTU, TAS is a Mega-Organization.  It is a huge non-profit
>> corporation that dwarfs even the largest Mega-Corp in size, revenue
>> and influence. 

<snip>

>That's great, and so it is (or will be) IMTU, as it should be, 

Thanks.  ;-> I spent all afternoon writing this out when I should
have been doing the next turns in AKUS MOBY.  ;->

>even in  the TNE where it probably lost most of its vast fortunes to the
>results of Virus.

Yes, that's true.  In my version of TNE, it's the remments of TAS
that are the strongest influence in restoring travel and trade.  Of
course, I pretty much play in a universe thousands of years after
"the collapse"...no dark age or twilight for me, it was a 5,000 year
collapse where everyone (that the PC's know about) went back to TL0
and started over with a crazy intermix of all the races and species.

>> One quick way to get designated a Red Zone is for the local
>> government to give TAS a difficult time.  You won't find TAS
>> facilities in a Red Zone system, and when TAS pulls out so does most
>> of the trade and traders.

>Now we are at loggerheads. If the TAS organization is a just and good
>thing then it should be fair and unbiased in it's assessment of the
>non member world. Otherwise in their limited view they are chastising
>every free trader and legitimate trade association with their biased
>view. This sounds like the spoiled kid routine. "No we don't want to
>play with your rules in my backyard." "OK, I'll take my bat and ball,
>go home and tell everyone your no fun to play with."

Well, that's not exactly what I meant.  By "give TAS a difficult
time" I mean kill/inprision/deport TAS employees, seize and/or
destroy TAS facilites, ipso facto that would make the system
dangerous to travellers.  However, who's to say that all the
employees of such a far-flung organization are going to be good
honest sophants?  Adventure seeds:  1.  The PC's are TAS auditors
sent by the Director General to investigate the Red Zoning of a
system and determine if the designation is justifed; 2.  The PC's
are citizens of (or hired by) a system unjustly labeled Red/Amber by
a corrupt TAS manager seeking to get the designation overturned; 3.
The PC's are interested parties trying to *get* a system ruled Red
or Amber because of some danger, but are running into a corrupt
manager that is being paid off by the local poobahs...complications
insue.

>If you meant that, in both cases, there was a real danger that the
>traveller should be aware of (and I don't mean that government big
>mucky muck has paid enough to purchase this no no designation) then I
>can see a real value in the organization. That is the way I view it
>as operating IMTU, i.e. not subject to the wims of those with   m o n
>e y . I see the information as having been obtained by direct
>examination and probably at some cost to someone. Is that not so
>IYTU.

I do to, but any organization can have corrupt people working in it
and powerful people trying to influence it.  Usually, TAS works as
it should, IMTU, but *sometimes* it takes a wrong turn and the PC's
get caught in the cracks. Make sense? ;->

<snip>
 
>> Corporations can (and most often do) buy Corporate Memberships with
>> TAS.  This doesn't give them the passages, but it does allow
>> corporate employees access to TAS facilities and its datafiles on a
>> low charge back basis.

>but this shouldn't give them the right nor TAS the obligation to
>falsify the danger to travel there unless it is in fact true. (It
>just may be if the de-facto Megagcorp has fighting equipment in orbit
>to stop intrusion by others.)

No, it shouldn't and doesn't usually, but it can when you bring
people into the equation.  I think we agree on the goals of TAS (the
public ones anyway ;-), but maybe my version is a little more
corruptible than yours.  

In mine, TAS has to continually self-police itself to stomp out
corruption, and it never *completely* succeeds.  However, it's the
self-policing and even-handed fairness that maintains its "pure and
the driven snow" public image.  Without the belief that TAS is
completely fair it couldn't *be* in all the systems of all the
competing stellar empires.

<snip>

>> Members may also bring "guests" into TAS facilities.  These guests
>> are there on a "pay as you go" basis.

>I didn't know that! I thought your membership paid for me when I'm
>your guest.

It might in the published material, it doesn't *exactly* IMTU.
Generally, the member's account is billed and it's up to him as to
whether he pays for his guests or he collects from them later.

<snip>

>> Marc has said something like, "all adventures start in a Starport",
>> I modify that to, "most adventures start at TAS."

>Both are usually in the same place, as I recall.

Yes. I wasn't saying Marc's statement was wrong, just modifying it
for MTU. ;->
 
Eris,
    the Heretic
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:56:41 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....)

Steve Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Drop off passive sensor units and then infiltrate to collect data every
once in a while - with accurate deep-space jumping neighbouring interstellar
states border regions can be lousy with listening posts (one shudders to 
think what the Islands sub-sectors piranha pool is like).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In your opinion, is the situation in the Islands cluster worse than one
would usually find in an area not dominated by an interstellar government
(like the 3i, the Heirate or the Consulate)?

I will admit it's strange that none of the class-A starport high-pop worlds
in the cluster found any common ground with each other - this was
a campaign setting, of course. Perhaps the combination of no open
frontiers (due to the surrounding J-7+ abysses) and relatively recent
and equal jump drive acquiring (due to the IISS's jump drive distribution)
made this place such a volatile environment.

Or maybe it's something in the water.... <g>


Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

...still kicking myself for tossing out that old notebook with my
Royal Sansterrean Navy fleet designs in it...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:16:55 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: TAS IMTU (was Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?)

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 

To keep this short Eris, your reply indicated that we are in agreement
on all points. Thanks.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:10:12 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: GDW CD ROM

	The GDW CD ROM is a working project. The goal is to digitize everything GDW
published on Traveller and publish it in three different forms (PDF, HTML,
Text) on CD-ROM.
	If everything works out, there might be something out by late next year.
	Understandably it's a long slow process (scan, proof, proof, and than do HTML
and PDF versions), done by some very hard working volunteers with Real Lives
to deal with.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:15:24 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....) 

> I will admit it's strange that none of the class-A starport high-pop worlds
> in the cluster found any common ground with each other - this was
> a campaign setting, of course. Perhaps the combination of no open
> frontiers (due to the surrounding J-7+ abysses) and relatively recent
> and equal jump drive acquiring (due to the IISS's jump drive distribution)
> made this place such a volatile environment.

Why do they have to?  They're not Imperial states.  They *could* be like the 
situation in Reavers' Deep, only a bit more extreme: several small pocket 
empires each striving to come out on top of the political / economic struggle.
 
> Or maybe it's something in the water.... <g>

Naw.  The Islands were colonised by a bunch of rugged individualists.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:22:14 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: HIWG CD-ROM

	Along with the GDW CD-ROM is the HIWG CD-ROM which started out as an
electronic collection of HIWG working documents and than slowly expanded from
there to where it is today (that being roughly 360 megabytes worth of
Traveller material and some game aids). Long ago it went past what I could
ship out on floppies (last time someone bought it on floppies it took 17
disks, and cost $20 or so). Now it would take up 200+ floppies compressed as
cost somewhere near
the same except for CD-ROM capability.
	Also, it's being slowly expanded to cover licensees materials as they become
available and permission is granted (4 of which have done so, so far).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:32:04 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Looking for.....

	On the subject of the HIWG CD-ROM. I'd like to say I'm always looking for
material to add to it (so if you want Traveller fans looking at you material
100 years from now, this can be a good way to go about it :) ).

	Wanted:
Adventures
Bestiary
Contact!
Designs
Houserules
Spreadsheets
Software
Starships
Vehicles

	Anything and Everything.

	All rules sets supported. From CT to T5 and GURPS.

	Occasionally I make the rounds of the web ring and sometimes solicit
material, but not everybody's on the ring and I don't always solicit
everything I like, let alone the material I'm not necessarily interested in
myself perhaps. So I'd like to do so now.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:38:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: final comment on Deck orientation

What six things? 100 years ago flying, the internet, space exploration,
antibiotics, nuclear weapons, processed foods were impossible. Times and
technology change.  As to moot, i meant pointless.  
  Space is three dimensional. The segmented can would be a waste of
money.  As to the list of authors (except brin and robinson) can you
name someone prominent you who made a movie post star trek? Most of the
authors you quoted wrote while space is still a dream.
  And finally,  the space shuttle is perp for three minutes out of a 12
day mission. It doesn't land the way it takes off.  A segmented shuttle
is costly and worthless.  But I do agree with one thing. Its your TU.  I
prefer realism over coolness. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Sep 98 21:28:49 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: You're Welcome and a Big Thank you! ( was Re: TAS IMTU )

On 09/06/98 at 06:16 PM,  Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca> said:

>To keep this short Eris, your reply indicated that we are in
>agreement on all points. Thanks.

You're welcome, and I appreciate the comments.

Like a lot of folks I know, sometimes when I post an article to the
list that I've put a lot of time into, and get no replies at
all...like it just dropped into a blackhole...it gets discouraging.

I want to let *everyone* that has posted interesting and thoughtful
messages that I appreciate them, and have saved many of them away
with the intention of using their ideas, and often with the
intention of replying...eventually.  If you haven't heard from me,
it wasn't because I haven't appreciated your work, generally it has
been because RL distracted me.  I'm sure the same can be said by
*many* of us.


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:50:02 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: 1) Imperial Women 2) Oh my

>Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:56:02
>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence

>Then we have people like Bubbles, who went to school with Cha-Cha, and who
>tends to know all sorts of people.

NEVER underestimate the power of Bubbles!
I mean, the women in the Traveller universe have *extraordinary*
level's of power, if they choose to put their mind to it!   (Completely 
ignoring the Aslan females, too.)

THEY know who's involved with who, THEY know what Daddy really 
did with the Amamda Expedition, THEY know who's wearing paste, 
and who's wearing genuine Dessri Fire Stones.

And remember that power in the Imperium flow's through the bloodlines.
Now, everyone know's that's it's the women who actually keep the
family rolling along harmoniously, and the women who know all 
the dirty details, which they may or may not choose to share with 
their husband's.  And God only know's how many are scheming to put
*their* child as Archon, complete with unfortunate accident's and 
rumour management.

True, I'm assuming a patriarchal Imperium, which is only somewhat true
(power can flow to either men or women on an equal basis, but the 
very nature of power and the Imperial Hierarchy tends to promote 
masculine values - honour, duty, bravery, etc.).  However, I consider
it self-evident that women and men operate on rather different 
set's of principles and goal's, and these different goal's will
manifest themselves in different behaviour pattern's.

Which leaves the big question: what are the differences between 
Solomani and Vilani women, when it comes to behaviour and 
atitudes to children, husband's and family?  Are Vilani women have 
the same taste for the supernatural as Solomani women have?
Is Vilani civilization as biased to males as the Solomani?
Does Vilani women control the family wallet, as Solomani women
tend to?  Are mariages pernament in the typical Vilani household?
Are concubines expected?   

(Obviously, I do NOT have the Vilani & Vargr book...)

***************************

>Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 08:32:50 -0700
>From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

>But whoever believes the lowly? I'm sure that some mercenary would
>want to check it out. "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me." sort
>of scenario.

Oh my.



Now, if it was a  bet between youthful, fun-loving noblemen on who
can last the longest on HellWorld III, THAT I can understand...

Alvin Plummer
Looking for Machiavelli's _The Serf_

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:43:03 -0600
From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
Subject: Re: final comment on Deck orientation

> As to the list of authors (except brin and robinson) can you
>name someone prominent you who made a movie post star trek? Most of the
>authors you quoted wrote while space is still a dream.

Star Trek premiered in 1966. So, except for C.S.Lewis, all the authors on
my rough list were active post Star Trek. Many have had new work published
in the 1990s. 2001: A Space Odyssey premiered in 1968, two years after Star
Trek hit television. (Development work began on Star Trek in 1963.) Solar
Odyssey (not a great movie, but rather interesting) is 1986 or 88 IIRC. In
comics Albedo (1980s) leaps to mind.

Urban legend has it that Traveller was influenced by Star Wars: A New Hope.

BTW Star Trek and Star Wars are both space opera. In Star Trek, Star Wars
or Traveller terms space is -still- a dream. The shuttle, Mir, Freedom
(can't remember the new name) and both U.S. and Russian manned missions are
designed to operate in microgravity, therefore no orientation in the sense
we have been discussing. And the shuttle is not going to Altair IV anytime
soon :^)

All three orientations (parallel, perpendicular and 'micro') appear from
science fictions earliest days - in parallel, if you will ;-} The history
and body of science fiction and its sub-genres is very rich. Which, in a
round about way, brings me to another, greater point. How many here are
familiar with Alberto Manguel's and Gianni Guadalupi's work
_The_Dictionary_of_Imaginary_Places_? It's a magnificent work which details
places in fiction. Their criteria was that the place had to potentially
exist on Earth. Therefore, Burroughs' Mars, for example, was excluded. (I
received my copy as a reward for academic excellence in grade 7. The same
teacher taught us to play Dungeons and Dragons: we had an hour on Friday
afternoons to play.) Who on the list would be interested in participating
in a similar compilation for planets detailed in science fiction? For
copyright purposes this tome would be restricted to private use and free
distribution within the group.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:35:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: deck orientation & ship plans

Ok, I've decided to put my money where my mouth is. I'll draw up some
deck plans for the "common" ships. But since I don't have any T4 or TNE
materials, I'll need the appropriate T4 figures to work from:

Total volume of ship (disp. tons)
list of "subsystems"/areas present
volume of each "subsystem"/area (drives, staterooms, etc)
min/max linear measurements of any components

I assume we are talking about the Type S scout, the Free Trader and the
"Fat Trader"? Or are there any other ships that are "really, really"
common? 

ps. What's the assumed seperation between floor/ceiling and between
ceiling and floor of the next deck?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:05:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Carbondioxide an atmospheric taint?

In mail you write:

>>The amount of carbon is *constant*. The carbon cycle on a planet has
>>CO2 in the atmosphere, carbonate ions in the ocean, and carbonate rocks
>>on or near the surface. When subducted, the rocks release the CO2,
>>which returns to the atmosphere and oceans via volcanic activity.
>>
>>When you add life, you get plants turning CO2 into biomass. And
>>microrganisms turning carbonate ions into calcium carbonate shells
>>(ditto for animals like clams and coral). That increases the formation
>>of limestone, which eventually gets subducted. And biomass recycles
>>carbon, except when conditions lead to the formation of coal (and
>>possibly oil[1]) deposits. Those take longer to recycle.
>
> Actually, not all crust is subducted (the continents are too light,
> that is why you have the Himalayas, neither India or Asia is
> willing to be subducted).

Erosion takes care of that. The Applachians used to be as tall as the
Rockies. And the Himalayas are eroding rapidly.

> In any case, the process is slow and
> if you increase fixation, more carbon is sitting on the
> "conveyor belt".  The question is, what is the limit?  It may
> be that there is some fundamental limit and, as photosythesis
> evolves, plants just keep bringing the level down and down until
> you hit some sort of fundamental limit.

> If I have time in a few weeks I'll see if I can't look up what
> is known about CO2 level over the Earths history.

AS I said, I believe that accepted theory" says it was a *lot* higher a
hundred million or so years back.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:47:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deckplans: Small Craft (longish)

In mail you write:

> Thought of a reason for airplane-style decks on a midsize ship:
> loading/unloading of small craft. Most small craft use airplane-style
> decks, they land like airplanes. Since these small craft have significant
> length, it's difficult to dock them oriented differently than the thrust axis
> of the mother ship (for medium-sized mother ships). There would also
> be maneuver problems - when the small craft has to catch up to you,
> then maneuver perpendicular to direction of travel? Docking paralell to 
> direction of travel sounds less complex to me, but I'm no orbital mechanic.
>
> Dock them oriented paralell to thrust, now open the cargo bay/passenger 
> compartment on the small craft. Let's see the difference mother ship deck 
> orientation makes:
>
> If you have decks on the mother ship perpendicular to thrust, you're faced
> with loading a high, narrow cargo bay.

Only if the *ship* is "high and narrow".

> You have to reorient the passengers' "up" 90 degrees when they board
> (annoying/disconcerting for people who just left a planet, if they're
> not professional spacers). The hangar bay takes up multiple decks,
> meaning that multiple decks have the integrity risk of having a
> compartment regularly exposed to vacuum on that deck - you'd rather
> have such a hangar bay limited to one deck, I think it would be safer
> and more secure.

All reasons for having the ship laid out rather differently than is
usually seen. :-)

When/if I get the required info and do the designs for some
perpendicular ships, you'll see stuff laid out a lot differently. 

I hope to see cargo holds surrounding the drive on the bottom deck, for
instance. And docking for small craft would be with their decks
parallels to te ship's decks. And hopefully, close to the
crew/passenger quarters for easy evacuation in emergencies.

> If the decks on the mother ship are paralell to thrust, loading and
> unloading cargo and passengers from a small craft is trivial - open
> the cargo door, the cargo is much more accessible. 

The same is true if they are perpendicular to thrust and the small
craft are docked with their decks parallel to the ones in the ship.

> The _Broadsword_ merc cruiser uses perp-to-thrust decks and
> paralell-to-thrust docking for the cutters. Works, but you get the
> pleasure of having to combat-check and load the ATV's in either
> zero-G or while it's sitting on it's tail - neither one a real good choice.

Agreed. That's a design problem. 

> As for elevators, check out the deckplans for Enterprise-D from
> Star Trek NextGen. It nicely details ideas for turbolift shafts on a big
> ship - how the turbolift system is really like a subway system, with
> side tracks and more than one car per track. There are even holding
> areas for spare cars, and a "pass through" link so the turbolift
> system on Enterprise-D can become linked to the turbolift system
> of a starbase - take one car directly from your engineering station to
> that nice dining hall on spacedock when you're in port.
>
> Ideas like these, especially multiple elevators per shaft, can really
> speed up people moving through big skyscraper-style ships.
>
> Of course, the system is presented in deck plans for a ship with
> an airplane-style deck plan.... <g>

Trying to justify "treknology" is usually futile. If the ship shakes
every time it gets hit, then they ought to be turned into a thin film
whenever it accelerates.

Too much of the designs are based around the needs of TV and the (lack
of) intelligence in the producers and much of the audience.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:16:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A comment on deck orientation

In mail you write:

>   Perpendicular is too complex, inconvenient and costly for me. Yes
> costly. I have too many things that cover too many decks. I believe that
> perp is a sort of mental laziness.  The segmented can scenario. I draw
> many small sections rather than two or three large ones.

Only if you insist on making the ship long and stretched out. Heck, the
*best* use of materials would give you a *spherical* ship. 

>    As to parellel designs being like airplanes, I prefer to look at subs
> and naval ships. No prep there. Why?  Same reasons I stated.  And
> remember, the only difference between an ocean and space is space is
> larger, colder and has gravity. 

Space *doesn't "have gravity". Or rather, the effects of gravity, being
uniformly applied , aren't *felt*. That's what free fall is all about.
Space isn't "cold" either. 

And BTW, ships, planes and subs all have perpendicular decks.
Perpendiucular to the major *acceleration force*! The "thrust" of the
engines is nowhere *near* the force of gravity. For spacecraft that's
not true.

Also, ships and subs are long and narrow because that lets them move
thru the water faster. It reduces drag. But take a good look at vessels
that don't have to move very fast, bu need to hold lots of stuff.
Ferries are a good example. They are rarely much more than twice as
long as they are wide. The wider beam gives more stability *and* makes
it easier to get stuff into them.

>      I think the discussion, while interesting, is moot. None of the
> known sci-fi authors (movie or otherwise) has designed prep and I doubt
> seriously if TU really existed, AHL would be perp. I chalk it up to
> fertile yet wrong imaginations.  

Sorry, but you must not "know" of many SF authors. Heinlein, Clarke,
Pournelle, Norton and many, many others designed "perpendicular" decks.
BTW, there are a lot of so-called "SF" movies where SF is "science
fantasy", not science fiction, regardless of what the publicity says.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:28:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

In mail you write:

> At 09:18 AM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>I'm wondering about the last one.  Given Travelelr's
>>high tech level, should any system be zoned because of
>>environmental influences?  After all, no world is automatically
>>red zones because they have a corrosive atmosphere, but 
>>high Law/Gov level's automatically earn Red or Amber zones.
>
> Picture a world with an airborne version of rabies, with a long incubation
> time.  *Any* exposure to the world's atmosphere exposes you.  Might be
> easier to declare the place off-limits.
>
> High radiation levels, extremely nasty local wildlife.. any yhting that
> presents a real threat to anyone who landed there.
>
> A few years back I did a critter that had a telepathic ability to track
> prey, and used the telepathy talent Assault to kill prey.  The beasts'
> homeworld was Red Zoned.  Why?  Because if you survived the attack, it jump
> started the victim's natural psionic abilities!

One of Christopher Anvil's stories about Col. Towers and his group[1]
dealt with a planet inhabited by lizardman-like natives who could
teleport. Their abilities were both logically developed and "limited".

It developed that they could teleport to any *object* that they'd had a
chance to "scan" (involved at least a brief touch). They could also
detect a little about the surroundings (mainly if there was enough room
for them to arrive). And they could tell if pieces were broken off the
target object or if it was broken. They had an *interstellar* range.

The above was basicly discovered when the scout who'd first visited
went to investigate an asteroid in another system and accidentally
bumped his ship against it, crushing a seasheel that had somehow been
stuck to his ship with some sort of tarry substance. Suddenly there
were a bunch of very dead "lizardmen".

Now, consider the situation of the Centrans who'd landed on this
planet. How do they get away without taking the natives with them?

The solution is lovely. 

[1]these stories are an offshoot of "Pandora's Planet" in which the
Centran Empire "conquers" Earth.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:09:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cheap energy in Traveller

In mail you write:

> Extract from http://www.crossover.com/~costik/inttrav.html
>
> "The smallest power plant which may be installed on a ship in 
> Traveller is a standard "A" power plan. The A-plant can consume 
> 20 tons of hydrogen over a period of a week, convert it to energy, 
> and feed it to an "A" FTL drive. (This is how much energy is needed 
> by the smallest FTL drive to make a jump of 1 parsec if installed in 
> a 200 ton ship.) If we assume Miller is using metric tons (1 ton = 
> 1,000 kg), an A power plant then can deliver 380,000 MW-years 
> of energy over a period of one week. Over a year, it could deliver 
> 19,800,000 MW-years. Thus, a single A power plant produces 
> about 86 times as much energy in a year as all of the electrical 
> generating plants in the United States. A single jump in Traveller 
> uses about 160% of the energy the US produces in a single year. "
>              - Greg Costikyan, 1982
>
> OK, I have heard that some folk here actually did model a 
> universe where energy is *this* cheap.  How did that universe look like?
> What was the consequences of ultra-cheap energy in a society?
> What becomes cost-effective, and what simply isn't worth the time?
> Does it change society as much as cheap nano-tech would?

With power that cheap, you can process raw *rock* (and other solid
wastes) thru what amounts to an overgrown mass spectrograph to seperate
out all the elements present. So what if gold is one part per million?
That means you'll get one gram per ton of rock processed, plus one gram
each of the other "one part per million" elements. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #803
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Monday, September 7 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 804



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Banks novels (was Re: Cheap Energy In Traveller)
Re: Honourable behaviour...
Re: Looking for.....
re: Deckplans (Small craft)
Bubbles, and friends of bubbles
Re: Cheap energy in Traveller
Re: 1) Imperial Women 
MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
Re: List of DGP's Megatraveller books.
Re: Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....)
Re: GDW CDROM
"Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me." 
BITS announces 101 Religions
OT: Good GURPS Art
A few notes on structure

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:41:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Banks novels (was Re: Cheap Energy In Traveller)

In mail you write:

> Examples of fiction set in energy rich universes include John Varley's
> 'Ophiuchi Hotline' and the Culture novels of Iain Banks : 'Consider
> Phlebas', 'The Player of Games', 'Use of Weapons', and 'Excession'.

Is that the order of the books? 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:39:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Honourable behaviour...

In mail you write:

> I am thinking of two incident's in American history: one, where 
> General Lee discussed how much he disliked the concept of
> a Secret Service, and an other, when apparently the U.S. disbanded
> a secret service after World War One because "gentlemen 
> do not read each other's mail."

The second incident was the dissolution of a group decdicated to
breaking the codes and ciphers being used by the various diplomatic
missions in the US. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:02:34 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Looking for.....

> Wanted:
>Spreadsheets


I can send you a spreadsheet that I wrote for designing Guns for TNE if you
like.

Cheers,
 Anson.

Don't believe a word your Grandfather says, he's been classified
grade A psychotic. You can see it from the hole in his head, a saner
man would have used a bigger gun.

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ !t4 !tg tt+ to ru ge+ !3i c- jt+ au ls+ pi+ ta++ he++

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 07:35:26 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Deckplans (Small craft)

Leonard Erikson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> If you have decks on the mother ship perpendicular to thrust, you're faced
> with loading a high, narrow cargo bay.

Only if the *ship* is "high and narrow".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Each deck of the mother ship is about 3m tall. The small craft docks
while thrusting in the same direction as the mother ship's thrust.
If the small craft is longer than it is wide, then the hangar bay will
be several decks tall. Even for a ship's boat, you'll have a hangar
bay cargo hatch that's about 3m wide and about 12m tall.

My assumption was that for maneuver purposes it would be easier to
dock a small craft while it was travelling the same direction as the
mother ship - travelling paralell to the mother ship's direction of thrust.
Add to this that some small craft are longer than the cross-section
of their ship (Kinunir's Pinnace, for example).

There may be a structural integrity benefit to docking your boats with
their long axis paralell to direction of thrust. If your hangar bays
are laid out perpendicular to thrust, you have large areas with no
vertical load-bearing bulkheads. Hangar bays with long axis paralell to
thrust (regardless of how the mother ship's decks are laid out) 
give you more strong bulkheads over a cross-sectional area.

Leonard again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I hope to see cargo holds surrounding the drive on the bottom deck, for
instance. And docking for small craft would be with their decks
parallels to te ship's decks. And hopefully, close to the
crew/passenger quarters for easy evacuation in emergencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
While I see this as OK for very small small craft (lifeboats), I don't
like docking big small craft (cutters, shuttles) with their axis of travel
perpendicular to that of the ship, no matter which way the ship's
decks are oriented - unless we are talking really, really big (60000+tn)
starships here.

Leonard again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Ideas like these, especially multiple elevators per shaft, can really
> speed up people moving through big skyscraper-style ships.
>
> Of course, the system is presented in deck plans for a ship with
> an airplane-style deck plan.... <g>

Trying to justify "treknology" is usually futile. If the ship shakes
every time it gets hit, then they ought to be turned into a thin film
whenever it accelerates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Of course, one of the reasons I'm a Travellerophile instead of a Trekkie.
<g>
But the deckplans for this particular ship (Enterprise-D) were an
interesting design study in making corridors and elevators coexist
in a layout - even with the elevators able to travel laterally as well
as vertically.

Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601


Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:44:04
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Bubbles, and friends of bubbles

>From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
>Subject: 1) Imperial Women 2) Oh my
>
>>Then we have people like Bubbles, who went to school with Cha-Cha, and who
>>tends to know all sorts of people.
>
>NEVER underestimate the power of Bubbles!
>I mean, the women in the Traveller universe have *extraordinary*
>level's of power, if they choose to put their mind to it!   (Completely 
>ignoring the Aslan females, too.)
>

Ummm, I dont know about your Traveller universe, but in mine, Bubbles is
definitly male.

The British ruling class had this thing for very silly nicknames - check
some histories of the Great War, and the nicknames some of the British
generals had.

>THEY know who's involved with who, THEY know what Daddy really 
>did with the Amamda Expedition, THEY know who's wearing paste, 
>and who's wearing genuine Dessri Fire Stones.

Well, yeah.

>
>And remember that power in the Imperium flow's through the bloodlines.
>Now, everyone know's that's it's the women who actually keep the
>family rolling along harmoniously, and the women who know all 
>the dirty details, which they may or may not choose to share with 
>their husband's.  And God only know's how many are scheming to put
>*their* child as Archon, complete with unfortunate accident's and 
>rumour management.

Thats simple. All of them.

Except of course the ones who are going for the whole enchilada themselves
... what was that line out of Dune ... 'Life in the Royal household was not
like life in a normal household. By the age of ten, I had counted six
seperate assasination attempts. As horrible as this sounds, I am not
entirely sure that my father was entirely innocent in all these attempts'.

>
>True, I'm assuming a patriarchal Imperium, which is only somewhat true
>(power can flow to either men or women on an equal basis, but the 
>very nature of power and the Imperial Hierarchy tends to promote 
>masculine values - honour, duty, bravery, etc.).  However, I consider
>it self-evident that women and men operate on rather different 
>set's of principles and goal's, and these different goal's will
>manifest themselves in different behaviour pattern's.

Kenji, can I flick-pass this to you ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:59:30 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Cheap energy in Traveller

From:           	shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date sent:      	Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:09:48 PST

> > Extract from http://www.crossover.com/~costik/inttrav.html

[snip]

> With power that cheap, you can process raw *rock* (and other solid
> wastes) thru what amounts to an overgrown mass spectrograph to seperate
> out all the elements present. So what if gold is one part per million?
> That means you'll get one gram per ton of rock processed, plus one gram
> each of the other "one part per million" elements. 

Its one of Travellers convienient "look the other way" bits. Power in the TU is 
mindbogglingly cheap (so cheap that parallel ship decks become econmically 
viable even :*>). The logical extension of this would be that there would be 
much less interstellar trade than is represented. This was Mr Costikyan whole 
premis (even though the article is based on a slightly faulty assumption). 
Therefore in order to retain playability, we just ignore this inconvient little fact.

BTW: Its frightening that I remember this article from when it was first published 
in Ares <shudder>. Even more so after I visited Mr Costikyan's website. Hey 
Loren or Marc, did GDW ever finish publishing the Europa series?

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 05:02:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: 1) Imperial Women 

"alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com> wrote:

>I mean, the women in the Traveller universe have *extraordinary*
>level's of power, if they choose to put their mind to it!   (Completely 
>ignoring the Aslan females, too.)

>THEY know who's involved with who, THEY know what Daddy really 
>did with the Amamda Expedition, THEY know who's wearing paste, 
>and who's wearing genuine Dessri Fire Stones.

<snip>

>True, I'm assuming a patriarchal Imperium, which is only somewhat true
>(power can flow to either men or women on an equal basis, but the 
>very nature of power and the Imperial Hierarchy tends to promote 
>masculine values - honour, duty, bravery, etc.).  However, I consider
>it self-evident that women and men operate on rather different 
>set's of principles and goal's, and these different goal's will
>manifest themselves in different behaviour pattern's.

Masculine values?  In our own culture, quite true, but I would hardly
expect any of this to remain constant over 2000+ years

Given that different Earth cultures have wildly different standards of
appropriate masculine and feminine activities, values, and professions,
and the fact that easy access to birth control seems to rapidly promote
female equality, I would expect the Solomani to be both more egalitarian
and quite different from us in terms of what is regarded as masculine and
feminine.  Since the Vilani evolved for 300,000 years on an entirely
different planet I would expect *great* differences between our ideas
about men and women and theirs. 

As a first guess:

My guess is that since they rigidly break society up on species grounds
the Solomani would be exceedingly egalitarian wrt men and women, to the
point of having effectively no sex discrimination, or even any sexual
division of labor, other than physically bearing children (and with
artificial wombs coming in at TL 9, may women may never bear children). 

In social terms I would expect that they would find the idea of separate
masculine and feminine activities & values somewhat baffling. 

The Vilani are a very status and class oriented society, so I would expect
moderately strong gender attitudes (likely no stronger than those in the
modern-day First World). 

However, I would expect these attitudes to be *very* different from our
own.  Evidence for a gender based personality traits is exceedingly
contradictory and such differences seem much more likely to be largely
determined by culture. 

- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
annoying liberal anthropologist

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:32:44 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
Subject: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???

>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:03:37 +0100
>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
>
>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?
>

The Librarian career should make an interesting change from all
those military types and Vilani Chefs

:-)

Phil Kitching
- --
  Interested in a wargames show in Colchester, Essex UK?
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:37:39 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: List of DGP's Megatraveller books.

On 4 Sep 98, at 12:38, chauncey smith wrote:

> I was playing with the cd-rom looking for more kkkewl stuff and they mention
> a alien race book 3 from DGP...  can some one give me a list of all the
> megatraveller stuff that they put out?

They never got out a third book, although several others beyond the 
two they started with were proposed.

Completed MT stuff by DGP:
World Builder's Handbook
Referee's Gaming Kit
101 Vehicles
Alien Vol. 1: Vilani & Vargr
Alien Vol. 2: Solomani & Aslan
Flaming Eye Campaign Sourcebook
MegaTraveller Journals #1-4
(Many of the later Traveller Digests had Megatraveller related 
material as well)
The Early Adventures (The Feature Adventures from Traveller 
Digests' 1-4, reworked for MT).

In addition, they contributed heavily to most of GDW's stuff for MT, 
including writing Knightfall for them.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar                sdollar@goodnet.com
- ---------------------------------------------------
Published Game Designer, Frustrated Novelist
"Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God."
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:53:13 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....)

>From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
>Subject: Islands Cluster (was re: Imperial Intelligence....)
>
>Steve Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>  Drop off passive sensor units and then infiltrate to collect data every
>once in a while - with accurate deep-space jumping neighbouring interstellar
>states border regions can be lousy with listening posts (one shudders to 
>think what the Islands sub-sectors piranha pool is like).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>In your opinion, is the situation in the Islands cluster worse than one
>would usually find in an area not dominated by an interstellar government
>(like the 3i, the Heirate or the Consulate)?

  Yes, because we've been told (RSB, TCS) that just about the only thing
they agree on is the desirability of hammering away at each other. One
does begin to wonder what it's in aid of, as it hardly looks like they
want to co-habit or even administer each other.

>I will admit it's strange that none of the class-A starport high-pop worlds
>in the cluster found any common ground with each other - this was
>a campaign setting, of course. Perhaps the combination of no open
>frontiers (due to the surrounding J-7+ abysses) and relatively recent
>and equal jump drive acquiring (due to the IISS's jump drive distribution)
>made this place such a volatile environment.

  Worse, a campaign setting where campaign has its military meaning...
Seriously, perhaps the switch from STL to FTL culture went off so badly
because of its sudden nature - the quaint hatreds of the other European
cultures didn't matter much when they were isolated (nor did they make
much sense), but the same attitudes persisted into the Jump era, where
they immediately justified their paranoia by trying to conquer each
other. In other words, fluke/it's all self-inflicted.

>Or maybe it's something in the water.... <g>

  The Batwings' Revenge? Maybe Cthulhu is behind it all...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:52:10 -0400
From: Matthew Harelick <matth@CYBERNEX.NET>
Subject: Re: GDW CDROM

Hi: 

Do you know how much it will cost? 

How can I help? 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:52:34 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me." 

>Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 08:32:50 -0700
>From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Amber & Red Zones - social only?

>But whoever believes the lowly? I'm sure that some mercenary would
>want to check it out. "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me." sort
>of scenario.

Yes, I am STILL stunned by these words.

Honestly, has this mercenary actually BEEN anywhere?  Has he
even left his homeworld?  What is his expected lifespan, anyway?

I just had to build an adventure: military types,  please correct
where appropriate, so we can learn to do it right.

Traveller Adventure: Time for a wupping!

The PC's are recently discharges ex-military (Army or
Marines, Imperial or system), just breaking into the mercenaries field.
Looking for work, they sign up with a decent-looking outfit, Sammy's
Army (aka The Black Fist).  It's got a reputation for bravery and a
very nice, five-year contract with Gammite Corp, a mining/refining
concern found in 10 subsector's.

Setting:

Sammy's Army is mainly a battalion of leg infrantry (about 700 men), with
an artillery arm of 12 light howitzer's (six projectile gun's,
three laser, three meson) and a construction platoon of 20, routinely
supplied with local labour.  They used to have a small artigrav
air arm, but lost that in the opening actions of a battle seven year's ago.
Air support is now provided by the three merc jumpships (_Woe_,
_Lamentations_, and _Disaster_).  Armed with laser's and anti-ship
missiles, they do a less-than-desirable job of ortillery, but they do
manage.
Their equipment level is typically TL 13, but the starship's are at TL 12.
They can be rated as three-quarter's veteran, one-quarter regular.

Their greatest claim to fame is their destruction of Parsel's Panzer's,
a TL 13 armoured calvary unit that had successfully repulsed
two previous attack's.  Also, they helped to protect a TL 11 system
government for four long, bitter year's, suppressing a nasty local
insurgency.

The leader of Sammy's Army is Samuel Noonan, a large, powerfully
built man of mixed Solomani-Genoee ancestory, with an ego twice
as big as life.  Noonan is a very capable ground commander, and
isn't shy in letting you know about it.  On the financial side, he's a good
negotiator, letting his naturally bellicose personality do most of the work,
and knowing when to tune it down when it's time to rope the money in.
Sammy cares about his men, but only as a workman takes care of his tools, as
a mean's to an end.  And that end is fighting: the Chief really does
love the smell of cordite in the morning, and never feel's as alive as
he does in a middle of a firefight.

Situation:

Gammite Corp has a problem, and they want Sammy to solve it.
There has been several hit-and-run incident's at their masssive
Sarodandto facility, located on a TL D world, population in the
1-20 million range.  The local government and has beefed
up security around Sarodandto, and is building light fortification's
around the site.  But Gammite prefer's to be
pro-active, and they believe that they have located the armed camp
where the attacker's are based at.

It's in a polar region, completely wihtout sunlight and icy cold, so heat
suit's and special equipment preparation is called for.  Also, there
are some anti-space emplacement's: the corp sent two low-orbit
satilites over the region, and both were shot down from the ground.
It's currently winter, and the region will remain in pitch darkenss for four
Imperial month's yet.

The local government is in contact with the base: the base claim's that
they have no dispute with the local government,  but only with Gammite
Corp.  The local population has no desire to get involved in an off-world
dispute, and the government feel's that it's
already doing enough by protecting Sarodandto.  They want to encourage
talks between Gammite and the attacker's, but Gammite isn't interested in
talk.

What images the satilites provided is of a tiny base, of no more than
200 people, and the equivelant of two small ship laser batteries.
Radiation and neutron emission's suggest a TL of at least 13, with
TL 14-15ish more likely.  At least part of the base is underground, and
there is
a meson communication facility, set for interplanetary ranges.
No vehicle garages are seen.

Sammy Noonan is confident that the Black Fist can handle this.  He has
fought against superiour-tech opponent's before, and won - there is nothing
magical about technological superiority, and assumption's that the
enemy makes about your supposed inferiority can be made to cost
him dearly.  A bit of laser ortillery to soften the ground, an unexpected
landing in the current  winter season (ie no daylight, and really frigid
weather), killer artillery strikes using the starship's as observer,
harrassment
fire, coupled with faked emission's and "failed attack's"  to draw out the
defender's to the killing zones - properly planned, and with just some
cheap, second-hand TL 15 electronic decoy's and faker's, this could
play out very nice.

Referee's Section:

The referee should give careful thought regarding the defender's.
They don't have grav tank's or a starship at their disposal - but they
do have one or two hidden missile bay's, 50 miles from the base, and several
beam pointer's in a variety of sites, as well as around a dozen
grav vehicles, including a few armoured grav APC's, complete with fusion
gun.

The  base itself does not exist as a supply & training point at all - it's
a ship trap, to lure merc's to a ground landing, so the ship's
transporting them can be crippled, and unable to make lift-off - if not
actually blown to scrap.   If the ship's are successfully destroyed or
crippled,
the defender's will kill who they can catch, then leave, destroying their
base and it's food stores: they have succeded in their mission, and
Sammy's Army is temporarily marooned.  If they have no heat, they will die.

The leader's of the base know that there are only two or three mercenary
group's
Gammite Corp deal's with - and the most likely one to be used against
the base is Sammy's Army.  They have a fair understanding on how Sammy
Noolan work's (rumour, stories, mercenary news articles, etc),  and have
planned
accordingly.

Yes, Sammy, there *is* something out there that can whup you.  Hard.

Sammy is a smart, fast-acting ground commander: he may yet pull
a victory from defeat.  It's more likely though, that he will struggle to
capture
the base, suffering expensive lossed (men and equipment) only to see an
unexpected relief force snatch the defender's away.  The attack's on the
Sarodandto facility continue, and - with Sammy's Army
repositioned to help in the defence of Sarodandto - Gammite will begin
negotiation's with the attacker's.

If Sammy's Army surrender's, it will be accepted:
The Army keep's their lives in the cold and the dark, but lose their
equipment as part of the term's of surrender (how much of their
equipment depend's on negotiation's.)

If the ship's are crippled, but still capable of lift-off, there will be a
struggle
over ownership of the base.  The personnel on the base have limited
counter-battery fire (four light laser turrent's): there is also
a few mortar's available.  They will fight hard and well (they are half
veteran,
half elite).  If they believe there's a reasonable chance of victory,
they will fight on, even to the last man.

If the local base is nearing defeat , their main base, over 200 km distant,
will
send grav transport to retrieve personnel from the local base,
it is not tasked to engage Sammy's Army, unless necessary: the
main goal is to pick up the base's people.  If this fail's, the base will
surrender.  The main base is very well hidden,consisting of over 2,000
men on craggy highlands: the "mountain's" are actually made of ice.
Sammy's Army could take the place, but it's unlikely: the defender's here
are just as professional as at the smaller base, and will use their TL15
equipment, the highland's, and their numerous grav vechiles to good
effect.

However, the power's behind the base don't want a fight to the finish:
the cost in good men and equipment needed to defeat Sammy's Army
is greater than they are willing to pay, and they would be quite aware of
the
Chief's unexpected victory at the smaller base.  Here, it's more likely that
the base will negotiate with Sammy or the world's government, and arrange a
peaceful pullout.  The attack's on the Sarodandto facility will end, and
Sammy's Army pull's off a remarkable victory, and get's a nice bonus, too!

Aside's

Note: Sammy's Army is very loose when it comes to rank.  There is no
formal ranking system, but there is an unoffical division of Chief (Noonan),
Officer (commander's) and Men (everyone else).  The uniform code is
also rather light, mainly consisting of a black silk scarf and a unit patch
of
a black fist on a black circle, with both fist and circle outlined in gold
(riflemen,
artillery, and the Chief) or silver (everyone else).

If you place Sammy's Army in the Spinward Marches, over a third of the
men are actually Vargr: Sammy Noonan has charisma and confidence
to spare.

If you want to make the mission more easier - and give the player's a real
chance
of victory - you can lower the Tech Level of the defender's, or eliminate
the
main base.  If you want to give a really goood wupping, increase the
level of anti-ship fire, and give the defender's some small meson artillery
pieces.
Also, provide the main base with 4 or so fighter/bomber's.   And pity your
player's,
especially when they realise that the Cold is coming on, there's nothing
to eat, and they had better learn to navigate by the star's very quickly,
as that's all they can see.

I have deliberately been vague on which organization Sammy's Army is
fighting
against, or if the defender's are corporate, national troop's or part of a
noble household.  They are definitely professional, working against Gammite
Corp
on this world, and well-funded.  They are not Imperial - if they were,
Sammy's Army
would probably have to flee the Imperium - quickly - for daring to challange
Imperial authority.

Alvin Plummer
"You are not Superman; Marines and fighter pilots take note."
                   - from Murphy's Law's of Combat Operation's

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:08:44 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: BITS announces 101 Religions

*101 Religions*, the lastest product from the CORE Development Group was
released by BITS at GenCon UK 98, and should be making its way into the
distribution chains as we speak. Overseas customers should be able to
obtain copies from Leisure Games in London...

101 Religions covers a variety of religions (corresponding to the URP code
groupings), each with a description, referee's section, and plot hooks.
Includes Gabreelism, the Aslan Shrine of Heroes, the RCCS, and many more
from the 19 authors.

ISBN 1-901228-08-8
BITS 1998
Price around 5.00 GBP

- -----

If anyone impartial wants to post a review, please do so!

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:16:29 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: OT: Good GURPS Art

While this doesn't apply to Traveller, I've finally seen a GURPS product
with good artwork!  Yesterday my FLGS got in a couple of copies of GURPS:
Discworld while I was there.  I thumbed through the book having no idea
what it was about, and was astounded by the quality of the Artwork!  Simply
put it's the best I've seen in ANY of my numerous volumes of GURPS books.
I was so stunned by this, that I bought the book, this is the first time
artwork has sold a book to me!

We can only hope that GURPS: Traveller has as good of artwork!  I just took
a look at the web page, and see they have the cover shot up.  Very cool,
very classic!  I can't wait for this product.  I'm also axiously awaiting
"Behind the Claw"!

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:04:24 -0600
From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
Subject: A few notes on structure

- --View mono-spaced--

There has been some discussion on the TML recently about structural
strength of various design options. I present below an extremely simplified
discussion of self-loading of structures. Many people find this topic
difficult because in order to get any useful results you need to know the
structure size and construction and the material strengths and sizes. All
these values effect the relationships so no 'base case' exists.

The diagrams below use arbitrary size units and structure units. The
relation of size to structure is abstract and represent no real world case.
They are presented simply to demonstrate principle, not application.

Structure at the point of application of the main thrust supports its own
weight (mass * thrust) _and_ the weight of all structure 'beyond' it. Thus
the most massive structure is found at the point of application of the main
thrust.

If you wish to scale up a design, the new section should be added at and
sized for the point of application of the main thrust. For example, in the
design of buildings, additional floors are added at the base and sized to
support all the existing floors.

Of course, contra-gravity and inertial compensation render all of this
irrelevant. They apparently cancel accelerating forces, so structures can
be built to any size without concern for self-loading. This in turn
suggests that thruster plates act upon space outside the ship, which brings
up a whole other group of considerations which i might address in a future
post.

//'parallel' and 'perpedicular' refer to load bearing of structure \\
\\  relative to applied force unless otherwise stated.             //

| Structural unit in parallel diagram
- - Structural unit in perpendicular diagram
* Point of application of main thrust

Structure Parallel to Main Thrust (columns)
(note: these diagrams have no horizontal component)
All examples are 7 units high.
      ___                    ___
      | |         2   2      | |
     || ||        4   4     || ||
    ||| |||       6   6    ||| |||
   |||| ||||      8   8   |||| ||||
  ||||| |||||    10   6   *||| |||*
 |||||| ||||||   12   4     || ||         /\
||||||| |||||||  14   2      | |          /\
    * --- *                  ---         main
  56 structure          32 structure    thrust


Structure Perpendicular to Main Thrust (beams)
(note: these diagrams have no vertical component)
All examples are 14 units wide.

- --------------  14  --------------
 ------------   12  ------  ------
  ----------    10  -----    -----
   --------      8  ----      ----      14 --------------
    ------       6  ---        ---      10  -----  -----
     ----        4  --          --       6   ---    ---        /\
      --         2  -            -       2    -      -         /\
      **            *            *            *      *        main
 56 structure        56 structure           32 structure     thrust


A spaceship intended to land on planets which has decks oriented parallel
to its main thrust axis must be designed to receive main thrust on two
distinct axis 90 degrees from each other: the ship's drive in space and
gravity on planet. This is certainly doable and needn't even require large
amounts of additional structure in particularly clever designs where
structural requirements are allowed to dictate form.

A spaceship intended to land on planets which has decks oriented
perpendicular to its main thrust axis must allow for points of application
for the landing gear (if it lands on ground, not water). This restricts it
more towards the 56 structure layout in the parallel diagrams than the 32
structure layout.

Spaceships which land on planets have more stringent structural
requirements than those which never leave microgravity. Therefore, a
distinct separation of function is likely.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #804
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 8 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 805



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

TL11 Tramp freighter
Re: final comment on Deck orientation
Re: A few notes on structure
Vilani gender division of labour (was Imperial Women)
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #800
Planets
Re: Honourable behaviour...
Re: Orangs and Gibbons
Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourablebehaviour...]
Traveller Chat: Now In THX with Surround Soud
Re: Banks novels (was Re: Cheap Energy In Traveller)
RE: OT: Good GURPS Art
Re: OT: Good GURPS Art
Re: GDW CDROM
AUCTION: GDW SF/Traveller Boardgames
Re: IMTU:  Amber & Red Zones - social only?)
Re:  MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
Re: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:17:08 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: TL11 Tramp freighter

I have fixed a bunch of bugs in my SSDS program, as well as adding a few
features, like ships troops and small craft. Now, only a bunch of details
remain to be fixed, but the current designs are useable. Below is a
freighter I designed with the program. I have also created a HTML-creation
function that I use to create HTML files of the ships I desing. These can
be found at   http://spacejens.ml.org/traveller/ships/

If anyone wants the program, please e-mail me. As I am not completely
finished, I will not put it on my website. I made the program in C, and it
is not platform specific (although I compile it to run under Linux).
Currently, the hulls datafile is not complete, and the program lacks
support for hulls larger than 5000 tons, something which must be fixed.


*****************   Designed with the Standard Ship Design System
*Tramp freighter*   Version number 2.25
*****************   Designer: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm

Techlevel: 11
Price: 140.703 MCr

Hull: Box, 200 tons, 21.3 meters (streamlined)
Cargo hold: 35.0
   Hatches: 1
Passengers high: 4
           low : 10
Jumpdrive range: 2 parsecs
Maneuverdrives:
  Thruster plates              : 1.1 Gs
Controls: Dynamic linked standard

Total crew: 2
  Captain              : 1
  2nd in command       : 1

Armor    : 10
Structure: 9
Sensors  : 1A 2P 0J
Size code: 8

4 laser turrets with a master gunner (FC 3) and no separate gunners - 4,2,1,0

Powerplant capacity: 250 MW

The fuel tank can contain 41.79 tons of fuel
A jump consumes 20.00 tons per parsec
Using the normal powerplants requires 1.79 tons per year
The ship has a fuel scoop capacity of 138.51 tons per hour
The purification plants can refine 50 tons in 6 hours

The following crew and passenger accomodations are available:
  10 low berths
  2 small staterooms
  4 large staterooms

The ship has standard life support and 2 airlocks
The inertial compensators can handle 2 Gs. All acceleration is compensated
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment: The ship was designed to be used as a PC ship, and it is only
TL11 because of this. I mean to use this ship as 'Old Faithful', a worn
but still working (somewhat) freighter, owned by a couple of desperate
luck-seekers (smells of PCs long way ;-)

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:51:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: final comment on Deck orientation

In mail you write:

> What six things? 100 years ago flying, the internet, space exploration,
> antibiotics, nuclear weapons, processed foods were impossible. Times and
> technology change.  As to moot, i meant pointless.  
>   Space is three dimensional. The segmented can would be a waste of
> money.  As to the list of authors (except brin and robinson) can you
> name someone prominent you who made a movie post star trek? Most of the
> authors you quoted wrote while space is still a dream.

Sorry, but movies are *not* a good source for technical details. That's
the *last* thing on the mind of the producer and director. They want
"looks neat" even if it's phsyically impossible.

>   And finally,  the space shuttle is perp for three minutes out of a 12
> day mission. It doesn't land the way it takes off.  A segmented shuttle
> is costly and worthless.  But I do agree with one thing. Its your TU.  I
> prefer realism over coolness. 

Sorry, but if you are using *movies* as your standard, you prefer
"coolness" to realism, regardless of what you *think* your preferences
are.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:16:38 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: A few notes on structure

>From: "Gordon Horne" <ghorne@shaw.wave.ca>
>Subject: A few notes on structure
...
>Spaceships which land on planets have more stringent structural
>requirements than those which never leave microgravity. Therefore, a
>distinct separation of function is likely.

  Quite true, and this is already reflected in CT: High Guard, as a custom
200-ton Trader hull can vary in price by as much as MCr 14 before architects
fees and truly dubious design practices - which tend to favour non-streamlined
hulls to begin with.

  What owner wouldn't want the same cargo haulage ability (if not quite
the same performance profile) with a financing schedule based on a savings
of around MCr 10?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:16:34 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Vilani gender division of labour (was Imperial Women)

>From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: 1) Imperial Women 
...
>feminine.  Since the Vilani evolved for 300,000 years on an entirely
>different planet I would expect *great* differences between our ideas
>about men and women and theirs. 
...

  Here's a question - apparently hunter-gatherer humans divided food-
gathering responsibilities along the lines of "males go hunt, females
gather nuts, berries, and cook". We can assume that the Ancients (esp.
given the Droynes own funky gender divisions) didn't give much of a damn
beyond mere functionality as to which humans did what.

  So, who among the Vilani did the Ancients mostly instruct in the
arts of food-preparation?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:41:32 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

alvin plummer wrote:

> Yes, I am STILL stunned by these words.
> 
> Honestly, has this mercenary actually BEEN anywhere?  Has he
> even left his homeworld?  What is his expected lifespan, anyway?
> 
> I just had to build an adventure: military types,  please correct
> where appropriate, so we can learn to do it right.

WOW! Did I inspire this. I've got to do this more often then. To answer
your questions, and add some comments:

        No. No. Uncertain at this time but expecting grandfather status
in due time.

        The onset of this, as you know, was the comment that I read as
allowing TAS to classify any world as Red Zone even if it was at the
whim of the Imperium or some other Megacorporation who -probably- would
have -paid- for the -service-. I disagreed and still do that this would
be allowed under TAS except as further defined by Eris. Eris, of course,
responded to my comments and as it turned out, we were pretty much in
agreement when all was said and done. I did read and discard your
previous like comment. I find it hard to really believe that you were
truly -stunned- by the words, however, as I think your adventure story
has much merit, may I ask for the privilage of using your copyright
adventure IMTW. I know some players who would fill the bill of Sammy and
who already have the ego to go along with it.

[snipped a great adventure idea, but saved for the Library, thanks.]

All the best,

        James (Jim) Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:01:33 +0100
From: Julia and Chris <julia-and-chris@compute-ability.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #800

In message <199809060027.UAA19217@phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM>, Traveller-
digest <owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com> writes
>
>Alvin Plummer wrote :-
>
>> Extract from http://www.crossover.com/~costik/inttrav.html
>>
>> "The smallest power plant which may be installed on a ship in
>> Traveller is a standard "A" power plan. The A-plant can consume
>> 20 tons of hydrogen over a period of a week, convert it to energy,
>> and feed it to an "A" FTL drive. (This is how much energy is needed
>> by the smallest FTL drive to make a jump of 1 parsec if installed in
>> a 200 ton ship.) If we assume Miller is using metric tons (1 ton =
>> 1,000 kg), 
... But one ton is a DISPLACEMENT ton - 13.5 metres cubed - look at the
weight of most ships, far greater than 1,000kg / displacement ton

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:55:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Planets

In mail you write:

> How many here are
> familiar with Alberto Manguel's and Gianni Guadalupi's work
> _The_Dictionary_of_Imaginary_Places_? It's a magnificent work which details
> places in fiction. Their criteria was that the place had to potentially
> exist on Earth. Therefore, Burroughs' Mars, for example, was excluded. (I
> received my copy as a reward for academic excellence in grade 7. The same
> teacher taught us to play Dungeons and Dragons: we had an hour on Friday
> afternoons to play.) Who on the list would be interested in participating
> in a similar compilation for planets detailed in science fiction? For
> copyright purposes this tome would be restricted to private use and free
> distribution within the group.

Actually, the way copyright works most places, you are violating as
soon as you distribute the material to *anyone*. But on the other hand,
you can get a lot done without violating the author's copyright, at
least in this case.

One thing that might be interesting would be to contact the folks
involved in the various "designed & shared" world projects of the last
30 years. If we could get permission to use the worlds (fairly likely
in most cases) we'd be able to publish some world supplements with
incredible amounts of detail. Not just physical detail, but cultural
and ecological as well.

Then we have prominent fictional planets:

Trenco (E.E. Smith's "Lensman" series)
	Nasty weather, a sensor op's nightmare, nasty animals/planets,
	and a great "drug drug" (thionite).

Nifleheim (H.Beam Piper's "Uller Uprising")
	Fluorine atmosphere
	
Uller (H.Beam Piper's "Uller Uprising")
	Nasty seasons (90 degree axial tilt!) silicon and silicone
	based life. Interesting natives.

??? (H.Beam Piper's "Four Day Planet")
	Planet has a 365 earth day year. Said year is *four* local
	days. Has interesting animals, including an interesting export
	("tallow-wax")

??? (Piper & Kurland, I forget the title)
	Two earthlike planets, orbiting around a common center.
	Interesting native races. And an "arms race".

Mesklin (Hal Clement, "Mission of Gravity")
	*very* large non-gas giant. With an *extreme* rotation rate.
	Local "day" is 17.8 *minutes* (planet is *seriously* oblate).
	Equatorial gravity is 3 g, polar gravity is 800+. Atmosphere is
	hydrogen & methane. I forget whether the oceans are methane or
	ammonia.  Natives are interesting.

Dhawrn (Hal Clement, "Star Light")
	Large planet, surface gravity 40(?) g, lots of ammonia *and*
	water, with temperatures such that most of the possible ammonia
	water combos happen. *Weird* weather and "hydrosphere" effects.
	Being explored by Meslkinites with help from humans.

???? (Hal Clement, "Cycle of Fire")
	Planet orbiting in a double star system. Has *two* native
	races, which take "turns" running the planet when the climate
	is right for them ("hot" season natives take refuge in caves in
	geothermal area, "cold" season natives take refuge in polar ice)

???? (Hal Clement, "Iceworld")
	We don't see much of the planet, as the story has a native of
	it visting Earth (the "iceworld" in the title). The planet has
	an atmosphere of *gaseous* sulfur!

There are a couple more planets from Clement's stories that I just
can't recall enough info about.

"Mars" (Heinlein, "Red Planet", "Stranger in a Strange Land")
	Atmosphere is thin but breathable with personal compressors.
	Icecaps, canals, Martians with "psi" powers.

"Venus" (Heinlein, "Space Cadet")
	Typical hot, swampy Venus from before the probes. Natives are
	amphibious, civilized, more civilized ones have excellent
	mastery of chemistry, but a bit vague on physics.

"Venus" (Heinlein, "Between Planets")
	Another wet, swampy Venus, this one with Dragon-like natives,
	highly skilled in the sciences.

"Venus" (Ray Bradury, various stories)
	Rains *endlessly*. (read the storiesd for some of the effects
	of this, especially *mental* ones!)

"Mercury" (Erik van Lihn, "Battle on Mercury")
	This is the old version of Mercury with one face always towards
	the sun, the other always away from it. Dayside has lakes of
	lead and other metals, colonies are in the "twilight zone". I
	picked the van Lihn story from the many set on such a Mercury
	because he has an interesting native lifeform (based on
	electrical energy). BTW, the colonies use fission reactors
	because fissionables are readily available locally!

Sticking these planets that we *used* to think were in our solar system
into other star systems gives us a chance to recycle some excellent SF
speculation. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:18:26 -0700
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Honourable behaviour...

alvin plummer wrote:


> Both could be considered a manifestation of honour, assuming honour
> is defined as "Personal integrity maintained without legal or other
> obligation". (Webster's, 1984).  Exactly how does the Imperium
> display integrity to its citizen's, an integrity which is not obligated
> legally?

Well, strictly speaking, the Imperium isn't "legally" obligated to do much
for its citizens, other than prevent their enslavement.  They are legally
obligated by treaty with member worlds.

On this subject, I'd quote what Edward de Vere, err, I mean, Shakespeare,
wrote if I could remember it correctly.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:21:59 -0700
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Orangs and Gibbons

Christopher Thrash wrote:


> I know what the canon says, but I've recommended Bonobo chimps as a more
> viable alternative.

Are those the ones that have sex with any and all in close proximity when
they
get stressed, and are amazingly free of violence?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:12:14 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Imperial Intelligence Services [was: Re: Honourablebehaviour...]

At 04:31 PM 9/6/98 -0700, you wrote:

>Think about it like this, why send in an agent when you can have the agent
>come to you...  Many agents are from the are you want to know about... 
>They join up in your service for one reason or another...  Debt, greed,
>hate are all things that would cause the 3I to gain an agent inside the
>enemy camp...

In the Real World, a friendly agent runs a line of contacts, usually from
the safety of the embassy under the cover of 3rd assitant economic attache'.

Sources are handled with a variety of methods.. sex, money, revenge, moral
outrage; all can be used to get someone to betray their secrets.  The
advantage of this is that the actually spy is a citizen of the target
country, the worst the target can do is expel the handler, and another will
slip in within weeks.

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:50:58 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Traveller Chat: Now In THX with Surround Soud

Hello Folks!

After a few weeks hiatus due to the impact of reality, Traveller Chat 
is back.

This Week's Topic:
The Meshing of local politics and Imperial politics: Adventure 
Seeds, and Discussion.

See you there:
Thursday, September 10th.  9:00 PM EDT, 6:00 PM PDT.
Undernet
#traveller

The Food and Drug Administration has determined that failure to 
consume 3 grams of Traveller Chat per week may result in 
premature failure of the spleen.

No, really.  You might have missed it in all the curiosity about 
Viagra, but it happened, really. <G>

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:22:19 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: Re: Banks novels (was Re: Cheap Energy In Traveller)

On: Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:41:34 PST
you write:
>
>> Examples of fiction set in energy rich universes include John
Varley's
>> 'Ophiuchi Hotline' and the Culture novels of Iain Banks : 'Consider
>> Phlebas', 'The Player of Games', 'Use of Weapons', and 'Excession'.
>
>Is that the order of the books? 

I think that's the order of publication (I know that Excession is the
latest of the 4, but a friend of mine has told me that there's a new one
out), but it doesn't really matter which order you read them in -
they're all independent

Andy

================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
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						o=International
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United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:27:06 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: RE: OT: Good GURPS Art

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:16:29 -0800, Zane H. Healy <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> Subject: 
> 
> While this doesn't apply to Traveller, I've finally seen a GURPS product
> with good artwork!  Yesterday my FLGS got in a couple of copies of GURPS:
> Discworld while I was there.  I thumbed through the book having no idea
> what it was about, and was astounded by the quality of the Artwork!
Simply
<Snip>

You've never read any Discworld books? Boy, you're lucky! You've got all
those to look forward to. Hurry, rush out and buy a couple right now.
Start with 'the colour of magic' and 'the light fantastic', then go to,
oh, 'wyrd sisters', 'mort' and 'witches abroad'

Andy

================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
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PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
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United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 23:34:03 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Good GURPS Art

At 11:16 AM 9/7/1998 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>While this doesn't apply to Traveller, I've finally seen a GURPS product
>with good artwork!  Yesterday my FLGS got in a couple of copies of GURPS:
>Discworld while I was there.  I thumbed through the book having no idea
>what it was about, and was astounded by the quality of the Artwork!  Simply
>put it's the best I've seen in ANY of my numerous volumes of GURPS books.
>I was so stunned by this, that I bought the book, this is the first time
>artwork has sold a book to me!
>
>We can only hope that GURPS: Traveller has as good of artwork!  I just took
>a look at the web page, and see they have the cover shot up.  Very cool,
>very classic!  I can't wait for this product.  I'm also axiously awaiting
>"Behind the Claw"!

I just got back from Dragoncon today.  Loren Wiseman was there, and said
that one of the things he made sure to do was get good artists.  He said
that Rob Caswell is one of the artists for G:T.  He also said in the panel
on Traveller at SJG, that he felt his biggest contribution to Traveller was
hiring Bill Keith in the early 80's.

They were hoping to get G:T in at the con, but the covers weren't dry
enough to be bound in time, but they had a copy of the book and Saturday
got some of the covers.  Picture the little black box cover, all grown up.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:09:00 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: GDW CDROM

> Do you know how much it will cost? 

	I can't say, but I wouldn't honestly expect too cheap even with all volunteer
work.

> How can I help? 

	Scanning, proofing are mostly needed now. Later will be HTML and PDF work
(though a couple of books have been done in those forms).
	Don't expect the work to be easy though, so far it's taken everybody a lot of
time between dealing with real life and similar events.

Bryan


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:56:59 -0700
From: Joel Pratt <jpratt@ucla.edu>
Subject: AUCTION: GDW SF/Traveller Boardgames

AUCTION: GDW SF/Traveller Boardgames
Featuring: Striker 1ed., Azhanti High Lightning, Bloodtree Rebellion,
Invasion Earth

1) Email all bids to jpratt@ucla.edu
2) Purchaser pays ALL shipping charges (USPS Priority or Global Priority).
3) American funds only, please, as check or money order.
4) Items will be held until check clears.
5) Bidding will continue until price stops rising. Going/Goingx2/Gone.
6) Email me (jpratt@ucla.edu) if you have any questions.
7) All items are in Excellent to Near Mint condition unless otherwise noted
8) Frequent status updates will be emailed to bidders, usually 2-3x/week.
9) No trades, buy-outs, or group bids.
10) Tie bids will be settled by a coin-toss.
11) Thanks for looking.


BLOODTREE REBELLION
* Superb game of guerrila combat
* Complete, excellent condition, punched
(Minimum Bid: $12)

BELTER
* Complete, excellent condition, punched
(Minimum Bid: $10)

DOUBLE STAR
* Two planets go to war
* Complete, unpunched, excellent condition
(Minimym Bid: $12)

TRIPLANETARY
* Classic
* Complete, near-mint condition, mapboard unused
* Unpunched, contains die, unused original grease pencil
(Minimum Bid: $12)

ASTEROID
* Series 120 Edition
* Complete, punched, very good condition
(Mimimum Bid: $10)

SNAPSHOT
* Series 120 Edition
* Complete, punched, very good condition
(Mimimum Bid: $10)

IMPERIUM
* Second Edition (1990)
* Complete, excellent condition, punched
(Minimum Bid: $9)

INVASION EARTH
* Complete, excellent condition, punched
(Minimum Bid: $20)

STRIKER (First Edition)
* Contains Book 1/Book 2/Book 3 and charts
* Excellent Condition
(Minimum Bid: $20)

AZHANTI HIGH LIGHTNING
* Box is beat-up, with water damage and one split corner
* Components are in excellent shape
* Punched, two sets of counters (don't ask)
Minimum Bid: $35

FIFTH FRONTIER WAR
* Box is in good shape, with one split corner
* Components are in excellent shape
* Punched, ships are in sorted tray
Minimum Bid: $35

- --Joel Pratt
jpratt@ucla.edu

"Bill Clinton does not have the moral fiber to be a mass murderer."
 -- Nobel Peace Prize recipient Dr. Henry Kissinger, Spring 1997

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 06:33:28 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IMTU:  Amber & Red Zones - social only?)

IMTU, the zones are both social and hazard warnings.  The major power 
IMTU is just coming out of an 8,000 year Long Night, and the last war 
that ushered in that LN made use of many horrific weapons, Nuclear, 
Biological, and Chemical, as well as lots of conventional weapons.  Lots 
of worlds are still dangerous just due to the remnants of these weapons.  
So, there is plenty of zoning going on.  There is no TAS, but the Scout 
services are responsible for taking care of zoning.



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:00:01 -0500 
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re:  MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???

Phil Kitching posted:

>>Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:03:37 +0100
>>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
>>
>>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
>>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?
>>
>>
>The Librarian career should make an interesting change from all
>those military types and Vilani Chefs
>
>:-)

Just don't say the "M" word!!!  ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:10:23 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???

> >>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
> >>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?
I think Traveller- the silly era might have something on Oranges and 
Ribbons....
Rob B

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:47:34 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

Jim Cooper Said;
>        The onset of this, as you know, was the comment that I read as
>allowing TAS to classify any world as Red Zone even if it was at the
>whim of the Imperium or some other Megacorporation who -probably- would
>have -paid- for the -service-. I disagreed and still do that this would
>be allowed under TAS except as further defined by Eris. Eris, of course,
>responded to my comments and as it turned out, we were pretty much in
>agreement when all was said and done.

There is one canon example of this from the Traveller Adventure; Tukera has
had their family estate on Lewis in the Aramis Subsector placed under
Imperial Interdiction, thereby classifying it as a Red Zone.  It seems
that, when Tukera was down on its luck, it sold off a bit of Lewis for
colonization.  When times improved the colonists were asked to leave and
refused.  Now the Megacorp is attempting to "starve" them out by
inderticting all off world trade.  The colony lives on, however.

Of course, the Tukera family has a special exemption to the interdiction
and can come and go as they please.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #805
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 8 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 806



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: More comments on the Stillwell
Racial design philosophies
Re: 1) Apology
Re: Planets
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: Spinward Marches 
Re: OT: Good GURPS Art
Re: Banks novels
Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Red Zones, Lewis/Aramis
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: Traveller Chat: Now In THX with Surround Soud
Re: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #785
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: OT: Good GURPS Art
1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging
Re: Racial design philosophies
Celebrities in the 3d Imperium?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:09:50 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

Alvin Plummer said;
>Sammy's Army is mainly a battalion of leg infrantry (about 700 men), with
>an artillery arm of 12 light howitzer's (six projectile gun's,
>three laser, three meson)

A Couple of nits.

"Leg Infantry" seems to imply that these soldiers walk to the battlefield.
Have they no vehicles at all?  If they do, they are either mechanized,
airmobile, or lift infantry.  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
"leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, aside from those in the
Starship Troopers movie (and they should have been "Mobile Infantry" if
they'd done the armor right).

A "howitzer" is a medium velocity indirect fire projectile weapon.  There
may be some discussion of using the term generically for light artillery,
but I would say that you want to call the meson weapons "meson artillery"
and the lasers "vehicle mounted lasers" or "antivehicle lasers" rather than
"howitzers" or even "artillery".

Artillery acts in a support role for which lasers are not precisely suited.
Lasers can't do indirect fire you see.  Meson weapons don't technically do
indirect fire either, but their ability to shoot *through* intervening
matter replaces this drawback quite efficiently.

It would make perfect sense for the lasers to be "air defense battery" for
the artillery company, or perhaps the battalion's "Tank Destroyer" section
if there really are no other heavy weapons in the unit.

By the way, have recent rules made "meson artillery" than can be called
"light"?  Striker (I) had a meson artillery piece that cost in Mcr and
destroyed everything in a certain area up to 1000km away or so.  hardly
light.  I thought other versions followed that example.

Otherwise, and anyway, a nice piece of work.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:58:43 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> There is one canon example of this from the Traveller Adventure; Tukera has
> had their family estate on Lewis in the Aramis Subsector placed under
> Imperial Interdiction, thereby classifying it as a Red Zone.  It seems
> that, when Tukera was down on its luck, it sold off a bit of Lewis for
> colonization.  When times improved the colonists were asked to leave and
> refused.  Now the Megacorp is attempting to "starve" them out by
> inderticting all off world trade.  The colony lives on, however.
> 
> Of course, the Tukera family has a special exemption to the interdiction
> and can come and go as they please.
> 
Unfortunately, I do not own a copy of the Traveller Adventure, darn it. 

Be that as it may, and in spite of the fact that that is still current
practice in a lot of places on current Terra, IMV it does not make it
right nor should it in game terms.

If in fact that is the practice and the -rule- then what I inferred
about the -value- of the TAS zoning would still stand. It may or may not
be true. Therefore an extremely adventurous individual or group might
take it upon themselves to investigate, just to make sure. If it brings
up 40 gazillion Imperial Battlecruisers then it was nice knowing you. If
it is not then he/she/they may just find something useful and of great
value, like in the adventure above.

I also read your other response to AP and agree, especially your last
line.

Jim C

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:12:44 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: More comments on the Stillwell

>>Weaponry
>> 2xLaser Turret (+0) 1/2-0-0-0 [2,100/15-7-4-2] (LR /Ar:40 [200])
>> 2xMissile Turret Auto 1/4 ( /Mag:15 /MFD:500,000km /Ar:0 [20])
>> w/16 Cmd DL 1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
>> 2xParticle Accelerator (+4) 2/0-0-0-0 [1,100/0-0-0-0] (LR /Ar:0 [20])
>
>What is the megajoulage and range of the PAWs ?
>
>Ian Whitchurch


Hmmm...that would have been a good thing for the spreadsheet to have
included on the summary sheet, wouldn't it?

I'll dig it out when I get home tonight.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:26:03 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Racial design philosophies

Has anyone done any work on the different ship design philosophies for the
different major races?  I know the K'Kree are into large spaces, but what
about the other major races?

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 1) Apology

- ---Eris Reddoch <eris@gulf.net> wrote:

> >No, no, they take you to the highport, and shuttle you over to the
> >parking orbit they stick all that stuff in. "That hunk of junk is
> >yours...."
> 
> Ho! Ho! Ho! My players are going to *love* you, Leonard. ;->

HISS!!!!! As a ref, I like the idea. As one of Eris's players
however....
 
> Unfortunately, that could be some weeks, PBEM's move slowly and
> I've been waiting for the group to decide if they want to buy a
> cargo or not for a couple of weeks now.  Under a minute of game
> time has passed in two weeks...yawn!  They better get a move on, or
> I'm going to throw another round of Mooks at them. ;->

Hey, I'm working on that! <g> Look for private mail on that subject.

Terry
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:53:12 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Planets

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Planets
...
>Then we have prominent fictional planets:
...
>??? (Piper & Kurland, I forget the title)
>	Two earthlike planets, orbiting around a common center.
>	Interesting native races. And an "arms race".

  "First Cycle" (?)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:37:07 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

In a message dated 9/8/98 8:18:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pbrenton@mit.edu
writes:

<<  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
 "leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, >>

Light Infantry units in the US Army , at least as of 1988 (7th Light at Fort
Ord, 10th Mountain at Ft. Drum, a couple of others I can't recall) and the 2nd
Div in Korea was more or less leg (some mech)  I think the light infantry
divisions were converted to Mech a few years back though.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:51:54 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Spinward Marches 

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> wrote:

>> It's called the Spinward Marches Campaign.  It is a supplement for Traveller
>> (Classic) that has the Spinward Marches supplement, Citizens of the Imperium
>> in it.  A detailed history of the 5th Frontier War as well as some military
>> units and corporations in the Spinward Marches.  Lots of great background
>> data and adventure ideas.  Cool pictures of Imperial Battle Dress are the
>> coolest thing, to me!
>
>When was this published?  Are you sure you're not talking about the Traveller
>Adventure?

1985, by GDW - 49 pages long and quite a good book. And no, it isn't the
Traveller Adventure...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:45:32 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Good GURPS Art

>>We can only hope that GURPS: Traveller has as good of artwork!  I just took
>>a look at the web page, and see they have the cover shot up.  Very cool,
>>very classic!  I can't wait for this product.  I'm also axiously awaiting
>>"Behind the Claw"!
>
>I just got back from Dragoncon today.  Loren Wiseman was there, and said
>that one of the things he made sure to do was get good artists.  He said
>that Rob Caswell is one of the artists for G:T.  He also said in the panel
>on Traveller at SJG, that he felt his biggest contribution to Traveller was
>hiring Bill Keith in the early 80's.

Loren got us some photocopies of the rulebook proofs for use at the demos
BITS ran at GenCon UK 98. It looked excellent, and the advertising posters
were very CT ish. We didn't see the cover though...

The UPP conversion rules are there, as were rules for converting from
previous editions. I am really looking forward to seeing this. The referee
(Richard Mawhinney) who read the book and converted the generic GURPS stuff
he'd written in less than a day and a half was very impressed, and said
there were interesting sections on why Traveller had been written the way
it was.

We were quite shocked seeing a well put together, professionally
illustrated Traveller book after seeing the stuff IG put out.... we could
have sold a large number of copies too, if we had them.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:39:16 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Banks novels

Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> wrote:
>>> the Culture novels of Iain Banks : 'Consider
>>> Phlebas', 'The Player of Games', 'Use of Weapons', and 'Excession'.
>>Is that the order of the books?
>
>I think that's the order of publication (I know that Excession is the
>latest of the 4, but a friend of mine has told me that there's a new one
>out), but it doesn't really matter which order you read them in -
>they're all independent

"Inversions" is the fifth - albeit disguised - Culture novel. Order wise,
"Excession" follows "Consider Phlebas".

There are a few good sites on Banks - some you can get to off my website
(sorry, feeling too lazy to check the URL).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:55:29 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Traveller Deckplans Webring

All this discussion about starship designs, paralell deck vs
perpendicular decks, etc, just made me have to take action.

Announcing the Traveller Deckplans Webring. Intended as a supplement
to the Traveller Webring and the Traveller Gearhead Webring, this
webring will provide easy access to sites owned by people who
believe, as I do, that a Traveller starship just ain't a starship without
the Deckplans!

I have some favorite sites in mind that I hope will join, but any site
bearing at a least one deck plan is welcome to participate. All rules
sets of Traveller are welcome as well.

If you would like your site listed on the Traveller Deckplans Webring,
please email me at smithw@hartwick.edu . Once I have the requisite
five sites, you should see this webring listed on Webring's site.

Note that I don't intend this as a replacement or competitor to the
Traveller Webring (being a proud member myself) - just as a more
convenient way for ship designers to work together and for deckplan
afficianados to find the plans that make the starships real.


Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:09:50 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

>In a message dated 9/8/98 8:18:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pbrenton@mit.edu
>writes:
>
><<  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
> "leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, >>
>
>Light Infantry units in the US Army , at least as of 1988 (7th Light at Fort
>Ord, 10th Mountain at Ft. Drum, a couple of others I can't recall) and the 2nd
>Div in Korea was more or less leg (some mech)  I think the light infantry
>divisions were converted to Mech a few years back though.

I guess by "leg" I imagine a unit with a TO&E that does not have enough of
its own vehicles - be they HMMWVs, 3/4 ton trucks, helicopters,
motorcycles, or school busses - to transport its combat personnel.

The U.S. 10th Mountain Division, while specially trained in operations in
rough terrain and/or in winter conditions where foot is sometimes the only
option, still has transport to get it to the mountains and hence is not
"leg" infantry according to my interpretation.  I wouldn't necessarily call
it "mechanized" either though.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 98 22:34:51 +0100
From: Fred Hood <Fred@cetaganda.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Red Zones, Lewis/Aramis

Peter H. Brenton said:
>There is one canon example of [a red zone] this from the Traveller Adventure; 
Tukera has
>had their family estate on Lewis in the Aramis Subsector placed under
>Imperial Interdiction, thereby classifying it as a Red Zone.  It seems
>that, when Tukera was down on its luck, it sold off a bit of Lewis for
>colonization.  When times improved the colonists were asked to leave and
>refused.  Now the Megacorp is attempting to "starve" them out by
>inderticting all off world trade.  The colony lives on, however.

I think that the red zoning Lewis may also have something to do with 
their acting as a pirate haven. To quote from the AHL rules booklet: 
"Arriving at Lewis/Aramis in 1090, the Loathsome Reverie was responding 
to an appeal by the Duke of Regina from several shipping lines [but 
perhaps not Tukera, pure coincidence of course] that their trade was 
being raided by pirates under the guise of trade regulation and tariffs. 
Once there, however, the locals proved quite polite and proper, welcoming 
the ship and its crew to their small world and isolated cities."
There ensues a boarding attempt  while the pirates attempt to take out 
the cruiser's powerplant.

The above certainly implies a naval interdiction, which Tukera may be 
able to  work their way around using their considerable Imperial 
connections.

Fred.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:22:02 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

At 11:09 AM 9/8/98 -0400, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

>"Leg Infantry" seems to imply that these soldiers walk to the battlefield.
>Have they no vehicles at all?  If they do, they are either mechanized,
>airmobile, or lift infantry.  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
>"leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, aside from those in the
>Starship Troopers movie (and they should have been "Mobile Infantry" if
>they'd done the armor right).

25th Infantry Division (Light), Schofield Barracks, HI
7th Infantry Division (Light), Ft. Lewis, WA
10th Infantry Division (Mountain), Ft. Drumm, NY
82nd Airborne Division, Ft. Bragg, NC
2nd Infantry Divison, Republic of Korea

These units represent half of the infantry strength of the United States
Army.  The two light IDs have no rganic armor or artillery, and very few
vehicles of any kind.  The 82nd has artillery, but just decommisioned it's
single armor battalion.

Soviet Class III divisions were more tan 75% leg-mobile, some even still
had horse drawn wagons!  Every (smart) army maintains leg forces, simply
because they are light, tend to be well-versed in the infantry arts (not
having to waste all that time working in the motor pool on the %@#!!
tracks), and cheap to equip.

- --

+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:34:11 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Chat: Now In THX with Surround Soud

At 05:50 PM 9/7/98 -7, Stu wrote:

>The Food and Drug Administration has determined that failure to 
>consume 3 grams of Traveller Chat per week may result in 
>premature failure of the spleen.

You mean it *wasn't* Hodgkins' Lymphoma?

If I had only known!

- --


*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
)   Douglas E. Berry              dberry@hooked.net     (
(       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html        )
)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(
( A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than    )
) any invention in human history--with the possible     (
( exceptions of handguns and tequila.                   )
)      Mitch Ratcliffe, Technology Review, April 1992   (
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:27:31 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???

At 07:10 AM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> >>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
>> >>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?

>I think Traveller- the silly era might have something on Oranges and 
>Ribbons....

Not unless those pages got tired of waiting for me to do it and updated
themselves.

Of all my work, I think the thought of T:TSE becoming an AI disturbs me the
most.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:51:34 -0500
From: Andy <jhereg@southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #785

<< Ed Jenkins (DustyLV769@aol.com) writes:
 
 > Please take this as the serious non-judgemental question that it is?
 > Is there ANYTHING you would fight and die for?
 
	There are a number of things I would fight for if I had to.  Fighting in
that context implies the possibility of death (to me.)   The number of
things I would fight for knowing in advance I will die is much smaller.  I
think most people if they are honest would be willing to fight & die for
their immediate family.  For me he latter category would include family, a
few very close friends, and my country if I thought the fight was right.   

							Andy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:18:10 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

At 05:09 PM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:

>I guess by "leg" I imagine a unit with a TO&E that does not have enough of
>its own vehicles - be they HMMWVs, 3/4 ton trucks, helicopters,
>motorcycles, or school busses - to transport its combat personnel.
>
>The U.S. 10th Mountain Division, while specially trained in operations in
>rough terrain and/or in winter conditions where foot is sometimes the only
>option, still has transport to get it to the mountains and hence is not
>"leg" infantry according to my interpretation.  I wouldn't necessarily call
>it "mechanized" either though.

According the Army, a leg division is one that lacks suffcient armored
vehicles for transporting it's own strength.  Even the venerable M-113A2
offers a good amount of protection for troops.

Also, a mech division will have a large number of tanks, almost as many as
an armored division.

The bottom line is that leg units are dependant on higher commands for any
in-theater transportation.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Re: OT: Good GURPS Art

Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net> says,

>I just got back from Dragoncon today.  Loren Wiseman was there, and said
>that one of the things he made sure to do was get good artists.
[snip]
>They were hoping to get G:T in at the con, but the covers weren't dry
>enough to be bound in time, but they had a copy of the book and Saturday
>got some of the covers.  Picture the little black box cover, all grown up.

Woohoo! I'll be getting my contributor's copies soon :)

Hoping my (sadly few) illustrations for G:T and _Behind the Claw_ are
sufficiently "Travelleresque" for everyone...

Best,

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
 `The idea of using rocks as kinetic weapons is not a new one.'
                    -- John Maddox Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:34:28 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:41:32 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

>...as I think your adventure story
>has much merit, may I ask for the privilage of using your copyright
>adventure IMTW. I know some players who would fill the bill of Sammy and
>who already have the ego to go along with it.

Absolutely, use it and modify it as you wish.  If anyone want's to take my
outline and work with it/publish it/modify it/play a game based on it, go
right
ahead - just tag me as the original author/influence of the adventure.
And Jeff Z., you can clip and save too, if you wish!

*********************************

>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:47:34 -0400
>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

>Jim Cooper Said;
>>        The onset of this, as you know, was the comment that I read as
>>allowing TAS to classify any world as Red Zone even if it was at the
>>whim of the Imperium or some other Megacorporation who -probably- would
>>have -paid- for the -service-. I disagreed and still do that this would
>>be allowed under TAS except as further defined by Eris. Eris, of course,
>>responded to my comments and as it turned out, we were pretty much in
>>agreement when all was said and done.
>There is one canon example of this from the Traveller Adventure; Tukera has
>had their family estate on Lewis in the Aramis Subsector placed under
>Imperial Interdiction, thereby classifying it as a Red Zone.  It seems
>that, when Tukera was down on its luck, it sold off a bit of Lewis for
>colonization.  When times improved the colonists were asked to leave and
>refused.  Now the Megacorp is attempting to "starve" them out by
>inderticting all off world trade.  The colony lives on, however.

This show's the limit's of family power and the incredible cheapness of
the Tukera line.  No, the Tukera family - despite being among the wealthest
sentinent's in history - can't simply arrange for the colony to be killed off,
or even hire a mercenary crew to grab everyone and hustle them on transport's
for the nearest low-pop world. ["A deal IS a deal!"]  On the other hand, I'm
sure that the local's would leave if Tukera waved a few MCr under noses,
which they refuse to do.  Even a simple guarantee of lifetime employment
at a comfortable yearly rate would be enough to get nearly everyone packing.

The Tukera's are willing to write off trillion's of credit's per year on bad loan's,
 but not willing to part with a credit to buy out a contract.  Amazing. Even more
amazing is the fact that the Imperium is willing to spend at least ten's of
MCr every year to succur Tukera's wounded pride - I hope the subsector
Duchess extracted some JUICY compensation for this "small favour".

*************************

Ever wondered just how much stuff get's tossed out of the airlock, usually
just before the system police/naval inspection cutter comes along?
Or the junk naval ship's are alway's shedding?  Or the heaving, ancient
starship's that give up the ghost in the Back of Beyond?

Well, that's a lot of stuff! I'm wondering if there isn't a good market for
scavenger's in the Traveller universe.  Certainly some kind of living could
be made from the thousand year's of junk orbiting Capital/Core/Core, or
any high-pop class A starport for that matter.

(Never mind the interesting machinery hanging around Naval bases...)

 Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 20:07:06 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies

Douglas Glatz wrote:
> 
> Has anyone done any work on the different ship design philosophies for the
> different major races?  I know the K'Kree are into large spaces, but what
> about the other major races?
> 
> douglas
> 
I'll limit my response to the various branches of humaniti....

IIRC, the Solomani have always been fans of the honkin' big spinal
mount, which helped during the Interstellar Wars (especially once they
introduced the meson gun).  OTOH, the Vilani were (at the time of the
Interstellar Wars) fond of impressive missile armaments.  (BTW, my own
[Milieu 1100] designs betray my Solomani origins, with impressive spinal
particle accelerator mounts being nearly signature items....)  ;-)

3d Imperium designs are fairly balanced, reflecting their joint
Solomani-Vilani heritage.  Spinal mounts still seem to dominate,
however.

The only Zhodani designs I've seen have been from Milieu 1100, which
cannot be considered as "pure" Zhodani ships, since, like the Vilani
"attack cruiser", Zhodani ships of this era likely display some features
of their foes' vessels.  It would be interesting to speculate about what
a "pure" Zhodani design would feature....

> E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
> http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
> IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
> The early bird gets the worm, BUT
>    the second mouse gets the cheese!

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:54:01 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Celebrities in the 3d Imperium?

Having just watched Mark McGwire hit Number 62 [BOOO-yeah!] set me to
wondering:

What kind of celebrities are there in the 3d Imperium?  _Are_ there any,
in the 20th Century meaning of the word?

After all, on many Imperial worlds (and most worlds in the Imperial
Core), the communication net is at least as fast as the one here on
Terra in the last decade of the 20th Century.  OTOH, news between worlds
travels only at the speed of travel.

Overall, what does this dichotomy do to the "Cult of Celebrity" that
seems to be such a part of (our branch of) humaniti?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #806
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 9 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 807



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Racial design philosophies
Re: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging 
The TL 8 freighter challange
Lost my notes
Expanded Starship Encounters
US light forces (was Re: "Der ain't nuttin'..."
Re: [TTL] The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Planets
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Celebrities in the 3d Imperium?
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Moderator needed for mailing list
Re: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging
RE: Expanded Starship Encounters
Re: Celebrities in the Reformation Coalition?
Re: Racial design philosophies

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:01:57 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies

> From:          "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
> Date:          Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:26:03 -0700
>
> Has anyone done any work on the different ship design philosophies for the
> different major races?  I know the K'Kree are into large spaces, but what
> about the other major races?

Quick & dirty alien design philosophies:

   Hiver:   blocky
   Aslan:   bubbly
   Zhodani: wedgie
   Vargr:   stripes and protrusions
   Vilani:  boring
   k'kree:  big discs with dirt


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:15:47 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging 

> >There is one canon example of this from the Traveller Adventure; Tukera has
> >had their family estate on Lewis in the Aramis Subsector placed under
> >Imperial Interdiction, thereby classifying it as a Red Zone.  It seems
> >that, when Tukera was down on its luck, it sold off a bit of Lewis for
> >colonization.  When times improved the colonists were asked to leave and
> >refused.  Now the Megacorp is attempting to "starve" them out by
> >inderticting all off world trade.  The colony lives on, however.
> 
> This show's the limit's of family power and the incredible cheapness of
> the Tukera line.  No, the Tukera family - despite being among the wealthest
> sentinent's in history - can't simply arrange for the colony to be killed
> off,
> or even hire a mercenary crew to grab everyone and hustle them on
> transport's
> for the nearest low-pop world. ["A deal IS a deal!"]  On the other hand, I'm
> sure that the local's would leave if Tukera waved a few MCr under noses,
> which they refuse to do.  Even a simple guarantee of lifetime employment
> at a comfortable yearly rate would be enough to get nearly everyone packing.

Not according to Traveller Adventure.  Tukera's got a standing offer to buy 
out *ANY* place on Lewis, just about *NAME* your price.  The colonials *ain't* 
selling for love nor money.  They consider Lewis their *HOME* and no punk 
aristo is gonna put them off *their* land.

And just killing them off with mercs or whatever is out too.  The Imperium 
takes a dim view on genocide unless *THEY'RE* doing the killing.

> The Tukera's are willing to write off trillion's of credit's per year on bad
> loan's,
>  but not willing to part with a credit to buy out a contract.  Amazing.
> Even more
> amazing is the fact that the Imperium is willing to spend at least ten's of
> MCr every year to succur Tukera's wounded pride - I hope the subsector
> Duchess extracted some JUICY compensation for this "small favour".

Doesn't matter how much you offer, the Lewis colonists ain't selling.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:24:06 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: The TL 8 freighter challange

Okay, so peole claim that its economically viable to build a freighter which can 
support interplanetary travel at TL 8 without fusion rockets, so here's the 
challange. There is a mining colony on a Jovian moon which needs a freighter 
to ferry crew and supplies.

The specifications:

Distance from main system to gas giant = 600,000,000 km (a lttile less than 
Earth to Jupiter when in conjuction)

Allowable technology = TL 8 with the exception of no fusion rockets (note Low 
berths are TL 9).

Round trip time = 2 years (the ship may be refueled at the mining colony, 
external fuel tanks [armour - 10] may be used, but fresh tanks are not available 
at the colony ie no drop tanks). Fresh fission cores are available at the colony.

Payload = 20 passengers and 20 Td of cargo.

Budget = MCr 3,000 per ship

Attention must be paid to physical and psychological health of passengers and 
crew. (extended periods in zero-g and confinement). The ship is only required 
to travel from orbit to orbit. The ship is required to carry ore on the inward leg 
and supplies on the outward leg (ie cargo bay is always full).

I will be very interested to see what people come up with. I'll be seeing what I 
can produce. To achieve the trip time, you need to aim for a final velocity of 
around 15-18km/s. Then when this has been done, we could try and figure out 
what would be so darn valuable that you could afford to pay your workforce to 
do nothing for 2 years :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:56:08 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Lost my notes

hi all, a few days ago someone was kind enough to post a site that 
had a spreadsheet for TNE ship design.  Could that person or someone 
who knows please let me have it again?  Thanks in advance

Rob B

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:47:03 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Expanded Starship Encounters

I'm not sure on the rules for posting message attachments on the TML, 
but I have a greatly expanded system encounter chart using ship 
designs found on the webring I would be happy to pass on.  It gives 
either 30 or 40 possibilities for each catagory instead of the usual 
8 or 9.  If you would like a copy, please email me direct and I will 
send it to you.
Rob B

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 05:37:18 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: US light forces (was Re: "Der ain't nuttin'..."

>
>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:37:07 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
>
>In a message dated 9/8/98 8:18:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pbrenton@mit.edu
>writes:
>
><<  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
> "leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, >>
>
>Light Infantry units in the US Army , at least as of 1988 (7th Light at Fort
>Ord, 10th Mountain at Ft. Drum, a couple of others I can't recall) and the
2nd
>Div in Korea was more or less leg (some mech)  I think the light infantry
>divisions were converted to Mech a few years back though.
>

The 10th Mountain Division (Light) (NY and AK) and 25th Infantry Division
(Light) (HI and WA) are both currently in service.  2d ID is more heavily
mechanized now, but still includes light infantry elements due to the
terrain in Korea. (7th ID(L) stood down, Doug - the Manchus at Ft. Lewis
are part of 25th ID(L)).

Argueably, the 82d Airborne Division and the 101st Airborne Division (Air
Assault) are both "leg infantry" once delivered to the battlefield - I
didn't see the beginning of this thread to know whether this is relevant.

And don't forget the (2+) USMC divisions, which are still only partially
mechanized (by design).

Out of about 13 division-equivalents in the US forces, at least 6 are
"light", primarily foot-mobile infantry.

>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:09:50 -0400
>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
>
>I guess by "leg" I imagine a unit with a TO&E that does not have enough of
>its own vehicles - be they HMMWVs, 3/4 ton trucks, helicopters,
>motorcycles, or school busses - to transport its combat personnel.
>

The term you're looking for (as opposed to "leg") is "motorized".

>The U.S. 10th Mountain Division, while specially trained in operations in
>rough terrain and/or in winter conditions where foot is sometimes the only
>option, still has transport to get it to the mountains and hence is not
>"leg" infantry according to my interpretation.  I wouldn't necessarily call
>it "mechanized" either though.
>

In this you are incorrect.  10th Mountain Division does not have sufficient
organic capacity to move even one brigade at a time, which hardly qualifies
it as "motorized".  It is "leg" infantry by design:  

There are no vehicles at the company level. Most of the (24 or so?  I don't
have the TO&E here) vehicles at the battalion level are specialized, like
the 4 TOW-carriers in the anti-tank platoon. At the division level, there
are two UH-60 companies (enough to lift two companies of infantry, if
they're all working) and a motor transport company in the DISCOM (which
primarily moves supplies, not personnel).  The DIVARTY has 5-ton trucks for
towing their howitzers, but again not for moving infantry.

Vehicles to move the 10th Mountain (or the 25th ID(L)) have to come from Corps.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:56:24 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [TTL] The TL 8 freighter challange

From:           	"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Date sent:      	Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:24:06 +1200

> I will be very interested to see what people come up with. I'll be seeing what I 
> can produce. To achieve the trip time, you need to aim for a final velocity of 
> around 15-18km/s.

I've just rechecked my figures. I'm slightly wrong. The final velocity is a fraction 
over 19.1km/s

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:52:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planets

In mail you write:

>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>Subject: Planets
> ...
>>Then we have prominent fictional planets:
> ...
>>??? (Piper & Kurland, I forget the title)
>>       Two earthlike planets, orbiting around a common center.
>>       Interesting native races. And an "arms race".
>
>   "First Cycle" (?)

Yep, that's it!

BTW, there is at least one other story set in the same sort of setup
(this one by Blish), and I suspect that either it was Campbell handing
out story ideas he'd like to see developed, or some other sort "hand
several authors the same background and see what happens" scenario.

Oh yeah, there's a *lovely* planet in one of James White's "Sector
General" novels. The one that's got the continent sized life forms.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:20:52 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Okay, so peole claim that its economically viable to build a freighter which can
> support interplanetary travel at TL 8 without fusion rockets, so here's the
> challange. There is a mining colony on a Jovian moon which needs a freighter
> to ferry crew and supplies.
>
> The specifications:
>
> Distance from main system to gas giant = 600,000,000 km (a lttile less than
> Earth to Jupiter when in conjuction)
>
> Allowable technology = TL 8 with the exception of no fusion rockets (note Low
> berths are TL 9).
>
> Round trip time = 2 years (the ship may be refueled at the mining colony,
> external fuel tanks [armour - 10] may be used, but fresh tanks are not available
> at the colony ie no drop tanks). Fresh fission cores are available at the colony.
>
> Payload = 20 passengers and 20 Td of cargo.
>
> Budget = MCr 3,000 per ship
>
> Attention must be paid to physical and psychological health of passengers and
> crew. (extended periods in zero-g and confinement). The ship is only required
> to travel from orbit to orbit. The ship is required to carry ore on the inward leg
> and supplies on the outward leg (ie cargo bay is always full).

Well, this seems to require a spin hab for the passengers.  I also suspect some sort
of biopod would be necessary.  This biopod could be detatched at the destination to
help start the colony.  It would then be replaced with ore for the trip back.

>
>
> I will be very interested to see what people come up with. I'll be seeing what I
> can produce. To achieve the trip time, you need to aim for a final velocity of
> around 15-18km/s. Then when this has been done, we could try and figure out
> what would be so darn valuable that you could afford to pay your workforce to
> do nothing for 2 years :*>
>

Well, for the first year, people can be training for life at their destination.
Likewise, maintaining a biopod requires some work.  People could still
telecommute.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:40:21 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Okay, so peole claim that its economically viable to build a freighter which can
> support interplanetary travel at TL 8 without fusion rockets, so here's the
> challange. There is a mining colony on a Jovian moon which needs a freighter
> to ferry crew and supplies.
>
> The specifications:
>
> Distance from main system to gas giant = 600,000,000 km (a lttile less than
> Earth to Jupiter when in conjuction)
>

Ignoring gravity and assuming a zero velocity at both ends (this is a big assumption
and probably false), you need about 0.00248 m/s/s acceleration.  At TL 8, there are
three options: Rockets which fling the ship at the gas giant but cannot be refueled
there. Ion drives which slowly accelerate you to the gas giant and can be refueled
there.  Solar sails which VERY slowly get you there with no fuel problems.

A rocket has a nice boost, but it is really short duration and is unlikely to get you
there in a year as most of the time you're coasting.  Once you get there, there's no
reliable means of refueling.  I suppose they could use hydrogen fuel but I think the
thrust/mass ratio will be a problem.  I'll leave this to others to calculate.

Including fuel for the trip and a fission plant to power it, Ion drives cannot produce
the needed acceleration.  The engines and fuel would take up 102% of the ship's mass.
If you toy with the end vectors like allowing the ship to low orbit the gas giant at
high speed and give it a booster at each end, a very small payload could be managed.
Also, if the time allotment was increased, it might be possible.

A solar sail can only manage 0.001 m/s/s acceleration in the habital zone.  Much less
as you move out from the sun.  Thus solar sails can't manage the trip in the one year
time alotment.

>
> Allowable technology = TL 8 with the exception of no fusion rockets (note Low
> berths are TL 9).
>
> Round trip time = 2 years (the ship may be refueled at the mining colony,
> external fuel tanks [armour - 10] may be used, but fresh tanks are not available
> at the colony ie no drop tanks). Fresh fission cores are available at the colony.
>
> Payload = 20 passengers and 20 Td of cargo.
>

Note that a regenerative bioplex requires about 20 Td per person.  You'd need this to
handle the year (or two) in space.

>
> Budget = MCr 3,000 per ship
>
> Attention must be paid to physical and psychological health of passengers and
> crew. (extended periods in zero-g and confinement).

For starters, you'd have to test them in a home facility (like on the moon) for a year
to see if they can take it. If you use a spin hab, you can slowly adjust the rotation
to acclimate the subjects to their new home gravity.

> The ship is only required
> to travel from orbit to orbit. The ship is required to carry ore on the inward leg
> and supplies on the outward leg (ie cargo bay is always full).

How fast can the ship be travelling at the gas giant end of the trip?

>
>
> I will be very interested to see what people come up with. I'll be seeing what I
> can produce. To achieve the trip time, you need to aim for a final velocity of
> around 15-18km/s. Then when this has been done, we could try and figure out
> what would be so darn valuable that you could afford to pay your workforce to
> do nothing for 2 years :*>

It seems to me that this is a technological impossibility at TL 8.  How many years did
it take for voyager to reach Jupiter?  Close to 2 years and neither Voyager had to
slow down nor make provisions for life support.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Celebrities in the 3d Imperium?

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Black ICE wrote:
> 
> What kind of celebrities are there in the 3d Imperium?  _Are_ there any,
> in the 20th Century meaning of the word?

The very existence of MegaCorps implies that there is some crossover in
the consumer tastes of different star systems. Also, the idea of having an
interstellar government involves a certain degree of shared culture. I
have always assumed that this applied to entertainment as well. Some
celebrities on Earth make the leap to become international stars, even if
their films might not make it to the foreign markets immediately.
Similarly, some celebrities would make the transition in Traveller to
become interstellar names, even if their holovids take weeks or months to
reach the far away systems.

In the sense of other kinds of celebrity, canon says there are at least
some: the Royalty!

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:25:35 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

>
> > Okay, so peole claim that its economically viable to build a freighter which can
> > support interplanetary travel at TL 8 without fusion rockets, so here's the
> > challange. There is a mining colony on a Jovian moon which needs a freighter
> > to ferry crew and supplies.
> >
> > The specifications:
> >
> > Distance from main system to gas giant = 600,000,000 km (a lttile less than
> > Earth to Jupiter when in conjuction)
> >
>
> Ignoring gravity and assuming a zero velocity at both ends (this is a big assumption
> and probably false), you need about 0.00248 m/s/s acceleration.

Continuing my investigation...
If your end velocity is about 1.336 km/s this will give you an orbit about 100 km above
Jupiter.  This will kick you around the other side for your return trip in about 46
hours.  Hopefully that's enough time to dump your passengers and grab your cargo.  If not,
four days later you've got another window.  I'm not sure what the magnetic fields or
radiation will do to everyone, but at that distance, collecting ionizates/hydrogen
shouldn't be too difficult.

A similar trick can be done Earthside.  Booster rockets can be used to get the ship going
with a nice initial velocity.  These boosters can be recollected and used to catch the
lower mass (no fuel) ship on the return like a catcher's mitt.

Converting the moon into a giant mass driver could do a similar  trick.  The magnetic
coils could accelerate the ship to Jupiter while decelerating it on the return.  Of course
you don't want to miss...  For that matter, continuous use of the moon could cause it to
destabilize and fall out of orbit.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:50:00 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@tansoft.com>
Subject: Moderator needed for mailing list

Due to work demands, Sean Reynolds, the moderator for the Greyhawk Mailing
list
is having to step back.  Any one interested in assuming his role should
contact
him at:

skreyn@wizards.com

Thanks for the interruption.

Rob
http://www.mpgn.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:20:39 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging

alvin plummer wrote:

> Absolutely, use it and modify it as you wish.  If anyone want's to take my
> outline and work with it/publish it/modify it/play a game based on it, go
> right
> ahead - just tag me as the original author/influence of the adventure.

I thank you Sir. 'Twill be done. 

> This show's the limit's of family power and the incredible cheapness of
> the Tukera line.  No, the Tukera family - despite being among the wealthest
> sentinent's in history - can't simply arrange for the colony to be killed
> off,
> or even hire a mercenary crew to grab everyone and hustle them on
> transport's
> for the nearest low-pop world. ["A deal IS a deal!"]  On the other hand, I'm
> sure that the local's would leave if Tukera waved a few MCr under noses,
> which they refuse to do.  Even a simple guarantee of lifetime employment
> at a comfortable yearly rate would be enough to get nearly everyone packing.
> The Tukera's are willing to write off trillion's of credit's per year on bad
> loan's,
>  but not willing to part with a credit to buy out a contract.  Amazing.
> Even more
> amazing is the fact that the Imperium is willing to spend at least ten's of
> MCr every year to succur Tukera's wounded pride - I hope the subsector
> Duchess extracted some JUICY compensation for this "small favour".

Is this all basic -canon- or only your view of what is probable?
Although most everyone would welcome a guaranteed lifetime employment
eespecially at a comfortable annual income, I'm not sure that nearly
everyone would jump to the piper. Now I could allow that those of
Lewis/Aramis might do so   IF   they were all pirates (the buyout would
probably be better than they could hope to attain over their lifetime),
but that is not what AHL indicated as the Commander of Loathesome
Reverie only sought out and destroyed the actual pirate base. It would
seem that the balance of the world's population are/were quite content
to stay where they were and could not be bought off at any price.


> Ever wondered just how much stuff get's tossed out of the airlock, usually
> just before the system police/naval inspection cutter comes along?
> Or the junk naval ship's are alway's shedding?  Or the heaving, ancient
> starship's that give up the ghost in the Back of Beyond?
> 
> Well, that's a lot of stuff! I'm wondering if there isn't a good market for
> scavenger's in the Traveller universe.  Certainly some kind of living could
> be made from the thousand year's of junk orbiting Capital/Core/Core, or
> any high-pop class A starport for that matter.
> 
> (Never mind the interesting machinery hanging around Naval bases...)
 
Yes. And that would be something TNS would report on with fair
regularity IMO, overdue/lost ships with details, reports of
sightings/findings, world chastisement/initiatives to clean up debris in
and around starports causing hazards to the travelling/shipping cliental
. Anyone know of any (new) such items that have not made the news
lately, especially spinward of the Marches a sector or two or three?

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:00 -0700
From: "Dean A.Cook" <wolv@powernet.net>
Subject: RE: Expanded Starship Encounters

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDDBF1.9EA29BA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes Rob I would like that info on ships .If you like I could send you info on
the Safari ship if you don't have it. Thanks

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Robert Biggar Iii [SMTP:rwb@tc.fluke.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 3:47 AM
To:	trav
Subject:	Expanded Starship Encounters

I'm not sure on the rules for posting message attachments on the TML, 
but I have a greatly expanded system encounter chart using ship 
designs found on the webring I would be happy to pass on.  It gives 
either 30 or 40 possibilities for each catagory instead of the usual 
8 or 9.  If you would like a copy, please email me direct and I will 
send it to you.
Rob B



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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDDBF1.9EA29BA0--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:21:04 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Celebrities in the Reformation Coalition?

In the TNE infonet project (compiling and creating more Coalinfonet articles)
coordinated by Derek Stanley (and available on Lewis Robert's BARD pages),
there was a rave band known as "Dulinor the Black and the Stormtroopers of
Illelish."  The list appears pretty slow so i'll post the CIN entry.  It's
quite amusing. : )  Celebrity ends up being bad for Mr Whiskus, since some
Ithklur try to aprehend "the fugitive Dulinor," causing a riot and force him
to cancel the "Genocide Tour."  But that's another CIN article. : )

COALINFONET, CLASS: NEWSREPORT, DISTRIBUTION: ENT/GEN, AUTHORITY
CIN/FIJAYANKERMON SPORTSPLEX, YANKERMON, FIJA (0434/AUBAINE, D553754-A),
01/IX/1201 KEYWORDS: DULINOR THE BLACK, MUSICAL TRENDS, RAVE

	Dulinor the Black, accompanied by his entourage, ascended the stage of the
Yankermon Sportsplex to the cheers of a massed audience of over fifteen
thousand screaming supporters.  Sporting his customary tousled hairstyle, and
clad in his ceremonial toga, Strephon's assassin hailed the crowd as strains
of "The Clarion," the Ilelish Federation anthem, thundered throughout the
darkened arena.  As he coolly surveyed the massed thousands below, the would-
be Emperor has but one question to pose to his loyal followers arrayed below:
"YANKERMON, ARE YOU READY TO RAVE?!"
	No, it's not a nightmare returned from a dark and discredited era, it's
Fija's newest pop sensation: Dulinor the Black and the Stormtroopers of
Ilelish.  Known mainly for it's frontman, Dulinor the Black (the former Ned
Whiskus, who bears and uncanny resemblance to the former Imperial leader), the
band claims preeminence as the leader of a new Fijan musical movement known as
"Rave."
	Rave, which centers on the unusual, the iconoclastic, and the outrageous,
appears to have taken over Fijan youth culture almost overnight.  "It's as if
something was just waiting about in and embryonic stage," declared Dr. D.D.
Demented, a prominent music critic and commentator of the Fijan cultural
scene, "Poof! Just add water, and there it was."
	If the ultimate aim of Rave is to shock, then last night's performance
certainly achieved it.  The set, which lasted approximately 90 minutes
alternated between blasts of cacophonic music punctuated by chants from
Dulinor of "Crash Lucan!" and "I did it for the Good of all Humanity!," and an
elaborate tableau acted out by Dulinor and his bandmates.  Giant screens
placed strategically about the auditorium broadcast cleverly edited speeches
by the real Dulinor, which often drowned out the ranting coming from the
stage.  Sound limits sampled from inside the building exceeded safety limits
for human hearing at least twice, prompting Enos Weatherby, leader of the
Parents' League for Fijan Decency to denounce the event as a, "dastardly sonic
attack on our vulnerable youth!"
	One concert-goer, interviewed after the event, summed up the music in this
way; "It's a bit bland, but its got a good beat, and you can dance to it."

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:21:02 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies

> Has anyone done any work on the different ship design philosophies for the
> different major races?  I know the K'Kree are into large spaces, but what
> about the other major races?

I wrote this awhile back:

As far as making alien ships alien in concept, i'd see there's two general
categories of ship design.  These would center on the offensive-defensive
balance rather than new and different technologies and on specialization vs
generalized multi-purpose ships. 
   I'd see the philosophy of the 3I (due to Vilani influences) to be a 50/50
offensive-defensive oriented balance.  I see the Solomani (and Vargr) to have
offensive capabilities at the cost of defensive, though there'd be notable
exceptions for the Solomani (dedicated PD craft... ala AEGIS cruisers,etc).
Defensive heavy designs would be amongst the Hivers.

- - The Solomani decidedly offensive oriented. Heavy on firepower, remainder
averaged on armor and screens and light on point defense (though there would
be dedicated ships along the lines of Aegis cruisers, etc).  There would be
many specialized attack and defensive roles as well as some ships with very
short legs (heavily dependant on logistics and auxillaries).

- -The Vilani are conservative and somewhat bland (no offense to any Vilani
fans).  They design ships according to the standards of the Ziru Sirka,
millenia ago.  "Functional, but un-aesthetic." Perfectly average on
attack/defense orientation, armor, screens, and pd.  Really generalized multi-
purpose ships.

The Zhos.  Don't have a whole lot of Zho designs to draw on.  Their ships
should be pretty well balanced on an attack/defense sense, but with
specialized designs (especially to try and take advantage of their psionic
abilites)... ala the abilities of psi's in B5.

Aslan ships would seemingly be obviously attack oriented but in a generalized
multipurpose sense (the females would fund no less).  Heavy on firepower,
balancing the remainder appropriately amongst screens, armor, and point
defense.

Hivers, being the "courageously challenged" sophonts they are would be on a
defensive orientation.  Good speed and fuel (probably always extra jump
tankage for escape jumps, etc) endurance.  Heavy on armor, screens and pd.
Specialized designs (exploration, Ithklur attack-heavy ships, unassuming
traders, maybe some jump-warbot type schemes).

K'kree designs well balanced and generalized in purpose.  Unremarkable except
for their size. They've historically been slow in adapting to starflight and
are very conservative.  The K'kee can't use isolated turrets so could be heavy
on offensive capable pd (fired remotely)

The Vargr, being Vargr, would vary wildly according to the whims of designers,
governments, and purchasing parties.  Wildly specialized designs with an edge
on offense...er Charisma.  : )

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #807
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 10 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 808



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
Re: A comment on deck orientation
Re: Racial Design Philosophies
Re: Racial design philosophies
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Orangs and Gibbons
Imperial Women
1)  Re: Racial design philosophies 2) Lewis
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:51:52 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Joe Pettit wrote:

> >
> > > Okay, so peole claim that its economically viable to build a freighter which can
> > > support interplanetary travel at TL 8 without fusion rockets, so here's the
> > > challange. There is a mining colony on a Jovian moon which needs a freighter
> > > to ferry crew and supplies.
> > >
> > > The specifications:
> > >
> > > Distance from main system to gas giant = 600,000,000 km (a lttile less than
> > > Earth to Jupiter when in conjuction)
> > >
> >
> > Ignoring gravity and assuming a zero velocity at both ends (this is a big assumption
> > and probably false), you need about 0.00248 m/s/s acceleration.
>
> Continuing my investigation...
> If your end velocity is about 1.336 km/s this will give you an orbit about 100 km above
> Jupiter.  This will kick you around the other side for your return trip in about 46
> hours.  Hopefully that's enough time to dump your passengers and grab your cargo.  If not,
> four days later you've got another window.  I'm not sure what the magnetic fields or
> radiation will do to everyone, but at that distance, collecting ionizates/hydrogen
> shouldn't be too difficult.
> [CLIP]
> Converting the moon into a giant mass driver could do a similar  trick.  The magnetic
> coils could accelerate the ship to Jupiter while decelerating it on the return.  Of course
> you don't want to miss...  For that matter, continuous use of the moon could cause it to
> destabilize and fall out of orbit.

After running some calculations...
If you build a mass driver out of the moon and tunnel straight through (I suppose you could
have a surface mounted driver) you can accelerate at 3 G's (30 m/s/s)  for 8 minutes before
leaving the far side of the moon.  I selected 3 G's from a human tolerance standpoint.  At TL
8, G tanks are available.  1 G for normal tolerance + 1 G for workstation + 1 G for G tanks =
3 G's or about 30 m/s/s. This gives you an initial velocity of 14400 m/s.  Combined with the
slingshot around Jupiter, your effective distance for acceleration calculations is nearly cut
in half.  The resulting minimum acceleration for the ship is then 0.000734447 m/s.  This puts
it well into the ion drive range with the drive section (drive, fuel, reactor) taking up
29.316% of the vehicle mass.

Assuming 20 tons per person for regenerating life support X 20 people (I'll subsume the cargo
into the RLS system) = 400 tons.  At 70% of the mass, the ship would be about 570 tons in
mass.  Roughly the same in volume. Thus, we should start with a 600 dT hull or thereabouts.

The launch/retrieval system might be somewhat more expensive :-)

We know the mass of the projectile/ship 600,000 kg
We know the Muzzle velocity: 14400 m/s (note this is technically illegal, at TL 8 max muzzle
velocity is 3000 m/s, but this isn't exactly a mass driver)
The required energy is: 0.0000005MV^2 x 4.5 (TL eff.) = 279.936 Mj [this might be off by a
factor of a million due to a typo]
The HPG is therefore: 34.992 kL for 0.34992 Mcr
Assuming one charge per year (launch one year, catch next year, etc.) a fission reactor would
need to be very small, but the minimum size is 10 KL thus 1 Mcr for the launch reactor.  It
could recharge the HPG's in half a minute 30 seconds.  We could replace this with a solar cell
if need be.
Tunneling through the moon would cost about 203,906 Mcr (a tad bit expensive and by far the
most expensive bit) producing a 3480 km long tunnel 25 m X 25 m.

Reducing the initial velocity to the legal 3000 m/s increases the drive ratio to about 43%.
Required mass would jump to about 800 tons but the launch tunnel gets reduced to 150 Km X 28 m
X 28 m for 11,025 Mcr.  Muzzle energy is greatly reduced as well.

As far as the ship goes, an 800 ton ship would require 350 kL of ion drive costing 4.55 Mcr.
The reactor would be 10.5 kL for 1.05 Mcr.

If we assume a budget for 10 ships, we've got 30,000 Mcr to invest.  Half of that would get
invested into the launch tube.  leaving 1,500 Mcr for each ship.  With the drive section
costing just over 5 Mcr, that leaves a hefty chunk of change for the BIOPLEX section.

The point is that it is technologically impossible to do it from a standing start, but if you
can get a nice starting vector and maintain it at the far end, it becomes quite possible.
That should give everyone a nice starting point for designs (although I seem to have changed
the nature of the problem)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 13:01:15 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."

At 11:09 8/09/98 -0400, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

>"Leg Infantry" seems to imply that these soldiers walk to the battlefield.
>Have they no vehicles at all?  If they do, they are either mechanized,
>airmobile, or lift infantry.  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
>"leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, aside from those in the
>Starship Troopers movie (and they should have been "Mobile Infantry" if
>they'd done the armor right).

I've always been told that mechanized infantry meant that they have APCs or
MICVs, whereas motorized infantry have trucks. Here in New Zealand the
infantry is lucky to be motorized on a good day, because even if the trucks
are avialible the ground is often vehicle proof.
This means you get to enjoy carrying 120+ lbs of gear over some of the most
scenic ground in the world, and it's not nearly so nice up close in the bush.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:01:44 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: A comment on deck orientation

SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade) writes:
>And
>remember, the only difference between an ocean and space is space is
>larger, colder and has gravity. 

Leaving aside vacuum welding, radiation levels, chemical corrosion,
pressure differentials...

>None of the
>known sci-fi authors (movie or otherwise) has designed prep and I doubt
>seriously if TU really existed, AHL would be perp.

Assuming that you ignore Robert A. Heinlein, Arthur C. Clarke, Larry
Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Charles Sheffield, Michael Flynn...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:46:33 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Racial Design Philosophies

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:54:59 -0400, "Douglas Glatz"
<douglas@teleport.COM> wrote:

>Has anyone done any work on the different ship design philosophies for the
>different major races?  I know the K'Kree are into large spaces, but what
>about the other major races?

From memory of canonical material:

Vargr seem to like "spiky" designs - wings swept to a point,
needle and wedge hulls, and so on.

Aslan tend to use flowing designs, with few if any sharp angles.
Often, their ships look like clusters of bubbles; some humans
with no sense of appreciation of design have called them
"blobby".

K'kree like large spaces, and tend not to divide where not
absolutely necessary - and even then, divisions are as minimal as
possible (i.e., if possible, they'll use a curtain instead of a
wall).  Most K'kree ships are domes (half-spheres) with large
displacement (I don't think they have anything crewed as small as
100 dt).

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:09:58 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies

At 17:21 9/09/98 EDT, TravelrTNE wrote:

>- The Solomani decidedly offensive oriented. Heavy on firepower, remainder
>averaged on armor and screens and light on point defense (though there would
>be dedicated ships along the lines of Aegis cruisers, etc).  There would be
>many specialized attack and defensive roles as well as some ships with very
>short legs (heavily dependant on logistics and auxillaries).

I see the Solomani as having ships that are multi-role, but like Gary I
think that they'd have a lot of very specialized defensive and offensive
ships. IMO overall a Solomani task force would be fairly balanced along the
offensive/defensive axis (depending on mission, of course).

>-The Vilani are conservative and somewhat bland (no offense to any Vilani
>fans).  They design ships according to the standards of the Ziru Sirka,
>millenia ago.  "Functional, but un-aesthetic." Perfectly average on
>attack/defense orientation, armor, screens, and pd.  Really generalized
multi-
>purpose ships.

I'd have thought that the Vilani, with their strong specialization by guild
would tend to have quite specialized ships. It seems (to me) that this
would follow "the right man for the job" becomes "the right tool/ship for
the job". I'm not talking about offensive/defensive specialization here,
but in terms of mission specialization.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:20:52 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

At 17:51 9/09/98 -0700, Joe Pettit wrote:

>After running some calculations...
>If you build a mass driver out of the moon and tunnel straight through (I
suppose you
>could have a surface mounted driver) you can accelerate at 3 G's (30
m/s/s)  for 8
>minutes before leaving the far side of the moon.  I selected 3 G's from a
human tolerance
>standpoint.  At TL8, G tanks are available.  1 G for normal tolerance + 1
G for
>workstation + 1 G for G tanks = 3 G's or about 30 m/s/s. This gives you an
initial
>velocity of 14400 m/s.  Combined with the slingshot around Jupiter, your
effective
>distance for acceleration calculations is nearly cut in half.  The
resulting minimum
>acceleration for the ship is then 0.000734447 m/s.  This puts it well into
the ion drive
>range with the drive section (drive, fuel, reactor) taking up 29.316% of
the vehicle
>mass.

Given that the crew won't be doing much during the launch you should be
able to run the acceleration rather higher than that. If the acceleration
was 5G the penalty would be (in TNE/FF&S1) a +2 Diff mod, unpleasant but
not intolerable, given that it would only be for 6m 15s. This would give an
initial velocity of 18800 m/s, a 30% increase.


- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:04:09 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> At 17:51 9/09/98 -0700, Joe Pettit wrote:
>
> >After running some calculations...
> >If you build a mass driver out of the moon and tunnel straight through (I
> suppose you
> >could have a surface mounted driver) you can accelerate at 3 G's (30
> m/s/s)  for 8
> >minutes before leaving the far side of the moon.  I selected 3 G's from a
> human tolerance
> >standpoint.  At TL8, G tanks are available.  1 G for normal tolerance + 1
> G for
> >workstation + 1 G for G tanks = 3 G's or about 30 m/s/s. This gives you an
> initial
> >velocity of 14400 m/s.  Combined with the slingshot around Jupiter, your
> effective
> >distance for acceleration calculations is nearly cut in half.  The
> resulting minimum
> >acceleration for the ship is then 0.000734447 m/s.  This puts it well into
> the ion drive
> >range with the drive section (drive, fuel, reactor) taking up 29.316% of
> the vehicle
> >mass.
>
> Given that the crew won't be doing much during the launch you should be
> able to run the acceleration rather higher than that. If the acceleration
> was 5G the penalty would be (in TNE/FF&S1) a +2 Diff mod, unpleasant but
> not intolerable, given that it would only be for 6m 15s. This would give an
> initial velocity of 18800 m/s, a 30% increase.

I'm glad to see somebody else is following this thread.  I did some further
research and found that appropriate seat inclination helped.  A 30 degree
incline added about 2 G's of tolerance without affecting visibility.  Inclining
to 80 degrees allowed up to 15 G's (that might have been a typo).  Of course
you could shoot the moon and let everyone pass out on the way out.  The crew
doesn't have much to do with the launch, they are afterall just a bullet at
that point.  The trick is keeping them awake during the "controlled crash" that
we're calling the landing.  Its bad enough that they're coming in backwards.

But the real limitation is the TL 15 Mass Driver Muzzle Velocity of 3000 m/s.
We can shorten the tunnel length by accelerating the ship faster, but we can't
get a better muzzle velocity.  So, a 10 G (100 m/s/s) mass driver would
accelerate for 30 seconds.  It's length would still be 45 km.  The whole thing
would be close to 3 Million displacement tons.

My current idea is floating a launch tube at a stable L point (if there is such
a thing).  What inertia is lost from the launching can be regained slowly as
the launch platform falls back into the L point. Some other advantages are
being able to fling other stuff around, like a weapon (shock and surprise).
But since you've got to protect your ship from Jupiter's magnetic field, it
makes sense to use the magnets on this end.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:43:47 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Orangs and Gibbons

Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> types:
>>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
>>Subject: MT Character Generation for Orangs and Gibbons ???
>>Has anyone spent some time developing character generation
>>tables for Orangs and Gibbons?
>For what it's worth, my wife the primate geneticist gonna-be geek (her
>words) says that gibbons are wickedly difficult to work with - they are
>allergic to the gluten in wheat, and thus much more demanding to maintain
>in captivity.
>I know what the canon says, but I've recommended Bonobo chimps as a more
>viable alternative.

    Having just read Sparkle Hayter's "Last of the Manly Men", were Bonobo
chimps played a major role, I'm suggest having Kenji write up those rules.
:-)  I'm not kidding...For more details on the role of sex in the bonobo
society, check this site:

http://soong.club.cc.cmu.edu/~julie/bonobos.html

 >Also, GURPS Uplift has rules for chimp and dolphin characters, but that
>won't help with MT.

    An old JTAS had rules for uplifted Dolphins.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
"Umfriend" - Sexual relationship; "this is Chris, my... um... friend."
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:10:04 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Imperial Women

Ah...the power behind the throne concept...the secret pullers of stings
through the subtle and obvious methods.  A whispered rumor, the well timed
affair, the careful arrangement of seating arrangements...

If you think this is scary, don't consider the alternatives...The FBI
arrested the senior Dons in a Mafia family.  They thought that they had
'killed' the organization.  Wrong!  The wives, sisters, and daughters took
over.  The men were powderpuffs compaired to their women!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:30:33 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: 1)  Re: Racial design philosophies 2) Lewis

>Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:01:57 +0000
>From: edjs@bitslayer.net
>Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies
>
>> From:          "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
>> Date:          Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:26:03 -0700
>>
>> Has anyone done any work on the different ship design philosophies for
the
>> different major races?  I know the K'Kree are into large spaces, but what
>> about the other major races?
>
>Quick & dirty alien design philosophies:
>
>   Hiver:   blocky
>   Aslan:   bubbly
>   Zhodani: wedgie
>   Vargr:   stripes and protrusions
>   Vilani:  boring
>   k'kree:  big discs with dirt
>

Does anyone have ship's from the Droyne?  If I recall correctly, the
ancient's had such radically different design's among themselves
that there is no such thing as a "common Ancient design".

**************************

>Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:21:02 EDT
>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies
<snip>

>Hivers, being the "courageously challenged" sophonts they are would be on a
>defensive orientation.  Good speed and fuel (probably always extra jump
>tankage for escape jumps, etc) endurance.  Heavy on armor, screens and pd.
>Specialized designs (exploration, Ithklur attack-heavy ships, unassuming
>traders, maybe some jump-warbot type schemes).
>
Hiver's aren't really coward's: they are quite satisfied with naval warfare,
for example, and behave with courage in that circumstance.
They just cannot tolerate close-up, short-range fighting.
They could push a button to launch the missiles, but only a very special
(or stark raving mad) Hiver could point a pistol at a fellow HIver and
kill him.

***********************

>Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 01:15:47 -0400
>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging

<snip>

>Not according to Traveller Adventure.  Tukera's got a standing offer to buy
>out *ANY* place on Lewis, just about *NAME* your price.  The colonials
*ain't*
>selling for love nor money.  They consider Lewis their *HOME* and no punk
>aristo is gonna put them off *their* land.

<snip>

>
>Doesn't matter how much you offer, the Lewis colonists ain't selling.
>

Wow.  These folk are determined!  But why?  I'm assuming that
there is no religious/political reason why they MUST stay, and
they do know the value of a credit.

Perhaps I should count "deep attachment to a particular chunk
of real estate" as a religious thing.  Moreover, a goodly large
number of war's - a solid majority, if I have my history right - is
indeed about real estate.

Understood as a battle for wealth, this is within comprehension:
but that's NOT the reason why the Lewis folk choose not to leave,
as they could have as much weath as they wish if they part with
the land.

Someone must introduce them to the Aslan.

>Keven
>
>- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
>                                                     Science-Fiction
Adventure
>                                                     In Reavers' Deep
>

******************

>Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:20:39 -0700
>From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: 1) Wup him! 2) Tukera cheapskates 3) Scavenging
>
>alvin plummer wrote:
>

<snipped my incorrect hypothesis>

>Is this all basic -canon- or only your view of what is probable?

Heh.  Pratically everything I say is only "what is probable".
There ain't no way I can obtain all the Traveller canon there is,
I don't have the real desire to do so, and even if I did, I'd
fool with it to suit what *I* think is interesting/likely/unusual.

Still, having a canon is useful as it help's us communicate
in a common language regarding the Traveller universe, and
my hat's off to the Old Traveller Geezer's.


Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:01:35 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Date sent:      	Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:25:35 -0700
From:           	Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>

> > Ignoring gravity and assuming a zero velocity at both ends (this is a big assumption
> > and probably false), you need about 0.00248 m/s/s acceleration.

My delta-V was still out. Its been pointed out to me that you'd need to bump it 
up to around 25km/s to match orbits with Jupiter.

> Continuing my investigation...
> If your end velocity is about 1.336 km/s this will give you an orbit about 100 km above
> Jupiter.  This will kick you around the other side for your return trip in about 46
> hours.  Hopefully that's enough time to dump your passengers and grab your cargo.  If not,
> four days later you've got another window.  I'm not sure what the magnetic fields or
> radiation will do to everyone, but at that distance, collecting ionizates/hydrogen
> shouldn't be too difficult.

I've assumed that the station at the Jupiter end can supply the neccessary fuel 
(either LHyd or HRF or noble gas) and a new fission core. However I like this 
solution. 46 hours should be enough to dro your load and pick up a new one, I 
don't think you could replace the fission core but thats not a huge problem.

> A similar trick can be done Earthside.  Booster rockets can be used to get the ship going
> with a nice initial velocity.  These boosters can be recollected and used to catch the
> lower mass (no fuel) ship on the return like a catcher's mitt.

I don't know if this is possible, but could you set the thing up to just loop 
endlessly in space? Just get it started, load and unload on its single orbit at 
both ends and keep "topping up" the velocity to deal with planetry mechanics 
and gravitational forces.

> Converting the moon into a giant mass driver could do a similar  trick.  The magnetic
> coils could accelerate the ship to Jupiter while decelerating it on the return.  Of course
> you don't want to miss...  For that matter, continuous use of the moon could cause it to
> destabilize and fall out of orbit.

I'd hate to see the price tag of that mass driver :*> However one should do for 
the whole solar system.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:56:56 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry

 >Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:09:50 -0400
>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: "Der ain't nuttin' out dare what can wup me."
>
>Alvin Plummer said;
>>Sammy's Army is mainly a battalion of leg infrantry (about 700 men), with
>>an artillery arm of 12 light howitzer's (six projectile gun's,
>>three laser, three meson)
>
>A Couple of nits.
>
>"Leg Infantry" seems to imply that these soldiers walk to the battlefield.
>Have they no vehicles at all?  If they do, they are either mechanized,
>airmobile, or lift infantry.  I'd bet that there haven't been any regular
>"leg infantry" units in existance since WWII, aside from those in the
>Starship Troopers movie (and they should have been "Mobile Infantry" if
>they'd done the armor right).


Well, let me clarify myself a bit... "Leg infrantry" as I used it meant that
the
merc's ground forces don't have sufficent organic capasity to transport
themselves to the battlefield, nor do they use armoured vehicles
in combat.  The merc ship's do have their starships, and ship's boat's,
to transport their men to and from their initial position - but the ship's
boat's can't transport the entire company at one run, and even Sammy
will put his starship's in harm's way only when he feel's that the odd's are
on *his* side.

Oftentimes, the folk's who are paying the merc's will provide
sufficent vehicles for transportation, usually civilian or cheap
military vehicles.

<snip>

>Artillery acts in a support role for which lasers are not precisely suited.
>Lasers can't do indirect fire you see.  Meson weapons don't technically do
>indirect fire either, but their ability to shoot *through* intervening
>matter replaces this drawback quite efficiently.


I agree: laser's simply are not indirect weapon's, and can't truthfully
be called artilelry.  Ortillery, on the other hand....

>It would make perfect sense for the lasers to be "air defense battery" for
>the artillery company, or perhaps the battalion's "Tank Destroyer" section
>if there really are no other heavy weapons in the unit.


Yep, the laser's do have their uses.  As for vehicle-mounted heavy
weapon's...

Well, it depend's. My intent was to design a "typical" light company of
mercenaries for the usual jungle/training cadre/garrison
role.  The typical operational area in my mind was sub-saharan Africa,
which is definitely infrantry country.  Also, I want the merc's to be on the
cheap side: the fact that they have three jump-capable ship's with some
ortillery capasity should compensate for the lack of ground vehicle
transportation, in Sammy's mind.

Moreover, I wanted to keep the "tail" of Sammy's Army as short as possible:
tail and expensive equipment mean's expensive cost's, which impact's the
bottom line.  Cutting back on the rear echelon element - usually outsourced
to the employer of Sammy's Army - also gives the employer more bang for
the buck, and increases the "in-country" feel in a way that I like.

I bet you could come up with a situation where Sammy's Army can be made
to suffer for that oversight.  Hey, I did - remember, the ship trap in my
adventure
is designed to kill/cripple the ship's.  If successful, it would nail
Sammy's
major ortillery site, transportation, and home base all at one blow.
A decent, well-handled group of grav tanks's would also ruin Sammy's
whole day, but Sammy is smart enough to take on armour only on *his*
term's - he's arrogant, but definitely not stupid, and when he know's he
can't win, he'll retreat in good order [1].

But most of Sammy's opponent's aren't so wealthy as to afford
high-tech anti-ship weaponry or a company of grav tank's - complete
with major logistic tail, costly crew's and maintenance.  Coupled with the
fact
that most of Sammy's enemies are disadvantaged on wealth,
experience AND technology, and you can see how Sammy has turned
his unit into a daily source of bread and sustenance, enough to afford
three jumpship's, employ about 1000 people total, and still turn a regular
profit.

A greater threat is that the employer can cheat the merc's with poor
support, and increased dependence on the supply lines/local help.
If worst comes to worse, Sammy's Army will have to dig in and
hold position till the ship's come in, fighting on empty bellies and,
of far greater importance, a rapidly declining supply of ammo and fuel
which is NOT being replenished.

>By the way, have recent rules made "meson artillery" than can be called
>"light"?

Hasn't several folk designed meson "rifles"?  Of course, this depend's
on a liberal interpreation of the rules...

>Otherwise, and anyway, a nice piece of work.


I thank you for your kindness.

[1] According to the material I have read, retreating is among the most
difficult thing's to do in wartime.  A commander must have excellent
control - and probably above-average troops - to avoid having a planned
retreat turn into a headlong rout.  Among Sammy's "signatures" is the
use of retreat's to sucker the enemy to over-extending himself, then
*WHAP* his nose in before fading away again.

Second note: the very fact that Sammy can be said to have "signatures"
in his operation's show predictability, and is a sign of growing arrogance
that could be into a real liability in the field.  The main reason he has
been able to get away with it so far is that he rarely campagin's against
the same enemy twice, is still a quick study in the field, stick's to some
simple rules of thumb that has saved his command more than once
(ie "Avoid splitting your command", "Allway's keep a reserve", "Keep the
plan simple and flexible", etc.), and has the confidence of good men.

Alvin Plummer
"Amateur's talk strategy, professional's talk logistic's."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:20:00 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Date sent:              Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:25:35 -0700
> From:                   Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
>
> > > Ignoring gravity and assuming a zero velocity at both ends (this is a big assumption
> > > and probably false), you need about 0.00248 m/s/s acceleration.
>
> My delta-V was still out. Its been pointed out to me that you'd need to bump it
> up to around 25km/s to match orbits with Jupiter.
>

Ick... planetary mechanics... but the Earth and Jupiter are just supposed to sit there :-)
Actually, that may be helpful as you don't need to slow down as much at Jupiter.  Although
slingshotting back to Earth at that velocity would put you inside Jupiter. Then again, Jupiter's
gravity could help slow you down for the trip back. I guess there's a reason why its called
rocket scientist...

I keep running the numbers and I think I might have been off by a factor of 2 someplace (oops)
which cuts usable space way down, but I can't seem to find the error.

>
> > Continuing my investigation...
> > If your end velocity is about 1.336 km/s this will give you an orbit about 100 km above
> > Jupiter.  This will kick you around the other side for your return trip in about 46
> > hours.  Hopefully that's enough time to dump your passengers and grab your cargo.  If not,
> > four days later you've got another window.  I'm not sure what the magnetic fields or
> > radiation will do to everyone, but at that distance, collecting ionizates/hydrogen
> > shouldn't be too difficult.
>
> I've assumed that the station at the Jupiter end can supply the neccessary fuel
> (either LHyd or HRF or noble gas) and a new fission core. However I like this
> solution. 46 hours should be enough to dro your load and pick up a new one, I
> don't think you could replace the fission core but thats not a huge problem.

I've been using a 360 day year for calculations which gives you some nice slop time if you need
a second pass.  Since you come into orbit, cargo won't just drop into Jupiter (unless you
miscalculate). The real trick is getting the reception vehicle to match up in time, location and
velocity when the ship arrives.  Any one of those could scrub the run.

>
>
> > A similar trick can be done Earthside.  Booster rockets can be used to get the ship going
> > with a nice initial velocity.  These boosters can be recollected and used to catch the
> > lower mass (no fuel) ship on the return like a catcher's mitt.
>
> I don't know if this is possible, but could you set the thing up to just loop
> endlessly in space? Just get it started, load and unload on its single orbit at
> both ends and keep "topping up" the velocity to deal with planetry mechanics
> and gravitational forces.
>

I wonder if ships could be left in hot orbits around the Earth or perhaps one of the inner
planets.

>
> > Converting the moon into a giant mass driver could do a similar  trick.  The magnetic
> > coils could accelerate the ship to Jupiter while decelerating it on the return.  Of course
> > you don't want to miss...  For that matter, continuous use of the moon could cause it to
> > destabilize and fall out of orbit.
>
> I'd hate to see the price tag of that mass driver :*> However one should do for
> the whole solar system.

Yep, very pricey.  I'm working on paring it down somewhat.  The best initial velocity we can get
would be 3000 m/s plus Earth's vector (~20.1 km/s).  Jupiter's orbital velocity is about 13 km/s
and orbiting it at 100 km adds another 1.336 km/s.  Assuming best case scenario (unlikely) the
trip there would take about 13% drive section.  In fact, removing the mass driver and relying
strictly on planetary velocities puts the drive section at just over 14%... Hmm... back to the
books...

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #808
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 10 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 809



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Expanded Starship Encounters
Re: Racial design philosophies
Starship encounters oops
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Sammy's Army
The Jannix Cooperative  installment1
[none]
[none]
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
GURPS Traveller update
[G:T] The art gallery
Trade & Commerce Spreadsheet or Program available?
Re: Racial design philosophies
Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Traveller Deckplan Webring
re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:05:30 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Expanded Starship Encounters

>I'm not sure on the rules for posting message attachments on the TML, 
>but I have a greatly expanded system encounter chart using ship 
>designs found on the webring I would be happy to pass on.  It gives 
>either 30 or 40 possibilities for each catagory instead of the usual 
>8 or 9.  If you would like a copy, please email me direct and I will 
>send it to you.
>Rob B
>
>
>would love to have it
Wayne
wewart@pacificcoast.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:12:57 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies

>
>Hivers, being the "courageously challenged" sophonts they are would be on a
>defensive orientation.  Good speed and fuel (probably always extra jump
>tankage for escape jumps, etc) endurance.  Heavy on armor, screens and pd.
>Specialized designs (exploration, Ithklur attack-heavy ships, unassuming
>traders, maybe some jump-warbot type schemes).
>
just remeber this is the race that walk(?) in and took the k'kree homeworld
to make them back off.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:47:57 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Starship encounters oops

Hi all, thanks for all the responses for the chart.  One minor 
problem was I neglected to remove the password before I sent our 
quite a few.  It is "rwb".  Sorry for the inconvienience.
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:51:48 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

>The point is that it is technologically impossible to do it from a standing 
>start

I don't think this is particularly true. GCNTR should be able to do it - 
maybe with some staging, maybe not.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:26:52
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Sammy's Army

>From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
>Subject: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry
>
>Well, it depend's. My intent was to design a "typical" light company of
>mercenaries for the usual jungle/training cadre/garrison
>role.  The typical operational area in my mind was sub-saharan Africa,
>which is definitely infrantry country.  Also, I want the merc's to be on the
>cheap side: the fact that they have three jump-capable ship's with some
>ortillery capasity should compensate for the lack of ground vehicle
>transportation, in Sammy's mind.

Many, many years ago, an amphibious military operation was planned against
the Turks in Albania. Don John of Austria, in charge of the operation,
recommmended they take saddles, bridles, tack and cash - they could buy
horses when they got there, and thus save on transporting them.

Similarly, it might be worth Sammy's mind to take a number of CG modules
and rely on being able to rig them up to appropriate local transport.

>But most of Sammy's opponent's aren't so wealthy as to afford
>high-tech anti-ship weaponry or a company of grav tank's - complete
>with major logistic tail, costly crew's and maintenance.  Coupled with the
>fact
>that most of Sammy's enemies are disadvantaged on wealth,
>experience AND technology, and you can see how Sammy has turned
>his unit into a daily source of bread and sustenance, enough to afford
>three jumpship's, employ about 1000 people total, and still turn a regular
>profit.

Grav tanks are pretty damn cheap in Traveller, at least at with FFS2 grav
plates.

I can easily imagine a TL7 grav tank, designed something like a helicopter
gunship but using contragrav rather than rotors.

Even if you include the cost of importing spare parts (20% of import cost
as per Striker), it is still a good deal.

Sammy's will need expensive electronics to deal with this (eg a Battallion
level Gravitic Sensor to allow proper deployment of the AT detatchment). He
should invest in a EW Company anyway, to allow jamming and spoofing of
enemy commo, and I *really* wouldnt go making war on lo-tech planets
without bringing my own hi-tech field hospital.

>>By the way, have recent rules made "meson artillery" than can be called
>>"light"?
>
>Hasn't several folk designed meson "rifles"?  Of course, this depend's
>on a liberal interpreation of the rules...

I must accept responsibility for The Solution, a 50 km range TL11
Battlefield Meson Gun. I also believe that Meson Guns should have a minimum
length of 100m at TL11, dropping by 20m per TL, which takes battlefield
meson guns up to TL15, where they belong.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:40:44 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: The Jannix Cooperative  installment1

Jannix Cooperative

	The Jannix are a race of insectoid creatures somewhat similar 
in appearance to the Terran Rhinocerous Beetle.  They average 2.5 
meters in height and 1.5 in width.  They have four major limbs, two 
small connector appendages in the upper third of the body and a pair 
of large cutting horns out the top of the shell.  Normal locomotion 
is accomplished on all fours although they are capable of standing on 
either set of limbs for extended periods.  A dense carapace covers 
the back and sides of the Jannix and the front is also protected, 
although to a lesser degree, by a chitin exoskeleton. The Jannix are 
colored from flat black to dark blue and deep purple, this seems to 
be influenced by the ambient temperature of the environment.

	The smaller connector appendages are usually attached to an 
organic weapon which fires chitin shells filled with acid/bile.  
These shells appear to be the Jannixs waste material and are highly 
toxic to humanoids.  Sometimes the Jannix are seen with other organic 
devices in place of these weapons, including computer interfaces and 
medical/repair devices, but these are very rare and the Jannix seem 
to go to great lengths to protect these.  There have been reports of 
flying Jannix, but it is more likely the creature's capability of 
jumping up to 30 meters high and 50 meters forward with the carapace 
spread out.

	The social structure of the Jannix is relatively unknown. 
Whenever they have been encountered in the wilds, there has been a 
vampire ship nearby.  It is believed somehow there exists a working 
relationship between the two.  This could be a dire threat to the 
Regency, but so far there have been no known incursions into our 
space.  The Jannix are unrelenting in the pursuit of their goals, 
whatever they may be.  A live specimen has never been taken for 
study.  Scientific perusal of dead ones has yielded some facts 
however.  Their blood is very acidic, to the point of damaging most 
container vessels.  They are capable of ingesting minerals but prefer 
organic materials.  They have internal organs capable of producing 
chemical physiological enhancers that can give them great strength 
and endurance for a short period.  They also have the ability to 
reproduce items of technology, converting the items inside the body 
and then expelling them.  This appears to be limited to small and 
uncomplex items, less than .2 cubic meters in volume and 5 kg in 
weight.  It is not understood how their other equipment such as ships 
or vehicles are manufactured as they have no fine manipulative 
ability.

	Some of the technology recovered from them indicates an 
advance level, perhaps as high as 17 in some instances.  Zhodani 
scientists believe that they must work with or have subjugated 
another race capable of these tasks.  The Zhodani have encountered 
the Jannix on a number of occasions, leading them to much greater 
knowledge of these creatures.  This is also where we get the term 
Jannix Cooperative.  However, with our no contact policy in efect, it 
is difficult to make any other assumptions or conclusions at this 
time.

Sincerely yours,

Professor Corwin R. Scorcese
University of Regina



If any one would like to use this material and the follow up sections 
in their campaigns or list it on a web page, feel free.  Just please 
list me as the original author, thanks,  Rob Biggar

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:46:56 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: [none]

get faq

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:48:03 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: [none]

list

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:41:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

In mail you write:

> My delta-V was still out. Its been pointed out to me that you'd need to bump 
> it up to around 25km/s to match orbits with Jupiter.

Why? You are starting from Earth (or equivalent) which gives you a 29
km/sec orbital velocity (orbiting the Sun, not the planet). And you'll
have to *get rid of* some of that velocity, as Jupiter is orbiting
*slower*. 

Orbital mechanics is rather different than everyday experience.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:48:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry

In mail you write:

> retreat turn into a headlong rout.  Among Sammy's "signatures" is the
> use of retreat's to sucker the enemy to over-extending himself, then
> *WHAP* his nose in before fading away again.
>
> Second note: the very fact that Sammy can be said to have "signatures"
> in his operation's show predictability, and is a sign of growing arrogance
> that could be into a real liability in the field.  The main reason he has
> been able to get away with it so far is that he rarely campagin's against
> the same enemy twice, is still a quick study in the field, stick's to some
> simple rules of thumb that has saved his command more than once
> (ie "Avoid splitting your command", "Allway's keep a reserve", "Keep the
> plan simple and flexible", etc.), and has the confidence of good men.

It occurs to me that those "signatures" could be a bit of clever
disinformation by Sammy. For one thing, the one involving retreats
would make *real* retreats much safer by making the enemy follow slowly
and cautiously. 

And I can see someone setting up some "signature" moves such that when
someone tries to take advantage of them, he can do something else and
hand them their head as it were.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:24:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

In mail you write:

> People could still telecommute.

Want to bet? At the halfway point, they are *more* than 300,000,000 km
from both the planet they left and from the station they are going to. 

Light travels approximately 300,000 km/sec. That means that the timelag
in communications is more than 2000 seconds. That's over half an hour. 

That makes anything except email kinda pointless. You certainly can't
carry on a conversation, much less do anything "interactive". 

For that matter, after only a few days the timelag will be over 30
seconds, which pretty much kills interactivity. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 05:39:19 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller update

The SJGames GURPS Traveller site now includes excerpts from the book,
including art.  Check it out at:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/Core/index.html

GT doesn't seem to be back from the printer yet; SJGames is still saying
September release.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:20:19 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: [G:T] The art gallery

Just tuned into the G:T page at SJG and saw the art work from the rules book.
I must say that the to first pictures were good. The image of the trader leaving
the planet is just stunning. Hopefully there is more of these in there. 
Of the three others I only disliked the barroom drawng. To much comic-book feel
for me. But still can anyone identify all the races in that picture?

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:26:25 -0400
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Trade & Commerce Spreadsheet or Program available?

Hi,
	I was hoping someone might have a spreadsheet or know of a program that
would help determine values of potential cargoes in destination port as
well as origination port.  I seem to recall seeing one of these on the net
a while ago, but had not been able to locate it since.  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.

	I'm sure others would like to know of this gem if it is available, so
please keep replies to the list.


Thanks,
Scott Spieker

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:50:21 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Racial design philosophies

Wayne Ewart wrote:
> 
> >
> >Hivers, being the "courageously challenged" sophonts they are would be on a
> >defensive orientation.  Good speed and fuel (probably always extra jump
> >tankage for escape jumps, etc) endurance.  Heavy on armor, screens and pd.
> >Specialized designs (exploration, Ithklur attack-heavy ships, unassuming
> >traders, maybe some jump-warbot type schemes).
> >
> just remeber this is the race that walk(?) in and took the k'kree homeworld
> to make them back off.

Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with the
K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did
not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one
look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after
all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere. 

Wondering, always wondering, if that was _all_ that the Hivers did....

The Hivers are, IMHO, THE scariest bunch in Known Space, period. 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:12:25 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Traveller Deckplans Webring

The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan on
your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
you.

Home page: http://hartwick.edu/~smithw/deckplan.htm

We still need a good graphic for the Deckplans webring - perhaps
something in a stylized deckplan fragment? Anyone want to volunteer
to get their graphic blazoned on a half-dozen web pages, please 
email me.

Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:08:07 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Okay, so peole claim that its economically viable to build a freighter which can
> support interplanetary travel at TL 8 without fusion rockets, so here's the
> challange. There is a mining colony on a Jovian moon which needs a freighter
> to ferry crew and supplies.
>
> The specifications:
>
> Distance from main system to gas giant = 600,000,000 km (a lttile less than
> Earth to Jupiter when in conjuction)

AHAH!  I've found where the problem is.  If we use planetary motion to help us along
then the conjunction is a bad point to start from.

For starters lets draw the system.  We've got the sun in the middle from which we can
draw some acceleration.  Then we've got the earth's orbit.  Then out 5 times the
distance we've got Jupiter's orbit.

Now we draw our path to make best use of the sun's gravity and the motion of Jupiter
and  Earth.  The simplest drawing would be a circle that is tangential to the top of
Earth's orbit and the bottom of Jupiter's.  This could also be an ellipse with the sun
at one focus and a spot between Earth's and Jupiter's orbit as the other focus.  I
suspect this would be where you point the ship to get the appropriate flight path.
Note that in both cases you conserve your orbital velocity to match the destination on
the far side of the sun.  If the circle was set up in the conjunction, the ship's
velocity would be countered by the planet's velocity.

Now you could produce a nautiloid shape where you spiral in to Earth's orbit, but that
would require a spirograph to draw (which I don't have).

Anyway, if we assume a circular orbit (which I'm pretty sure it won't be) then the
total trip distance would be pi*D where D would be about 6 AU. Roughly 10 AU to
Jupiter and 10 AU back.  Initial orbital velocity would be about 106,000 km/hr (the
Earth's velocity), final velocity would be 7,487 km/hr (Jupiter's velocity).  Using
those numbers, it would take a drive capable of a continuous .0043 m/s/s acceleration.
Which would be an ion drive 175% the size of the ship...

However, accepting a 3 year turn around yields a 64% drive fraction and a 4 year turn
around yields 31% using ion drives.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:30:10 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with the
K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did
not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one
look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after
all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, but 
I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?

And I wonder how the Hivers pulled it off. Really, really catchy 
McDonalds adds on the holovision?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:59:54 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

At 01:12 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan on
>your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
>you.

This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
the plans?  

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:13:05 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Traveller Deckplan Webring

I may have sent the wrong URL for the Deckplan Webring home page - 
it should be http://hartwick.edu/~smithw/deckring.htm

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:20:23 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
the plans?  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I use Paint Shop Pro on my IBM PC. I'd like to try some other packages
though.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Kurt wrote;
>At 01:12 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan on
>>your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
>>you.
>
>This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
>done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
>the plans?  


Up til recently, I used Canvas 3.5; now I use Canvas 5 for the most part,
with some work done in Illustrator or Freehand; most of what I make deck
plans for is not Traveller, however, but my Star Trek game, or any of a
number of home-brews that I have/will be running.

I much prefer draw programs for this kind of work; paint is easier to
convert to a JPEG or GIF, but it's not as accurate or useful while working
with the deck plans themselves (and, of course, it's more of a pain to
move bits and pieces around... )


 >Thanks!

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Powerbook, will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:58:06 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

I use Adobe Illustrator.  Then you can save it as an Acrobat file.

Dan


- -----Original Message-----
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring


>At 01:12 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan on
>>your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
>>you.
>
>This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
>done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
>the plans?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kurt Feltenberger
>
>We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
>habit.
>--- Aristotle ---
>
>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:08:12 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

I'm using FastCad 32 for the basic shapes and then porting that in .DXF 
to CorelDraw 7.0 for the fills.  This is saved in JPEG.

Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:59:54 -0400
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

At 01:12 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan on
>your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
>you.

This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
done to death already, but what software packages do people use for 
drawi=
ng
the plans? =20

Thanks!

Kurt Feltenberger

=93We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act 
but=
 a
habit.=94
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:19:29 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

oh h*ll, now I have to remember where I read that...;-)

somewhere in my stuff, probably either in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
or one of my TNE books...I do remember it is a GDW publication.


Walter Smith wrote:
> 
> Bruce Johnson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with the
> K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did
> not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
> uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
> induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one
> look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after
> all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, but
> I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?
> 
> And I wonder how the Hivers pulled it off. Really, really catchy
> McDonalds adds on the holovision?
> 
> Walt Smith

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:22:57 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
>
> Light travels approximately 300,000 km/sec. That means that the timelag
> in communications is more than 2000 seconds. That's over half an hour.
> 
> That makes anything except email kinda pointless. You certainly can't
> carry on a conversation, much less do anything "interactive".
> 
> For that matter, after only a few days the timelag will be over 30
> seconds, which pretty much kills interactivity.
>

Well, yes and no...I used to run Pagemaker 5 on my trusty old Mac Plus.
Doable...I called it 'tai chi computing'. You have to be careful about
piling on the mouse clicks ;-)


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:27:42 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

> This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
> done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
> the plans?

I use MacDraw Pro on the Mac.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #809
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 10 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 810



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: GURPS Traveller update
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
OK, how to pronounce it...
Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
"Troops"
Re: OK, how to pronounce it...
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: "Troops" 
Re: [TTL] Fusion Rockets
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: GURPS Traveller update
Re: [G:T] The art gallery

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:00:15 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
> done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
> the plans?  
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I use Paint Shop Pro on my IBM PC. I'd like to try some other packages
> though.

Right now, I've just been scanning them in under Windows95, then cleaning them 
up with xv & xpaint under Linux.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:16:31 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller update

I liked the artwork there - very much a late Classic/early MegaTraveller
feel.

However, I was a bit concerned about the Aslan picture at the bottom.  At
first, I was concerned that the Aslan was facing the most deadly enemy of
the Hierate; the dread Kusyu Tick.  Then a friend here at work suggested he
was in fact facing down a Kafer from 2300AD.

I kinda like the Tick idea, though...

Steven Charlton
scharlto@ifsna.com

From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> said:

The SJGames GURPS Traveller site now includes excerpts from the book,
including art.  Check it out at:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/Core/index.html

GT doesn't seem to be back from the printer yet; SJGames is still saying
September release.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:32:15 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Tommy Grav wrote:

> Just tuned into the G:T page at SJG and saw the art work from the rules book.

So, what's the URL ?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:34:41 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

I was j/k bout the "courageously challenged" bit.  I like the Hivers alot.  I
gave them a '++' in my IMTU code. : )  

> > Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with the
> > K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did
> > not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
> > uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
> > induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one
> > look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after
> > all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere.
> > 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, but
> I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?

The Hiver AM, IIRC the Imperial Encyclopedia, Aliens of the Rim: Hivers and
Ithklur.  The Ithklur tell a different tale.  They were (and remain in the
1200s) the major members of the Federation ground forces.  The Hivers
supposedly bugged out and the Ithklur vowed to fight on to the end.  The
fighting on certain worlds got really bitter.  The K'kree were similar to a
herd beast the Ithklur were fond of eating so they began to eat them, taking
their weapons and equipment to continue the fight.  The K'kree on the world
went to "get them back" and began eating Ithklur.  The Ithklur say the Hivers
were actually getting ready to surrender but then they saw this and similar
events and bluffed the K'kree, who fell for it.  Other manipulations were
intimated including solitary recreation (abhorrent to the K'kree).  There were
a few of the worlds... they remain interdicted by the K'kree to the Collapse.

> The Hivers are, IMHO, THE scariest bunch in Known Space, period. 

Yup.  I like them alot.  Very "alien" and unusual.  Hiver Tech Rep's can be
very fun to ref, messing with players heads, especially.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:01:32 -0700
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

Tommy Grav wrote:

> Of the three others I only disliked the barroom drawng. To much comic-book feel
> for me. But still can anyone identify all the races in that picture?

The ones in the upper left corner, from left to right:

Aslan, K'kree, Vargr (I think - partially obscured by bartender) and Vargr.
The picture on the bottom is an Aslan with Dewclaw extended
facing what looks like an overgrown tick or mite.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:09:56 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: OK, how to pronounce it...

Loren, for a variety of odd reasons, I need the "official"
pronunciation of the acronym for the SJG Generic Universal Role
Playing System.  A couple of my friends are arguing about it, and
the reasons they're giving for their preferred pronunciation can
both be considered valid.

So, are you the line manager for "GURPS Traveller", with a hard
"G" as in "Gull", or for "jurps Traveller", with a soft G as in
"Generic"?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:03:40 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

I stand corrected and your ref. comes from ether the hiver mod. or the
k'kree mod.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: September 10, 1998 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)


>oh h*ll, now I have to remember where I read that...;-)
>
>somewhere in my stuff, probably either in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
>or one of my TNE books...I do remember it is a GDW publication.
>
>
>Walter Smith wrote:
>>
>> Bruce Johnson wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with the
>> K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did
>> not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
>> uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
>> induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one
>> look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after
>> all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, but
>> I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?
>>
>> And I wonder how the Hivers pulled it off. Really, really catchy
>> McDonalds adds on the holovision?
>>
>> Walt Smith
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
>University of Arizona
>College of Pharmacy
>Information Technology Group
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:11:26 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809

     Hi, my name is Leo and I just joined this little tea party.  I am
playing a a large scale Empire Builder with Rob Biggar as the game master.
Any ideas anyone could give me on ways to improve tech levels would be
appreciated.  The average tech level of the planet around us is 5 while we
are able to produce tech level 15.  How can we bring them up to speed, not
destroy there culture, and as a corporate entity still make a profit.

Leo

When in doubt shoot first and autopsy the corpse later.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:36:16 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

>This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been

>done to death already, but what software packages do people use for
drawing
>the plans?

Canvas (3.5 or 5), MacDraw Pro and soon I will try PT Modeler (which
should produce an external view also)

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:36:08 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

Walter Smith wrote:

>Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with
the
>K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did

>not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
>uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
>induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one

>look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after

>all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, but
>I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?
>
>And I wonder how the Hivers pulled it off. Really, really catchy
>McDonalds adds on the holovision?

Alien Module 7 Hivers  pg 17

"Selecting several worlds within Kilong sector deep in the K'kree's Two
Thousand Worlds, major secret expeditions were dispatched to work a
variety of manipulations on the native K'kree populations.  Over a
period of years (-2018 to -2013), the expeditions were successful in
changing altering K'kree culture from its consistant and static mold,
introducing such aberrations as meat sauces for foods and acceptance of
isolation as a recreation."
...
"The K'kree were extremely disturbed by the Hiver tampering with their
culture. The four K'kree worlds which had been tampered with were
sterilized immediately; they remain interdicted worlds even today."

from this I would expect that it was an Italian food chain and not
MacDonalds

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:25:20 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people wondering why
the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next to a
bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:51:14 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

At 01:59 pm 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 01:12 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan
on
>>your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
>>you.
>
>This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has
been
>done to death already, but what software packages do people use for
drawing
>the plans?  

	I personally prefer more CAD-oriented drawing packages (I currently
use AutoSketch), because I want to be able to more easily edit
deckplans than a paint package allows. Even something as simple as
changing the scale can be a hassle with bitmaps.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:03:15 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> writes:
>I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, but 
>I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?
>
>And I wonder how the Hivers pulled it off. Really, really catchy 
>McDonalds adds on the holovision?

(This being manipulating K'kree on an invaded world into using meat sauces
with their meals.)

This is mentioned in the original Hiver alien module, and amplified (as
well as given a possibly different spin) in the TNE Hivers & Ithklur book.

In the original, it is a given fact that a Hiver manipulated the K'kree,
and teh war ended, but no details are given.

H&I tells the story in more detail, with a different spin, without
changing any of the "facts" presented in the original module. In the
revised history, the K'kree responded to Ithklur eating K'kree corpses
(fresh meat) by eating Ithklur corpses. [1] A Hiver diplomat reported this
fact to the K'kree, incidentally claiming that it was a consequence of its
manipulation. The K'kree, and the other Hivers, believed it: the war was
over and the Hiver was granted the Manipulator title.

(Marc has noted that there is nothing to stop a Hiver recording many
possible outcomes of an action, then pointing to the one that turns out to
be true and claiming a successful manipulation. H&I presents Hivers as a
society of social scientists, each one trying to perform experiments on
the others, and therefore you can never trust that a Hiver is ever telling
you the truth. Whetehr you agree with this or not is a matter for your
Traveller universe. Personally, I like it because Hivers become a _lot_
more interesting to play.)


[1]There as a near-flame-war about this on the TML last year, mainly a
disagreement about whether a herbivore would eat meat under any
circumstances.  A quick bit of research will demonstrate that not only do
herbivores kill quite easily (when in stressful situations and unable to
flee), but they will also eat meat under the same circumstances. (When I
was a kid, one of my gerbils ate half the other when its food dispenser
jammed and I didn't notice, because there was still food in the bin. A
hard way to learn a lesson, but one I remember vividly even now.) In a
real drag-em out fight, with plenty of stress and the necessity of staying
under cover (because of artillery), it is quite possible that K'kree
soldiers would 'break down' and eat Ithklur corpses.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:11:31 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: "Troops"

Sign me up to be struck by a c-minus asteroid launched by a lesbian
Aslan on orders of a Sayat-built virus-infested computer, but the
"Troops" video had me on the floor laughing my scrawny rear off, and
I just had to share it with you. Check out
http://www.theforce.net/troops/index.html

It's a Star Wars knockoff of the Fox television series "Cops." For
those people who are lucky enough to live in areas not subject to
American network television, "Cops" is one of those real-life
"documentaries" where a film crew rides around with police officers
shooting miles of video. Then the producers pick the "cool" scenes
and show them.

These guys did a professional-quality job of making this video--you'd
think George Lucas lent them a hand. And it'll reveal some things
that happened at the beginning of "Star Wars, A New Hope" that you
didn't know ...

WARNING! I used Go!Zilla to automate the download, because the full
video is about 26Mb. You can download it in parts, too.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:15:37 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: OK, how to pronounce it...

At 10:09 PM 9/10/1998 GMT, you wrote:
>
>So, are you the line manager for "GURPS Traveller", with a hard
>"G" as in "Gull", or for "jurps Traveller", with a soft G as in
>"Generic"?
>--
>Jeff Zeitlin
>jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

It's with a hard "G", as in "Great".

It originated back in (roughly) the early to mid-
1980's, when RPG's were starting to diversify
and seemingly every game company was coming out
with it's own system, many of them half-assed.
 At the time, SJG's base was its boardgames like 
Car Wars and Ogre. Since Car Wars had a lot of 
roleplaying elements to it, lots of fans were 
asking when SJG would put out its own RPG.
SJ wanted to do an all-genres _good_ game,
so that project was put on a back burner until
they could devote the resources to develop it.

Somewhere in this time frame, SJ explained this
in an editorial in Autoduel Quarterly (the 
"JTAS" for Car Wars) and mentioned eventually
putting out their Great Unnamed RolePlaying System
(it's working title). Later mentions in AQ
acronymized this to GURPS.

By the time SJG took it off the back-burner 
several years later, "GURPS" had developed
its own name recognition -- if they called
they game something like "EverythingQuest",
game buyers whould say "what? What's that?";
if they called it GURPS, the people most 
interested in buying it would recognize it
as "Steve Jackson's RPG".

So they kept the acronym and came up with
new words to fit it.

Since the G originally stood for "Great", 
it's pronounced hard.

And if that's not good enough, let's just add
that Steve Jackson has always used a hard G
when I've seen him at Cons.

JB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:33:33 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 06:01 PM 9/10/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>Tommy Grav wrote:
>
>> Of the three others I only disliked the barroom drawng. To much
comic-book feel
>> for me. But still can anyone identify all the races in that picture?
>
>The ones in the upper left corner, from left to right:
>
>Aslan, K'kree, Vargr (I think - partially obscured by bartender) and Vargr.

And a host of nondescript "others".

>The picture on the bottom is an Aslan with Dewclaw extended
>facing what looks like an overgrown tick or mite.

_BUT_, it ***finally*** puts the Aslan dewclaw in it's
proper configuration, with the hinge at the tip of the
thumb (producing a useful weapon with some reach), 
instead of that bizzare thing in DGP's artwork, with
the hinge at the base (which produces what could at 
best be called an unimpressive "palm-spike").

JB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:25:23 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 11:32 PM 9/10/1998 +0200, you wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Tommy Grav wrote:
>
>> Just tuned into the G:T page at SJG and saw the art work from the rules
book.
>
>So, what's the URL ?

www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/Core/art.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:45:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> >>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan
> >>on your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
> >>you.
> >
> >This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has
> >been done to death already, but what software packages do people use for
> >drawing the plans?  
> 
> 	I personally prefer more CAD-oriented drawing packages (I currently
> use AutoSketch), because I want to be able to more easily edit
> deckplans than a paint package allows. Even something as simple as
> changing the scale can be a hassle with bitmaps.

Anybody know a good *freeware* CAD or drawing program for Linux?  And no,
*DON'T* suggest GIMP.  I can't get it to work with my system due to memory
constraints.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:46:25 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 07:25 PM 9/10/1998 EDT, you wrote:
>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people wondering
why
>the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next to a
>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
>

...and he's parked right next to an Aslan.
Must be one of those thrill-seekers hopped
up on fermented plant products.

Suspiciously, there's no Hiver in evidence...

JB

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:59:30 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: "Troops" 

> It's a Star Wars knockoff of the Fox television series "Cops." For
> those people who are lucky enough to live in areas not subject to
> American network television, "Cops" is one of those real-life
> "documentaries" where a film crew rides around with police officers
> shooting miles of video. Then the producers pick the "cool" scenes
> and show them.

From seeing 'Cops' once or twice (hey, I was waiting for The X-Files, ok??), it's come to my attention that a white male *cannot* be arrested on a felony warrant here in the U.S. *UNLESS* he takes his shirt off first.

Wish I'd known that way back when; I coulda beat the charges due to an improper warrant...  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:16:25 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [TTL] Fusion Rockets

Date sent:      	Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:14:43 -0700
From:           	bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)

> >[Hohmann transfer orbit]
> >         transfer time           2.731 years.

> OK. Would Andrew be willing to relax his requirements to a support for
> a scientific base (no return cargo, Hohmann transfer orbit OK) or shall we
> still go for the full-up base (1-year mission, ~25 km/s, return cargo of
> ice?) (If we do the latter, we might allow ships with hypersonic SL
> or airframe hulls to use aerocapture - reducing delta-V by about 2 km/s - 
> and ships with any kind of SL or AF hull to use aerobraking for orbit changes
> (reducing delta-V by 1 km/s on the return leg only, since you don't want
> to make multiple aerobraking passes in Jupiter's radiation environment.)

Okay, I think that (since I got the Delta-V equation right) it would be fairly safe 
to say that without fusion rockets at TL you can't have widepread exploitation of 
the outer planets. So here's a revised spec. The ship should be capable of 
supporting a full colony on Mars (this is its prime role), so it requires a 1 year 
round trip to Mars and other inner planets (if this is not possible it could go up 
to a maximum of 2 years); with the secondary function of doing a classic 
Hohmann transfer trip to a scientific base on Jupiter (and those scientists have 
to be really dedicated).

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:27:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

In mail you write:

> AHAH!  I've found where the problem is.  If we use planetary motion
> to help us along then the conjunction is a bad point to start from.

> For starters lets draw the system.  We've got the sun in the middle
> from which we can draw some acceleration.  Then we've got the earth's
> orbit.  Then out 5 times the distance we've got Jupiter's orbit.

> Now we draw our path to make best use of the sun's gravity and the
> motion of Jupiter and  Earth.  The simplest drawing would be a circle
> that is tangential to the top of Earth's orbit and the bottom of
> Jupiter's.  This could also be an ellipse with the sun at one focus
> and a spot between Earth's and Jupiter's orbit as the other focus.  I
> suspect this would be where you point the ship to get the appropriate
> flight path.  Note that in both cases you conserve your orbital
> velocity to match the destination on the far side of the sun.  If the
> circle was set up in the conjunction, the ship's velocity would be
> countered by the planet's velocity.

Actually, it's the ellipse, tangent to both orbits, with the sun at one
focus. That gives you the classic Hohmann transfer orbit.

> Now you could produce a nautiloid shape where you spiral in to
> Earth's orbit, but that would require a spirograph to draw (which I
> don't have).

It'd also use *hideous* amounts of fuel.

> Anyway, if we assume a circular orbit (which I'm pretty sure it won't
> be) then the total trip distance would be pi*D where D would be about
> 6 AU. Roughly 10 AU to Jupiter and 10 AU back.  Initial orbital
> velocity would be about 106,000 km/hr (the Earth's velocity), final
> velocity would be 7,487 km/hr (Jupiter's velocity).  Using those
> numbers, it would take a drive capable of a continuous .0043 m/s/s
> acceleration.  Which would be an ion drive 175% the size of the
> ship...

You've still made a mistake. You forgot to allow for the fact that the
Sun will do a lot of the slowing down (on the way up) and speeding up
(on the way back).  Merely "climbing" from Earth orbit to Jupiter orbit
will subtract a lot of velocity from the ship. 

> However, accepting a 3 year turn around yields a 64% drive fraction
> and a 4 year turn around yields 31% using ion drives.

Actually, if you use a proper Hohmann orbit, you get a 2.7 year trip
one way, with a .6 year layover while you wait for the planets to line
up properly for a return trip. And you only make a short burn at Earth
and a short burn at Jupiter.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:18:39 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller update

At 02:16 PM 9/10/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I liked the artwork there - very much a late Classic/early MegaTraveller
>feel.
>
>However, I was a bit concerned about the Aslan picture at the bottom.  At
>first, I was concerned that the Aslan was facing the most deadly enemy of
>the Hierate; the dread Kusyu Tick.  Then a friend here at work suggested he
>was in fact facing down a Kafer from 2300AD.
>
>I kinda like the Tick idea, though...

"Arthur, why am I facing a giant Kitty?"

"Tick!  That's an Aslan Warrior!"

"Nonsense, Arthur, it's just a big fluffy kitty..."

<bloody chaos snipped>
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:15:36 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 08:46 PM 9/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 07:25 PM 9/10/1998 EDT, you wrote:
>>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people wondering
>why
>>the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next to a
>>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
>>
>
>...and he's parked right next to an Aslan.
>Must be one of those thrill-seekers hopped
>up on fermented plant products.

But from his mane, he's a Trader, and probably a little more tolerant.  The
rest of the K'Kree's entourage could be just outside, and he's a junior
intern sent in to fetch drinks.  Note the Aslan seems to be a bit put out
at the K'Kree's presence.  

>Suspiciously, there's no Hiver in evidence...

The Hiver is watching the fight in the back (directly above the K'Kree's
head.)
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #810
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 11 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 811



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Hivers (Long)
Re: "Troops"
Re: OK, how to pronounce it...
Re: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: OK, how to pronounce it...
Re: Hivers (Long) 
Re: "Troops"
rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: OK, how to pronounce it...
Re: "Troops"
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809
Re: TL11 Tramp freighter 
Re: Pocket Empires:more trouble (longish)2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:31:59 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

- -----Original Message-----
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: September 10, 1998 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery


>At 07:25 PM 9/10/1998 EDT, you wrote:
>>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people wondering
>why
>>the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next to a
>>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
>>
>
>...and he's parked right next to an Aslan.
>Must be one of those thrill-seekers hopped
>up on fermented plant products.
>
>Suspiciously, there's no Hiver in evidence...
>
>JB
>
>
>
Hey who do you think got the K'kree in that small(for K'kree) room filled
with the smell of meat eaters.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:39:52 -0500
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long)

Bruce Johnson bemoaned:
>
>oh h*ll, now I have to remember where I read that...;-)
>
>somewhere in my stuff, probably either in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
>or one of my TNE books...I do remember it is a GDW publication.
>
>
>Walter Smith wrote:
> > 
> > Bruce Johnson wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > Actually, no they didn't.  They were heading towards a showdown with the
> > K'Kree, when they demonstrated conclusively to the K'Kree that they did
> > not want to mess with the Hivers. A frontier world of the K'Kree was,
> > uhh,  manipulated by the Hivers. The K'Kree on that world had been
> > induced to eat meat as a normal part of their diet. The K'Kree took one
> > look at what had been done to them, decided the Hivers could live after
> > all, nuked the manipulated world to glowing glass, and went elsewhere.

As someone has probably already mentioned, it was TNE's "Aliens of the
Rim,
Vol. 1". 

What happened, according to the Hivers, was that after the K'kree
pounded
on the Hivers for six years, the K'kree slowed to regroup and upgrade
their 
forces.

This gave the Hivers time to change the culture on a few selected worlds
in the Kilong sector of the Two Thousand Worlds. Within 5 years (-2018
to -2013), these worlds were using meat sauces for food and accepted
isolation as a recreation, both of which are anathema to normal K'kree
society.

The Hivers got the K'kree to the negotation table by hinting they would
surrender then surprised the delegation by demonstrating their changes
and showing plans for doing the same to the entire Two Thousand Worlds
unless the K'kree left all occupied worlds and backed off.

Can you say "immediate armistice"? Sure. I knew you could.

Walter was correct in a sense. The worlds were indeed sterilized though
there are no details as to how this was accomplished. The worlds were
also interdicted and remained so up to the Rebellion and the advent of
Virus.

That's right, folks. Interdicted in -2213 and still going. That's about
equal to becoming interdicted around the beginning of the Egyption
civilization and continuing through today. Talk about paranoid.

Now I said "according to the Hivers" above for a reason. One of the
Hiver client races, the Ithklur, has a different version.

According to *these* guys, on at least 4 K'kree worlds, substantial
Ithklur ground forces were left behind when the Hiver navy bugged
out. True to form, the Ithklur, like any other elite fighting
force left to die by "those in charge", chose to fight until they
were killed or starved to death. Fortunately, they found each world
had _plenty_ of food...in the form of the K'kree. It just so
happened the K'kree were somewhat similar to a meat animal 
domesticated by the Ithklur. All the Ithklur had to do then was use
the weapons and ammo that came with dinner and continue having fun.

To call the resulting combat and atrocities by both sides "vicious"
is like calling the Pacific Ocean "moist". The K'kree eventually
responded with "ceremonial consumption of the Ithklur dead", as
GDW put it, in vengeance for the Ithklur dining practices.

Now the Hiver in charge of relieving the cutoff forces happened
upon the above situation and, being an enterprising lad, er,
sophont, drafted some "creative" documentation claiming the whole
thing was a deliberate Hiver manipulation. He/she/it then crashed
the *real* Hiver surrender negotiations barely in time to pull one
of the biggest bluffs in galactic history. Afterwards, the Hiver
was heralded as one of the greatest of all Manipulators.

The Ithklur call him something else.

One last thing. GDW wrote the following as closure and it shows
the Ithklur attitude best of all. I quote:

"Significantly, the Ithklur military anthem dates from this
period. Although its official name is 'With Certainty of
Victory,' its actual colloquial meaning is:  'Hamburger for
Lunch Tomorrow, You Betcha.'"

Ya gotta love the Ithklur....

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:59:15 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: "Troops"

David J. Golden wrote:

>
>
>
> WARNING! I used Go!Zilla to automate the download, because the full
> video is about 26Mb. You can download it in parts, too.

The full show is 70+ MB.  Its broken into 5 pieces.  The last is half
credits.  The first is the Bad Boys/Cops theme with scenes from the
following parts.

I've heard rumors that you can find it in someplaces on video tape,
but if you do its bootlegged.  The makers didn't release it on tape
and don't see dollar 1 from all their work.

They were written up in Wired several months ago.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:02:39 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: OK, how to pronounce it...

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> Loren, for a variety of odd reasons, I need the "official"
> pronunciation of the acronym for the SJG Generic Universal Role
> Playing System.  A couple of my friends are arguing about it, and
> the reasons they're giving for their preferred pronunciation can
> both be considered valid.

I'd really like to hear the opinion in favor of the soft-G "Jurps"
pronounciation.  Soft-G for Generic?  Sorry, but that doesn't
fly for acronyms.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:01:23 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry

>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:26:52
>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Sammy's Army
>>From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
>>Subject: Traveller Merc's & Leg infrantry
>>
>>Well, it depend's. My intent was to design a "typical" light company of
>>mercenaries for the usual jungle/training cadre/garrison
>>role.  The typical operational area in my mind was sub-saharan Africa,
>>which is definitely infrantry country.  Also, I want the merc's to be on
the
>>cheap side: the fact that they have three jump-capable ship's with some
>>ortillery capasity should compensate for the lack of ground vehicle
>>transportation, in Sammy's mind.

>Many, many years ago, an amphibious military operation was planned against
>the Turks in Albania. Don John of Austria, in charge of the operation,
>recommmended they take saddles, bridles, tack and cash - they could buy
>horses when they got there, and thus save on transporting them.
>Similarly, it might be worth Sammy's mind to take a number of CG modules
>and rely on being able to rig them up to appropriate local transport.

Yep, that's a bloody good idea.  Saves on space that would have been used
for vehicle transport, and in return gives an extra dimension of movement,
speed, and much greater general flexibility.  AND it's unexpected by foes
who
haven't done their homework: "Hah, he's didn't bring any grav vehicles: so
he's
stuck on the ground" they thought....

>Grav tanks are pretty damn cheap in Traveller, at least at with FFS2 grav
>plates.

That's the problem in trying to write adventure's that can be used in any
Traveller ruleset: the inconsistencies start to build up, and become more
significant to the adventure.  Thruster plates vs HEPlaR, ancient jump
torpedoes and the lastest Fusion Plus, it just get's hard lining up all the
bottles in a row.  Still, there is enough similarity in the Imperial etho's
that
you can still tell if a particular adventure is "Traveller" or not - at
least as
long as the Third Imperium lives....

>I can easily imagine a TL7 grav tank, designed something like a helicopter
>gunship but using contragrav rather than rotors.

Shhhh, that's the BIG SURPRISE on Sammy's next world!  <Please translate the
following into Black American urban slang, for Sammy's exact word's>
"Lookit, these people don't have fibre [1], they don't have fusion, they
can't even build a single decent ship's boat!  How the hell is this pathetic
backwater supposed to build *grav tanks*?"

"I don't know, Chief, but I've read the after action report's myself, and
that's
EXACTLY what those bogey's are!  Piston powered grav tank's!"

(I'm assuming that the piston motor's provide motive, while the artigrav
simply nullifies weight)

>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:46:25 -0400
>From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
>Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

>At 07:25 PM 9/10/1998 EDT, you wrote:

>>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people wondering
>>why the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next
to a
>>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
>>
>...and he's parked right next to an Aslan.
>Must be one of those thrill-seekers hopped
>up on fermented plant products.

>Suspiciously, there's no Hiver in evidence...
>JB

So, I see a *lone* K'kree parked next to *two* carnivores
in a *tightly enclosed* space?

And we *don't* see the Hiver?

Oh oh.


[1] As in "fibre optic's"

Alvin Plummer
"I miss the OLD MegaTrav Imperial helmet's!"
"Look, at least you can see out of these!"
"But the crucial coolness factor has fallen off drastically!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:50 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > AHAH!  I've found where the problem is.  If we use planetary motion
> > to help us along then the conjunction is a bad point to start from.
>
> > For starters lets draw the system.  We've got the sun in the middle
> > from which we can draw some acceleration.  Then we've got the earth's
> > orbit.  Then out 5 times the distance we've got Jupiter's orbit.
>
> > Now we draw our path to make best use of the sun's gravity and the
> > motion of Jupiter and  Earth.  The simplest drawing would be a circle
> > that is tangential to the top of Earth's orbit and the bottom of
> > Jupiter's.  This could also be an ellipse with the sun at one focus
> > and a spot between Earth's and Jupiter's orbit as the other focus.  I
> > suspect this would be where you point the ship to get the appropriate
> > flight path.  Note that in both cases you conserve your orbital
> > velocity to match the destination on the far side of the sun.  If the
> > circle was set up in the conjunction, the ship's velocity would be
> > countered by the planet's velocity.
>
> Actually, it's the ellipse, tangent to both orbits, with the sun at one
> focus. That gives you the classic Hohmann transfer orbit.

I've never heard of that until today.  What's a Hohmann transfer orbit?

>
>
> > Now you could produce a nautiloid shape where you spiral in to
> > Earth's orbit, but that would require a spirograph to draw (which I
> > don't have).
>
> It'd also use *hideous* amounts of fuel.
>
> > Anyway, if we assume a circular orbit (which I'm pretty sure it won't
> > be) then the total trip distance would be pi*D where D would be about
> > 6 AU. Roughly 10 AU to Jupiter and 10 AU back.  Initial orbital
> > velocity would be about 106,000 km/hr (the Earth's velocity), final
> > velocity would be 7,487 km/hr (Jupiter's velocity).  Using those
> > numbers, it would take a drive capable of a continuous .0043 m/s/s
> > acceleration.  Which would be an ion drive 175% the size of the
> > ship...
>
> You've still made a mistake. You forgot to allow for the fact that the
> Sun will do a lot of the slowing down (on the way up) and speeding up
> (on the way back).  Merely "climbing" from Earth orbit to Jupiter orbit
> will subtract a lot of velocity from the ship.
>

Not so much a mistake as a false assumption.  I was assuming that the sun
was contributing the turning vector of the path.  From an absolute point of
view, the Earth would be running counter to Jupiter.  I think that the
gravitational effects of the sun would be offset by the increased orbital
speed.  That just leaves matching orbital speeds and covering the flight
path.  But I'm no rocket scientist and that could be a flawed assumption.

>
> > However, accepting a 3 year turn around yields a 64% drive fraction
> > and a 4 year turn around yields 31% using ion drives.
>
> Actually, if you use a proper Hohmann orbit, you get a 2.7 year trip
> one way, with a .6 year layover while you wait for the planets to line
> up properly for a return trip. And you only make a short burn at Earth
> and a short burn at Jupiter.

Well, if you can burn continuously, you can use a modified Hohmann orbit...
I think.

I just looked up a Hohmann transfer orbit.  It seems concerned with minimum
energy requirements.  But we can use more energy intensive orbits.  I think
this would just make the orbit more eccentric.  But if you get too
eccentric, you turn your orbit into a parabola... i.e. you just shot
yourself out of the system... OOPS!

However, at best the distance would be a straight line between Earth and
Jupiter about 6AU as opposed to 10 AU.  Even at that distance, my ion
drives are too big for a one year trip.

Could I propose a trip to Mars.  Layover there until proper alignment and
then continue to Jupiter.  If the one year limit is a human factor (who
wants to be stuck on-ship for a year) then dumping the passengers on Mars
for a while can alleviate things.  But I don't know that the trip from Mars
to Jupiter will be any faster.  May even be a longer trip.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:19:44 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: OK, how to pronounce it...

steve daniels wrote:

> Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
>
> > Loren, for a variety of odd reasons, I need the "official"
> > pronunciation of the acronym for the SJG Generic Universal Role
> > Playing System.  A couple of my friends are arguing about it, and
> > the reasons they're giving for their preferred pronunciation can
> > both be considered valid.
>
> I'd really like to hear the opinion in favor of the soft-G "Jurps"
> pronounciation.  Soft-G for Generic?  Sorry, but that doesn't
> fly for acronyms.

Well, what about the UR?
is it gOORps like guru? or gERps
And the S? is it like a Z or an S?
For that matter, the R could be soft like in New York or Boston...

The only way I've ever heard it pronounced is G as in ghost ERPS

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:53:51 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long) 

> Walter was correct in a sense. The worlds were indeed sterilized though
> there are no details as to how this was accomplished. The worlds were
> also interdicted and remained so up to the Rebellion and the advent of
> Virus.
> 
> That's right, folks. Interdicted in -2213 and still going. That's about
> equal to becoming interdicted around the beginning of the Egyption
> civilization and continuing through today. Talk about paranoid.

I'm wondering what kind of culture any survivors of the sterilisation would 
have after so long out of contact.  If those worlds were interdicted for that 
long, surely they thought *something* survived down there...  <grin>
 
> According to *these* guys, on at least 4 K'kree worlds, substantial
> Ithklur ground forces were left behind when the Hiver navy bugged
> out. True to form, the Ithklur, like any other elite fighting
> force left to die by "those in charge", chose to fight until they
> were killed or starved to death. Fortunately, they found each world
> had _plenty_ of food...in the form of the K'kree. It just so
> happened the K'kree were somewhat similar to a meat animal 
> domesticated by the Ithklur. All the Ithklur had to do then was use
> the weapons and ammo that came with dinner and continue having fun.

Heheh.  A one-stop resupply shop.  Reminds me of the evidence room in most 
major metro police stations...  <grin>

> "Significantly, the Ithklur military anthem dates from this
> period. Although its official name is 'With Certainty of
> Victory,' its actual colloquial meaning is:  'Hamburger for
> Lunch Tomorrow, You Betcha.'"
> 
> Ya gotta love the Ithklur....

Nice guys.  Anybody got any stats on these guys laying around?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:13:42 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: "Troops"

At 10:59 pm 9/10/98 -0400, steve daniels wrote:
>David J. Golden wrote:
>> WARNING! I used Go!Zilla to automate the download, because the
full
>> video is about 26Mb. You can download it in parts, too.
>
>The full show is 70+ MB.  Its broken into 5 pieces.  The last is
half

	The Quicktime 3 full video is only 26Mb ... I didn't feel like
downloading 5 separate chunks of the video, OR dealing with 70+M--it
was significantly quicker to just grab QT3 at the same time.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:09:59 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

First of all thanks to all of you who put me on to the FF&S1 material and
other  stufv about rockets on the Missouri archive.  The only trouble is
that a fair amount of the formulae seem to be contradictory.  If  when
replying you could include some worked example I would be grateful.  I
would like to know :
a) how to build rockets for FF&S1 and
b) what their performance is.

I have even read  the old Hard TImes and Challenge 45 &47(?) articles  (one
small step and two small steps), but none of this is any cleare.

Okay, so you need a certain (rotational) velocity to achieve 

low earth orbit (2% of PD - but what is a reasonable range of figures)
Stable orbit (3 Planetary Diameters - but aren't their an infinite number,
or is this a point at which the gravitional attraction beytween two bodies
is below a certain threshold (which is?)
escape velocity .
How are these calculated for different world and atmoshpere types.  (The
atmosphere stops below low earth orbit  right?)

Which of the formulae listed is correct for calculting trhe velocity change
needed to reach a certain orbit?

Do they assume the rotational velocity of the planet in question as a
staring point?

You do need to beat local gravity to get off the ground, how is this
factored in?

I cannt figure how the units come out in the equation foe DV they need to
be m/s.

ISP is given in imperial units while elsewhere metric units are used, but
it doesn't matter does it because the ration of masses is the same.

And a lot more of the same.

There is no 'power' listed in the table for which the term power is given
in the key.

So if someone could step ne through the design sequence and orbital
colculations, while I go away and read 

Canonical List

of

Space Transport and Engineering Methods




Version 0.75               28 Jun 1994

I would be very grateful?

oops ther go another 12 satelites!

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:44:34 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

>Canvas (3.5 or 5), MacDraw Pro and soon I will try PT Modeler (which
>should produce an external view also)

You mean PT/Modeler 2.0, the $3000 Unix CAD package? Wow. Please post any
designs you make with that.
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:42:42 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: OK, how to pronounce it...

Joe Pettit wrote:

> Well, what about the UR?
> is it gOORps like guru? or gERps

The latter, of course, as in:
purple, purse, turnip, blurb, curb, suburb, burr, cur, hurdle, hurl,
lurk, murk, surf, surge, turtle, turkey, turf, turmoil, and turn.


> And the S? is it like a Z or an S?
>

> For that matter, the R could be soft like in New York or Boston...

I assume your just trolling now.  The R in New York is not silent,
and in Boston, the R is dropped only in certain local dialects, as
in "Pak the ca in havad yad."  But they say Red Sox just fine.

> The only way I've ever heard it pronounced is G as in ghost ERPS

This would be the standard american english pronunciation.

Bloo
(as in Blue).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:54:26 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: "Troops"

David J. Golden wrote:

>         The Quicktime 3 full video is only 26Mb ... I didn't feel like
> downloading 5 separate chunks of the video, OR dealing with 70+M--it
> was significantly quicker to just grab QT3 at the same time.

Didn't know that.  I d/led it a very long time ago.  Took a while to find
a server that wasn't swamped.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:44:52 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

>>The Traveller Deckplans webring is up and running. Got a deckplan on
>>your page? Come on by our home page, join up, we'd be happy to have
>>you.
>
>This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
>done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
>the plans?  
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kurt Feltenberger

 I have used Superpaint (Mac), MacDraft, and most recently ClarisWorks 5. The
features I've found most useful/important are: control over line centering,
good gridsnap controls and easy changes of line width, color and texture. The
ability to make the document larger than a single page helps too, but hasn't
been a problem since very early...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:44:59 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809

snip
> I am
>playing a a large scale Empire Builder with Rob Biggar as the game master.
>Any ideas anyone could give me on ways to improve tech levels would be
>appreciated.  The average tech level of the planet around us is 5 while we
>are able to produce tech level 15.  How can we bring them up to speed, not
>destroy there culture, and as a corporate entity still make a profit.
>
>Leo
>
You could try the rules from PE if you have a copy.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:53:09 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TL11 Tramp freighter 

No Makefile, so I typed 'make main' and it compiled.

Worked, too, kindasorta.  It won't let me get above a 20 ton hull.  <sigh>

What you running over there?  I'm using Red Hat 4.1 & some weird enhancements, 
libc5, & gcc 2.7.2.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:29:24 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires:more trouble (longish)2

At 23:51 6/09/98 +0800, you wrote:
>I have a few Pocket Empire problenms:
>
>A) When do you resolve planetary devolpment tasks?
>1-When The RUs are paid
>2-when the nominal time is up
>3- during the immediate resolution phase (10)
>
>The last seems most likely since otherwise oustanding success will come to
>late in time (Oh we finished doing that 30 yrs ago) or Could deliver an
>overly large bonus (Oh no how do I spend 1200 RU in a single turn, My GWP
>is only 250!)  However it means that failures are immediete, even if I
>have not spent the money.  
>
>B) If I fail a planetary development meta-task, does it cost any RU?, Do I
>lose what I would have spent?  Spectacular failure on Infrastructure
>seems to imply not. 
>
>C) How does popularity work?  It says (Part 6 p. 55) the popularity action
>bonus "is determined by the sauccess (or failure) of any world-scale
>meat-tasks undertaken in previous turns."  What meta tasks?  The only ones
>I can think of are planetary development, and these have no popularity
>effects except inasmuch as they modify BASE poularity.
>Does leadership carry over with action bonus? I think not but...
>
>D) When a new world is  added (whether willingly or not )to the empire
>what
>happens to the
>poularity? (p.55) states that its popularity is "inverted" and becomes the
>new values?  Is this a change in base popularity (surely not) or more
>likely an Action Bonus?  (&if so then it may be more than 15)  If the
>latter then it continues on until eroded
>by +ve points. (And I can find no way of earning them)
> 
>E) Part 3 p. 29 states that "popularity = Base + Action bonus" leadersip
>is
>not mentioned? Action bonus is defined in terms of presige modifers
>(glossary p. 98); are there suposed to be two different kinds of action
>bonus (which I think is the case?)
>
>F) Part 7 page 66 states that when a world is forcibly added to the empire
>;
>you shpuld set the popularity to "15 less the current popularity"  does
>this refer to  base popularity or total popularity?  is it vsupposed to be
>an
>action bonus?  How does the restriction  on its application (only
>forcibly acquired worlds) square with 'D' above?
>
>G) There seem to be some tables missing.
>
>H) Part 7 p. 73 suggests that unilateral metatasks listed in this chapeter
>impact upon "World realtionships, Relationships and popularity";
>popularity seems to refer only to PE prrestige, and not popularity in
>general - is this the case?  What is the difference between "world
>realationships" and "relationships" -  I thought that there were only
>relationships between PEs?  Given the effects of Bi-lateral meta-tasks(p.
>76), it seems that only the meta-tasks previous to the section "impact on
>World..." p. 73 and only in Part 7 are so affected by that section - is
>this true?
>
>I am utterely mystified by some of this.  My copy is listed as being
>edition 4.1.  If anyone can help I would be grateful.
>
>Colin
> 
>A couple more I would like to add:

I) Since culture is so important in resolving planetary development meta
tasks, why is there no 'culture change' meta-task?

J)Should the task DMs from unilateral meta-tasks be available for planetary
development. i.e. can I opt to to make a successfull formidable roll with
thr relevant skill to get a +2 drm?

Colin

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #811
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 11 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 812



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Jannix Part 2 (longish)
Jannix Part 1
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #805
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #802
Jannix part 3
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Hivers (Long)
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Hivers (Long)
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Hivers (Long)
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Deluxe Traveller
Fire, Fusion, & Steel 2 spreadsheet (v3.2) now available
Re: Hivers (Long)
Star System Jump Point Cascade (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:51:34 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

> >I'd suspected that was what the Hivers did to scare of the K'Kree, 
but
> >I hadn't heard the details. What's the source of this?
I believe there is also some info on that in Hivers and Ilthkur
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:06:44 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809

>      Hi, my name is Leo and I just joined this little tea party.  I 
am
> playing a a large scale Empire Builder with Rob Biggar as the game 
master.
> Any ideas anyone could give me on ways to improve tech levels would 
be
> appreciated.  The average tech level of the planet around us is 5 
while we
> are able to produce tech level 15.  How can we bring them up to 
speed, not
> destroy there culture, and as a corporate entity still make a 
profit.
You could give away all your resources in a grand socio-politico 
martyr kind of gesture, I'm sure that would bring it up a notch or 
two.  Course, you'd be broke.....but the campaign would have a very 
nice feel good ending...
Rob (the GM)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:41:59 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Richard Hough wrote:

>>Canvas (3.5 or 5), MacDraw Pro and soon I will try PT Modeler (which
>>should produce an external view also)
>
>You mean PT/Modeler 2.0, the $3000 Unix CAD package? Wow. Please post
any
>designs you make with that.

sorry it is the stripped down student NT4 version, very slow to work
with.  I wish it was the unix version.  I don't have a web site to post
them to yet but when I finish the first one I will ask for some help
then with a site.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:10:59 -0700
From: Robert Biggar <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Jannix Part 2 (longish)

Jannix Cooperative

The Jannix Cooperative occupies an area of space on the trailing edge of
Zhodani territory.  These two races have fought a number of small
skirmishes, which is where most of this data comes from.  The Jannix were
first encountered in the year 1106 when a Zhodani scout cruiser, the
Zephone, was found dead in orbit around the moon of the planer Destrier in
the Qwan subsector.  After being boarded, it was found the crew had been
slaughtered to a man by an as yet unidentified group of insectoid
creatures.  Four dead specimens were found on board the Zephone.  After
careful study (the results of which are published elsewhere), it was
determined that a new threat had presented itself to the Zhodani people.  A
modest fleet was dispatched to the subsector and ordered to track these
creatures' movements or where they had come from.

Fleet 27 arrived at Destrier early in 1107 and spent several months
searching with no results other than discovering two traders that had been
reported missing in Qwan months ago.  They both showed signs of damage by
alien weapons and in one case a small piece of hull was found from an
unknown ship amid the wreckage of a trader.  This hull metal was tested and
found to be above bonded superdense technology.

On the way back to Sector HQ for refit, Fleet 27 was attacked at a gas
giant refueling station.  The ambush had obviously been set for a while as
the enemy ships came out of the asteroid ring where they had lain dormant
undetected by the stations automated sensors.  The fight was brief as
superior weapons and faster ships overwhelmed Fleet 27.  They did manage to
destroy a 5000 ton destroyer class ship and cripple three 800 ton hulls,
one of which headed into the gas giant while the other two smashed into the
refueling station.  Two Zhodani escorts were able to jump away, but the
other 6 ships were lost with all hands.  After examining the battle report,
the Zhodani sent a large attack armada into the system to resolve the
situation once and for all.  Upon exiting jump, they found the entire base
ravaged to bare rock and very little debris to indicate anything had ever
been there.  They headed trailward intending to track the aliens down. 
After several jumps with no further evidence encountered, they came to a
system unexplored for 16 years.  They discovered a base in orbit around the
4th planet with several ships close by.  Proceeding on attack vector, the
Zhodani engaged and managed to defeat the base and ships with heavy
casualties to themselves.  A horrific fight ensued after the Zhodani
admiral ordered his marines to take the planetary base located close to a
mountain range.  The marines fought hand to pincher in close quarter's
combat with the insectoids as most of the base turned out to be
underground.  Over 1500 troops died in the action, but they took the
facility.  Several aliens were captured alive only due to incapacitating
wounds, in all other cases the aliens fought to the death.  Among those
captured was one different from the rest, this one was capable of psionic
activity.  The best Psions the Zhodani had were employed to wrench
information from the creature's mind.

The Psions found out much about the Jannix, as the creatures called
themselves, before it succumbed to the telepathic onslaught.  The Jannix
had originally come from a system some 30 parsecs further trailing, a total
of 5 subsectors away from the Zhodani border.  This base the Zhodani found
had been established as a frontier colony/raiding post.  Almost the entire
strength of the Jannix in the area had been destroyed in the two actions to
date.  The Psions learned of at least two other colonies to spinward.  The
Jannix cooperate with another race known only as the Builders.  This race
did not accompany the Jannix on their forward deployments.  It was learned
there are three classes of Jannix, Warriors, Technicians and Leaders. They
all have differing abilities, but all are extremely deadly creatures (see
technical notes).  The Builders outfit the Jannix with all their equipment
but the inherent bioweapons.  The Builders technology level appears to be
17 with some minor discrepancies.  The Jannix themselves are TL 4, but they
are capable of using most technological devices, just not building them. 
This is probably due to their lack of fine manual dexterity.  The Jannix
also appear to subjugate other races (less intelligent) to do most manual
labor tasks.  Many Gordas (a race of semi intelligent herbivore primates)
were found at the Jannix base, although these were killed in the fighting. 
The Zhodani became rapidly convinced they had to make preemptive strikes on
these other bases, as the Jannix/Builders alliance was far too dangerous to
remain unchecked.  The main problem the Zhodani had in coming to grips with
the Jannix was the technology gap.  The Jannix ships required no jump fuel,
apparently using psi-drive technology, so could leave anytime.  Also the
ships had a significant advantage in electronic countermeasure ability. 
However, the Zhodani's quantitative edge along with their much larger ships
were able to eradicate the Jannix's other two bases and many starships. 
The Zhodani also reported at least three ships they caught on the ground
but were unable to do anything about as they were protected by some sort of
force field impervious to weapon fire.  These locations are not known to
any but the Zhodani military.

For the next four decades the Zhodani had no further problems or encounters
with Jannix until the evacuation to the new Regency began.  The evacuation
pulled the Zhodani protected border in by many parsecs.  As of the current
date (1202), there have been a few scattered reports of Jannix encounters
in that area.  The Zhodani, affected as they are by Vampire problems, have
been unable to do much about these new incursions.  The most distressing
news is that the Jannix appear to be working with Vampire ships in some
instances.  To this date, no specimens of the Builder race have been
encountered although there have been reports of new mechanized fighting
machines acting with or around Jannix/Vampire activity.  These machines
generally have a humanoid form and a Vampire attitude.  It is believed that
this threat left unchecked could rival that of the virus release.  The
Zhodani offer large grants for information leading to destruction or
capture of Jannix/Builder technology, any information regarding whereabouts
or scientific data is also rewarded.

The Jannix are known to prefer underground installations and cooler
temperatures, their exoskeleton changes color from black to blues the
warmer it gets, although it appears to have no effect on their activities. 
They have been known to survive in vacuum for short periods of time.  This
is due to a lack of respiration, their bodily functions are almost all
organic chemicals, they do not require air to "breath" although they do
require oxygen for some functions.  The Jannix are the most deadly
intelligent race known at this time from a purely physical standpoint.

They seem to have no concept of surrender or truce and show no desire to
communicate with other species with the exception of their subjugate races.
 The leader types are capable of psionic communication and other psionic
abilities.  Their overall racial strategy has eluded Zhodani scientists, as
there is no evidence of a cohesive attempt to gain large chunks of
territory.  The Jannix raid into systems at random but make no effort to
retain what they take.  It is believed they are searching for something of
use to them or the Builders.  There has been evidence of burrowing/mining
at the few sites on planets where Jannix have been encountered, but this is
believed to be for breeding chambers.  There have also been stockpiles of
several naturally occurring minerals and organic compounds found at these
sites.  None of which are particularly valuable in a monetary or military
sense.  It is believed that these are the substances the Jannix need for
breeding or other bodily functions.

The Jannix life cycle has been documented to some degree.  It is know that
they are asexual and produce egg sacs, which are stored in vats of
chemical, most of which are naturally occurring substances.  The gestation
period is unknown as all eggs that were captured failed to mature.  There
was one encounter that included an immature form of Jannix, which was much
weaker than an adult but was still capable of combat.  It is believed the
Jannix mature very quickly and most of their skills are telepathic implants
rather than learned individual experience.  It is assumed that the class of
a given Jannix is determined by a combination of its egg development and
it's telepathic implants.  It is unknown whether a leaders psionic ability
is inherited or random chance.  The oldest Jannix body recovered was 8
standard years old.  The Jannix are capable of "growing" a part of their
body from the two manipulator arms.  The typical parts, which are all
organic based; are their weapons, tools, and computer interface devices. 
There have been reports of other strange things, but it is very rare and
probably misinterpreted.

The Jannix have several classes of starships.  There have been encounters
with 400, 800, 1200 and 5000 ton vessels.  They are known to use at least
two small craft, a 50 and a 100-ton, both of these are believed to be jump
capable as well.  An APC type vehicle and an AFV tank have been seen, but
both of these were land vehicles.  This is one apparent discrepancy to the
Builder technology level, contra-grav has not been seen in use on anything
smaller than 50 tons.  Another is that small arms and support weapons are
all organic based.  Starships are the only ones that have "normal"
weaponry.  They also seem to have a limited self-repair capability as well
as AI or self-aware computers.  Captured equipment has defied most attempts
to use or interface with it.  The only successes have been by the strongest
telepaths.

This concludes the report as listed Restricted Access
Zhodani/Regency Liaison Office

Once again, if anyone would like to use this info feel free.  Please use my
name (Rob Biggar) when crediting.  Thanks, Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:16:26 -0700
From: Robert Biggar <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Jannix Part 1

Jannix Cooperative

	The Jannix are a race of insectoid creatures somewhat similar 
in appearance to the Terran Rhinoceros Beetle.  They average 2.5 
meters in height and 1.5 in width.  They have four major limbs, two 
small connector appendages in the upper third of the body and a pair 
of large cutting horns out the top of the shell.  Normal locomotion 
is accomplished on all fours although they are capable of standing on 
either set of limbs for extended periods.  A dense carapace covers 
the back and sides of the Jannix and the front is also protected, 
although to a lesser degree, by a chitin exoskeleton. The Jannix are 
colored from flat black to dark blue and deep purple, this seems to 
be influenced by the ambient temperature of the environment.

	The smaller connector appendages are usually attached to an 
organic weapon which fires chitin shells filled with acid/bile.  
These shells appear to be the Jannixs waste material and are highly 
toxic to humanoids.  Sometimes the Jannix are seen with other organic 
devices in place of these weapons, including computer interfaces and 
medical/repair devices, but these are very rare and the Jannix seem 
to go to great lengths to protect these.  There have been reports of 
flying Jannix, but it is more likely the creature's capability of 
jumping up to 30 meters high and 50 meters forward with the carapace 
spread out.

	The social structure of the Jannix is relatively unknown. 
Whenever they have been encountered in the wilds, there has been a 
vampire ship nearby.  It is believed somehow there exists a working 
relationship between the two.  This could be a dire threat to the 
Regency, but so far there have been no known incursions into our 
space.  The Jannix are unrelenting in the pursuit of their goals, 
whatever they may be.  A live specimen has never been taken for 
study.  Scientific perusal of dead ones has yielded some facts 
however.  Their blood is very acidic, to the point of damaging most 
container vessels.  They are capable of ingesting minerals but prefer 
organic materials.  They have internal organs capable of producing 
chemical physiological enhancers that can give them great strength 
and endurance for a short period.  They also have the ability to 
reproduce items of technology, converting the items inside the body 
and then expelling them.  This appears to be limited to small and 
uncomplex items, less than .2 cubic meters in volume and 5 kg in 
weight.  It is not understood how their other equipment such as ships 
or vehicles are manufactured as they have no fine manipulative 
ability.

	Some of the technology recovered from them indicates an 
advance level, perhaps as high as 17 in some instances.  Zhodani 
scientists believe that they must work with or have subjugated 
another race capable of these tasks.  The Zhodani have encountered 
the Jannix on a number of occasions, leading them to much greater 
knowledge of these creatures.  This is also where we get the term 
Jannix Cooperative.  However, with our no contact policy in effect, it 
is difficult to make any other assumptions or conclusions at this 
time.

Sincerely yours,

Professor Corwin R. Scorcese
University of Regina



If any one would like to use this material and the follow up sections 
in their campaigns or list it on a web page, feel free.  Just please 
list me as the original author, thanks,  Rob Biggar

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:13:41 +0100
From: Julia and Chris <julia-and-chris@compute-ability.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #805

Hard-to-find Traveller items for sale
All Excellent or Good condition
Worst damage is weathered spine, folded pages etc.

Publisher
        Item                                            Asking Price
Digest Group
        Traveller's Digest 7, 10, 18, 19, 20, 21         $10 each
        Traveller's Digest Early Adventures              $10
        MegaTraveller Journal 3                          $10
FASA
        High Passage 1, 2, 3 (2 copies), 4 5             $10 each
        Far Traveller 1                                  $10
        Stazhlekh Report / Harrensa Project              $10
Gamelords
        Undersea Environment                             $10
        Drenslaar Quest                                  $10
        Duneraiders                                      $10
        Ascent to Athkenor                               $10
Paranoia
        Vanguard Reaches                                 $10
        SORAG                                            $10
        Scouts & Assassins (2nd Ed)                      $10
        Merchants & Merchandise                          $20
Group One
        Marinagua                                        $10
GDW
        Best of JTAS 2                                   $10
        Special Supplement 3 (Missiles)                  $2
        Challenge Magazines 32, 42, 44                   $5 each
        Arrival Vengeance                                $10
        Assignment Vigilante                             $10
        Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora Sector            $10
        Beltstrike                                       $15
        Tarsus                                           $15
        Alien Realms                                     $15
Games Workshop
        IISS Ship Files                                  $20

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:50:24 +0100
From: Julia and Chris <julia-and-chris@compute-ability.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #802

In message <199809062334.TAA12665@phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM>, Traveller-
digest <owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com> writes
>Was there ever a game called Spinward Marches released?  I do not refer to
>the supplement, but either a boxed set or perfect bound volume about A$ in
>size?
>Colin

I belive that you might be thiking of The Spinward Marches Campaign -
A4, colour cover, feeble 'adventure' mainly a wealth of background
detail on the SM, esp. in relation to the 5FW
- -- 
Julia and Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:56:36 -0700
From: Robert Biggar <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Jannix part 3

Jannix Part 3

Jannix Soldiers

Str 10(15)
Ag 8
Con 10(15)
Int 5
Edu 5
Cha 1
Init 5
Move: 2/4
Wounds: 40 (20 serious), 60 (40) when using boost
Combat Assets: Armed martial Arts-16, Slug Weapon-16, Heavy Weapons-14
Other Assets: Willpower-6, Driving-14
Soldiers have the ability to increase their Str and Con stats by 5 for 10
combat turns twice a day.  This boost comes from chemicals produced in an
internal organ.  They go dormant for 2 combat turns when it wears off
unless the second boost is used.  Soldiers may leap up to 30 meters high
and 50 meters forward instead of their normal move using their carapace
wings to assist once every 10 combat turns.  This requires and Average
Agility task.  Soldiers carry a Jannix Rifle at all times.  They are also
capable of emitting a tear gas/ smoke cloud with a 10 meter radius once a
day.

Jannix Technicians

Str 8
Ag 8
Con 8
Int 10
Edu 8
Cha 1
Init 4
Move 2/4
Wounds: 30 (15)
Combat Assets:  Armed Martial Arts-12, Slug Weapon-12
Other Assets: Engineering, Mechanic, Electronics, Sensors, and
Communications all at -14
	Driving-12. Pilot IG-14 Astrogation-14
Technicians try to avoid combat if possible, but are not defenseless.  They
have none of the Soldier special abilities, but are adept at reasoning. 
Roll difficult Int to use unfamiliar tech.  Technicians carry a Jannix
Pistol.

Jannix Leaders

Str 12 (17)
Ag 8
Con 10 (15)
Int 12
Edu 12
Cha 1 (10 to Jannix)
Psi 10
Init 7
Move 2/4
Wounds 60 (45), 80 (60) when using boost
Combat Assets: Armed Martial Arts-20, Slug Weapon-18
Other Assets: Same as Technicians plus: Leadership-18, Telempathy and one
other discipline at random-18, Willpower-14, Liaison-13, Language-13
Jannix Leaders have all special abilities of Warriors.  They always carry a
Jannix Rifle and a translator device.

		ROF	Dam Val	Pen Rtg		Short Range	Special
Jannix Rifle	SA1	12		1-2-2		100		2C, 5B

Jannix Pistol	3	6		1-2-2		50		1C, 5B

Cloud		1	nil		nil		0		4C, 10B (unprotected)

Chitin Cannon	SA1	125		1/2-1/2-1	300		10C, 20B


		AV Front	AV Side/Rear
Warriors		4		8
Technicians	2		4
Leaders		6		12

APC		100		80
(suspension)	20		20

AFV		220		120
(turret)		220		40
(suspension)	20		20

APC is armed with 4 Jannix Rifles, has a move of 40/60 and can carry 6
Jannix plus driver and gunner

AFV is armed with Chitin Cannon, has a move of 30/50 and can carry 2 Jannix
plus driver and gunner

Hope you all Enjoy this series, I do have some ships designed for them, but
they are on spreadsheets.  If you would like these too please mail me
direct.
Standard disclaimers, Rob Biggar

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 05:58:14 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

That is a veggie bar.  So really, I have a problem with the Vargr eating 
veggies....  :-)


>
>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people 
wondering why
>the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next 
to a
>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
>

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:28:31 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long)

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> I'm wondering what kind of culture any survivors of the sterilisation would
> have after so long out of contact.  If those worlds were interdicted for that
> long, surely they thought *something* survived down there...  <grin>

After the sterilization probably used, there might be some interesting fungi
down there, but that's about it. While fungi can develop in some interesting
culture, culturally, they still pretty much stink.

It's still interdicted because the K'Kree don't do _anything_ in half measure.
Those worlds will _never_ be opened up again.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:53:36 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 05:58 AM 9/11/1998 PDT, you wrote:
>That is a veggie bar.  So really, I have a problem with the Vargr eating 
>veggies....  :-)

No, canines are actually omnivores -- if you plan
the diet right, you actually can have a healthy
vegetarian dog (and just take a good look at the
ingredients in dog food).

But, naturally, meat's preferred.

JB

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:33:27 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long)

In a message dated 9/10/98 11:10:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< Heheh.  A one-stop resupply shop.  Reminds me of the evidence room in most 
 major metro police stations...  <grin>
  >>
 Why do you think we used to call our prisoners "skels" :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:10:45 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:
>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people
>wondering why
>the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next to a
>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...

That's easy to explain. Look at the Hiver.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:37:29 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long)

From: warlock@imagin.net

<snipped nice summary of the Hiver-K'kree war>

>That's right, folks. Interdicted in -2213 and still going. That's about
>equal to becoming interdicted around the beginning of the Egyption
>civilization and continuing through today. Talk about paranoid.

The K'kree probably thing of those worlds as a form of Hell: an evil,
twisted place full of very dangerous... things.  Defiled and defiling.
Best avoided, forever.

>Ya gotta love the Ithklur....

Even as a typical anti-New Era guy, I feel that Liar's & Lizard's were
among the best works put out by GDW.  Many didn't like the current
references, but nevermind, the Ithklur were still fun, and the HIver's
nicely
developed.

I wonder, how can you get the Ithklur to the Marches....?

Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:31:47 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Clarisworks 5?... CLARISWORKS 5!!!?... I just bought Clarisworks 4 because my
school district uses it...DOH!!! pass the donuts...  Seriously when did it
come out, and what's the difference between it and claris 4?

Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to be on the
losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating (g--d--n 166mz piece
of junk!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:54:38 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Deluxe Traveller

There's a copy of Deluxe Traveller up for bid at www.ebay.com , nice
looking box, includes poster map of the Spinward Marches, little black
books and _Adventure 0: The Imperial Fringe_.

Has anyone read Adventure 0? What's in it? 

I have _The Traveller Book_ - are there any differences between what
comes in Deluxe Traveller and what I read in my hardcover, besides the
pleasure of having the original LBB's?

I bid the thing up to farther than I wanted to in an insane impulse to read 
Adventure 0...glad someone outbid me. <g>


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:20:55 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Fire, Fusion, & Steel 2 spreadsheet (v3.2) now available

Version 3.2 of my FF&S2 spreadsheet is now available. The
fixes/changes/additions are:

* Changed the density of Grav Compensators to 2t/m3.
* Changed some formating on the USP page.	This fixed a problem with some
numbers being unreadable on large ships.
* Changed Internal Cargo Bays and Cargo Grapples to allow for cargo
densities greater/less than 1. This can be used to simulate special cargo
haulers (such as ore haulers, where their cargo is denser than normal).
* Fixed the Excel weapon save macros from the Excel97 version.
* Removed the Lightweight Save macros and Weapon save macros from the
Excel95 version. This appears to cause a problem in Excel 95 that prevents
the TLSet macro from working. This appears to fix it.
* Added crewstations for small craft.

As usual, the sheet can be found on my web site,
www.ames.net/igor/traveller/index.htm

The spreadsheet can be found in the File List section, or in the Operations
sections of the Frames/No Frames areas...

Let me know if there are any problems/concerns...

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                         |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/ - AOL IM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AOL IM: CMS AndyA  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+    |
|       vi+ da+                                                        |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+      |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                             |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:23:44 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long)

alvin plummer wrote:
>
> 
> I wonder, how can you get the Ithklur to the Marches....?
>

Tell 'em Joe's Original K'Kree BBQ House is open...;-)

<duck!>

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:00:06 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Star System Jump Point Cascade (long)

I was looking through JTAS #22 a couple nights ago, re-read the article
"Port to Jump-Point by ...hmmm, initials L.G., author's name escapes
me at the moment. Drat. Leroy Guateman, IIRC was his name.

Anyway, part of the article dealt with the idea of Star System Jump
Point Cascades. For those who haven't read it, the idea is as follows:

A massive body, in the stellar mass range, disrupts jumpspace for
approximately 1000AU in all directions. Smaller masses within that 
1000AU range disrupt jumpspace to a lesser extent. This "Jump Vortex"
forms difficult terrain for a ship exiting jumpspace, limiting it's 
available exit points.

In an environment far from these Jump Vortices, such as deep interstellar
space, there is no disruption of jumpspace beyond that caused by the
100 diameter limit. Your jump drives act on the mass of your ship,
sending it anywhere within reach, precipitating out into realspace when
you intersect the 100 diameter limit of your target - or right at your target,
if you are aiming at empty space.

Within the Jump Vortex of a star system, things get much more complex.
The disruptions of jumpspace limit your choices based on how powerful
your jump drives are, and based on the star system's Jump Point Cascade.

In the cascade, the most massive body in the system (the sun) is
the Jump-1 point. The next most massive is the Jump-2 point (probably
the gas giant), right on down to the smallest mass (Jump-several-1000).

A Jump-1 ship (like our popular Free Trader) will exit jumpspace at the
system's Jump-1 point. A Far Trader's Jump-2 drive would be powerful
enough to allow a choice between Jump-1 and Jump-2 points, and
so on - even if the Far Trader was arriving from a Jump-1 transit, it
could still take advantage of it's better jump drives.

Similarly, the quality of jump drives affects how in-system (jump-0)
jumps are made. For each parsec capability in your drives, you can
change one jump point. For example, a Free Trader at a system's
gas giant (the Jump-2 point) could do a jump-0 and go to the
100-d limit of the system primary (the Jump-1 point) or make it to
the smaller gas giant (the Jump-3 point).

Note that a jump point can be occluded by the 100d limit of a bigger
jump point. A gas giant within it's star's 100d limit might still be
the Jump-2 point of the system, but an attempt to exit jumpspace
at the gas giant's 100d limit would drop you out at the star's 100d
limit instead.

The above is a distillation of the article "From Port to Jump Point" 
from JTAS #22, copyright Far Future Enterprises, and is included 
to facilitate discussion with those who started Traveller after the 
Good 'Ol Days.

Now, for some ideas about the article above:

What effects would the above rules on jumpspace have on a campaign?
Ships can still leave when they hit 100d from the main world, but
they'll usually arrive much farther from it. And if the ship automatically
precipitates out of jumpspace on the side of 100d limit towards her
origin, she might come out on the wrong side of the system primary
from her destination.

Suddenly the rest of the star system becomes inhabited by ships,
instead of just the 100d sphere around the main world. Fast traders
may become even faster, as they use their better jump drives to come
out right next to the gas giant for refueling instead of a day or so away.
Incoming ships can be scattered for light-hours across a busy solar
system, depending on their system of origin and the quality of their
jump drives.

System Defense Boat duties just got harder. Ethically Challenged,
Well Armed Ship Masters may have their lives get easier.

I think I like it, and am surprised at myself that I didn't really see the
ramifications of L.G.'s article before.

Has anyone tried Jump Point Cascades in their Traveller universes?


Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #812
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 11 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 813



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Hivers (Long) 
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Traveller Code
Re: Hivers (Long) 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809
AKUS MOBY: Campaign Background
AKUS MOBY: Subsector K
{Announcement] New List Forming!!
AKUS MOBY: Meeting on Argent
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Traveller Code
Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:04:26 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long) 

> In a message dated 9/10/98 11:10:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> jamstar@glasscity.net writes:
> 
> << Heheh.  A one-stop resupply shop.  Reminds me of the evidence room in most 
>  major metro police stations...  <grin>
>   >>
>  Why do you think we used to call our prisoners "skels" :-)

ROFL!!!!!!!!!

Did they pay in cash, checks, or bearerbonds?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:10:09 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> Clarisworks 5?... CLARISWORKS 5!!!?... I just bought Clarisworks 4 because my
> school district uses it...DOH!!! pass the donuts...  Seriously when did it
> come out, and what's the difference between it and claris 4?
> 
> Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to be on the
> losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating (g--d--n 166mz piece
> of junk!)

Heh.  I've got a 486slc2-66 maxxed out to 16 megs of ram & a cheep 2 meg vlb 
video card.  Positively stoneaged.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Traveller Code

Where is the Traveller Code generator located? I did not find it with a
search.

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:44:09 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long) 

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > I'm wondering what kind of culture any survivors of the sterilisation would
> > have after so long out of contact.  If those worlds were interdicted for that
> > long, surely they thought *something* survived down there...  <grin>
> 
> After the sterilization probably used, there might be some interesting fungi
> down there, but that's about it. While fungi can develop in some interesting
> culture, culturally, they still pretty much stink.
> 
> It's still interdicted because the K'Kree don't do _anything_ in half measure.
> Those worlds will _never_ be opened up again.

Still, the thought of barbarian meat-eating K'kree *IS* intriguing...

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #809

> > I am
> >playing a a large scale Empire Builder with Rob Biggar as the game master.
> >Any ideas anyone could give me on ways to improve tech levels would be
> >appreciated.  The average tech level of the planet around us is 5 while we
> >are able to produce tech level 15.  How can we bring them up to speed, not
> >destroy there culture, and as a corporate entity still make a profit.

Make all introductions of higher technology in the form of toys. The
younger generation will accept it quickly, and their appetite for it will
be whetted. In a generation you'll have research scientists and high-tech
consumers.

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 17:42:03 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: AKUS MOBY: Campaign Background

AKUS MOBY PBEM Campaign

BACKGROUND I

The current year for the campaign is 997 CE (current era).


Political Geography -

The Confederated Systems of Argent (CSA) is located near the Rimward
end of a ribbon of stars (The Quental Main) that extends several
hundred light years core and spinward.  Outside the Main the stars
are very scattered in this sector.
                        
 =============================================
 | QUENTAL MAIN   ..                .        |
 |        SECTOR    ..  Unexplored .         |
 |                    ...          .         |
 |                       .         .         |
 |                    . .  Explored .        |
 |     C             .      Systems  ..      |
 |     |            .\ \       \ \ \ \ ..    |
 | S---+---T       .     \ \ \\          .   |
 |     |          .          \            .  |
 |     R           . Zeristu \   CSA    ..   |
 |                .  Empire  \       ...     |
 |  \ border     .          \   ..  .        |
 |              .            \ .  ..         |
 |  C coreward  .             .              |
 |  R rimward    .     .... ..               |
 |  S spinward    ..  .    .                 |
 |  T trailing      ..                       |
 |                                           |
 =============================================                  

The CSA is bordered on it's spinward side by the Zeristu Empire.
The Zeristu Empire's size is not completely known, but appears to be
about the same size and strength as the CSA.  The CSA and Zeristu
came into contact, and conflict, a little over 60 years ago, and
have fought 2 wars and several skirmishes over the years.  Today
there is an uneasy peace between these two, largest, states, but CSA
citizens are still restricted to visiting only the border areas of
the Zeristu Empire.

Coreward from the CSA there is a region of explored systems along
the Quental Main.  This area includes a few multi-system states, but
most inhabited systems are unaffiliated with any other.  The CSA and
Zeristu have been slowly moving coreward through this area for the
last 40 years.

Beyond the explored region is the main body of the Quental Main.
Little is known of this area or the areas beyond.  Explorers,
merchants, and adventurers who venture into the "great beyond"
return some reliable data, but with even more tales.


Cultural Geography - 

There are a wide variety of Humanoid races and species occupying the
known areas of the Quental Sector.  The main Human races in the
sector are Solomani and Vilani, but each have several distinct
sub-races.  Smaller numbers of Sylean, Zhodani and Geonee are
scattered through out the sector.  Northwest of the CSA
(core-spinward), are a number of worlds occupied mainly by Vargr,
and information from explorers place a number of Aslan dominated
worlds beyond known space to core-trailing.

Within the CSA humans, of all races, form 90% of the population,
Vargr at 8% make up most of the rest.  Small groups of various other
species make up the remaining 2%.  Although we have no direct
evidence, it appears the Zeristu Empire has approximately the same
proportions.

Ancient History - 

You've all heard the stories as children..."Once upon a time, there
was a Empire of all Humaniti called the Imperium that ruled most of
the galaxy from it's capitol, a planet called Core.  Then a terrible
civil war ripped the mighty Imperium apart.  The races of man warred
with each other, each claiming their right to rule all of space.
Their great fleets sweep across the heavens destroying everything in
their paths.  Weapons beyond our comprehension were invented,
weapons capable of exploding the very stars in the skies.  The
wizards of the warring navies brought their machines to life, and
even after the wizards were long dead their machines fought on.
Eventually, the universe itself shuddered and died, and after the
darkness we were reborn."  Although, these are stories there *is*
more than a smidgen of truth to them.

About 5,000 years ago there was a interstellar war in this area.  It
has come to be called the "Great War."  Very few records from before
this war exist, but from what little archaeologists and historians
have put together there was an Imperium and a civil war.  Current
thought is that this Imperium probably covered most of this sector,
but a single government spanning the galaxy is unbelievable.  From
the name given to the Imperium's capitol, we conclude that the
Imperium's center was located coreward of us, perhaps somewhere in
the unexplored part of the Quental Main.

A continuing mystery is what happened at the end of the Great War.
The few intact and deciphered records from this period indicate the
war was winding down with much of their civilization still intact,
when a gap in the records appears.  The gap in information is called
the Darkness and from the myths and legends is "when the universe
died."  During this mysterious Darkness, almost all the remaining
Imperial civilization was destroyed, leaving scattered ruins, dead
systems, and no record of what happened.  Several hundred years
later the survivors had rebuilt and relearned enough to begin
keeping records again.  The early records seldom looked back beyond
the last generation, and except for stories like the one above have
little to say about the Great Darkness.


Recent History -

King Sui Wu undertook the final unification of Argent in -14 BC, and
was proclaimed Planetary Protector in the year 0.  The Wu dynasty's
promotion of peaceful development and trade created a strong and
wealthy merchant class that eventually became the driving force
leading Argent back into space.

Argent achieved interstellar flight just less than 300 years ago,
the first planet in the local cluster to do so.  Until recently
travel was limited to slower than light "sleeper ships."  These
early explorers and settlers discovered recovering civilizations and
ancient ruins all across the subsector.

The development of jump technology in 903 allowed Argent to complete
the exploration of this subsector, and found the Confederated
Systems of Argent.  The CSA's main purpose has always been to
promote and protect trade among the member states, and in this role
did not historically maintain a large military force.  Contact with
the Zeristu changed this.

The Zeristu are an aggressive and militaristic culture.  They have
repeatedly attacked the CSA states and our allies during the last 60
years.  We have developed a strong Army and Navy to oppose them, and
during the recent war, 993-996, stopped their expansion with the
defense of Kasaan, Cathay and Vito.  The limit of the Zeristu's
trailing borders has been stopped at the Harkin-Wozo-Bern line, and
negotiations continue in attempts to liberate allied systems that
have fallen to the Zeristu.


The Worlds of the CSA -

Government -

The CSA's member worlds maintain their independence, and are
different in many ways.  As a unified group, they give their support
to the governing bodies of the CSA:  the Confederation Senate, the
Ministries, and the Protector.

The Senate meets continuously at Maston, Argent, and acts as the
legislative body for the CSA.  It's powers are limited to
interstellar affairs, trade policies, and funding and support for
defense forces.  Each member world sends 3 Senators to serve in the
Confederation Senate.

The Ministries of the Protector administer the laws and regulations
passed by the Senate.  The Chief Secretaries for each Ministry are
nominated by the Protector and confirmed by the Senate.

The Protector is the Chief Executive Officer and ceremonial leader
of the CSA.  The Senate elects the Protector for life from
candidates nominated by each member system.  Traditionally, the
monarch of Argent is elected as Protector.  Protector Codelia Wu,
Queen of Argent is the current Confederation Protector, ascending to
the chair in 988.

Argent (A7668C5-A) -  Star: Nota Ter (G2V)

Argent is the 4th planet of the Nota Ter system.  It is a temperate
planet with large oceans.  The main population centers are on
Hollis, a group of 3 large islands in the southern temperate zone,
and Jasta, a continent sweeping around Hollis from the southeast
crossing the equator and spreading out into the northern temperate
zone.  The Hollis area recovered from the Great Darkness more
rapidly than the Jasta area and has historically been the leader in
all areas of Argent life.

The major city and capital Argent is Maston.  Maston is located on
the inner sea separating Hollis from Jasta.  It is built on the 6
hills overlooking the large protected harbor that has made it the
center of trade on Argent.

Large sections of Jasta is still undeveloped wilderness with most
development concentrated along the eastern seacoasts of the inner
sea.

Life on Argent is still fairly rural.  Most people live in small
towns and villages scattered thoughout the islands and on Jasta's
seacoast and temperate plains.  Culturally, most Argentians are
conservative in thought, dress, and action.  They are also
industrious, inventive, and avid explorers.

The two other inhabited planets of this system are Hothouse,
F482264-8 (Nota Ter-3), and IceBox, F553364-8 (Nota Ter-4).  These
are little more than outposts.  A small population occupies an
asteroid belt in orbit 6.

Gorath (C569743-9) - Star: Gorath (G2II & M4VI, close orbital binary)

Gorath is the 3rd planet of the Gorath system.  The population is
widely scattered on hundreds of small and medium sized islands.
Before explorers from Argent arrived in 811 Gorath had no cities and
was mired at TL4.  The Argent merchants set up shop on an unoccupied
island, which they called Port.  Today Port is the capital of
Gorath, and is the only real city on the planet.

The people of Gorath are typically more "laid back" than those of
Argent.  They are given to colorful dress, elaborate and loud
entertainment, and more liberal social practices.  Goranthans have a
reputation as fierce warriors and excellent engineers, somewhat
surprising given the rest of their culture's reputation.

Bonzi (B88467?-8) Star: Erlish (K1V)

Bonzi is the second planet in the Erlish system.  It is a large cool
world with no oceans, although there are several very salty seas and
a number of large lakes.
Bonzi has a number of independent states that have joined together
into a trading confederation to represent their interests in the
CSA.  The independent states on Bonzi have fought several small wars
since contact with Argent, but regardless of their conflicts on the
ground maintain a unified front in contact with the CSA.

Bonzi has several ancient Imperium sites that archeologists are
investigating.  From what little that has been found, it appears
that Bonzi was once a leading system in this area.

Culturally Bonzi is very diverse with each of the several nation
states having its own unique culture.  Bonzanies make up a
disproportionally large part of the CSA's enlisted army and navy,
often joking that they just joined to avoid all the fighting at
home.

Bolongi, the capital of the state Inido, is an important center of
culture in the CSA.  The University of Bolongi's Department of
Archeology is reknown through out the subsector and it's
entertainers are considered some of the best in Argent subsector.

Shaw (A767887-A) Star: Asa (F8V)

Shaw is the 6th planet of the Asa system, and was the first system
visited by Argent explorers.  The explorers found a virtually empty
world.  The few Shaw natives were clustered in three river valleys
stuck at TL2.  Settlers from Argent mixed with the natives, quickly
eliminating them as a seperate people.  Today most Shawers claim
kinship with the original natives..whether true or not.

Shaw is temperate, with large oceans and a single large continent
mostly in the nothern temperate zone.  It's population lives mainly
in the valleys of the three main rivers draining this continent.
There are several cities along the rivers that service the
surrounding farms, ranches and mines.

Shawers are considered the most outgoing and social of the CSA
members.  It is often remarked that their government, a faceless
civil service, is so gray they have to make up for it in their
personal lives.


Eris
(c) 1997-1998
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 17:55:33 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: AKUS MOBY: Subsector K

QUENTAL MAIN SECTOR (use monospaced font to view)

   SUBSECTOR K - ARGENT 

     ----           ----           ----           ----  
   / 0101 \       / 0301 \       / 0501 \       / 0701 \
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _
  \   N    /0201 \   N    /0401 \        /0601 \        /0801 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----           ----    U      ----           -
   / 0102 \       / 0302 \       / 0502 \       / 0702 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \        /0202 \   A    /0402 \        /0602 \   U    /0802 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----    A      ----           ----           -
   / 0103 \       / 0303 \       / 0503 \       / 0703 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \   Z    /0203 \        /0403 \        /0603 \        /0803 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----    A      ----    A      ----           ----           -
   / 0104 \       / 0304 \       / 0504 \       / 0704 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \        /0204 \        /0404 \   A    /0604 \        /0804 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----           ----           ----    U      -
   / 0105 \       / 0305 \       / 0505 \       / 0705 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \   Z    /0205 \        /0405 \   A    /0605 \        /0805 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----    A      ----           ----           -
   / 0106 \       / 0306 \       / 0506 \       / 0706 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \   Z    /0206 \   A    /0406 \        /0606 \        /0806 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----           ----    A      ----           -
   / 0107 \       / 0307 \       / 0507 \       / 0707 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/   A    \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \        /0207 \   A    /0407 \ ARGENT /0607 \   A    /0807 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----    A      ----           ----           -
   / 0108 \       / 0308 \       / 0508 \       / 0708 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \        /0208 \        /0408 \        /0608 \        /0808 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----    A      ----    A      ----           ----    N      -
   / 0109 \       / 0309 \       / 0509 \       / 0709 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \        /0209 \   A    /0409 \   A    /0609 \        /0809 \
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----           ----           ----           -
   / 0110 \       / 0310 \       / 0510 \       / 0710 \       /
  /        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/
  \   Z    /0210 \   A    /0410 \        /0610 \        / 0810\
   \      /       \      /       \      /       \      /       \
     ----           ----           ----    N      ----           -
          \       /      \       /      \       /      \       /
           \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/        \_ _ _/

 KEY:  A - Confederated Stars of Argent (CSA)
       Z - Zeristu Empire
       N - Neutral or independent system
       U - Unexplored system

                                    UWP
 LOC   SYSTEM      STAR          PSAHPGL-T    ALLEGENCE
 =====================================================
 0101  MARK        F6V/DG/G2V    B7448G7-9   INDEPENDENT
 0103  WOZOHOSKI   F3V           D333498-8   ZERISTU
 0105  FLORABIL    M7V/M9V       C210399-9   ZERISTU
 0106  HARKIN      G2V           C344669-9   ZERISTU
 0110  BERN        A7V           A474869-A   ZERISTU
 0203  VITO        M1V/M4V       C8817D7-7   CSA
 0208  KASAAN      M3V/DM        C853487-9   CSA
 0301  MUAN GWI    G7V/M5V       A764946-A   INDEPENDENT
 0302  KURZU       M1V           B966888-A   CSA
 0306  TYO         K7V/M6V       C761387-7   CSA
 0307  BONZI       K1V (Erlish)  B88467?-8   CSA
 0309  NEW GEORGIA G3V/M7V       C00057?-9   CSA
 0310  CATHAY      G2V           B573735-A   CSA
 0402  SURT        M0V/M9V       D510319-9   CSA
 0403  BECK        G2B/K1VI      C354466-7   CSA
 0405  GORATH      G2II/M4VI     C569743-9   CSA
 0407  SHAW        F8V (Asa)     A767887-9   CSA
 0408  ZAYEEL      G4V           CA714EC-9   CSA
 0504  NEW ALBANIA F2V/K2V       B6546A5-A   CSA
 0505  ENDOLAN     M7V           C110318-8   CSA
 0507  ARGENT      G2V(Nota Ter) A7668C5-A   CSA
 0509  SUMIT       F1V/F5V       B972837-A   CSA
 0601              G2V           UNEXPLORED
 0606  BEAL        F4V           C455558-9   CSA
 0610  BORAL-P     G0V           A97397?-7   INDEPENDENT
 0702              G0V           UNEXPLORED
 0707  ANVIL       K1V           D451388-9   CSA
 0804              K6V/DK        UNEXPLORED 
 0808              G5V           UNEXPLORED (GG) 

Eris
(c) 1997-1998
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:00:45 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: {Announcement] New List Forming!!

This is to let you guys know there is a new mailing list out there.  This 
one's spam-proofed.

Description

This is a mailing list designed for the discussion of starship deckplans for 
the Traveller(tm) roleplaying game. All versions are supported, from 'Classic' 
through 'T4', and yeah, even 'G:T'. Traveller(tm) is a registered trademark of 
Far Future Enterprises.

To subscribe, send an empty message to deckplans-subscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe, send a message to deckplans-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Group Moderator: deckplans-owner@egroups.com


A signup box is also on my  Deckplans website at:


http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/traveller/boats.html

Enjoy.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 18:01:32 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: AKUS MOBY: Meeting on Argent

Folks,

I sent out a background post for my AKUS MOBY game and a subsector
map it uses a few minutes ago.  This is a synopsis of the first part
of the campaign, where most of the characters meet.  Unless, I'm
told to stop, I'll post more over the next few days.

Eris

           ----------------------------------------------
           
NOTE:  I'm writing these posts from the perspective of an NPC in the
Akus Moby PBEM named Coryden Heyst.  Cory began as a PC, but when
the player dropped out, I kept Cory around to serve as a way for the
GM to talk to the characters...and because I *liked* Cory.  I
promise to keep these posts short because I know many people don't
have an interest in seeing other peoples games.

AKUS MOBY: We Meet on Argent

The letter from the lawyer, Sung, asking to meet with me was a
surprise, but I had nothing better to do after being beached by the
Confederation Navy, so I accepted.  There were at least a dozen men
and women in Sung's office when I arrived.  It was clear that none
of us knew each other, nor why we were here, and I think we were all
greatly surprised when we discovered we were the heirs of Akus Moby.

It seems Moby was the great, to the fourth, grandfather of all of us
who, due to the vagaries of relativistic travel, had only recently
died.  During his youth he had fathered a daughter, and then taken a
hundred plus year journey to Shaw on a near-c ship.  He arrived on
Shaw about seventy years ago to find that the jump drive had been
rediscovered during his long journey.  Of course by this time the
girl he had fathered had grown old and had children of her own.
Moby had no desire to insinuate himself into the lives of strangers,
even if they were his kin, so he went off to explore and have
adventures.  Fifty years ago he hired Sung's firm to find his
relatives.

Well, to make a long story short, the lawyers could trace us all to
his daughter.  It was a great surprise to discover we were a room
full of cousins who knew nothing of each other.  Moby had been
tracking our families, though not interfering, and although we had
never met him he had picked us to be his heirs.

In his video he proposed to leave us his possessions, including his
ship, the Mae Lee. The proviso was that before we received a clear
title to her we would have to serve as her crew for the next seven
years.  We would have to work, as he had done the last 70 years, as
explorers and merchants on the Quental Main.  It also appeared that
most of his possessions were located in the Mark System, four jumps
from Argent, where we currently were.

Alternatively, we heirs could accept a small cash inheritance.  Most
took the cash, six of us took the ship.

After the less adventurous had left, I looked around and I saw that
I *did* recognized the short fellow in the corner.  He had been in
the Navy News just after the recent war with the Zeristu Empire.
Hoenja was his name, Kelly Hoenja I learned later, and the trial of
this Engineering NCO for mutiny and cowardness under fire had
captured a great deal of attention inside the navy.  I had known the
Captain on his ship while at the Academy (a Royal dunce...and I do
mean *royal* and I do mean dunce) and, frankly, wasn't that
surprised when Hoenja was found not guilty of those charges, but
convicted of insubordination and given a dishonorable discharge.
Convicting an NCO for the stupidity of some noble commander is an
old game, not a nice one, but court politics must be observed.  Yes,
I could see where Hoenja would want to leave the confines of the
Confederation for the unknown worlds on the Main.  I also imagine
Kelly has a grudge against the Confederation Navy and his former
commander in particular.  That's one reason I've downplayed my
former profession.

There was one woman among us, Dr. Mira Hasta-Rur, a former Scout and
medical doctor.  Dr. Hasta-Rur is a small and fragile looking woman
with red hair and an almost elven look to her.  Frankly, I was
surprised that she stayed, but since have seen how adventurous and
*tough* she really is, and I must say her medical skill came in
handy just recently. 

Across the table from Dr. Mira was another former Scout, Ricardo
O'Brien.  O'Brien is much the stereotypical image of a Scout, rough,
tough, hard and ready for anything.  He isn't a large man, but his
attitude makes him seem bigger than he is.  Ricardo has shown good
Engineering skills and good survival reactions on our journey so
far.

Next to O'Brien was Sir Jason Deveraux, an actor...well that's what
he said he was.  Personally, I pegged the tall, handsome man as a
con-man and a cad when first I met him.  I will admit, however, that
I have never proven a thing against him, and I may have misjudged
Sir Jason.  He *may* be an honorable man...but I still have my
doubts.

In contrast to the suave Sir Jason was the archaeologist, Arvitis
Steves.  Steves looks and acts the part of the absent minded
professor.  Steves, a giant of a man, seems to be interested only in
antiquities, artifacts and finding same.  I suspect he came along
just for the ride out to the unexplored worlds of the Main so he can
look for lost treasures.  Well, to be fair, Arvitis is a regular
whiz with sensors, a skill I'm sure he developed doing field work.
There *is* one anomaly about Steves that concerns me, I've seen the
gun case that he carries with him.  I *know* what sort of rifle goes
in a case like that, a very specialized rifle, not the sort of
weapon I would associate with an absent minded archaeologist.

Lastly, there was Martan Vishinik.  Martan's family ran a small
trading company before the war, but after the death of his parents
and his time in the Navy Martan returned to a failing business.
Although Martan hasn't said, I suspect it was his family's refusal
to knuckle under to the Spacer's Guild that ruined them.  In any
case, I think Martan was more than willing to sell out and start
fresh on the frontier.  I also get the impression that he wants to
prove himself.  Martan has become our leader, for now at least.

Traveling with us is the lawyer Audry Sung who will see to it that
we receive our inheritance when we reach Mark, and her fiance Jon
Midren.  If I have suspicions about Sir Jason, I have proof about
Jon Midren...a rotten piece of fruit if ever there was one.  Midren
is a noted duelist, suspected blackmailer and has the reputation of
a gigolo.  It seems Ms Sung, an otherwise sensible woman, is showing
a streak of naivete in regards Midren.  She seems to be truly
smitten with this cad and insists on his traveling with us.  I
foresee nothing but trouble from him for us all.

In order to reach Mark we will have to travel first to Gorath, then
Beck and finally Kurzu.  Our trip from Argent to Gorath and then on
to Beck will be on the liner Beamon's Rift.  Beamon's Rift is more
of a cruise ship than I would have liked, but as Ms Sung is paying
our way we are at her disposal.

Next...Exploring on Gorath...


Eris


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:09:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

Alvin Plummer quips,

>"I miss the OLD MegaTrav Imperial helmet's!"
>"Look, at least you can see out of these!"
>"But the crucial coolness factor has fallen off drastically!"

The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
then put plasma guns into their hands??

I prefer to believe that Miller's Imperium has more sense than Lucas's Empire :)

 + GMG +

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
 `The idea of using rocks as kinetic weapons is not a new one.'
                    -- John Maddox Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:20:39 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveller Code

If you are referring to the IMTU codes, the web page is
http://www.metronet.com/~washi/Tas/Lists/IMTU.html

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:37:07 -0700
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Hivers (was re: Racial design....)

>That's right, folks. Interdicted in -2213 and still going. That's about
>equal to becoming interdicted around the beginning of the Egyptian
>civilization and continuing through today. Talk about paranoid.

Well, let me try to put this in a human perspective:

The Alien Freaks(tm) SOMEHOW, in a mere five years, managed to convince the 
people on these worlds to kill and eat their own children, after having sex
with them.

How?  We don't know, and we don't WANT to.  So we bombed the worlds down
to glass and now we make sure no one EVER goes there again.  Because if 
someone did, 'it' might get loose...

(How's that?)

Besides, as someone noted, the K'Kree never do things by halves.  There are
NO meat-eating sophonts within the Two Thousand; they've all been converted
or exterminated.  It's a simple matter to apply this to meat-eating K'Kree
as well.


- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #813
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 12 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 814



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [G:T] The art gallery 
Helmet's (Re: [G:T] The art gallery)
Re: Helmet's (Re: [G:T] The art gallery)
Re: MegaTrav links
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: Hivers (Long)
Ship design in G:T
Here are a few things that can go wrong with Jumpspace IMTU
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:45:48 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery 

> Alvin Plummer quips,
> 
> >"I miss the OLD MegaTrav Imperial helmet's!"
> >"Look, at least you can see out of these!"
> >"But the crucial coolness factor has fallen off drastically!"
> 
> The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
> "plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
> believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
> field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
> then put plasma guns into their hands??

I thought there was a built-in image converter on the front of Imperial Marine 
battle dress.
 
> I prefer to believe that Miller's Imperium has more sense than Lucas's Empire > :)

*ANY* day.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:46:37 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Helmet's (Re: [G:T] The art gallery)

>Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:09:09 -0400 (EDT)
>From: neo@total.net
>Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

>Alvin Plummer quips,

>>"I miss the OLD MegaTrav Imperial helmet's!"
>>"Look, at least you can see out of these!"
>>"But the crucial coolness factor has fallen off drastically!"

>The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
>"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
>believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
>field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
>then put plasma guns into their hands??

After due "second thought", I basically agree with your decision.
I could rationalize that the "eyeslit" of the Imperial TL-14 helmet was
actually a sensor, projecting visual/infrared/etc. images to a screen
within the helmet - but that is contradicted by MegaTrav canon,
which indeed show's the view as a narrow slit.  Also, this "internal screen"
would actually *increase* the soldier's vulnerability to EMP pulses,
glitches, power outages, etc: he would be blind if the screen goes down.

Moreover, the MegaTrav helmet is not seen in Classic material, exist's
in the TNE (in the TL-15 Battlesuit illustration's) and doesn't exist
in T4.  Therefore, in good times there is no slit, in bad times there is
one.
Ergo, the absence of the slit in GURPS:Traveller is a Good Thing.

Finally, your helmet's do have an elegance and style that *is* pleasing
to the eye: the fact that they are functional is a bonus the Imperial
Marines
are sure to appreciate.   If you ever need a favour, they'd be glad to help
you out in return - Lorean has their number.

>I prefer to believe that Miller's Imperium has more sense than Lucas's
Empire :)

(Stifles comment on "Lucan's Empire".  With difficulity. )

>+ GMG +

>    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------
>                         <neo@total.net>
>    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
>`The idea of using rocks as kinetic weapons is not a new one.'
>                    -- John Maddox Roberts

And of course, helmet's have been around since the time of... Troy?

Alvin Plummer
Cutting out the discussion on Greek vs. Roman helmet's, the German
helm vs. the American WWII pot, and the influence of the whole lot
on Imperial Design (but... but... where's the Vilani?)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:27:50 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Helmet's (Re: [G:T] The art gallery)

alvin plummer wrote:
<<snip>>
> 
> And of course, helmet's have been around since the time of... Troy?
> 
> Alvin Plummer
> Cutting out the discussion on Greek vs. Roman helmet's, the German
> helm vs. the American WWII pot, and the influence of the whole lot
> on Imperial Design (but... but... where's the Vilani?)

"Where's the Vilani?"?  Well, why do you think that American soldiers
refer to both the WWII-era M1 helmet ("steel pot") and the current
Kevlar helmet ("K-pot") as "pots"?  _Definite_ Vilani influence....

(Alternately, this is an example of genetic-cultural convergence between
two otherwise different societies....)  ;-)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:47:16 -0400
From: Martyn Wheeler <pixie@interpath.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTrav links

> Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:37:05 EDT DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> >     Can anyone send me any links they may have for web pages that deal w/ MT?
> >Any info would be greatly appreciated (and it's a great chance to plug your
> >site!  :-) )

Well, I guess it's time for me to give a plug here for mine, although it's only
just started:

    http://pixie.simplenet.com/gaming/Traveller.htm

The closest I get to fancy graphics is colour-coded tables, so it'll load pretty
quickly even at 28.8... :-)  so if you don't like the fonts or something, it's your
defaults not mine. ;-) :-)

By far the largest section byte-wise is the log of the last MT campaign I ran,
which since it lasted more or less two years, is a lot.  There's some MT ship
designs I cranked out of my own C program (predates fancy GUI's, so I wrote my own
using vt100 cursor codes, haven't even tried compiling it recently).  There's an
unpolished version of my rules for a vector-based space combat system (which worked
*very* well), and if I recall I might even have the MT stats I used for Kafer
weapons...  Yeah, and there's an ever-increasing amount of very detailed system
data (as in DGP's WBH, but modified a little to provide more accurate average
temperatures in multi-star systems, and making a serious attempt to make livable
mainworlds really livable while staying within WBH formulae) -- although of course
at most the system UWP is canon, not the system contents.

But it's all set in the 1100's (the last campaign ran 1117-1119) and there hasn't
even been a Fifth Frontier War, let alone an assasination, so it might not be
useful to you.

I'm about set to start a follow-on campaign sometime in the next few months.  As
yet I'm not sure which ruleset to use (or which combination of rulesets, I like
aspects of MT and T4) so I can't really call it a completely MT site.

Anyone is quite welcome to link to me, as long as you're aware it's a work in
progress and subject to change.

Martyn
 ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----
"Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords
 Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"
   "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:17:14 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Sethkimmel@aol.com spaketh:

>Clarisworks 5?... CLARISWORKS 5!!!?... I just bought Clarisworks 4 because my
>school district uses it...DOH!!! pass the donuts...  Seriously when did it
>come out, and what's the difference between it and claris 4?

 In the drawing tools? Not much difference. The word processor and spreadsheet
got a facelift and some nifty toolbars. I haven't delved into the database
yet...

>
>Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to be on the
>losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating (g--d--n 166mz piece
>of junk!)

 While this will probably start something regrettable, I can't resist pointing
out that the new iMac comes with ClarisWorks 5 (soon to be renamed
AppleWorks 5 due to Claris being resorbed by Apple...). Watching Photoshop 5
(NOT included) open in 6 seconds is kinda cool, too...

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:03:45 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> Sethkimmel@aol.com spaketh:
> 
> >Clarisworks 5?... CLARISWORKS 5!!!?... I just bought Clarisworks 4 because my
> >school district uses it...DOH!!! pass the donuts...  Seriously when did it
> >come out, and what's the difference between it and claris 4?
> 
>  In the drawing tools? Not much difference. The word processor and spreadsheet
> got a facelift and some nifty toolbars. I haven't delved into the database
> yet...
> 
> >
> >Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to be on the
> >losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating (g--d--n 166mz piece
> >of junk!)
> 
>  While this will probably start something regrettable, I can't resist pointing
> out that the new iMac comes with ClarisWorks 5 (soon to be renamed
> AppleWorks 5 due to Claris being resorbed by Apple...). Watching Photoshop 5
> (NOT included) open in 6 seconds is kinda cool, too...

How are the new iMacs, anyways?  I haven't had the chance to check them out 
yet.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:54:34 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Hivers (Long)

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> > I wonder, how can you get the Ithklur to the Marches....?
> >
>
> Tell 'em Joe's Original K'Kree BBQ House is open...;-)

Alright Bruce who's recipe are we using?

And Suckling K'Kree still requires reservations 7 days in
advance..

> <duck!>

 Stand fool! (otherwise they can't read our shirts)

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:10:11 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Ship design in G:T

Just looking over the ship stat's in the new G:T pages.  Is ship
construction
simple in the new G:T?  How dependent is it on G:Vehicles and G:Robot's
(If you want drones, or robot crew, etc)?  Is everything needed for basic
ship construction in the main GURPS:Traveller book?

Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:45:51 +0100
From: Julia and Chris <julia-and-chris@compute-ability.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Here are a few things that can go wrong with Jumpspace IMTU

Notes
Jump Drive Problems

 Misjump                        (In all cases the Jump exit roll is
                                automatically 12+DMs)
Superficial:   
Gravitational   If the ship Jumped within 100 diameters of
Influence       a massive body, it spends the entire Jump
                time orbiting that body
                Expected J-fuel used, J-superficial (1D)

Minor: (roll 1D)
(1-3) 
Directional     D6 for new direction, if as intended then red
Error           light + same problem next Jump without
                rolling
                Expected J-fuel used, J-superficial (1D)
(4-6)
Navigational    D6 for new hex, adjacent to target hex
Interact        Expected J-fuel used, J-superficial (1D)
Malfunction

Major:  (roll 1D)
(1-3)
Power Surge     +1D to Jump, all J-fuel used, same
                direction, J-major (3D)
                J7+=no Jump, expected J-fuel used, J-destroyed (4D)
(4-6)
Power Drop      -1D to Jump, expected J-fuel used, same
                direction, J-superficial (1D)
                0= no Jump, expected J-fuel used, J-minor (2D)
                <0 no Jump, all J-fuel used, J-major (3D)

Destroyed:
Normal Misjump  1D for number of dice rolled for Distance, 
                1D for Direction.
                All J-fuel used, J-destroyed (4D)

Drive
Superficial:
Jump Governor   (Only possible for ships with a Jump
Failure         Governor, which is then destroyed)
                All J-fuel used, J-minor (1D)

Minor:
Initiator       Jump drives do not initiate the 'grid
Failure
                To restart a failed Jump initiator
                Routine, Engineering, Edu, 1 min
                Each subsequent attempt raises he
                difficulty by one level. maximum of one
                try per level of Engineering and JOT.
                A new Jump vector will need to be
                calculated, only taking 50% of the usual
                time

Major:
Fuel Flow       Jump drives do not initiate the 'grid 
Blockage 
                To flush a fuel feed system
                Routine, Engineering, Edu, 1 hour
                If this task is attempted with only basic
                facilities (e.g. Starport class D or any
                Spaceport), it becomes Difficult
                If it is attempted without any facilities
                e.g. not at a Starport) it becomes
                Formidable

Destroyed:
Jump Repeater   If there is sufficient fuel, then
Cut-in          immediately upon exiting Jump space, the
                drives will start to 'warm up for another
                Jump, and the ship Jumps again in the same
                direction, for the same distance, and the
                drive suffers a minor (2D) mishap
                If there is insufficient fuel, the ship
                will undergo a microjump, and the drive
                suffers a destroyed (4D) mishap

                To abort a second Jump
                Difficult, Engineering, Navigation, Edu, fateful)
                Sum Engineers & Navigators DMs as one DM
                and roll once
                Should this task succeed, then the J-drive
                still suffers superficial damage (1D)

Field
Superficial:
Jump Relativity Ship remains in Jump for 80 + 3Dx10 hours,
Error           and emerges 3D x 10,000,000km from target
                point, and suffers a +1 DM to the Jump
                exit roll.

Minor:
Irregular Jump  The ship experiences severe buffeting in
                Field Jump space and suffers a +3 DM to the Jump
                exit roll.

                To smooth a Jump field
                Difficult, Engineering or Navigation, Edu,
                (fateful, one attempt only)
                Should this task succeed, then the J-drive
                suffers superficial damage (1D).
                Should this task fail, then the J-drive
                suffers major damage (3D) and apply
                another mishap, on exceptional failure
                apply two mishaps.

Major:
Unstable Jump   The Jump field threatens to collapse while
Field           in Jump space.

                To stabilise a Jump field
                Difficult, Engineering or Navigation, Edu,
                fateful, hazardous, one attempt only)
                Should this task succeed, then the J-drive
                still suffers superficial damage (1D).
                Should this task fail, then the J-drive
                suffers destroyed damage (4D), apply
                another mishap, and the ship drops out 
                of Jump space partway to its destination,
                with a +3 DM to the Jump exit roll.

Destroyed:
Deformed Jump   The Jump field does not enclose the entire
                Field ship. the ship suffers a +6 DM to the Jump
                exit roll.

                To detect a deformed Jump field and abort Jump
                Formidable, Engineering, Navigation, Edu, (fateful)
                Sum Engineers & Navigators DMs as one DM
                and roll once during Jump initiation

                All Mishap damage rolls are applied directly to the Hull.
                
                If Mishap result is superficial, then only
                minor items, such as antennae & aerials
                are outside the field - most Sensors will be
                destroyed by such a mishap.
                A Minor or Major mishap results in an
                uninhabited portion of the hull, such as a
                turret, cargo hold or fuel tankage being
                lost.
                A Destroyed result splits the entire ship
                in two, with explosive decompression
                results for the crew.

Unless stated all damage is multiplied by 5% and applied directly to the J-Drive.
E.g. (1) a Major mishap occurs on a ship whose J-Drive is 15/30. 
3D= 12 = 60% damage to J-Drive. 60% x 45 = 27. New drive status is 0/28 -
inoperable, and needs SERIOUS repairs ASAP.
E.g. (2) a Superficial mishap occurs on a ship whose J-Drive is 3/6. 
1D= 2 = 10% damage to J-Drive. 10% x 9 = 0.9. New drive status is 2/6 - operable,
and needs minor repairs at some point.

Comments welcome

- -- 
Julia and Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:41:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>>
>> > AHAH!  I've found where the problem is.  If we use planetary motion
>> > to help us along then the conjunction is a bad point to start from.
>>
>> > For starters lets draw the system.  We've got the sun in the middle
>> > from which we can draw some acceleration.  Then we've got the earth's
>> > orbit.  Then out 5 times the distance we've got Jupiter's orbit.
>>
>> > Now we draw our path to make best use of the sun's gravity and the
>> > motion of Jupiter and  Earth.  The simplest drawing would be a circle
>> > that is tangential to the top of Earth's orbit and the bottom of
>> > Jupiter's.  This could also be an ellipse with the sun at one focus
>> > and a spot between Earth's and Jupiter's orbit as the other focus.  I
>> > suspect this would be where you point the ship to get the appropriate
>> > flight path.  Note that in both cases you conserve your orbital
>> > velocity to match the destination on the far side of the sun.  If the
>> > circle was set up in the conjunction, the ship's velocity would be
>> > countered by the planet's velocity.
>>
>> Actually, it's the ellipse, tangent to both orbits, with the sun at one
>> focus. That gives you the classic Hohmann transfer orbit.
>
> I've never heard of that until today.  What's a Hohmann transfer orbit?

It's it's the cheapest (in terms of delta-V requirements) means of
transferring between two orbits. Named after the guy who worked it out.

There *is* a cheaper way *if* one orbit is more than 15 times bigger
than the other, but it takes *lots* of time.

> I just looked up a Hohmann transfer orbit.  It seems concerned with minimum
> energy requirements.  But we can use more energy intensive orbits.  I think
> this would just make the orbit more eccentric.  But if you get too
> eccentric, you turn your orbit into a parabola... i.e. you just shot
> yourself out of the system... OOPS!

Actually, if you are accelerating continously, you *aren't* "orbiting"
strictly speaking, and your course doesn't much resemble typical orbits.

> However, at best the distance would be a straight line between Earth and
> Jupiter about 6AU as opposed to 10 AU.  Even at that distance, my ion
> drives are too big for a one year trip.

Huh? Jupiter is about 5.2 AU out from the Sun. The Earth is one AU out.
At closest approach, the distance is *4.2* AU, at maximum seperation
it's 6.2. 

And if you are talking round trip, remember that you only have to carry
fuel for *one* way, it's assumed you can refuel at the station. (If you
can't then the situation *is* too expensive).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:04:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

In mail you write:

> Okay, so you need a certain (rotational) velocity to achieve 
>
> low earth orbit (2% of PD - but what is a reasonable range of figures)
> Stable orbit (3 Planetary Diameters - but aren't their an infinite number,
> or is this a point at which the gravitional attraction beytween two bodies
> is below a certain threshold (which is?)
> escape velocity .
> How are these calculated for different world and atmoshpere types.  (The
> atmosphere stops below low earth orbit  right?)

Orbital velocity and escape velocity depend *only* on the mass of the
planet asnd how far you are from the center of the planet.

> You do need to beat local gravity to get off the ground, how is this
> factored in?

Escape velocity and orbital velocities are "final" velocities. That is,
if you are moving at escape velocity, and are pointed in a direction
that doesn't intersect the planet's surface, you'll eventually reach
infinity. Likewise, if you have orbital velocity in a direction
"parallel" to the planet's surface, you'll be in a circular orbit.
This is all ignoring air resistance.

I don't know what the formulas you are looking at look like. But here
are the formulas from part 4 of the sci.space FAQ:

    NUMBERS

	7726 m/s	 (8000)  -- Earth orbital velocity at 300 km altitude
	3075 m/s	 (3000)  -- Earth orbital velocity at 35786 km (geosync)
	6371 km		 (6400)  -- Mean radius of Earth
	6378 km		 (6400)  -- Equatorial radius of Earth
	1738 km		 (1700)  -- Mean radius of Moon
	5.974e24 kg	 (6e24)  -- Mass of Earth
	7.348e22 kg	 (7e22)  -- Mass of Moon
	1.989e30 kg	 (2e30)  -- Mass of Sun
	3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (4e14)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Earth
	4.903e12 m^3/s^2 (5e12)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Moon
	1.327e20 m^3/s^2 (13e19) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Sun
	384401 km	 ( 4e5)  -- Mean Earth-Moon distance
	1.496e11 m	 (15e10) -- Mean Earth-Sun distance (Astronomical Unit)

	1 megaton (MT) TNT = about 4.2e15 J or the energy equivalent of
	about .05 kg (50 g) of matter. Ref: J.R Williams, "The Energy Level
	of Things", Air Force Special Weapons Center (ARDC), Kirtland Air
	Force Base, New Mexico, 1963. Also see "The Effects of Nuclear
	Weapons", compiled by S. Glasstone and P.J. Dolan, published by the
	US Department of Defense (obtain from the GPO).

    EQUATIONS

	Where d is distance, v is velocity, a is acceleration, t is time.
	Additional more specialized equations are available from:

	    ftp://ftp.cs.unc.edu/pub/users/leech/FAQ/MoreEquations.gz

	For constant acceleration
	    d = d0 + vt + .5at^2
	    v = v0 + at
	  v^2 = 2ad

	Acceleration on a cylinder (space colony, etc.) of radius r and
	    rotation period t:

	    a = 4 pi**2 r / t^2

	For circular Keplerian orbits where:
	    Vc	 = velocity of a circular orbit
	    Vesc = escape velocity
	    M	 = Total mass of orbiting and orbited bodies
	    G	 = Gravitational constant (defined below)
	    u	 = G * M (can be measured much more accurately than G or M)
	    K	 = -G * M / 2 / a
	    r	 = radius of orbit (measured from center of mass of system)
	    V	 = orbital velocity
	    P	 = orbital period
	    a	 = semimajor axis of orbit

	    Vc	 = sqrt(M * G / r)
	    Vesc = sqrt(2 * M * G / r) = sqrt(2) * Vc
	    V^2  = u/a
	    P	 = 2 pi/(Sqrt(u/a^3))
	    K	 = 1/2 V**2 - G * M / r (conservation of energy)

	    The period of an eccentric orbit is the same as the period
	       of a circular orbit with the same semi-major axis.

	Change in velocity required for a plane change of angle phi in a
	circular orbit:

	    delta V = 2 sqrt(GM/r) sin (phi/2)

	Energy to put mass m into a circular orbit (ignores rotational
	velocity, which reduces the energy a bit).

	    GMm (1/Re - 1/2Rcirc)
	    Re = radius of the earth
	    Rcirc = radius of the circular orbit.

	Classical rocket equation, where
	    dv	= change in velocity
	    Isp = specific impulse of engine
	    Ve	= exhaust velocity
	    x	= reaction mass
	    m1	= rocket mass excluding reaction mass
	    g	= 9.8 m / s^2

	    Ve	= Isp * g
	    dv	= Ve * log((m1 + x) / m1)
		= Ve * log((final mass) / (initial mass))

(note that "g" in the above is a conversion factor, *not* the gravity
of whatever planet you happen to be on.)

	Relativistic rocket equation (constant acceleration)

	    t (unaccelerated) = c/a * sinh(a*t/c)
	    d = c**2/a * (cosh(a*t/c) - 1)
	    v = c * tanh(a*t/c)

	Relativistic rocket with exhaust velocity Ve and mass ratio MR:

	    at/c = Ve/c * ln(MR), or

	    t (unaccelerated) = c/a * sinh(Ve/c * ln(MR))
	    d = c**2/a * (cosh(Ve/C * ln(MR)) - 1)
	    v = c * tanh(Ve/C * ln(MR))

	Converting from parallax to distance:

	    d (in parsecs) = 1 / p (in arc seconds)
	    d (in astronomical units) = 206265 / p

	Miscellaneous
	    f=ma    -- Force is mass times acceleration
	    w=fd    -- Work (energy) is force times distance

	Atmospheric density varies as exp(-mgz/kT) where z is altitude, m is
	molecular weight in kg of air, g is local acceleration of gravity, T
	is temperature, k is Bolztmann's constant. On Earth up to 100 km,

	    d = d0*exp(-z*1.42e-4)

	where d is density, d0 is density at 0km, is approximately true, so

	    d@12km (40000 ft) = d0*.18
	    d@9 km (30000 ft) = d0*.27
	    d@6 km (20000 ft) = d0*.43
	    d@3 km (10000 ft) = d0*.65

		    Atmospheric scale height	Dry lapse rate
		    (in km at emission level)	 (K/km)
		    -------------------------	--------------
	    Earth	    7.5			    9.8
	    Mars	    11			    4.4
	    Venus	    4.9			    10.5
	    Titan	    18			    1.3
	    Jupiter	    19			    2.0
	    Saturn	    37			    0.7
	    Uranus	    24			    0.7
	    Neptune	    21			    0.8
	    Triton	    8			    1

	Titius-Bode Law for approximating planetary distances:

	    R(n) = 0.4 + 0.3 * 2^N Astronomical Units

	    This fits fairly well for Mercury (N = -infinity), Venus
	    (N = 0), Earth (N = 1), Mars (N = 2), Jupiter (N = 4),
	    Saturn (N = 5), Uranus (N = 6), and Pluto (N = 7).

    CONSTANTS

	6.62618e-34 J-s  (7e-34) -- Planck's Constant "h"
	1.054589e-34 J-s (1e-34) -- Planck's Constant / (2 * PI), "h bar"
	1.3807e-23 J/K	(1.4e-23) - Boltzmann's Constant "k"
	5.6697e-8 W/m^2/K (6e-8) -- Stephan-Boltzmann Constant "sigma"
    6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant "G"
	0.0029 m K	 (3e-3)  -- Wien's Constant "sigma(W)"
	3.827e26 W	 (4e26)  -- Luminosity of Sun
	1370 W / m^2	 (1400)  -- Solar Constant (intensity at 1 AU)
	6.96e8 m	 (7e8)	 -- radius of Sun
	1738 km		 (2e3)	 -- radius of Moon
	299792458 m/s	  (3e8)  -- speed of light in vacuum "c"
	9.46053e15 m	  (1e16) -- light year
	206264.806 AU	  (2e5)  -- one parsec
	3.2616 light years (3)	 -- one parsec
	3.0856e16 m	 (3e16)  -- one parsec

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:49:11 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

In mail you write:

> Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people
> wondering why the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at
> the bar, next to a bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...

Maybe he's a survivor of one of the planets the Hivers did that
manipulation on?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:25:48 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

>Clarisworks 5?... CLARISWORKS 5!!!?... I just bought Clarisworks 4 because my
>school district uses it...DOH!!! pass the donuts...  Seriously when did it
>come out, and what's the difference between it and claris 4?

Differences? There's a button bar, the graphics side is improved, there's
and equation editor and a whole load of templates and standard forms... I
like it a lot more... It came out almost 12 months ago - the upgrade cost
about 50 GBP. It has since been renamed AppleWorks 5 (since Claris
demised) and is bundled on the iMac. The whole package (which included a
new version of the Apple Internet Connection kit) is called ClarisWorks
Office. Well worth the upgrade from 3, a little less so  from 4, but the
equation editor was something that I wanted...

>Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to be on the
>losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating (g--d--n 166mz piece
>of junk!)

(Hey, I'm running a 200MHz 603e PPC machine that feels faster than my work
PC at the same MHz, but then I think about the performanc of a G3 PPC and
shudder).

Ob Trav - Check out Rob Prior's MacOS software on my webpages.... QSDS,
Imperial Grand Survey, Infini-V and Metator. All excellent programmes
(albeit without save and print until you register with Rob).....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #814
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 13 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 815



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [G:T] The art gallery 
Re: Ship design in G:T
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Volume of a sphere
Re: Rocketry 100
Deckplans
Battle Dress helmets
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
re: MT CharGen
Re: Deckplans 
Re: Fire, Fusion, & Steel 2 spreadsheet (v3.2) now available
re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: "Troops"
Website update
Burning Questions
re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: Burning Questions
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
GURPS Traveller update

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:01:16 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery 

> > Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people
> > wondering why the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at
> > the bar, next to a bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
> 
> Maybe he's a survivor of one of the planets the Hivers did that
> manipulation on?

I *KNEW* there were survivors dammit!!!!!  <grin>

Now for something totally different...

It's been since the mid-70's since I had a college math course and the old 
grey matter's been thru Hell & high water.  I need to know how to find the 
volume of a sphere.  Anybody happen to know offhand?

TIA.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:03:31 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Ship design in G:T

>
>Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:10:11 -0400
>From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
>Subject: Ship design in G:T
>
>Just looking over the ship stat's in the new G:T pages.  Is ship
>construction
>simple in the new G:T?

Almost as simple as CT - pick a standardized hull, pick a bunch of
standardized modules, and voila!

>  How dependent is it on G:Vehicles and G:Robot's
>(If you want drones, or robot crew, etc)?

David Pulver, author of Vehicles and Robots, also wrote the starship
construction rules for GT.  The GT rules are fully compatible with both of
those supplements, but don't contain all the details needed for robots,
drones, ground vehicles, etc. - just starships.  The smallest hull size
given is 10 dtons.  

The modules (which are an abstraction to speed design, not literal modular
components) were designed using straight Vehicles rules, and there are
guidelines for creating your own, compatible modules for anything that was
left out.

>  Is everything needed for basic
>ship construction in the main GURPS:Traveller book?
>

Yes - the design system for GT is fully self-sufficient.  The playtest
draft even included stealth, EMM, bay weapons, and one each PB and meson
spinal guns - though this may have changed by the final printed version,
due to space constraints or editorial decision.

GT ships are primarily merchants, with just a nod to military ships.  The
plan is to produce a Military/Mercenary supplement for GT, which will do
more justice to naval ship design.  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:43:47 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

neo@total.net writes:
>The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
>"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
>believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your
>visual
>field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
>then put plasma guns into their hands??

I always figured that the slit was a sensor apature, and that there was a
vision screen inside the helmet.  Worked for me, anyway.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:03:53 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Volume of a sphere

At 08:01 AM 9/12/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Now for something totally different...
>
>It's been since the mid-70's since I had a college math course and the old 
>grey matter's been thru Hell & high water.  I need to know how to find the 
>volume of a sphere.  Anybody happen to know offhand?

(4/3)*(pi)*(cube of the radius)

pi = 3.14 (rounding off -- a calculator would have a more
    precise value, which might make a difference with
    what you consider acceptable error for large spheres)
cube of the radius = r*r*r

JB

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 01:17:46
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
>
>	5.974e24 kg	 (6e24)  -- Mass of Earth
>	7.348e22 kg	 (7e22)  -- Mass of Moon

I've been working for Famile Spofulam for too long - I saw this number, and
started idly thinking about how many cubic meters of thruster plates it
would take to move the moon somewhere else.


>	1.989e30 kg	 (2e30)  -- Mass of Sun
>	3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (4e14)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Earth
>	4.903e12 m^3/s^2 (5e12)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Moon
>	1.327e20 m^3/s^2 (13e19) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Sun
>	384401 km	 ( 4e5)  -- Mean Earth-Moon distance
>	1.496e11 m	 (15e10) -- Mean Earth-Sun distance (Astronomical Unit)
>
>	1 megaton (MT) TNT = about 4.2e15 J or the energy equivalent of
>	about .05 kg (50 g) of matter. 

OK. If 1 MT of TNT is 4.2e15 J, then it's 4.2e9 MJ.

One ton of TNT is thus 4,200 megajoules.

One kilo of TNT is thus 4.2 megajoules.

Hmmmm, why do I suddenly think that FS' existing suite of weaponary is
inadequate ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:27:37 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Deckplans

This message has 2 purposes. One I seem to have lost touch with the TML
again 8< ! The last time a message to the list seemed to restart it...so .

Second, to make it Traveller related. I've been playing with a number of
deck plans in the spirit of the parallel vs. perpendicular arguement. I've
come to the conclusion that parallel is really more efficient, as far as
waste space, for small craft. Every streamlined design I've sketched seems
to involve large cargo elevators or more massive handleing equipment for
perpendicular than would be needed on a parallel design.

So one answer I think might work is multiple propusion. The design I'm
working with now is a slab, like the original Far Trader. However the design
incorperated CG for in atmosphere flight, where the ship operated like an
airplane, with decks parallel to thrust. Once out of atmosphere thruster
plates, located on the "belly" of the ship take over, providing
perpendicular thrust.

THis seems to owrk since the ship has good streamlinging and areodynamics in
atmosphere but requires 1 gee less compensators while in extra-atmospheric
flight. It also helps explain (to my feeble mind, at least) why a ship would
want both CG and thrusters.

When the plans are finished I'll post a note to the list and forward them to
anyone interested. As always, comments are welcome/expected.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:54:40 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Battle Dress helmets

Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:09:09 -0400 (EDT) neo@total.net wrote:


>The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
>"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
>believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
>field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
>then put plasma guns into their hands??

That's funny, I've always thought the 'old' Imperial Battle Dress/Combat Armor
helmets with the little slit for vision made a lot of sense. Think about it for
a while: A TL 15 combat helmet is filled with electronics, including a very
sofisticated heads-up display. IMTU Battle Dress helmets have 360 degree
vision, with the area outside the normal field of vision compacted into narrow
bands at the end of the wearers field of vision. Thus, the wearer will be able
to spot movement behind him/her. The heads-up display also work with light
intensifiers and infrared and what-have-you.

If we accept the postulate that transparent materials are weaker than opaque
materials (they generally are IMTU), then it makes sense only to have a little
slit in the helmet for backup purposes (when all the fancy sensors fail), as
this would give increased protection to the face.

Just a thought...


Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk (home)
mse@oticon.dk (work)
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:02:59 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

> > However, at best the distance would be a straight line between Earth and
> > Jupiter about 6AU as opposed to 10 AU.  Even at that distance, my ion
> > drives are too big for a one year trip.
>
> Huh? Jupiter is about 5.2 AU out from the Sun. The Earth is one AU out.
> At closest approach, the distance is *4.2* AU, at maximum seperation
> it's 6.2.

No, I was refering to Earth on one side of the sun and Jupiter on the other.
Therefore, you add the distances not subtract.  But then you'd be flying straight
through the sun... It was a benchmark on distance not an actual flight path.

The flight path I'm picturing now has Jupiter and Earth at right angles.  Using a
highly eccentric ellipse, Sun is in the center, Earth and Jupiter are
tangential.  Earth is also tangential on the far side of the orbit about 1/2
year.  I have NO idea how to apply thrust to maintain that path.

>
>
> And if you are talking round trip, remember that you only have to carry
> fuel for *one* way, it's assumed you can refuel at the station. (If you
> can't then the situation *is* too expensive).

Well, my calculations have been towards figuring out the drive proportion,
including half the trip's fuel and the reactor needed to power the engine.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:35:27 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 07:09 PM 9/11/98 -0400, you wrote:

>The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
>"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
>believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
>field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
>then put plasma guns into their hands??

My response?

The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.  Try firing a
M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes, thick rubber gloves, and
a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.
- --

+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
|    "But think of Korea, of Guadalcanal, of  |
| Belleau Wood, of Viet Nam.  The H-bomb did  |
| not abolish the infantryman; it made him    |
| essential... and he has the toughest job of |
| all and should be honored."                 |
|                       - Robert Heinlein     |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:36:45 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

At 05:58 AM 9/11/98 PDT, you wrote:
>That is a veggie bar.  So really, I have a problem with the Vargr eating 
>veggies....  :-)

You've never owned a dog, have you?  Dogs will eat anything, given the
chance.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:44:12 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

 steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote (om 28 August):

>There is too much canon, too widely spread.
>
>I'm not trying to start a flame war.
>Neither am I canon-bashing.
>I am canon-deficient.
>
>There is so much canon out there, but so little of it is readily available.
>I, for example, have T4, some CT (and some MT en route).  Thats it.
>
>What I need, and others I'm guessing, is a Canon Bible.
>The Gospel of Traveller.
>
>So preach on, preach on.
>
>But perhaps we need to set some Traveller monks on the task of compiling and
>archiving canon for the new Travellers that are sure to follow.

A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.

Dom

PS Yes, we did change a few names in 101 Religions...!

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:04:38 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: MT CharGen

"Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com> wrote:
>Subject:
>
>Not too long ago someone announced they had MegaTraveller-based
>character generation software available for download. Would some
>kind soul please email me the URL, please?

There's a Hypercard stack which does this on my website, written by Rob Prior.

Http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:30:42 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Deckplans 

> When the plans are finished I'll post a note to the list and forward them to
> anyone interested. As always, comments are welcome/expected.

We've got a new Deckplans web ring *and* a deckplans mailing list.  You can 
get to them off my boats page (still kinda sparse, I need some better Linux 
drawing tools) at:

http://www.glasscity.net/users/jamstar/traveller/boats.html

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:27:55 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Fire, Fusion, & Steel 2 spreadsheet (v3.2) now available

Andy,

The only problem I'm having with your spread sheet lately is that you revise
it faster than i can design on it! I have the last two versions still
un-opened! ;>

Just kidding! Please keep up the great work.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper sticker.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andy Akins <igor@ames.net>
To: TravTech <trav-tech@qrc.com>; TML <Traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Saturday, September 12, 1998 7:20 PM
Subject: Fire, Fusion, & Steel 2 spreadsheet (v3.2) now available


>Version 3.2 of my FF&S2 spreadsheet is now available. The
>fixes/changes/additions are:
>
>* Changed the density of Grav Compensators to 2t/m3.
>* Changed some formating on the USP page. This fixed a problem with some
>numbers being unreadable on large ships.
>* Changed Internal Cargo Bays and Cargo Grapples to allow for cargo
>densities greater/less than 1. This can be used to simulate special cargo
>haulers (such as ore haulers, where their cargo is denser than normal).
>* Fixed the Excel weapon save macros from the Excel97 version.
>* Removed the Lightweight Save macros and Weapon save macros from the
>Excel95 version. This appears to cause a problem in Excel 95 that prevents
>the TLSet macro from working. This appears to fix it.
>* Added crewstations for small craft.
>
>As usual, the sheet can be found on my web site,
>www.ames.net/igor/traveller/index.htm
>
>The spreadsheet can be found in the File List section, or in the Operations
>sections of the Frames/No Frames areas...
>
>Let me know if there are any problems/concerns...
>
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Andrew Akins                                                         |
>| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/ - AOL IM: Iowa Akins |
>| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AOL IM: CMS AndyA  |
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+    |
>|       vi+ da+                                                        |
>| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+      |
>|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                             |
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:05:20 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

At 07:44 PM 9/12/98 +0100, you wrote:

>A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.
>
>Dom
>
>PS Yes, we did change a few names in 101 Religions...!

You changed some names?

I expected a little editing, but I never expected the Azhanti Inquisition...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry   dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|--------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this |
|  gay!"                 -Mike, MST3K  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:59:07 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: "Troops"

At 10:59 PM 9/10/1998 -0400, Bloo wrote:
>
>I've heard rumors that you can find it in someplaces on video tape,
>but if you do its bootlegged.  The makers didn't release it on tape
>and don't see dollar 1 from all their work.
>
>They were written up in Wired several months ago.
>
>Bloo
I saw parts of it in the dealers room at a couple of tables at Dragoncon
this year.  It looked pretty good.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:58:28 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Website update

Well I've started to update all my ship designs to take into account the latest 
FFS errata (this required some moderate redesign for those with gravitic 
compensators, frightening how little slack I've left in them). And I've also taken 
the opportunity to start some minor alterations to the site to make it more 
"printer friendly". I've also changed the address of the Traveller Homeage from:

<http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/traveller.htm>

To:

<http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/index.htm>

All my ship designs can still be found at:

<http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/trav/intwars/iwships.htm>


Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:35:58 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Burning Questions

I've just subscribed to TML, and I have been 'out of the loop'
Traveller-wise for some time.  I have a few questions (that have probably
already been dealt with, so forgive me for being a gumby...)

a.  What is actually in 'The Spinward Marches Campaign?'  I have a _very_
good collection of CT material, and I don't think any copies of it ever
made it to OZ.

b.  In TNE, before GDW went belly-up, was any canon reference made to what
was behind the 'Black Curtin' centred on Captial/Core?

c.  Also TNE, who or what was the 'Empress' that Strephon receives the
psionic message about at the Depot?

d.  Again TNE, what is the nature of the phenomenon that is causing chaos
in Zhodani space, observed by the Imperial passive collection system?

Again, if this has been dealt with before, my apols.  I just _gots_ to
know...

BFN

Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov)

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:35:14 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

At 05:05 pm 9/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 07:44 PM 9/12/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.
>>
>>Dom
>>
>>PS Yes, we did change a few names in 101 Religions...!
>
>You changed some names?
>
>I expected a little editing, but I never expected the Azhanti
Inquisition...

	That's a deliberate troll, isn't it ... I'll fall for it: "NOBODY
expects the Azhanti Inquisition!"
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:16:25 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Burning Questions

At 02:35 PM 9/13/98 +1000, you wrote:

>a.  What is actually in 'The Spinward Marches Campaign?'  I have a _very_
>good collection of CT material, and I don't think any copies of it ever
>made it to OZ.

The Spinward Marches Campaign: Adventures in a War-Ravaged Sector (GDW,
1985), is a 49-page adventure/campaign sourcebook for the Fifth Frontier
War era.

The first few pages is a sketch outline for a campaign set in the immediate
aftermath of the 5FW.  Not all that much to brag about, but it's usable.

The second section is a history of the 5FW.  Very well done, and a gold
mine for Classic Era Referees.  Has a timeline, maps of the various fleet
positions, and rough bios of the major players.  A nice touch is start and
end positions for each of the previous wars, showing the ebb and flow of
Imperial/Zhodani fortunes.

The best part, IMHO, is the detailed subsector by subsector look at the
Spinward Marches.  This is the best resource short of the excellent Regency
Sourcebook for the SM.

A Marches wide transport company, an Imperial Battle-Rider squadron, and
the 4518th Lift Infantry complete the book, along with the Supplement 4
character tables.

A lot of this material is reprinted from other sources, but it's nice to
have it all in one place.

>b.  In TNE, before GDW went belly-up, was any canon reference made to what
>was behind the 'Black Curtin' centred on Captial/Core?

Penn & Teller.

Actually, the idea wasthat it was a Vampire Empire of some sort.  Nothing
official was ever published on the subject, IIRC.

>c.  Also TNE, who or what was the 'Empress' that Strephon receives the
>psionic message about at the Depot?

Once again, nothing concrete was ever revealed.

>d.  Again TNE, what is the nature of the phenomenon that is causing chaos
>in Zhodani space, observed by the Imperial passive collection system?

The Empress Wave.  The same effect that causes the vision experienced by
Strephon at Project Longbow seems to have some sort of negative effect on
the fabric of Zhodani society.

- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:00:56 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

SD Mooney wrote:

>  steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote (om 28 August):
> >What I need, and others I'm guessing, is a Canon Bible.
> >The Gospel of Traveller.
> >
> >So preach on, preach on.
> >
> >But perhaps we need to set some Traveller monks on the task of compiling and
> >archiving canon for the new Travellers that are sure to follow.
>
> A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.
>
> Dom
>
> PS Yes, we did change a few names in 101 Religions...!

Does this mean that some of my submissions made the cut?
I hope so.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 01:14:59 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

David J. Golden wrote:

> At 05:05 pm 9/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >At 07:44 PM 9/12/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> >>A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.
> >>
> >>Dom
> >>
> >>PS Yes, we did change a few names in 101 Religions...!
> >
> >You changed some names?
> >
> >I expected a little editing, but I never expected the Azhanti
> Inquisition...
>
>         That's a deliberate troll, isn't it ... I'll fall for it: "NOBODY
> expects the Azhanti Inquisition!"

Cardinal Fang! Bring in the comfy Chair!

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:14:09 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller update

Steve Jackson Games Daily Illuminator, http://www.sjgames.com/ill/

>
>September 13, 1998: GURPS TRAVELLER is here . . .
> . . . and it looks beautiful. We received our sample copies Friday
afternoon; the main shipment arrives next week, will ship to distributors
immediately, and will be available for release to retailers on September
23. Some of you will see it in your stores that same day or the next!
>Congratulations to Loren Wiseman, and the whole Traveller community, for a
job well done.
>-- Steve Jackson 
>
>
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #815
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 14 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 816



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Canon, Canon everywhere...
FFs1, FFS2, and Andy
GURPS Traveller Question
Jophur
Re: 1)  Re: Racial design philosophies 2) Lewis
re: Canon, Canon everywhere...
Re: 1)  Re: Racial design philosophies 2) Lewis
Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
TNE Questions
Off Topic: Technicians Needed
<g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )
OpenDoc lives! (sort of) was: RE (I hate microsoft) [LONG]
Re: FFs1, FFS2, and Andy
Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Deckplans
RE: Burning Questions
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
[none]
Re: [G:T] The art gallery

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:51:26 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Canon, Canon everywhere...

David J. Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I expected a little editing, but I never expected the Azhanti
Inquisition...

	That's a deliberate troll, isn't it ... I'll fall for it: "NOBODY
expects the Azhanti Inquisition!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Our chief weapon is Fear, Surprise, and a honkin' big Meson Gun!!"



Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:31:45 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: FFs1, FFS2, and Andy

Question for those of you who are more into the design systems than I am:

Do the changes between FFS1 and FFS2 mean that FFS2 designs are
incompatible with FFS1 ships? (Ignoring bug fixes, because I assume that
any gearhead would upgrade FFS1 to fix a bug anyway.)

If the systems are compatible, then if someone could write a supplement to
FFS2 that rates ships in the TNE (FFS1) style Andy could upgrade his
spreadsheet to produce Brilliant Lances-style control sheets, for those of
us who love that game.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:33:28 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: GURPS Traveller Question

What measurement units are used in GURPS Traveller, SI or American?

(This is a major question for me. If I have to convert everything to/from
the SI units we normally use to American units, the game may well be more
trouble than it's worth for me.)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:08:33 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Jophur

I've managed to make some Jophur miniatures. (Jophur are an alien race in
David Brin's Uplift universe.) I can't remember any references to colour,
and don't have time to do more looking than I already have [1]. Does
anyone remember if Brin ever described their colour, and if so what it is?

(So far I've found lots of references to "fatty" and "greasy", so
obviously gloss paint is appropriate. I also know that agitated rings are
purplish, that there are silver threads linking other rings to the master
ring, and that there's one reference to "striped" rings, which I think
means each ring is a different colour, but may also refer to the rings
themselves having stripes. Oh yes, and in _Infinity's Shore_ Lark
recognizes the pattern of Asx's rings in the new Ewasx stack, so there
must be differences between Jophur.)

After I get a bit better at sculpting, I'll be casting miniatures. I'll
post an announcement when they're ready.


[1] I learned halfway through class on Thursday that Microsoft changed how
macros work in Excel. (OK, the change probably happened a long time ago,
but I only got access to Excel 97 on Thursday.) This meant that what I'd
just spent an hour teaching the kids was useless, and I'm franticly trying
to learn how to make a button that brings up a dialog box to get
information for a cell. The references I have are spotty, the online help
isn't installed, and the laptop locks up every time the screen saver kicks
in. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:40:49 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: 1)  Re: Racial design philosophies 2) Lewis

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, alvin plummer wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have ship's from the Droyne?  If I recall correctly, the
> ancient's had such radically different design's among themselves
> that there is no such thing as a "common Ancient design".

This reminds me of a passage in MT, in which Droyne-built jump drives are
described as "the best in known space." Everything else I have on Droyne
suggests that Droyne are not a jump drive building race anymore. 

So, what's the story of this comment? Do some Droyne build jump drives for
exclusive Imperial clientele? 

- --
Mikko Parviainen
 IMTU tc+ tm++ tn+ ru+ ge++ 3i+ jt-- jd++ pi au st- ls kk hi++ dr++ as+
va+ so- zh+ da++ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:55:28 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: re: Canon, Canon everywhere...

At 08:51 AM 9/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
>David J. Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>I expected a little editing, but I never expected the Azhanti
>Inquisition...
>
>	That's a deliberate troll, isn't it ... I'll fall for it: "NOBODY
>expects the Azhanti Inquisition!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>"Our chief weapon is Fear, Surprise, and a honkin' big Meson Gun!!"

..and a fanatical devotion to the Imperium!
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:17:14 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: 1)  Re: Racial design philosophies 2) Lewis

>
>This reminds me of a passage in MT, in which Droyne-built jump drives are
>described as "the best in known space." Everything else I have on Droyne
>suggests that Droyne are not a jump drive building race anymore.
>


I got the impression that the droyne could make "the best in known space",
but had no motivation to do so

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:31:25 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> asks:
 
> >Clarisworks 5?... CLARISWORKS 5!!!?... I just bought Clarisworks 4 because
my

 <snip>

>  In the drawing tools? Not much difference. The word processor and
spreadsheet

 <snip>

> >Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to be on
the

 <snip>

>>  While this will probably start something regrettable, I can't resist pointing
>> out that the new iMac comes with ClarisWorks 5 (soon to be renamed
>> AppleWorks 5 due to Claris being resorbed by Apple...). Watching Photoshop 5
>> (NOT included) open in 6 seconds is kinda cool, too...
>
>How are the new iMacs, anyways?  I haven't had the chance to check them out 
>yet.

 As noted, very fast, compact, and very much a Mac. Based on my local store's
experiences, the iMac is pretty solidly constructed as well, with only three
real
hardware problems in 110+ sold. The jury is still out on USB, in my opinion,
but looking at least decent so far...
 Personally, I need more out of a computer, but for the "I want to do email,
homework, and the internet" crowd, it's perfect.

 ObTrav: Will there be anything like a "desktop" computer at the higher tech
levels, or would the computerized house/pet/wristwatch/pencil be more
prevalent?

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:16:37 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

> >The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
> >"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
> >believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
> >field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
> >then put plasma guns into their hands??

> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.  Try firing a
> M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes, thick rubber gloves, and
> a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.

Those are outdated (the M-17 masks and the M16A1) even in the Marines.  The
new masks have external screw-on filters, etc and are much better.  I can't
remember hte designation.  I know what you mean though.  Even those make it
impossible to do anything but "fake the funk" much less get a decent stock
weld and sight alignment.

Looking at how simple an eyeball display (FFS- TL11) is, I don't see why it
should be so complicated to have that slit be a backup to an electronic
helmet.  As far as EMP and bliding and such, filters and automatic cut-offs
couldn't be too complicated (especially by TL14), either.  Any troops
important enough to rate Combat Armor or Battle Dress (as opposed to a Combat
Environment Suit) would rate the expense, certainly.

Lastly, tunnel vision wouldn't necessarily hurt the aiming of a plasma/fusion
weapon.  The loss of peripheral vision could hurt in tactical movement, but
anything generating an EMP too make a simple visual device inoperable
(assuming it's not fibre-optically "immune") can mostly likely more directly
affect the said troops. : )  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:19:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: TNE Questions

 
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:35:58 +1000 (EST)
> From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
> Subject: Burning Questions
> 
> b.  In TNE, before GDW went belly-up, was any canon reference made to what
> was behind the 'Black Curtin' centred on Captial/Core?

	A Virus Empire is definitely the consensus viewpoint, and Dave 
Nilsen has said things on the tne-rces list that suggest this is what he 
had in mind.
 
> c.  Also TNE, who or what was the 'Empress' that Strephon receives the
> psionic message about at the Depot?

	No one knows.

> d.  Again TNE, what is the nature of the phenomenon that is causing chaos
> in Zhodani space, observed by the Imperial passive collection system?

	Doug Berry said that it was the Empress Wave (EW).  It actually 
can't be.  If you look at the geography of Known Space and remember that 
the EW travels at light speed then Zho and Vargr space would have been 
disrupted by the EW long before the Collapse.
	In the Refs section of the RSB, it says that it is not known 
whether the disruption of Zho society is caused by the EW or whether the 
Zhos have been "infected" by something from their core expeditions.  
Given that I've just shown that it can't be the EW in isolation, it must 
be the infection.  The EW could easily be an enabling device for the 
"infection" but the EW is not itself the cause of the Zho unrest.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:30:35 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Off Topic: Technicians Needed

Sorry for wasting bandwidth, but the circumstances are urgent. We
desperately need three computer technicians familiar with Windows NT.
Wages are about $18-20 per hour. Location: Toronto. Please pass along to
anyone who might be interested and available.

(Hey, I figured another Traveller player at work wouldn't hurt :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 98 18:09:48 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )

On 09/13/98 at 10:08 AM,  Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) said:

>[1] I learned halfway through class on Thursday that Microsoft
>changed how macros work in Excel. (OK, the change probably happened a
>long time ago, but I only got access to Excel 97 on Thursday.) 

Arg!  Thank you Rob for finding this *feature* for me.  

I'll be teaching basic spreadsheet use to my Computer Concepts
classes in about 6 weeks and I haven't had a chance to play with
Excel 97 yet.  Now, I'll know, at least, that I have to revise some
macros I have in sample sheets so that they will work on the student
machines.  BTW, our textbooks are still for Excel 95, so I suspect
macros will be the least of my worries.  I *do* hate Microsoft.

>This meant that what I'd just spent an hour teaching the kids was useless,

Don't you hate that.  I tell, students that "no matter specifics
about an application they learn, it'll be changed by the time the
next version comes out, so concentrate on the concepts and treat all
new versions as brand new programs."  I can't say I *like* that, but
that seems to be the way things are going.

Ob Traveller:  How are folks approaching software/hardware changes
across systems, polities, and versions?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:30:25 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

"Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net> writes:
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
>> Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
>> done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
>> the plans?  
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> I use Paint Shop Pro on my IBM PC. I'd like to try some other packages
>> though.
>
>Right now, I've just been scanning them in under Windows95, then cleaning them 
>up with xv & xpaint under Linux.

Gawd, this has to be the worst way of doing it I can think of.
I do most of my development artwork and graphics this way on my
Sparc, though, adding tgif and xbm to the equation.  Just downloaded
gimp to see if it's any use.

I really wish there were a good professional merged draw/paint prog
available for Solaris systems (and Linux for the rest of the world ...
can't expect everyone to have an UltraSPARC desktop 8-)


- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:30:51 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )

> Ob Traveller:  How are folks approaching software/hardware changes
> across systems, polities, and versions?

SuzD has this mental vision of a freetrader captain looking 
shocked, "What do you mean I have to uninstall the new 
sensor software because it is incompatible with my comm 
software. After what I paid for it?!?!!! Why can't they make this 
stuff backwards compatible? I don't care if it is impractical... 
No, I don't want to purchase the upgrade to my comm 
software. My comm software suits my needs just fine... What 
do you mean that everyone is migrating to a new protocol?"

By which time the captain is putting holes in the nearest wall 
with his head...

Gee, this sounds all too familiar...

Suz

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:33:44 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: OpenDoc lives! (sort of) was: RE (I hate microsoft) [LONG]

(Warning...this is a rough draft, pretty much typing as I think it)

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Ob Traveller:  How are folks approaching software/hardware changes
> across systems, polities, and versions?
>


Slowly, very slowly...with cross empire time measured in months to years, and
definitely years for things to permeate the entire Imperium, there can be
nothing like the insane pace of software development that exists today. At
that rate Microsoft/Sylea will have written Windows 5698 by the time Dos 3.2
has reached the Spinward marches. That way lies utter chaos.

Software engineering will be much more real engineering than the art it is
today, with proven modules you essentially 'bolt' together to make programs.
Programming with these modules will be more akin to designing machine parts
and mechanisms using CAD software than programming as we know it today.

This does mean there would be a lot of variation in design, but I also suspect
that by then, there will be a lot more de-facto standardization, from custom
as much as anything else.

Data will carry it's description with it, and the programming necessary to
utilize it. A spectrographic dataset will be collected with spectrometric
analysis algorithms embedded; textual data will carry with it the abiltity to
change fonts, display illustrations, etc within the data.

While this may seem wasteful of memory, it also reduces the OS to a framework
to hold program modules that are loaded and processed with the data. So long
as the modules are bug free within that dataset, that's all that they'll ever
operate on, much like protected memory, only more so, since the OS has no core
services except module swapping.

This implies a sort of Stationery kind of metaphor instead of a program as a
Tool that creates or operates on separate bits of data.

From a commercial standpoint, it would also make more business sense...you
don't buy a program, you buy a chip/disc/download that has, say, 150 'sheets'
of Photoshop, or 200 'pages' of Excel. There are already suggestions in place
to rent software by the hour rather than owning it, in some of the network
computer scenarios floating about. To give someone a copy of yoour work
requires using another page from your stationery pad, or of of theirs.

You could, I suppose, at some more cost (or none, depending on the licensing
agreement), make a Excel sheet into a pad...Andy could sell or give (if he was
very generous) away pads of FFS sheets. These would contain a subset of the
full Excel code that does only what Andy's programmed into it. This differs
from the current spreadsheet in that you wouldn't need to own a pad of Excel
to use it.

It could be set up so that you could erase sheets as many times as you wanted;
so long as you didn't want a permanent copy of it, you could get one sheet of
Akin's FFS2 and make as many ships as you wanted out of it.

Read-only copies...'printouts' of sheets could be possible as well... these
would encapsulate only enough of the program to display the data in the format
that the creator specified, separate fom the creator sheet. This might be a
toggle in the sheet itself..to 'write protect' it. Once you finalize the
'printout' of the sheet you can't erase it and redo it. On the other
hand...then the sheet is legally yours and can be duplicated as many times as
you want. I'll bet Kinko's will do it pretty cheap...

The same thing, but on a different level, could be done with software creation
pads, aka compilers, only their 'write protected' output are new pads instead
of sheets.

A pad could be a combination of all of the above...I could buy a 150 sheet pad
of Photoshop, but the filters I devise using the filter creation part of the
Photoshop pad could become their own sub-pad, with limited or limitless sheets
depending on the license I've purchased or the agreement that comes with the program.

In fact, I may be able to freely distribute them, as I can the filters
constructed using Photoshops 'filter factory', or Excel macros. Note...these
filter pad sheets don't exist on their own, they're combined with data in a
regular Photoshop sheet to produce an effect, and thereafter are only
'absorbed' into the sheet, or destroyed if I undo the effect.

Yes, this is essentially the logical culmination of object-oriented
programming and concepts like OpenDoc...Nicolas Wirth was talking about these
ideas decades ago, but it does make a far more stable computing environment.

Note, this is for consumer level computing, oriented toward content creation.
The computers running starships may be something else entirely, after all,
it'd _really_ suck to run out of gunnery sheets in the middle of a battle ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:26:28 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FFs1, FFS2, and Andy

At 09:31 am 9/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Question for those of you who are more into the design systems than
I am:
>
>Do the changes between FFS1 and FFS2 mean that FFS2 designs are
>incompatible with FFS1 ships? (Ignoring bug fixes, because I assume
that
>any gearhead would upgrade FFS1 to fix a bug anyway.)

	Depends on what you mean by incompatible. You will NOT be able to
get the same ship out of both systems. However, you can rate ships
built with FF&S2 using TNE rules, as long as you remember that the
armor ratings changed ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:54:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

In mail you write:

>> > Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people
>> > wondering why the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at
>> > the bar, next to a bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...
>> 
>> Maybe he's a survivor of one of the planets the Hivers did that
>> manipulation on?
>
> I *KNEW* there were survivors dammit!!!!!  <grin>
>
> Now for something totally different...
>
> It's been since the mid-70's since I had a college math course and the old 
> grey matter's been thru Hell & high water.  I need to know how to find the 
> volume of a sphere.  Anybody happen to know offhand?

volume = 4 pi * R^3 /3
surface= 4 pi r^2

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:58:49 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

In mail you write:

>  Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to
>> be on the losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating
>> (g--d--n 166mz piece of junk!)

> (Hey, I'm running a 200MHz 603e PPC machine that feels faster than my work
> PC at the same MHz, but then I think about the performanc of a G3 PPC and
> shudder).

Yeah. Right.

I'm sitting here with a 386SX-40. And until a few months back I was
using a 10 Mhz 286-XT. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:15:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deckplans

In mail you write:

> This message has 2 purposes. One I seem to have lost touch with the TML
> again 8< ! The last time a message to the list seemed to restart it...so .
>
> Second, to make it Traveller related. I've been playing with a number of
> deck plans in the spirit of the parallel vs. perpendicular arguement. I've
> come to the conclusion that parallel is really more efficient, as far as
> waste space, for small craft. Every streamlined design I've sketched seems
> to involve large cargo elevators or more massive handleing equipment for
> perpendicular than would be needed on a parallel design.

I've only just roughed out the shape for a 100 ton scout. I'm going to
use a roughly conical hull (the point gets rounded off a lot). not
counting things like landing gear, it'll be 20 meters in diameter and
13 meters tall (actually it'll be several meters shorter due to the
rounding of the nose). So I figure that there are three decks.

The lowest deck has the engineering spaces in the center, and the
highest deck is the control room. Cargo, such as it is will go into the
lowest deck, and quarters should go on the middle deck. I can't be more
definite until I get the volume requirements for various things.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:00:33 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: RE: Burning Questions

On 13 September 1998 14:35:58 +1000 (EST), JEFFREY MALONE
<j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au> wrote:
>>>>
<Snip>
a.  What is actually in 'The Spinward Marches Campaign?'  I have a
_very_
good collection of CT material, and I don't think any copies of it ever
made it to OZ.
<<<<
I got my copy in Mind Games, Melbourne, I think. I certainly saw it in
Napoleons in Brisbane in 1987 although I doubt if they still have a copy
:-)
>>>>
b.  In TNE, before GDW went belly-up, was any canon reference made to
what
was behind the 'Black Curtin' centred on Captial/Core?

c.  Also TNE, who or what was the 'Empress' that Strephon receives the
psionic message about at the Depot?

d.  Again TNE, what is the nature of the phenomenon that is causing
chaos
in Zhodani space, observed by the Imperial passive collection system?
<<<<

Some time last year (I think), Dave Nilsen posted (or someone forwarded
a mail from Dave) to either TML or TNE-RCES a summary of what was
intended to happen in the future, after whatever the 'empress wave' was
had passed and it's effects had subsided. Something about AIs, wandering
'psionic knights' and the wreckage of not only the Imperium, but also
the Regency and the RC.

Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.

Andy
================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:31:38 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Yeah. Right.
>
> I'm sitting here with a 386SX-40. And until a few months back I was
> using a 10 Mhz 286-XT.

Grab the $100 PII 266 Celeron and overclock that baby on an ATX
motherboard. I recommend Abit.  The effective operating speed for
3D games is 400Mhz.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:11:58 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

>In mail you write:
>
>I'm sitting here with a 386SX-40. And until a few months back I was
>using a 10 Mhz 286-XT.
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


I'm getting ready to upgrade one of my systems from a 486 DX2/66...I'll give
you the motherboard and processor if you think you would like it.  (You're
in the Portland area, right?)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:27:14 +0300
From: Pietu <himberg.peter@hkol.fi>
Subject: [none]

 unsubscribe traveller himberg.peter@hkol.fi

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:33:44 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Lars Adler <adler@hartree.pc.Uni-Koeln.DE>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> >That is a veggie bar.  So really, I have a problem with the Vargr eating 
> >veggies....  :-)
> 
> You've never owned a dog, have you?  Dogs will eat anything, given the
> chance.

Including shoes and newpapers ... no, I don't have a dog.

L.A.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #816
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 14 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 817



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [G:T] The art gallery
Re: TL11 Tramp freighter 
GT Measurements
Re: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )
Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Re: GT Measurements
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: Burning Questions
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: Burning Questions 
Re: TL11 Tramp freighter 
Vargr Bashing (wes RE: [G:T] The art gallery)
GT ISBNs
Tech marches on
Re: GT Measurements
RE: Burning Questions
FF&S 1 or 2
Bad uniform ideas...
Re: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #815
Re: FF&S 1 or 2
Re: Titan Games Preview for 9/13/98
Re: Moderator needed for mailing list
Re: MT Starship spreadsheet
RE: Burning Questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 03:49:13 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: [G:T] The art gallery

how do you get a vargr to shut up?  Throw him a piece of cardboard 
with some peanut butter on it.
Rob
> > >That is a veggie bar.  So really, I have a problem with the 
Vargr eating 
> > >veggies....  :-)
> > 
> > You've never owned a dog, have you?  Dogs will eat anything, 
given the
> > chance.
> 
> Including shoes and newpapers ... no, I don't have a dog.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:10:27 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: TL11 Tramp freighter 

On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> No Makefile, so I typed 'make main' and it compiled.
> 
> Worked, too, kindasorta.  It won't let me get above a 20 ton hull.  <sigh>
> 
> What you running over there?  I'm using Red Hat 4.1 & some weird enhancements, 
> libc5, & gcc 2.7.2.

I designed my program on RedHat 5.0 with gcc 2.7.2.3 and libc 2.0.5

Compile using   'gcc main.c'

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:14:49 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: GT Measurements

GURPS Traveller uses Feet and yards and stuff like that. Imperial
(figures!).

I found this out AFTER doing all those world sizes in metres. They had to
be converted back again....

Life... better off without it, I say.

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:51:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )

In mail you write:

>> Ob Traveller:  How are folks approaching software/hardware changes
>> across systems, polities, and versions?
>
> SuzD has this mental vision of a freetrader captain looking 
> shocked, "What do you mean I have to uninstall the new 
> sensor software because it is incompatible with my comm 
> software. After what I paid for it?!?!!! Why can't they make this 
> stuff backwards compatible? I don't care if it is impractical... 
> No, I don't want to purchase the upgrade to my comm 
> software. My comm software suits my needs just fine... What 
> do you mean that everyone is migrating to a new protocol?"
>
> By which time the captain is putting holes in the nearest wall 
> with his head...

Now you know why TL changes are so infrequent. And in any case, I
rather expect that within a few TLs programs will be assembled the way
circuitry is, out of standard *known* reliable building blocks.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:29:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring

In mail you write:

>  ObTrav: Will there be anything like a "desktop" computer at the higher tech
> levels, or would the computerized house/pet/wristwatch/pencil be more
> prevalent?

There are uses for larger displays. And keyboards do have inherent
advantages over handwriting recognition. 

So I expect that your personal computer may be worn on your body
somewhere. Partly for protection. You may have "glasses" with virtual
display capability built into them, and you may have a watch as a
simple i/o device (a few buttons, maybe a microphone, a simple display,
and an IR link). For more complex i/o, you'd have an object about the
size of a PDA that can display larger amounts of data and recognize
drawings, shorthand, and handwritting. It'll likely have a scanner
built into one end so you can run it over a page, or drawings on a cave
wall.

And a "workstation" would be a keyboard, larger display, better camera,
and hardcopy output device that link via IR or cable to your personal
computer. It'd also be the link to the data network. 

You'd also be able to link to and control wall sized displays. 

Your personal system would carry your private *data* and maybe some
custom applications. Things like word processing, spread sheets, etc,
would be loaded and run from the network, with *tiny* usage charges. 
You could also add modules containing even "standard" applications if
you expect to spend a lot of time away from the network.

I suspect that most applications will *have* to have moved to the
equivalent of "ROM cartridges" long before even M:0, simply because of
all the hassles with viruses and the like. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 05:36:43 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

>
>Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:33:28 -0400
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
>Subject: GURPS Traveller Question
>
>What measurement units are used in GURPS Traveller, SI or American?
>
>(This is a major question for me. If I have to convert everything to/from
>the SI units we normally use to American units, the game may well be more
>trouble than it's worth for me.)
>

GURPS uses Imperial (i.e., "American") units.  As of the playtest draft,
that was the standard for GT as well - damn it.  I've never understood
SJGames fascination with an outmoded standard; it's one of the few things I
really don't like about GURPS.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:14 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GT Measurements

From:           	"MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Date sent:      	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:14:49 +0100

> GURPS Traveller uses Feet and yards and stuff like that. Imperial
> (figures!).

YUCK!!!!!! Well in my book that is a big strike agin it. Somehow trying to figure 
out how many gallons of Lhyd make up a displacement ton just doesn't fit with 
Traveller.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:03:28 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> This has gotten me to thinking, and an advance apology if this has been
> >> done to death already, but what software packages do people use for drawing
> >> the plans?  
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> I use Paint Shop Pro on my IBM PC. I'd like to try some other packages
> >> though.
> >
> >Right now, I've just been scanning them in under Windows95, then cleaning
> > them up with xv & xpaint under Linux.
> 
> Gawd, this has to be the worst way of doing it I can think of.
> I do most of my development artwork and graphics this way on my
> Sparc, though, adding tgif and xbm to the equation.  Just downloaded
> gimp to see if it's any use.

I can't get GIMP to work for me.  Course, I'm using an antique that's been 
pushed to the max -- a 486slc2-66 with a mere 16 megs of RAM.  It's an old 
Evergreen motherboard, surplus when I got it 4 years ago.

> I really wish there were a good professional merged draw/paint prog
> available for Solaris systems (and Linux for the rest of the world ...
> can't expect everyone to have an UltraSPARC desktop 8-)

Heh.  I'd like a decent SGI workstation myself.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:11:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Burning Questions

Andy Long wrote:

> Some time last year (I think), Dave Nilsen posted (or someone forwarded
> a mail from Dave) to either TML or TNE-RCES a summary of what was
> intended to happen in the future, after whatever the 'empress wave' was
> had passed and it's effects had subsided. Something about AIs, wandering
> 'psionic knights' and the wreckage of not only the Imperium, but also
> the Regency and the RC.
>

That HAD to be the TNE-RCES list, as I would have definitely remembered it
from the TML!

Could some kind soul please re-post it here? Or are the TNE-RCES list archives
searchable somewhere by non-list members?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:16:52 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> In mail you write:
> 
> >  Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> Ob. Traveller.... I am finally getting a feel for what it's like to
> >> be on the losing end of a tech level imbalance...it's frustrating
> >> (g--d--n 166mz piece of junk!)
> 
> > (Hey, I'm running a 200MHz 603e PPC machine that feels faster than my work
> > PC at the same MHz, but then I think about the performanc of a G3 PPC and
> > shudder).
> 
> Yeah. Right.
> 
> I'm sitting here with a 386SX-40. And until a few months back I was
> using a 10 Mhz 286-XT. 

What are you doing with *THAT* dinosaur???

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:18:59 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Burning Questions 

> Some time last year (I think), Dave Nilsen posted (or someone forwarded
> a mail from Dave) to either TML or TNE-RCES a summary of what was
> intended to happen in the future, after whatever the 'empress wave' was
> had passed and it's effects had subsided. Something about AIs, wandering
> 'psionic knights' and the wreckage of not only the Imperium, but also
> the Regency and the RC.

Personally, I wouldn't cry for more than 20 microseconds if the Regency got 
whacked out by the EW.

> Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.

No doubt.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:28:44 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: TL11 Tramp freighter 

> I designed my program on RedHat 5.0 with gcc 2.7.2.3 and libc 2.0.5
> 
> Compile using   'gcc main.c'

*THAT* worked.

Now I know why the precompiled version didn't work for me -- incompatible libc.  RedHat went to glibc with 5.0 & I'm still using 4.1 with some 4.2 additions.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:43:33 -0500
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: Vargr Bashing (wes RE: [G:T] The art gallery)

Ok, as the self-designated representative of the superior and chosen
Vargr race in this sector, I must take offence at the following
statements:

On Monday, 14 September 1998 05:49, Robert Biggar Iii
[SMTP:rwb@tc.fluke.com] wrote:
> how do you get a vargr to shut up?  Throw him a piece of cardboard 
> with some peanut butter on it.
> Rob
> > > >That is a veggie bar.  So really, I have a problem with the 
> Vargr eating 
> > > >veggies....  :-)

Vargr are omnivores, as most intelligent creatures are (sorry K'kree!).

> > > You've never owned a dog, have you?  Dogs will eat anything, 
> given the
> > > chance.

This is only partly true.  we will eat anything *that hits the floor* on
the off chance that it *might* be food.  If it isn't, we can always
throw it back up later.

ObTrav:
	How bout specialized life support equipment for Vargr craft that
allow the scent in the atmosphere to be changed?  Crew feeling down,
pump in the smell of a well-roasted hunk of meat; about to go into
combat - load up on the smell of warm blood, etc, etc.

- -vargr1                                                  UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ----------------------------------- The Future is in Beta
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ         |   vargr1@jcn1.com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." |   dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:03:01 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: GT ISBNs

Gentles,

I've gotten several requests for ISBNs over the last couple of days (go
figure...)


GURPS Traveller (softback)        1-55634-349-3     Stock #6600
GURPS Traveller (hardback)       1-55634-356-6     Stock #6602
Behind the Claw                          1-55634-353-1     Stock #6601





Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:01:43 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Tech marches on

The following news release reminds me of all the neat little
ways a ref can make PCs' lives more interesting.

"For Sept. 14, 1998 

Ford, NASA bring artificial intelligence to cars and trucks

Ford Motor Company News Release

DEARBORN, Mich. - Ford Motor Company (NYSE: F) and NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory are bringing artificial intelligence to trucks
and cars. 

A new neural network computer chip that mimics the human mind
promises to reduce vehicle emissions and improve fuel economy by
monitoring fuel combustion. The neural network chip, designed by
computer scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and
licensed by Ford Motor Company, has the potential to augment
current vehicle on-board diagnostic systems. The chip may diagnose
and control emissions behavior on a continuous basis. JPL and Ford
scientists contend that the chip represents the most significant
change in the way computing is done on vehicles since computers
were introduced into automobiles in the mid-1970's. "

Heh. Imagine if the AI improves over TLs to control more functions.

ObTrav:  While using a rented grav vehicle (or using their own)  on a 
hi-tech world which requires linking to a traffic control net, our
intrepid heros decide to swoop down on a rival megacorp's building
to break in and retrieve the info they've been paid to get.
Unfortunately, the vehicle responds to the controls by saying,
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

Hmmm...has anybody thought of what other applications "smart"
processors would logically be used for and actually used them in 
a campaign? If so, how did they work out during play? 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:04:06 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: GT Measurements

At 23:51 14/09/98 +1200, you wrote:
>From:           	"MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
>Date sent:      	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:14:49 +0100
>
>> GURPS Traveller uses Feet and yards and stuff like that. Imperial
>> (figures!).
>
>YUCK!!!!!! Well in my book that is a big strike agin it. Somehow trying to
figure 
>out how many gallons of Lhyd make up a displacement ton just doesn't fit
with 
>Traveller.
>
>Andrew etc.
>  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

Well at least they can fix that in the errata or the second printing :-)



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:05:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: RE: Burning Questions

 
Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> wrote:
> Some time last year (I think), Dave Nilsen posted (or someone forwarded
> a mail from Dave) to either TML or TNE-RCES a summary of what was
> intended to happen in the future, after whatever the 'empress wave' was
> had passed and it's effects had subsided. Something about AIs, wandering
> 'psionic knights' and the wreckage of not only the Imperium, but also
> the Regency and the RC.
> 
> Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.

	I don't think this is an accurate characterization of what Dave
said.  The Regency and the RC were not going to be "wrecked" by any 
means.  The EW was going to make psionics a more prominent part of the 
environment, which might cause some changes but there was by no means a 
plan to destroy the Regency.  The RC was also not going to be destroyed, 
though we can see from the "future retrospectives" in the TNE mainbook 
that the Star Vikings weren't going to be around in a few decades, having 
served their purpose.  As for the "psionic knights" this was just short 
hand for the descedents of the Regency psions and Zho nobles.  If you 
look at the description of them in the RSB they both have strong moral 
codes and an even stronger sense of obligation to society.  The "knight" 
description was just an off-hand comment intended to quickly convey this 
general idea.
	
- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:37:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: FF&S 1 or 2

So which is more real-world accurate, 1 or 2?

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:58:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Bad uniform ideas...

Doug Berry <dberry@hooked.net> writes:

> At 07:09 PM 9/11/98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >The illo of the Imperial Marines is one of mine. Sorry if I tend to pick
> >"plausible" over "cool" - most of the time. I just couldn't make myself
> >believe that anyone would try to fight in a helmet that reduces your visual
> >field to a tiny slit. Would you give your soldiers tunnel vision... and
> >then put plasma guns into their hands??
> 
> My response?
> 
> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.  Try firing a
> M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes, thick rubber gloves, and
> a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.

ROTFL!!  Been there, done that!

I remember my USMC NBC training and thinking, "Man, just hit me with a
flame thrower or thermite and, *WHOOSH*, instant American BBQ.  I'm
supplying the Kingsford brickettes!  Hell, I *AM* the Kingsford
brickettes."

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:02:21 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: <g> I hate Microsoft! <g> (was Re: Jophur )

In a message dated 9/14/98 6:36:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:

<< 
 >> Ob Traveller:  How are folks approaching software/hardware changes
 >> across systems, polities, and versions?
 >

I once played with a concept where every software based item was available in
proprietary types A B (and sometimes C). Not only did thee players have the
choice of buying A or B (or were saddled with it based on a die roll for items
they already had). We also had a list of which version the Scouts, Marines,
Navy, and Army used.

It added lots of complexity but not a lot of fun.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:03:25 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #815

     Everyone seems to have some comment on the Vargar and K'ree (?)
sitting together in a bar.  Most of the comments have ranged that this bar
must serve either meat or veggies.  I don't know about all of you, but the
last bar I was in served alcohol.  Now we all know that the Vargar will
drink anything that doesn't run from 'em, and the K'ree(?) seem just a
little on the teetotaller(?) side for me.  But we must remember that most
good alcohol is made from the K'ree's(?) main dietary supplement, veggies.

Leo 8-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:02:31 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: FF&S 1 or 2

Real-world accurate to what??? You dig up the real world stats of jump
drive, CG, meson guns, fusion powerplants, etc, and we can have this
debate. Until then it's _all_ SWAG, some wilder than most.

Both are internally consistent to a reasonable degree. 

Both have points that people ernestly disagree with. 

Both have lots of unintended consequence type things, like the fact that
energy is so cheap, society is changed beyond recognition, near-C rocks
are the doomsday weapon of choice, piracy is in sort of a heisenberg box
along with the cat, neither dead nor alive, possible or impossible.

Neither can accurately recreate my Smith and Wesson .38 revolver to
real-world stats, though FFS2 comes closer.

Mike Schade wrote:
> 
> So which is more real-world accurate, 1 or 2?
> 
> Mike

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:59:39 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Titan Games Preview for 9/13/98

>    Web Site location: http://www.titan-games.com/
...
>Game Designer's Workshop:
>    (Traveller)
>        The Traveller Book (hardbound) (201) [$25, VF]
>    (Traveller: The New Era)
>        Aliens of the Rim, Hivers and Ithklur (318) [$15.5, NM]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:13:46 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Moderator needed for mailing list

>Due to work demands, Sean Reynolds, the moderator for the Greyhawk Mailing
>list
>is having to step back.[snip]

Whew!  For a second there I thought Rob was stepping down.

Let's take this opportunity to praise Rob for his behind-the-scenes work
keeping the Traveller mailing list up and relatively free of non-traveller
spam (I think its outside his mandate to keep the list free of Traveller
spam)!

Thanks Rob!

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:16:01 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: MT Starship spreadsheet

>Greetings,
>
>     I am wondering if anyone has, or knows where to find, a MT ship design
>spreadsheet?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.
>
>DustyLV769@aol.com

Several actually.

I'll send a copy of mine to Dusty under seperate cover.  I'll let others
reply with theirs as they wish.

A bunch of these were collected on the HIWG-CD, by the way.

Mine is Excel 5.0 compatible.  Other requests welcome.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:37:21 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: RE: Burning Questions

> Some time last year (I think), Dave Nilsen posted (or someone forwarded
> a mail from Dave) to either TML or TNE-RCES a summary of what was
> intended to happen in the future, after whatever the 'empress wave' was
> had passed and it's effects had subsided. Something about AIs, wandering
> 'psionic knights' and the wreckage of not only the Imperium, but also
> the Regency and the RC.

I saw nothing indicating the "wreckage" of the Regency and RC.  Indeed there's
a "flowering" of psionics of some kind (and a resultant change of culture),
but we were told about a "future project" that would be about a time when the
effects of the Wave were finally going away (and sophonts were still wondering
just what the Wave was, and what caused it).  It was an answer that indicated
the Wave was meant to be mysterious and would stay that way through thousands
of years.

> Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.

mmm... Not to me.  Maybe you brought out of it what you brought in?  YMMV.

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #817
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 15 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 818



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Burning Questions
RE: Burning Questions
T4: Native career
Radiators and Reactors
GURPS Traveller - Coming Soon?
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Technology
Technology
Re: T4: Native career
Re: GURPS Traveller - Coming Soon?
Re: Moderator needed for mailing list
Re: Tech marches on 
Re: Off Topic: Technicians Needed
Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
And here he comes....
Re: Deckplans
The TL 8 freighter challenge (longish)
RE: Burning Question
Policy Question?
Pocket Empires

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:49:38 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Burning Questions

> Could some kind soul please re-post it here? Or are the TNE-RCES list
archives
> searchable somewhere by non-list members?

www.reference.com

It wasn't on topic.  In fact, Dave said he could not properly go through teh
details since he was hoping on finding a way to "do it right" and get
published support for TNE.  Apparently, he's been unsuccessful. : (   

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:03:26 +0200 (CEST)
From: Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: RE: Burning Questions

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

> I saw nothing indicating the "wreckage" of the Regency and RC.  Indeed there's
> a "flowering" of psionics of some kind (and a resultant change of culture),
> but we were told about a "future project" that would be about a time when the
> effects of the Wave were finally going away (and sophonts were still wondering
> just what the Wave was, and what caused it).  It was an answer that indicated
> the Wave was meant to be mysterious and would stay that way through thousands
> of years.
> 
> > Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.

"Something wonderful is happening."

Steinar

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:53:10 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: T4: Native career

I have created a career suitable for natives of TL0-1 worlds (ie up to and
including the Middle Ages). It can be viewed at my homepage. Just go to
the Traveller section.

Please make comments, as this is the first career I design...

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:05:18 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Radiators and Reactors

What would happen if you insulated a ship's radiators to prevent them
from dumping heat?  Would it force the reactor to shut down?  What would
it take to insulate the radiators?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:29:58 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: GURPS Traveller - Coming Soon?

Yep, it sure is.  I stopped into my FLGS today, looked on the
extensive GURPS shelves, and didn't see it.

So I turn to my FLGS Product Manager, and say...

"Obviously I've jumped the gun a bit - but have you been given a
date yet?"

(There's obviously some context missing here - but he knows what
the context is, and answered...)

"They told us that it will be shipping 29 Sep."

('They' was missing a bit of context, because I didn't know it at
the time...)

"Which means you should be seeing it the first or second week in
Oct."

"Well, since the 29th is Friday, ..."

(It's not - it's Tuesday.  But it didn't connect at the time)

"As long as they don't trash you like they did on the IG prods."

"Not likely - we get it directly from SJG."

(The context has been filled in!)

"Cool.  I'll be looking for it."

So there you have it - the unofficial official word is that GURPS
Traveller will be in your FLGS as soon after 29 Sep as you
usually see GURPS products after their ship date.

<<bounce, bounce, bounce, ...>> I can hardly wait...
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:20:46 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

>GURPS uses Imperial (i.e., "American") units.  As of the playtest draft,
>that was the standard for GT as well - damn it.  I've never understood
>SJGames fascination with an outmoded standard; it's one of the few things
>I
>really don't like about GURPS.

I suspect it uses American units, _not_ Imperial. The Imperial gallon, for
example, is larger than the American gallon. [1] So even if I were to dig
out my old pre-metric material, I'd _still_ have to convert.  Fornicate.
Here we have a game, set years in the future, spanning the stars, and it's
written in the parochial units of a single country on Earth.

Think I may wait until Marc lines up another publisher. Can you imagine
the fun doing FFS and converting units all the time? 


[1] Historical aside: when the revolution came, the colonial merchants
started using the wine gallon for everything, disguising a change in price
(the gallon got smaller, the price stayed the same). 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

Joe Pettit writes:
> What would happen if you insulated a ship's radiators to prevent them
> from dumping heat?  Would it force the reactor to shut down?  What would
> it take to insulate the radiators?
> 
Insulating a _radiator_ is fairly pointless -- radiators don't do anything
except dump heat, so the net effect would be to just make the radiator less
effective, which isn't particularly useful.  However, simply insulating the
engine and detaching the radiators will cause the radiators not to dump heat,
which will have the net effect of causing the power plant to heat up until
either (a) it leaks enough heat through insulation to dump its heat output
anyway (this will probably have the side effect of cooking the crew), or (b) it
overheats (and, most likely, shuts down).

Assuming your goal is reducing your thermal signature, the only way to do this
over long periods of time is to reduce your heat production (by making your
power plant more efficient, or by reducing your power consumption).  For short
periods of time you can eliminate heat by dumping it into some form of chemical
heat sink, but at the power output of Traveller fusion reactors (and the
timeframe of Traveller space combat) this isn't really practical.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

Rob Prior writes:
> >GURPS uses Imperial (i.e., "American") units.  As of the playtest draft,
> >that was the standard for GT as well - damn it.  I've never understood
> >SJGames fascination with an outmoded standard; it's one of the few things
> >I
> >really don't like about GURPS.
> 
> I suspect it uses American units, _not_ Imperial. The Imperial gallon, for
> example, is larger than the American gallon. [1] So even if I were to dig
> out my old pre-metric material, I'd _still_ have to convert.  Fornicate.
> Here we have a game, set years in the future, spanning the stars, and it's
> written in the parochial units of a single country on Earth.
> 
> Think I may wait until Marc lines up another publisher. Can you imagine
> the fun doing FFS and converting units all the time? 

Shrug.  Presumably if you use G:Traveller you'll use G:Vehicles instead of
FF&S, and seeing as it uses american units there's no conversion issue.

For conversion, just use the simple conversion scheme:
1 yard = 1 meter
2 lb = 1 kilogram
1 ton = 1 metric ton

This is usually close enough for gaming purposes ;).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:56:34 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Technology

     What would you do if your corporation discovered the secrets of
Stutterwarp and had the production facilities to build starships equipped
with this fantastic drive system?  You are currently sandwiched between the
Regency and a very hostile pocket empire, that has grown too big for its
pocket.  The Regency has just annexed your region of space, although the
governments around you have formed a league of united world to retain their
own autonomy, and the nasty evil pocket empire has declared war against you
interests wherever they find them never mind it is very much in the middle
of a land grab.  Do you attempt to keep you technological edge for as long
as possible?  Do you sell the technology to the Regency to help set your
corporation into a formal and stable relationship with them?  Or do you
sell the information to the largest ship building firm inside the Regency
proper, for as much as you can get from them?
     Any help on this question you could provide would be great.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:56:53 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Technology

     What would you do if your corporation discovered the secrets of
Stutterwarp and had the production facilities to build starships equipped
with this fantastic drive system?  You are currently sandwiched between the
Regency and a very hostile pocket empire, that has grown too big for its
pocket.  The Regency has just annexed your region of space, although the
governments around you have formed a league of united world to retain their
own autonomy, and the nasty evil pocket empire has declared war against you
interests wherever they find them never mind it is very much in the middle
of a land grab.  Do you attempt to keep you technological edge for as long
as possible?  Do you sell the technology to the Regency to help set your
corporation into a formal and stable relationship with them?  Or do you
sell the information to the largest ship building firm inside the Regency
proper, for as much as you can get from them?
     Any help on this question you could provide would be great.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:22:42 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T4: Native career

Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm wrote:

> I have created a career suitable for natives of TL0-1 worlds (ie up to and
> including the Middle Ages). It can be viewed at my homepage. Just go to
> the Traveller section.
>
> Please make comments, as this is the first career I design...

I like it and its certainly welcome.  But I'm not sure I follow your meaning
of
"Native."  From the skill list and the description you give (quoted here:
"Many worlds are not up-to-date with the Imperial technology, and many
remain at a very low technological level. The inhabitants of these worlds are
a rough bunch.  Routine tasks: Hunting, fighting, surviving in the wilderness,
fail to understand technological items."), it sounds like you mean
hunter-gatherer types.

If that is what you mean, I would take out Broker, Medical, and maybe
Melee Combat (since that is fighting with rules), and add some of the
Charisma skills.

But when you get to the Medieval period, society gets much more complex
and divided, so a whole host of skills become available, and the idea of
careers starts with everything from Priests to Paupers.

Hmm.  I'm getting an idea here.
Reworking the careers for TL 1 - 4.

Merchants, Mercenaries,
Nobles, Knaves
Sailors, Soldiers, Serfs, Scholars,
Priests, Paupers, Pirates
Bards, Rogues

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:25:08 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller - Coming Soon?

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> Yep, it sure is.  I stopped into my FLGS today,

Is that Favorite Little Game Store?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:32:06 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Moderator needed for mailing list

At 03:21 PM 9/14/98 -0500, Pete wrote:

<Snip>...
>Let's take this opportunity to praise Rob for his behind-the-scenes work
>keeping the Traveller mailing list up and relatively free of non-traveller
>spam (I think its outside his mandate to keep the list free of Traveller
>spam)!
>

Hear, hear!  Fine job!


Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:17:31 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Tech marches on 

> ObTrav:  While using a rented grav vehicle (or using their own)  on a 
> hi-tech world which requires linking to a traffic control net, our
> intrepid heros decide to swoop down on a rival megacorp's building
> to break in and retrieve the info they've been paid to get.
> Unfortunately, the vehicle responds to the controls by saying,
> "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

Heheh.
 
> Hmmm...has anybody thought of what other applications "smart"
> processors would logically be used for and actually used them in 
> a campaign? If so, how did they work out during play? 

Personally, I'm all *for* tech being a 'speedbump' PCs have to run over to get 
where they're going.  It allows them high tech, but lets the ref limit what 
they can do with it.  At the minimum, it can slow 'em down enough for the ref 
to figure out the next move to pull off on them.

IMTG right now, I'm hearing a LOT of bitching that there's no state of the art 
military grade equipment availiable to the party.  IMNSFBHO, it keeps the 
party from pulling a 'glass beads or bullets' scenario in their dealings with 
the locals.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:45:43 -0400
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Technicians Needed

Hhmmmm, full time low level novices start at $20 an hour here in the Boston
area.  People with training/experience can easily demand (and get) $35+ per
hour as a technician.  If you are willing to go contractor (which is what I
am) you can get up to $70 an hour for a long term contract (I've been on
mine 10 months, although I make less than the high quote).  I just got asked
if I would be willing to add another 12 months to this one when it runs out
(on Dec. 31st).  Boston is experiencing a huge shortage of qualified techs.
Come on down, I'll help YOU find a job.

Thom

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Sunday, September 13, 1998 6:43 PM
Subject: Off Topic: Technicians Needed


>Sorry for wasting bandwidth, but the circumstances are urgent. We
>desperately need three computer technicians familiar with Windows NT.
>Wages are about $18-20 per hour. Location: Toronto. Please pass along to
>anyone who might be interested and available.
>
>(Hey, I figured another Traveller player at work wouldn't hurt :-)
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:24:19 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Joe Pettit writes:
> > What would happen if you insulated a ship's radiators to prevent them
> > from dumping heat?  Would it force the reactor to shut down?  What would
> > it take to insulate the radiators?
> >
> Insulating a _radiator_ is fairly pointless -- radiators don't do anything
> except dump heat, so the net effect would be to just make the radiator less
> effective, which isn't particularly useful.  However, simply insulating the
> engine and detaching the radiators will cause the radiators not to dump heat,
> which will have the net effect of causing the power plant to heat up until
> either (a) it leaks enough heat through insulation to dump its heat output
> anyway (this will probably have the side effect of cooking the crew), or (b) it
> overheats (and, most likely, shuts down).
>
> Assuming your goal is reducing your thermal signature,

No, actually, I've got a pesky scout ship with a watchdog program electrifying the
hull and pointing it's laser at me. It's in a pressurized bay with (theoretically)
nobody on board (the pilot was killed earlier).  I'd like to salvage it so blowing
it up isn't too productive.

So again, I ask, what would happen if your radiators stopped working? How long
would it take? Would the computer "normally" power down the system or just let the
whole thing blow?  If it did blow what would be the effects (in a pressurized bay)?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:55:20 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

Here's a sneaky idea to get stubborn Americans to accept Metric:

create a metric Gallon (4 liters), and a metric Foot (a decimeter). When I was
in grade school the lack of these two measurements irritated me, and turned me
off a little to metric.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:27:00 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: And here he comes....

... coming to crash a party near you!

Now, who want's to be the first to greet
Prince Lucan when he arrives at your world?

And how much money need's to be spend on 
entertaining the most wealthiest spoiled
brat in the Galaxy?

Alvin Plummer
(Re: latest newsflash fromTNS)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:11:06 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Deckplans

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com>
Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Deckplans


>I've only just roughed out the shape for a 100 ton scout. I'm going to
>use a roughly conical hull (the point gets rounded off a lot). not
>counting things like landing gear, it'll be 20 meters in diameter and
>13 meters tall (actually it'll be several meters shorter due to the
>rounding of the nose). So I figure that there are three decks.
>
>The lowest deck has the engineering spaces in the center, and the
>highest deck is the control room. Cargo, such as it is will go into the
>lowest deck, and quarters should go on the middle deck. I can't be more
>definite until I get the volume requirements for various things.


My prelimanary work seems to indecate that Perp decks are better suite to
LARGE ships (as was discussed in this thread earlier). On a 2-400 sdt
freighter to keep it anythisng other than a flat box (not very stream lined
if flown as a true perp decked ship) then there must be several decks or one
large TALL cargo bay. Either way it seems very awkward to load without major
in-ship handling equipment.

As I meMike Peters
Letterworks@CITNET.com
"Help Wanted: Telepath, You know where to apply!"  unknown, bumper
sticker.ntioned on the Deckplan list.. one answer is a ship designed to
travel with decks parallel in atmosphere and perp in space (a design I'm
working on, basically using contra-grav for in atmos flight, with thruster
plates on the belly, has the advantage of more speed in space with less
compensators... a marginal savings in space/mass at best). Another Idea
occured that I'm kicking around. If the ship was designed to land in water,
with the cargo doors high on the hull and the cargo lowered into it (much
like surface ships do today) it could work, as long as the cargo master
packed the hold in an "unloading order", doesn't say much for handling fees
though, since the hold would have to be re-packed at every stop.

Of course all of this is refering to containerized cargo. Loose cargo MIGHT
be easier to shift around but I doubt it. Large warehouse style floor spaces
seem to be the real answer or, as I usually design, multiple long bays
approx one or two container lengths (4 , 1.5 m, squares deep) deep along the
ship's sides. This allows access to the to the containers by vehicles or
cranes at the ports without much inship movement.

Be interested in seeing other peoples answers to these problems, however,
there is probably something I'm not seeing.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:34:34 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: The TL 8 freighter challenge (longish)

The initial conditions of the challenge were :-
20 displacement tons, 20 passengers/crew to Jupiter (or thereabouts) in
two years for
less than 3000MCr.

Here goes :-
TL 8 Interplanetary vehicle

Hull : 3000 displacement tons short cylinder, streamlined.
Length : 61.63m             Diameter : 30.60m           Area : 6719.45m2

Material : composite laminate-8, 3cm thick. Structure : 6G rated comp.
lam.-8
Volume : 228.40m3     Weight : 1827.18 tons   Cost : 1.82718 MCr

Power : Fission reactor, 22MW rated X 2 (TL 8)
Volume : 44m3             Weight : 264 tons         Cost : 4.4 MCr
Radiators : 440m2
Fuel : 270kg uranium per MW-yr (see notes below)
X 2.25 (thermionic converter efficiency 40%)
X 1.05 (uranium carbide -> density = 10kg/L)
Volume : 4.68m3          Weight : 46.86 tons         Cost : 0.35145MCr
- - one year's supply for both reactors and a backup year's supply for one
plant.

Drives : Ion drive-8 (after posting by Bruce Macintosh, Traveller Tech
List) :-
Thrust : 0.033 kN/m3, Isp 1.25 million seconds, efficiency 40% (requires
2.2 kW/kN thrust),
other values as per FF&S.
Volume : 30000m3        Weight : 30000 tons       Cost : 1200MCr
Power : 2178kW
Fuel : liquid xenon, requires 190.08L or 285.12kg per hour (density
1.5kg/L)
5000 hours supplied : 950.4m3  or 1425.6 tons     Cost : 95040 Cr

Controls, Computer, Commo, Sensors
TL 8 computer X 3 : CM 0.7, fibre optic.
Bridge workstation X 4 : enhanced electronic -8
Crew station X 10 : enhanced electronic -8
Scanner 13.5 -8
Radio communicator (1000AU range) X 2
Crew : Pilot 1, Navigator/Sensors 1, Engineering 3, Maintenance 2,
Flight Crew 2,
Command 1, Steward/Medical 1.
Volume : 296.36    Weight : 171.92    Power : 1.5824    Cost :
160.7011   Area : 40

Facilities : spinning habitat area.
Large stateroom X 10
Fresher X 5
Life support IV (extended), 14000m3 supported
Life support Va, rated for 25 persons : algae tanks, hydro garden.
Food (60 person-years, good quality) in TL 8 storage
Galley
Gym X 2
Lab
Sickbay
Machine Shop
Reprocessing lab for reactor fuel (equal specs to ordinary lab)
Cargo hold : 20 displacement tons, rated to 2800 tons loaded.
cargo hatch (20m2)
TL 8 lifter (one ton)
2 subsidiary vehicles (100 displacement tons - see below), docking ring
X 2
Airlock + decon chamber X 4
Volume : 7706.684   Weight : 4347.95   Power : 17.824    Cost :
177.0257    Area : 20

Evaluation :
Volume : 39231 m3   Weight : 38084 tons  Power used : 21.6 MW  Cost :
1545 MCr
Acceleration : thrust / loaded weight  = 990kN / 38084 tons = 0.026m/s^2

4 free large staterooms... passengers??!

Notes :-
i. Lander craft
Hull : 100 displacement ton streamlined medium cylinder
Length : 27.8m    Diameter : 8.2m
Composite Laminate-8, 3cm ; 6G rated structure

Power/Drives : Advanced NTR-8, thrust 120kN/m3 (5 installed), Isp 1200
Power output = (0.01 X thrust/kN) = 6 MW
Fuel : LH2, 980m3. Endurance 23 minutes

Controls, etc.
Computer-8 X3 (CM 1.0), fibre optic
TL 8 avionics and navigation
Scanner13 -8
Radio communicator 500000km X 1 ; 1000 AU X 1
Bridge workstation X 2 (enhanced electronic -8)
Small stateroom X 1
Life support IV (extended), 1400m3 rated
20 displacement ton cargo hold, cargo hatch
Airlock + decontamination add-on X 2

Volume : 1400m3   Weight : 303.214 tons   MCr 78.0257
Accleration : thrust / loaded weight = 600kN / 303.214 tons = 1.98m/s^2
(no cargo) ; fully loaded acceleration = 0.19 m/s^2

Orbit to surface vehicle : mission profile is to land unpowered and then
return to orbit.
This vehicle lacks the delta-V (3078m/s) to reach escape velocity from a
body much larger than Luna.

ii. Fission power.
The FF&S rules are broken regarding fuel consumption. Increased energy
density is an
acceptable compromise re tech level improvement.
I have selected the value of 270kg uranium per MWe per year after
referring to a textbook of nuclear engineering. [With breeder reactors
and tightly closed fuel cycles, the amount required to refuel drops to
about 3kg / MWe / yr ; U-Pu recycling (using 'spent' fuel) halves the
new uranium requirement].
It assumes an installation with conventional heat exchangers eg. steam
or gas or molten sodium driven. Efficiency of these heat exchangers is
rated at about 90% (!).
Therefore, there is a multiplier for thermionic (direct electric power
generation) reactors, as they're aren't as efficient.

Tech Level          Thermionic Efficiency      Fuel Consumption X
6                         10%                                9
7                         20%                                4.5
8                         40%                                2.25
9                         60%                                1.5
10                       90%                                1
(thermionic fusion plants are introduced at TL 10)

Fuel : elemental uranium has a density of 20 t/m3, but tends to expand
in the reactor.
I prefer to use salts IMTU (carbide or nitride) as this problem is
avoided.
Mass is increased by 1.05 (UC) or 1.12 (UN2) ; volume is 10t/m3

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:07:17 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: RE: Burning Question

On 14 September 1998 15:37:21 EDT, TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
> 
<Snip>
> 
> I saw nothing indicating the "wreckage" of the Regency and RC.  Indeed
> there's
> a "flowering" of psionics of some kind (and a resultant change of
culture),
> but we were told about a "future project" that would be about a time
when the
> effects of the Wave were finally going away (and sophonts were still
> wondering
> just what the Wave was, and what caused it).  It was an answer that
indicated
> the Wave was meant to be mysterious and would stay that way through
thousands
> of years.
>
Well, it WAS quite a while back, and such a LOT has happened in that
time...

I think the RCES archives are on the HIWG CD, so I'll check when I get
home tonight.
> 
> > Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.
> 
> mmm... Not to me.  Maybe you brought out of it what you brought in?
YMMV.
> 
Not impossible. I wasn't overly impressed by everything from Hard Times
onward - it seemed to me like GDW had too much info left over from TW2Ks
Howling Wilderness, and didn't want to waste it. So I might have been
predisposed to assume that the EQ would have brought the same kind of
disruption to the ex-imperium that it did to the Zhos.

Andy
================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:24:05 -0400
From: Charlie Moore <brrecluse@ibm.net>
Subject: Policy Question?

 I work at one of those "flgs" so I wonder what is the policy about business over the list. I am not interested in some big money things, but more as a service for folks who are having problems with access to stuff they want. I hope someone can fill me in before I jump.        Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:27:58 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Pocket Empires

I get the impression that nobody is playing PE. Is this the case?  If it is
not let me know.  I am trying to put together a consolidated errata for
that product.  I have some suggested fixes, and would like input from
others.  Perhaps then it can be made available to those whpo are
interested.  Any thoughts let me know.

				Colin

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #818
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 15 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 819



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Bruce Johnson/TNE list/HIWG CD/Search software
JTAS 22
Re: FFs1, FFS2, and Andy
Re: MT Starship spreadsheet
Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
Re: Technology
Re : FF&S 1 or 2 (?guns, guns, guns??)
Re: T4: Native career
Re: Bruce Johnson/TNE list/HIWG CD/Search software 
Virus LIVES
Re : Radiators and Reactors 
Re: OpenDoc lives! (sort of) was: RE (I hate microsoft) [LONG]
Iron Duke class SoL
Jump space entry requirments
Re: The TL 8 freighter challenge (longish)
Re: Re : Radiators and Reactors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:35:19 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Bruce Johnson/TNE list/HIWG CD/Search software

Bruce (and other CD users),

	Look on the CD, you should have the TNE list archives with Dave's
letter/notes on the future of TNE.
	It's also got some other stuff you were looking for. Admittedly there's
almost too much info.
	If you can I'd recommend going to the Alta Vista web site and downloading
their personal search engine for use on the CD (presuming you can use Windows
95, maybe 3.1). Unluckily that's one of the things I can't include on the CD
that I'd love too.
	ZDnet had a good search program too (at least it appeared that way, unluckily
I couldn't download it because of some problem between them and AOL).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:35:27 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: JTAS 22

In JTAS 22 there is an article on nuclear weapons, unfortunately one of the
tables it refers to is missing.  Can anybody send me a copy of the missing
table?  I am missing JTAS 23 so if it was published in that  I do not know.

			cheers,
				Colin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:42:16 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: FFs1, FFS2, and Andy

Good idea
>
>If the systems are compatible, then if someone could write a supplement to
>FFS2 that rates ships in the TNE (FFS1) style Andy could upgrade his
>spreadsheet to produce Brilliant Lances-style control sheets, for those of
>us who love that game.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 00:42:18 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: MT Starship spreadsheet

On 09/14/98 at 03:16 PM,  "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> said:

>>Greetings,
>>
>>     I am wondering if anyone has, or knows where to find, a MT ship design
>>spreadsheet?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>DustyLV769@aol.com

>Several actually.

>I'll send a copy of mine to Dusty under seperate cover.  I'll let
>others reply with theirs as they wish.

>A bunch of these were collected on the HIWG-CD, by the way.

>Mine is Excel 5.0 compatible.  Other requests welcome.

Pete, would you send me a copy.  And do you know where I can find the most
complete errata list for MT?

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:54:30 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

Many thanks to all of you.
The harsh light of true knowledge is slowly  dawning on me.  Vostock 327
model bis is preparing for launch!

on another note :)

Suppose a world in TL 6-8 wishes to build PDM for its pown protection.
What warheads can it use.  Suposing that only nuclear weapons are
practicable, and it wants to get them into an adjacent BL/BR hex.  I
suggest some sort of MIV warhead designed to bracket the offending
starship.  This would be somwhat like a limbo ASW mortar (3 barreled
weapon) using the biggest nukes it could get there.  (Maybe 50+ megatons)
each boosted into an appropriate pattern coupled to a ground based or
terminal guidance package.  What do people think?

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:39:14 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: Technology

Personally, I'd hide under the table until all the bad people went 
away!
Rob (the gm) :><

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:00:15 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : FF&S 1 or 2 (?guns, guns, guns??)

Bruce Johnson wrote :-


> Neither can accurately recreate my Smith and Wesson .38 revolver to
> real-world stats, though FFS2 comes closer.
>

Pretty close, actually.
.38 ammo = 9 X 29mm, 300J (factory load) : ca. 17g per round.
Barrel = rifled : 5, 10 or 15cm (2/4/6 inches) - 100/200/300g
Receiver = double action revolver-4
Receiver length = 0.55 X sqrt (300) = 9.5cm, mass 0.375kg (light).
Pistol grip 0.2kg (!)
Overall length : pretty close, if you include grip length in receiver
length.
Overall weight : pretty close - if you ignore the grip mass. Dead on if
you divide grip mass by 3 (I'm comparing with S&W Model 60 - 2" barrel).

FF&S (2) falls down with box magazines.
The example pistol (supposed to be modelled on the .45 ACP) is just
under a foot long, about three inches longer than the real thing -
harder to conceal!.

Actions :-
- - divide pistol grip masses by 3.
- - maximum receiver length is quadruple cartridge length for all weapons.
No increase in length for box (or other) magazines.
- - minimum receiver length is based on the FF&S formula using the
following fudge factors:-

receiver length = tech mod X sqrt(kinetic energy)
TL       mod
4-5       0.45
6-7       0.40
8-9       0.35
10+      0.30

These little fixes seem to cover most of the weapon types seen in a
'Guns and Ammo' annual, say.

FF&S needs fixing : but there's a number of things in Traveller that
need buffing up. It's still the best science fiction RPG around, though.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:25:26 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: T4: Native career

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, steve daniels wrote:

> a rough bunch.  Routine tasks: Hunting, fighting, surviving in the wilderness,
> fail to understand technological items."), it sounds like you mean
> hunter-gatherer types.
> 
> If that is what you mean, I would take out Broker, Medical, and maybe
> Melee Combat (since that is fighting with rules), and add some of the
> Charisma skills.

I mean any tribal culture, up to and including the barbarian types on a
medieval world. Broker is used for bartering, Melee combat is described as
armed melee using other weapons than blades (ie clubs, axes etc). Medical
is included to represent herbal cures and such.

> But when you get to the Medieval period, society gets much more complex
> and divided, so a whole host of skills become available, and the idea of
> careers starts with everything from Priests to Paupers.

Yes, that should also be done. The 'Native' career was created for a
character one of my players created just yesterday.

> Hmm.  I'm getting an idea here.
> Reworking the careers for TL 1 - 4.
> 
> Merchants, Mercenaries,
> Nobles, Knaves
> Sailors, Soldiers, Serfs, Scholars,
> Priests, Paupers, Pirates
> Bards, Rogues

I will be looking at these types of careers as well as creating a few more
modern careers that I feel are missing, like Miner.

Do I break any laws if I place careers from the rulebook on the web? If I
make changes to them and place them there?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 04:23:26 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Bruce Johnson/TNE list/HIWG CD/Search software 

> 	Look on the CD, you should have the TNE list archives with Dave's
> letter/notes on the future of TNE.
> 	It's also got some other stuff you were looking for. Admittedly there's
> almost too much info.
> 	If you can I'd recommend going to the Alta Vista web site and downloading
> their personal search engine for use on the CD (presuming you can use Windows
> 95, maybe 3.1). Unluckily that's one of the things I can't include on the CD
> that I'd love too.
> 	ZDnet had a good search program too (at least it appeared that way, unluckily
> I couldn't download it because of some problem between them and AOL).

Suggestion:

You can't put the *software* on the disc.  But there's *nothing* stopping you
putting together a quick & dirty HTML page with links *TO* the software sites
on the disc.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:42:46 -0700
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Virus LIVES

So I was reading the most recent TNS post on the G:T website, and it hit
me like a dark epiphany:

So far, Dulinor's unfortunate "accident" is the sole point of divergence.
Which means that somewhere out there, an Imperial Research Station is
still hard at work on the ancestors of everyone's favorite quasi-plausible
superweapon.

Mind you, without a Rebellion or Lucan the Psycho on the Iridium Throne,
there won't be quite the same pressure to develop an actual Virus, let
alone release it without adequate safeguards...

But it's still out there.

Be afraid.


- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:17:02 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Radiators and Reactors 

Joe Pettit wrote :-

> No, actually, I've got a pesky scout ship with a watchdog program electrifying the
> hull and pointing it's laser at me. It's in a pressurized bay with (theoretically)
> nobody on board (the pilot was killed earlier).  I'd like to salvage it so blowing
> it up isn't too productive.
>
> So again, I ask, what would happen if your radiators stopped working? How long
> would it take? Would the computer "normally" power down the system or just let the
> whole thing blow?  If it did blow what would be the effects (in a pressurized bay)?
>
Firstly, commiserations.
Analysis time :-

Traveller power plants are about 1.5% efficient (fusion) as written.
This means that 66.67 X the power output is being bled out through the
radiators, assuming perfect radiator efficiency. Actually, most of it
leaves via designated radiator area, the rest (10%) through the rest of
the hull.
For a type S scout :- roughly 28m3 plant from TL 9-12, which is 56MW.
Heat loss = 3733 MW (!) - nearly 12MW per square metre of surface area,
assuming typical wedge configuration.

Stephan-Boltzmann equation :
radiation intensity = emissivity X sigma X (temperature)^4
watts per m2 varies with fourth power of absolute temperature (Kelvin)
sigma = 5.67 X 10^(-8) W/m^2/K^4
emissivity = 0 to 1 (perfect black body radiator) : varies with object.
Let's try 0.5

Heat loss, W/m2           surface temperature (Kelvin)
6 million                       3814 - 3541 Celsius. Very few things are
solid at this temp.
3 million                       3207 - 2934. Ditto
1.5 million                    2697 - 2424. Steel is molten.
Etc.

The bay's structure had better be over-engineered (increased pressure
from the rapidly heated air within). An explosion would be disastrous.
Your suit's cooling systems have to be up to scratch too - the area is
hotter than a steelworks and a lot less friendly.
Ultimately the waste heat would melt the hull of the ship and the walls
of the bay.
The superheated air would cause most familiar objects to burst into
flame.
Long before that, though the immediate vicinity would not be readily
habitable.

If the (Virus-ridden) ship has intact sensors and isn't suicidal, it
will eventually shut down.
The ultimate limit is the hull's melting point....
Ordinarily, the ship's computer would be 'watching' the temperature,
etc. really closely.

This is a little extreme, I must admit.
The ship is on its landing legs with only enough power plant ticking
over to run the electric field, the laser, computer, and sensors, I
would suspect.
You would have a long time to wait blocking the radiators.
Guesstimate the likely heat emitted with the data above.

My plan :-
Blind it, pull its teeth, and ground the hull to the body of the
surrounding ship.
Hope your suit's insulated....

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:57:30 +1100
From: Morgan <jasper@uq.net.au>
Subject: Re: OpenDoc lives! (sort of) was: RE (I hate microsoft) [LONG]

Nah, I believe that Galactix, an open source system which traces it's
roots back to some obscure Terran system will be the OS of choice in the
3I.

Morgan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:47:32 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Iron Duke class SoL

After going back and redoing all of my designs to take 
into account the lastest errata for FFS I found that a 
number of ships had to change a little. Since the Iron 
Duke is one of my favourite designs (even with all its 
failings) and it mounts a weapon that even the infamous 
Famile Spofulam would not look at unfavourably, I take 
great pleasure in presenting.......

Agamemnon, Iron Duke class Ship of the Line (FF&S v2)
Designed by Andrew Moffatt-Vallance

Statistics 
 Tons: 30000 Td (SL Wedge Hypersonic)
 Crew: 556/750
 Cargo: 70 Td (1 x Large Cargo Hatch, Handling: 2 x 350 
ton)
 Volume: 420000m3
 Passengers High/Med: 6/24
 Cost: 48286.97 MCr
 Mass (L/C): 627293t/620017t
 Passengers Low: 0
 Maintenance Points: 22144
 Dimensions: 234.1m x 160.7m x 66.9m
 Troops/Science: 0/0
 Tech Level: 11
 Size: 10
 Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics 
 Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 16 x FibComp
           (CM: 0.4 CP: 2.5). Bridge.
 Communications: 1 x Dir Radio (1,000AU, 0.2MW).
                 2 x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW).
 Sensors: 1 x PEMS (13.5 [16mkm], 0.02MW).
          1 x AEMS (12 [1.6mkm], 50MW).
          2 x LIDAR (15 [2mkm], 3.3MW).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 1 x Radio Jammer (1,000AU, 0.4MW).
      1 x Area. Jammer (12, 3125MW).
      1 x Decp. Jammer (13, 62.5MW).
      1 x Pas. Jammer (15, 2.5MW).
 Signatures: Vis:0, IR:0.5 (0.5 at 57745MW, 0 at
             7915MW), Act:0, Neu:1, Grav:2

Weaponry 
 24 x Heavy Laser Turret (+3) 1/2-0-0-0 [2,800/15-8-4-2] 
(LR)
 6 x Light Laser Bay (+3) 1/10-10-9-6 [8,200/46-46-35-
18] (LR)
 4 x Missile Bay Auto 16/16 (Mag: 176 MFD: 500,000km)
       w/192 Cmd DL 1d6/3 [113] 9.2G/10 500,000km
 1 x Heavy Spinal PA (+3) 2/13-13-13-13 [1,50/1438-1438-
1438-1438] (LR)

Performance 
 2 Jump (3000 Td/pc fuel)
 3/3 Manoeuvre (Thruster: 46305MW)
 1/1 Contra-grav (8350MW)
 3941kph/3960kph Atmosphere (Cruise: 2956kph/2970kph)
 5 Power (Fusion: 79148MW, 0.25yr)
 0 Battery
 6212 Fuel (Scoop: 5, Purif: 72, 51MW)
 0/755/25/0/0 Accommodations (800 x Sanitary Fittings)
 10400 Person/Weeks Life Support (Type: Extended, Normal 
Food [Stored])
 2 G-Comp
 0 ESA
 10 Sandcasters (AV: 294 Cans: 18)
 0 Damper Turrets
 0 Damper Screen
 0 Meson Screen
 0 Force Field
 0 Gravtics
 80 [432] Armour, 49 Structure

Features 
 260 x Airlock 
 40 x Decontamination Airlock 
 4 x Docking Umbilical 
 3 x Electronic Shop (6 Td ea.) 
 3 x Machine Shop (10 Td ea.) 
 6 x Sickbay (8 Td ea.) 
 1 x Ship's locker (15 Td ea.) 
 20 x Prisoner Capacity (0/15/5) 
 1 x Armoury (1.07 Td ea.) 
 4 x Gym (2.5 Td ea.) 
 1 x Ordinary Galley (Cap: 20) 
 4 x Full Galley (Cap: 200) 

Small Craft 
 1 x Spacious Hanger (100 Td, 2 hatches) 

Backups 
 Drives:
 Screens:
 Communications: 2 x Dir Radio (1,000AU).
                 4 x Laser (1,000AU).
 Sensors: 5 x PEMS (13.5 [16mkm]).
          3 x AEMS (12 [1.6mkm]).
          10 x LIDAR (15 [2mkm]).
 Survey/Science:
 ECM: 2 x Pas. Jammer (15).
 Power & Fuel:

Crew Details 
 8 x Helm
 384 x Engineering
 62 x Maintenance
 122 x Gunnery
 10 x Screens
 30 x Troops
 102 x Command.
 26 x Stewards
 6 x Medical

The Iron Duke Class were one of the earilest examples of
the classic Terran Ship of the Line (the first to be 
fitted with thrust plates) and even though it was a 
rapidly outclassed in terms of both size and power, the 
class exhibited most of the common features of the type; 
the large (41,000 Mj in this case) spinal particle 
accelerator, wedge hull form, extreme automation
to reduce the crew requirements, extensive backup 
electronics and a heavy point defence laser battery. The 
Iron Dukes were designed shortly before the start of the 
2nd Interstellar War and formed the backbone of the 
Terran fleet during the 2nd War and early 3rd War. In 
total 185 examples of the class were built, and though 
the class suffered heavily with the wholesale scrappings
that followed the 3rd War, some examples survived in 
auxilary roles for many years. The longest serving was 
the Hiei which survived as a guardship at Hades until 
2402 AD.

The most famous example of the class was the Agamemnon 
on which the mysterious Lord Nelson incident occured. 
The Agamemnon was a reserve squadron flagship during the 
critical Battle of Junction in 2152 AD. During the battle
the Vilani broke through the Terran line and attacked 
the reserve; and the Agamemnon was struck by a spread of 
Vilani missiles which damaged the ship's control systems 
and killed or injured most of the bridge crew. At this 
point the "ghost" of Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson (1758 
AD - 1805 AD) "appeared" on the ship's bridge. He 
exhorted the crew to attack the Vilani centre. Against
all naval doctrine of the time, the senior surviving 
officer (Leftenant Pi Yu) choose to follow this course 
of action. The result was that against all expectations 
the reserve smashed the Vilani breakthrough and turned 
the tide of the battle in the Terrans favour.

The incident has thus far defied explaination. The 
ship's internal bridge sensors were offline due to 
battle damage at the time, so no accurate independent 
record exists, but the incident was confirmed after the 
battle by the Agamemnon's surviving bridge crew (some 17 
individuals). It is known that immediately prior to the 
incident the ship's jump grid had accidentally 
discharged due to the damage sustained. The most 
commonly accepted explaination is a mass hystereical 
delusion brought on by combat stress and the jump grid 
discharge; however the incident still remains a 
tantalising mystery and is the subject of much popular 
debate.

The Agamemnon herself suffered severe damage during the 
battle, and though she was repaired, she was never again 
employed in frontline serivce. She served as a convoy 
escort until the end of the 3rd War and was then assigned
as a colonial guardship at Midway until 2172 AD when she 
was designated as an escort for the long range 
colonisation program. The Agamemnon left for the rim in 
2177 AD and her ultimate fate is unknown.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:02 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Jump space entry requirments

According to FF&Sv2 there is an energy requirement to enter jumpspace.
What is the formula? (I'm away from my books right now). 



Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:31:53 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challenge (longish)

Robert O'Connor wrote:

> The initial conditions of the challenge were :-
> 20 displacement tons, 20 passengers/crew to Jupiter (or thereabouts) in
> two years for
> less than 3000MCr.

Note that the round trip was 2 years.  Jupiter may or may not be the
midpoint of the trip.

>
>
> Here goes :-
> TL 8 Interplanetary vehicle
>
> Hull : 3000 displacement tons short cylinder, streamlined.
> Length : 61.63m             Diameter : 30.60m           Area : 6719.45m2
>
> Material : composite laminate-8, 3cm thick. Structure : 6G rated comp.
> lam.-8

Why so strong?  It isn't intended for planetfall and it's acceleration never
even approaches 1G.

>
> Volume : 228.40m3     Weight : 1827.18 tons   Cost : 1.82718 MCr
>
> Power : Fission reactor, 22MW rated X 2 (TL 8)
> Volume : 44m3             Weight : 264 tons         Cost : 4.4 MCr
> Radiators : 440m2
> Fuel : 270kg uranium per MW-yr (see notes below)

I was wondering about breeder reactors too.  Another case of real world tech
outdoing Traveller tech.  I saw a show where they actually solved all the
problems but funding was cancelled anyway.  Meltdowns were averted by
allowing the material to expand.  They used various salts to reconstitute
the nuclear waste.  What little waste was left was used medically as
isotopes.

>
> X 2.25 (thermionic converter efficiency 40%)

Can you point me in the direction of some information on this?  It sounds
neat, and the whole fusion powered steam turbine generator seems laughable
at high tech levels.

>
> X 1.05 (uranium carbide -> density = 10kg/L)
> Volume : 4.68m3          Weight : 46.86 tons         Cost : 0.35145MCr
> - one year's supply for both reactors and a backup year's supply for one
> plant.
>
> Drives : Ion drive-8 (after posting by Bruce Macintosh, Traveller Tech
> List) :-
> Thrust : 0.033 kN/m3, Isp 1.25 million seconds, efficiency 40% (requires
> 2.2 kW/kN thrust),
> other values as per FF&S.

This thrust seems different from the stuff listed in my TNE FFS.

>
> Volume : 30000m3        Weight : 30000 tons       Cost : 1200MCr
> Power : 2178kW
> Fuel : liquid xenon, requires 190.08L or 285.12kg per hour (density
> 1.5kg/L)
> 5000 hours supplied : 950.4m3  or 1425.6 tons     Cost : 95040 Cr
>
> Controls, Computer, Commo, Sensors
> TL 8 computer X 3 : CM 0.7, fibre optic.
> Bridge workstation X 4 : enhanced electronic -8
> Crew station X 10 : enhanced electronic -8
> Scanner 13.5 -8
> Radio communicator (1000AU range) X 2
> Crew : Pilot 1, Navigator/Sensors 1, Engineering 3, Maintenance 2,
> Flight Crew 2,
> Command 1, Steward/Medical 1.
> Volume : 296.36    Weight : 171.92    Power : 1.5824    Cost :
> 160.7011   Area : 40
>
> Facilities : spinning habitat area.
> Large stateroom X 10
> Fresher X 5
> Life support IV (extended), 14000m3 supported
> Life support Va, rated for 25 persons : algae tanks, hydro garden.
> Food (60 person-years, good quality) in TL 8 storage
> Galley

Life support... Are these T4 specs?  I feel so out of the loop.  How much
does 60 Person-years of food weigh?  I was going for completely recycling
the habitat so that it could be left at Jupiter as a colony base thing.

>
> Gym X 2
> Lab
> Sickbay
> Machine Shop
> Reprocessing lab for reactor fuel (equal specs to ordinary lab)
> Cargo hold : 20 displacement tons, rated to 2800 tons loaded.

Heh... when you concider the size of the habitat ring, this cargo hold is a
joke. I was under the impression that the hold was for bringing back Jupiter
cargo.

>
> cargo hatch (20m2)
> TL 8 lifter (one ton)
> 2 subsidiary vehicles (100 displacement tons - see below), docking ring
> X 2
> Airlock + decon chamber X 4
> Volume : 7706.684   Weight : 4347.95   Power : 17.824    Cost :
> 177.0257    Area : 20
>
> Evaluation :
> Volume : 39231 m3   Weight : 38084 tons  Power used : 21.6 MW  Cost :
> 1545 MCr
> Acceleration : thrust / loaded weight  = 990kN / 38084 tons = 0.026m/s^2

Now the big question.  How did you deal with the orbital mechanics (matching
orbit speeds)?  What does the course look like?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:05:08 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Re : Radiators and Reactors

Robert O'Connor wrote:

> Joe Pettit wrote :-
>
> > No, actually, I've got a pesky scout ship with a watchdog program electrifying the
> > hull and pointing it's laser at me. It's in a pressurized bay with (theoretically)
> > nobody on board (the pilot was killed earlier).  I'd like to salvage it so blowing
> > it up isn't too productive.
> >
> > So again, I ask, what would happen if your radiators stopped working? How long
> > would it take? Would the computer "normally" power down the system or just let the
> > whole thing blow?  If it did blow what would be the effects (in a pressurized bay)?
> >
> Firstly, commiserations.
> Analysis time :-
>
> Traveller power plants are about 1.5% efficient (fusion) as written.
> This means that 66.67 X the power output is being bled out through the
> radiators, assuming perfect radiator efficiency. Actually, most of it
> leaves via designated radiator area, the rest (10%) through the rest of
> the hull.
> For a type S scout :- roughly 28m3 plant from TL 9-12, which is 56MW.
> Heat loss = 3733 MW (!) - nearly 12MW per square metre of surface area,
> assuming typical wedge configuration.
>

Note that a ship produces this much heat regardless of whether the radiators are blocked
or not.  The radiators just gives the heat a more direct way out into the bay (or
space).  Since the bay is cabable of sustaining the ship as it is indefinitely, the bay
is therefore able to deal with that much heat be it from the radiators or the whole
hull.  Gumming up the radiators will force the heat to travel through the ship
(engineering) before reaching the bay.

>
> Stephan-Boltzmann equation :
> radiation intensity = emissivity X sigma X (temperature)^4
> watts per m2 varies with fourth power of absolute temperature (Kelvin)
> sigma = 5.67 X 10^(-8) W/m^2/K^4
> emissivity = 0 to 1 (perfect black body radiator) : varies with object.
> Let's try 0.5
>

Well, its dumping into air at room temperature.

>
> Heat loss, W/m2           surface temperature (Kelvin)
> 6 million                       3814 - 3541 Celsius. Very few things are
> solid at this temp.
> 3 million                       3207 - 2934. Ditto
> 1.5 million                    2697 - 2424. Steel is molten.
> Etc.
>
> The bay's structure had better be over-engineered (increased pressure
> from the rapidly heated air within).

Like I said, the heat is going to reach the air in any case.  Since the bay hasn't blown
up yet, we can assume it can take it.  Maybe not a ship melting through the deck, but
pressure increased heated air won't be the problem.

> An explosion would be disastrous.
> Your suit's cooling systems have to be up to scratch too - the area is
> hotter than a steelworks and a lot less friendly.
> Ultimately the waste heat would melt the hull of the ship and the walls
> of the bay.

At what point would the generator blow?  Once it stops producing power (because its blown
into tiny scraps) the reactor would lose containment and if I'm to believe the scuttlebut
on the list, a fusion reaction can't be maintained without pressure.  Probably resulting
in a relatively minor explosion as the reactor fuel combines with the air onboard.
Methinks it would be best to depressurize the bay before pulling this stunt or the liquid
hydrogen in the tanks could touch off.

>
> The superheated air would cause most familiar objects to burst into
> flame.
> Long before that, though the immediate vicinity would not be readily
> habitable.

Well, I suppose we could continue on our cruise.  I had intended to return to this base
after the next stop...  That should give the ship some time to die.

>
>
> If the (Virus-ridden) ship has intact sensors and isn't suicidal, it
> will eventually shut down.

What would be reasonable points to shut down?  Inhospitable temperatures for humans?
Inhospitable temperatures for computers?  Physical breakdown of power plant?

>
> The ultimate limit is the hull's melting point....
> Ordinarily, the ship's computer would be 'watching' the temperature,
> etc. really closely.
>
> This is a little extreme, I must admit.
> The ship is on its landing legs with only enough power plant ticking
> over to run the electric field, the laser, computer, and sensors, I
> would suspect.
> You would have a long time to wait blocking the radiators.

I figured it would take a while.  I intended to throw a grounding strap across the hull
to force it to produce more power.  Maybe I can sell the power to the locals...

>
> Guesstimate the likely heat emitted with the data above.
>
> My plan :-
> Blind it, pull its teeth, and ground the hull to the body of the
> surrounding ship.

Actually, that was the first plan.  I was thinking about constructing a sort of Farraday
shell and attaching it to the hull away from the laser.  In theory (could be completely
mistaken) the electricity would flow on the outside of the shell leaving the interior
relatively safe to cut into with torches.  Plus the electrical field would shield the
workers from the sensors.  Kinda like a leach with its numbing saliva.  The radiator deal
is more like an infection.

>
> Hope your suit's insulated....

Of course...

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #819
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 15 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 820



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Brothers under the skin? I think not!
Re: Pocket Empires
Re: T4: Native career
Re:Virus LIVES
Re: T4: Native career
[none]
T5 skills (was re: T4: Native Careers...)
[none]
Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re: Pocket Empires
Re: Re : FF&S 1 or 2 (?guns, guns, guns??)
[none]
Re: Technology
Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re : Radiators and Reactors 
Re: Pocket Empires
Re: MT Starship spreadsheet
Re: Re : FF&S 1 or 2 (?guns, guns, guns??)
Re: MT Starship spreadsheet
Re: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #818
Re: JTAS 22
Re: T5 skills (was re: T4: Native Careers...)
SSDS questions (T4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:24:59 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Brothers under the skin? I think not!

Leo Hale writes:
>      Everyone seems to have some comment on the Vargar and K'ree (?)

Vargr and K'kree.

>sitting together in a bar.  Most of the comments have ranged that this bar
>must serve either meat or veggies.  I don't know about all of you, but the
>last bar I was in served alcohol.  Now we all know that the Vargar will
>drink anything that doesn't run from 'em, and the K'ree(?) seem just a
>little on the teetotaller(?) side for me.  But we must remember that most
>good alcohol is made from the K'ree's(?) main dietary supplement, veggies.

That's not the problem I have with the picture. My problem is that most
K'Kree gets seriously annoyed when breathing the same air as meateaters.
This includes omnivores who have eaten meat within the last week. So for
a K'Kree to calmly enjoy a few brewskies while seated in the same room as
a bunch of meat-eaters, you need a seriously atypical K'Kree.

Of course, there's nothing to say you can't have a seriously atypical
K'Kree. As long as he keeps away from all normal K'Kree, that is...

(Or perhaps it is the carnivores in the picture that are seriously atypical.
Perhaps every patron in the bar is a vegetarian).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:59:59 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

> I get the impression that nobody is playing PE. Is this the case?  If it
is
> not let me know.  I am trying to put together a consolidated errata for
> that product.  I have some suggested fixes, and would like input from
> others.  Perhaps then it can be made available to those whpo are
> interested.  Any thoughts let me know.

Well, my gaming group is...  So I would like to see what you come up
with...

> 				Colin

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: T4: Native career

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, steve daniels wrote:
> 
> I like it and its certainly welcome.  But I'm not sure I follow your meaning
> of "Native."
[snip]
> 
> If that is what you mean, I would take out Broker, Medical, and maybe
> Melee Combat (since that is fighting with rules), and add some of the
> Charisma skills.

Broker is as applicable to trading chickens for grain as it is for trading
starship parts for credits. It's just the art of getting a good deal.

Melee Combat is the skill of fighting with spears, clubs, and other
non-sword weapons. Certainly available at TL 0 and 1. There is nothing in
the description about 'fighting with rules'. What kind of rules were you
considering?

I can't imagine why you would recomend removing the Charisma skills.
People at TL 0 and 1 have to deal with each other just as any other
society. Actually there aren't any Charisma skills (in the T4 sense) on
the list anyway.

Could you elaborate on why you made these comments? I'm interested in your
take on this.

Ben


- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:10:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re:Virus LIVES

>Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:42:46 -0700
>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>Subject: Virus LIVES

>So I was reading the most recent TNS post on the G:T website, and it hit
>me like a dark epiphany:

>So far, Dulinor's unfortunate "accident" is the sole point of divergence.
>Which means that somewhere out there, an Imperial Research Station is
>still hard at work on the ancestors of everyone's favorite
quasi-plausible
>superweapon.

>Mind you, without a Rebellion or Lucan the Psycho on the Iridium Throne,
>there won't be quite the same pressure to develop an actual Virus, let
>alone release it without adequate safeguards...

>But it's still out there.

>Be afraid.

I'm more afraid of this:

There is nothing in the G:T TNS that says there is not a Project Longbow,
as a matter of fact the thing is Pre-1116.  If so, does that mean that
Strephon has made contact with the "Empress"?

If so, then we shall meet the Wave in 100 yrs or so.  And we KNOW what
happens to the Zhodani!
In the G:T timline there may still be an Imperium by 1205.  Imagine what
could happen in the Marches by that time.  Will we take over some Zho
space?  Will they invade the Marches? (CRAZY Zho psion commandoes?)  Will
there be a very nasty 6th FW?  Who knows...

Be afraid...

Be VERY afraid...


FNORD!

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:44:02 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T4: Native career

Brannon Boren wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, steve daniels wrote:
> >
> > I like it and its certainly welcome.  But I'm not sure I follow your meaning
> > of "Native."
> [snip]
> >
> > If that is what you mean, I would take out Broker, Medical, and maybe
> > Melee Combat (since that is fighting with rules), and add some of the
> > Charisma skills.
>
> Broker is as applicable to trading chickens for grain as it is for trading
> starship parts for credits. It's just the art of getting a good deal.

Well, there is trading and then there is brokering.
T4 Broker: "The know-how to find lower prices when purchasing goods,
then quickly locate buyers for the items at higher prices . . ."

T4 Trader: "The ability to identify the best cargos to carry from one world to
another . . . it improves one's ability to estimate the resale value of items in
the
trade and commerce rules . . ."

If you've got to choose one of these somewhat overlapping skills, I would
choose Trader, but even then I'd probably allow it only as a default skill.
Ideally, I would add a skill "Barter."  But in the interest of keeping the
skill list manageable, I would use Trader as a substitute for Barter.
Besides, IMO, Broker presupposes existing markets and probably
multiple markets and vendors.

Regardless, Spacejens has said that he is using Broker to reflect
bartering, which makes perfect sense with that explanation.

>Melee Combat is the skill of fighting with spears, clubs, and other

> non-sword weapons. Certainly available at TL 0 and 1. There is nothing in
> the description about 'fighting with rules'. What kind of rules were you
> considering?

Whoops.  I was looking at the T4.1 (T5) beta materials (which I like much
better than T4).  In those, Melee is hand-to-hand with rules, essentially.
Boxing, wrestling, and martial arts are given as examples (though I
assume the only the "sport" martial arts like Judo, Karate, and
Tae-Kwon-Do are being referred.to as opposed to the non-sporting forms).
I think that might be a loophole in the T4.1 stuff, i.e., no provision for non-
blade or gun weapon combat.  I'll have to check again.

> I can't imagine why you would recomend removing the Charisma skills.
> People at TL 0 and 1 have to deal with each other just as any other
> society. Actually there aren't any Charisma skills (in the T4 sense) on
> the list anyway.

That was my point.  I recommended _adding_ more of them.
And I'd probably throw in Intimidation as well.

> Could you elaborate on why you made these comments? I'm interested in your
> take on this.

I hope that was satisfactory.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:56:56 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: [none]

Subscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:59:19 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: T5 skills (was re: T4: Native Careers...)

steve daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Whoops.  I was looking at the T4.1 (T5) beta materials (which I like much
better than T4).  In those, Melee is hand-to-hand with rules, essentially.
Boxing, wrestling, and martial arts are given as examples (though I
assume the only the "sport" martial arts like Judo, Karate, and
Tae-Kwon-Do are being referred.to as opposed to the non-sporting forms).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What's wrong with "Brawling" skill for normal hand-to-hand, with combat
capable styles being reflected as higher levels of brawling and
non-combat styles (sport, demonstration, excercise, etc.) being
represented by "special" skills? Special, like Art skills, Hobby skills,
things like that that usually have little effect on the game but add color.

"Melee" I've always associated with armed combat (knights with pointy
things and such) - probably due to my early exposure to TSR's stuff.
Defining Melee skill in T5 as formal unarmed combat techniques
seems confusing to someone like me, when I list Melee skills in my
brain I think Sword, Spear, Club instead of Karate, Jujitsu, Akido.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 04:04:32 +1000
From: "Et Cetera" <antithetica@nemesis.com.au>
Subject: [none]

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:29:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

Joe Pettit writes:
 
> No, actually, I've got a pesky scout ship with a watchdog program
> electrifying the hull and pointing it's laser at me. It's in a pressurized
> bay with (theoretically) nobody on board (the pilot was killed earlier). 
> I'd like to salvage it so blowing it up isn't too productive.

Well, assuming that the watchdog program at least resembles having brains, it
will run the reactor only at sufficient power to account for its required
energy output (which is virtually nil if you aren't actually annoying it).  As
such, it can probably retain its current configuration virtually indefinately. 
However, blowing the radiators off has a reasonable chance to cause the power
plant to shut down (it will probably cause a coolant leak, which will trigger a
shutdown unless the system is designed to ignore heat problems, in which case
it will eventually destroy the power plant).

The effects of the power plant overheating in the bay are relatively minor
compared to the effects of the ship deciding to pop off a few shots with a
starship-grade laser.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:11:08 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

I just started a PBEM campaign with some friends, so I'd be very interested
in the errata and fixes.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 11:01 PM
Subject: Pocket Empires


>I get the impression that nobody is playing PE. Is this the case?  If it is
>not let me know.  I am trying to put together a consolidated errata for
>that product.  I have some suggested fixes, and would like input from
>others.  Perhaps then it can be made available to those whpo are
>interested.  Any thoughts let me know.
>
> Colin
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:30:27 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re : FF&S 1 or 2 (?guns, guns, guns??)

Yeah! Now I can use my S+W model 10 in Traveller.... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:44:39 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe traveller-digest

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:58:19 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Technology

> What would you do if your corporation discovered the secrets of
> Stutterwarp

I would gently point out that in my non-canon Traveller Universe:

1) the Solomani, Kafers and others all invented Stutterwarp 4000 years ago,
2) Stutterwarp (IMTU) has a performance of "jump-1" per month
2a) jump-1 need not be the samee as a parsec IYTU
3) Stutterwarp is great for ore carriers and the like as there is no
   jump fuel to take up space and SW is similar cost to Jump Drives
4) IMTU stutterwarp is one of two "frac c" drives for moving between planets

In your traveller Universe, you appear to have decided that SW has a 
performance advantage over Jump drive.  Is the advantage strategic (faster 
travel between systems), tactical (faster speed ship combat), both or 
something else.  The "best" way forward is always going to be matter of 
opinion, because who knows how the RC, bad guy PE etc will respond.  

1) Why not run a PE campaign in parallel to get a better picture of the 
forces involved in the conflict let players of the various factions decide 
what to do?

2) Keep a lid on it and buy up all the Tantalum mines you can find.  Then 
sell the idea to the Regency.

3) Build a series of SW scout ships that can see squadrons of bad guys jump 
out, calculate where they are going, run ahead of them and broadcast a 
warning to the RC or other defenders.  After a few of these, people will sit 
up and take notice of your superior tech and will be desparate to get hold of 
it.  They may use money or force.  As long as your scouts stay close enough 
to the FTL limit they will never be caught.

4) use 2 and 3.  With the bad guys suffering because of your (relatively 
cheap) scouts giving a huge intelligent edge to the RC they should suffer 
while you negotiate for tantalum mines, salvage rights on damaged bad guy 
ships and so on.

5) Threaten to give the secret of the tech to the opponent of anyone who 
attacks your bases (best combines with 3).


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:19:17 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

>> What would happen if you insulated a ship's radiators
>Assuming your goal is reducing your thermal signature, the only way to do this
>over long periods of time is to reduce your heat production 

The other trick - if you know where your enemy is - is to use only the
radiators on the far side of your hull, so the waste heat goes away from 
them. In most combat situations Traveller ships are implicitly doing
this; more advanced levels of masking do it more effectively (dumping the
heat into narrower cones, etc.) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:24:47 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

>So again, I ask, what would happen if your radiators stopped working?
If the ship has masking it has a lot of redundant radiator capability
(especially on the ground, where it can cool itself through air convection.)
You'd need some serious insulator, too - radiators run at up to 2000 K 
depending on the ship design. As you cover more radiators the ship would
have to reduce power output until it shut down. A sensible ship would do this
automatically; a poorly-designed ship would heat up until circuits 
started failing, including the computer; referees discretion whether the
computer running things like the power plant magnetic confinement would fail,
or the superconducting magnets for said confinement, resulting in a loss
of power plant plasma confinement.

In a "realistic" world, this just shuts down the power plant (possibly 
melting the inside walls a little); in a more cinematic world it might
blow the hwole plant.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:29:52 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re : Radiators and Reactors 

>Traveller power plants are about 1.5% efficient (fusion) as written.
The 1.5% efficiency number presumably comes from assuming all the fuel is 
burned for heat and 1.5% is converted into power. I've always assumed that
the efficiency just means only 1.5% of the hydrogen is properly burned 
(possibly because only the natural deuterium burns, or because its 
inefficient to recycle the hydrogen in partially-burned fuel because it 
contains too much tritium, or because it gets vented to space after running
through an MHD generator, etc.

The radiator sizes in FFS2 assume soemthing closer to 90% efficiency 
(mildly unrealistic, admittedly) for TL12 reactors, which then run their
radiators at 1000 - 2000 K. This makes large ships at least vaguely
plausible - if we use Robert's numbers, which have a normal scout
radiating 4000 MW, big ships are impossible.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:45:22 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

Colin Hutchinson wrote:


>I get the impression that nobody is playing PE. Is this the case?  If
it is
>not let me know.  I am trying to put together a consolidated errata for

>that product.  I have some suggested fixes, and would like input from
>others.  Perhaps then it can be made available to those whpo are
>interested.  Any thoughts let me know.
>
>                                Colin

My pocket empires died due to scheduling conflicts and lack of
enthusiasm due to outside sources (realtime online games mainly), but I
am intending to restart it when scheduling and other sources are under
control.  Please send me any errata available ( or when compiled)

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:27:25 +0200
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: MT Starship spreadsheet

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> I'll send a copy of mine to Dusty under seperate cover.  I'll let others
> reply with theirs as they wish.

Any chance of sending me a copy as well?

> A bunch of these were collected on the HIWG-CD, by the way.

Now this grabbed my attention! Did someone really produce a HIWG CD? If so are
there any copies left or can more copies be made?

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:05:54 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re : FF&S 1 or 2 (?guns, guns, guns??)

At 18:00 15/09/98 +1000, Robert O'Connor wrote:

>FF&S (2) falls down with box magazines.
>The example pistol (supposed to be modelled on the .45 ACP) is just
>under a foot long, about three inches longer than the real thing -
>harder to conceal!.
>
>Actions :-
>- divide pistol grip masses by 3.
>- maximum receiver length is quadruple cartridge length for all weapons.
>No increase in length for box (or other) magazines.
>- minimum receiver length is based on the FF&S formula using the
>following fudge factors:-
>
>receiver length = tech mod X sqrt(kinetic energy)
>TL       mod
>4-5       0.45
>6-7       0.40
>8-9       0.35
>10+      0.30
>
>These little fixes seem to cover most of the weapon types seen in a
>'Guns and Ammo' annual, say.

The biggest inaccuracies in FFS1's small arms sequences are to do with the
receivers. Firstly they get too heavy with high power rounds, especially
for bolt actions, and secondly the minimum length rule (15cm longer than
the cartrige for box mags, etc) is clearly just not realistic (again most
obvious with bolt actions). A more minor issue is that while receiver
weight drops relatively slow by TL (which is reflected in the rules) length
should drop much faster, and in actual fact has more to do with the
designer's fancy than any particular Tl limitations. Many SMGs have
receiver that are only about twice as long as the ammo because most of the
mechanism is alongside the barrel e.g. the Beretta M12.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:58:33 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: MT Starship spreadsheet

At 15:16 14/09/98 -0400, Peter H. Brenton wrote:
>>Greetings,
>>
>>     I am wondering if anyone has, or knows where to find, a MT ship design
>>spreadsheet?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>DustyLV769@aol.com
>
>Several actually.
>
>I'll send a copy of mine to Dusty under seperate cover.  I'll let others
>reply with theirs as they wish.
>
>A bunch of these were collected on the HIWG-CD, by the way.
>
>Mine is Excel 5.0 compatible.  Other requests welcome.

I that case would you mind sending me one? That way I might actually design
some MT ships someday.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:32:55 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

>Suppose a world in TL 6-8 wishes to build PDM for its pown protection.
>...
>it wants to get them into an adjacent BL/BR hex.

THere's really not much that a TL6-7 world can do, unfortunately, 
except against an ambushed opponent or one in the atmosphere or (at best)
low orbit. A TL-6 or 7 system will end up with only enough delta-V to t
go perhaps 9 km/s - four hours to travel on BL hex. In the same time even
a Fat Trader can travel fourty hexes from a standing start - fairly easy to
get out of the way. (Practically, since any imagineable warhead would only
have a few km of kill radius, is can just sidestep a little; you'd need
millions of warheads to blanket a whole hex.) Such missiles are also sitting
ducks for lasers - even the most primitive laser should be able to kill them
as fast as it can fire (twenty per hour for a cheap civilian model,
hundreds or thousands per hour for a military one.) 

This is one of those things that (if you can) it's always better to buy even
a handful of imported systems rather than rely on indigenous technology.

If you don't have access to imported systems, or det-laser warheads of 
ones own, the only real option is ambush - hide weapons in apparently
civilian satellites, carry out massive attacks on people in very low
orbits, etc. Or wait until they enter the atmosphere.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:29:23 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #818

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:35:22 -0400, steve daniels
<stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:

>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

>> Yep, it sure is.  I stopped into my FLGS today,

>Is that Favorite Little Game Store?

Close.  "Friendly Local Game/Gaming Store/Shop".  

<P Type="plug">
More specifically, The Compleat Strategist, of Thirty-Third
Street in New York City.  The best game shop in the Greater
Rotten Apple.
</P>

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:48:58 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS 22

At 12:35 AM 9/15/98 , you wrote:
>In JTAS 22 there is an article on nuclear weapons, unfortunately one of the
>tables it refers to is missing.  Can anybody send me a copy of the missing
>table?  I am missing JTAS 23 so if it was published in that  I do not know.

Colin,

I have that issue and the ones after that and the *missing* table is not in
any of them. 

The author of the article is on the TML at least a few months ago he was. I
asked him then if he had the missing table. I have yet to have get a
response.;-(

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:12:56 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T5 skills (was re: T4: Native Careers...)

Walter Smith wrote:

> What's wrong with "Brawling" skill for normal hand-to-hand, with combat
> capable styles being reflected as higher levels of brawling and
> non-combat styles (sport, demonstration, excercise, etc.) being
> represented by "special" skills? Special, like Art skills, Hobby skills,
> things like that that usually have little effect on the game but add color.

Nothing wrong with it at all. I think it was merely a minor oversight.

I never really liked having one skill (Melee) to encompass every handheld
weapon beyond sword and the knife.  But neither do I want Glaive,
Flail, Mace, etc. In keeping with the broad nature of Sword, Knife, and
Throwing, how about adding just
Spear (for pointy sticks, polearms, haulberk, etc.), and
Club (for things you swing like axes, hammers, flails, chair legs, etc.).

These would be relative uncommon in high TL societies, but would give
a nice additional depth to more primitive cultures.

Or, just use MT's Blade Combat cascade with (axe, cudgel, foil,
large blade, polearm, small blade).  [I just got MT so I'm not sure
how much I like it compared to other iterations yet].

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:53:13 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: SSDS questions (T4)

Two questions on starship design:

* What is a launch tube?

* Why would I want any other hull material than composite laminate? The
others are more expensive and heavier...

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #820
**********************************

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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 16 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 821



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Re: Bad uniform ideas...
Re: Tech marches on
Re: The TL 8 freighter challenge (longish)
Re: Radiators and Reactors
Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
Re: JTAS 22
Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 
Re: SSDS questions
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: GURPS Traveller Question 
Re : Radiators and Reactors
Purchase T4 supplements
re: Rocketry 100
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:34:35 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

At 06:05 pm 9/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>What would happen if you insulated a ship's radiators to prevent
them
>from dumping heat?  

	You would die, your electronics would fail, and enough stuff would
break or melt until the reactor stopped working; otherwise, your ship
would melt down. You *must* get rid of heat.

>Would it force the reactor to shut down?  What would
>it take to insulate the radiators?

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:28:49 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

At 02:53 am 9/16/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Two questions on starship design:
>
>* What is a launch tube?

	A launch tube is basically a rapid launcher for small craft, usually
fighters.

>* Why would I want any other hull material than composite laminate?
The
>others are more expensive and heavier...

	They also provide better protection ... 

	For example, composite laminate has a toughness/mass ratio (FF&S1,
because that's what's handy) of 0.75, and a toughness/price ratio of
750.  Compare that to Superdense, which has a mass ratio of 0.93 (you
get 24% more protection per unit mass) and a price ratio of 1000 (you
get 33% more protection per unit cost).

	For something where you're mass limited, the *same* amount of mass
buys you more protection. If you're price limited, the *same* money
buys you more protection. Even volumewise, you get more protection...

	The real question is, why would you use composite laminate?  Unless
that's all you have available at your TL ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:54:06 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm wrote:
> 
> Two questions on starship design:
> 
> * What is a launch tube?
> 
A launch tube enables you to launch small craft quickly (one craft every
three minutes, as opposed to one craft every thirty minutes for each
launch port).  You give up volume, and get to keep hull area, for
similar launch rates (it would take ten launch ports, each with a
certain surface area, to equal one launch tube, with the same area as
two launch ports).  See FF&S v2, page 14, for further details.

> * Why would I want any other hull material than composite laminate? The
> others are more expensive and heavier...
> 
Because other materials provide more efficient armor protection.  For
instance, let's compare composite laminate (probably similar to Chobham
or similar armors found on such tanks as Challenger and the M1 Abrams)
with Superdense (the most common starship hull material, IMTU).  Assume
the minimum Armor rating (Ar) required for a spacecraft, Ar 20 (FF&S,
pg. 64), on a 100 Td sphere hull.

MATERIAL    TOUGHNESS  DENSITY	THICK/Ar 20  VOLUME/Ar 20  MASS/Ar 20
Laminate    08.57      08	2.33 cm	     32.62 m^3	   260.96 tons	
Superdense  20.0       15	1.00 cm	     14.00 m^3	   210.00 tons

As the ratio of toughness to density increases, the advantage increases
as well.

The best place to use low-density materials is on planet-bound vehicles,
where there is no minimum Armor rating, just a minimum material
thickness of .25 cm.

> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> | Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
> | jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> | IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
> |      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> |               In politics, left is right!               |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:25:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring

In mail you write:

>> I'm sitting here with a 386SX-40. And until a few months back I was
>> using a 10 Mhz 286-XT. 
>
> What are you doing with *THAT* dinosaur???

Doing fairly well. I've got a 386dx-?? acting as a more or less
dedicated server (with a about a gig worth of drives attached), a
386sx-33 acting as a mostly dedicated communications server (it does
the uucp and fidonet connections), and the 386sx-40 has the good video
card and the sound card. And they all have cheap ethernet cards.

So rather than multi-task one computer, I use multiple, networked
computers. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:31:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

In mail you write:

> Here's a sneaky idea to get stubborn Americans to accept Metric:
>
> create a metric Gallon (4 liters), and a metric Foot (a decimeter).
> When I was in grade school the lack of these two measurements
> irritated me, and turned me off a little to metric.

Alas, a foot is ~3.1 decimeters.  A decimeter is a bit under 4 inches.
Doesn't work well. 

I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most
purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
it's 1.6% too big)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:38:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...

In mail you write:

>> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.  Try firing a
>> M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes, thick rubber gloves, and
>> a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.

Since when do they allow combat troops who *need* glasses?

> ROTFL!!  Been there, done that!
>
> I remember my USMC NBC training and thinking, "Man, just hit me with a
> flame thrower or thermite and, *WHOOSH*, instant American BBQ.  I'm
> supplying the Kingsford brickettes!  Hell, I *AM* the Kingsford
> brickettes."

Reminds me of the "discussion" about the hovertanks in Hammer's
Slammers in a another newsgroup. So idiot thought that it'd only take a
*little* extra power to make the tanks fly (wrong, ground effect takes
a *lot* less power than it would take to "hover" due to pure thrust).
And to help with the power problem, he proposed using *titanium*
instead of iridium for the tank hulls. 

I had to explain that it'd only take *one* powergun hit to ignite such
a hull. And that once ignited, it'd take an act of god to extinguish
the fire. Folks here in Oregon got a good taste of that a few days ago
when a metal fab outfit caught fire. They had to let the titanium stock
burn out.

Titanium is a *wonderful* metal. As long as you don't let it ignite.
After that, forget it. It will burn in pure nitrogen. Once burning,
it'll extract the oxygen from *concrete* to keep burning!

Hmmm, maybe there's a Trav scenario in this. Some merc group buys some
cheap APCs and then discovers that they are cheap because someone had
the bright idea of using *titanium* for armor. Sheer suicide in a
combat environment that has plasma/fusion guns, high energy lasers, and
the occasional PAW.

They might actually not figure it out until one gets hit in combat and
proceeds to turn into the world's biggest "magnesium" flare!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:55:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tech marches on

In mail you write:

> Heh. Imagine if the AI improves over TLs to control more functions.
>
> ObTrav:  While using a rented grav vehicle (or using their own)  on a 
> hi-tech world which requires linking to a traffic control net, our
> intrepid heros decide to swoop down on a rival megacorp's building
> to break in and retrieve the info they've been paid to get.
> Unfortunately, the vehicle responds to the controls by saying,
> "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
>
> Hmmm...has anybody thought of what other applications "smart"
> processors would logically be used for and actually used them in 
> a campaign? If so, how did they work out during play? 

Check out the planetr destroyers in "Dark Star" (the book or the
movie). AI's with a built-in suicide drive. It's their goal to die
gloriously by exploding. And the folks on the ship have to try talking
one *out* of detonating when it's accidentally activated in the missile
bay. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:21:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challenge (longish)

In mail you write:

>> X 2.25 (thermionic converter efficiency 40%)
>
> Can you point me in the direction of some information on this?  It sounds
> neat, and the whole fusion powered steam turbine generator seems laughable
> at high tech levels.

Grab the current issue of Scientific American.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:00:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Radiators and Reactors

In mail you write:

> No, actually, I've got a pesky scout ship with a watchdog program
> electrifying the hull and pointing it's laser at me. It's in a
> pressurized bay with (theoretically) nobody on board (the pilot was
> killed earlier).  I'd like to salvage it so blowing it up isn't too
> productive.

Well, you can neutralize the laser by applying "paint" to the exit
optics. If the computer can tell that they've gotten coated with
something, it can't fire the laser. If it can't tell, the beam will
cause ther coating to vaporize explosively, mangling the optics rather
nicely. It's a good good for a paintball gun. :-)

And as far as electrifying the hull goes, big deal. Your suit is
insulated. The ship *can't* zap you unless you are contacting *both* it
*and* something that isn't charged. Also, the ship can't place all that
high a charge on it's hull, because there's no "ground" available. 

> So again, I ask, what would happen if your radiators stopped working?
> How long would it take? Would the computer "normally" power down the
> system or just let the whole thing blow?  If it did blow what would
> be the effects (in a pressurized bay)?

Frankly, the radiator performance is *already* going to be seriously
degraded because they'll be heating the *air* in the bay. This carries
away heat faster, but only until all the air in the bay reaches the
temp of the radiators. Also, the radiators are designed to radiate heat
to empty space (effective temp 3k). In that bay, the walls are likely
at something approaching room temp (300k). That, too will massively
degrade the performance of the radiators. 

Hit them with a coat of something that's reflective at the right
wavelengths *and* that won't decompose at the red heat the radiators
operate at, and they are pretty well screwed. 

I can't see a ship's computer being programmed to allow it to do
something that will damage the ship severely. So without a manual
override, I'd say the ship *has* to shut down. And frankly, if the bay
can handle the air temp reaching hundreds of degrees, you may not
*need* to do anything else to make the ship shut down its systems.

ps. You will note from the above that ships that dock *internally*
can't use their power plants except at *very* minimal power. And ships
landed on a planet's surface are going to create a *lot* of hot air if
they run their power plants at any sort of power level.

This is one of the reasons that once landed or docked, you switch to an
*external* power feed, and only keep an auxilary generator powerful
enough to "bootstrap" the main system going (and you only do that if
you are paranoid).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:26:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

In mail you write:

> Suppose a world in TL 6-8 wishes to build PDM for its pown protection.
> What warheads can it use.  Suposing that only nuclear weapons are
> practicable, and it wants to get them into an adjacent BL/BR hex.  I
> suggest some sort of MIV warhead designed to bracket the offending
> starship.  This would be somwhat like a limbo ASW mortar (3 barreled
> weapon) using the biggest nukes it could get there.  (Maybe 50+ megatons)
> each boosted into an appropriate pattern coupled to a ground based or
> terminal guidance package.  What do people think?

In space the blast effects from nukes are virtually non-existent. 

You see, almost all the energy (99%? more?) in a nuke comes out in the
form of soft X-rays. In an atmosphere, these get absorbed within a few
meters by the *air*. Said air gets superheated and creates both the
"thermal flash" and the blast wave.

In space, you just get these *incredible* blasts of X-rays. If the
blast is close enough, enough may be absorbed by the hull to cause
portions to melt or even vaporize. And any that pentrate the hull are a
major radiation hazard.

Matter of fact, the lethal radius for a multimegaton weapon in space is
*hundreds* of thousands of KM for *unshielded* personnel. 

But ships tend to be well shielded.

What you are more likely to do is rig the warheads to convert as much
of the blast energy as possible into something that moves "shrapnel".

There's a design for this from rec.arts.sf.science a few years back.
Essentially, you cover the bomb with a layer of styrofoam. This is both
an excellent absorber of X-rays, but also vaporizes nicely. You then
place a layer of "BBs" over this. The designer figured you'd be able to
boost the BBs to several percent of c!

It's also possible, by clever design to get the X-rays (and thus the
BBs) to be emitted all in more or less the same direction. This gives
you a "nuclear shotgun" and is even better.

Get a warhead like that to go off near a ship, and it's going to hurt.
The problem is getting it close enough without it being destroyed first.

They might work as mines. I'd envision a small (less than a cubic
meter) well stealthed device in the kiloton range firing off a bunch of
near c BBs when triggered. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:08:21 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: JTAS 22

Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> replies:

>At 12:35 AM 9/15/98 , you wrote:
>>In JTAS 22 there is an article on nuclear weapons, unfortunately one of the
>>tables it refers to is missing.  Can anybody send me a copy of the missing
>>table?  I am missing JTAS 23 so if it was published in that  I do not know.
>
>Colin,
>
>I have that issue and the ones after that and the *missing* table is not in
>any of them. 
>

 This wouldn't be the table on page 11 of JTAS #23 would it?

Cheers,

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:01:06 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Deckplans Webring 

> In mail you write:
> 
> >> I'm sitting here with a 386SX-40. And until a few months back I was
> >> using a 10 Mhz 286-XT. 
> >
> > What are you doing with *THAT* dinosaur???
> 
> Doing fairly well. I've got a 386dx-?? acting as a more or less
> dedicated server (with a about a gig worth of drives attached), a
> 386sx-33 acting as a mostly dedicated communications server (it does
> the uucp and fidonet connections), and the 386sx-40 has the good video
> card and the sound card. And they all have cheap ethernet cards.
> 
> So rather than multi-task one computer, I use multiple, networked
> computers. :-)

That's kind of the setup I'm thinking of doing; a bunch of semidecked Pent 
boxxes networked together, with this old 486slc2-66 playing firewall.  Looks 
like me & the roomie are both gonna need workstations here, and his will 
pretty much have to be a Win95 boxx due to some of the 'ware he'll need to 
run.  <shrug>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:08:16
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions

>From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
>Subject: SSDS questions (T4)
>
>Two questions on starship design:
>
>* What is a launch tube?
>

Think of it as a 'gun' to shoot 'bullets' (small craft) and you arent too
wrong.

>* Why would I want any other hull material than composite laminate? The
>others are more expensive and heavier...

They also have more toughness per cm of thickness, and toughness is what
counts.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:32:52 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Alas, a foot is ~3.1 decimeters.  A decimeter is a bit under 4 inches.
> Doesn't work well. 
> 
> I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most
> purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
> it's 1.6% too big)                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???

10ft = 1 meter is *not* 1.6% too big, it is about three times as big, or
200% bigger than it should be. I do not understand why you divide by three
in your calculation.

3ft is about 0.9 meters, which is a quite good approximation. When
roleplaying (only occassion where I encounter Imperial measurements) I use
1ft = 0.3 meters, which is very close to the real value.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:45:33 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

Ooops... I think I need to clarify myself a bit here. First of all, I do
not own FF&S2 (but I want to, where can I still purchase it?).

* Launch tubes... In the T4 rules there is no such thing as a lauch port.
Internal hangars use surface area, so they obviously have their own. A
launch tube uses twice the area and more than ten times the volume
compared to any other facility. So... under strictly SSDS rules... why use
it? Can a single launch tube carry more than one small craft?

* Armor value and material strength... the FF&S reasoning sounds good, and
it was something along the lines of what I had figured myself. The problem
is, this is not in the rules. I have thought about using the material
density as a modifier to the armor value somehow, but how?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:13:50 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question 

> On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> > Alas, a foot is ~3.1 decimeters.  A decimeter is a bit under 4 inches.
> > Doesn't work well. 
> > 
> > I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most
> > purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
> > it's 1.6% too big)                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
> 
> 10ft = 1 meter is *not* 1.6% too big, it is about three times as big, or
> 200% bigger than it should be. I do not understand why you divide by three
> in your calculation.
> 
> 3ft is about 0.9 meters, which is a quite good approximation. When
> roleplaying (only occassion where I encounter Imperial measurements) I use
> 1ft = 0.3 meters, which is very close to the real value.

Let's face it, some of us gringos have a *helluva* time with metric.

Fortunately, I'm not one of them.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:03:28 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Radiators and Reactors

<HTML>
Bruce Macintosh wrote :-
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>The 1.5% efficiency number presumably comes from assuming all the fuel is&nbsp;
burned for heat and 1.5% is converted into power. I've always assumed that
the efficiency just means only 1.5% of the hydrogen is properly burned&nbsp;
(possibly because only the natural deuterium burns, or because its&nbsp;
inefficient to recycle the hydrogen in partially-burned fuel because it&nbsp;
contains too much tritium, or because it gets vented to space after running
through an MHD generator, etc.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Fair enough.
<BR>I just think that we could probably get better performance out of the
reactor.
<BR>(If manipulating gravity is easy, then this shouldn't be too difficult!)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
:-)
<BR>Contemporary fission plants (viz. TL 6-7 designs!) run at about 30%
fission to electricity efficiency (25 to 33%), and proposed breeder designs
eg. molten salt and gas cooled fast breeders could get above 45%. (48-50%
appears to be the upper limit).

<P>Fuse the deuterium ('natural' v. manufactured matters little on the
atomic scale in hot, dense plasma), skim off the tritium (potentially very
energy-intensive - it is better to fuse it, as D-T fusion yields more energy
- - 17.6MeV or 0.38% mass conversion vs. D-D's average 3.6MeV or 0.1%).
<BR>Spitting it out the back of the ship is just wasteful, MHD turbine
or no. It's probably not too
<BR>stealthy either, with all that hot, charged stuff flying about (implications
for starship combat?). However, it's a good way of removing 'waste' heat.

<P>Another implication for accumulating tritium - proliferation of fusion
weapon ready material.
<BR>Tritium is too precious to waste, and potentially too deadly to have
on the open market. (sociopaths in their basements building laser-triggered
suitcase fusion bombs....)
<BR>It's a better thing if the stuff is 'burned'. Optionally, it may enable
frequent inspection of fusion piles by oversight authorities - ??not compatible
with 'Yanks in Space'??
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>The radiator sizes in FFS2 assume soemthing closer to 90% efficiency&nbsp;
(mildly unrealistic, admittedly) for TL12 reactors, which then run their
radiators at 1000 - 2000 K. This makes large ships at least vaguely
plausible - if we use Robert's numbers, which have a normal scout
radiating 4000 MW, big ships are impossible.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;
<BR>I agree wholeheartedly with the paragraph above.

<P>Big ships definitely exist in Traveller, so can we fix things without
too many handwaves?
<BR>Fusion plants may run like fission ones, where fuel economy is very
dependent on how tight you make your fuel cycles.

<P>I'm sorry if I'm sounding like some sort of evangelist, but I'm extrapolating
current environmental concern trends into my Traveller universe.
<BR>Fusion will have to be very, very clean to be accepted by the Greenies
of the far future...
<BR>and heat plumes and exhaust material might not cut the mustard.

<P>Robert O'Connor
<BR>Medico, Gearhead and Gaming Enthusiast
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:16:28 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Purchase T4 supplements

I have a problem...

I am looking for two T4 supplements, 'Aliens archive' and 'Fire, fusion
and steel'. My local store cannot get them for me, and I thus want to
order them from some kind of web store. I do not want to pay by credit
card, instead preferring international money order.

Does anyone know of a store that can provide this service?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:50:40 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Rocketry 100

Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In space the blast effects from nukes are virtually non-existent. 

You see, almost all the energy (99%? more?) in a nuke comes out in the
form of soft X-rays. In an atmosphere, these get absorbed within a few
meters by the *air*. Said air gets superheated and creates both the
"thermal flash" and the blast wave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I thought a properly constructed nuke in space could give you a
Hard-X-ray blast that would travel nice, and give you kinetic-like
effects (blast wave) when hitting nice hard things like starship hulls.

Can't recall the article - from an issue of JTAS?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:05:29 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>In mail you write:
>
>
>I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most
>purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
>it's 1.6% too big)
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

I presume that you mean 10ft = 3m....

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:51:40 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:

> >Suppose a world in TL 6-8 wishes to build PDM for its pown protection.
> >...
> >it wants to get them into an adjacent BL/BR hex.         
>
> THere's really not much that a TL6-7 world can do, unfortunately,
> except against an ambushed opponent or one in the atmosphere or (at best)
> low orbit. A TL-6 or 7 system will end up with only enough delta-V to t
> go perhaps 9 km/s - four hours to travel on BL hex. In the same time even
> a Fat Trader can travel fourty hexes from a standing start - fairly easy to 

Umm, 9 km/s is about 30 Mm/h (a BL hex an hour, about half a G-turn).
A fat trader could manage three hexes at most in that time.  As a PDM,
you could use it to mine the area near a planet after an enemy is seen
emerging at the jump limit.  Are det-lasers or other reasonable anti-
starship missile warheads available at tech-7?

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #821
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 16 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 822



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS Traveller Question
My FF&S Spreadsheet and TNE
Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
California Split Level Bridge
PC Question
Returning.
Stutterwarp
Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821
The Sable Rose affair
Re: JTAS 22
Re: The Sable Rose affair
Re: GT ISBNs
Re: Bad uniform ideas...
Re:Virus LIVES
Re: Returning.
Re: PC Question
Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)
re: Lament of a Devout Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:15:50 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> >
> > > Alas, a foot is ~3.1 decimeters.  A decimeter is a bit under 4 inches.
> > > Doesn't work well.
> > >
> > > I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most
> > > purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
> > > it's 1.6% too big)                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
> >
> > 10ft = 1 meter is *not* 1.6% too big, it is about three times as big, or
> > 200% bigger than it should be. I do not understand why you divide by three
> > in your calculation.
> >
> > 3ft is about 0.9 meters, which is a quite good approximation. When
> > roleplaying (only occassion where I encounter Imperial measurements) I use
> > 1ft = 0.3 meters, which is very close to the real value.

And Kevin wrote:
 
> Let's face it, some of us gringos have a *helluva* time with metric.
> 
> Fortunately, I'm not one of them.  <grin>
 
	And the easiest way for either party to use either system is to use the
system and not try to make a comparison between them. IMHO the biggest
mistake we can made here is to try to equate the two systems instead of
flat out learning/adopting one or the other as the standard. I too was
lucky in that I found metric to be a better unit to work with some time
before it was introduced into our country.

	Jim C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:53:53 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: My FF&S Spreadsheet and TNE

Per the many requests I have received, I have begun adding Brilliant Lances
and Battle Rider USP support to my FF&S spreadsheet. There are two ways I
can approach this:

1) Simply use FF&S2 data in the TNE format...
2) Convert (or try to convert) the FF&S2 data to FF&S1, and then use the TNE
format...

The first choice has the strength of being moderately simple. However, it
does meant that ships designed with my sheet will be grossly incompatable
with TNE designed ships. This may or may not be a problem - if you simply
want to use your new FF&S2 designs in BL or BR, this may be the way to go.

The second choice is much more complicated, and thus will take me longer. In
addition, I'm not even sure that it can be done, I'll have to talk to Guy,
Dave, and Bruce about it. If it can be done, it would have the benefit of
making your ships a bit more compatable with TNE designed ships (although I
sincerely doubt we can make them 100% compatable).

I would value everyone's opinion on these ideas...particularly those of you
who have been pestering, um, ah, politely requesting this feature :) (please
note the smiley)

A third posibility, of course, is to have a brand spanking new FF&S1
spreadsheet. I would take the existing sheet and alter it to be TNE
compatable, thus creating a new sheet. If there is a huge outcry for this, I
will consider it...but it would be the most time consuming choice of them
all, I think.

Thanks...

FYI: Also on the agenda due to requests are mixed TL weaponry.

I don't have a timetable for release yet...school, work, and family dictate
that I cannot spend 100% of my time on this :)


+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                         |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/ - AOL IM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AOL IM: CMS AndyA  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+    |
|       vi+ da+                                                        |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+      |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                             |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Traveller = +1 EDU

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:
> I too was
> lucky in that I found metric to be a better unit to work with some time
> before it was introduced into our country.

Actually, I learned metric from playing Traveller as a kid. And how to
count in hexadecimal too (the whole concept of non-base-ten number systems
really). Sure came in handy later in certain classes. While everyone else
was trying to figure out the basics of the units, I could just get on with
the work.  :)

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:40:29 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

>I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most
>purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
>it's 1.6% too big)

You mean 10ft = 3m, right?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:42:35 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: California Split Level Bridge

I've seen a book on the art of the movie Alien, it included some
concept art. One of the pieces was the original bridge of the
_Nostromo_, back when the concept had it as an exploration ship.
They call the bridge the "California Split Level", due to the two-level
design, large windows and ramp between the two levels - very different
from the more businesslike bridge decided on for the movie.

Is it my imagination, or was this art piece used as inspiration for the
bridge design and illustration for the _Donosev_ class Survey Cruiser
in DGP's _World Tamer's Handbook_? The layout appears nearly
identical, and the seat designs seem the same as well.

Haven't seen this Alien art book in years, so can't check the artists - 
I wonder if some of them did work for DGP after the movie work.

Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:46:10 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: PC Question

Our A/V tech has found a place where I can buy a 486 with 16m RAM and
keyboard/mouse/monitor for $200, including a 1-year warranty. I don't know
the size of the hard drives (depends on what the chap has in stock).

Questions: 

1) Is this a reasonable price? (Note I'm paying in Canadian dollars)

2) What are the system requirements for running a nice simple development
environment? (For those of you that want PC versions of Infini-V, QSDS,
IGS, Metator...)

3) How much extra will a nice development environment run me?  Ideally I'd
like Visual Pascal, except I don't think anyone makes it :-(

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:57:49 -0700
From: "Joe Hamrick" <jnbtech@mind.net>
Subject: Returning.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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After quite a long absence, I've returned to the TML!=20

I know.. Big deal! ;)

Joe Hamrick

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>After quite a long absence, I've =
returned to the=20
TML! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know.. Big deal! ;)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Joe =
Hamrick</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:59:34 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Stutterwarp

     Some of what you said Simon was germane to the problem at hand, but
the rest threw me.  In most Traveller that I have played (Original, Mega,
and TNE) they never mention Stutterwarp at all.  The only Traveller product
that does mention Stutterwarp is 2300, not really a part of the Traveller
universe that contains the other three.  As far as I know Stutterwarp was
never explained in any form that could have been used for Original
Traveller, or Mega-Traveller.
     The use of Stutterwarp as defined in FFS provides a significant
advance in both starship movement and tactical combat.  Our current ability
to crate Stutterwarp is very limited, in that we can not get it above
Efficiency 3.  Also in calculating Efficiency part of the equation is TL
+4, but we only get the benefit of 4 no TL adder.
     Our problem stems from the fact that we have only one small production
facility, only 18 Billion Credits of production capacity per month, and
there fore can only create a small number of ships at a time.  To
complicate matter further, it take a large amount of money to create a
starship even if the only things you're paying for are the labor and
materials.  So to make money we need to use a good portion of that
production facility to create ships for sale.  Also ships do not come off
the production line like candy bars, it takes us 1 month per MCr 100 of the
ships sale price to complete it.
     Now our opponents are the Regency, which has huge fleets, never mind
the full construction facilities of a Pre-colapse imperial sector, 3 to be
exact, and the Capellan Confederation which owns a subsector and another
half of one as well as all the production facilities that survived in that
region of space (four or five that we know of).  If we hadn't invested so
much time and effort setting up our production facility on this planet we
would more than likely leave.  If we did leave this would be the second
planet we've had to evacuate.  The first was were we awakened to find the
system under the control of a Virus (Mother type who controlled several
ships and the scout base, as well as a pre-Virul AI gone nuts on the
planet) and had to leave to save our vessel.
     The Capellan Confederation had at one time captured our scientist and
forced him to work for them.  We rescued the man, but were unable to
destroy the prototype he was forced to build for them.  This means in the
very near future the very militaristic and land hungry Pocket Empire will
have in it's power ships able to destroy the Regency, regardless of the
home fleets.  On top of that the Regency passed some legislation to allow
them to extend the boarders so we are now inside the Regency proper.
There's more but I am tired of typing.  Leave it to say we are very much in
the pickle jar.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: rocketry 100 (comes before 101)

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> In space the blast effects from nukes are virtually non-existent. 
> 
> In space, you just get these *incredible* blasts of X-rays. If the
> blast is close enough, enough may be absorbed by the hull to cause
> portions to melt or even vaporize. And any that pentrate the hull are a
> major radiation hazard.

Actually, you do get an effect which resembles a shockwave -- the blast of
X-rays is not only extremely powerful, it is also extremely short in duration. 
The result is to _suddenly_ heat up the outer layer of any object exposed to
the blast, which will result in sudden thermal expansion, which then results in
a shockwave initiating at the surface of the solid and transmitting itself
through the surface.  This can reasonably cause damage to the frame of a
vehicle, or even cause it to shatter.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:07:37 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU 

> 
> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:
> > I too was
> > lucky in that I found metric to be a better unit to work with some time
> > before it was introduced into our country.
> 
> Actually, I learned metric from playing Traveller as a kid. And how to
> count in hexadecimal too (the whole concept of non-base-ten number systems
> really). Sure came in handy later in certain classes. While everyone else
> was trying to figure out the basics of the units, I could just get on with
> the work.  :)

I learned the basics of it in school back in the 60's, when everybody thought the US was gonna go metric.  It got reinforced in my time in the Army.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:12:34 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821

1 meter equals 3.25 feet, so it would be much easier to say 2 meters equals
5 feet.  Then you wouls only be off by 1/2 foot.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:17:23 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: The Sable Rose affair

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Does anyone recall this old CT scenario published in White Dwarf 
about twenty years ago? Any info welcome.

regards, Andy Long

- - -------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			andrewlong@hotmail.com
Abu Dhabi			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
				+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- - -------------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:46:38 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: JTAS 22

GypsyComet@aol.com posted:
>
>Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> replies:
>
>>At 12:35 AM 9/15/98 , you wrote:
>>>In JTAS 22 there is an article on nuclear weapons, unfortunately one of
the
>>>tables it refers to is missing.  Can anybody send me a copy of the
missing
>>>table?  I am missing JTAS 23 so if it was published in that  I do not
know.
>>
>>Colin,
>>
>>I have that issue and the ones after that and the *missing* table is not
in
>>any of them. 
>>
>
> This wouldn't be the table on page 11 of JTAS #23 would it?

Yes, it is. I have a copy of the page converted to .txt
format, if anyone would like a copy. It's on my home
machine, so please reply to my personal email of:
warlock@imagin.net

I'll be happy to send it in .zip format.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:00:43 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: The Sable Rose affair

At 08:17 PM 9/16/98 +0400, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Does anyone recall this old CT scenario published in White Dwarf 
>about twenty years ago? Any info welcome.
>
>regards, Andy Long

I remember "The Snowbird Conspiricy" which dealt with a 300t scout ship,
but that is about it.

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:03:34 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: Re: GT ISBNs

>Hi Loren,
>
>On TML, you wrote:
>
> > GURPS Traveller (hardback)       1-55634-356-6     Stock #6602
>
>Do you have the sellings prices for the hardback by now ?
>
>tia,
>- Lars.

lars,

The hardback price is US$29.95, and projected availability is early in
October.

Softback is US$22.95, in case anyone doesn't know.




Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:52:03 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...

At 08:38 PM 9/15/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.  Try
firing >>> a M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes, thick
rubber gloves, 
>>> and a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.
>
>Since when do they allow combat troops who *need* glasses?

In the US Army?  Since 1777.  You can't be too blind, but with my
uncorrected 20/60 vision I qualified as a sniper.  I went through several
pairs of issue "birth control" glasses (thick black plastic frames, plastic
lenses) while keeping a good pair of glasses for off-duty.

- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:06:58 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re:Virus LIVES

At 11:10 AM 9/15/98 -0400, you wrote:

>So far, Dulinor's unfortunate "accident" is the sole point of divergence.
>Which means that somewhere out there, an Imperial Research Station is
>still hard at work on the ancestors of everyone's favorite
>quasi-plausible superweapon.

I was under the impression from reading "Survival Margin" that the Virus
project was a wartime inovation.  Dulinor's people had never heard of the
research station involved, nor did it show on any of the pre-War lists.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:43:43 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Returning.

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It's always a big deal when we get one back!  :^)

Welcome home.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls=20
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Joe Hamrick <jnbtech@mind.net>
    To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
    Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 9:34 AM
    Subject: Returning.
   =20
   =20
    After quite a long absence, I've returned to the TML!=20
    =20
    I know.. Big deal! ;)
    =20
    Joe Hamrick

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>It's always a big deal when we get =
one=20
back!&nbsp; :^)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Welcome home.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>douglas</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>E-Mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:douglas@teleport.com">douglas@teleport.com</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller">http://www.teleport.c=
om/~douglas/traveller</A><BR>IMTU=20
tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls <BR>The early bird gets =
the worm,=20
BUT<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the second mouse gets the cheese!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Joe Hamrick &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:jnbtech@mind.net">jnbtech@mind.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:traveller@MPGN.COM">traveller@MPGN.COM</A> &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:traveller@MPGN.COM">traveller@MPGN.COM</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=
=20
    </B>Wednesday, September 16, 1998 9:34 AM<BR><B>Subject:=20
    </B>Returning.<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>After quite a long absence, I've =
returned to=20
    the TML! </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know.. Big deal! =
;)</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Joe=20
Hamrick</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:26:51 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: PC Question

Rob Prior wrote:
 
> Our A/V tech has found a place where I can buy a 486 with 16m RAM and
> keyboard/mouse/monitor for $200, including a 1-year warranty. I don't > know the size of the hard drives (depends on what the chap has in > stock).

> 1) Is this a reasonable price? (Note I'm paying in Canadian dollars)

Maybe.  Hum, in US$ that would be about $300, I think.

Here are some things I'd look at...

...the speed of the 486, you won't be happy with less than 100mhz and
133mhz would be better for development. I'm guessing that the system you
are looking at is 66mhz, though, and this will be slow...but usable if
you don't overtax it.

...the size/quality of the monitor, 14" makes for a small screen when
using a GUI and a dot pitch greater than .28 will make for fuzzier
images than you'd like. 
 
...the size of the hard drive, there is *never* enough room on one, but
if you intend to run Win9x then you should have at least a gig. 

To be honest, Rob, I don't know if you could get a satisfactory system
for 200 Canadian.

> 3) How much extra will a nice development environment run me?  Ideally >I'd like Visual Pascal, except I don't think anyone makes it :-(

Delphi by Inprise (they use to be Borland) is what you're looking for.
It's Turbo Pascal 8 (Object Pascal) with a Visual RAD environment. If
you know pascal you'll like Delphi. Here are the system requirements for
Delphi 4:  Intel 486DX/66 MHz or higher, Microsoft Windows 95 or Windows
NT 4.0 (Service Pack 3), Memory 16Mb of RAM (32Mb or higher
recommended),60Mb hard disk space (compact install),CD-ROM drive,VGA or
higher resolution monitor,Mouse or other pointing device.

Of course, if you can find it Delphi 3 (or even 2) would be more than
enough to do what you want, cheaper and with smaller system
requirements.

You could also do your development in Java and get cross platform
compatability...<g>...something a non-Win9x person like me would like.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)

I've been going through my magazine collection lately, creating a
computerized index of the whole mess so that when I want to find
an article on a specific topic, it's as easy as typing a word and
getting a list of hits. A depressed feeling came over me,
however, just looking at the number of Traveller magazines &
fanzines that appear to have been discontinued.

   JTAS
   Travellers Digest
   Traveller Chronicle
   High Passage
   Far Traveller
   Challenge
   Signal GK
   Jumpspace
   Security Leak
   Voyages
   Darkstar
   Alien Star
   (and probably quite a few that I've missed)

Are any of these still in publication? If not, what the heck's
going on? Traveller is the game that won't die. You'd think that
there must be a lot of people out there who, at the very least,
want to run a Traveller fanzine, and perhaps a few who want put
down some capital and run a full-fledged magazine dedicated
solely to Traveller.

Marc, I don't know if you're reading this, but are you doing
anything to encourage the publication of Traveller-related
magazines by independant publishers? Is there anything we can
do as a group to encourage them?

Is there nobody knocking on your door wanting to put out a
fanzine, or is there some hang-up with licensing that's screwing
everything up?

Inquiring minds want to know...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:58:29 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Lament of a Devout Traveller

Jim Vassilakos wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Are any of these still in publication? If not, what the heck's
going on? Traveller is the game that won't die. You'd think that
there must be a lot of people out there who, at the very least,
want to run a Traveller fanzine, and perhaps a few who want put
down some capital and run a full-fledged magazine dedicated
solely to Traveller.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
I'll bet that the efforts that once went into Traveller-only fanzines
are now going into the great bunch of Traveller-oriented web
pages we've got now. Total up the graphics, deckplans,
fleets, fiction, library entries and such that are on web pages now...
imagine how many fanzine issues they would fill if they were
published in that format. Now add in Andy's (and other's) spreadsheets,
sector generators like you and others have provided, reusable
clip art, etc. etc. etc....

It may be that the Traveller fanzine has seen it's day, to be replaced
by the Traveller web. Data presented as a growing body of data, all parts
(or most parts) continually and universally available, instead of
presented in monthly packages of limited-run editions.

I've seen the whole range of quality on Traveller web pages.
Good ideas with poor presentation, poor ideas with good clip art,
some pages that are top quality from start to finish and make you
think you've wandered into TAS's own library system. I think a good
look at the runs of most of the paper fanzines will find a similar range
in quality...more weighted towards the better end, though, what with
an editor's eye looking over it before press time.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #822
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 17 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 823



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Sable Rose affair by Bob McWilliams.
The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #822
re: Traveller=+1 EDU
Sable Rose Affair
Re: The Sable Rose affair
Re: MT Starship spreadsheet/HIWG CD
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #822
Re:Virus LIVES
Bolos (again)
RE: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)
Re: The Sable Rose affair 
Re: PC Question 
Re: JTAS 22
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: My FF&S Spreadsheet and TNE
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU 
Re: Bad uniform ideas...
Off topic question
Re: JTAS 22
Re: The Sable Rose affair
Re: PC Question
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #818
Re: Tech marches on
Re: T5 skills (was re: T4: Native Careers...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:19:24 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: The Sable Rose affair by Bob McWilliams.

>>
>>Does anyone recall this old CT scenario published in White Dwarf 
>>about twenty years ago? Any info welcome.
>>
>>regards, Andy Long

The Sable Rose Affair, was published in an WD no 17.  However, I 
think it may have been reprinted in one of the best of White Dwarf
scenarios. 

It is in The Best of White Dwarf Scenarios page 34 to 38 







>
>I remember "The Snowbird Conspiricy" which dealt with a 300t scout ship,
>but that is about it.
>
>Kurt Feltenberger
>

The Snowbird Mystery by Andy Slack is in The Best of White Dwarf Scenarios
Volume 3.




Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:32:06 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles

Does anyone know if the book

  The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles was published?

Does anyone have a spare copy they may be willing to part with ?

TIA



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:34:33 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Brannon Boren wrote:

> Actually, I learned metric from playing Traveller as a kid. And how to
> count in hexadecimal too (the whole concept of non-base-ten number systems
> really). Sure came in handy later in certain classes. While everyone else
> was trying to figure out the basics of the units, I could just get on with
> the work.  :)

So, the 'figure your UPP' test was not wrong, then... playing Traveller
does indeed make you more intelligent...

But off course, we knew that already :-)

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:38:06 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #822

The spread sheet I just down loaded from the web has a sheet that displays
the ship in BR-BL format and then another that displays it  in T4.  The
sheet where you construct the ship has all the information fro the FFS and
lets you designate if the crew standards will be in FFS2 or FFS1 or even
modified FFS1.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:38:19 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Traveller=+1 EDU

Spacejens wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, the 'figure your UPP' test was not wrong, then... playing Traveller
does indeed make you more intelligent...

But off course, we knew that already :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Anyone still have a copy of the UPP test? I saw it at a con, but not since.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:13:23 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Sable Rose Affair

I dimly rememember trying to smuggle weaponry into the Sable Rose bar as
part of a musician's kit. The adventure was reprinted in one of the Best
Ofs. But I dunno which one.


MJD

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:57:38 +0200
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: The Sable Rose affair

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

> >Does anyone recall this old CT scenario published in White Dwarf
> >about twenty years ago? Any info welcome.
>
> I remember "The Snowbird Conspiricy" which dealt with a 300t scout ship,
> but that is about it.

20 years ago!??!! Bloody hell have I been at this thing that long? I think I
bought CT in the summer holidays of '79. I do remember the scenario well. The
team was lead by Duncan Takei with Fordson Cole as 2IC. It was the first Trav
adventure I read. It was also back when WD was a good RPG mag.

For those interested, Andy Slack has a great web site with a lot of his old
WD articles and some good 2300 stuff.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/AndySlack/traveller.htm

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:07:08 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: MT Starship spreadsheet/HIWG CD

> A bunch of these were collected on the HIWG-CD, by the way.

Now this grabbed my attention! Did someone really produce a HIWG CD? If so are
there any copies left or can more copies be made?

	Yes. And the HIWG material and more are now finally available on a format
that can contain all the info.
	Yes. Copies are still available.
	An outdated, incomplete list can be found at:
	members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller

	Ordering info:

Bryan Borich
3890 50th street
San Diego, CA 92105-3005

	Cost is $20 (including shipping and handling). M.O. preferred (visiting the
bank usually takes weeks).

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:14:49 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #822

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
> The spread sheet I just down loaded from the web has a sheet that displays
> the ship in BR-BL format and then another that displays it  in T4.  The
> sheet where you construct the ship has all the information fro the FFS and
> lets you designate if the crew standards will be in FFS2 or FFS1 or even
> modified FFS1.
> 
> Leo

Do you have a URL?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:24:06 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re:Virus LIVES

> >So far, Dulinor's unfortunate "accident" is the sole point of divergence.
> >Which means that somewhere out there, an Imperial Research Station is
> >still hard at work on the ancestors of everyone's favorite
> >quasi-plausible superweapon.
> 
> I was under the impression from reading "Survival Margin" that the Virus
> project was a wartime inovation.  Dulinor's people had never heard of the
> research station involved, nor did it show on any of the pre-War lists.

The SDG-313F series transponders became mandatory equipment on all spacecraft
operating in Imperial boundaries in 1088.  The Discovery of Cymbeline's chips
in 1067.  The SDG-313F completed final testing in 1086.  They were breeding
new strains of chips the whole time, till they found with the qualities they
wanted (reliable mutation, infallibility, etc).  The Chief of Combined
Imperial Intelligence from 1097 to 1108 had ordered research to begin on
researching ways to use the chips to disable enemy ships, instead of needing
to destroy them.  It's the TL16-17 programs at Research Station Omicron in
1128 that complete the work on Virus (essentially just restoring sentience to
the chips in every little black box).  

So yeah, the research for Virus, per se didn't begin until the the late 1110s
(and begin in earnest under Lucan's Black War), but there would have been
numerous "transponder" research stations where the work could be expanded on.
The order to produce the means on further chip research sigence hould still
have been issued (though maybe by 1120, a new Chief of Combined Intelligence
could well countermand or divert funding to other areas.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:29:45 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Bolos (again)

Recently found a 4 volume set of short stories oriented around Keith
Laumer's Bolos.  

Publisher: BAEN Publishing Enterprises-
Distributer: Simon & Schuster

Volume 1: Honor of the Regiment, ISBN 0-671-72184-4
Volume 2: The Unconquerable, ISBN 0-671-87629-5
Volume 3: The Triumphant, ISBN 0-671-873683-X
volume 4: Last Stand, ISBN 0-671-87760-7

Vols 1 & 2 are just Bolo stories.

Volume 3, however, has a section of Technical Notes on Bolos. Including a
chart of all Bolos, MAIN weapons and Secondary weapons. Potential gearhead
gold mine. 

Example: page 370, 

'Mark XIV Bolo (2307)

The Mark XIV replaced the never entirely staisfactory laser "main gun" with
of ealier Marks with far more destructive "Hellbore" PLASMA gun. This 25cm
weapon was originally designed for the Concordiat Navy's Magyar Class
battlecruiser main batteries, had a half a megaton/sec energy output ...'

Let's see, I believe an earlier comment on a different subject from Ian
Whitchurch noted that a megaton can be equated to 4.2e9 Mj; so a half would
be 2.1e9 Mj. Megajoules being the basis for Traveller High Energy weapons
design in FF&S ... now where is my FF&S....

Volume 4, for both the Bolos and Reteif fans, ends with a second on Human
Expansion beyond Concordiat space. Mostly short discussions of Concordiat
wars and who the enemies were.

Garry  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:44:12 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: RE: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)

>   (and probably quite a few that I've missed)

	Yeap, definitely quite a few (on the CD there is a much more complete list,
somewhere I think. Or running around in my other email). A couple of 'zines
are also on the CD.

> Are any of these still in publication?

	Yes. Signal GK I believe still is, BITs has a newsletter and AAB is still
going as the longest running fanzine. There's also Meshan Saga available
electronically. And I presume Dark Star is still going whenever the author
finds the time. I think Starburst is still going, and maybe Roger Myhre's
fanzine (and maybe not).

>If not, what the heck's going on?

	I'd say a couple of things. HIWG stopped advertising for members a few years
ago, at least in part because of the changes from MT to TNE and than to T4,
being an organization consisting of volunteers (members had real lives that do
interfere, interests change, different rules systems didn't help, etc...), it
probably lacked the energy to regroup itself, whenever things would get
settled and HIWG might start ramping up, a new game would come out.
	The reason I mentioned HIWG (its membership) is that is provided a lot of the
fanzines that used to be out there.
	After that there was the advent of the Delphi, GEnie and the Internet and now
the web. Traveller discussions and development probably reached there heyday
on GEnie and on the early TML's. Right now I'd actually say email in some
respects interferes with development, some of this can be seen in the
development of all the different mailing lists.
	The web also replaces the work done that used to be devoted to fanzines (as
somebody already mentioned), everytime I take a look through the webring this
can be seen from my viewpoint. And as much as I love at least 99% of the
websites out there, I think websites actually detract to some extent from work
on Traveller material. It is also a very chaotic environment, that is getting
more so (this can be seen by all the new rings coming out).
	All of these topics have been discussed by HIWG members. For that matter we
are now somewhat involved in a similar discussion to see what we can do to
improve the situation and better support Traveller.
	Also, websites don't have lasting effect that fanzines have (they can come
and go overnight and the work is lost as people lose interest, or lose
access). Which brings up the fact that there has been some initial discussions
about putting websites on the CD (I'd be interested in more feedback on that
too).


> Traveller is the game that won't die. You'd think that there must be a lot
of people
> out there who, at the very least, want to run a Traveller fanzine, and
perhaps a few
> who want put down some capital and run a full-fledged magazine dedicated
> solely to Traveller.

	Yes there are. Harold Hale and John Muncy have been negotiating with Marc on
doing a magazine, unluckily talks have stalled yet again. I'll leave it up to
Marc to say why.
	I've already had some discussion with Marc stating that I think a Traveller
magazine (paper or CD) out there in some form is highly important.
	Andy Lilly would also like the same.

> Is there anything we can do as a group to encourage them?

	I shouldn't say this probably, but email Marc, tell him you'd like to see a
magazine.

> or is there some hang-up with licensing that's screwing everything up?

	Yes.


> Inquiring minds want to know...

	Well, the above should point out some of the problems. Now if anybody has any
definite answers I'd really like to hear them. I have some I've put on the
HIWG list, but I'd like to hear more from others. This letter from Jim has
just made me do so sooner rather than later.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:17:15 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: The Sable Rose affair 

> Does anyone recall this old CT scenario published in White Dwarf 
> about twenty years ago? Any info welcome.

Did you check Andy Slack's website?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:30:52 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: PC Question 

> Rob Prior wrote:
>  
> > Our A/V tech has found a place where I can buy a 486 with 16m RAM and
> > keyboard/mouse/monitor for $200, including a 1-year warranty. I don't > know the size of the hard drives (depends on what the chap has in > stock).
> 
> > 1) Is this a reasonable price? (Note I'm paying in Canadian dollars)
> 
> Maybe.  Hum, in US$ that would be about $300, I think.

In US$, it's about $130.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:35:58 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: JTAS 22

At 02:08 AM 9/16/98 , you wrote:
>Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net> replies:
>
>>At 12:35 AM 9/15/98 , you wrote:
>>>In JTAS 22 there is an article on nuclear weapons, unfortunately one of the
>>>tables it refers to is missing.  Can anybody send me a copy of the missing
>>>table?  I am missing JTAS 23 so if it was published in that  I do not know.
>>
>>Colin,
>>
>>I have that issue and the ones after that and the *missing* table is not in
>>any of them. 
>>
>
> This wouldn't be the table on page 11 of JTAS #23 would it?
>
>Cheers,
>
>GypsyComet

Well there are TWO missing tables from JTAS 22, Table 1 was printed in JTAS
23, read the article it discusses TWO tables, the MISSING one has all of
the good info in it like the penetration ratings and AM warheads.

But thank you for your help.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:05:17 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

At 11:45 am 9/16/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Ooops... I think I need to clarify myself a bit here. First of all,
I do
>not own FF&S2 (but I want to, where can I still purchase it?).
>
>* Launch tubes... In the T4 rules there is no such thing as a lauch
port.
>Internal hangars use surface area, so they obviously have their own.
A
>launch tube uses twice the area and more than ten times the volume
>compared to any other facility. So... under strictly SSDS rules...
why use
>it? Can a single launch tube carry more than one small craft?

	The launch tube doesn't carry vehicles, it launches them. You're
limited to a single craft per 30min turn from a regular hangar.

>* Armor value and material strength... the FF&S reasoning sounds
good, and
>it was something along the lines of what I had figured myself. The
problem
>is, this is not in the rules. I have thought about using the
material
>density as a modifier to the armor value somehow, but how?

	If this is the SSDS rolled into the abomination known as Starships,
the material factors are all already rolled into the calculations
once you pick a specific TL column to use.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:16:42 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: My FF&S Spreadsheet and TNE

At 09:53 am 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Per the many requests I have received, I have begun adding Brilliant
Lances
>and Battle Rider USP support to my FF&S spreadsheet. There are two
ways I
>can approach this:
>
>1) Simply use FF&S2 data in the TNE format...
>2) Convert (or try to convert) the FF&S2 data to FF&S1, and then use
the TNE
>format...
>
>The first choice has the strength of being moderately simple.
However, it
>does meant that ships designed with my sheet will be grossly
incompatable
>with TNE designed ships. This may or may not be a problem - if you
simply
>want to use your new FF&S2 designs in BL or BR, this may be the way
to go.

	Right off the top of my head, I think the only gross difference in
the *ratings* is the armor factor--take the FF&S2 armor factor, and
multiply by 10.5/15 to get BL/BR armor factor. Most of the rest of
the differences are "invisible" (i.e. internal structure volumes are
different, power plant efficiencies, etc.).  Oh, and T4 didn't use
penetration.

	You'd also have to figure a way to re-rate sensors from the
sensitivity rating to the BL/BR short range.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:11:04 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU 

At 12:07 pm 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> 
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:
>> > I too was
>> > lucky in that I found metric to be a better unit to work with some time
>> > before it was introduced into our country.
>> 
>> Actually, I learned metric from playing Traveller as a kid. And how to
>> count in hexadecimal too (the whole concept of non-base-ten number
systems
>> really). Sure came in handy later in certain classes. While
everyone else
>> was trying to figure out the basics of the units, I could just get
on with
>> the work.  :)
>
>I learned the basics of it in school back in the 60's, when
everybody thought the US was gonna go metric.  It got reinforced in
my time in the Army.

	I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school education in
Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time with
US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not sure
I remember what a slug is ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:14:02 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...

At 09:52 am 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 08:38 PM 9/15/98 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.
Try
>firing >>> a M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes,
thick
>rubber gloves, 
>>>> and a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.
>>
>>Since when do they allow combat troops who *need* glasses?
>
>In the US Army?  Since 1777.  You can't be too blind, but with my
>uncorrected 20/60 vision I qualified as a sniper.  I went through
several
>pairs of issue "birth control" glasses (thick black plastic frames,
plastic
>lenses) while keeping a good pair of glasses for off-duty.

	They make special gas mask inserts for us blindies. The old style
fastened inside the gas mask lenses, while the newer ones are just
glasses with an elastic strap instead of earpieces.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:04:35 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Off topic question

The level of education on this list being what it is, I decided to come here
with a very off topic post:

There is a quote I would like to know the correct wording of, who said it and
when:

It says words to the effect:

"People long for immortality who can't decide what to do with a rainy Sunday
afternoon."

Can any of you folks be of assistance? Please reply to me personally to avoid
list clutter.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:20:00 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: JTAS 22

> Date:          Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:35:58 -0500
> From:          Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
> 
> Well there are TWO missing tables from JTAS 22, Table 1 was printed in JTAS
> 23, read the article it discusses TWO tables, the MISSING one has all of
> the good info in it like the penetration ratings and AM warheads.

It's gone.  I asked after the missing table some years ago on GEnie, and Loren 
replied it was no longer in their files. 


- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:38:34 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: The Sable Rose affair

>From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
>Subject: The Sable Rose affair
...
>Does anyone recall this old CT scenario published in White Dwarf 
>about twenty years ago? Any info welcome.

  What about it? IIRC, it's an INI-sponsored strike on a the backers
of some pirates operating from a stellar tech world, with the worlds'
governments implicit consent. The rationale for a covert op was to
prevent an incident that would reduce Imperial popularity on that
world.

        Steven Hudson


  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:38:42 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: PC Question

>From: Eris reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
>Subject: Re: PC Question
...
>> keyboard/mouse/monitor for $200, including a 1-year warranty. I don't >
know the size of the hard drives (depends on what the chap has in > stock).
>
>> 1) Is this a reasonable price? (Note I'm paying in Canadian dollars)
>
>Maybe.  Hum, in US$ that would be about $300, I think.

  Don't we wish. It's the other way - around $135 US. Luckily, the Imperial
Credit shouldn't be all-encompassing, so there should still be potential for
screwing characters on exchange rates...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:54:39 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #818

I miss that store...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:04:14 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tech marches on

Darkstar could possibly be the funniest SF movie I ever saw. Can it still be
rented?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:05:39 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T5 skills (was re: T4: Native Careers...)

Draft entries for T5 for Brawling and Melee

x	Brawling (Fighting)	Dex, Str
	Brawling is an unstructured hand-to-hand fighting skill. It is learned by
experience (rather than taught). The individual is familiar with the processes
of conflict resolution through violence. He has an understanding his personal
abilities and limitations when interacting violently with others.
	Personal Combat. Brawling is used in the Personal Combat process. The Task
Comment will say Opposed (N) indicating how many characters may participate (N
equals the numbers of characters). The lowest result is successful, provided
that result is a success result; all other participants fail (regardless of
the quality of their results). If no one is successful, repeat the task.

	To win a brawl.
	(Str + Brawling) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Opposed (4). Resolves the brawl in one task. 
	All losers receive 2D damage. The winner is unscathed.

	A more extended resolution of a brawl determines the loser of a specific
round. The highest result (provided that result is unsuccessful) is the loser,
receives 3D in damage, and is eliminated from the brawl. If no one is
unsuccessful, repeat the task.

	To fight one round of a brawl.
	(Str + Brawling) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Opposed (4). Resolves one round of the brawl in one task.
 
	A brawl may have any reasonable of participants, generally 2 to 6.
		Substituting Melee. Melee may be substituted for Brawling in a Brawl (two or
more people and unstructured) at one level lower Melee-4 becomes Melee-3.
	Brawling is one of three members of the Fighting skill cascade (the others
are Melee and Environmental Combat). Brawling encompasses unarmed,
unstructured hand-to-hand combat. In contrast, Melee is structured hand-to-
hand combat (boxing, wrestling, martial arts). Environmental Combat involves
fighting in High G or Zero-G, or special situations (such as underwater).
	Brawling is a default skill.

x	Environment Combat (Fighting)	Dex, Int
	The individual is trained or experienced in personal combat under unusual
environmental circumstances.
		Personal Combat. Environmental Combat is used as a modifier in the personal
combat process.
	Environmental Combat is one of three members of the Fighting skill cascade
(the others are Brawling and Melee). Environmental Combat involves fighting in
High G or Zero-G, or special situations (such as underwater). In contrast,
Melee is structured hand-to-hand combat (boxing, wrestling, martial arts).
Brawling encompasses unarmed, unstructured hand-to-hand combat.
	Environmental Combat is a default skill.

x	Fighting Cascade
	The Fighting skill cascade indicates a general familiarity with personal
combat using the hands or makeshift weapons such as clubs. Within the skill
cascade, the individual is skilled in a specific type of fighting (Brawling,
Melee, or Environmental Combat) and has a somewhat lower skill in the other
areas.
	Brawling encompasses unarmed, unstructured hand-to-hand combat. Melee is
structured hand-to-hand combat (boxing, wrestling, martial arts).
Environmental Combat involves fighting in High G or Zero-G, or special
situations (such as underwater).
		Opponent Evaluation. One aspect of a skill is the ability to evaluate a
situation and its participants and their relative ability or skill level.

	To visually evaluate skill level of a potential fighter.
	(Int + Fighting) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Result is subjects Fighting skill level(s) (+D-D)

	The result of a snap evaluation (without seeing the subject in action) is the
real skill level +/- 5 (that is, the true skill level +D - D).

	To evaluate skill level of a fighting participant.
	(Int + Fighting) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Result is subjects Fighting skill level(s) (+D-S)+ (-D+S) 	S= evaluators
Fighting skill level.

	For example, Emarq Chredian (who has Brawling-4) is watching a man in a fight
but does not know the man has Brawling-6. After success in the evaluation
task, Emarq rolls 1D (=4) -4 =0 and 1D (=5) +4= +1. Emarq evaluates the man as
Brawling-7.
	Note that this process has the greatest chance of producing an accurate
reading (17%) and is the equivalent of D-D. Evaluations of less than zero are
zero.
	The game master is responsible for determining the results of evaluations in
order to conceal the true results from the players.

x	Melee (Fighting)	Str, End
	Melee is a structured hand-to-hand fighting skill. It is learned through
instruction (rather than initially by experience). The individual is familiar
with the processes of conflict resolution through violence. He has an
understanding his personal abilities and limitations when interacting
violently with others.
	Personal Combat. Melee is used in the Personal Combat process. The Task
Comment will say Opposed (N) indicating how many characters may participate (N
equals the numbers of characters). The lowest result is successful, provided
that result is a success result; all other participants fail (regardless of
the quality of their results). If no one is successful, repeat the task.

	To win a boxing match.
	(Str + Melee) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Opposed (2). Resolves the match in one task. 
	The loser receives 2D damage. The winner is unscathed.

	A more extended resolution of a melee determines the loser of a specific
round. The highest result (provided that result is unsuccessful) is the loser,
receives 3D in damage, and is eliminated from the brawl. If no one is
unsuccessful, repeat the task.

	To fight one round of a wrestling match.
	(Str + Melee) > Difficult (2.5D)
	Opposed (2). Resolves one round of the match in one task.
 
	A melee generally has two participants and is structured. Typical Melees are
a boxing match, a wrestling match, or a judo match.
	Substituting Brawling. Brawling may be substituted for Melee in a Melee type
match (two people and structured) at one level lower. Brawling-1 becomes
Brawling-0 (which actually is of no practical value, in as much as everyone
has Brawling as a default skill).
	Melee is one of three members of the Fighting skill cascade (the others are
Brawling and Environmental Combat). Melee is structured hand-to-hand combat
(boxing, wrestling, martial arts). In contrast, Brawling encompasses unarmed,
unstructured hand-to-hand combat.. Environmental Combat involves fighting in
High G or Zero-G, or special situations (such as underwater).
	Melee is a default skill.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #823
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 17 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 824



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

rules regarding ATs and getting new skills
Re: JTAS 22
Re: Virus LIVES (?)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #820
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: GURPS Traveller Question
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821
Re: Rocketry 100
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: Bad uniform ideas...
Re: PC Question
Re: PC Question
RE: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]
Squooshy Biology
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821
MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat
Imperial Measurements (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:48:51 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: rules regarding ATs and getting new skills

A while back (sorry, Trevor, I've been busy) Trevor pointed out to me
something he noticed in the Player Manual. Basically, we've been playing
the whole AT concept incorrectly. I interpreted the rules incorrectly
when I read them, and nobody's ever checked up on me.

I suggest that everyone read the Character Improvement rules again,
especially the first two pages.

In a nutshell, here is what we've been doing wrongly:

- - you can't get an AT in a skill unless you already have at least a
level zero in that skill and you _successfully_ use that skill
- - you can decide, at ANY time during the game, that you'd like to learn
a skill. You simply declare that you're attempting to gain the skill,
and attempt the observation task. Success means you get a level of zero
in that skill, good for one use of the skill, and means you're eligible
for at AT in that skill
- - the observation task requires that you watch someone else use the
skill and, if possible, try it out yourself. Simply reading manuals is
NOT sufficient.
- - there is a maximum of two ATs per year PER SKILL
- - it is not necessary to declare ATs at the beginning of the session,
except for those ATs relating to personal characteristics (Strength,
Dexterity, etc)
- - the exact AT (if any) that is handed out at the end of the session by
me will be determined by the skill each character used that played the
greatest role in the game session. So the more you participate, the more
ATs you'll get.

Thanks go to Trevor for pointing out the errors of my ways.

Comments, as always, are welcome.
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:49:02 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: JTAS 22

cheers

	Colin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:06:52 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Virus LIVES (?)

>From: dberry@hooked.net
>Subject: Re:Virus LIVES
...
>I was under the impression from reading "Survival Margin" that the Virus
>project was a wartime inovation.  Dulinor's people had never heard of the
>research station involved, nor did it show on any of the pre-War lists.

  If you accept the existence of the project to adapt the Cymbeline
chips for use in Imperial transponders, then that facility must have
been somewhere and likely been very secret indeed. The later weapons
research could have taken place at that same location.

  Of course, it would seem strange if such a "doomsday" system were to
be developed with Strephons knowledge, as its' very mode of operating
might easily cripple the Imperium for decades or longer.

  FWIW, I'm not thrilled about the "tamper-proof" transponders, and
am very interested in seeing whether/how GURPS: Trav treats it. OTOH,
I can only conclude that some very secure (i.e., as much as practical
given the 3I's tech and resources) transponder ship ID system would
in fact be in use for security and control purposes.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:46:51 +0100
From: Julia and Chris <julia-and-chris@compute-ability.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #820

>
>If so, then we shall meet the Wave in 100 yrs or so.  And we KNOW what
>happens to the Zhodani!
>In the G:T timline there may still be an Imperium by 1205.  Imagine what
>could happen in the Marches by that time.  Will we take over some Zho
>space?  Will they invade the Marches? (CRAZY Zho psion commandoes?)  Will
>there be a very nasty 6th FW?  Who knows...
>
>Be afraid...
>
>Be VERY afraid...

In one of the Megatraveller Journals (number 4 I believe) They told usd
about wehat was due to happen to the Zhodani - they would meet the
'baddies from the core', have their psionic brains fried, and then all
the non-psis would develop some psi powers.


- -- 
Julia and Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:26:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, David J. Golden wrote:

> 	The launch tube doesn't carry vehicles, it launches them. You're
> limited to a single craft per 30min turn from a regular hangar.

The book (Starships) says that one ship can fit into each hangar. This
means that hangars do not have a drawback... and that launch tubes are
useless (if I understand correctly). Or am I wrong?

> 	If this is the SSDS rolled into the abomination known as Starships,
> the material factors are all already rolled into the calculations
> once you pick a specific TL column to use.

But the volume of the armor does not change if you change armor material,
which means that superdense results in slower (heavier) ships than
composite laminate...

I have a house rule coming up, so that is probably not a problem
anymore...

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:37:46 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> >       The launch tube doesn't carry vehicles, it launches them. You're
> > limited to a single craft per 30min turn from a regular hangar.
> 
> The book (Starships) says that one ship can fit into each hangar. This
> means that hangars do not have a drawback... and that launch tubes are
> useless (if I understand correctly). Or am I wrong?
> 
Based strictly on the information in the T4 and Starships books, I can
see why you came to that conclusion.  That is because:

1.  The SSDS in Starships assumes that each hangar space includes a
launch port.

2.  There is no discussion in either book about launch rates for each
facility.

In FF&S v2, one can build hangars with fewer lauunch ports than their
capacity would indicate.  Similarly, FF&S v2 discusses launch rates from
different facilities (pg. 14).

Bottom line:  for SSDS ships, you may as well not add launch tubes.  You
can also do without launch tubes in FF&S ships that only carry a few
utility craft.  Ships that carry a large number of small craft (i.e.,
carriers) should use launch tubes.

> >       If this is the SSDS rolled into the abomination known as Starships,
> > the material factors are all already rolled into the calculations
> > once you pick a specific TL column to use.
> 
> But the volume of the armor does not change if you change armor material,
> which means that superdense results in slower (heavier) ships than
> composite laminate...
> 
The volume of the armor _does_ change, it's just that the Volume Factor
columns assume that you are using the armor material associated with a
given TL.  (You'll notice that the TL columns for Volume Factors
correspond to the TLs for Material Type.)  Your reading of the rules
implies that TL 12 Composite Laminate ("CompLam") needs less than half
the volume for the same armor value as TL 8 CompLam.  Actually, there is
no "TL 12 CompLam", as the standard material at TL 12 is superdense.

If you wish to use obsolete armor types with SSDS, you should use the
Volume Factor associated with the TL of the armor in question. 
(Presumably, the base hull can use the Volume Factor associated with the
base hull TL, if you assume that this includes global improvements in
miniaturizaton of internal components.)

> I have a house rule coming up, so that is probably not a problem
> anymore...
> 
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> | Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
> | jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
> | ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> | IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
> |      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+
> |               In politics, left is right!               |
> +---------------------------------------------------------+

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Question

In mail you write:

>> On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> > Alas, a foot is ~3.1 decimeters.  A decimeter is a bit under 4 inches.
>> > Doesn't work well. 
>> > 
>> > I've found that 10ft = 1 meter is *more* than close enough for most

Oops! That should read "10 ft = 3 meters".

>> > purposes. (10 ft = 120 in = 304.8 cm = 3.048 m,  3.048/3 = 1.016, so
>> > it's 1.6% too big)                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
>> 
>> 10ft = 1 meter is *not* 1.6% too big, it is about three times as big, or
>> 200% bigger than it should be. I do not understand why you divide by three
>> in your calculation.

See above.

>> 3ft is about 0.9 meters, which is a quite good approximation. When
>> roleplaying (only occassion where I encounter Imperial measurements) I use
>> 1ft = 0.3 meters, which is very close to the real value.

1 foot = .3 meters is *exactly* the same as 10 feet = 3 meters, which
was what I intended to type. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:33:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821

In mail you write:

> 1 meter equals 3.25 feet, so it would be much easier to say 2 meters equals
> 5 feet.  Then you wouls only be off by 1/2 foot.

I assume that you meant *6* feet. :-)

And 2m = 6 feet is off by 9%. 3m = 10 feet is only off by 1.6%.

BTW, IIRC the "nautical mile" is now defined in *metric*! 

For those who don't know such things, the nautical mile is supposed to
be roughly equal to one minute of arc on the Earth's surface. That's
about 6076 feet or 1851 meters. This is useful for navigational
purposes. 

Even more trivia. If you try that on Mars, you get roughly one km!

So I can see the Third Imperium having a "mile" as a unit that's tied to
planetary size! :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:17:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> In space the blast effects from nukes are virtually non-existent. 
>
> You see, almost all the energy (99%? more?) in a nuke comes out in the
> form of soft X-rays. In an atmosphere, these get absorbed within a few
> meters by the *air*. Said air gets superheated and creates both the
> "thermal flash" and the blast wave.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I thought a properly constructed nuke in space could give you a
> Hard-X-ray blast that would travel nice, and give you kinetic-like
> effects (blast wave) when hitting nice hard things like starship hulls.

*If* the surface it strikes absorbs X-rays well, you'll get
vaporization and other energy transfer. The problem is that due to the
inverse square law, the nuke has to be at almost point-blank range
(less than a kilometer away) or the energy flux (joules per sq. meter)
is too low.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:20:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

In mail you write:

>         I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school education in
> Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time with
> US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not sure
> I remember what a slug is ...

One of those slimy critters crawling in the garden, you know, snails
with out shells, the official Oregon state mollusc! :-)

Seriously, a slug is the mass that accelerates at one foot per second
per second when one pound of force is applied to it. 

The "other" unit is the poundal. Which is the force required to
accelerate a pound *mass* by one ft/sec^2.

(and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if I have the above backwards).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:25:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...

In mail you write:

> At 09:52 am 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 08:38 PM 9/15/98 PST, you wrote:
>>>In mail you write:
>>>
>>>>> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.
> Try
>>firing >>> a M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes,
> thick
>>rubber gloves, 
>>>>> and a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.
>>>
>>>Since when do they allow combat troops who *need* glasses?
>>
>>In the US Army?  Since 1777.  You can't be too blind, but with my
>>uncorrected 20/60 vision I qualified as a sniper.  I went through
> several
>>pairs of issue "birth control" glasses (thick black plastic frames,
> plastic
>>lenses) while keeping a good pair of glasses for off-duty.
>
>         They make special gas mask inserts for us blindies. The old style
> fastened inside the gas mask lenses, while the newer ones are just
> glasses with an elastic strap instead of earpieces.

Pennywise, pound-foolish. They really ought to break down and issue
"sports glasses" to troops. You know, the ones with the flexible frames
that kind of "wrap around" your head. The big advantages are that
first, they don't get in the way. Second, since they too use a strap,
they can't fall off. Third, they actually correct your *peripheral*
vision. And fourth, they keep crud out of your eyes, because they seal
to your face a bit like safety goggles. 

Sure, they cost more. But they are less likely to get broken or lost,
and you can always gig the soldier if they *do* get broken or lost and
he can't adequately justify the loss. Plus, as noted above, they make
him more effective.

I wonder what the Imperial equivalent situation is? Not correcting the
vision of soldiers with sub-standard vision?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:54:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: PC Question

In mail you write:

> Our A/V tech has found a place where I can buy a 486 with 16m RAM and
> keyboard/mouse/monitor for $200, including a 1-year warranty. I don't know
> the size of the hard drives (depends on what the chap has in stock).
>
> Questions: 
>
> 1) Is this a reasonable price? (Note I'm paying in Canadian dollars)

If the monitor is at all decent, and the HD isn't a joke, yeah.

> 2) What are the system requirements for running a nice simple development
> environment? (For those of you that want PC versions of Infini-V, QSDS,
> IGS, Metator...)

Good question.

> 3) How much extra will a nice development environment run me?  Ideally I'd
> like Visual Pascal, except I don't think anyone makes it :-(

It's called "Delphi". :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:55:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: PC Question

In mail you write:

> Rob Prior wrote:
>  
>> Our A/V tech has found a place where I can buy a 486 with 16m RAM and
>> keyboard/mouse/monitor for $200, including a 1-year warranty. I don't > 
> know the size of the hard drives (depends on what the chap has in > stock).
>
>> 1) Is this a reasonable price? (Note I'm paying in Canadian dollars)
>
> Maybe.  Hum, in US$ that would be about $300, I think.

Nope. Canadian dollars are worh *less* than US. 
CND$200 ~= US$150

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 05:54:55 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)

This has made me think about putting a small newsletter out on my 
website.  Anyone out there itching to write some short articles??  
Canon, non-canon, gearhead, maybe a deckplan as well.  Lemme know!!



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:03:28 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:11:04 -0600
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

At 12:07 pm 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I learned the basics of it in school back in the 60's, when
everybody thought the US was gonna go metric.  It got reinforced in
my time in the Army.

	I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school education in
Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time with
US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not sure
I remember what a slug is ...
================================

Don't feel bad, as an engineer, I've seen units in use that should'nt 
even be in use anymore!  Slugs, <choke, gasp> another of those horrid, 
utterly contrived units!       =0



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:04:00 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]

Regarding Glasses in the 3I:
>
>I wonder what the Imperial equivalent situation is? Not correcting 
>the vision of soldiers with sub-standard vision?
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>

I'd have to say that glasses as glasses would be rare in high tech 
society.  I'm not sure they would even exist any more, except for 
special circumstances.  With the current tech we have, some eye problems 
can be corrected with laser surgery.  I think that would continue, 
ultimately to having eye-ball replacement (cyborg or not).

At TL 12-15, I would think that most vision impairment can be corrected, 
even blindness at the upper levels.  Glasses may be temporary 
corrections (injury, healing time, whatever), or may be enhancements: 
HUD for pers 'puter, IR, magnification, whatever....

And the women Marines called the Buddy Holly glasses "RPGs":  Rape 
Prevention Glasses.  Pissed me off that when they finally came back in 
style in the 80s that the US military finally got around to the brown 
horn-rimmed glasses that had been so in in the 70s...
 
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:09:39 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Squooshy Biology

"David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> writes:
>I'm still not sure
>I remember what a slug is ...

It's a slimy critter about six inches long, coloured black or bright
orangy-yellow, that squooshes ickily between your toes when you take a
barefoot walk on the lawn at sunrise.

That trigger any memories?  :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:30:07 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821

From:           	shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date sent:      	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:33:34 PST

> In mail you write:

> BTW, IIRC the "nautical mile" is now defined in *metric*! 

Not exactly (see below), it is however expressed in metric now because it has 
become the standard system for navigation. IIRC the US is now the only nation 
which doesn't use the SI system.

> For those who don't know such things, the nautical mile is supposed to
> be roughly equal to one minute of arc on the Earth's surface. That's
> about 6076 feet or 1851 meters. This is useful for navigational
> purposes. 

Theres's no "roughly" about it. 1nm _is_ 1 arc minute of latitude (measured at 
latitude 0 IIRC).

> Even more trivia. If you try that on Mars, you get roughly one km!

> So I can see the Third Imperium having a "mile" as a unit that's tied to
> planetary size! :-)

I think that given the overall size of the Imperium, its SI units would be based 
upon some physical constant independent of any world (such as the ring/ray 
coordinate system). Maybe a fixed division of the circumferance of the galaxy? 
or the distance from Sylea to the galatic core?

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:38:46 -0400
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat

Let me do a worked example based solely on the rules as presented in
MegaTraveller (p 68-74).

Say we have Billy with a UWP of AAA---, hits 4/7, Brawling-2, (fist pen:1,
block:1, dam:1) who is wearing nothing (AC1).
Say we have Betty, with a UWP of 777---, hits 3/5, a Dagger-2 (pen:2,
block:1, dam:2), who is wearing a Flak Jacket (AC3).

Billy swipes at Betty. He needs to make a Routine roll (7+) to determine if
he gets a chance to attack. This is modified by his Dex (+2) and her Dex
(-1). So he will get the chance 15 times in 36.
To actually hit, he needs to make a simple roll (3+) modified by his weapon
skill (+2), Str (+2), and her block (-1). As his penetration (1) is less
than her armor (3) he only does 10% of normal damage (.1). But if he rolls
well, he does double damage for every 2^n he rolls above. So the twelve
damages he can do are:
 2 + 3 -> 5 (auto miss)
 3 + 3 -> 6  x2 damage -> .2 -> 1 (min)
 4 + 3 -> 7  x4 damage -> .4 -> 2 (min)
 5 + 3 -> 8  x4 damage -> .4 -> 2 (min)
 6 + 3 -> 9  x4 damage -> .4 -> 2 (min)
 7 + 3 -> 10 x4 damage -> .4 -> 2 (min)
 8 + 3 -> 11 x8 damage -> .8 -> 4 (min)
 9 + 3 -> 12 x8 damage -> .8 -> 4 (min)
10 + 3 -> 13 x8 damage -> .8 -> 4 (min)
11 + 3 -> 14 x8 damage -> .8 -> 4 (min)
12 + 3 -> 15 x8 damage -> .8 -> 4 (min)
So if he rolls a 4 or better he will do at least 2, knocking off most of
Betty's 3 hits. If he rolls a 8 or better he will do 4, knocking Betty out.

Betty swipes at Billy. she needs to make a Routine roll (7+) to determine
if he gets a chance to attack. This is modified by her Dex (+1) and his Dex
(-2). So she will get the chance 10 times in 36.
To actually hit, she needs to make a simple roll (3+) modified by her
weapon skill (+2), Str (+1), and his block (-1). As her penetration (2) is
more than twice his armor (0) she does full damage (2). And if she rolls
well, she does double damage for every 2^n he rolls above. So the twelve
damages she can do are:
 2 + 2 -> 4 (auto miss)
 3 + 2 -> 5  x2 damage -> 4
 4 + 2 -> 6  x4 damage -> 8
 5 + 2 -> 7  x4 damage -> 8
 6 + 2 -> 8  x4 damage -> 8
 7 + 2 -> 9  x4 damage -> 8
 8 + 2 -> 10 x8 damage -> 16
 9 + 2 -> 11 x8 damage -> 16
10 + 2 -> 12 x8 damage -> 16
11 + 2 -> 13 x8 damage -> 16
12 + 2 -> 14 x8 damage -> 16
So if she rolls a 3 she will do 4, rendering Billy unconscious (3 hits). If
she rolls anything higher she will do at least 8, outright killing him (3
hits to unconscious, 5 more to death).

Two questions:
1) Is all the above correct according to the rules as presented? Am I
missing something. I didn't think that exceptional damage applied to
hand-to-hand but I can't find somewhere that says it.

2) What modifications to the system have people used, specifically for hand
to hand?

[Please, no advocacy replies about other Traveller or made up systems. Just
mods to MT, thanks.]

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:16:31 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Imperial Measurements (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821)

Andrew Moffatt-Valance wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think that given the overall size of the Imperium, its SI units would be based 
upon some physical constant independent of any world (such as the ring/ray 
coordinate system). Maybe a fixed division of the circumferance of the galaxy? 
or the distance from Sylea to the galatic core?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Due to stellar motion, the distance from Sylea to the galactic core
changes daily by kilometers...unless "galactic core" is a fuzzy area,
in which case you've got a fuzzy baseline to calculate your SI units
from. The Diameter of the galaxy is a similarly fuzzy figure, as the
galaxy doesn't end on a dividing line - it peters out over hundreds of
parsecs.

You need a much smaller baseline if you're going to generate
small SI units (Meter, Liter, Gram range equivalents) from it.
It should also be something that can be generated anywhere,
allowing people all across the Imperium to fine-tune their measuring
units when extremely high precision is needed (scientific purposes,
for example).

The current example of tieing the lenght of a meter to a certain
wavelength of light comes to mind - I'm certain the Imperium could
come up with other easily-repeatable natural phenomena to base
volume, temperature, pressure and mass units on.

The 3i will probably base these units on whatever the Syleans were
using, or perhaps the Terrans of the 2i. It's also possible that, in
keeping with the 3i's styling as an empire of space, the Emperor
would define an Imperial system of measures based on physical
properties of things used in space travel. A wavelength of a particularly
efficient laser beam. A quantity of Iridium, or Lanthanum. The amount
of energy it takes to move a 100tn ship into Jump-1 space. 

One thing about an Imperial system of measurements - it's a great
political and propaganda tool. Just like an Imperial calendar - the
Imperium can demand that you use Imperial ways to measure
things, every time you measure something with an Imperial meter
you symbolically acknowledge the Imperium's supremacy. If your
calendar, your breakfast cereal, the speed of your communter train,
the size of your lunchtime soda pop are all measured by Imperial units,
it becomes more and more normal for you to think of the Imperium's
dominance as almost a physical constant - you may think of changing
your planet's government, but you'd never think of trying to make the
Imperium go away.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #824
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 17 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 825



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
earlier post: rules regarding ATs
TL-8 freighter: a slightly different approach
Re: Bad uniform ideas...
Transponders
Vision correction in the 3I
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #823
Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #824
Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
Re: Vision correction in the 3I
re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
Re: TL-8 freighter: a slightly different approach
Re: PC Question
Re: The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles
Re: Tech marches on
Re: Bolos (again)
Re: Off topic question
Darkstar movie (Was Re: Tech marches on)
Re: T5 skills
Imperial Units of Measure? (WAS: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #823

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:25:41 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

David J. Golden wrote:

>         I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school education in
> Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time with
> US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not sure
> I remember what a slug is ...

Yeesh and you're one of the AUTHORS of FFS2. A slug is the little bit of metal
moving at you at high speed, silly. Either that or it's the slimy thing you
step on after a rainstorm.

Now, do you want the definition of a chain or a perch? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:16:02 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: earlier post: rules regarding ATs

Sorry about posting that earlier message about the AT rules. I meant to post
that to my internal mailing list of my players. That's what I get for having
'Traveller Mailing List' and 'Traveller Players' next to each other in my
address book.

Erwin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:09:39 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: TL-8 freighter: a slightly different approach

This NTR design exceeds the specs (20 dtons cargo, 9 month trip time...)

"Europa Clipper" Class TL-8 Freighter
(Bruce Macintosh)

Statistics:			
Tons: 8100std ( AF Med Cylinder Hypersonic )          Crew: 3/5    
Cargo: 20std (0/1 /Hdl:1x1ton0)
Volume: 113400m3          Passengers High/Med: 0/20   Cost: 557.102 MCr
Mass (L/C): 9404t/8991t	  Passengers Low: 0	      Maintenance Points: 532
Dimensions: 83.5m x 41.4m x 41.4m		      Size:9 
Hull armour [0] 1. Hull stressed for 2 G.

Controls: Electronic Linked, High automation. 1xComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67).
    2xFibComp (CM:0.6 CP:1.67). Terrain following sensors (TF:360, NOE:120). 
     Bridge (Ar:20[80]).				
Communications: 2xRadio Rec. (1,000AU, 0.02MW). 1xRadio (1,000AU, 0.2MW). 
                3xLaser (1,000AU, 0MW). 				
Sensors: 1xSci Pas. Scanner (13 [5mkm] Sci, 0.04MW). 
         1xSci Pas. Scanner (12.5 [5mkm] Sci). 
         2xSci Pas. Tracker (13 [5mkm] Sci, 0.02MW). 
         1xSci AEMS (10 Sci, 1.25MW). 
         1xSci LIDAR (13.5 [50kkm] Sci, 0.1MW). 				
Signatures: Vis:1, IR:-0.5 (-0.5 at 14MW), Act:0.5, Neu:-1, Grav:-2				

Performance:
0.05 G maneuver (Advanced NTR)
7700 tons (0.556 G-hours, 20 km/s delta-V) fuel
Fuel scoops
14 MW Fission Power Plant, 5 years duration (4 MW power shortfall)
64 MW-hours batteries


Features:
25 Large Staterooms  *
Sickbay  (5 MW)      *
Gymnasium            *
Machine Shop (2 MW)
Electronics Shop (0.6 MW)
Full Galley          *
Extended-duration life support (1.8 MW)
1500 person-weeks normal rations
3000 person-weeks meagre rations
30 x Cramped seats in armoured radiation shelter adjacent to bridge.
Sickbay cannot normally be operated at full power at the same time as
the shops and AEMS unless batteries are used.
Collapsible Europa specimen module installed in cargo hold on return trip.

Crew: 1xManeuver, 1xElectronic/Science, 1xEngineer/Maintenance, 1xMedical, 1xSteward

Items marked with * are located in spin capsule.

Notes: The "Europa Clipper" frieghters were designed by the European Space
Agency in 2020 to make the run between Earth orbit and the ESA scientific base 
studying life in Europa's ocean. By contrast to their American ion-drive
counterparts, they could make the trip in only 9 months. A typical mission
profile consisted of leaving Earth orbit (3.7 km/s delta-V), accelerating
to cruise speed (14 km/s delta-V, plus Earth's orbital velocity for an
initial cruise velocity of 44 km/s), coasting to Jupiter while being decelerated
by solar gravity (arrival velocity at Jupiter 22 km/s), followed by a close
jupiter pass with a brutal ~20-25 km/s aerobraking, a close Ganymede or
Callisto pass (~2-3 km/s), leaving the ship in an elliptical Europa transfer
orbit with 3 km/s of fuel for the final rendezvous. The return launch window
opens ~1 month after arrival at Europa and follows a similar pattern with
a slightly-less-brutal Earth aerobraking. The streamlined hull is braced to
survive 2G decelleration in this process, and the crew and passengers are
confined to the radiation shelter near the bridge during the passage through
Jupiter's radiation environment. Clipper crews referred to the dangerous
Jupiter pass as "Rounding Cape Horn" (the Earth pass was "Rounding Cape
Hope"); the clipper "Star of England" was lost in 2029 on its third such
pass, and two crew members on the "Star of France" recieved lethal radiation
doses in 2033 when they were required to leave the shelter to repair the
main drive. These risks were considered acceptable, as living specimens from
Europa's ocean could generally only be preserved for ~8-10 months on
shipboard conditions; during the fifteen year period that the Clippers operated
before the development of fusion drives, they returned over four hundred living
Europan organisms to Earth. 

Designer's Notes: The delta-V calculations were approximate - I don't have
enough time to lay out the whole Jupiter arrival scenario in detail - but there's
a margin in the ship's delta-V and aerobraking sufficient that I'm reasonably
sure it will work. I felt that I had to invent a sufficient reason for going
to all this effort to support a Europa base - hence the assumption of life
under Europa's ice and the need to rapidly return living specimens for study
faster than the ion-drive ships can generally manage. (The bulk of the 
outgoing cargo to support a base should still go by ion drive, of course.) 
Aside from being efficient, the aerobraking adds a nice dramatic touch to
any operations with this ship. 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:05:12 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...

At 06:14 PM 9/16/98 -0600, you wrote:

>	They make special gas mask inserts for us blindies. The old style
>fastened inside the gas mask lenses, while the newer ones are just
>glasses with an elastic strap instead of earpieces.

The old glasses were worse than useless.. imagine having your glasses
bouncing around the end of your nose and over your cheeks with sharp ends.
I never got the newer style, but if I were still in I'd probably invest in
a set of perscription goggles to wear at all times in the field.

- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Transponders

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
>   FWIW, I'm not thrilled about the "tamper-proof" transponders, and
> am very interested in seeing whether/how GURPS: Trav treats it. OTOH,
> I can only conclude that some very secure (i.e., as much as practical
> given the 3I's tech and resources) transponder ship ID system would
> in fact be in use for security and control purposes.

Not to start a new Flame War or anything...

I just want to point out (and forgive me if someone already has said this
long before), that transponders aren't a necessity of spaceflight. As far
as I know, there aren't any spacecraft with transponders in them on our
planet, and if you want to go to the commercial aircraft model, yes there
are transponders, but they are far from tamper-proof. You don't see 747s
and space shuttles suffering for this 'vulnerability'.

If you want to go to the seagoing vessel model (which I have come to think
is the best model for Traveller ships - IMTU) then you don't see ANY
transponders at all, or even much effort at tracking the vessels in their
movements (other than individual nations protecting their coastlines).
Sure it is possible to steal a ship, refit it, remove ID numbers, and use
or sell it in another part of the world with forged documentation, BUT
such an enterprise would take a LARGE amount of money, planning,
knowledge, and expertise to pull off.

Sure, a tamper proof transponder would prevent that, but does it happen
often enough for it to be worth the effort to have tamper-proof
transponders?

I can see local systems requiring transponders from regular local traffic
above a certain size, or on ships that are registered there as the 'home
port' (especially subsidized merchants). If you visit several systems
regularly, maybe they have agreed on a standard, or maybe you have several
different transponders -- like having multiple licence plates on trucks
that move regularly between different states in the US. You can turn them
on and off at will, and each system will have their own manufacturers.

IMTU, transponders are a convenience for traffic control, and nothing
more.  I just don't see the critical need for Imperium-wide standard
transponders on every vessel - at least not enough to justify the expense
and difficulty in such an endeavor. Most ships will not visit more than a
handful of systems anyway, much less move to a completely different area
of the imperium.

Certainly IMTU, Imperial military ships will have standard transponders,
because it is part of their design, as will scouts, but not EVERY
starship. It just isn't worth it (IMHO).

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html   

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:18:07 -0600
From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Vision correction in the 3I

Certainly in current medical tech, we have corrective surgery (both by knife
and laser).  I know there have been experiments to prevent myopia with liquid
drops put in the eyes of youngsters who are likely to develop it (I was in such
a trial).  If you watched the Wrath of Kahn, McCoy gives Kirk glasses and sort
of apologizes for not being able to correct his vision with a simple injection.
Of course with genetic manipulation, you could fix such problems before an
embryo was even begun, but the 3I doesn't seem to do much of that.
I suspect that by Average-Stellar tech levels there wouldn't be an issue about
eyesight except for the few with specific allergies or physical damage of an
exceptional sort.

- - Joseph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:31:00 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #823

Black Ice wrote:    Do you have a URL?

If you want ot know if I have an e-mail address the answer is yes.  If you
want to know if I have a web page the answer is no.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Greg Smith wrote:
> 
> I'd have to say that glasses as glasses would be rare in high tech 
> society.  I'm not sure they would even exist any more, except for 
> special circumstances. 

Not necessarily. I could have surgery to correct my vision at current tech
levels, but I have not. Primarily because it costs money and I can't
afford it. I don't see eye surgery ever getting to the point where it is
truly "cheap", and as long as glasses are available, it will be considered
'elective surgery'.

Granted, some worlds will offer universal health care, and people will get
the surgery. Others will not, and some people will wear glasses.

There's a clear picture of a character wearing glasses in the T4 rulebook.

IMHO,
Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:41:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Black ICE wrote:

> Bottom line:  for SSDS ships, you may as well not add launch tubes.  You
> can also do without launch tubes in FF&S ships that only carry a few
> utility craft.  Ships that carry a large number of small craft (i.e.,
> carriers) should use launch tubes.

OK... I understand now. I cannot wait to get FF&S  :-)

> The volume of the armor _does_ change, it's just that the Volume Factor
> columns assume that you are using the armor material associated with a
> given TL.  (You'll notice that the TL columns for Volume Factors
> correspond to the TLs for Material Type.)  Your reading of the rules
> implies that TL 12 Composite Laminate ("CompLam") needs less than half
> the volume for the same armor value as TL 8 CompLam.  Actually, there is
> no "TL 12 CompLam", as the standard material at TL 12 is superdense.

AHA!!!! I SEE NOW!!!!

*sound of head hitting table*

Now I understand... thank you... I used the volume factors based on
techlevel only, and then selected hull material after that... in that
case, I do not really have to select a hull material, do I? Unless I wish
to minimize armor cost...

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:43:39 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #824

Jens
     You can fit one ship into one hanger and it takes one turn to launch
it. Carriers on the other hand have one hanger for every fighter, or one
very huge hanger, and with the launch tube can launch a significantly
larger number of ships.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:48:09 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington

In the latest Honor Harrington Novel, "Echoes of Honor", fractional-c
bombardment is mention in passing, along with the reason that no-one uses it.

It seems that it is the one thing that will rouse the Solarian League into
action.  After the destruction of Epsilon Eridani, they wrote it into their
constitution.  Indiscriminately bombard civilian worlds, and the entire
universe will hunt you down like dogs.

BTW: If you haven't read the HH books yet, go forth and do so.  Now.  "On
Basilisk Station" is the first.  I'll wait.

ObTrav: While the sheer size and power of the Imperium makes it hard to
imagine them worrying about any threat of sanction, perhaps there are arms
control treaties that make indiscriminate bombing a War crime recognized by
all the signatories.  In a situation like the Frontier Wars, where neither
side can really expect to conquer the other, but are fighting for limited
goals, having such accords in place would be most advantageous.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:17:52 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Vision correction in the 3I

At 09:18 AM 9/17/98 -0600, you wrote:

>I suspect that by Average-Stellar tech levels there wouldn't be an issue
about eyesight except for the few with specific allergies or physical
damage of an exceptional sort.

For the Imperial Marine costume I'm working on, I'm explain my glasses as
being "the result of a wound, the regen therapy hasn't had time to work
completely."









                                                         
>
>
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:32:53 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ObTrav: While the sheer size and power of the Imperium makes it hard to
imagine them worrying about any threat of sanction, perhaps there are arms
control treaties that make indiscriminate bombing a War crime recognized by
all the signatories.  In a situation like the Frontier Wars, where neither
side can really expect to conquer the other, but are fighting for limited
goals, having such accords in place would be most advantageous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We have a couple of examples of Zhodani forces worrying about 
diplomatic niceties, even in the course of conflict. Being nice enough
to deliver a formal declaration of war, refraining from indiscriminate use
of psi-powers or force against an Imperial  archeological expedition
during the 5thFW (a JTAS scenario).

Since the Zho were probably fighting all the Marches wars as part of
a grand strategy of isolation and containment of the Imperium, it
makes sense for the Zho to play by rules of war intended to keep the
Impies from getting too pissed off.

btw - I can't find my copy of Aslan - what pre and post 5th FW relations
existed between the Hierate and the Consulate? I can't even recall the
Aslani stance on psionics.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:46:26 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington

'Echos of Honor', the new Honor Harrington book, is available for preview at
the Baen book website.

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!
- -----Original Message-----
From: dberry@hooked.net <dberry@hooked.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 9:42 AM
Subject: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington


>In the latest Honor Harrington Novel, "Echoes of Honor", fractional-c
>bombardment is mention in passing, along with the reason that no-one uses
it.
>
>It seems that it is the one thing that will rouse the Solarian League into
>action.  After the destruction of Epsilon Eridani, they wrote it into their
>constitution.  Indiscriminately bombard civilian worlds, and the entire
>universe will hunt you down like dogs.
>
>BTW: If you haven't read the HH books yet, go forth and do so.  Now.  "On
>Basilisk Station" is the first.  I'll wait.
>
>ObTrav: While the sheer size and power of the Imperium makes it hard to
>imagine them worrying about any threat of sanction, perhaps there are arms
>control treaties that make indiscriminate bombing a War crime recognized by
>all the signatories.  In a situation like the Frontier Wars, where neither
>side can really expect to conquer the other, but are fighting for limited
>goals, having such accords in place would be most advantageous.
>--
>
>+-------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
>|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    |
>+-------------------------------------+
>| "I created the universe; give ME    |
>|  the gift certificate!!"            |
>|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
>+-------------------------------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:14:45 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: TL-8 freighter: a slightly different approach

>
> Performance:
> 0.05 G maneuver (Advanced NTR)
> 7700 tons (0.556 G-hours, 20 km/s delta-V) fuel

Quick question... what's an NTR?
And was that fuel included in the ship mass? 7700 vs. ~9000 tons.
If so you've got a much more complicated acceleration/deceleration formula
since 80% of your mass gets used up.

Also, how long do you accelerate before coasting?

On a different note, but still relating to the problem.  I was thinking along the lines
of this:
Break the problem down into two vectors.  You need to decelerate from 20 km/s to 14 km/s
in orbital velocity.  You also need to cover a radial distance equal to about 4.2 AU.
Your high orbital velocity from Earth will help accelerate you to Jupiter.  By
definition that orbital acceleration equals solar gravity at Earth's orbit.  Beyond
Earth's orbit, that orbital acceleration is greater than solar gravity thus helping you
to Jupiter.  Thus you want to keep this orbital velocity as long as you can because its
helping.  Working backwards, you can figure out where you need to start breaking for
Jupiter orbit.  Figure out how long it takes to decelerate from 20 km/s to 14 km/s at
whatever acceleration your ship is capable of.  Then take into account rotational
inertia and gravity to figure out what radial distance you need to break.  Then you
apply that same acceleration + rotational inertia + Gravity to figure out your rollover
point.  This makes a one way trip with two course changes.  Accelerate to maximum radial
velocity.  Rollover to decelerate to zero radial velocity.  Turn 90 degrees to
decelerate to proper orbital speed.

For the return trip, high orbital speed hinders you, so you accelerate to orbital speed
at the end and let gravity pull you in.  The return trip may involve a close pass by the
sun.

I haven't run these numbers yet but it feels right to me.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:14:19 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: PC Question

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Maybe.  Hum, in US$ that would be about $300, I think.
> 
> Nope. Canadian dollars are worh *less* than US.
> CND$200 ~= US$150

Ok, Ok! I got it backwards, but at least I know that it's 10 ft ~ 3
meters! ;->

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:00:51 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles

At 08:32 PM 9/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know if the book
>
>  The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles was published?
 
Yes.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:28:34 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Tech marches on

At 00:04 17/09/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Darkstar could possibly be the funniest SF movie I ever saw. Can it still be
>rented?
>
I reckon so, because you can buy it for 5 if you are ok with PAL VHS tapes.

Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:38:41 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)

Garry Ward posted:
>
> Recently found a 4 volume set of short stories oriented around Keith
> Laumer's Bolos.  

Just an FYI, a Bolo design for MT was included in the "lost" vehicle 
files. Here it is again for referee amusement and PC terror. ;-)

Continental Defense Unit TL15

     The  CDU mounts two starship class fusion gun turrets in addition  to
a 
large  array  of smaller weapons primarily intended for defense.   With its 
thick armor and good active defense, the CDU is proof against almost
anything 
short  of  a starship meson gun battery.  Very few have ever actually been 
built, due to the difficulty of transport, and public mistrust of an
unmanned 
device so potentially destructive.

  CraftID: Continental Defense Unit, TL15, MCr494.12
     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=4USL, Armor=80G, Loaded=25335t
    Power: 21/34, Fusion=3600MW, Dur=22/66
     Loco: 216/360, Tracks, P/W=126, Road=270kph, Offroad=108kph
     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System, MaserComm=System
  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive(Far Orbit), EMSJammer(Far Orbit), 
           EMSPassive(Interstellar), HighPenDensitometer(1km), Neutrino
           Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
           PassObjScan=Routine, PassObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple,
           PassEnPin=Routine
      Off: Hardpoints=4

                      Pen/          Max    Auto   Dngr
                      Attn    Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
2*2 Fusion Gun (ship) 103/5   900   Planet  -      45     H     30
8*1 RPY-15 Fusion Gun  71/5    30   Region  2      45     H     40
20*1 50MW Beam Laser   55/4   100   Region  2       -     H     40

      Def: Point Defense Targeting for all weapons
  Control: Robot Brain (Int 12, Ed 23), DynLink*25, electronic circuit 
           protection
    Accom: None
    Other: Fuel=963,000l, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Faint
           Robotic skills=HighEnWpns-5, LaserWpns-5, Tactics-5, TrackVeh-5,
           Commo-5, ArmoredCombat-5

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:48:58 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic question

Loren Wiseman, GURPS Traveller guru, requested:
>
>There is a quote I would like to know the correct wording of, who said it
and
>when:
>
>It says words to the effect:
>
>"People long for immortality who can't decide what to do with a rainy
Sunday
>afternoon."

Well, it's certain none of *these* people are on the TML. We all _know_
what to do with a rainy Sunday afternoon. (hint: begins with a "T", ends
with an "r")

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:53:28 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Darkstar movie (Was Re: Tech marches on)

Sethkimmel@aol.com posted:
>
> Darkstar could possibly be the funniest SF movie I ever saw. Can it
> still be rented?

Heck, you can *buy* it for under $20US. Just saw multiple copies of
it last night at a video store in a mall. It was touted as being
remastered back to the way the creators wanted it (I didn't know it
had been changed).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:06:18 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: T5 skills

CardSharks@aol.com posted:
>
>	Environmental Combat is one of three members of the Fighting skill
cascade
>(the others are Brawling and Melee). Environmental Combat involves fighting
in
>High G or Zero-G, or special situations (such as underwater).

Marc,

The above definition is a concern of mine because, AFAIK, combat in
in zero-g requires different reflexes and movements than a high-g
environment. In my mind, a character performing a forward roll in 0g
will keep on rotating if he doesn't straighten out or interact with
another object. Performing a forward roll in, say, a 2.5g-3g environment
could result in strained muscles for someone who is non-athletic. As
another example, say a PC tries to snatch something off a surface below
him and misjudges the distance, smacking his hand on the surface. In a
0g environment, he'll go bouncing up, I believe, with a bruised hand.
In a high-g environment, wouldn't there be an increased chance of 
breaking something?

I've always made Env. Combat a cascade requiring a specialization in
either Hi-G, 0G, or Underwater. Just a thought.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:07:28 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Imperial Units of Measure? (WAS: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821)

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
<<snip>>
> 
> > So I can see the Third Imperium having a "mile" as a unit that's tied to
> > planetary size! :-)
> 
> I think that given the overall size of the Imperium, its SI units would be based
> upon some physical constant independent of any world (such as the ring/ray
> coordinate system). Maybe a fixed division of the circumferance of the galaxy?
> or the distance from Sylea to the galatic core?
> 
Or, as a possible alternate standard, using a standard frequency's
wavelength as the base unit.  (ISTR that there are current units of
measurement that do so....)

If one chooses the frequency wisely, one can get a useful unit of
measure (say, about 1 meter in length, which, IIRC, was the approximate
wavelength of early radars).  

> Andrew etc.
>   a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
>   http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
> IMTU Code
>   tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
>   kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge
> 
> ************************************************************
>   Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
> ************************************************************

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:12:09 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #823

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
> Black Ice wrote:    Do you have a URL?
> 
> If you want ot know if I have an e-mail address the answer is yes.  If you
> want to know if I have a web page the answer is no.
> 
> Leo

Sorry, I should have been more precise.  Do you have the URL from which
you downloaded the spreadsheet?  If so, can you post it (the URL, not
the spreadsheet) to this mailing list?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #825
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 18 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 826



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T5 skills
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #825
Re: Bolos (again)
Re: TL-8 freighter
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]
Re: SSDS questions (T4)
re: Vision
Pronounciation
Re: Bolos (again)
Re: TL-8 freighter
Re: Pronounciation
Re: Transponders
Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
re: Vision
Re: TL-8 freighter
Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]
Re: Off topic question
Re: Transponders
RE : Vision correction in the 3I

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:46:53 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T5 skills

Smart, David J (David) wrote:

> I've always made Env. Combat a cascade requiring a specialization in
> either Hi-G, 0G, or Underwater. Just a thought.

Wouldn't Underwater and 0G be very similar?  I realize they are not
identical, but since NASA puts the astronauts underwater to simulate
micro-G, IMO, they are close enough for government work.

Your points are well taken  MT has ZeroG and HiG.
However, the skill is only available in T4.1 to the agent, merchant,
army, navy, marine, and rogue careers.  Careers in which it is
somewhat likely to encounter, and train for, both environments.
I can't think of a situation in which a character would train in one
and not the other (unless he was stuck in one envirnoment
indefinitely).

I think your solution of a cascade skill is good.
But I think a broad Environmental Combat is fine as well. And in
the interest of keeping the skill list down, I would keep it as is.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:49:09 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #825

Web site address of a very good ship construction spreadsheet, that even
includes the ability to build weapons for your ships and it adds them to
the spreadsheet.  This little baby even includes all of the alternate FTL
drive systems.

     http://members.aol.com/travelrtne/main.htm

Enjoy.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:52:18 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)

At 04:38 PM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
><SNIP>
>
>Just an FYI, a Bolo design for MT was included in the "lost" vehicle 
>files. Here it is again for referee amusement and PC terror. ;-)
>
>Continental Defense Unit TL15
>
>     The  CDU mounts two starship class fusion gun turrets in addition  to
>a 
>large  array  of smaller weapons primarily intended for defense.   With its 
>thick armor and good active defense, the CDU is proof against almost
>anything 
>short  of  a starship meson gun battery.  Very few have ever actually been 
>built, due to the difficulty of transport, and public mistrust of an
>unmanned 
>device so potentially destructive.
>
>  CraftID: Continental Defense Unit, TL15, MCr494.12
>     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=4USL, Armor=80G, Loaded=25335t
>    Power: 21/34, Fusion=3600MW, Dur=22/66
>     Loco: 216/360, Tracks, P/W=126, Road=270kph, Offroad=108kph
>     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System, MaserComm=System
>  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive(Far Orbit), EMSJammer(Far Orbit), 
>           EMSPassive(Interstellar), HighPenDensitometer(1km), Neutrino
>           Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
>           PassObjScan=Routine, PassObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple,
>           PassEnPin=Routine
>      Off: Hardpoints=4
>
>                      Pen/          Max    Auto   Dngr
>                      Attn    Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
>2*2 Fusion Gun (ship) 103/5   900   Planet  -      45     H     30
>8*1 RPY-15 Fusion Gun  71/5    30   Region  2      45     H     40
>20*1 50MW Beam Laser   55/4   100   Region  2       -     H     40
>
>      Def: Point Defense Targeting for all weapons
>  Control: Robot Brain (Int 12, Ed 23), DynLink*25, electronic circuit 
>           protection
>    Accom: None
>    Other: Fuel=963,000l, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Faint
>           Robotic skills=HighEnWpns-5, LaserWpns-5, Tactics-5, TrackVeh-5,
>           Commo-5, ArmoredCombat-5
>
>
>
>

Good, a model to work from. According to the tech notes, Marks XX, XXIII and
XXiX were all dual Hellbore main guns. Most secondaries were Laser, breech
loading morters and vertical launch missiles.

Yeah, a bolo is very good amusement. 

Garry 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:14:23 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: TL-8 freighter

>Quick question... what's an NTR?

Nuclear Thermal Rocket - a rocket that uses a fission pile to heat reaction
mass (liquid hydrogen) as exhuast. The TL-8 advanced NTR may have some kind
of exotic reactor design (pellet bed, for example) but the principle is
similar. Lousy thrust-to-weight, high fuel efficiency.

>And was that fuel included in the ship mass? 7700 vs. ~9000 tons.
>If so you've got a much more complicated acceleration/deceleration formula
>since 80% of the fuel gets used up

Quite true. The delta-v= Ve*ln(MF) formula which appears in the FFS2 errata
(in a slightly disguised form) takes this effect into account - it's 
essentially the result of doing the integral as the ships mass change.
Andrews' spreadsheet incorporates this formula. 

The ship accelerates at about 1.8 km/s/hour, so the initial earth-escape
burn is about ten hours, and the final decelerration to match with Europa
is about an hour. (If the acceleration were any lower one would no longer
be in the "impulsive regime" and you'd have to worry about more complex
calculations of escape velocity.) 

>Working backwards, you can figure out where you need to start breaking
>Jupiter orbit.
The ship actually uses almost no fuel to match velocity with Jupiter;
that all comes from aerobraking (a painful experience for the crew, I 
might note...) At the end of the aerobraking it's in an ellipitcal Jupiter
orbit that grazes Europa's circular orbit - the remaining fuel is use dto
match velocity with Europa.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:32:21 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

At 11:26 am 9/17/98 +0200, you wrote:
>> 	If this is the SSDS rolled into the abomination known as
Starships,
>> the material factors are all already rolled into the calculations
>> once you pick a specific TL column to use.
>
>But the volume of the armor does not change if you change armor
material,
>which means that superdense results in slower (heavier) ships than
>composite laminate...

	*Huh?*  Trust me, for the same armor VALUE, the volume does indeed
change if you change the armor material. If it doesn't, you're doing
something wrong. Trust me, I created the tables for SSDS. I also
wrote the text that wound up getting printed, actually. IG was
supposed to take my text as rough notes and clean them up, but that's
another story.

	Look at any of the hull tables. I'll use Needle configuration, on
p78. Under the column heading Volume Factor you'll notice four
subcolumns for different TLs. Those TLs correspond to different
materials. Notice the factors get smaller and smaller as the TLs go
up. Higher TL materials require less volume for the same armor
protection. Therefore superdense results in FASTER (lighter) ships
than composite laminate. If you get ANY other results, I can try to
explain the design sequence better.

>I have a house rule coming up, so that is probably not a problem
>anymore...

	No house rule should be needed; the rules as written handle it
already. However, like I mentioned earlier, my text was never
supposed to be published, it was only supposed to serve as a guide
for the IG person writing it. So it may not be the clearest thing in
the world, for which I most profoundly apologize. *I* knew what I was
talking about because I was familiar with FF&S1. I wouldn't be
surprised if some of my notes saying "<Ed: you need to discuss
such-and-so here. It's on pX of FF&S>" were still in there when they
printed it.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:20:54 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

At 11:20 pm 9/16/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>         I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school
education in
>> Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time
with
>> US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not
sure
>> I remember what a slug is ...
>
>One of those slimy critters crawling in the garden, you know, snails
>with out shells, the official Oregon state mollusc! :-)
>
>Seriously, a slug is the mass that accelerates at one foot per
second
>per second when one pound of force is applied to it. 

   Err ... I guess I AM wrong, then. I thought slug was defined in
terms of gravitational acceleration (32.2 ft/s^2)... But I'm too lazy
to go look it up. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with it!
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:26:40 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

At 07:25 am 9/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>David J. Golden wrote:
>
>>         I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school
education in
>> Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time
with
>> US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not
sure
>> I remember what a slug is ...
>
>Yeesh and you're one of the AUTHORS of FFS2. 

	And that's why I used metric ... so much more rational. This country
can be amazingly jingoistic and ass-backwards sometimes ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:24:46 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]

At 06:04 am 9/17/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Regarding Glasses in the 3I:
>>
>>I wonder what the Imperial equivalent situation is? Not correcting 
>>the vision of soldiers with sub-standard vision?
>>
>>-- 
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>>
>
>I'd have to say that glasses as glasses would be rare in high tech 
>society.  I'm not sure they would even exist any more, except for 
>special circumstances.  With the current tech we have, some eye
problems 
>can be corrected with laser surgery.  I think that would continue, 

	Specifically, at our TL most "normal*" vision problems are
correctable now. The FDA recently approved the excimer laser for
far-sightedness; it was already approved for nearsightedness and
astigmatism (or a combination). Now US citizens don't have to travel
to Canada for farsightedness.

	'Course, they don't *guarantee* 20/20 vision as a result ... but
since when have you ever seen a surgical procedure without a mile of
warnings and disclaimers? They also can't yet do anything about the
natural aging effect of the lens hardening, which leads to the need
for reading glasses.

* By normal I mean nearsightedness, farsightedness, and/or
astigmatism within a certain range. 
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:28:53 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions (T4)

At 05:41 pm 9/17/98 +0200, you wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Black ICE wrote:
>> The volume of the armor _does_ change, it's just that the Volume
Factor
>> columns assume that you are using the armor material associated
with a
>> given TL.  (You'll notice that the TL columns for Volume Factors
>> correspond to the TLs for Material Type.)  Your reading of the
rules
>> implies that TL 12 Composite Laminate ("CompLam") needs less than
half
>> the volume for the same armor value as TL 8 CompLam.  Actually,
there is
>> no "TL 12 CompLam", as the standard material at TL 12 is
superdense.
>
>AHA!!!! I SEE NOW!!!!
>
>*sound of head hitting table*
>
>Now I understand... thank you... I used the volume factors based on
>techlevel only, and then selected hull material after that... in
that
>case, I do not really have to select a hull material, do I? Unless I
wish
>to minimize armor cost...

	Exactly! We were trying to make it as simple as possible, by rolling
all the volume factors together. When you pick TL, you *have* chosen
a material. If you want to choose a different material, you have to
actually pick the corresponding TL.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:49:30 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Vision

David J. Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
	Specifically, at our TL most "normal*" vision problems are
correctable now. The FDA recently approved the excimer laser for
far-sightedness; it was already approved for nearsightedness and
astigmatism (or a combination). Now US citizens don't have to travel
to Canada for farsightedness.

	'Course, they don't *guarantee* 20/20 vision as a result ... but
since when have you ever seen a surgical procedure without a mile of
warnings and disclaimers? They also can't yet do anything about the
natural aging effect of the lens hardening, which leads to the need
for reading glasses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Speaking of Excimer eye surgery:

Anyone read John Krakaur's _Into Thin Air_, about the nine climbers
who died on Everest in spring of '96?

Krakaur mentions a climber who was blinded at the most dangerous
part of the high altitude ascent. The climber had undergone laser
surgery for myopia - and the weakened lenses failed under the
cold, thin-air conditions. He made it back, and his eyes eventually
got better. Lucky him - Everest kills a certain percentage of people
who venture above 20,000 feet, it had been several years since
anyone died, the statistics caught up all at once.

ObTrav: Travellers are exposed to all sorts of atmospheres, from thin
to dense to all kinds of taints. This could be a bad surprise to pull
on someone who got his nearsightedness fixed on a TL8 world just
before travelling to another planet.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:12:33 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Pronounciation

 jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)

>Loren, for a variety of odd reasons, I need the "official"
>pronunciation of the acronym for the SJG Generic Universal Role
>Playing System.  A couple of my friends are arguing about it, and
>the reasons they're giving for their preferred pronunciation can
>both be considered valid.
>
>So, are you the line manager for "GURPS Traveller", with a hard
>"G" as in "Gull", or for "jurps Traveller", with a soft G as in
>"Generic"?
>- --
Jeff ,

Hard G, rhymes with "burps"

Sehtkimmel asks:
>Is it me (being a hypercritical prick) or are there other people wondering
why
>the barroom drawing shows a solitary K'Kree standing at the bar, next to a
>bunch of Vargyr? My canon-o-meter is going off...

Try the snooze button on the side...

Quite simple: he's one of those dangerously insane K'kree you've all heard
tell about...and the Vargr are statues made of texturized soy protein and
lecht...lecat...leciti...licorice.

Rob Prior:
>What measurement units are used in GURPS Traveller, SI or American?
>
>(This is a major question for me. If I have to convert everything to/from
>the SI units we normally use to American units, the game may well be more
>trouble than it's worth for me.)

I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
etc). Overseas translations use metric. 
 
LKW

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:00:16 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)

Garry Ward wrote:
> 
<<snips description of Bolo CSU>>
> 
> Good, a model to work from. According to the tech notes, Marks XX, XXIII and
> XXiX were all dual Hellbore main guns. Most secondaries were Laser, breech
> loading morters and vertical launch missiles.
> 
> Yeah, a bolo is very good amusement.
> 
> Garry

Well, you know what they say:

"You may have Claymores and Dragons, but we have Bolos and Ogres!"

[on-topic portion] Imagine the enthusiastic cries of joy your players
would have, upon being asked to take out a Virus-infected Bolo or
Ogre....  >;-)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:08:24 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: TL-8 freighter

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

> >Quick question... what's an NTR?
>
> Nuclear Thermal Rocket - a rocket that uses a fission pile to heat reaction
> mass (liquid hydrogen) as exhuast. The TL-8 advanced NTR may have some kind
> of exotic reactor design (pellet bed, for example) but the principle is
> similar. Lousy thrust-to-weight, high fuel efficiency.
>

That sounds like the Daedalus Thermonuclear Pulse Drive which I thought was TL
9 and thus unavailable. Maybe that changed when T4 came out.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:36:54 +1000
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@vision.net.au>
Subject: Re: Pronounciation

>>What measurement units are used in GURPS Traveller, SI or American?
>
>I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
>etc). Overseas translations use metric.


<plant tongue in cheek>

So, is there any chance GURPS Traveller will be translated to English?

</plant tongue in cheek>

=)

Cheers,
Jason

- -----------
Jason Anderson, <midnight@kagi.com>
<http://www.antcrc.utas.edu.au/~jason_ga/bms>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:55:53 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

>From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
>Subject: Transponders
...
>> I can only conclude that some very secure (i.e., as much as practical
>> given the 3I's tech and resources) transponder ship ID system would
>> in fact be in use for security and control purposes.
...
>I just want to point out (and forgive me if someone already has said this
>long before), that transponders aren't a necessity of spaceflight. As far
>as I know, there aren't any spacecraft with transponders in them on our
>planet, and if you want to go to the commercial aircraft model, yes there
>are transponders, but they are far from tamper-proof. You don't see 747s
>and space shuttles suffering for this 'vulnerability'.

  The canonical 3I (and essentially all RW historical examples) has a
distinct interest in "security (and control?)" of certain assets. A
transponder-based traffic regime functions for the state in a similar
way that the pilots vacc suit works for her/him/it - it's a safety
device, hopefully unnecessary but very nice to have anyway.

  One difficulty with rough analogies of Traveller transportation
technologies is that starships aren't like trains/trucks/boats/e-mail,
etc. - what they are is FTL spacecraft of a very similar nature to the
warships of the age.

  If airliners (or tramp steamers) were occasionally used to level cities
in our world then one can assume that security measures would be upgraded
(e.g., the White House & US embassies over the last ~20 years, Mathias 
Rust, etc.,...). IIRC, El Al supposedly had quite extensive (and probably
very expensive, too) ECM/EW on its' airliners.

  I see the issue as whether a state can or will adopt a transponder ship
ID system for security and control purposes; it seems fairly easy to do
and maintain (within the limitations of FTL message speed) given any sort
of desire to optimize security (including external) concerns.

        Relativistic Slugs (tm)* - Reach Out and Torch Someone!

 * as distinct from relativistic snails or frozen fish, which due to
rigidity issues cannot be recommended for uses beyond hypervelocity
anti-armour shot. Don't try this at home!

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:14:42 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington

>From: dberry@hooked.net
>Subject: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
...
>ObTrav: While the sheer size and power of the Imperium makes it hard to
>imagine them worrying about any threat of sanction, perhaps there are arms
>control treaties that make indiscriminate bombing a War crime recognized by
>all the signatories.  In a situation like the Frontier Wars, where neither
>side can really expect to conquer the other, but are fighting for limited
>goals, having such accords in place would be most advantageous.

  Apparently such a situation would have very good historical precedents
(although the 20th century is a _bad_ background from which to come for
this purpose). I was skimming the taxation related sections of a recent
book on the century of French warfare ending in 1715 (Harris?) and it
went into great detail on the extraordinary levies (cash or in kind)
imposed on both friendly* or enemy territories during wartime.

 *after a year of this they pretty much all classed as "hostile", though.

  This is pretty much expected, but what is a bit novel to those raised
on total war philosophies was the practice of extorting moneys from 
vulnerable enemy territory in exchange for not raiding them, and then
further treating this as a valid contractual relationship for the authorities
of both sides, including the post-war payment of any balances outstanding
at the cessation of hostilities.

  If one assumes (not unreasonably) that this behaviour was due in large
part to the parties unwillingness to force the devastation of some of their
own most productive (and revenue providing) population concentrations, then
this model could logically be extended to the Marches of the Frontier Wars:
the limited war aims of the major powers involved requires that certainly
no major planet(and possibly none?) suffer significant collateral damage
to civilians from the use of proscripted weapons (CBN, frac-C rocks?) or
the indiscriminate/excessive use of allowed weapons (carpet-bombing with
"allowed" tac-nukes or using meson guns to pave the planet)*.

  Presumably these interstellar rules (not to be confused with the so-
called Imperial Rules of War) also dictate that the neutralization of 
the regular military defenses requires a surrender to be made; this 
would somewhat explain the spinal PA rule.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:37:17 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re: Vision

At 08:49 pm 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>David J. Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>	Specifically, at our TL most "normal*" vision problems are
>correctable now. The FDA recently approved the excimer laser for
>far-sightedness; it was already approved for nearsightedness and
>astigmatism (or a combination). Now US citizens don't have to travel
>to Canada for farsightedness.
>
>	'Course, they don't *guarantee* 20/20 vision as a result ... but
>since when have you ever seen a surgical procedure without a mile of
>warnings and disclaimers? They also can't yet do anything about the
>natural aging effect of the lens hardening, which leads to the need
>for reading glasses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Speaking of Excimer eye surgery:
>
>Anyone read John Krakaur's _Into Thin Air_, about the nine climbers
>who died on Everest in spring of '96?
>
>Krakaur mentions a climber who was blinded at the most dangerous
>part of the high altitude ascent. The climber had undergone laser
>surgery for myopia - and the weakened lenses failed under the
>cold, thin-air conditions. He made it back, and his eyes eventually

	Would you happen to remember *which* type of surgery he had? I'd
believe that of Laser Radial Keratotomy--the radial incisions can,
IIRC, be up to 80% of the thickness of the cornea. PRK and LASIK are
much more benign ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:40:50 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TL-8 freighter

At 10:08 pm 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>> >Quick question... what's an NTR?
>>
>> Nuclear Thermal Rocket - a rocket that uses a fission pile to heat
reaction
>> mass (liquid hydrogen) as exhuast. The TL-8 advanced NTR may have
some kind
>> of exotic reactor design (pellet bed, for example) but the
principle is
>> similar. Lousy thrust-to-weight, high fuel efficiency.
>>
>
>That sounds like the Daedalus Thermonuclear Pulse Drive which I
thought was TL
>9 and thus unavailable. Maybe that changed when T4 came out.

	Nope. Daedalus Thermonuclear Pulse Drive is just that--Pulse. Small
pellets of dueterium (usually) are ejected behind the ship, and
zapped with a bunch of lasers or electron beams, causing a miniature
fusion explosion.

	NTR is completely unrelated--a fission reactor provides heat; the
working fluid flows over the reactor bed, is vaporized, and then
released through an otherwise normal rocket nozzle to generate
thrust. The main difference between a chemical rocket and an NTR is
how the working fluid is heated--the chemical rocket does it through
a combustion reaction between fuel and oxidizer, the NTR uses the
fission pile to heat the propellant.

	At one time there was a research program to build an NTR-propelled
cruise missile (Project Pluto, IIRC).
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:08:57 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]

I am lucky enough to still have 20/20, but if I didn't I would always wear
contacts and have spares and a spare pair of glasses) on me. I saw an FBI
training film (later made into a TV movie) of an infamous South Florida
shootout. A senior agent (who I think if memory serves me right was an expert
shooter and/or firearms instructor) was killed because he lost his glasses
early in the fight and couldn't see the bad guys. It upset me greatly. If he
had a spare set of sport glasses in his pocket, it might have saved him. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:23:54 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Off topic question

This is blashphemy, but Traveller is my second favorite thing to do on a
Sunday afternoon....smirck :-) I have to be a lecherous old goat...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:44:13 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

Yeah; El Al takes their security seriously. It's alleged that they have
Milspec chaff and flare launchers on their airliners (I wish we did that...),
and they have armed skymarshals on board (or their equivilent). If that is the
case, I hope they carry Glaser safety slugs, Explosive decompression sucks....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:27:29 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE : Vision correction in the 3I

Interesting thread.

TL 6 : cataract surgery (general anaesthetic, prolonged admission)
          contact lenses.

TL 7 : cataract surgery (local anaesthetic block, day surgery)
          Reconstruction following vitreous humour leaks.
          Glue for retinal detachments.
          Plastic spectacle lenses.

TL 8 : plastic based antibiotic inserts to prevent or treat endophthalmitis, laser surgery
[ranging from cornea re-shaping to repairing bleeding retinas].
Disposable contacts.
Tint-control lenses (darken with increased light intensity).

TL 9 : nerve refusion - however not always successful for damage to the
eyes or spinal cord - too many nerves compared to a mixed peripheral
nerve, say.
Regrowth technology permits corneas and lenses to be grown from a sample
of a patient's tissue. Requires implantation surgery.

TL 10 : Growth quickening reduces the time taken to grow a new lens,
etc. to days instead of weeks.
Tissue can be manipulated in situ by local injection of protein
machines.

TL 11 : artificial eyes, either bionic or prosthetic. Nerve refusion
problem has been solved for the optic nerve and spinal cord.

Above TL 11 : PRIS (portable EMS scanner) glasses ?  PRIS
cyber-eyeballs?

Note that ambulatory regeneration is not available until TL 13 (from
articles in the Traveller's Digest) - you need to be hooked up to
infusion pumps, etc. and be under medical supervision until then.

Sorry, I'm blathering.

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #826
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 18 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 827



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: measurement systems in G:T
RE: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #823
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat
Re: Traveller = +1 EDU
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821
Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]
Re: T5 skills
Re: TL-8 freighter
Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
Re: Squooshy Biology
TL 6-8 planetary defence (was rocketry 100)
Nuclear power (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:43:08 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: measurement systems in G:T

>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
>Subject: Pronounciation
...
>Rob Prior:
>>What measurement units are used in GURPS Traveller, SI or American?
...
>I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
>etc). Overseas translations use metric. 

  Will there be an English language SI version (for the UK, Oz, etc., 
presumably) available in North America? I'd want it just for the sake
of not having to convert.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:32:37 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: RE: Lament of a Devout Traveller (where are the zines?)

> This has made me think about putting a small newsletter out on my 
> website.  Anyone out there itching to write some short articles??  
> Canon, non-canon, gearhead, maybe a deckplan as well.  Lemme know!!
I'd be more than happy to submit some stuff and will forward it in 
Email direct.
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:49:22 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #823

> Black Ice wrote:    Do you have a URL?
> 
> If you want ot know if I have an e-mail address the answer is yes.  If you
> want to know if I have a web page the answer is no.

Leo, he want's to know where to get the spread, and the answer is:
http://www.ee.tut.fi/+AH4-lahtinen/traveller/
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:19:09 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

To put some of this into perspective I have been doing a few claculations.
These are based upon a number of sources, but primarily the 'Nuclear
Weapons Frequently Asked Questions' by Carey Sublette available at
(http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew) or as a 700k zip document.  I am not a
physicist, (I am a philospher with an an interest in hard science who did a
year of engineering many moons ago - so I probably have a lot of this ass
about):

In an atmostsphere about 35-45% of the energy of the explosion is produced
as Thermal radiation, 60-50% as blast, and 5% as radiation.

In space 95% and maybe more is expended as soft x rays, and the remainder
are approximately 1% neutron radiation and 4% Gamma radiation.  This energy
is released in about 100 nanoseconds. One kt  has an energy of 4.19x10^12
joules or 10^12 calories.  The radiation decreases according to the inverse
square law in space, and is not hindered there by atmoshere.

Suppose a 1MT device explosed 5km from a spacecrft.  The area of a sphere
at that distance is 4pi.r^2 which is 
3.14x10^8m^2  The energy expands in a sphere I think, and the energy of a
1Mt bomb is 1000x4.19x10^12 joules = 4.19x10^15 joules  The amount of
energy per square meter is thus 4.19x10^15/3.14x10^8 = 1.33x10^7j/m^2.
Only 5% is gamma rays or neutrons so this reduces the penetrating radiation
to 6.67x10^5 j/m^2.  Now I have to pluck some figures from the air.
Suppose a man is 1m^2  If he is considered in a vaccum he absorbs (suppose)
all of that 6.67x10^5 j. Since one rad is .01J/Kg, and we take a typical
man to weigh 75 Kg, he absorbs 889145.62 rads.  Rems equal the product of
rads and the RBE (radiation biological effect) which in the case of gamma
rays is '1' and for neutons is  between '1' and '20' ( '1' for immediate
effect, 4-6 for delayed catarct function, 10 for cancer effect, and 20 for
lukemia effect) We will use a value of 1.  Our victim has thus suffered
889145.62 REMs.  400-600 rems will kill you in 2-12 weeks, 600-1000 in 1 to
4 weeks, above 1000 death in hours and so on some may last up to several
days, above 5000 rems  will result in a coma within seconds to minutes. 
Our chap is obviouslt toast.  These figures are 50 time higher for a 50 MT
weapon, and at 50 km for a !Mt weapon they are 100 times less, for a 1MT
weapon at 500km they are 10 000 times less.  This approcimates to :

Range(km)   yield(Mt)   rems             rems including long term effects
of neutrons(RBE =20)
5              1         889145.62              4267899
5              50        44457281               2.13394x10^8
50             1         8891.4562              42678.99
50             50        444572.81              2.13394x10^6
500            1         88.914562              426.7899
500            50        4445.7281              21339.4

Okay, all this shows is that , considering only the gamma and neutron
radiation , an exposed man is toast, since the soft x rays would increas
these values by two orders of magnitude, he would be much sicker!
 Now suppose our chap is in a vac suit with an AV of 1 (FF&S1)  He is safe
from all that nasty soft x-ray stuff, but how well is he shielded from the
serious penertrating radiation?  It needs about 8.4-11 cm of steel or 28-41
cm of concrete to reduce the radiation to a tenth of what it was.  And here
again I must speculate wildly... The primary issue for radiation
penetration is the density of the material being passed through (not
hardness), with two caveats: some very dense materials are particulalry
sucespitble to radiation, they can infact icrease the yield, depleted
uranium for example; some materials attract neutrons and are use in
cladding (Boronic plastic), and control rods, Cadmium, Boron, Carbon(?).
If our suit is made of BSD, it is 1/28 of a cm thick and a density of twice
that of steel (15:8) It would reduce radiation by gamma and neutron
radiation by 1/28x2/10 or sod all.  The same goes for starship hulls.  a
ship rated to 2Gs has a minimum armour value of 20.  Many ships have an AV
of 28.  Such a vessel has an equivalent thickness in steel of 28/28x2/10 =
.2, so would not reduce the effects of radiation significntly.  For
radiation protection an enormously heavy shell is required, and or the use
of (presumably) very expensive Boronic plastics.  All these greatly add to
the cost of a starship.
It is true the serious ships with armour in the hundreds or higher will
suffer because they can expect (AV 560) 560/28x2/10 a 10,000 fold reduction
in effects.

Other considerations:
I have no idea (go materials engineers!) what the effects of the absorbtion
of the total energy across the spectrum might be on the material of the
Hull.  If ships have a black globe up the effects could be interesting
(work/time = power).  Ships with sophisticated emm suits may absorb a lot
more radiation than they would like.  The effects on sensors I have no idea.
Finally this ignores the difficulty of getting the warhead in the required
spot.  I hope to have a 'workble' set of rules for use with BL soon, but I
have not yet finished the details.  I will post these for your comment next.

I would appreciate any input.

cheers,
	Colin

I 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:25:01 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote

> Let me do a worked example based solely on the rules as presented in
> MegaTraveller (p 68-74).

> Say we have Billy with a UWP of AAA---, hits 4/7, Brawling-2, (fist 
> pen:1, block:1, dam:1) who is wearing nothing (AC1).
> Say we have Betty, with a UWP of 777---, hits 3/5, a Dagger-2 (pen:2,
> block:1, dam:2), who is wearing a Flak Jacket (AC3).

First you need to determine if either have Tactics skill (pg 66).  Then
you neeed to determine if the party acting first has surprise.

"Difficult, Leader, Recon (confrontation) (task difficulty may vary w/
terrain type)"

  The party with the largest Tactical pool (the most levels of Tactical
skill) will have the initative.

[The Players Manual does not mention this but IIRC somewhere it says
that if the Tactical Pools are the same size (IE both sides have Tactics
0 in theis brawl) that Dex may be the next determining factor, so your
notion that Billy (Dex A) is acting before Betty (Dex 7) may be correct.

The party with the initative gets to go first.  However MegaTraveller
combat uses the _interupt_ (pg 67).  Using an interrupt you can take
your action in the middle of the other players turn.

"To interrupt another units turn: Routine, Movement Speed (safe).
Referee; If this task is successful, it becomes the interrupting unit's
turn.  The interrupted unit's turn is considered spent for the combat
round.  A failed interrupt roll dosen't count as a spent turn.  Ignore
mishaps."

[Note that Movement Speed is not defined here. Does it means their
_current_ Movement Speed or their racial Maximum Movement Speed?  I have
always interpreted it as meaning their racial Maximum Speed.]

So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able to
interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the time]. 
If shew successfully interrupts she gets to take her action and he has
lost his action.  If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go after
him & cannot suffer a mishap.

LESSON - _Always_ let the other party go first and then interrupt them. 
If you go first they will interrupt you (probably sucessfully) and you
will loose your action.  If you let them go first you will be able to
interrupt them (probably sucessfully) and they will then loose their
action.  You can _not_ suffer any mishaps or loose your action by trying
and failing to interrupt.

If either Betty or Billy are Vargr [Racial Speed 4] they will be able to
interrupt on a 3+ [35 out of 36 or 97.22% of the time.]

This Interrupt rule as it stands is possibily a bit broken.  I would
suggest making Interrupting Difficult, making the task no longer safe,
letting the interrupted party take their action after the interrupt, or
some combination of these. 

[Combat example snipped]

> So if she rolls a 3 she will do 4, rendering Billy unconscious (3 
> hits). If she rolls anything higher she will do at least 8, outright 
> killing him (3 hits to unconscious, 5 more to death).

Not necessarily - see pg 75 Assessing Dammage.  After Combat you roll
1d6 for each dammage point done and assign these points (randomly) to
Strength, Dexterity, and Endurance. [If a stat has been reduced to zero
by previous wounds it cannot take further dammage so dammage should be
randomly assigned to the other (nonzero) charecteristics. However in MT,
unlike in T4, dammage points do not roll over onto other stats so if a
die of dammage takes a stat to say negative 3 those 3 points of dammage
are effectively not suffered as the stat can not be reduced below 0.] If
the wound was caused by Psionic Assault the dammage is assigned to INT,
EDU, and SOC.

"If the charecter was not dead, do not allow all three charecteristics
to go to zero.  If the charecter was not unconscious do not allow any
charecteristic to go to zero."  But the rules do not say that if the
number of dice would have killed an unimportant NPC with the same life
force that the PC has to die.

So if Betty does 8 points of dammage to Billy with her dagger but each
die rolled comes up low Billy may walk away with only flesh wounds.  For
example I once had a PC (Sir Sigrid Ottawa UPP 89B---) live through a 16
dice of dammage attack (quadruple dammage from a shotgun pellet blast)
because when those 16 dice were rolled for dammage they rolled low and
only did 27 points of dammage reducing her UPP to 030---.  This
qualified as serious wounds but with the aid of some fast drug &
regeneration therapy (the DM said that 16 dice of dammage from a shotgun
at close range, mostly to Endurance meant that she did not have a heart
left & they had to grow her a new one) she was totally healed in 2 days
(60 days subjective to her).

> Two questions:
> 1) Is all the above correct according to the rules as presented? Am I
> missing something.
 
You were missing the Interrupt, which is the key element of MT combat,
but your depiction of the combat itself seems to be correct to me.
  
> I didn't think that exceptional damage applied to
> hand-to-hand but I can't find somewhere that says it.

The rules state {MT Players pg 71] that if the task roll (including
DM's) exceedes the roll needed for success.  It does not say except in
hand to hand combat, therefore QED it means _all_ combat, including HTH.

- -- 
Peter Newman		pnewman@alaska.net

"Laissez-nous faire, laissez-nous passer.  Le monde va de lui-mme."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:22:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller = +1 EDU

In mail you write:

> At 11:20 pm 9/16/98 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>         I was lucky enough to receive my elementary school
> education in
>>> Europe (Germany) ... I had (and still have) a dickens of a time
> with
>>> US units beyond simple inches/feet/miles/gallons. I'm still not
> sure
>>> I remember what a slug is ...
>>
>>One of those slimy critters crawling in the garden, you know, snails
>>with out shells, the official Oregon state mollusc! :-)
>>
>>Seriously, a slug is the mass that accelerates at one foot per
> second
>>per second when one pound of force is applied to it. 
>
>    Err ... I guess I AM wrong, then. I thought slug was defined in
> terms of gravitational acceleration (32.2 ft/s^2)... But I'm too lazy
> to go look it up. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with it!

You could be right. Then again, even by *my* definition, a slug is
related to the pound by gravitational accel. After all, one pound
*force* is one pound *mass* times 32.16 ft/s^2. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:25:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #821

In mail you write:

> From:                   shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Date sent:              Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:33:34 PST
>
>> In mail you write:
>
>> BTW, IIRC the "nautical mile" is now defined in *metric*! 
>
> Not exactly (see below), it is however expressed in metric now
> because it has become the standard system for navigation. IIRC the US
> is now the only nation which doesn't use the SI system.

>> For those who don't know such things, the nautical mile is supposed to
>> be roughly equal to one minute of arc on the Earth's surface. That's
>> about 6076 feet or 1851 meters. This is useful for navigational
>> purposes. 
>
> Theres's no "roughly" about it. 1nm _is_ 1 arc minute of latitude (measured 
> at latitude 0 IIRC).

>> Even more trivia. If you try that on Mars, you get roughly one km!
>
>> So I can see the Third Imperium having a "mile" as a unit that's tied to
>> planetary size! :-)
>
> I think that given the overall size of the Imperium, its SI units
> would be based upon some physical constant independent of any world
> (such as the ring/ray coordinate system).

You misunderstood my idea. I was proposing that for surface
navigational purposes a "nautical mile" equal to 1 arc minute on the
planetary equator might be used. 

> Maybe a fixed division of the circumferance of the galaxy?  or the
> distance from Sylea to the galatic core?

The circumference of the galaxy is not measurable, because, unlike a
planet, it doesn't have a fixed edge. The edge of the galaxy is like
the edge of the atmosphere. They both just fade out gradually. 

Likewise, determining *where* the center of the galaxy is is next to
impossible, to say nothing of measuring distances from it. 

It'll be even *harder* if the astronomers are right and we've got a
giant black hole in the galactic core.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:33:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Vision [was: Bad uniform ideas...]

In mail you write:

> I am lucky enough to still have 20/20, but if I didn't I would always wear
> contacts and have spares and a spare pair of glasses) on me. I saw an FBI
> training film (later made into a TV movie) of an infamous South Florida
> shootout. A senior agent (who I think if memory serves me right was an expert
> shooter and/or firearms instructor) was killed because he lost his glasses
> early in the fight and couldn't see the bad guys. It upset me greatly. If he
> had a spare set of sport glasses in his pocket, it might have saved him. 

I'm lucky. While my vision is really bad, the problem is mostly
astigmatism. Which means that while I'd have to climb up the poles to
read street signs, I can see people, cars, etc quite well, they are
just lacking *details*. And for "center of mass" shots, I'd do just
fine without my glasses.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:54:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: T5 skills

In mail you write:

> Smart, David J (David) wrote:
>
>> I've always made Env. Combat a cascade requiring a specialization in
>> either Hi-G, 0G, or Underwater. Just a thought.
>
> Wouldn't Underwater and 0G be very similar?  I realize they are not
> identical, but since NASA puts the astronauts underwater to simulate
> micro-G, IMO, they are close enough for government work.

Not really. Underwater teaches you about the "no weight" bit fairly
well. What it *can't* teach you is the "no resistance" part.

Try to turn a screw and you turn in the opposite direction. Ok, that
sort of works in the underwater simulator. Now bump something with your
arm and it (or you) going drifting off *and keep going*. That *doesn't*
happen in the simulator. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:58:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TL-8 freighter

In mail you write:

> Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>
>> >Quick question... what's an NTR?
>>
>> Nuclear Thermal Rocket - a rocket that uses a fission pile to heat reaction
>> mass (liquid hydrogen) as exhuast. The TL-8 advanced NTR may have some kind
>> of exotic reactor design (pellet bed, for example) but the principle is
>> similar. Lousy thrust-to-weight, high fuel efficiency.
>>
>
> That sounds like the Daedalus Thermonuclear Pulse Drive which I
> thought was TL 9 and thus unavailable. Maybe that changed when T4
> came out.

No. The "pulse" drives use fusion of small pellets (or big bombs, in
the Orion) to provide a series of pushes. We can't build the little
ones, and aren't allowed to build the big ones. 

The NTR uses the LH2 as coolant in a reactor running *very* hot. So hot
that the exiting LH2 is hotter than the exhaust from the Space Shuttle
main engines. And, being all hydrogen, rather than water vapor, you get
better performance from the same mass of fuel. The higher temp gives
even more.

We built several test NTR systems in the mid 60s, but none ever flew.
The last version tested was essentially the same as what would have
flown, except for the layout. 

This sort of thing is also called NERVA, from that old program.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:36:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington

In mail you write:

> In the latest Honor Harrington Novel, "Echoes of Honor", fractional-c
> bombardment is mention in passing, along with the reason that no-one uses it.
>
> It seems that it is the one thing that will rouse the Solarian League into
> action.  After the destruction of Epsilon Eridani, they wrote it into their
> constitution.  Indiscriminately bombard civilian worlds, and the entire
> universe will hunt you down like dogs.

Actually, fractional c bombardment is at least alluded to in "The Honor
of the Queen". 

> BTW: If you haven't read the HH books yet, go forth and do so.  Now.  "On
> Basilisk Station" is the first.  I'll wait.

Better yet, they released a *special* edition of "On Basilisk Station"
that is priced at only $1.99! (Of course they did this the month
*after* I bought my copy).

Also, please don't say much about "Echoes of Honor" some of us can only
afford paperbacks.

> ObTrav: While the sheer size and power of the Imperium makes it hard to
> imagine them worrying about any threat of sanction, perhaps there are arms
> control treaties that make indiscriminate bombing a War crime recognized by
> all the signatories.  In a situation like the Frontier Wars, where neither
> side can really expect to conquer the other, but are fighting for limited
> goals, having such accords in place would be most advantageous.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:47:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Squooshy Biology

In mail you write:

> "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net> writes:
>>I'm still not sure
>>I remember what a slug is ...
>
> It's a slimy critter about six inches long, coloured black or bright
> orangy-yellow, that squooshes ickily between your toes when you take a
> barefoot walk on the lawn at sunrise.
>
> That trigger any memories?  :-)

Six inches? You must live where they send the rejects from Oregon. I've
*seen* 8+ inch banana slugs and heard reliable reports of 12 inchers. 

ObTrav: Just how big do you suppose slugs could get on a low grav
planet? And how well will the more squeamish players deal with being
told that their character is trapped in his sleeping bag by the weight
of the slug munching on the outer covering? :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:46:10 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: TL 6-8 planetary defence (was rocketry 100)

There have been some good ideas in this thread, eg. Leonard Erickson's
H-bomb claymore.

Questions :-
1. Over tech levels 6 to 8, can we even see an incoming spacecraft if
we're not looking at
the exact patch of sky it jumps into (from a planetary surface, given
that there's an every growing list of near-Earth objects, for example) ?

2. In a more space travel oriented culture of TL 7+, nuclear thermal and
ion propulsion may even things up somewhat. Neighbouring bodies to the
mainworld probably have bases on them, and there may be space colonies
at the Lagrange points.
Could this favourably influence (to an appreciable degree) the
detection/destruction chances, given the large size of sensors < TL 10?

3. Detonation laser missiles are apparently available at TL 8. What
constitutes 'short range' ?
(not obvious from the very broken FF&S 2 - it isn't 16-45m, surely!)

4. Does anyone have thoughts about Orion drives i.e. how to model them
for the game?

Thanks
Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:54:53 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Nuclear power (long)

If anyone is interested, I'd like some constructive criticism of the
material below.

Power Plants in Traveller
From a dugout canoe to an interstellar dreadnought, vehicles need energy
to move. Equipment needs energy to operate, be it a flint axe or
disintegrator wand.
In general terms :-

heat source -> piston or other lever system -> mechanical energy
                  -> heat exchanger -> turbine -> electrical energy

There are some notable exceptions :-
Photoelectric and thermoelectric systems convert electromagnetism
directly to electricity.
Fuel cells and batteries convert the heat energy of chemical reactions
directly to electricity.

We will concentrate on nuclear heat sources in this discussion.

Fission
The splitting of heavy atomic nuclei releases an enormous amount of
energy.
1.23 grams of uranium 235 releases one megawatt-day of energy (8.64 X
10^10 joules).
This is equivalent to 2880 kg of coal or 2000 kg of crude oil.

Radioactivity is described at tech level 4.

By tech level 5, the energy content of the nucleus is evident to
physicists.
Fission bombs are possible by the end of this period.

Tech Level 6 is defined in one aspect by the ability to build fission
reactors. Most of the
possible variations in plant design are described in this period.
Light water and heavy water (D2O) cooled reactors are widely used.
Liquid metal (sodium cooled) breeder reactors are constructed. These
enable the production of radionuclides that can be used again as fuel.

Tech Level 7 sees the advent of high-temperature gas cooled (CO2 or
helium) reactors.
Solid core nuclear thermal rockets become practicable (eg. ROVER /
NERVA).
Thermionic power linkages are used experimentally (eg. Topaz).

At Tech Level 8, molten salt (fuel, fertile material and coolant are
mixed into a homogeneous fluid), gas cooled and light water breeders (at
prior tech levels it was thought you needed at least heavy water to
enable breeding) are developed.
Magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) turbines offer an alternative turbine paradigm
for space power generation, as it provides a more efficient way of using
a nuclear rocket's reactor.

Growing concern about the long-term fuel availability and environmental
consequences of fission power leads to the development of subcritical
reactors by Tech Level 9.
Fuel such as thorium, which cannot normally go critical, is bombarded by
a proton beam and 'kick-started'. When the proton beam is off, chain
reactions cannot continue.
Gaseous core nuclear rockets (the so-called nuclear lightbulb) become
feasible at this tech level. However, core leakage restricts their use
to space.
Improved superconductor technology increases the efficiency of
thermoelectric linkages.

Rules : Fission Power Plants
TL       Density     Energy density    Minimum Size   Price    Radiator
Area
6          10            0.3                     30
1          10
7           8             0.6                     20
1          10
8           6             1.0                     10
1          10
9           3             1.0                      8
1          1

Density : tons / m3, Energy density MW / m3, Minimum size m3, Price MCr
/ m3,
Radiator area m2 / MW out.
Conventional vane / panel arrays to TL 9.
Liquid drop (molten metal, with magnetic recovery of coolant) radiators
from TL 9+

Basal fuel consumption :- 200kg elemental metal per MW-year
(based on 3% w/w uranium 235 : other isotopes)
For simplicity, metallic fissile material has a density of 20kg / L.
The disadvantage with metals is thermal expansion. Salts can be used :-
eg. uranium carbide (UC) - multiply mass by 1.05
     uranium nitride (UN2) - multiply mass by 1.12
     uranium oxide  (UO2) - multiply mass by 1.13
     uranium tetrafluoride (UF4) - multiply mass by 1.3
All have a density of 10kg /L.
Other fissile elements have atomic masses of 200 or better, so the above
values are a reasonable approximation.

Direct Electric Power Generation
The fuel consumption value given above supposes a traditional heat
exchanger loop and turbine arrangement, which are almost 90% efficient
by TL 8.
Thermoelectricity's main advantage is that there are no moving parts.
However, it is considerably less efficient, at least at lower tech
levels.

a. Thermionics
A thermionic diode consists of a circuit in which the cathode and anode
are enclosed in a gas filled container. Photons from the fission
reactions strike the cathode and generate electricity via the
photoelectric effect.
Alkali metal vapour is the gas in the diode. Caesium appears to be one
of the better materials. It has a boiling point of 690 degrees Celsius.
Efficiency is increased with increased temperature. At 1800 degrees
Celsius, the power output is 10 watts per square cm of cathode. This
represents an overall efficiency of 20%.

TL         efficiency, %      fuel consumption multiplier
(6            5                       18)
7            10                     9
8            20                     4.5
9            50                     1.8
10          90                     1

b. Thermoelectricity
A potential difference can be generated at the junction of two
dissimilar metals with a change in temperature. This is the Seebeck
effect.
Example materials include lead, germanium, bismuth, tellurium and
manganese.
The maximum efficiency obtainable is 18%, with superconducting
junctions.

       !~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!
heat source                                      junction
       !_________________________!

TL          efficiency         fuel consumption multiplier
6            3                     30
7            6                     15
8            10                   9
9            18                   5

Magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) turbines.
Charges moving through a magnetic field will induce an electric current.

An MHD turbine uses this effect to generate electricity.
Fluid heated by the reactor is passed through the turbine. It can either
be recycled or ejected. Recycling involves significant amounts of
cooling and may not be practicable in some applications.

TL       efficiency      Fuel consumption multiplier
8         70%             1.3
9+       90%             1

Almost any substance could be used. Alkali metals like sodium, potassium
and lithium have desirable heat transfer characteristics. Hydrogen and
water are other candidates.

Fusion (and see postings on Joe Heck's site by Duncan Law-Green and
Benjamin Lane)
Nuclear fusion is literally the stuff of stars. The energy obtainable is
comparable to fission, in that almost one-fifth of one percent of the
reacting matter is converted directly to energy. Light atoms are very
plentiful, and the waste products are potentially less hazardous.

Uncontrolled fusion reactions are possible by Tech Level 6, using
fission bombs as a trigger.

Experimentation with magnetic field and laser-inertial confinement
finally yields workable reactors by Tech Level 9, based on tokamaks and
spheromaks.
Conventional heat exchangers are used initially (gas, water, liquid
metal), MHD turbines later in the period in space-based applications.

Energy is produced by the following reactions :-
a. Deuterium-deuterium (hydrogen-2) (D-D) chain
D + D -> helium-3 + n(eutron) + 3.2MeV : mass-to energy = 0.9 X 10e(-3)
D + D -> T + p(roton) + 4MeV                : m to e = 1.1 X 10e(-3)
Both reactions are equally likely, so overall energy produced is 3.6MeV
or 0.1% mass conversion.
b. Deuterium-tritium (hydrogen-3) (D-T) chain
D + T -> helium-4 + n + 17.6MeV : m to e = 3.8 X 10e(-3)
c. Helium-3
helium-3 + D -> helium-4 + p + 18.3MeV : m to e = 3.8 X 10e(-3)

Laser confinement fusion is used in Daedalus drives, fusion rockets and
weapons.

TL 10 : Thermionic power conversion, improved plant efficiency with
gravitic technology.
The latter also permits other reactor shapes than sphere or torus.
HePlaR drive requires controlled venting of reactor fuel to seed it with
deuterium and tritium and thereby permit fusion.

TL 12 : breakthroughs in gravitics and control of nuclear forces enables
proton-proton
fusion, and the use of 'plain' LH2 :-
p + p -> D + positron + energy
D + p -> helium-3 + energy
2 helium-3 -> beryllium-6* -> helium-4 + 2p

Rules : Fusion Power Plants
TL    Pow.Out  Density          Min Size  Area   Fuel Rate
9      4              2                      1000        1          25
10    4              2                       500         0.1       16.7
11    4              2                       200         0.1       12.5
12    4              2                         10         0.01     10
13    3              3                           1         0.01
6.125
14    3              3                      0.25         0.001   5
15    6              2                        0.1         0.001   4.17
16    7              1                    0.075         0.001   3.33

Power out MW / m3, density tons / m3, minimum size m3, area m2.
Fuel rate L / MW / year. Efficiency ranges from 10 to 75%.
Fuel for TL 9 to 11 plants is deuterium (LD2 has a density of 0.14
kg/L).
Fuel for TL 12+ plants is hydrogen (LH2 has a density of 0.07 kg/L).
Fuel rate is modified by the choice of power linkage ; options as above.

TL 9 plants cost 1 MCr / m3 ; above TL 9, cost is 0.5 MCr / m3.

Antimatter
Ordinary matter is made up of negatively charged electrons orbitting
nuclei made up of positively charged protons and neutrons, which have no
charge.
The existence of 'mirror-image' particles was postulated as early as
Tech Level 4, and confirmed by Tech Level 5.
Interaction of antimatter with matter results in annihilation : the
conversion of mass to energy, as per the Einstein equation :-

energy (joules) = mass (kg) X (speed of light)^2

Recall that 1.23g of uranium 235 fissions to yield 8.64 X 10^10 joules
(1 MW-day).
1.23g completely converted to energy yields :-

energy = (1.23 X 10^(-3)) X (3 X 10^8)^2
           = 1.107 X 10^14 joules, or 3.5 MW-years

The technology to create significant amounts of antimatter doesn't exist
until Tech Level 10.

TL 8 : antiproton confinement systems demonstrated.
TL 10 : increased particle accelerator efficiency enables the production
of antimatter (antihydrogen - milligrams per year), which is stored in
magnetic 'bottles'.
Applications include imaging, radiotherapy, and rocket propulsion.
TL 17 : first antimatter power pods are developed.

Rules :-
Tech         Power       Density      Fuel Rate     Min. Size
17            100           6               0.66             8
18            250           5               1.6               1
19            500           4               2.9               0.25
20            750           3               4.2               0.1
21            900           2               4.7               0.02

Power MW / m3, density tons / m3, minimum size in m3
Fuel rate is in L per year and is a 1 : 1 blend of hydrogen and
antihydrogen.
All power plants cost 0.5MCr / m3 and require an area of 0.001m2 / MW.

Thank you.
Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #827
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 18 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 828



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re : Re Rocketry 100
Slugs, etc.
Re: Bolos (again)
re: Vision
Re: Bolos (again)
Re: Off topic question 
Re: Off topic question
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat
RE : Vision correction in the 3I
Re: Transponders
Re: T5 skills
Re: Off topic question
Re: Transponders
Re: Off topic question
Re: T5 skills
Re: Transponders
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826
Re: Transponders
MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:06:02 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

One of my kids has MD, getting worse, and can no longer manage a mouse.
The only trackball we have requires its own drivers, which we can't
install because the Board (in its infinite wisdom) has decreed that no
non-standard drivers can be installed.

Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft mouse
drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital Venturis FX
running Windows NT.)  

Actually, if anyone knows of a good source for computer accssories for
disabled people, I'd appreciate knowing. I've got access to a small pot of
money _not_ under Board control, specifically for the disabled kids, but I
don't know enough about what's available for them.

Sorry to take up list bandwidth, but you folks are such an incredibly
knowledgable bunch, and my PH/MD kids really need the help.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:36:06 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Re Rocketry 100

Colin Hutchinson's calculations suggest that :-
a one megaton weapon detonated within 50km of an unshielded spacecraft
(minimum armour rating) will expose the crew to a dose of 8891 rems.
At 5km, the flux is 6.67 X 10^5 J/m2, which corresponds to a temperature
of about 1850 K, from the Stefan-Boltzmann law (generously assuming that
the energy arrives over a second).
Personnel are definitely toast.
The EMP will damage sensors and electronics.

Acute brain syndrome leads to unconsciousness within about ten minutes
above 5000 rems.
Death occurs within the next hour or two - the blood vessels of the
brain undergo an acute inflammatory and hypertrophic reaction which
dramatically increases the diffusion distance for oxygen, causing
cerebral asphyxia.

Radiation protection is a function of material density. Superdense may
be a little better as it's partially collapsed matter, but not much.

Now, can we come up with the required accuracy from TL 6-8?

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:48:25 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Slugs, etc.

Leonard Erickson wrote :-


> ObTrav: Just how big do you suppose slugs could get on a low grav
> planet? And how well will the more squeamish players deal with being
> told that their character is trapped in his sleeping bag by the weight
> of the slug munching on the outer covering? :-)
>
Go with the square-cube law.
Earth's biggest land snail :- African giant snail, 34.3 cm (13.5") long,
masses 650g
Sea snail :- 7.1 kg - 15lb, 13oz.
The shell is about a third of the weight.

Icky.
Then there's segmented worms, centipedes, leeches, scorpions....

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:57:01 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)

- ----Original Message Follows----
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:52:18 +0000
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

At 04:38 PM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
><SNIP>
>
>Just an FYI, a Bolo design for MT was included in the "lost" vehicle 
>files. Here it is again for referee amusement and PC terror. ;-)
>
>Continental Defense Unit TL15
>
>     The  CDU mounts two starship class fusion gun turrets in addition  
to
>a 
>large  array  of smaller weapons primarily intended for defense.   With 
its 
>thick armor and good active defense, the CDU is proof against almost
>anything 
>short  of  a starship meson gun battery.  Very few have ever actually 
been 
>built, due to the difficulty of transport, and public mistrust of an
>unmanned 
>device so potentially destructive.
>
>  CraftID: Continental Defense Unit, TL15, MCr494.12
>     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=4USL, Armor=80G, Loaded=25335t
>    Power: 21/34, Fusion=3600MW, Dur=22/66
>     Loco: 216/360, Tracks, P/W=126, Road=270kph, Offroad=108kph
>     Comm: Radio=System, LaserComm=System, MaserComm=System
>  Sensors: EMM, EMSActive(Far Orbit), EMSJammer(Far Orbit), 
>           EMSPassive(Interstellar), HighPenDensitometer(1km), Neutrino
>           Sensor(10kw), ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
>           PassObjScan=Routine, PassObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple,
>           PassEnPin=Routine
>      Off: Hardpoints=4
>
>                      Pen/          Max    Auto   Dngr
>                      Attn    Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
>2*2 Fusion Gun (ship) 103/5   900   Planet  -      45     H     30
>8*1 RPY-15 Fusion Gun  71/5    30   Region  2      45     H     40
>20*1 50MW Beam Laser   55/4   100   Region  2       -     H     40
>
>      Def: Point Defense Targeting for all weapons
>  Control: Robot Brain (Int 12, Ed 23), DynLink*25, electronic circuit 
>           protection
>    Accom: None
>    Other: Fuel=963,000l, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Faint
>           Robotic skills=HighEnWpns-5, LaserWpns-5, Tactics-5, 
TrackVeh-5,
>           Commo-5, ArmoredCombat-5
>
>
>
>

Good, a model to work from. According to the tech notes, Marks XX, XXIII 
and
XXiX were all dual Hellbore main guns. Most secondaries were Laser, 
breech
loading morters and vertical launch missiles.

Yeah, a bolo is very good amusement. 

Garry 
================================================

Good until you're cruising at low alt in your Type S scout and one of 
these reaches out and touches you................




Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:58:13 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Vision

David J. Golden writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Krakaur mentions a climber who was blinded at the most dangerous
>part of the high altitude ascent. The climber had undergone laser
>surgery for myopia - and the weakened lenses failed under the
>cold, thin-air conditions. He made it back, and his eyes eventually

	Would you happen to remember *which* type of surgery he had? I'd
believe that of Laser Radial Keratotomy--the radial incisions can,
IIRC, be up to 80% of the thickness of the cornea. PRK and LASIK are
much more benign ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Checked the source - you're correct, it was radial keratotomy. I also
noticed that "laser" wasn't specified - I assumed it was laser, and the
author may have as well, but it could have been done with a scalpel.

Mebbe the operation that failed on him was TL7 instead of TL8...


Walt Smith

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 06:03:34 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:00:16 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Bolos (again)
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

Garry Ward wrote:
> 
<<snips description of Bolo CSU>>
> 
> Good, a model to work from. According to the tech notes, Marks XX, 
XXIII and
> XXiX were all dual Hellbore main guns. Most secondaries were Laser, 
breech
> loading morters and vertical launch missiles.
> 
> Yeah, a bolo is very good amusement.
> 
> Garry

Well, you know what they say:

"You may have Claymores and Dragons, but we have Bolos and Ogres!"

[on-topic portion] Imagine the enthusiastic cries of joy your players
would have, upon being asked to take out a Virus-infected Bolo or
Ogre....  >;-)
==================================

Hahahahahahaha

For those of you who know Ogres (gotta love em!)

Bolo:    Rumble rumble rumble:  Hmmm, to be or not to be?  That is the 
question.

Ogre:    Rumble rumble rumble:  To be??  MY ASS!!!  **BOOOOOMMMMMMMM**



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:56:08 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic question 

> This is blashphemy, but Traveller is my second favorite thing to do on a
> Sunday afternoon....smirck :-) I have to be a lecherous old goat...

You're right, it *IS* blasphemous.  You're *SUPPOSED* to do that on Sunday 
morning like the *REST* of us.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:40:41 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Off topic question

I'm not a morning person....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:58:01 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat

Peter Newman wrote:

> So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able to
> interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the time].
> If shew successfully interrupts she gets to take her action and he has
> lost his action.  If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go after
> him & cannot suffer a mishap.
>

Normall, this is true. IIRC, a unit engaged in hand-to-hand combat may not
interrupt. So Betty can't interrupt anybody.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:18:50 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: RE : Vision correction in the 3I

>[interesting suggestions about vision correction]

I might add

TL10: Adaptive glasses - provide 2x normal vision resolution through 
correction of high-order aberrations
TL12: Adaptive contact lenses - same as above
TL13: Adaptive retinal implants

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:34:15 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Transponders

At 12:44 AM 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Yeah; El Al takes their security seriously. It's alleged that they have
>Milspec chaff and flare launchers on their airliners (I wish we did that...),
>and they have armed skymarshals on board (or their equivilent). If that is
the
>case, I hope they carry Glaser safety slugs, Explosive decompression
sucks....

IIRC, the El Al security personnel on board carry .22 Berettas, and are
trained to get within a meter or so of the target before firing the entire
magazine into the them.  The deatails are a bit hazy, it was from an
article I read in the early eighties when we were having so much trouble
with hijacking.

Ob Trav:

Does the Imperium have a similar counterpart to the Sky Marshals or other
airline security force?  It would make sense, IMO, to have such a service
if only due to the sheer numbers of sophonts travelling the spaceways. 

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:31:07 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: T5 skills

Bloo replied:
>
>Smart, David J (David) wrote:
>
>> I've always made Env. Combat a cascade requiring a specialization in
>> either Hi-G, 0G, or Underwater. Just a thought.
>
>Wouldn't Underwater and 0G be very similar?  I realize they are not
>identical, but since NASA puts the astronauts underwater to simulate
>micro-G, IMO, they are close enough for government work.

You're right but as Leonard said, the similarities stop where
resistance from the water begins and, IMO, this can be a critical
difference in combat. I run MT with modifications to the skills
list and allow background skills and no skill limitations ala T4.
PCs, IMTU, tend to have access to more skills, including 
Mountaineering, as described in "The Mountain Environment", and
Swimming and Diving from "The Underwater Environment". Both
supplements are by GameLords (aka Keith brothers) and provide
some very nice detail. Pity they're out of print.

>Your points are well taken  MT has ZeroG and HiG.
>However, the skill is only available in T4.1 to the agent, merchant,
>army, navy, marine, and rogue careers.  Careers in which it is
>somewhat likely to encounter, and train for, both environments.
>I can't think of a situation in which a character would train in one
>and not the other (unless he was stuck in one envirnoment
>indefinitely).

I can see Navy personnel having more exposure to 0G environments
over HiG ones while Marines and Army (especially Army) exposure
being the reverse. However, this is a matter of personal taste.

Whenever I generate a PC under MT, I definitely try to get both 
skills!

>I think your solution of a cascade skill is good.
>But I think a broad Environmental Combat is fine as well. And in
>the interest of keeping the skill list down, I would keep it as is.

Good point but, as I said, it's merely a matter of personal taste.
My MT skills modifications were limited to adding ones from TNE 
and T4 which promoted ease of play (ex. Perception) or helped make
a character unique (ex. Fencing and its equivalent for weaponless
combat, Unarmed Combat).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:39:40 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic question

Morning, afternoon, 3 AM, whatever.  Dont tell me you're all so 
regimented?!

Jim

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:40:41 EDT
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Off topic question
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

I'm not a morning person....



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:46:05 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Transponders

Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net> writes:
>Sure it is possible to steal a ship, refit it, remove ID numbers, and use
>or sell it in another part of the world with forged documentation, BUT
>such an enterprise would take a LARGE amount of money, planning,
>knowledge, and expertise to pull off.

Happens every year, though. Someone posted web references last year
sometime. I've lost them, but chances are someone could dig them up for
you if you missed them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:03:23 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Off topic question

At 12:23 AM 9/18/98 EDT, you wrote:

>This is blashphemy, but Traveller is my second favorite thing to do on a
>Sunday afternoon....smirck :-) I have to be a lecherous old goat...

Sunday afternoons?  Go 49ers!!!
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:52:53 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: T5 skills

steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> writes:
>Wouldn't Underwater and 0G be very similar?  I realize they are not
>identical, but since NASA puts the astronauts underwater to simulate
>micro-G, IMO, they are close enough for government work.

Nope. Underwater you have the friction of the water, which significantly
affects how you move. (At least, it significantly affected me every time I
went SCUBA diving!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:56:05 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders

>Ob Trav:
>
>Does the Imperium have a similar counterpart to the Sky Marshals or 
>other airline security force?  It would make sense, IMO, to have such 
>a service if only due to the sheer numbers of sophonts travelling the 
>spaceways.
>
>Kurt Feltenberger
>

Yes, they are called the SIB, Sophonts In Black and they keep the 
peace....

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:11:18 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826

Help, I drowning in a sea of abbreviations.  Could someone list the most
common so I will know what you're all saying.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Transponders

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Rob Prior wrote:

> Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net> writes:
> >Sure it is possible to steal a ship, refit it, remove ID numbers, and use
> >or sell it in another part of the world with forged documentation, BUT
> >such an enterprise would take a LARGE amount of money, planning,
> >knowledge, and expertise to pull off.
> 
> Happens every year, though. Someone posted web references last year
> sometime. I've lost them, but chances are someone could dig them up for
> you if you missed them.

But it *doesn't* happen often enough for the companies/governments to
start mandating that all ships use unforgable/untamperable transponder
units. My statement wasn't to imply that ship hijacking NEVER happens
IMTU, just that it is rare enough that the expense of Imperium-wide
transponders isn't worth it.

Also, like I said, I think that local systems WOULD use transponders, but
for traffic control, not anti-theft. And since most ships IMTU never visit
more than a handful of worlds (Ships have payments to keep up, and
exploring is a risky, unprofitable business most of the time), the local
alliances of private and government interests can agree on standards if
necessary.

IMTU,

Ben


- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:32:16 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

>Peter Newman wrote:
>
>> So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able to
>> interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the time].
>> If shew successfully interrupts she gets to take her action and he has
>> lost his action.  If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go after
>> him & cannot suffer a mishap.
>>
>
>Normall, this is true. IIRC, a unit engaged in hand-to-hand combat may not
>interrupt. So Betty can't interrupt anybody.

This still means that interrupts have excessive power, in that it takes a
very easy roll to prevent an enemy's task from being completed.  I imagine
some future combats where each side, waiting for the other to make its move
so they can interrupt, stand frozen, looking into each other's eyes, very
dramatic, but not terribly useful.

Interrupts cannot be performed by suprised parties.

Interrupts may only be performed once per side.

Ok so the side with initiative can always (if someone has an action left)
interrupt the interrupter...but that won't "bring back" the action of the
originally interrupted person, right?

Example : Joe and Jane have initiative over Fred and Frieda.  Joe is trying
to put the candlestick back into the wall sconce, which would close the
secret passage, sealing off the bad guys.  Fred, seeing this, interrupts
Joe's action (assuming success) and tries to shoot him - Joe takes cover,
his action ruined.  Jane (Joe's friend) interrupts Fred's fire task with
one of her own.  Freida (Fred's Friend) can't interrupt (since her side
used its one interrupt this round), but she can shoot at people, but her
damage (to Jane) will occur after her fire task is complete (since Jane's
side has initiative).

So the enemy interrupt sucessfully stops the action, but the task they
interrupted with is then, itself interrupted; should this "reset" the
originally interrupted task (putting the candleshtick back) or is the
originally interrupted task gone forever?  I think the latter.  and can one
interrupt the act of interrupting itself?  That would translate into Jane
providing 'cover fire' to prevent Fred from firing in the first place and
seems ok to me maybe.

Let's get this stuff settled people, I have a game to run!

Pete



Now add a third party and it gets even worse :)

                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:03:42 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826

>From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:11:18 -0700
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826
>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>Help, I drowning in a sea of abbreviations.  Could someone list the 
most
>common so I will know what you're all saying.
>
>Leo

Like which ones, Leo?


The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:21:08 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826

At 09:11 AM 9/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Help, I drowning in a sea of abbreviations.  Could someone list the most
>common so I will know what you're all saying.

IMTU: In My Traveller Universe.  Common way of saying that the following is
how a situation is handled in a personal game.

GDW: Game Designers' Workshop.  Original publishers of Traveller.  Now out
of business.

CT: Classic Traveller.  The game from 1977-87, the era of the original game.

LBB: Little Black Books. Alternate to CT, or a direct reference to one of
the original three rule books.

HG: High Guard.  Book 5 of CT, had the first set of expanded ship design
rules.

MT: MegaTraveller.  The first major rules re-write.  Released in 1987,
lasted until 1993 (?).  Also known as MegaErrata.

DGP: Digest Group Productions.  Secondary publisher of MT materials,
produced some of the best materials for Traveller, including:
	WBH: World Builders Handbook
	SOM: Starship Operator's Manual

TNE: The New Era.  Shorthand for Traveller:The New Era.  The second major
revision of the rules.

BL/BR: Brilliant Lances/Battle Rider.  Two space combat games.

RC: Reformation Coalition.  The first major setting for TNE, a small
grouping of stars recovering from the Imperiums destruction.

T4:  Marc Miller's Traveller.  Third major rules rewrite.

IG: Imperium games.  Late, unlamented publisher of T4

M0: Milieu:0.  Primary setting for T4.  Set at the dawn of the Third
Imperium (year 0)

FFS2:  Fire, Fusion & Steel, version 2.  The standard for building current
Traveller starships.

QSDS: Quick Ship Design System.  Desigm system for starships.  Meant to be
a "quick and dirty" design sequence.  Found in the T4 rulebook, and on the
web.

SSDS: Standard Ship Design System.  QSDS' big brother.  Based on FFS2, uses
modular designs for easier results than the math-intensive FFS2.

5FW: The Fifth Frontier War.  War between the Imperium and the Zhodani,
1107-1110.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:34:34 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

Rob, not sure if it would be better than a mouse but I use and ALPS touch
pad that operates perfectly on Ein drivers. There are some other versions
that can be used with standad pens, pointers etc. I think they run about
$30.00 at PC Warehouse (don't know the URL, but they are on the Web). The
ALPS are somewhat more expensive.

"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:33 AM
Subject: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)


>One of my kids has MD, getting worse, and can no longer manage a mouse.
>The only trackball we have requires its own drivers, which we can't
>install because the Board (in its infinite wisdom) has decreed that no
>non-standard drivers can be installed.
>
>Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft mouse
>drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital Venturis FX
>running Windows NT.)
>
>Actually, if anyone knows of a good source for computer accssories for
>disabled people, I'd appreciate knowing. I've got access to a small pot of
>money _not_ under Board control, specifically for the disabled kids, but I
>don't know enough about what's available for them.
>
>Sorry to take up list bandwidth, but you folks are such an incredibly
>knowledgable bunch, and my PH/MD kids really need the help.
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #828
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 18 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 829



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

vision correction
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Sale of Stutterwarp
Re: Sable Rose affair
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: [T98#821] Metric
Re: Off topic question 
Re: Definitions
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
Re: Sale of Stutterwarp
Re: Virus LIVES
Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Sale of Stutterwarp
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
re: Vision
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826
Re: Transponders
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828 
Re: [T98#821] Metric

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:08:24 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: vision correction

>I wonder what the Imperial equivalent situation is? Not correcting the
>vision of soldiers with sub-standard vision?
 
    I'll venture that the Imperium will correct the vision of recruits who
need it when possible.
Today's tech allows some nearsightedness to be corrected surgically in few
hours with a recovery time of 23-48 hours.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:34:51 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

Mr O'Connor you forgot the sea slug.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:40:29 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

OK Count here are a few that I have just seen. IMO, IIRC, IMTU, and many
many more.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:42:31 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

Mr. Berry, Do you all end up converting from FFS2 to Traveller:TNE?  Why
doesn't eveyone still use FFS from GDW?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:51:27 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Sale of Stutterwarp

     Thanks for everyones input on what our group should do with the
Stutterwarp technology.  We plan on selling it to a huge Regency
corporation, with a good return on our investment we hope, and then a
couple of months from now we will sell the technology to the Regency
Government, for another good return on our investment.  This way the
Regency will be able to defeat the Capellans alll the faster.  We will also
use the returns we get to build more Stutterwarp ships and therefore be
ahead in the market.  I was thinking we could build a nice 10,000 ton
frigate with Stutterwarp and sell the whole thing to the Regency.  This way
they will have the technology and a test bed all at once.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:57:53 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Sable Rose affair

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Many thanks to everyone who responded, that info was useful

Regards, Andy

- - -------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			andrewlong@hotmail.com
Abu Dhabi			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
				+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- - -------------------------------------------------------


- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:02:38 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

[snip amusing interrupt discussion]

That reminds me of the following:


He, thinking I was about to kill him in self-defense,
Was about to kill me, in self-defense,
So I killed him, in self-defense.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:09:16 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

Leo Hale wrote:

> OK Count here are a few that I have just seen. IMO, IIRC, IMTU, and many
> many more.

In My Opinion (also IMHO, In My Humble Opinion which is used to politely
call someone an idiot.  ;-)
If I Recall Correctly
In My Traveller Universe.

You should also know:

YMMV: Your Mileage May Vary
BTW: By The Way
OTOH: On The Other Hand
FWIW: For What Its Worth
FYI: For Your Information
BFD: Big Frigging Deal
LOL: Lots of Laughs
ROFL: Rolling On the Floor Laughing
ROFLMAO: As above but with ...My Ass Off
YMWAB: Your Mother Wears Army Boots
TOGSFIADSF: The Only Good Smiley Face Is A Dead Smiley Face

Also, references to the "real world" and "real life" should always be
presented with trademark symbol and capitalized:

Real Life (tm)
Real World (tm)

Some of these are meant in humor.  I'll let you decide which. ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:17:16 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: [T98#821] Metric

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:22:02 -0400, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:

>From:           	shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Date sent:      	Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:33:34 PST

>> In mail you write:

>> BTW, IIRC the "nautical mile" is now defined in *metric*! 

>Not exactly (see below), it is however expressed in metric now because it has 
>become the standard system for navigation. IIRC the US is now the only nation 
>which doesn't use the SI system.

...and even that's a little bit of a fuzzy statement, since all
of our non-SI units are now actually defined in terms of SI units
or fractions or multiples thereof - the "inch", for example, is
defined as being exactly 2.54 centimeters.

>I think that given the overall size of the Imperium, its SI units would be based 
>upon some physical constant independent of any world (such as the ring/ray 
>coordinate system). Maybe a fixed division of the circumferance of the galaxy? 
>or the distance from Sylea to the galatic core?

Dicey, at best, because the fundamental distances are (a) so vast
in comparison with the fundamental units, and (b) not likely to
be determinable exactly because of it.

IIRC, the meter and the second are currently defined in terms of
the number of wavelengths of the light emitted by an electron in
a particular transition in a particular type of atom, and the
amount of time that it takes light to travel a particular
distance.  The actual numbers in question are a little awkward,
to make them "come out right" in terms of what we had been using
(otherwise, picking "better"numbers, we would have ended up with
a shorter meter and a longer second), but they're still defined
in terms of reproducible measurements independent of a particular
location or frame of reference.

I actually think that there would be _two_ sets of Standard
Imperial (SI) units, one set each very close to the Vilani and
Solomani standards, but using the "rational" numbers that give
results closest to the "traditional" values - for example, the
Solomani-correspondent "Meter" would be defined as exactly
10,000,000 wavelengths of the transition photon, instead of
9,853,456.36 (or whatever it actually is, you get the idea), and
the "Second" would be the time it takes light to travel (in
vacuo) exactly 300,000,000 Meters, instead of 299,975,326.92 (or
whatever etc. etc.).

(Yes, I know, the Warrant speaks of using the Sylean Federation
Standard Measures - but maybe the Sylean Federation already did
this?)

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:14:52 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic question 

> I'm not a morning person....

<shrug>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:36:19 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Definitions

>OK Count here are a few that I have just seen. IMO, IIRC, IMTU, and 
many
>many more.
>

dberry did a great listing....  

IMO:  In My Opinion.  

   Varients are:
IMHO:     In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO:   In My Not So Humble Opinion

IIRC:     If I Recall Correctly

ISTR:     I Seem To Remember

YMMV:     Your Mileage May Vary



The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:50:42 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

>>Peter Newman wrote:
>>
>>> So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able to

>>> interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the
time].
>>> If shew successfully interrupts she gets to take her action and he
has
>>> lost his action.  If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go
after
>>> him & cannot suffer a mishap.
>>>
>>
>>Normall, this is true. IIRC, a unit engaged in hand-to-hand combat may
not
>>interrupt. So Betty can't interrupt anybody.
>
>This still means that interrupts have excessive power, in that it takes
a
>very easy roll to prevent an enemy's task from being completed.  I
imagine
>some future combats where each side, waiting for the other to make its
move
>so they can interrupt, stand frozen, looking into each other's eyes,
very
>dramatic, but not terribly useful.
>
>Interrupts cannot be performed by suprised parties.
>
>Interrupts may only be performed once per side.
>
>Ok so the side with initiative can always (if someone has an action
left)
>interrupt the interrupter...but that won't "bring back" the action of
the
>originally interrupted person, right?
>

IMTU the interrupt does not eliminate the interupted task, it increases
the difficulty of the interupted task, if the interrupt task AND the
interrupting task are successful (the interrupt roll and the shot roll).
meaning your bullet hits and messes up the aim of the interrupted
character.  I have also used +1 difficutly if interrupted and +2
difficulty if interrupted and hit.

just some thoughts to consider

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:40:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Sale of Stutterwarp

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      Thanks for everyones input on what our group should do with the
> Stutterwarp technology.  We plan on selling it to a huge Regency
> corporation, with a good return on our investment we hope, and then a
> couple of months from now we will sell the technology to the Regency
> Government, for another good return on our investment. 

OUCH! Hope your players can afford good lawyers! Because IMTU that
megacorp you just sold the technology to is gonna sell it to the Regency
Govt in a heartbeat and keep _all_ the money.

I hope, for their sakes, your players insisted that this was a
technology _licensing_ deal with stringent terms on subsidiary licensing
deals, not an outright sale of the technology...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:47:07 EDT
From: Caecillus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Virus LIVES

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

>So far, Dulinor's unfortunate "accident" is the sole point of divergence.
>Which means that somewhere out there, an Imperial Research Station is
>still hard at work on the ancestors of everyone's favorite
>quasi-plausible superweapon.

I was under the impression from reading "Survival Margin" that the Virus
project was a wartime inovation.  Dulinor's people had never heard of the
research station involved, nor did it show on any of the pre-War lists.
- --

I just found in Challenge 69 the details to this - Dulinor himself was
informed about a super-weapon of Lucan and attacted the research-station.
virus was therefore activated by accident. Dulinor payed with his life a
little later when his flagship crashed dirtside somewhere. 

the article is called "when empires fall part 2" .

Ralf  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:48:34 -0600
From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Near-C Rocks and Honor Harrington

>  Presumably these interstellar rules (not to be confused with the so-
>called Imperial Rules of War) also dictate that the neutralization of 
>the regular military defenses requires a surrender to be made; this 
>would somewhat explain the spinal PA rule.

This is a nice background to why the end of the Rebellion was called the
"Black War" period, since there WAS carpet bombing, extensive Meson fire on
planetary surfaces, deliberate destruction of civilian life-support equipment,
and so on.  "Scorched Earth" campaigns are not a pleasant activity to pick up
pieces from (especially since the idea is that the pieces left over are very
small and few).

- - Joseph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:54:48 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

And my favorite new one:

TEOTWAWKI common in groups like comp.y2k meaning 

The end of the world as we know it...

See the brief article in the latest Scientific American (Oct probably, I
just got it the other day) for an amusing article about some of the
rampant paranoia going on today.

(The survivalists have risen again...now instead of nuclear war or
financial meltdown, the Y2K crisis is gonna cause all the cities to
collapse because all eleictricity and water will shut down and the
hordes come a-running out to the country where the survivalists have
stockpiled enough ammunition to take out...oh...maybe 5 of them before
they're overrun...)


"...and I feel fiiiiine!"
 ;-)

Note! This will not apply to New Zealand or Australia since they've
already experienced these meltdowns in major urban areas...and so far
the news reports haven't looked like "Road Warrior" time over there...

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:57:07 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

What is this 'Board' of which you speak, and what business is it of theirs
what you have on your computer?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior <Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:18 AM
Subject: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)


>One of my kids has MD, getting worse, and can no longer manage a mouse.
>The only trackball we have requires its own drivers, which we can't
>install because the Board (in its infinite wisdom) has decreed that no
>non-standard drivers can be installed.
>
>Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft mouse
>drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital Venturis FX
>running Windows NT.)
>
>Actually, if anyone knows of a good source for computer accssories for
>disabled people, I'd appreciate knowing. I've got access to a small pot of
>money _not_ under Board control, specifically for the disabled kids, but I
>don't know enough about what's available for them.
>
>Sorry to take up list bandwidth, but you folks are such an incredibly
>knowledgable bunch, and my PH/MD kids really need the help.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:21:54 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
> Mr O'Connor you forgot the sea slug.
> 
> Leo


And Travellers who served in their planet's wet navy submarine service
would know all about water slugs....  ;-)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:42:46 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Sale of Stutterwarp

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      Thanks for everyones input on what our group should do with the
> Stutterwarp technology.  We plan on selling it to a huge Regency
> corporation, with a good return on our investment we hope, and then a
> couple of months from now we will sell the technology to the Regency
> Government, for another good return on our investment.  This way the
> Regency will be able to defeat the Capellans alll the faster.  We will also
> use the returns we get to build more Stutterwarp ships and therefore be
> ahead in the market.  I was thinking we could build a nice 10,000 ton
> frigate with Stutterwarp and sell the whole thing to the Regency.  This way
> they will have the technology and a test bed all at once.
> 
> Leo

There's a word for selling the same thing twice:  fraud. 
Megacorporations tend to take vigorous action against those who defraud
them.  If you are fortunate, these actions are taken through the legal
system.  If you are less fortunate, then, for your safety, you may wish
to consider using a portion of your proceeds to hire some protective
personnel.  About two or three regiments would be a good start
(depending on the size of the megacorp, and the degree to which you
annoyed the management thereof).

Bruce Johnson pointed out some of the pitfalls to your plan.  I would
recommend a licensing agreement, stipulating that:

1.  The licensee may not sub-license the technology to any other party;

2.  The licensor retains the right to develop, make, and sell goods and
services based on the technology;

3.  The licensor must be paid a royalty on any technology derived by the
licensee from the originally licensed technology;

4.  The licensor may not enter into a licensing agreement for the
specified technology with any other private entity, for the length of
the license;

5.  Upon expiration of the licensing agreement, the original licensee
retains the right to renew the license by matching any other bid;

6.  Nothing in the licensing agreement precludes the licensor from
entering into a licensing agreement for the specified technology with
any interstellar governmental entity.

I imagine that the lawyers on this mailing list might be able to refine
these points, but you get the idea.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:47:01 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

At 08:06 am 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
>One of my kids has MD, getting worse, and can no longer manage a mouse.
>The only trackball we have requires its own drivers, which we can't
>install because the Board (in its infinite wisdom) has decreed that no
>non-standard drivers can be installed.

	Too bad you're not in the US, or you could point out to the Board
that its infinite wisdom overlooked a lawsuit for failure to make
reasonable accommodations ...

>Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft mouse
>drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital Venturis FX
>running Windows NT.)  

	Doesn't MS make its own trackball?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:49:05 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re: Vision

At 08:58 am 9/18/98 -0400, you wrote:
>David J. Golden writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Krakaur mentions a climber who was blinded at
the most dangerous
>>part of the high altitude ascent. The climber had undergone laser
>>surgery for myopia - and the weakened lenses failed under the
>>cold, thin-air conditions. He made it back, and his eyes eventually
>
>	Would you happen to remember *which* type of surgery he had? I'd
>believe that of Laser Radial Keratotomy--the radial incisions can,
>IIRC, be up to 80% of the thickness of the cornea. PRK and LASIK are
>much more benign ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Checked the source - you're correct, it was radial keratotomy. I also
>noticed that "laser" wasn't specified - I assumed it was laser, and the
>author may have as well, but it could have been done with a scalpel.

	Probably not laser, then. Laser RK is almost non-existent now that
PRK and LASIK are so widely available. My surgeon told me I could go
scuba diving a month after the surgery (he didn't want the water in
the eye before that ...), or climb to the top of Pikes Peak a week
after. Not Everest, certainly ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:51:21 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #826

At 10:21 am 9/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>QSDS: Quick Ship Design System.  Desigm system for starships.  Meant to be
>a "quick and dirty" design sequence.  Found in the T4 rulebook, and on the
>web.
>
>SSDS: Standard Ship Design System.  QSDS' big brother.  Based on FFS2, uses
>modular designs for easier results than the math-intensive FFS2.

	Correction: SSDS and QSDS were both based on FF&S *1*, which was
supposed to remain (virtually) unchanged. After later books ignored
that, we (the authors of FF&S2) were given latitude to deviate as
well.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:12:52 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

I had the impression that since the 3I appeared decentralized, the
corporations and shipowners were responsible for their own security, hence the
security school special duty assignment in the Merchant Prince Chargen tables.
If private security can run around as semi military organizations, then I
asume that Imperial (or individual world govs for that matter) government
security must be awsome (especially since every PC runs around in scouts and
'merchies with weapon turrets); not to mention the Navy, and Army being
available to back up security....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:17:35 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828 

> You should also know:
> 
> YMMV: Your Mileage May Vary

Also, YMWV: Your Mileage *WILL* Vary...

> LOL: Lots of Laughs

LOL is Laughing Out Loud.

> ROFL: Rolling On the Floor Laughing
> ROFLMAO: As above but with ...My Ass Off
> YMWAB: Your Mother Wears Army Boots
> TOGSFIADSF: The Only Good Smiley Face Is A Dead Smiley Face

You forgot:

IMHO: In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO: In My Not So Humble Opinion
IMNSBFHO: In My Not So Bloody ****ing Humble Opinion

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:47:33 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [T98#821] Metric

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> the "Second" would be the time it takes light to travel (in
> vacuo) exactly 300,000,000 Meters, instead of 299,975,326.92 (or
> whatever etc. etc.).

The length of a meter has actually been changed... scientists were unable
to calculate the speed of light with more than 9 correct digits, so they
re-defined the speed of light to *exactly* 299792458 meters per second,
meaning that a meter is the distance light travels in 1/299792458 seconds.
A second in turn is defined based on some oscillation nucleus...

Just thought you'd want to know...

Sometimes I wonder why they didn't redefine it as being 300000000
meters, but that would have made all their precious research trying to
determine the speed of light useless ;-)

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #829
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 Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 19 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 830



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #820
Re: Metric and measurement stuff
Was : Transponders ; now Ian pontificating on Traveller starship combat
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Abbrev.
Re: Transponders
Re: Metric and measurement stuff
Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Your Mileage My Vary
T4 Miner career
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
GURPS Traveller ???
Original Striker for Auction
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re:  Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: GURPS Traveller ???
remove
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Superconductors: carbon composites
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:50:19 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #820

In a message dated 9/17/98 2:06:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, julia-and-
chris@compute-ability.demon.co.uk writes:

<< n one of the Megatraveller Journals (number 4 I believe) They told usd
 about wehat was due to happen to the Zhodani - they would meet the
 'baddies from the core', have their psionic brains fried, and then all
 the non-psis would develop some psi powers. >>

I think that the "Baddies from the Core" idea was officially declared by Dave
Nilsen (??) NOT to be the same as the Empress Wave...it was in Regency
Sourcebook if I remember right.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:22:56 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and measurement stuff

Imperial scientists today announced that 1+1 is, in fact, not 2.  It is
actually 1.999999999564.  The impact on galactic economics is currently
being speculated.  Long-held mathematical beliefs and scientific assumptions
and formulas will all need to be reevaluated in the upcoming weeks.

Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:24:46
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Was : Transponders ; now Ian pontificating on Traveller starship combat

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Transponders
>
>I had the impression that since the 3I appeared decentralized, the
>corporations and shipowners were responsible for their own security, hence
the
>security school special duty assignment in the Merchant Prince Chargen
tables.
>If private security can run around as semi military organizations, then I
>asume that Imperial (or individual world govs for that matter) government
>security must be awsome (especially since every PC runs around in scouts and
>'merchies with weapon turrets); not to mention the Navy, and Army being
>available to back up security....

Not quite.

IMO there are essentially four defining features to Traveller combat.

1) very long sensor ranges. 

2) laser output is limited to (TL*50) MJ. 

3) externally imposed limits on the use of nukes. 

4) range on Particle and Meson weapons being essentially a function of
their length.

If you are prepared to spend, say, fifty megacredits, then you can put
sensor range to well outside the maximum range that speed of light lag
imposes on combat. This means that combat happens by consent, or under
unusual circumstances (usually the outnumbered side being caught with empty
tanks).

Any military starships Famile Spofulam has anything to do with have thick
enough armour to shrug off laser fire, or at least cause it to do only
surface damage. Most other design bureaus follow similar rules. Surface
damage is essentially to secondary weapons (turrets), sensors and power
plant radiators, and most military ships have redundancy in these systems.

No nukes limits the effectivness of missiles to BB type weapons, or to
combustion lasers which suffer from the Laser limit above.

Rule 4 is what lets big ships kill large numbers of small ones. Imagine one
large ship with a particle weapon that penetrates the small ships out to 2
light-seconds, facing a number of small ships whose weapons only go to one
light-second. The small ships will have to spend maneuver to close 300
000km, making them more vulnerable to fire. The big ship has the option of
spending all it's maneuverability on dodging, or on keeping the range open.

Therefore, although it is cheap to arm ships in Traveller (perhaps MCr 2
plus a dton of space), it is not cheap to build a ship that will be
effective against combat ships.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:54:43 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat

At 02:25 18/09/98 -0800, Peter Newman wrote:

>So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able to
>interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the time]. 
>If shew successfully interrupts she gets to take her action and he has
>lost his action.  If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go after
>him & cannot suffer a mishap.
>
>LESSON - _Always_ let the other party go first and then interrupt them. 
>If you go first they will interrupt you (probably sucessfully) and you
>will loose your action.  If you let them go first you will be able to
>interrupt them (probably sucessfully) and they will then loose their
>action.  You can _not_ suffer any mishaps or loose your action by trying
>and failing to interrupt.

I've always taken the interrupt to simply go first - being interrupted
doesn't cost you the action, it just means that you will go after the
person who interrupted you.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:06:46 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

At 13:54 18/09/98 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>Note! This will not apply to New Zealand or Australia since they've
>already experienced these meltdowns in major urban areas...and so far
>the news reports haven't looked like "Road Warrior" time over there...

Just business as usual - fire a few scapegoats and give the real perps a
payrise :(

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:00:14 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Abbrev.

Bloo said:

>LOL: Lots of Laughs

not to stray too far off topic, but I've seen this one translated as
"Laugh Out Loud" also.

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:31:58 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders

> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
> I had the impression that since the 3I appeared decentralized, the
> corporations and shipowners were responsible for their own security, hence the
> security school special duty assignment in the Merchant Prince Chargen tables.
> If private security can run around as semi military organizations, then I
> asume that Imperial (or individual world govs for that matter) government
> security must be awsome (especially since every PC runs around in scouts and
> 'merchies with weapon turrets); not to mention the Navy, and Army being
> available to back up security....

IMTU, you do not even want to think about trying to breach 3I security... 
The 3I uses Psionics at all levels...  Telepaths to scan minds... 
Clairvoyants<sp> to watch doors...  Telekinetics<sp>..to bar doors... 
Teleporters as a ready reaction force...  Awares as shock troops...

High tech is great, but what happens when you do not use high tech, but the
power of the mind?

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:39:37 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and measurement stuff

> Imperial scientists today announced that 1+1 is, in fact, not 2.  It is
> actually 1.999999999564.  The impact on galactic economics is currently
> being speculated.  Long-held mathematical beliefs and scientific
assumptions
> and formulas will all need to be reevaluated in the upcoming weeks.
> 
> Dan

Zhodani Concialate<sp> scientists announced today that in responce to the
Imperial announcement of their finds, that they we wrong.  The true answer
they said is actually 2.00000000000000000001.

In a simular statement today on Regina in the Spinward Marches, a thin,
well dressed gentleman took over the local IBS station & I quote "Who the
hell cares if 1 + 1 is equal to 1.999999999564 or 2.00000000000000000001,
what does it matter, if when you round it up they both equal 2."  He later
escaped from Imperial Security forces via an unknown route.  Archduke Noris
was quoted as saying, "While I agree with the message, I do not agree with
the means that it was delivered to us.  The gentlemen who took over the
Regina IBS Station will be captured & held over for trial."

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 01:26:30 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

On 09/18/98 at 08:03 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>>This is blashphemy, but Traveller is my second favorite thing to do on a
>>Sunday afternoon....smirck :-) I have to be a lecherous old goat...

>Sunday afternoons?  Go 49ers!!!

Given the context of the previous posts...that's kinky! ;->

Ob, Traveller...no *not* that!  Sports...NO, not that!!! ;-p

Has anyone had any ideas on how team sports would play out in an
Imperium setting?  The travel times would pretty much eliminate the
idea of multi-system leagues, but World Cup style contests should be
possible.  

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:29:26 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Has anyone had any ideas on how team sports would play out in an
> Imperium setting?  The travel times would pretty much eliminate the
> idea of multi-system leagues, but World Cup style contests should be
> possible.

Baseball is a must.  As is Soccer.  Cricket for Vilani purebloods.
Gravball (which I imagine is some sort of basketball offshoot)
for the fast moving big-body stuff.

At the professional level, these will need to be played in gravity-controlled
environments to have an even playing field.  Some parallel for American
football and Rugby Union would be nice as well.

I suppose a dangerous sport for Vilani is eating without their shugilii.
And maybe they go in for decade-long games of three-dimensional
Go.

Bloo
(Craps, anyone?)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:24:15 PDT
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Your Mileage My Vary

>>>So I can see the Third Imperium having a "mile" as a unit that's tied 
to
>>>planetary size! :-)
>>
>> I think that given the overall size of the Imperium, its SI units
>> would be based upon some physical constant independent of any world
>> (such as the ring/ray coordinate system).
>
>You misunderstood my idea. I was proposing that for surface
>navigational purposes a "nautical mile" equal to 1 arc minute on the
>planetary equator might be used. 

Could this be the true origin of the term: "YMMV"? :)

- - --
Patrik Holmstrm
glappkaeft@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:30:22 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: T4 Miner career

I have created a Miner career for my T4 campaign. Take a look at my
homepage, Traveller section.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:53:45 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

Traveller Sports

  Droyne ???

  Atmospheric Rentry

  Gas Giant Surfing (or is it Gravity wells)

  Grav Biking

  ATV rallies - the contest will cover 4 desolate worlds
of various types of exotic or insidious atmospheres.

  Ken Holmes Jaberwok hunting.

  War (This mercenary unit is sponsored by Susag, the TV rights
are owned by Tukera etc)




Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:55:26 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller ???

  Hi 

  Did someone have some Traveller starships and rules that they
had developed into GURPS rules.  That is other than Loren and
the SJG crew.

  Thanks in advance.




Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:56:14 -0500
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Original Striker for Auction

I received the following auction notice and thought some of
you might have an interest.


- -- quote --

Subject: 
        Odd Lots
  Date: 
        Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:49:19 -0700
  From: 
        oss1ncrp@maple.northcoast.com
    To: 
        oss1ncrp@maple.northcoast.com


If you do not respond to this post, you will not receive any more
updates.

We ask for a minimum bid raise of $1.  Highest bid will be based on
earliest response in case of a tie.  All the books are used but in great
shape unless noted.  This auciton will run for 15 updates.

GDW 704
Striker 15mm rules for Traveller Miniatures
Boxed set complete with original dice and registration card
Box has some slight wear and a few stress lines.  The Books are used but
in
excellent shape (nor rips, tears, etc.)
Minmum Bid - $12



Please send all bids to:

oss1ncrp@mail.northcoast.com


- -- endquote --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:30:07 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(The survivalists have risen again...now instead of nuclear war or
financial meltdown, the Y2K crisis is gonna cause all the cities to
collapse because all eleictricity and water will shut down 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I worked computer support for NYSEG, a utility company in New
York State a couple years back. I can't speak for other utility
companies elsewhere, but I have complete confidence that my
lights will still be on come 01-JAN-00.

You see, they still have all the equipment for manually directing power
supplies. The managers in charge of the plants have been working
since the 1960's, even the plants NYSEG sold to other people but
still buy power from. Many of these managers still treat computers
with distrust and disrespect - if year 2000 kills these computers,
these managers will shrug, say "I told you so" and implement
long-emplaced procedures for running the grid with little or no
computer support.

Heck, most of their _linemen_ have been working since the 1960's,
at least the line bosses.

You might see some brown-outs and errors, but we'll be fine. And their
IT department is on the ball as well, due to the very draconian audit
procedures the New York state government has on them.

ObTrav: Traveller still uses SMG's, shotguns and swords. There are
reasons for keeping "obsolete" tech around.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:37:35 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re:  Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

"johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>What is this 'Board' of which you speak, and what business is it of theirs
>what you have on your computer?

Board of Education, and technically it's _their_ computer. 

I'm a teacher, and "my kids" are my students. Maybe I'm too possessive,
but I spend more time with some of them than their parents do. I'm pulling
60-70 hour weeks, and when some smarmy bureaucrat with the IQ of a
lukewarm pile of shit creates meaningless rules and makes meaningless
changes, costing me extra hours of work and frustrating my gentle child
who has maybe two years left to live anyway, well...

Sorry for the outburst. Had to cry on someone's shoulder. Heartfelt thanks
to everyone who has offered advice and equipment.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:59:33 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller ???

>http://www.io.com/~tsarith/Gurpstraveller/

Are there any others ?



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:11:50 EDT
From: Gr1zzly1@aol.com
Subject: remove

please remove me from the list

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:41:31 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

At 01:26 AM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On 09/18/98 at 08:03 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:

>>Sunday afternoons?  Go 49ers!!!
>
>Given the context of the previous posts...that's kinky! ;->

Considering the rumors we keep hearing about Steve Young.. (hint: he seems
to get engaged only after he's had a concussion)

>Has anyone had any ideas on how team sports would play out in an
>Imperium setting?  The travel times would pretty much eliminate the
>idea of multi-system leagues, but World Cup style contests should be
>possible.  

In my Lunion Subsector setting, Rollerball is the sport of choice.  Based
on the short story/movie; I've even started sketching out rules.  The two
most powerful leagues are on Lunion and Strouden, and every three years the
Strouden Cup series is held between all-star teams from the worlds of the
subsector.

For some reason, the thought of 0-g sports don't really move me that much.
Track and field, gymnastics.. the traditional sports all survive.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:42:44 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

At 01:53 PM 9/19/98 +0100, you wrote:

>  Gas Giant Surfing (or is it Gravity wells)

Solar-sail regattas.
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:46:37 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

At 11:42 AM 9/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Mr. Berry, Do you all end up converting from FFS2 to Traveller:TNE?  Why
>doesn't eveyone still use FFS from GDW?

Well, FFS2 is just better.  Much more detail, fixed some problems that FFS1
had.  Also, I don't play TNE, so converting to that era isn't really a
question for me.  

Having said that, I'd love to have Andy put BL/BR stats into his
spreadsheets.  Those remain my second and thrid favorite space combat
games, righ behind Full Thrust.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:31:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

Walter Smith wrote:

> I worked computer support for NYSEG, a utility company in New
> York State a couple years back. I can't speak for other utility
> companies elsewhere, but I have complete confidence that my
> lights will still be on come 01-JAN-00.
>
snip...

I agree, most utilities won't have the dire troubles that are being predicted.

Likewise water. Hell, in NYC they have no choice about the water, it's coming
down through the aqueduct whether they like it or not! The big bronze valves
haven't been closed since they were opened in what, the early teens?

Saw a special about the'new' aqueduct being built under the city (it's been
being built for something like 25 years...) will actually have valves that can
close. But again, those old ones were designed to close, too...80 or 90 years ago.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:10:44 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

Ice Hockey, ICE HOCKEY!....Here is the twist. Play it on some wierd, dangerous
substance? :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:21:56 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

At 01:10 PM 9/19/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Ice Hockey, ICE HOCKEY!....Here is the twist. Play it on some wierd,
dangerous substance? :-)

Like slippery, rock-hard ice isn't dangerous enough?
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:40:58 -0400
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfreitas@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Superconductors: carbon composites

FYI:

    Researchers at the University of Buffallo (sp?)  have reported finding room
temperature superconductivity in carbon composite materials.  Attempts to
find more information on the subject have been met with polite refusals from
University staff.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 13:21:02 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

On 09/19/98 at 01:10 PM,  Sethkimmel@aol.com said:

>Ice Hockey, ICE HOCKEY!....Here is the twist. Play it on some wierd,
>dangerous substance? :-)

Ummm...like ice? ;-p

Due to the travel times in Traveller, I don't think pan-Imperium
leagues are really possible, although there might be a way to have
something like an Imperium Cup. Maybe each "important" system has a
league (of whatever sport we're dealing with), and it sends it's
champion (or an all-star team) to represent the system in the
sub-sector tournament, the winner of which, then moves on to the
sector tournament, and so on up to the Imperium wide round.  

We'd probably be talking about a once every 8 or 12 years cycle,
giving our stellar athlete a once in a career shot at going for "The
Cup."  The system might send out a team composed of mostly young
players who mature over the years long tournaments until the teams
arriving at the Imperial level are almost all older athletes at (or
past) the peak of their careers.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:32:14 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> >Peter Newman wrote:
> >
> >> So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able to
> >> interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the time].
> >> If shew successfully interrupts she gets to take her action and he has
> >> lost his action.  If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go after
> >> him & cannot suffer a mishap.
> >>
> >
> >Normall, this is true. IIRC, a unit engaged in hand-to-hand combat may not
> >interrupt. So Betty can't interrupt anybody.
>
> This still means that interrupts have excessive power, in that it takes a
> very easy roll to prevent an enemy's task from being completed.  I imagine
> some future combats where each side, waiting for the other to make its move
> so they can interrupt, stand frozen, looking into each other's eyes, very
> dramatic, but not terribly useful.
>

That strikes me as an accurate portrayal of the initial stages of real combat.
But I'm not that experienced at it, though.

Also, an interrupt doesn't prevent the interrupted party from completing its
move. After the interrupt is over, the interrupted side finishes its turn. The
MT rules don't say this; it's in one of the errata. So, if I'm interrupting you,
I have to successfully interrupt you, and whatever I'm doing has to be
successful, or you'll still get to finish.

> Example : Joe and Jane have initiative over Fred and Frieda.  Joe is trying
> to put the candlestick back into the wall sconce, which would close the
> secret passage, sealing off the bad guys.  Fred, seeing this, interrupts
> Joe's action (assuming success) and tries to shoot him - Joe takes cover,
> his action ruined.  Jane (Joe's friend) interrupts Fred's fire task with
> one of her own.  Freida (Fred's Friend) can't interrupt (since her side
> used its one interrupt this round), but she can shoot at people, but her
> damage (to Jane) will occur after her fire task is complete (since Jane's
> side has initiative).
>

Not quite. It's like this: Joe tries to put the candlestick back. Fred
sucessfully interrupts and tries to shoot him. If Fred misses, or doesn't
disable Joe with the shot, Joe DOES put the candlestick back right after Fred
finishes shooting.

Similarly, if Jane successfully interrupts Fred, Jane must disable Fred with her
shot, or Fred will shoot at Joe. If Jane misses, then Fred shoots.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #830
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 831



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
Re: Bad uniform ideas...
Re: Traveller Sports
Bwap subsector duke...
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
FYI: DD-21
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: T4 Miner career
hobby shop
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Traveller Sports
FYI: The NCIS
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Traveller Sports
Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Solar-sail regattas
Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
BITS 101 Religions - A review (of sorts)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 14:45:30 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

On 09/18/98 at 11:32 AM,  Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> said:

>Not quite. It's like this: Joe tries to put the candlestick back.
>Fred sucessfully interrupts and tries to shoot him. If Fred misses,
>or doesn't disable Joe with the shot, Joe DOES put the candlestick
>back right after Fred finishes shooting.

>Similarly, if Jane successfully interrupts Fred, Jane must disable
>Fred with her shot, or Fred will shoot at Joe. If Jane misses, then
>Fred shoots.

Now, *this* makes sense to me! 

If the interrupt succeeds the interrupter goes first, but unless
his action causes the interruptee to lose her turn she still gets to
complete it next.


- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:02:55 -0400
From: "Kenneth Zepernick" <kez101@fidnet.com>
Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...

- ----------
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
> To: traveller@tansoft.com
> Subject: Re: Bad uniform ideas...
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 12:38 AM
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> >> The M-17A1 Protective mask and MOPP-4 chemical warfare gear.  Try
firing a
> >> M-16A1 wearing heavy charcol-impregnanted clothes, thick rubber
gloves, and
> >> a heavy mask that doesn't allow you to wear your glasses.
> 
> Since when do they allow combat troops who *need* glasses?
> 
Actually the masks the Army uses has corrective lens inserts that fit on
the insiide of the mask.  Proof you don't need to be perfect to be a grunt.
Been there.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:00 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

>Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 13:21:02 -0500
>From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

>On 09/19/98 at 01:10 PM,  Sethkimmel@aol.com said:

>>Ice Hockey, ICE HOCKEY!....Here is the twist. Play it on some wierd,
>>dangerous substance? :-)

>Ummm...like ice? ;-p

>Due to the travel times in Traveller, I don't think pan-Imperium
>leagues are really possible, although there might be a way to have
>something like an Imperium Cup.

Doesn't the Imperial Olympic's exist's in canon?  How regularily are they
held?

(Of course, the name could be just as accurate as the "World Series":
instead of being Imperium wide, it could only consist's of Core system's...)

Off topic: could ther be any Six Races - wide association? Some
scientific and/or trade and/or religious association of that size?

("Six Races" = Human, Droyne, Aslan, K'kree, Hiver, Vargr.  You
could split the "Human" to Solomani, Vilani and Zhodani, but that would
mess everything up...)

Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:32:20 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: Bwap subsector duke...

I plan to make a Bwap the subsector duke of Lentuli subsector,
Empty Quarter.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Bwap name generator, or know anything
about Bwap family structure.  I do know that they resemble
salmander's, have an obsession for order and propriety, 
and are extremely widespread bureaucrat's found throughout the area of
the ex-First Imperium (this includes the Julian Protectorate, but not 
the Domain of Deneb... often).  They also need ultra-humid atmosphere's
(98% humidity, please).

What percentage of the population of Lentuli subsector should be
Bwapian, a very successful minor race based here?  
Perhaps 10% - 25%?

Also, can someone here who has good knowledge about the Bwap's
describe a "family shield" that a Bwap noble would use?  I have heard that
it would be based on their spotted hide....

Finally, what is their name for Mahaban, their homeworld?

Alvin Plummer
(...and all this stem's from some ancient Contact article written ten
year's ago. Sigh....)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:11:33 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Jens Wrote:

>I have created a Miner career for my T4 campaign. Take a look at my
>homepage, Traveller section.

                            1.500
                            2.500
                            3.750
                            4.1000
                            5.2000
                            6.3000
                            7.5000
I think that 5. 5000
                 6. 50000
                 7. 500000

just in case that they do have a decent strike during their carreer.

7.High passage
should be
7. Seeker   same rules as merchants recieving ships

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:15:18 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 01:26 AM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >On 09/18/98 at 08:03 AM,  dberry@hooked.net said:
>
> >>Sunday afternoons?  Go 49ers!!!
> >
> >Given the context of the previous posts...that's kinky! ;->
>
> Considering the rumors we keep hearing about Steve Young.. (hint: he seems
> to get engaged only after he's had a concussion)

Doesn't he have to play with his Mormon sacred undergarments on?
He probably gets engaged when hes had, or been caught, having
premarital sex which is a big no-no for the allegedly practicing Mormon.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:20:31 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

"Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu> wrote

> >Peter Newman wrote:

> >> So if both Billy and Betty are human [Speed 2] Betty will be able 
> >> to interrupt Betty on a roll of 5+ [30 out 0f 36 or 83.33% of the 
> >> time]. If she successfully interrupts she gets to take her action 
> >> and he has lost his action. 

Actually this posting of mine is in error.  An interrupt does _not_
cause the interrupted party to loose their action, they still get to
take it after the interrupt (If they are still alive...).

The line in the MT PM that says interrupted units loose their action is
a typo which is corrected in the errata (The paper errata which came in
later printings of the boxed set, I do not know where on the web it is
but I know I have seen it somewhere).

> >> If she fails her interrupt she still gets to go after him & cannot 
> >> suffer a mishap.

> >Normally, this is true. IIRC, a unit engaged in hand-to-hand combat 
> >may not interrupt. So Betty can't interrupt anybody.

Not as far as I know.  What is your source for this?

> This still means that interrupts have excessive power, in that it 
> takes a very easy roll to prevent an enemy's task from being 
> completed.  I imagine some future combats where each side, waiting for 
> the other to make its move so they can interrupt, stand frozen, 
> looking into each other's eyes, very dramatic, but not terribly 
> useful.

This might be usefull for Traveller: Kurosawa Movies or Traveller:
Westerns but is fortunately not the case in general.

> Interrupts cannot be performed by suprised parties.

Logically this would be the case however the rules, as written indicate
otherwise.

They say  "The benefits of surprise: A party with surprise may freely
attack until surprise is lost.  The surprised party continues with the
action they were performing before the combat occured and cannot attack
in return.  Members of the attacking party may each make one surprise
attack.  If surprise is not lost, each party may make another surprise
attack (this continues until surprise is lost)." (pg 67 MT PM)

Now the rules say that the surprised party may not attack, they do not
however say that the surprised party may not _interrupt_.  Therefore as
written a surprised party could interrupt they just could not attack if
the interrupt were successful.  Therefore as written you could interrupt
someone who has surprised you and is about to shoot you in the back by
interrupting their action and say diving for cover. This is, shall we
say somewhat questionable on the grounds of realism.

[Unless you choose to interpret the line saying "The surprised party
continues with the action they were performing before the combat
occured" to mean that the surprised party may not do anything else. 
This would seem to be logical but is directly contradicted by the
remainder of the sentance which says " and cannot attack in return." and
does not say may not do _anything_ in return.] 

When discussing interrupts, the rules say (pg 68 MT PM) "Interrupts: A
unit from the opposing side (which has not yet taken a turn) can choose
to interrupt another unit's turn."

Notice that the rules _do_not_ say the unit can choose to interrupt
unless they were surprised.  Therefore, as written, surprised units
_can_ perform interrupts.  I do not think that this makes much sense but
this is what the rules, as written, say. [Although it may not be what
they _intended_ to say.]

> Interrupts may only be performed once per side.

Well actually the rules say  "Only one _active_ interrupt may be
performed per side."  Passive interrupts are not clearly defined but
IIRC multiple passive interrupt would be allowed.  For example on the
previous turn 3 player charecters could have their guns pointed down the
hall and they could all say that if any enemies came around the corner
they would interrupt the enemies movement by shooting at them.  This
would be legal, according to my understanding of the rules.

Notwithstanding the difference between active and passive interrupts the
example we were discussing was a one on one brawl  so this was
immaterial.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:14:37 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: FYI: DD-21

For those naval designer's who might want to check
out how a current new warship is being developed, 
try http://sc21.crane.navy.mil/ and http://www.nswc.navy.mil/DD21/
just for ideas....

Alvin Plummer
"Senso?  Got anything on radar?"
"Just my forehead, sir."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:28:52 -0500
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

> Having said that, I'd love to have Andy put BL/BR stats into his
> spreadsheets.  Those remain my second and thrid favorite space combat
> games, righ behind Full Thrust.

I'm working on it as we speak...about 1/2 done with BL.

Expected finish time...2 weeks...

Anything to make you happy Doug :)

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:11:14 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Charles R Hensley wrote:

> I think that 5. 5000
>                  6. 50000
>                  7. 500000
> 
> just in case that they do have a decent strike during their carreer.

:-)   Well, perhaps, but not *that* extreme...

> 7.High passage
> should be
> 7. Seeker   same rules as merchants recieving ships

What is a 'Seeker' ?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:17:41 -0700
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: hobby shop

I'm on a business trip in Montreal.  Anyone know of any hobby shops
here?

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:51:28 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Charles R Hensley wrote:
> 
> > I think that 5. 5000
> >                  6. 50000
> >                  7. 500000
> >
> > just in case that they do have a decent strike during their carreer.
> 
> :-)   Well, perhaps, but not *that* extreme...
> 
Maybe a roll of 7 for 100000?

> > 7.High passage
> > should be
> > 7. Seeker   same rules as merchants recieving ships
> 
> What is a 'Seeker' ?
> 
A Seeker is a modified Type S scout/courier, optimized for asteroid
mining.  T4 doesn't have a description (frankly, neither do I), but if
you replace a stateroom or two with additional cargo space, and fit the
optional weapons mount with a laser optimized for cutting asteroids into
manageable chunks, you'll have a pretty fair approximation.

Hope this helps....

<<snips sig file>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:10:22
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller Sports
>
>On 09/19/98 at 01:10 PM,  Sethkimmel@aol.com said:
>
>Due to the travel times in Traveller, I don't think pan-Imperium
>leagues are really possible, although there might be a way to have
>something like an Imperium Cup. Maybe each "important" system has a
>league (of whatever sport we're dealing with), and it sends it's
>champion (or an all-star team) to represent the system in the
>sub-sector tournament, the winner of which, then moves on to the
>sector tournament, and so on up to the Imperium wide round.  
>
>We'd probably be talking about a once every 8 or 12 years cycle,
>giving our stellar athlete a once in a career shot at going for "The
>Cup."  The system might send out a team composed of mostly young
>players who mature over the years long tournaments until the teams
>arriving at the Imperial level are almost all older athletes at (or
>past) the peak of their careers.

Cricket has been doing international tours since the 1870s.

The 'classic' English tour of Australia involved a 2 month-long boat trip,
with perhaps a side trip to South Africa or New Zealand.

I can easily see a sports league that has players on a cycle of play for a
week, do 2 jumps to the next match, play for a week etc.

Whether that is one 5 day game, or 5 individual one day games isnt
important - you still get a quite viable interstellar league.

Assuming jump-5 ships (which isnt unreasonable), a 2 month trip at 3.5
parsecs a week will take you about 30 parsecs.

More interestingly, many of the international tours in the Golden Age
(before the War) were orginised by individual rich patrons, such as the
team Lord Sheffield sent out to Australia in the 1870s.

International cricket tours were also seen as a semi-diplomatic event, a
way of keeping the Empire together (which is part of why the USA, despite
having a better than decent team up until 1920 or so, was frozen out of
international cricket).

Then you have the modern tradition of the club rugby tour - my old club
(Petersham, which is older than not merely the NFL and the NBA, but also
the oldest of the American baseball clubs) sends a team to Britain every 2
years.

Imagine your poor innocent Far Trader getting chartered by a bunch of rugby
players on tour ... 

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:43:14 -0400
From: "alvin plummer" <aplummer@idirect.com>
Subject: FYI: The NCIS

The NCIS (U.S. Naval Criminal Investigation Service,
http://www.ncis.navy.mil/ )
is *not* a uniformed branch of the U.S.Navy, but instead something
like the Navy's FBI, doing criminal investigations etc.  Besides general
crime, the NCIS also does investigation into Procurment Fraud, a major
juristiction rigamore I suspect.  Typical problems involve "kick backs,
product substitution, cost mischarging, environmental crimes, and
defective pricing. "

It also has a counterdrug program.   Basically, just before a carrier group
dock's into a port, these agent's fan into a city and, with the help of
the local police, round up the drug merchant's and keep them in
prison till the carrier group leaves.

Question: should this be part of the MoJ brief, or should this kind
of work be part of the Imperial Navy's juristiction?  ( And if IN, uniformed
or non-uniformed?)

Or - as the Imperium is so big, and agent's so comparatively few -
should this kind of thing be left to the intitative of the law enforcement
agency at the spot?

And incidentally, who is the Royal Navy counterpart, if any?

Alvin Plummer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:58:27 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

Ian or Katts wrote:

> Then you have the modern tradition of the club rugby tour - my old club
> (Petersham, which is older than not merely the NFL and the NBA, but also
> the oldest of the American baseball clubs) sends a team to Britain every 2
> years.
>
> Imagine your poor innocent Far Trader getting chartered by a bunch of rugby
> players on tour ...

That would be one adventure where I would want to play myself.
12 years in the front row and you learn a thing or three.

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 21:31:02 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

Ian or Katts wrote:

> Imagine your poor innocent Far Trader getting chartered by a bunch
> of rugby players on tour ...

Why do you think I brought it up?  ;-> Not saying I've got this in
mind, but...

Once the intrepid crew of the 'Mae Lee' finally get their ship
working they'll desperately need to earn some cash and a guaranteed
charter is a good way to do it.  However, the only charter available
is a team of footballers on tour.  The team's manager promises a
really big bonus if the crew can keep the team's star player and
major head-banger, "Booger" Knurtski, out of trouble for the rest of
the tour.  Booger has other ideas...;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:06:26 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> > Imagine your poor innocent Far Trader getting chartered by a bunch
> > of rugby players on tour ...
> 
> Why do you think I brought it up?  ;-> Not saying I've got this in
> mind, but...
> 
> Once the intrepid crew of the 'Mae Lee' finally get their ship
> working they'll desperately need to earn some cash and a guaranteed
> charter is a good way to do it.  However, the only charter available
> is a team of footballers on tour.  The team's manager promises a
> really big bonus if the crew can keep the team's star player and
> major head-banger, "Booger" Knurtski, out of trouble for the rest of
> the tour.  Booger has other ideas...;->
> 
Unless the contract *specifically* forbids it, I suspect that low
berthing would be _just_ the thing for "Booger" Knurtski.  After all,
lock him in "the icebox", and he emerges upon reaching the destination,
without having suffered from a lack of workouts (Free and Far Traders
being without gym facilities), well rested and ready to crack some
heads....

If "Booger" objects, well, then have Michael "Mickey" Finn buy him a
drink or two....  >;-)

> Eris
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:32:23 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Solar-sail regattas

Doug Berry mentions Solar-sail regattas as a future sport.

There is mention of this in FF&S2.  That was based on post to the gearhead
list by a member of my RPG group, Mitch "Ted7" Schwartz.

BITS has contacted him about expanding this into some kind of module.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:04:41 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

Black Ice wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Unless the contract *specifically* forbids it, I suspect that low
berthing would be _just_ the thing for "Booger" Knurtski.  After all,
lock him in "the icebox", and he emerges upon reaching the destination,
without having suffered from a lack of workouts (Free and Far Traders
being without gym facilities), well rested and ready to crack some
heads....

If "Booger" objects, well, then have Michael "Mickey" Finn buy him a
drink or two....  >;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just an idea...

The heroes put the troublesome "Booger" on ice, and prepare to wake
him up at journey's end. As they're warming up the icebox, a whole
bunch of indicators go bright flashing red - it seems ol' Booger had
a bad reaction to the procedure, it's going to take a visit to a very
high-tech hospital to wake Mr. Booger up safely - and that high-tech
hospital is too many parsecs away to reach before the big game.

Now that the players are smacking themselves for trying to smart their
way out of putting up with Booger for a couple weeks, they have to meet
the patron's contact on the game planet and try to tell him why his
star player is doing a frozen steak imitation.

"Fred, this is *not* going to work."
"Relax Jonny...just wear Booger's helmet and jersey for a few days,
and remember to scratch yourself a lot...hush, here comes the coach!!"

Now, just for fun, have the desperate medic on the pc's crew have another
go at waking Booger up...and have her succeed, sort of. A very strong,
very disoriented Booger wanders out of sick bay, maybe even manages
to get as far as the sports arena in his spare jersey...so we can have
two "Boogers" wandering about.     ;)


Walt Smith
(No, I did *not* borrow this plot from a Disney movie. So there!  :)  )

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 01:06:39 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

On 09/20/98 at 01:04 AM,  "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu> said:

>Black Ice wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Unless the contract *specifically* forbids it, I suspect that low
>berthing would be _just_ the thing for "Booger" Knurtski.  After all,
>lock him in "the icebox", and he emerges upon reaching the
>destination, without having suffered from a lack of workouts (Free
>and Far Traders being without gym facilities), well rested and ready
>to crack some heads....

>If "Booger" objects, well, then have Michael "Mickey" Finn buy him a
>drink or two....  >;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Just an idea...

>The heroes put the troublesome "Booger" on ice, and prepare to wake
>him up at journey's end. As they're warming up the icebox, a whole
>bunch of indicators go bright flashing red - it seems ol' Booger had
>a bad reaction to the procedure, it's going to take a visit to a very
>high-tech hospital to wake Mr. Booger up safely - and that high-tech
>hospital is too many parsecs away to reach before the big game.

I'm not commenting on *any* of this, because I still *might* offer
this contract to the party and see how they handle it.  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:59:52 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: BITS 101 Religions - A review (of sorts)

At 01:18 PM 9/7/98 -0500, Dom wrote:
...
>
>If anyone impartial wants to post a review, please do so!
>

101 Religions just arrived, compliments of the USPS and Leisure Games, so
here goes:

101R follows the general format of its predecessor "Little White Books" -
digest-sized, 48 pages, clear plastic covers.  14 general types of
religions (e.g., Dualism, Crisis Monotheism, Animism, etc.) are detailed,
with, oddly enough, 101 specific examples.  Each example includes a
description, some referee notes, and one or two plot hooks.  One religion
type, "Other Beliefs and Cults", consists of a half dozen fringe religions
- - truly weird stuff!  A one-page glossary defines the various technical (?)
terms used throughout...  The  various descriptions are terse - nothing
like the Runequest Cult descriptions, for example.  Consider this to be a
collection of ideas - good ones - and you'll be a happy buyer.  I was
particularly taken by the Monastic Order of St. Marc - The Marcers
(pronounced Markers) are dedicated to the preservation of knowledge and
learning... in the vein of St. Leibowitz, but with a decidedly Traveller
slant.  The name rings a bell, somehow...  

I thought it well worth the price - including postage, about $8.50 (4.95
sterling plus postage) - and encourage everybody to buy a copy, thereby
assuring the retirement, in luxury, of Andy Lilly and his BITS cohorts.
It's certainly affordable,  and you get a bit for the money...

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #831
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 832



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Sports
Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: BITS 101 Religions - A review (of sorts)
Re: T5 skills
Re: T5 skills
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: [T98#821] Metric
Re: Transponders
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: TL 6-8 planetary defence (was rocketry 100)
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports) 
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Re : Re Rocketry 100

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:33:24 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

My current active character (TNE) is a past Gravball player. Like a fair
number of modern-day athletes he went into commentary after the bod went (and
before getting stuck on Gilligan's Planet, but that's a different story). I
assumed a subsector-or-so league structure. Travel times aren't a big issue
because of the nature of the sport. Long lead times between games means proper
medical attention can be paid to injured athletes (now there's a ship design
idea: Team ship - almost as many sickbay beds as passenger staterooms).

As for larger organizations, travel times do get prohibitive beyond the sector
level, and you are also likely to get regional variations - witness how many
things we call 'football' even now.

 Being a fan of the Captain Serrano books by Elizabeth Moon, I tend toward
equestrian sports at some level as well.  Golf would also adapt well...

 As for Droyne sports (ugh, an in-pun) I will never forget the super-kinetic,
Artifact-assisted game of Aztech dodgeball (in the Southpark sense) I played
in a convention Traveller game once. Two teams limited to their halves of the
field, surrounded by walls which would bounce the heavy ball with no energy
loss, and an opposing team of specially bred Droyne "Warriors." Wheee!

GypsyComet

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:29:10
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
of choice for belters.

I'm more inclined to think it would be a 20-30 dton launch, fitted out with
closed life support that is taken to and from systems by Free Trader -
otherwise you have all this cost and space taken up by jump drives you dont
use much.

The other option is even simpler - just a quonet hut equivalent, sealed
against vacuum as a base for propsecting work done on foot on some moonlet.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:02:55 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Ian or Katts wrote:

> I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
> of choice for belters.
> 
> I'm more inclined to think it would be a 20-30 dton launch, fitted out with
> closed life support that is taken to and from systems by Free Trader -
> otherwise you have all this cost and space taken up by jump drives you dont
> use much.
> 
> The other option is even simpler - just a quonet hut equivalent, sealed
> against vacuum as a base for propsecting work done on foot on some moonlet.

Wouldn't a Modular cutter with a small "home base" module be a perfect
vessel for in-system miners? Just move out to the mineral findings, set up
the base, place a cover over the modular space (in order to use it as
plain cargo space), and start mining.

If you want to move to other systems, you could always rent passage for
you and your ship on a trader of some kind.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:17:25 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

Ian or Katts wrote:

> The other option is even simpler - just a quonet hut equivalent, sealed
> against vacuum as a base for propsecting work done on foot on some moonlet.

Isn't there an example of this in some Traveller write-up in the Web
somewhere?  There is a medical facility that blows up, and part of
it is an escape pod.  There's a Vargr in a cargo bay with explosive cargo,
a stressed out pilot, everything going to Vland in a Handbasket.
And a couple of paragraphs about a miner on an asteroid watching it.


And, IIRC, there is a similar situation in one of Peter Hamilton's books,
but I could be blurring things here.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:28:35 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Ian or Katts wrote:
>
> > Imagine your poor innocent Far Trader getting chartered by a bunch
> > of rugby players on tour ...
>
> Why do you think I brought it up?  ;-> Not saying I've got this in
> mind, but...
>
> Once the intrepid crew of the 'Mae Lee' finally get their ship
> working they'll desperately need to earn some cash and a guaranteed
> charter is a good way to do it.  However, the only charter available
> is a team of footballers on tour.

American football?  Or Soccer?  Rugby players are more of a threat
overall
since they are as physically powerful and destructive as American
footballers,
but they don't need the extra-confidence and sense of security that pads

and helmets give.  Need to break through a bulkhead?  Put your
waterknife
away.  Just say "Ruck over!"

Hehe.  I start playing again next week!
[lowers head and paws ground with foot like a bull getting ready to
charge]

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:30:45 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: BITS 101 Religions - A review (of sorts)

Bill Rutherford wrote:

> I was particularly taken by the Monastic Order of St. Marc - The Marcers
> (pronounced Markers) are dedicated to the preservation of knowledge and
> learning... in the vein of St. Leibowitz, but with a decidedly Traveller
> slant.  The name rings a bell, somehow...

WOOHOO!  That ones mine!  I'm not familiar with the St. Leibowitz books
except by title.  Maybe I'll check them out.

For (T4) character generation about these Monks, check out:

http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/monks.htm

(I really need to get on the webring)

The term "Marcers" does double duty by mentioning the Saint they
follow and that they often teach the lowest tech worlds how to
make "marks", i.e, to read and write.  I also call them "Keepers
of Books" as they maintain libraries.  The largest on Ton Vorn.

IMHO, its the most playable of the careers, and particularly the
religious careers, that I've made up.  I've used "philosophy" as
a substitute for "religion" skill.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:04:45 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: T5 skills

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote,
>> Wouldn't Underwater and 0G be very similar?  I realize they are not
>> identical, but since NASA puts the astronauts underwater to simulate
>> micro-G, IMO, they are close enough for government work.
>
>Not really. Underwater teaches you about the "no weight" bit fairly
>well. What it *can't* teach you is the "no resistance" part.

There's an interesting article on weightlessness and the human body in
September's Scientific American.  I'd add "no direction down" to
Leonard's list, which messes up the motion sensors in your ears and
screws up your sense of orientation.
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:48:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: T5 skills

In mail you write:

> Bloo replied:
>>
>>Smart, David J (David) wrote:
>>
>>> I've always made Env. Combat a cascade requiring a specialization in
>>> either Hi-G, 0G, or Underwater. Just a thought.
>>
>>Wouldn't Underwater and 0G be very similar?  I realize they are not
>>identical, but since NASA puts the astronauts underwater to simulate
>>micro-G, IMO, they are close enough for government work.
>
> You're right but as Leonard said, the similarities stop where
> resistance from the water begins and, IMO, this can be a critical
> difference in combat.

Also, I forgot to mention that it takes a lot of work to get the
astronauts in the simulator weighted to "neutral bouyancy". Any
deviation from this and you have a net drift up or down. 

And things like firing weapons, using air, or picking up/dropping items
will change your bouyancy. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:01:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

In mail you write:

> What is this 'Board' of which you speak, and what business is it of theirs
> what you have on your computer?

I think Rob is a teacher, and the "kids" are his students. Which means
that the computer is a *school* computer, and the Board is the school
board. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:53:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

In mail you write:

> One of my kids has MD, getting worse, and can no longer manage a mouse.
> The only trackball we have requires its own drivers, which we can't
> install because the Board (in its infinite wisdom) has decreed that no
> non-standard drivers can be installed.

Pity you aren't in the US. Here the ADA makes that *illegal* if it
interferes with a disabled person running the system.

> Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft mouse
> drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital Venturis FX
> running Windows NT.)  

Kraft *used* to sell a nice trackball that would run ok under MS or
Logitech drivers. It'd be *especially* good for handicapped kids
because there's a button that you push which is wired in parallel to
the left button and *latches* (making dragging much easier). There's
also a connection (looks like a modular phone jack) for hooking up a
*foot switch*. 

Alas, it isn't made anymore (and the damned *bearings* on mine gave out).

Check out the "Accessability options" in the OS. I know Win 98 has this
somewhere under "Control Panel". They should have some useful options
in there (including using arrow keys as a mouse).

> Actually, if anyone knows of a good source for computer accssories for
> disabled people, I'd appreciate knowing. I've got access to a small pot of
> money _not_ under Board control, specifically for the disabled kids, but I
> don't know enough about what's available for them.

There used to be a Forum on CIS for such things. And I expect that a
web search might turn up some stuff.

Microsoft is *not* (in my experience) terribly helpful. You might try
contacting Logitech. I know that they have a trackball that's supposed
to be pretty good, and that Logitech drivers are included in Win98 (and
I'd assume in NT). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:33:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

In mail you write:

> OK Count here are a few that I have just seen. IMO, IIRC, IMTU, and many
> many more.

IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO = In My Not So Humble Opion
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:44:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

In mail you write:

> To put some of this into perspective I have been doing a few claculations.
> These are based upon a number of sources, but primarily the 'Nuclear
> Weapons Frequently Asked Questions' by Carey Sublette available at
> (http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew) or as a 700k zip document.  I am not a
> physicist, (I am a philospher with an an interest in hard science who did a
> year of engineering many moons ago - so I probably have a lot of this ass
> about):
>
> In an atmostsphere about 35-45% of the energy of the explosion is produced
> as Thermal radiation, 60-50% as blast, and 5% as radiation.
>
> In space 95% and maybe more is expended as soft x rays, and the remainder
> are approximately 1% neutron radiation and 4% Gamma radiation.  This energy
> is released in about 100 nanoseconds. One kt  has an energy of 4.19x10^12
> joules or 10^12 calories.  The radiation decreases according to the inverse
> square law in space, and is not hindered there by atmoshere.
>
> Suppose a 1MT device explosed 5km from a spacecrft.  The area of a sphere
> at that distance is 4pi.r^2 which is 
> 3.14x10^8m^2  The energy expands in a sphere I think, and the energy of a
> 1Mt bomb is 1000x4.19x10^12 joules = 4.19x10^15 joules  The amount of
> energy per square meter is thus 4.19x10^15/3.14x10^8 = 1.33x10^7j/m^2.
> Only 5% is gamma rays or neutrons so this reduces the penetrating radiation
> to 6.67x10^5 j/m^2.  Now I have to pluck some figures from the air.
> Suppose a man is 1m^2  If he is considered in a vaccum he absorbs (suppose)
> all of that 6.67x10^5 j. Since one rad is .01J/Kg, and we take a typical
> man to weigh 75 Kg, he absorbs 889145.62 rads.

More to the point, he absorbs 8893 joules per kg. That's enough energy
to raise the temp of an equal amount of water quite a bit. But I don't
have the figures handy to let me calculate exactly how much. But I
suspect that "toast" may be a *literal* descriotion.

>  Now suppose our chap is in a vac suit with an AV of 1 (FF&S1)  He is safe
> from all that nasty soft x-ray stuff, but how well is he shielded from the
> serious penertrating radiation? 

Not really. If his suit *stops* the soft X-rays, that means that *all*
the energy of said soft X-rays will be deposited in it. Which means
he's a dead duck *long* before he gets a lethal dose of gamma/neutron. 

At least, that's what I assume having your suit vaporize explosively
would tend to do.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:03:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

In mail you write:

>> Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft
>> mouse drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital
>> Venturis FX running Windows NT.)

>         Doesn't MS make its own trackball?

Yeah. It's *tiny* thing, meant for to be clipped to the side of a
laptop. *Totally* unsuitable for the handicapped. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:00:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [T98#821] Metric

In mail you write:

> The length of a meter has actually been changed... scientists were unable
> to calculate the speed of light with more than 9 correct digits, so they
> re-defined the speed of light to *exactly* 299792458 meters per second,
> meaning that a meter is the distance light travels in 1/299792458 seconds.
> A second in turn is defined based on some oscillation nucleus...
>
> Just thought you'd want to know...
>
> Sometimes I wonder why they didn't redefine it as being 300000000
> meters, but that would have made all their precious research trying to
> determine the speed of light useless ;-)

No, it's because if they had, the meter would have had to be shortened
by 692 parts per million. Making a kilometer about 69 cm smaller. And
throwing off land surveys and the like all over the world.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:07:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

In mail you write:

> Also, like I said, I think that local systems WOULD use transponders, but
> for traffic control, not anti-theft. And since most ships IMTU never visit
> more than a handful of worlds (Ships have payments to keep up, and
> exploring is a risky, unprofitable business most of the time), the local
> alliances of private and government interests can agree on standards if
> necessary.

Well, in real life, transponders are *configurable*. The tower or Air
Traffic Control assigns you a transponder ID when you contact them upon
entering their control area. And certain IDs are set aside (777 is for
use by aircraft declaring an emergency). 

Most transponders merely "amplify" the radar return and add the
(settable) ID. I think that they may also send some info about what
kind of plane they are in, but I wouldn't swear to it. More advanced
transponders send altitude info (because it's much harder to determine
than range). And I think there are plans for ones that include even
more info.

Traveller equivalent:

Basic	Sends ??? digit ID. Last 4 digits are settable by user.
	Preceding digits identify ship "class" or tonnage (very
	roughly). 

Standard
	As Basic, but also returns r,phi & theta (r is distance from
	star, phi is angle from star-planet line, theta is angle from
	local "ecliptic")

Advanced
	As standard, but also includes ship's velocity vectors along
	co-ordinate axes (as determined by the Standard packet), and
	possibly ship performance related info.

The leading digits of the ID may be analogous to the "registration
numbers" on aircraft. I'd reserve 0000 on the settable digits for ships
that have just exited jump, so as to let everybody know they aren't
part of the local traffic pattern yet. Once you are assigned an ID by
STC (Space Traffic Control), you use it. And "FFFF" is reserved
reserved for declaring an emergency. 

BTW, when you file your flight plan for departure, you get assigned the
ID to set. And you'd use it until you jump, unless told to change it.

The ship's position info in the standard packet is to help traffic
control locate the ship and determine just *where* it is, as opposed to
merely knowing what *direction* it is in. 

The velocity vectors and performance data (max acell, available
G-hours, hull-type (non-aero, aero, streamlined)) help STC assign a
course and determine which ships are going to have to shift courses if
someone has to (if you have to get one of two ships to change courses,
you have the one with the most delta-V do it, unless it has to be done
*fast*, in which case you may go for the one with the higher accell).

The above is what transponders *need* to do. You can always add extra
stuff.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:40:06 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Jens wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Charles R Hensley wrote:
>
>> I think that 5. 5000
>>                  6. 50000
>>                  7. 500000
>>
>> just in case that they do have a decent strike during their carreer.
>
>:-)   Well, perhaps, but not *that* extreme...

how about 25000 and 250000.  there has to be some insentive to become a
belter
the lowest cash roll #6 is for Army at 20000 so the 25000 would be about
right.  And I like a very large $$ for the #7 roll

>
>> 7.High passage
>> should be
>> 7. Seeker   same rules as merchants recieving ships
>
>What is a 'Seeker' ?

It is a modified Scout/Courier from Sup. 7 Traders and Gunboats.
Normally 40+ years old when modified therefore has high wear values.

If you don't have Sup. 7. then the changes should be 4 sm. staterooms
instead of 4 lg staterooms, reduced fuel capacity (Jump 1,jump drive is
still J-2), the weapon is replaced with a mining laser (short range
laser), the air raft is replaced with a pressurized airraft.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:46:25 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TL 6-8 planetary defence (was rocketry 100)

At 21:46 18/09/98 +1000, you wrote:
>There have been some good ideas in this thread, eg. Leonard Erickson's
>H-bomb claymore.
>
>Questions :-
>1. Over tech levels 6 to 8, can we even see an incoming spacecraft if
>we're not looking at
>the exact patch of sky it jumps into (from a planetary surface, given
>that there's an every growing list of near-Earth objects, for example) ?
>
snip
According to TNE/BL there is no problem with detection at appropriately
close ranges. SR 30,000 km HRT is available etc.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 06:54:32 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

> I'm not commenting on *any* of this, because I still *might* offer
> this contract to the party and see how they handle it.  ;->

And he *knows* his players are listening ;>  I'll have to give 
some thought as to how Mira feels about the risks/benefits of 
low berths, though, just in case...

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 06:59:01 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

> "Fred, this is *not* going to work."
> "Relax Jonny...just wear Booger's helmet and jersey for a few days,
> and remember to scratch yourself a lot...hush, here comes the coach!!"

Arvitis. Arvitis is *big*.
 
> Now, just for fun, have the desperate medic on the pc's crew have another
> go at waking Booger up...and have her succeed, sort of. A very strong,
> very disoriented Booger wanders out of sick bay, maybe even manages
> to get as far as the sports arena in his spare jersey...so we can have
> two "Boogers" wandering about.     ;)

The desperate medic is a bit more skilled than that, but she is 
5' nothing. Hmmm. I wonder if its too late to arm sickbay with 
a tranq weapon... ;>

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:09:42 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Charles R Hensley wrote:

> how about 25000 and 250000.  there has to be some insentive to become a
> belter
> the lowest cash roll #6 is for Army at 20000 so the 25000 would be about
> right.  And I like a very large $$ for the #7 roll

I see the point. I have now changed it to  (6) 25000  (7) 50000

> It is a modified Scout/Courier from Sup. 7 Traders and Gunboats.
> Normally 40+ years old when modified therefore has high wear values.
> 
> If you don't have Sup. 7. then the changes should be 4 sm. staterooms
> instead of 4 lg staterooms, reduced fuel capacity (Jump 1,jump drive is
> still J-2), the weapon is replaced with a mining laser (short range
> laser), the air raft is replaced with a pressurized airraft.

OK... I will design myself a ship to fill this function. I have put an
entry saying "Miner's ship" as #7 in the benefits table. Make of it what
you will.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:02:10 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports) 

> > I'm not commenting on *any* of this, because I still *might* offer
> > this contract to the party and see how they handle it.  ;->
> 
> And he *knows* his players are listening ;>  I'll have to give 
> some thought as to how Mira feels about the risks/benefits of 
> low berths, though, just in case...

Thing is, you *can* transport somebody interstellarly by shooting them up with 
fast drug.  It slows down their metabolism 60 to 1 and knocks them out until 
you give them the antidote.  It's not a controlled substance, so getting it 
shouldn't be a problem...

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:15:48 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

We'll handle it the way _any_ civilized person handles rugby players: ropes,
nets, tranquilizer guns and lots, and Lots, and LOTS of beer!

Besides, I'd much rather have the rugby players than the soccer fans...

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> I'm not commenting on *any* of this, because I still *might* offer
> this contract to the party and see how they handle it.  ;->

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:34:55 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> We'll handle it the way _any_ civilized person handles rugby players: ropes,
> nets, tranquilizer guns and lots, and Lots, and LOTS of beer!
>
> Besides, I'd much rather have the rugby players than the soccer fans...

Ok, its time for a rugby career.  New skills to include:
scrumming, rucking, mauling, drinking, hidden punching, cauliflower ear,
drinking, singing, pouring beer on other people, pouring beer on self,
drinking, insulting referees, . . .

hmm, a lot of this sounds like what happens when I sit down to play traveller.

(I used to play with the rugby team over a couple of cases of beer before
we would hit the bars ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:22:14 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

>
> I will be very interested to see what people come up with. I'll be seeing what I
> can produce. To achieve the trip time, you need to aim for a final velocity of
> around 15-18km/s. Then when this has been done, we could try and figure out
> what would be so darn valuable that you could afford to pay your workforce to
> do nothing for 2 years :*>

I've been doing some research on Fusion reactions.  There is a clean and very
efficient model that uses 3He + 3He -> H2 + He.  It's greater than 70% efficient in
converting to electricity with no radioactive byproducts.  The only problem is the
rarity of 3He.  The Moon has a pretty good supply, but on Earth we get it mostly from
Fission byproducts.  Estimates put the energy value of a tonne of 3He at ~3 Billion
dollars.  Now if we assume that big ball of Hydrogen and Helium we call Jupiter is a
good source of 3He then shipping  20 tonnes back to Earth would be worth 60 Billion
Dollars. If we assume 10 dollars to the credit, the shipment is worth 6000 Mcr (twice
the budget for the ship) which is a pretty good return on your investment.

The only problem is why the ships themselves don't use 3He fusion reactors but rather
fission plants?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:36:00 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re : Re Rocketry 100

I should have stted somewhere that I envisage such defences to be used
against ships =< 5000 tons, and probably more commonly under 1000 tons.  If
the Voroshilef (BR/MT) rocks up it is better not to annoy it!

>Now, can we come up with the required accuracy from TL 6-8?
>
I have just finished designing a TL 6 solid fuel(!) rocket with a 5 tonne
payload and including mods for atmoshere and final gravity, has well over
escape velocity, (albeit with 5 stages).  I will post the design soon.
(assuming tungsten construction and structure of 15% of the total mass of
the vehicle. It has a passive sensor for final course corrections and a
minimal capacity to change its course.  Cost is about 10 MCr + sensor and
warhead(1Mcr/Mt) cost.)   It is about twice the mass of a Saturn V...  TL 7
and above are much easier (using data from the trav archive)
We can get there.

Can we get close enough?  If yes then, VERY roughly Against a target that
was NOT micro-evading I reckon that you would get close enough to kill it
easily; within about 1D10km, (on a success) If it is micro-evading, in TNE
it would be a difficult to formidable task to get within 1D10 times 100 km,
an outstanding success would get with 1D10km.  Asset would be RCV
operations or the appropriate ship,s weapons cascade.  I am still working
on the deatil.  The missile may explode well before it gets there!
(especially if it were LF, and a mishap while filling...and a small mistake
in the launch trajectory... etc.)  Perhaps using some of the MT rules from
hard times might be appropriate.  

Can we get a big enough payload?
From the nuclear weapons FAQ (cited in the preliminary post):

'Table 4.5.3-1. Yield-to-Weight Ratios of Current US Weapons
Weapon  YTW Ratio Yield(Kt)/Weight(kg) In Service Date
Mk-53      2.25        9000/4000         1962
W-88       1.5          475/330
W-80       1.31         170/130
B-83       1.10        1200/1090
W-87       1.0          300/300
W-78       0.96         335/350
W-76       0.61         100/165
The much earlier W-47 warhead seems to have achieved ratios of 2.2-2.7 
Kt/kg.'
No problem with a 9-10 MT yield for this payload. ( and it is only TL 6)


>At 5km, the flux is 6.67 X 10^5 J/m2, which corresponds to a temperature
>of about 1850 K, from the Stefan-Boltzmann law (generously assuming that
>the energy arrives over a second).
>Personnel are definitely toast.
>The EMP will damage sensors and electronics.
>Robert O'Connor

This constitutes only 5% of the total radiation of the bomb (see original
post).  If the remaider is absorbed as well then things will get hot a lot
further out. Note that the pulse is generated supposedly within 100 nano
seconds so this will make the effect worse.  
Two other considerations:
Use of neutron weapons with (perhaps) 5 times the the neutron yield of a
conventional bomb
Consider that neutrons apparently penetrate much further than Gamma rays.

One last thing: since lasers without gravitic focussing are MANY orders of
magnitude more expensive, and a C-paw (all you can get at TL 8) with SR1
(actually 2000km) and BL stats of 1-39, 2-19 etc. cost around 1600 MCr.  
Mind you the reliability of this PDM system will be low, and the contol and
launch facilities will also add to the cost. ( and you would have to dot
several bases around the world because of flight path and size and ...
As a side note I think that payloads of 50+ MT are achievable, but 3 5-10MT
weapons from the same missile will cover space more efficiently.

Colin
PS Thanks everyone for the input so far.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #832
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 20 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 833



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: T4 Miner career
Traveller Text Adventures - Available!
Re: Pronounciation (2 new Ship Design Systems)
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Pocket Empires
Re: The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: T4 Miner career
[Fwd: Undocumented Feature in FF&S Spreadsheet v. 3.2]
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Transponders [long]
Re: Pocket Empires

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:48:17 -0500
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Jens posted:
> 
> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Charles R Hensley wrote:
> 
> > I think that 5. 5000
> >                  6. 50000
> >                  7. 500000
> >
> > just in case that they do have a decent strike during their carreer.
> 
> :-)   Well, perhaps, but not *that* extreme...
> 
> > 7.High passage
> > should be
> > 7. Seeker   same rules as merchants recieving ships
> 
> What is a 'Seeker' ?

The CT boxed set "BeltStrike" (GDW's canon material for asteroid
mining and "Belter" character generation) shows the Mustering
tables for Belters as follows:

   Cash         Benefits
1   --          Low Passage
2   --          +1 Intelligence
3  1000         Weapon
4  10 000       High Passage
5  100 000      Travellers'
6  100 000      Seeker
7  100 000       --

Just thought I'd submit the above for comparison. The Cash
side reflects the "all or nothing" aspect of most Belters'
careers.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:24:55 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

Ian or Katts wrote:
> 
> I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
> of choice for belters.
> 
> I'm more inclined to think it would be a 20-30 dton launch, fitted out with
> closed life support that is taken to and from systems by Free Trader -
> otherwise you have all this cost and space taken up by jump drives you dont
> use much.
> 
Both of your points above make sense, _if_ the market for the ore is
in-system.  If, however, the best place for one to sell the fruits of
one's labor is in another system, then a jump-capable ship is needed. 
Independent asteroid miners are likely to be uncomfortable letting
somebody else handle the transport (and therefore the sale) of their
ore, so the small-craft-and-free-trader concept would work best for
corporate mining operations.

Besides, having a small craft ties a PC down to one system, unless
he/she/it either has friends with a starship that can move the craft, or
sells the thing and leaves.  Using a Seeker as a mining ship allows the
PC to travel.



> The other option is even simpler - just a quonet hut equivalent, sealed
> against vacuum as a base for propsecting work done on foot on some moonlet.
> 
> Ian Whitchurch

- -- 
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|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
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- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:16:14 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU> writes:
>how about 25000 and 250000.  there has to be some insentive to become a
>belter
>the lowest cash roll #6 is for Army at 20000 so the 25000 would be about
>right.  And I like a very large $$ for the #7 roll

What about linking the large strike to Prospecting skill? Making a roll of
7 equal to 50kCr x Prospecting will give good miners a decent strike.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:59:09 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Traveller Text Adventures - Available!

Well - it took longer than expected (the friend doing the conversions was
in a fairly serious car accident), but the following Apple text-adventures
from the mid-80's created for Traveller are now available in the following
files/formats:

.dsk images (emulator images):

sc.zip           StarCrystal, Episode I - Mertactor: The Volentine Gambit 
space1.zip    Space I 
space2.zip    Space II 
travutil.zip     Traveller Utilities (Trader, Beastiary, and WordGen)


.sdk images (original Apple format):

scsdk.zip     StarCrystal, Episode I - Mertactor: The Volentine Gambit
sp1sdk.zip   Space I
sp2sdk.zip   Space II
tusdk.zip     Traveller Utilities (Trader, Beastiary, and WordGen)


These zip files are available for download from the following sites:

Web:
www.primenet.com/~timmon/index.htm (both formats - also has DOS and Win95
emulators)

FTP:
ftp.primenet.com/users/t/timmon (both formats - also has DOS and Win95
emulators)
ftp.gmd.de/incoming/if-archive (both formats)
ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/incoming (.dsk format)
ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/2/apple2/upl98/Sep98 (.sdk format)

Note: During 'playtesting' I experenced some trouble with the Volentine
Gambit game - not sure if it is a faulty conversion or an emulator glitch -
I'm working to resolve it, and if there is anything to report I'll post an
update. For those who download and play the game in the original (.sdk)
format, I'd appreciate feedback as to how well it performs.

Final Note: Even if you have no interest in playing Traveller text
adventures (they *are* primitive when compared with the current state of
Interactive Fiction as reflected by the games in the IF-Archive at
ftp.gmd.de), I would still encourage you to download the games. Each zip
file contains text files of ALL the documentation that came with the
original software - in the case of "Volentine Gambit" this includes a 46
page LLB with some background information on District 268 and the planet
Mertactor in particular (set in the midst of the Fifth Frontier War).

Anyways - hope you all enjoy, and thanks once again to Marc for agreeing to
the release of this material as freeware.

L8r,
Paul Sanders 
timmon@primenet.com
Clans MacAlasdair, Comyn, and O'Delany

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:03:04 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Pronounciation (2 new Ship Design Systems)

At 09:12 PM 9/17/1998 -0400, Loren wrote:
>Rob Prior:
>>What measurement units are used in GURPS Traveller, SI or American?
>>
>>(This is a major question for me. If I have to convert everything to/from
>>the SI units we normally use to American units, the game may well be more
>>trouble than it's worth for me.)
>
>I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
>etc). Overseas translations use metric. 
> 
>LKW

Does anybody else besides me see the problems this is going to produce.  It
looks like GT is going to have two different ship design systems.  The ASDS
(American Ship Design System) based on Imperial units, and the ESDS
(European Ship Design System), only unlike all the previous designe systems
in T4 which were somewhat available to everyone, these will be only
available in their respective areas.  

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:00:01 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

At 11:10 AM 9/20/98 +0000, you wrote:

>Imagine your poor innocent Far Trader getting chartered by a bunch of rugby
>players on tour ... 

Or rabid soccer fans...

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net


http://www.sol-3.net - The Morrow Project PBEM site

http://www.sol-3.net/pj - PJ the Welsh Terrier's site

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:53:03 -0700
From: "Dean A.Cook" <wolv@powernet.net>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

Please what is PE. Thanks
- -----Original Message-----
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 11:00 PM
Subject: Pocket Empires


>I get the impression that nobody is playing PE. Is this the case?  If it is
>not let me know.  I am trying to put together a consolidated errata for
>that product.  I have some suggested fixes, and would like input from
>others.  Perhaps then it can be made available to those whpo are
>interested.  Any thoughts let me know.
>
> Colin
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:12:25 -0700
From: "Dean A.Cook" <wolv@powernet.net>
Subject: Re: The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles

Im sure that #8 was published as I have 1-6 and #9 but not 7 or 8. Sorry
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 1:00 PM
Subject: The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles


>
>Does anyone know if the book
>
>  The Adjutant Set Number Eight - Exotic Vehicles was published?
>
>Does anyone have a spare copy they may be willing to part with ?
>
>TIA
>
>
>
>Dom
>---
>
>mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:33:00 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

At 06:28 PM 9/19/98 -0500, Andy wrote:

I wrote:
>> Having said that, I'd love to have Andy put BL/BR stats into his
>> spreadsheets.  Those remain my second and thrid favorite space combat
>> games, righ behind Full Thrust.
>
>I'm working on it as we speak...about 1/2 done with BL.

Fantastic!  So I can wait to re-do all my current ships until that's out.

>Anything to make you happy Doug :)

A large pepperoni pizza and an apology from the US Army would be nice,
thank you...
- --

Douglas Berry
dberry@hooked.net
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry
"Come to Life, Iron Chef!"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:15:43 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Jens wrote:

>> how about 25000 and 250000.  there has to be some insentive to become
a
>> belter
>> the lowest cash roll #6 is for Army at 20000 so the 25000 would be
about
>> right.  And I like a very large $$ for the #7 roll
>
>I see the point. I have now changed it to  (6) 25000  (7) 50000
>

I guess those numbers are OK, (after paying off debts)

>> It is a modified Scout/Courier from Sup. 7 Traders and Gunboats.
>> Normally 40+ years old when modified therefore has high wear values.
>>
>> If you don't have Sup. 7. then the changes should be 4 sm. staterooms

>> instead of 4 lg staterooms, reduced fuel capacity (Jump 1,jump drive
is
>> still J-2), the weapon is replaced with a mining laser (short range
>> laser), the air raft is replaced with a pressurized airraft.
>
>OK... I will design myself a ship to fill this function. I have put an
>entry saying "Miner's ship" as #7 in the benefits table. Make of it
what
>you will.

I would add a note stating that the ship is most likely a modified ship
of between 20dT and 200dT.  Usually built from a scrapped hull to reduce
costs.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:45:29 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: [Fwd: Undocumented Feature in FF&S Spreadsheet v. 3.2]

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Passing along some correspondence I had with Andrew Akins about his FF&S
spreadsheet, version 3.2....

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:14:13 -0500
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
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You are correct...I have found and corrected it.

V3.3 will be out as soon as I finish the Brilliant Lances and Battle
Riders stuff


Black ICE wrote:
> 
> While converting a ship design from v. 31. of your Excel-lent
> spreadsheet, I wondered why my power requirements for inertial
> compensation jumped by over 10,000 MW.  I believe that I found the
> answer:
> 
> When you increased the mass of G-plates to 2 ton/m^3, you exacerbated a
> typo in another formula, the one for power requirements.  In both 3.1
> and 3.2 (I haven't checked earlier versions), the power requirements
> cell (cell N256 in 3.2) of the design worksheet has the formula:
> =L256*0.7
> 
> This multiplies the _mass_ of the G-plates to get power (which is why I
> had a hundred-fold increase in power requirements from 3.1 to 3.2).
> Table 214 calls for power required to equal _volume_ (cell K256 in 3.2)
> times 0.7, which gave me a much more reasonable figure.
> 
> --
> ------
> |    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
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- --------------016F69B1FDBCC4A03845A44D--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 16:38:24 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

On 09/19/98 at 11:03 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>In mail you write:

>>> Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft
>>> mouse drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital
>>> Venturis FX running Windows NT.)

>>         Doesn't MS make its own trackball?

>Yeah. It's *tiny* thing, meant for to be clipped to the side of a
>laptop. *Totally* unsuitable for the handicapped. 

That's true, but mightn't the drivers for it be usable for other more
appropriate trackballs?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 16:46:45 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

On 09/19/98 at 11:01 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>In mail you write:

>> What is this 'Board' of which you speak, and what business is it of theirs
>> what you have on your computer?

>I think Rob is a teacher, and the "kids" are his students. Which
>means that the computer is a *school* computer, and the Board is the
>school board. 

I rather suspect that an accommodation could be worked out for a
differently abled student.  I *know* it would be worked out in the
US, and Canada has the reputation for being more...um...advanced in
these areas than the US.  Surly, if Rob can find a good solution and
present it as assistance to the differently abled he would be able
to get the administration to go along.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:54:07 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 warlock@imagin.net wrote:

> The CT boxed set "BeltStrike" (GDW's canon material for asteroid
> mining and "Belter" character generation) shows the Mustering
> tables for Belters as follows:
> 
>    Cash         Benefits
> 1   --          Low Passage
> 2   --          +1 Intelligence
> 3  1000         Weapon
> 4  10 000       High Passage
> 5  100 000      Travellers'
> 6  100 000      Seeker
> 7  100 000       --
> 
> Just thought I'd submit the above for comparison. The Cash
> side reflects the "all or nothing" aspect of most Belters'
> careers.

When I created the Miner career, I assumed that the miner worked for a
corporation of some kind. Therefore, this all-or-nothing approach does not
apply. If you wanted to use the career for independent miners, you would
have to change the benefit tables to something similiar to the one from
BeltStrike.

I seem to have missed a lot of really good material by beginning to play
Traveller so late... When will the GDW CD-ROM be available?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
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+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 16:56:07 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

On 09/20/98 at 07:28 AM,  steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> said:

>> Once the intrepid crew of the 'Mae Lee' finally get their ship
>> working they'll desperately need to earn some cash and a guaranteed
>> charter is a good way to do it.  However, the only charter available
>> is a team of footballers on tour.

>American football?  Or Soccer?  

Or something else.  ;-> I had something more akin to rugby/aussie
rules in mind.

>Rugby players are more of a threat overall since they are as
>physically powerful and destructive as American footballers, but
>they don't need the extra-confidence and sense of security that
>pads and helmets give.

Steve, that's very unfair, and if you don't think so then you don't
really understand American/Canadian Football...or the mentality of
its players.  

Besides how do you think american children play football when they
aren't in some organized league?  I grew up playing tackle football
every afternoon during the fall in neighborhood pick up gammes.  We
always played "shirts vs skins", sans helmet, pads, cup, mouth guard
or shoes...just a pair of shorts and a tshirt (except in really cold
weather when we wore shoes and all wore shirts)...man a hard-soled
shoe to the head *really* does hurt!  ;-> I was too little and slow
to make my High School team, though I tried, and that was the first
time I ever got any equipment.  I remember Terry and I convinced a
big, dumb lineman to put his thigh pads on backwards (the points
were supposed to go on the *outside* of the leg not the inside where
they could be driven up into...ouch) the first day of practice.  The
coach made him drop his pants and change 'em on the field...after he
recovered from the first good hit...made Terry and me run extra
laps after practice, but it was worth it. ;->

However, you're right that ruggers have a justifiable reputation as
hard-hitting, hard-drinking, hard-playing wildmen, and that's what I
was going for.

>Need to break through a bulkhead?  Put your waterknife away.  Just
>say "Ruck over!"

Yeah, I hear ya!  Or, "The beersii's are behind that bulkhead."  ;->


Eris,

    ps.  Soccer fans sound good too. I'll have to think about it.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:03:02 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders [long]

>
>Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:07:08 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Transponders
>
>Well, in real life, transponders are *configurable*. The tower or Air
>Traffic Control assigns you a transponder ID when you contact them upon
>entering their control area. And certain IDs are set aside (777 is for
>use by aircraft declaring an emergency). 
>

Partially true.  There are up to four "modes" on a standard transponder (1,
2, 3/A, 4) plus Mode "C" (the altimeter readout), only two of which are
configurable (Mode 1 and Mode 3/A).  That is, configurable by the crew -
Mode 2 can be set by opening the box and fiddling with the insides; Mode 4
takes classified code gear to change. 

Mode 3/A codes are called "discrete" if they are assigned to your aircraft
specifically.  Standard "non-discrete" codes include:

"7700" - general Mayday, as Mr. Erikson mentioned (this can also be set
automatically by a large switch, without having to search through codes)
 
"7600" - voice communications failure

"7500" - hijacking (this is 'discreet', if 'non-discrete')

"1200" - aircraft following visual flight rules

Mode 1 functions like Mode 3/A, but there aren't as many codes and its use
is basically obsolete.

Mode 4 is the classified military IFF code, which changes at least every 24
hours.

Mode 2 is usually set to give the aircraft type - and it's possible this
*won't* be turned off by military aircraft in a combat situation, to cut
down on fratricide.

This, by the way, is part of what went wrong when the USS Vincennes shot
down a civilian airliner leaving Iran.  Even though the Airbus was on a
commercial flightplan in a published corridor, its (theoretically
non-configurable) Mode 2 squawk read "I am a Mig fighter", not "I am a
civilian airliner".

>Traveller equivalent:
>
>Basic	Sends ??? digit ID. Last 4 digits are settable by user.
>	Preceding digits identify ship "class" or tonnage (very
>	roughly). 
>

In a world of digital communications, I would imagine even more data might
be standard, hardwired as ROM:  name, registry number,
homeworld-of-registry, tonnage, two-letter type classification.  The idea
would be to include information that doesn't change frequently or without
Imperial permission.  You wouldn't include the Captain's name, current
weapons configuration, or last planetfall, for example.

>Standard
>	As Basic, but also returns r,phi & theta (r is distance from
>	star, phi is angle from star-planet line, theta is angle from
>	local "ecliptic")
>

This depends on some fairly sophisticated astronomical instrumentation -
you have to not only identify the main world, but also accurately predict
its orbital plane from what may be a very short sample.  I don't imagine
the average freighter paying for this - rather, she expects the port to
provide it to her (if the tech level permits).  Distance from the planet
(or STC), however, could be obtained from a standardized time-hack in the
query signal.

>Advanced
>	As standard, but also includes ship's velocity vectors along
>	co-ordinate axes (as determined by the Standard packet), and
>	possibly ship performance related info.
>

This might be easier to obtain from range-rate analysis of the query signal
than the astronomical data above.  STC should get some of this from
range-rate and doppler analysis of the response.

>The leading digits of the ID may be analogous to the "registration
>numbers" on aircraft. I'd reserve 0000 on the settable digits for ships
>that have just exited jump, so as to let everybody know they aren't
>part of the local traffic pattern yet. Once you are assigned an ID by
>STC (Space Traffic Control), you use it. And "FFFF" is reserved
>reserved for declaring an emergency.

Current transponders are 3-bit (octal - hence all the 7's); I can see going
to 4-bit (hexadecimal) in the not-to-distant future (65,536 vs. 4,096
separate codes), so I agree with this.  In addition, since "FFFF" is a
standard representation for "-1" in computer-ese, I hereby suggest "4-F" or
"squawking minus-one" as slang for declaring an emergency (or
characterizing a situation as out of control - equivalent to SNAFU or FUBAR).

>
>BTW, when you file your flight plan for departure, you get assigned the
>ID to set. And you'd use it until you jump, unless told to change it.
>
>The ship's position info in the standard packet is to help traffic
>control locate the ship and determine just *where* it is, as opposed to
>merely knowing what *direction* it is in. 
>

Distance (from time-lag) plus direction gives location.

>The velocity vectors and performance data (max acell, available
>G-hours, hull-type (non-aero, aero, streamlined)) help STC assign a
>course and determine which ships are going to have to shift courses if
>someone has to (if you have to get one of two ships to change courses,
>you have the one with the most delta-V do it, unless it has to be done
>*fast*, in which case you may go for the one with the higher accell).
>

Performance data is also the sort of information that typically gets filed
in a flight plan, because it depends on the ship's intentions and route fo
flight.

>The above is what transponders *need* to do. You can always add extra
>stuff.

Despite the quibbles above, I like it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:43:00 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Dean A.Cook wrote:

> Please what is PE. Thanks

Pocket Empires is a T4 supplement dealing with the affairs of small
empires on a grander scale (ie you can have your characters trying to
build up their own empire of a few worlds).

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #833
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 834



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Traveller Sports
Re: 2 new Ship Design Systems
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: Transponders
Re: 2 new Ship Design Systems
Re: Transponders
Metric and GT
re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: T4 Miner career
re: Athletes
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Quick Thoughts on Asteroid Mining
re: Traveller Sports
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Metric and GT
Re: T4 Miner career
Traveller Mags.
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Titan Games Preview for 9/20/98
Re: Titan Games Preview for 9/20/98
Re: Space Combat and Pizza (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828)
About low hydrosphere worlds..
Re: Metric and GT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:03:39 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

>I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
>of choice for belters.
>
I use the seeker to find the ore/set clam and the use launch(as you
discribed) by the mining company that the clam is sold to.(with a profit
share of course)

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:26:26 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Traveller Sports

As for myself, I've spent the last decade trying to get Synchronized Sleeping
made an Olympic event. The committee refuses to even consider it.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:35:45 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: 2 new Ship Design Systems

>>I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
>>etc). Overseas translations use metric. 
>> 
>>LKW

Better make that "International", not "Overseas". (Yup, Canada is a metric
country.)

Last time I went to the USA I drove there, crossing a river not a sea.
Mind you, according to Time magazine, most Americans think that their
largest trade partner is Japan, when it's actually Canada. So I could see
the goegraphically challenged getting confused there. Just remember, the
Japanese don't have to worry about polar bear poop on their front lawns :-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:57:32 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> writes:
> Surly, if Rob can find a good solution and
>present it as assistance to the differently abled he would be able
>to get the administration to go along.

"Surly" is a good way of putting it. We're talking the same folks who
can't afford new textbooks, yet remodel headquarters to give the director
a private washroom. The same folks who buy and pay yearly licensing for
software they then refuse to install for a year, then call us "negative"
when we point out that trying to teach programming without a compiler is
not in the best interests of the students. The folks who hired a computer
consultant to fix problems, paying them an hourly rate, even when the
problems the consultant was fixing were ones the consultant caused in
their last visit. The folks who...

The word that best describes the situation is, quite frankly, a
clusterfuck. 

<RANT>
The government has changes all the rules, changed the curriculum (without
providing new materials/training), the bureaucrats are fighting to either
keep their jobs or get promoted, and the kids and teachers are caught in
the middle.  The government has spent $1.65 million in ads in the last two
weeks alone claiming they are doing great things for education - more
money than they've spent on informing teachers about the new curriculum
they're written (which wasn't even run through a spell-check program!).
For a party that spouts a lot about accountability, responsibility, and
less government, they've done a great job in gathering everything into the
control of the provincial ministries, where a nameless bureaucrat gets to
make decisions that affect millions without any chance of public input. 

Quite frankly, I think this is a deliberate assault on public education,
with the aim of making private schools an attractive alternative. (Right
now the public system has an equivalent-better record of student
achievement after leaving school, in spite of not being able to reject
troublemakers.) It's coupled with an assault on unions and local
governments, leaving effective power in the hands of unelected party
strategists working hand-in-glove with Bay Street.
</RANT>

Hell, if centralization worked then we'd all be soviet citizens by now.



Rob (heading into a 60-hour week, following a 70-hour week, just after
being called "lazy" on TV because he won't coach sports as well)



PS. On the bright side, you folks have come up with at least five
different solutions for me to try next week.  One way or another, we'll
get my kids online. Thank you one and all.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:52:43 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

>From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
>Subject: Re: Transponders
...
>IIRC, the El Al security personnel on board carry .22 Berettas, and are
...
>Does the Imperium have a similar counterpart to the Sky Marshals or other
>airline security force?  It would make sense, IMO, to have such a service
>if only due to the sheer numbers of sophonts travelling the spaceways. 

  It's simpler to fill gunnery slots with ex-Navy men and open up the
standard Travelleresque ships' locker...

  In all seriousness, any shipping line with a responsible administration 
is going to see a lot of benefits to hiring one or two term ex-gunnery
staff, especially from the IN or sub-sector fleets. They're already cleared
security-wise, and they not only have good gunnery skills (w/o the line
having to pay for SOTA training) but a strong basis in shipboard life,
on-board security drills, and discipline.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:53:52 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: 2 new Ship Design Systems

At 07:35 PM 9/20/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>>>I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
>>>etc). Overseas translations use metric. 
>>> 
>>>LKW
>
>Better make that "International", not "Overseas". (Yup, Canada is a metric
>country.)
>
>Last time I went to the USA I drove there, crossing a river not a sea.
>Mind you, according to Time magazine, most Americans think that their
>largest trade partner is Japan, when it's actually Canada. So I could see
>the goegraphically challenged getting confused there. Just remember, the
>Japanese don't have to worry about polar bear poop on their front lawns :-)
>
>
Yes, but the 20,000 Cr question is, "Which version of Gurps does Canada
get, the one with the Imperial units, or Metric?"

I hope that you get the version with Metric units, because it would be
cheaper than getting it from overseas.  But, Canada is in North America,
hence the "American" tag to the edition of GURPS.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:06:40 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Transponders
>
>I had the impression that since the 3I appeared decentralized, the

  Direct control is decentralized in the 3I, but the Navy is still the
same institution throughout and established at a moderately absurd
capability. That is, its local presence can be very heavy even if the
control (but not infrastructure base) is local.

>corporations and shipowners were responsible for their own security, hence the
>security school special duty assignment in the Merchant Prince Chargen tables.

  The "security school" handles ships' _internal_ security - the list
of skills taught indicates this.

>If private security can run around as semi military organizations, then I
>asume that Imperial (or individual world govs for that matter) government
>security must be awsome (especially since every PC runs around in scouts and
>'merchies with weapon turrets); not to mention the Navy, and Army being
>available to back up security....

  How many trawlers with deck guns would it take to threaten a modern
missile patrol boat? OC, given the 3I's demonstrated naval budget (even
the lower versions) then the IN simply need not take any internal force
seriously wrt fleet actions.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:00:28 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Metric and GT

Jimmy Simpson said:
> Does anybody else besides me see the problems this is going to produce.

No, not really. GURPS players are free to use metric if they want to. Many do.
The system for designing ships in the GURPS Traveller rules is a quick and
dirty modular one based on GURPS Vehicles. GURPS Vehicles (like all the rest
of the GURPS rules) uses Imperial. People have managed to cope with it so far.
Is there a problem that I'm not seeing here (and that seems to have escaped
the notice of every Traveller player who runs a campaign using GURPS rules)?

When I said overseas translations use metric, I did not mean to imply that we
have GT translations lined up. We do not as of now have any proposal for a GT
translation. 

I think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of commonly
available conversion applications. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:11:46 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
of choice for belters.

I'm more inclined to think it would be a 20-30 dton launch, fitted out with
closed life support that is taken to and from systems by Free Trader -
otherwise you have all this cost and space taken up by jump drives you dont
use much.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ships of that type are used as well for belt mining. In Supplement 4, 
_Citizens of the Imperium_, a Belter character has twice as many
chances to get Ship's Boat skill as he has to get Pilot skill. Then
there's the purpose-built Vargr Seeker from Alien Module 3 _Vargr_,
a 200-tn unstreamlined ship with a 30tn ship's boat.

You find modified type-S Scouts playing the Seeker role for the same
reason you see fleets of 1970's Volkswagon Bugs playing taxicab
in Mexico City. Lots of 'em were built, lots of 'em are still around.

Modified type-S Seekers are rebuilds from used scout ships the IISS
has paid off. They are cheaper than new ships, and a lot less reliable.
_Citizens of the Imperium_ quotes the value of a mod-S Seeker at
about 20MCr, about the cost (new) of a Classic Traveller 40tn Pinnace.

No, I have no idea how Vargr afford a custom-built asteroid prospecting
vessel. Just another example of the engimas of alien cultures, I suppose.
<G>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:22:47 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Rob Prior wrote:

>Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU> writes:
>>how about 25000 and 250000.  there has to be some insentive to become
a
>>belter
>>the lowest cash roll #6 is for Army at 20000 so the 25000 would be
about
>>right.  And I like a very large $$ for the #7 roll
>
>What about linking the large strike to Prospecting skill? Making a roll
of
>7 equal to 50kCr x Prospecting will give good miners a decent strike.

I like this better

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:21:28 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Athletes

Suz Dollar wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Now, just for fun, have the desperate medic on the pc's crew have another
> go at waking Booger up...and have her succeed, sort of. A very strong,
> very disoriented Booger wanders out of sick bay, maybe even manages
> to get as far as the sports arena in his spare jersey...so we can have
> two "Boogers" wandering about.     ;)

The desperate medic is a bit more skilled than that, but she is 
5' nothing. Hmmm. I wonder if its too late to arm sickbay with 
a tranq weapon... ;>

Suz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If the evil GM wants to get all this to happen at the sports arena, have
the best medical facility in the system be there. I've read of jump-mobile
Grav-Ball arenas - perhaps one is owned by the opposing team, and
the game is happening on board? The medic smuggles Booger's low
berth into the opposing team's sick bay to wake him up while another
PC tries to play Booger for just a little while until the famous sports
star gets properly revived.

Celebrities...it's a good thing most of them have money, otherwise
the rest of us might not keep putting up with them... <G>


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:27:52 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> As for myself, I've spent the last decade trying to get Synchronized Sleeping
> made an Olympic event. The committee refuses to even consider it.
> 
> Loren Wiseman

The problem with Synchronized Sleeping as an event is not with the
judging, it's with the coaching.  Just how do you get several sleepers
to roll over in sequence?  Heck, how do you get a group of people to
fall asleep in synch, without using "performance enhancing" drugs, such
as Seconal?  (Low berths don't count; Low Berth Synchronized Sleeping is
no more worthy of the Olympics than Stock Car Racing is.  In both cases,
it's the technology that's the key, not the individual's athletic
prowess.)

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:30:22 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Re: Quick Thoughts on Asteroid Mining

Black Ice wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Both of your points above make sense, _if_ the market for the ore is
in-system.  If, however, the best place for one to sell the fruits of
one's labor is in another system, then a jump-capable ship is needed. 
Independent asteroid miners are likely to be uncomfortable letting
somebody else handle the transport (and therefore the sale) of their
ore, so the small-craft-and-free-trader concept would work best for
corporate mining operations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The above especially makes sense if the amount of ore isn't a big deal.
If the Belter is a prospector, he doesn't want to transport enough ore
to sell to a smelter - he wants to sell the ore samples, and the location of
the strike, to a mining company. He may not want anyone else even
knowing what _system_ he was in, much less have to buy jump
transport from someone else.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:11:17 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Traveller Sports

Black Ice wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(Low berths don't count; Low Berth Synchronized Sleeping is
no more worthy of the Olympics than Stock Car Racing is.  In both cases,
it's the technology that's the key, not the individual's athletic
prowess.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Except that, in the case of Stock Car Racing, the technology is
relatively equivalent for all participants. The technical skill of the team,
the course-specific preparation of the driver, and the skill and endurance
of the driver (not just the endurance of his bladder) are all key.

Yes, they're just driving in a circle. In a bumper-to-bumper traffic jam
at over 100 miles per hour. With occaisional car-shredding accidents
right in front of them, just to keep things interesting...heck, I only watch
the car-shredding stuff...<g>

(I demo'ed a NASCAR racing game on some PC's at a computer store
I worked in a few years ago. I always drove the courses the wrong
way, so I could go through the pack in the opposite direction at max
speed. They move aside a bit, I fishtail the car at the right moment,
the chain reaction steel confetti was inspiring. Made me glad the
programmers included instant replay with choice of camera angles...)

It's a sport, just like yacht racing. It's not a sport that highlights
physical prowness like most Olympic sports do, and is far too
noisy and environmentally incorrect for consideration as an Olympic
sport.

I'm looking forward to adding orbital skydiving to MTU's sports list.
Drop out of a ship in a standard Vac suit with a reentry kit (spray
ablative heat shield and such), try to be the first one down closest to
the target. Just to have some sports figures that Imperial Drop
Marines think are crazy... <g>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:22:19 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

At 11:44 pm 9/19/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>> Suppose a 1MT device explosed 5km from a spacecrft.  The area of a
sphere
>> at that distance is 4pi.r^2 which is 
>> 3.14x10^8m^2  The energy expands in a sphere I think, and the
energy of a
>> 1Mt bomb is 1000x4.19x10^12 joules = 4.19x10^15 joules  The amount
of
>> energy per square meter is thus 4.19x10^15/3.14x10^8 =
1.33x10^7j/m^2.
>> Only 5% is gamma rays or neutrons so this reduces the penetrating
radiation
>> to 6.67x10^5 j/m^2.  Now I have to pluck some figures from the
air.
>> Suppose a man is 1m^2  If he is considered in a vaccum he absorbs
(suppose)
>> all of that 6.67x10^5 j. Since one rad is .01J/Kg, and we take a
typical
>> man to weigh 75 Kg, he absorbs 889145.62 rads.
>
>More to the point, he absorbs 8893 joules per kg. That's enough
energy

	1 calorie, IIRC, will raise 1 gram of liquid water 1 Kelvin.
Unfortunately, most of my reference materials are at work, my 1936
rubber bible doesn't have a conversion from joules to calories, and
I'm to lazy to work it out ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:03:04 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

From:           	GDWGAMES@aol.com
Date sent:      	Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:00:28 EDT

>Jimmy Simpson said:
>> Does anybody else besides me see the problems this is going to produce.

>No, not really. GURPS players are free to use metric if they want to. Many do.
>The system for designing ships in the GURPS Traveller rules is a quick and
>dirty modular one based on GURPS Vehicles. GURPS Vehicles (like all the rest
>of the GURPS rules) uses Imperial. People have managed to cope with it so far.
>Is there a problem that I'm not seeing here (and that seems to have escaped
>the notice of every Traveller player who runs a campaign using GURPS rules)?

The "problem" for me is two fold:

Firstly: its an extra step of work I'd much rather not have to do. Like you say its 
not difficult too simply convert the figures, but it's really annoying to have to do 
so. It will have the effect of making material produced for G:T "uncompatible" 
with other versions.

Secondly: it just doesn't "fit" with the background. Somehow the idea of rating 
the Imperium's latest dreadnought according to it's length in yards feet and 
inches and seeing its weight in tons and pounds just doesn't work for me.

> think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of commonly
>available conversion applications. 

Yes it's relatively easy to work around, but (juding from the opinions expressed 
here) it is a major factor in a lot of established players minds.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:15:40 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm wrote:
> 
> I have created a Miner career for my T4 campaign. Take a look at my
> homepage, Traveller section.
>
Maybe I am reading it wrong but under the term roll's section it seems
to state that there is no roll for commission, although there is for
promotion, yet there is a commissioned rank O1 under table of ranks.
Does Rank o1 follow E1 if a successful promotion roll is made?

Jim C

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:45:05 -0500
From: Kevin Roberts <kr23st00@apex.net>
Subject: Traveller Mags.

I am new to traveller.  I know that there are magazines out there
dealing

with just traveller.

Example "The Journal of the Travellers' aid Society" and "Traveller
Chronicles"

I would like to know is are both dealing with "Traveller" by Marc Miller
or what?

Secondly is there any maps of our galaxy for Traveller? If so where on
the net?

Third is there any conversions or material for Traveller from Babylon 5,
the series

"Stargate SG1" or the movie "StarGate"?

Thanks

End of line......

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:27:28 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Jim Cooper wrote:

> Maybe I am reading it wrong but under the term roll's section it seems
> to state that there is no roll for commission, although there is for
> promotion, yet there is a commissioned rank O1 under table of ranks.
> Does Rank o1 follow E1 if a successful promotion roll is made?

I mistyped. There is supposed to be a commission, but no promotion.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:35:10 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

> As for myself, I've spent the last decade trying to get Synchronized
Sleeping
> made an Olympic event. The committee refuses to even consider it.

Well, for myself, I have been trying to get the Olympic Committee to make
playing Traveller an Olympic Evenr...

> Loren Wiseman

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:24:35 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Titan Games Preview for 9/20/98

>Game Designer's Workshop:
>    (Traveller)
>        Book 5 - High Guard (308) [$13.5, NM]
>        Suppl. 4 - Citizens of the Imperium (310) [$8.5, VF]
>        Suppl. 6 - 76 Patrons (315) [$8.5, VF]
>        Suppl. 9 - Fighting Ships (324) [$13, F]
>        Adv. 6 - Expedition to Zhodane (325) [$14.5, VF]
>        Adv. 7 - Broadsword (326) [$18, NM]

  Neat stuff!

>TSR:
>        White Boxed Set (non-collector's edition) (2002B) [$180, Box
F-Contents NM]
                                                             ^^^
                                                            ^^^^^
  And no more whining about how expensive old Classic Traveller stuff is...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:38:57 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Titan Games Preview for 9/20/98

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
> >Game Designer's Workshop:
> >    (Traveller)
> >        Book 5 - High Guard (308) [$13.5, NM]
> >        Suppl. 4 - Citizens of the Imperium (310) [$8.5, VF]
> >        Suppl. 6 - 76 Patrons (315) [$8.5, VF]
> >        Suppl. 9 - Fighting Ships (324) [$13, F]
> >        Adv. 6 - Expedition to Zhodane (325) [$14.5, VF]
> >        Adv. 7 - Broadsword (326) [$18, NM]
> 
>   Neat stuff!
> 
> >TSR:
> >        White Boxed Set (non-collector's edition) (2002B) [$180, Box
> F-Contents NM]
>                                                              ^^^
>                                                             ^^^^^
>   And no more whining about how expensive old Classic Traveller stuff is...
Yeh, I have all those listed above. As to the last statement, I say why
not complain, it beats being nice all the time and boy can you make some
people mad. No I don't mean that.

On a side note, I have had some verbage with James Lindsay and I just
received some data on the Old Vanguard Reaches and Beyond Sectors ala JR
Keith era. Sure helps to fill in the data shortage and amazing enough,
what I dreamed up seems to fit very well and with only very minor shifts
of territory. I think it's going to work out very nicely.

Kerry (my daughter) is now over on the continent and will be back in
England in a couple of weeks. I've had e-mail from Dom, and Andy Lilly
of the UK and have passed on Kerry's e-mail address and their addresses
and contact numbers. Hope this works out OK. Andy Lilly wanted to know
if Kerry was going to bring back a bunch of things for a bunch of us to
which I said I didn't think so. I don't think Kerry has or will have any
room left to carry a bunch of stuff back. If she gets me the 101 series
of books that will be great and I can feed tid-bits to you guys as you
need them. This is all a number of months or a couple of years away
though so don't get too excited. B^)

Talk to you soon. I was over last Saturday for a regatta, and will be
over a couple of times this week, but mostly too busy to be able to
visit.

Jim C.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:21:44 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Space Combat and Pizza (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828)

dberry@hooked.net wrote

> At 06:28 PM 9/19/98 -0500, Andy wrote:

> >Anything to make you happy Doug :)
> 
> A large pepperoni pizza and an apology from the US Army would be nice,
> thank you...

I wouldn't hold my breath on the apology from the Army bit....

As long as Andy is taking pizza requests I'd like a large vegetarian
pizza w/ extra mushrooms, please.

How about a ship conversion system.  This system would take a MT or TNE
(FFS 1) ship & convert it, as closely as possible to an FFS2 ship.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 08:41:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: About low hydrosphere worlds..

    Been watching this Earth Story miniseries on TLC and a thought crossed my
mind that I thought I'd toss out to the list.  If you have active plate
tectonics on a world, what happens when you have a low percentage of
hydrosphere to create sea floor spreading?  As far as I can tell you NEED a
large percentage of the surface to be covered with water to provide the thinner
crust to drive the tectonic process to create new crust.

    On really low hydrosphere worlds you could well have portions of the
process going on above water.  What kind of effects would that have on the
planet?

    More to the point, what happens to a world when cut down the temperature
regulator that the oceans represent?

    Well Earth Science Types?  Am I off base or is this single variation go to
create lots of interesting problems?

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:17:07 +0200
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> When I said overseas translations use metric, I did not mean to imply that we
> have GT translations lined up. We do not as of now have any proposal for a GT
> translation.
>
> I think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of commonly
> available conversion applications.

I quite agree. Coming from England I grew up with having to flit between both
systems so have gotten used to lbs and kg. Pounds, shillings and pence were just
before my time and seem far too weird though :-)

Paul

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #834
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 835



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Canadian GURPS (was: 2 new Ship Design Systems)
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Metric and GT
Sale of Stutterwarp
Re: Canadian GURPS (was: 2 new Ship Design Systems)
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts
re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
re:  Battle Dress helmets
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
re: TNE Questions
Re: Metric and GT
metric in G:T
Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..
Hypercard on PC?
Re:Virus LIVES
Re: SSDS questions
RE: Burning Questions
Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:15:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

In mail you write:

>     Been watching this Earth Story miniseries on TLC and a thought crossed my
> mind that I thought I'd toss out to the list.  If you have active plate
> tectonics on a world, what happens when you have a low percentage of
> hydrosphere to create sea floor spreading?  As far as I can tell you NEED a
> large percentage of the surface to be covered with water to provide the 
> thinner crust to drive the tectonic process to create new crust.

More to the point, you may not *have* a crust that thin without the
sort of "large, late impact" that gave Earth the Moon. In case you
weren't aware, the Moon is a a bunch of crustal material from Earth
that got knocked off when something rather large sideswiped early
during the late stages of planetary formation. 

The pieces settled into an orbit and mostly conglomerated into one
body. 

>     On really low hydrosphere worlds you could well have portions of the
> process going on above water.  What kind of effects would that have on the
> planet?

Actually, you are likely *not* to have the process occur at all. The
water seeping into crustal faults, especially in subduction zones, both
acts as a lubricant, and enables the rocks to melt at lower
temperatures. 

>     More to the point, what happens to a world when cut down the temperature
> regulator that the oceans represent?

Your weather *can* get more extreme. Then again, you may not have as
much weather, simply because evaporating and condensing water drives so
much of our weather patterns.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> More to the point, he absorbs 8893 joules per kg. That's enough energy
> to raise the temp of an equal amount of water quite a bit. But I don't
> have the figures handy to let me calculate exactly how much. But I
> suspect that "toast" may be a *literal* descriotion.
1 kilogram-degree for water is 4184 joules, so it will raise his body
temperature by 2.1 degrees, which wouldn't be lethal or even incapacitating if
done over a moderate period of time, but would be likely to put him in shock if
done quickly.  It also won't be particularly evenly distributed, it will
actually raise the temperature of the part facing the blast by quite a bit more
than that, and might not significantly increase his core body temperature
significantly; as such, the subject might not even go into shock.  This figure
is also high, a man doesn't have a cross-section of a square meter.
> 
> Not really. If his suit *stops* the soft X-rays, that means that *all*
> the energy of said soft X-rays will be deposited in it. Which means
> he's a dead duck *long* before he gets a lethal dose of gamma/neutron. 
> 
> At least, that's what I assume having your suit vaporize explosively
> would tend to do.

A suit sufficient to stop the soft X-rays will probably weigh 10+ kilograms,
and have a specific heat of around .2 cal/degree, which means that it will heat
up by about 80C.  Sudden thermal expansion is reasonably likely to breach the
seals on that suit, but it won't vaporize, you'd probably need 20-50 times as
much energy to vaporize the suit.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:52:11 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

> > >Normally, this is true. IIRC, a unit engaged in hand-to-hand combat
> > >may not interrupt. So Betty can't interrupt anybody.
>
> Not as far as I know.  What is your source for this?
>

With apologies, I couldn't tell you. All my MT manuals are in Word format, and I
incorporated the errata into them so long ago I can't tell you where I got each
rule change from. I _thought_ that this particular rule came from the errata,
but I'm not sure.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:03:10 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Is it worth purchasing? What does it contain?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:45:54 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Canadian GURPS (was: 2 new Ship Design Systems)

Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net> writes:
>Yes, but the 20,000 Cr question is, "Which version of Gurps does Canada
>get, the one with the Imperial units, or Metric?"
>
>I hope that you get the version with Metric units, because it would be
>cheaper than getting it from overseas.  But, Canada is in North America,
>hence the "American" tag to the edition of GURPS.

The American edition. Not so bad for a fantasy game, when archaic units
actually _add_ to the atmosphere, but...

Loren, How about making the International edition available up here in the
Great White, eh?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:45:12 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Joe Pettit wrote:

> I've been doing some research on Fusion reactions.  There is a clean and very
> efficient model that uses 3He + 3He -> H2 + He.  It's greater than 70% efficient in
> converting to electricity with no radioactive byproducts.  The only problem is the
> rarity of 3He.

What does the fusion reaction in particular have have to do with
conversion to electricity? That is, IIRC, a separate part of the
reactor. All of the designs so far use neutron absorbing materials to
generate heat, whihc is then used to generate electricity.

Do you have some references to this reaction? 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:54:54 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Loren Wiseman writes:
>> Does anybody else besides me see the problems this is going to produce.
>
>No, not really. GURPS players are free to use metric if they want to.
>Many do.
>The system for designing ships in the GURPS Traveller rules is a quick and
>dirty modular one based on GURPS Vehicles. GURPS Vehicles (like all the
>rest
>of the GURPS rules) uses Imperial. People have managed to cope with it so
>far.

I suspect GURPS Vehicles uses American, not Imperial, but I'll concede
that maybe the units are not the ones where there is a significant
difference.
>
>Is there a problem that I'm not seeing here (and that seems to have
>escaped
>the notice of every Traveller player who runs a campaign using GURPS
>rules)?

Well, first off most Traveller players are probably American, so for them
metric will be the unusual option. (And last time I was in Britain it had
converted less thoroughly than Canada had.) 
>
>When I said overseas translations use metric, I did not mean to imply
>that we
>have GT translations lined up. We do not as of now have any proposal for
>a GT
>translation. 
>
>I think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of
>commonly
>available conversion applications. 

I don't want to have to convert a number every time I play, or go throught
the book pencilling in changes. 

I think part of the problem is that, having got used to metric, having
developed cubic metres of background material in metric, and having 20+
years of metric Traveller experience, I don't want to change. 


Mind you, I _have_ figured out _why_ this is happening. Remember the
Office of Calendar Compliance? 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:07:53 -0600
From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Sale of Stutterwarp

I personally like the Stutterwarp concept better than the Jump Drive concept, but based on the rules set down, you are going to have some limitations on Stutterwarp in a standard Traveller universe that may make it not especially useful in general.  The main limitation is the distance you are limited to before you are required to discharge in a large gravity well.  The conversion factors make it about two parsecs, or about the same as Jump 2.  I haven't done a conversion on the speed of travel, so I don't know at this moment whether a Jump Drive ship or a Stutterwarp ship would go those 2 parsecs faster (however, my fuzzy perception is that the Stutterwarp ship would be faster going 2 parsecs).
- - Joseph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:15:22 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Canadian GURPS (was: 2 new Ship Design Systems)

> The American edition. Not so bad for a fantasy game, when archaic units
> actually _add_ to the atmosphere, but...
> 
> Loren, How about making the International edition available up here in the
> Great White, eh?

Alas, Loren has already posted that there are no plans at 
this time for any translations of Gurps Traveller, so there 
is no version with metric.

Loren, correct me if I misread...

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:17:39 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Joe Pettit wrote:
> 
>>I've been doing some research on Fusion reactions.  There is a clean and very
>>efficient model that uses 3He + 3He -> H2 + He.  It's greater than 70% >>efficient in converting to electricity with no radioactive byproducts.  The >>only problem is the rarity of 3He.
 
> What does the fusion reaction in particular have have to do with
> conversion to electricity? That is, IIRC, a separate part of the
> reactor. All of the designs so far use neutron absorbing materials to
> generate heat, whihc is then used to generate electricity.

If the byproducts are charged particles then you could use magnetic
field techniques to directly draw off electricity. Being non-radioactive
charged particles would really help.

As long as you are limited to neutronic heating you're going to get much
lower efficencies.  The fusion pile is just the firebox on a
steam-electric generator. 

If I'm not mistaken, there is a idea associated with a Dr. Post that
directly draws off electricity from some standard fusion reaction , that
has something to do with magnetic fields or potential changes or
something.  I'm not where I can check my notes right now, so I can't
tell you more, but it sounds good anyway. ;->
 
> Do you have some references to this reaction?

Yes, references would be nice.

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Rob Prior writes:
> I think part of the problem is that, having got used to metric, having
> developed cubic metres of background material in metric, and having 20+
> years of metric Traveller experience, I don't want to change. 

Of course, perhaps GT is not metric because it's trying to be classic, and
_truly_ classic traveller uses american units (and maps vehicles in 5' squares
- -- 500 cf is a traveller ton).  This also accounts for world size codes being
in thousands of miles....

;)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 06:55:46 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

At 04:03 PM 9/21/98 +1200, you wrote:
>Secondly: it just doesn't "fit" with the background. Somehow the idea of
rating 
>the Imperium's latest dreadnought according to it's length in yards feet and 
>inches and seeing its weight in tons and pounds just doesn't work for me.

Heh - imagine that - an American game featuring American units of
measurement. Is it just me, or might not most Americans find that that
feature just *does* work for them.... If I were playing a game that
originated and continued to be produced in a country that used metric as
its standard of measurement, then I'd be willing to accept the fact that I,
as an American, would need to make some conversions from metric, and the
reverse is also true.

Paul 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:05:28 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

>
>Thing is, you *can* transport somebody interstellarly by shooting them 
up with 
>fast drug.  It slows down their metabolism 60 to 1 and knocks them out 
until 
>you give them the antidote.  It's not a controlled substance, so 
getting it 
>shouldn't be a problem...
>
>Keven

But it *IS* a controlled substance for football players in the 3I and 
would mean that "Booger" would be disqualified for at least 6 months....

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:28:58 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller hand-to-hand combat & Interrupts

Erwin Fritz Wrote;
>Also, an interrupt doesn't prevent the interrupted party from completing its
>move. After the interrupt is over, the interrupted side finishes its turn. The
>MT rules don't say this; it's in one of the errata. So, if I'm
>interrupting you,
>I have to successfully interrupt you, and whatever I'm doing has to be
>successful, or you'll still get to finish.

That's interesting, Page 68 of the MT Players Manual states;
"If this task is successful, it becomes the interrupting unit's turn.  The
interrupted unit's turn is considered spent for the combat round.  A failed
interrupt roll doesn't count as a spent turn.  Ignore mishaps."

So not only does an interrupt spoil someone's action if successful, if it
fails the person who tried to interrupt can still take some action (and
apparently a completely different action from the attempted interrupting
action).

I searched the MT errata I have dated October 1988 which, aside from
lifting the restriction on interrupting allies and a note about animals,
does not change this rule at all.  Do you have errata later or more
complete than I?  I'd love to get my hands on it.

If this rule is contradicted, it takes away the power interrupts have to
spoil tasks which I object to.  Even if there is no errata, I will probably
play it the way Erwin describes.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:49:33 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

>At 07:44 PM 9/12/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.
>>Dom
>>PS Yes, we did change a few names in 101 Religions...!
>
>You changed some names?
>
>I expected a little editing, but I never expected the Azhanti Inquisition...

No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition!

Our main weapon is Editing and ruthless deadlines.....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:46:10 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:  Battle Dress helmets

 "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk> wrote:

<<That's funny, I've always thought the 'old' Imperial Battle Dress/Combat
Armor helmets with the little slit for vision made a lot of sense. Think
about it for a while: A TL 15 combat helmet is filled with electronics,
including a very sofisticated heads-up display. IMTU Battle Dress helmets
have 360 degree vision, with the area outside the normal field of vision
compacted into narrow bands at the end of the wearers field of vision.
Thus, the wearer will be able to spot movement behind him/her. The heads-up
display also work with light intensifiers and infrared and what-have-you.>>

That's how I picture them - sort of a cross between the suits in Starship
Troopers (the book) and CJ Cherryh's 'Rimrunners'. The compressed 360 was
also in a 2300 supplement IIRC (Aurore SB?).

IMTU Vacc Suit can only ever stand as Battle Dress 0 (or 1 if all the
amlification and targeting is switched off). But battledress can stand as
Vacc Suit-1.

Dom (catching up)




>If we accept the postulate that transparent materials are weaker than
>opaque materials (they generally are IMTU), then it makes sense only to
>have a little slit in the helmet for backup purposes (when all the fancy
>sensors fail), as this would give increased protection to the face.
>
>Just a thought...
>
>
>Mark Seemann
>mark@dk-online.dk (home)
>mse@oticon.dk (work)
>http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:53:06 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:

>SD Mooney wrote:
>> A job for the 'Restored Canon Church of Sylea' methinks.

>Does this mean that some of my submissions made the cut?
>I hope so.

That may be the case - have a look in the book when your author's copy
arrives - the RCCS is nestling there, right next to the picture of... could
it be the Azhanti Inquistion?

Dom (catching up)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:57:09 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: TNE Questions

John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:

>> d.  Again TNE, what is the nature of the phenomenon that is causing chaos
>> in Zhodani space, observed by the Imperial passive collection system?
>
>	Doug Berry said that it was the Empress Wave (EW).  It actually
>can't be.  If you look at the geography of Known Space and remember that
>the EW travels at light speed then Zho and Vargr space would have been
>disrupted by the EW long before the Collapse.
>	In the Refs section of the RSB, it says that it is not known
>whether the disruption of Zho society is caused by the EW or whether the
>Zhos have been "infected" by something from their core expeditions.
>Given that I've just shown that it can't be the EW in isolation, it must
>be the infection.  The EW could easily be an enabling device for the
>"infection" but the EW is not itself the cause of the Zho unrest.

Look at Survival Margin - there are hints at the start of EW/Longbow bit
that something is coming.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:43:27 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:03:04 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>


>Secondly: it just doesn't "fit" with the background. Somehow the idea of
>rating
>the Imperium's latest dreadnought according to it's length in yards feet and
>inches and seeing its weight in tons and pounds just doesn't work for me.

Actually, the idea the Imperium uses kilogram, metric tons, meters,
centimeters, etc. is also a stretch.  (One would expect Vilani
units to be most prevalent).  To me, it a case of roleplaying.
We don't really try to speak Galanglic at sessions and we don't
really try and use Vilani "cubits" to measure.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:48:14 -0600
From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: metric in G:T

I haven't ever played GURPS, so I don't have any of it's background in my mental file.  However, after 20 years of playing Traveller using SI units, there is a lot of baggage to deal with.  The baggage is both mental and background related.  The worst case scenario I can imagine people here on the TML accepting happily is having a dual measurment system embedded in the text (like most of the product containers in the US now, ex:  "Net Wt. 3oz. (85g)").  I personally would prefer remaining exclusively with the SI system for Traveller, but I realize that compatibility with the rest of the product line may have significant influence (after all, we have problem with Windows 98 because it still has to be able to run programs written for DOS 1.0).  Another possibility would be to produce an addendum or appendix that would give the formulas and equipment stats in SI terms (this is less good than my other suggestion IMO).
- - Joseph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:48:22 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

Mon, 21 Sep 98 08:41:00 GMT , s.johnson107@genie.com

>    Been watching this Earth Story miniseries on TLC and a thought crossed my
>mind that I thought I'd toss out to the list.  If you have active plate
>tectonics on a world, what happens when you have a low percentage of
>hydrosphere to create sea floor spreading?  As far as I can tell you NEED a
>large percentage of the surface to be covered with water to provide the
>thinner
>crust to drive the tectonic process to create new crust.
>
>    On really low hydrosphere worlds you could well have portions of the
>process going on above water.  What kind of effects would that have on the
>planet?

Speading tends to occur under oceans because spreading zones
are low spots and water tends to collect there, not because you
need water to open up a rift zone.

There is a theory that you need water to keep plates from locking
up (primarily at subduction zones) but I think its just a theory.

>    More to the point, what happens to a world when cut down the temperature
>regulator that the oceans represent?

You get a somewhat greater temperature variation.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:40:49 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Hypercard on PC?

Is anyone aware of any software (preferably freeware) which will let you
run Hypercard stacks on the PC? I've had a free queries about running Rob
Prior's Hypercard Traveller material under windows, instead of on the Mac,
and I'd like to help the enquirers out.

Dom

PS (Rob's MacOS shareware and freeware for Traveller can be found at
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/RPS.html )

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:45:27 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re:Virus LIVES

William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net> wrote:

>There is nothing in the G:T TNS that says there is not a Project Longbow,
>as a matter of fact the thing is Pre-1116.  If so, does that mean that
>Strephon has made contact with the "Empress"?

GURPS Traveller mentions that Longbow(*) was shutdown. I don't recall what
it said about Longbow II, and if I did I wouldn''t be at liberty to discuss
the details of such a secret Imperial project, if it existed at all.

>Be afraid...
>Be VERY afraid...
>FNORD!

"You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

Dom (catching up....)

* Anyone caught the reference to this in 101 Religions yet?

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:52:40 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS questions

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:

>>From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
>>* Why would I want any other hull material than composite laminate? The
>>others are more expensive and heavier...
>
>They also have more toughness per cm of thickness, and toughness is what
>counts.

Unless you're up against a liddle biddy meson gun courtesy of Famille
Spofulam....

Dom

(catching up)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:35:39 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Burning Questions

Steinar Knutsen <sk@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
>> > Sounded even more apocalyptic than Virus.

>"Something wonderful is happening."

response for a CT/MT diehard - 'I'm sorry Dave(*), I can't let you do
that'. ;-)

Dom (catching up...)

*Nilsen...

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:16:01 +0200
From: Philip ESPI <Philip.Espi@Capway.com>
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

s.johnson107@genie.com wrote:
> 
>     Been watching this Earth Story miniseries on TLC and a thought crossed my
> mind that I thought I'd toss out to the list.  If you have active plate
> tectonics on a world, what happens when you have a low percentage of
> hydrosphere to create sea floor spreading?  As far as I can tell you NEED 

I'm not that sure you NEED 

> a large percentage of the surface to be covered with water to provide the thinner
> crust to drive the tectonic process to create new crust.

Here on earth you can find a rift above sea level (somewhere in Erythrea
or Ethiopia I believe), where two plates are drifting away from each
other (the African and tha Asian plates IIRC).

It looks like a kind of lunar landscape with some fumes and, from place
to place, you can see some reddish heated rock (but no lava), nothing
very impressive, compared to an active volcano (even a small one)
> 
>     On really low hydrosphere worlds you could well have portions of the
> process going on above water.  What kind of effects would that have on the
> planet?

maybe less minerals dissolving in the water and more beeing freed in the
atmosphere, tainting it a little

> 
>     More to the point, what happens to a world when cut down the temperature
> regulator that the oceans represent?

Huge dust storms clouding the surface from the sun and lowering ground
temperature
I've always pictured dry worlds to be continually "wiped" by huge dust
storms lasting several days and coming back regularly (at least if they
have an atmosphere thick enough to carry dust or sand - at least thin
atm don't you think ?)
> 
>     Well Earth Science Types?  Am I off base or is this single variation go to
> create lots of interesting problems?

Sure it would (but I'm not a geologist and I could be Waaaay off target)

- -- 
Phil
- --------------------------------
Do or do not,
There is no try.
                 Yoda (SW:TESB)

Mailto:Philip.Espi@Capway.com
- --------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #835
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com

Traveller-digest     Monday, September 21 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 836



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Transponders
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: GT Measurements
Re: Transponders
Re: Metric and measurement stuff
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Future computing (was Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring)
Re: Transponders [long]
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
RE: Expanded Starship Encounters
Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)
Re: Transponders
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: Future computing (was Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:56:30 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>>I think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of
>>commonly
>>available conversion applications.

>I don't want to have to convert a number every time I play, or go throught
>the book pencilling in changes.

I didn't have any problem.  The only unit that matters in combat
is the yard and you convert that by saying 1 yd = 1 meter.  Space
combat is always in "hexes".  You don't add up encumbrance very
often and just use 2 Lbs = 1 Kg.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:02:43 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

> > think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of commonly
> >available conversion applications. 
 
 Yes it's relatively easy to work around, but (juding from the opinions
expressed 
 here) it is a major factor in a lot of established players minds.

I'd change it if I could, but it is not a matter I have a lot of influence
over. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:25:58 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

In a message dated 9/20/98 7:38:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<  How many trawlers with deck guns would it take to threaten a modern
 missile patrol boat? OC, given the 3I's demonstrated naval budget (even
 the lower versions) then the IN simply need not take any internal force
 seriously wrt fleet actions.
  >>
One more than the PCM has missiles.... :-). Seriously; I get your point

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:29:09 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm wrote:

> Is it worth purchasing? What does it contain?

I think so.  It is one of the better IG publications.

Introduction (10pp)
Psionics in Milieu 0 (12 pp)
  Creating Institutes with a UID (universal institute descriptor),
   New Powers (only a few), New Rules (few), World Psioniphobia and
   Psioniphilia.
Psionics & Society (13 pp)
  Pro and Anti Psionic movements, etc.
Institutes (17 pp)
  Samples
Personalities (11 pp)
Campaigning (6 pp)
Adventures (25 pp)
Patron Encounters (9 pp)


I think the Psionic Institute creation material is most useful for any
Traveller
milieu.  If Psionics are going to be a part of your campaign, its a
must.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:28:34 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

In a message dated 9/20/98 7:57:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, GDWGAMES@aol.com
writes:

<< 
 I think this is a minor problem that can be solved by any number of commonly
 available conversion applications. 
 
 Loren Wiseman >>

Perhaps a conversion table is in order (since the product shipped, how about
putting  it on the SJ website)?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:32:35 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

SD Mooney wrote:

> That may be the case - have a look in the book when your author's copy
> arrives - the RCCS is nestling there, right next to the picture of... could
> it be the Azhanti Inquistion?

But no one expects [GAK] . . . .




Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:30:00 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

In a message dated 9/20/98 8:02:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
smithw@hartwick.edu writes:

<< No, I have no idea how Vargr afford a custom-built asteroid prospecting
 vessel. Just another example of the engimas of alien cultures, I suppose.
 <G> >>

LOTS of charisma, baby! :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:13:07 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT Measurements

Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:14 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>YUCK!!!!!! Well in my book that is a big strike agin it. Somehow trying to
>figure
>out how many gallons of Lhyd make up a displacement ton just doesn't fit with
>Traveller.

Except that I can't think of a single reason to do this.

(Actually, a displacement ton is hardly "metric" either :-)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:36:16 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:19:33 -0700 (PDT), Brannon Boren
<brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
>But it *doesn't* happen often enough for the companies/governments to
>start mandating that all ships use unforgable/untamperable transponder
>units. My statement wasn't to imply that ship hijacking NEVER happens
>IMTU, just that it is rare enough that the expense of Imperium-wide
>transponders isn't worth it.

They wouldn't really work anyway.  The data would be unverfiable
because it is quite possible that the ship (and its transponder)
arrive before any message containing info you could check it
against.

>Also, like I said, I think that local systems WOULD use transponders, but
>for traffic control, not anti-theft.

I think that systems like Regina would probably give traffic control
priority to ships with some sort of transponder (which makes it
easy to tack location and velocity).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:40:12 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and measurement stuff

>Imperial scientists today announced that 1+1 is, in fact, not 2.  It is
>actually 1.999999999564.

Must be using Pentium processors :-)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:48:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

In mail you write:

> Ice Hockey, ICE HOCKEY!....Here is the twist. Play it on some wierd, 
> dangerous substance? :-)

Well, water ice is one of the few ices on which it is *possible* to
skate. That's because water reaches maximum density *before* it
freezes. And expands when it does freeze. That means that the pressure
on the "blades" of the skates, causes the ice under them to *melt*,
thus lubricating things.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:21:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Future computing (was Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring)

[re-mailed to you from mail]
[the original seemed to come from trrkt@friko.onet.pl]

(Note: I wrote the reply to the list, but since it didn't show up, I
assume the list doesn't accept replies from non-subscribers (I read it
through a Usenet server gateway), so I'd be grateful if you'd forward
it to TML. )

On 14 Sep 98 05:29:35 GMT, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by writing:

>>  ObTrav: Will there be anything like a "desktop" computer at the
>>  higher tech
>> levels, or would the computerized house/pet/wristwatch/pencil be
>> more prevalent?
>
>There are uses for larger displays. 
Preferably real large ones, like a wall-sized one. :)
>And keyboards do have inherent advantages over handwriting
>recognition. 
Agreed. 

>So I expect that your personal computer may be worn on your body
>somewhere. Partly for protection. 
But mainly for portability of documents. It would be, most probably, a
beltpack with the main memory storage unit, a CPU and a PAN (Personal
Area Network) interface. The PAN would get rid of all those pesky
cables (it's a setup that uses the natural electrical field of the
human body to transmit data). 

>You may have "glasses" with virtual display capability built into
>them, 
Probably something like a device that projects the image onto your
retina, for operations on text and such. Also, an eyeball-tracking
device could be used to provide a very big field of view, by checking
where are you looking at and scrolling the virtual display. 

>and you may have a watch as a simple i/o device (a few buttons, maybe
> a microphone, a simple display, and an IR link). 

I doubt that. For low TL devices, you'd probably want to use a
chording keyboard (a device that is held in one hand and allows for
pretty fast typing) and a set of subvocal laryngophones on your neck,
connected to the CPU through the PAN interface. The IR laser link for
longer distance communication than the PDA field allows for
(practically touch-only) would be probably incorporated in either
glasses (look at the receiver), belt pack or both. You could also have
two very small microphones in your ears, using the PAN to communicate
with CPU, that would provide you with sound in addition to vision. 

For a high TL input device, an armband incorporating electrodes would
check the neural activity in hand, and would provide a 'virtual
chording keyboard', without a keyboard. You wouldn't have to budge a
finger, as matter of fact, since the armband would detect the 'will'
to move the finger a bit before it moves. (electrode setups like that
are being done already, AFAIK, but they're a bit unwieldy). 

Using two hands, or, even better, two arms, an a set of macro-commands
attached to specific movements and combinations would allow you to
reach very high typing speeds. 

Also, your belt-pack would probably incorporate a cellular phone with
a built in modem, for electronic mail and news. It doesn't have to be
very fast... 

>For more complex i/o, you'd have an object about the
>size of a PDA that can display larger amounts of data and recognize
>drawings, shorthand, and handwritting. It'll likely have a scanner
>built into one end so you can run it over a page, or drawings on a
>cave wall.

With the virtual retina projected display, you don't need the PDA
sized display. OTOH, a CCD camera that would recognize drawings,
handwriting, could scan pictures from walls or pages etc. would sure
be nice. ;) 

And a PDA sized display could have a laser- or something else-based
projector that would allow for projecting images on walls or screens,
for presentations and things like that. 

>And a "workstation" would be a keyboard, larger display, better
>camera, and hardcopy output device that link via IR or cable to your
>personal computer. It'd also be the link to the data network. 

Workstation would be a holographic display, a very fast link to the
network and a PAN link in your chair. ;)

Well, you don't need the holographic display. OTOH, PAN sensors could
be built in in your house's floor, chairs and beds. Along with a
projector that would work as an on-ceiling screen. Just lie down on
your bed, power the projector up and voila - Quake XII on a biiig
screen ;>>. 

<snip the rest of the stuff I agree with> 

Oh, and one more thing. PAN link can also easily link your wearable
computer with the processor built in your smart weapon. So, for
example, only people with Team 17 identyfing codes in their PAN field
can fire the Team guns. 

As a matter of fact, PAN field can also link you with your battle
dress. ;>>

Leslie
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; 
http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; 
SNAFU; TANJ
  IMTU ?tc t4+ to(CORPS)++ ru-- ge++ !3I jt au- he++ merc+ !st ls !kk hi++ 
as+ !so !vi !sy say++
    Why is 'ABBREVIATION' such a long word?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:23:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Transponders [long]

In mail you write:

>>Standard
>>       As Basic, but also returns r,phi & theta (r is distance from
>>       star, phi is angle from star-planet line, theta is angle from
>>       local "ecliptic")
>>
>
> This depends on some fairly sophisticated astronomical instrumentation -
> you have to not only identify the main world, but also accurately predict
> its orbital plane from what may be a very short sample.  I don't imagine
> the average freighter paying for this - rather, she expects the port to
> provide it to her (if the tech level permits).  Distance from the planet
> (or STC), however, could be obtained from a standardized time-hack in the
> query signal.

It doesn't take *that* sophisticated of equipment to determine this
(see below).  And frankly, the ship *has* to have that much equipment
or they can't navigate upon jumping into a system that *doesn't* have
STC, or when trying to navigate between "lesser" worlds in a system.

In short, the info is supplied by a link to the nav computer. And that
sort of info *is* something that the ship *must* have. 

Consider what happens in case of a radio failure or a misjump. They
*have* to be able to determine the ship's position in the system *on
their own*. 

>>Advanced
>>       As standard, but also includes ship's velocity vectors along
>>       co-ordinate axes (as determined by the Standard packet), and
>>       possibly ship performance related info.
>
> This might be easier to obtain from range-rate analysis of the query signal
> than the astronomical data above.  STC should get some of this from
> range-rate and doppler analysis of the response.
>
>>The leading digits of the ID may be analogous to the "registration
>>numbers" on aircraft. I'd reserve 0000 on the settable digits for ships
>>that have just exited jump, so as to let everybody know they aren't
>>part of the local traffic pattern yet. Once you are assigned an ID by
>>STC (Space Traffic Control), you use it. And "FFFF" is reserved
>>reserved for declaring an emergency.
>
> Current transponders are 3-bit (octal - hence all the 7's); I can see going
> to 4-bit (hexadecimal) in the not-to-distant future (65,536 vs. 4,096
> separate codes), so I agree with this.  In addition, since "FFFF" is a
> standard representation for "-1" in computer-ese, I hereby suggest "4-F" or
> "squawking minus-one" as slang for declaring an emergency (or
> characterizing a situation as out of control - equivalent to SNAFU or FUBAR).

>>BTW, when you file your flight plan for departure, you get assigned the
>>ID to set. And you'd use it until you jump, unless told to change it.
>>
>>The ship's position info in the standard packet is to help traffic
>>control locate the ship and determine just *where* it is, as opposed to
>>merely knowing what *direction* it is in. 
>
> Distance (from time-lag) plus direction gives location.

But it helps to have crosschecks. Among other things, it lets both the
ship and STC know that *something* is wrong if the location the ship is
giving doesn't match where STC thinks it is.

And if they *do* more or less agree, combining the info at least
*halves* the uncertainty in position.

>>The velocity vectors and performance data (max acell, available
>>G-hours, hull-type (non-aero, aero, streamlined)) help STC assign a
>>course and determine which ships are going to have to shift courses if
>>someone has to (if you have to get one of two ships to change courses,
>>you have the one with the most delta-V do it, unless it has to be done
>>*fast*, in which case you may go for the one with the higher accell).
>
> Performance data is also the sort of information that typically gets filed
> in a flight plan, because it depends on the ship's intentions and route fo
> flight.

Sure, but in Traveller, incoming traffic doesn't *have* a flight plan
on file. The "jump flash" when exiting jump is the first indication
that STC has that a new ship has arrived. And they don't know anything
about the ship that their radar/lidar can't tell them until the ship
tells them.

The equipment for determining position and vector info isn't *that*
advanced.

When you exit jump, you look for the brightest light source in the
vicinity. That should be the local star. :-)

A quick spectral check will tell you if it's the right star. And if it
isn't, the computer can quickly find what star the spectrum matches.
Stellar spectra can be determined *far* beyond the greatest possible
misjump, so you *will* have the star in the library. 

Determining the direction and distance of the local star is *easy*. A
simple angular diameter measurement will give you range. And direction
is kinda obvious. 

Determining the plane of the ecliptic is a bit harder. You can get a
rough idea simply by checking for doppler shifts at the edge of the
star. The poles have none, the equator has the most. If you are way
above or below the ecliptic, this will be a problem. 

Next, you'd be scanning for standard nav beacons. If you find such
signals, a couple of them will suffice to locate you in the system
(when used along with the known direction & distance of the star).

And most likely, what you'd pick up first would be the mainworld comm
traffic. 

Once you've got the beacons/mainworld located, you can easily figure
the vectors by measuring doppler shifts. 

If the system is lowtech, then you'll have to waste some time spotting
some planets on your own. At least if it's an explored system you'll
know where to look for the planets (more or less). 

Though, come to think of it, a few star sights will determine your
orientation to more than enough accuracy. The computer would spit out a
list of what the brightest stars visible from the system you are in
are, and then you just spot them, and that gives you your *galactic*
co-ordinates, which are easily (for a computer) transformed into system
co-ordinates.

All of this is doable with little more than a "small" (less than 50 cm)
telescope, and some radio and radar gear you'd need anyway. The sensors
attached to the scope are cheap. Ditto for the pointing gear. But
they'd be *priceless* if you misjump, or if you have to navigate on
your own for some other reason.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:57:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

In mail you write:

> On 09/20/98 at 07:28 AM,  steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> said:
>
>>> Once the intrepid crew of the 'Mae Lee' finally get their ship
>>> working they'll desperately need to earn some cash and a guaranteed
>>> charter is a good way to do it.  However, the only charter available
>>> is a team of footballers on tour.
>
>>American football?  Or Soccer?  
>
> Or something else.  ;-> I had something more akin to rugby/aussie
> rules in mind.

Try Norse Stickball. It's "sport" invented by folks in the SCA. The
"rules" amount to:

Whoever has the ball tries for a goal. 
Everybody else tries to stop him.
Body parts must be returned to the owner.

Folks have been known to play in full armor. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:15:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

In mail you write:

> On 09/19/98 at 11:03 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
>>In mail you write:
>
>>>> Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft
>>>> mouse drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital
>>>> Venturis FX running Windows NT.)
>
>>>         Doesn't MS make its own trackball?
>
>>Yeah. It's *tiny* thing, meant for to be clipped to the side of a
>>laptop. *Totally* unsuitable for the handicapped. 
>
> That's true, but mightn't the drivers for it be usable for other more 
> appropriate trackballs?

Microsoft drivers work with *non*-Microsoft equipment? What cave have
*you* been living in?

Logitech drivers will run Microsoft mice. The reverse is *not* true.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:11:11 -0700
From: "Dean A.Cook" <wolv@powernet.net>
Subject: RE: Expanded Starship Encounters

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDE58C.8C4BC540
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes I would very much like the info.Thanks

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Robert Biggar Iii [SMTP:rwb@tc.fluke.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 3:47 AM
To:	trav
Subject:	Expanded Starship Encounters

I'm not sure on the rules for posting message attachments on the TML, 
but I have a greatly expanded system encounter chart using ship 
designs found on the webring I would be happy to pass on.  It gives 
either 30 or 40 possibilities for each catagory instead of the usual 
8 or 9.  If you would like a copy, please email me direct and I will 
send it to you.
Rob B



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:28:10 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports (was Re: Off topic question)

At 12:48 am 9/21/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> Ice Hockey, ICE HOCKEY!....Here is the twist. Play it on some
wierd, 
>> dangerous substance? :-)
>
>Well, water ice is one of the few ices on which it is *possible* to
>skate. That's because water reaches maximum density *before* it
>freezes. And expands when it does freeze. That means that the
pressure
>on the "blades" of the skates, causes the ice under them to *melt*,
>thus lubricating things.

	But who says it has the be PRESSURE causing the surface to melt, and
hence lubricate things? I recollect Haldeman, in "The Forever War,"
talking about power armor troops learning to walk on a surface of
frozen hydrogen--the minute heat leakage from the soles of their
boots melts and forms a near-frictionless layer. Soldiers who fail to
learn how to "skate" quickly fall. Those who fall on their backs die,
as the high-temp heat exchanger located there flash-vaporizes a
significant chunk of hydrogen with explosive effects ...

	Now THERE'S a weird, dangerous substance on which to play hockey!
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:39:21 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

Having gotten into another discussion w/ my players re:  the likelihood and
possibility of piracy in a star system (i.e. w/in the 100 diameter limit) we
reached a possible compromise.  System control monitors out to the
100-diameter limit, but their sensors are designed to pick up transponder
codes, as opposed to skin paints.  An online aquantaince (an ATC) told me that
most air-traffic radars can only get a skin paint w/ 10-20 miles of the site,
but can read transponders out to hundreds of miles.  Of course milspec sensors
are more powerful...but this gives the possibility of piracy in lower-tech,
backwater systems a bit more credibility.  

Any thoughts (not to re-start the Pirate Wars again)?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:03:15 -0700
From: "Suz Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

> Microsoft drivers work with *non*-Microsoft equipment? What cave have
> *you* been living in?
> 
> Logitech drivers will run Microsoft mice. The reverse is *not* true.

Overall, I share your sentiment, but standard MS drivers run 
my touchpads just fine and quite often other input devices as 
well. Won't give you any 'extra' features the device specific 
driver does, but it will go from point a to point b and click and 
right click, etc. 

Heck, on my Cirque touchpad it even recognizes the upper 
right corner as the right click area. Good thing, too, because 
the Cirque drivers are incompatible with IRQ 12 (or is it 13, 
can't remember) and with logitech drivers. Guess what IRQ 
Win95 put my input device on? (and 3 others at work) and 
what driver it 'plug & plays' my mouse as? Logitech, of course. 
No input device. Sigh. Delete everything and install the 
standard MS driver and it worked. Go figure.

(For my money, don't buy the Cirque toucpads. Get one of the 
others, they are cheaper and don't seem to have the conflicts.)

Suz
Who apologizes profusely for contributing again to OT chatter 
and will go back to quietly lurking again.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:07:37 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Future computing (was Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring)

In a message dated 9/21/98 6:17:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:

<< Oh, and one more thing. PAN link can also easily link your wearable
 computer with the processor built in your smart weapon. So, for
 example, only people with Team 17 identyfing codes in their PAN field
 can fire the Team guns.  >>

I LIKE this idea a lot....Hint: Here is a new thread idea, and a subject near
and dear to my heart; firearm safety. How would firearms (kinetic and energy)
be safeguarded in the future at high Tech levels?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #836
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 838



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Traveller Text Adventures
Piracy!!  (was re: Transponders)
Re: Canadian GURPS (was: 2 new Ship Design Systems)
Re: Traveller Text Adventures 
Re: Sports in traveller
Re: metric in G:T
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #830
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #832
Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: The TL 8 freighter challange
Sprint missile
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #830
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
T5 when?
Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Transponders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:50:58 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Well since we all seem agreed that I am (more or less) interpreting hand to
hand combat correctly (in which you can't interrupt, so lets not worry
about that), does it seem to you like there are many situations where you
are much better off drawing sword and closing rather than firing with a
pistol?
I don't have my books with me today so I can't give a worked example, but
most large blades have a better penetration and damage dice than your
average snub pistol. Also since you are making a Simple roll to hit (3+)
rather than Routine (7+) which most ranged fire works out at it is much,
much easier to roll 4 or 8 higher than needed getting the lovely 4x or 8x
damage.
A bunch of marines boarding with battle axes rather than ACRs might make a
lot more sense. Aside from non-game issues like being easier to wield an
axe in close quarters (I have experience in this) than a rifle (although I
don't have experience in this) those axes have amazing penetration and
damage ratings!
Does anyone remember the old signature illustration in White Dwarf? That of
a pale, short humanoid? Continuing the cross between SF and fantasy it was
drawn as an obvious fantasy dwarf but it had a rifle. Instead of a bayonet
it had a slip-on axe blade. I always thought that was cool. (Or is that an
Elmore picture from Dragon?)

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:04:40 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventures

Paul Sanders wrote:
>Note: During 'playtesting' I experenced some trouble with the Volentine
>Gambit game - not sure if it is a faulty conversion or an emulator glitch -
>I'm working to resolve it, and if there is anything to report I'll post an
>update. 

Me too. I can't even get the damn air/raft to fly. Whenever I try to move
anywhere the system thinks I'm playing with my SMG. After getting hit by
six RAM grenades I quit.
 
>Final Note: Even if you have no interest in playing Traveller text
>adventures [...] I would still encourage you to download the games. Each
>zip file contains text files of ALL the documentation that came with the
>original software - in the case of "Volentine Gambit" this includes a 46
>page LLB with some background information on District 268 and the planet
>Mertactor in particular (set in the midst of the Fifth Frontier War).

I agree wholeheartedly. There's a mass of information about Mertactor.
There's propably a lot more buried in the game, but... <sigh>.

Unfortunately the information isn't quite compatible with other sources.
And I'm also a bit dissapointed that the author dicided to use the Ancients
to explain the physical stats (size 2, atmosphere 6). Apparently the whole
planet is an Ancient artifact. IMO the Ancients are getting seriously over-
worked.

Anyway, that got me thinking about similar planets. With the standard
world generation system 1 planet in 12 has a size 2 and of those planets 2
in 36 have standard atmospheres and 1 in 36 has standard, tainted atmosphere.
So 1 planet in 144 is similar. That's 2-3 per sector; too many for all of
them to be Ancient artifacts. Mertactor is supposed to have a gravity of 0.82
due to a very high density (3.28 Earth normal). Is a relatively high gravity
the only possible explanation for a standard atmosphere? I seem to remember
that the reason why Earth's atmosphere is the way it is is that the moon has
skimmed off a lot of it. Could you have small moonless worlds with fairly
dense atmospheres? How about size 1 worlds? (Size 1 planets with standard
atmospheres are rarer, but there are still about 50 of them in Charted space).

>Anyways - hope you all enjoy, and thanks once again to Marc for agreeing to
>the release of this material as freeware.

I second the motion!
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:27:47 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Piracy!!  (was re: Transponders)

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ah... piracy in lower-tech, backwater systems has always been technically
possible (If there are no system defenses, the pirate can just wait for an
incoming ship and run it down when it arrives with empty tanks). The problem
with lower-tech, backwater systems is that they have fewer and smaller
merchant visits, making it difficult for a pirate to recoup any money
spent on acquiring and maintaining a ship capable of running down and
outfighting a fleeing free trader. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Which keeps pirates rare. Go to rich hunting grounds, have an
encounter with a couple SDB's. Go to safe hunting grounds, starve.
The expense of running a starship in Traveller makes being a pirate
even harder to do. A couple of things that help:

A> Used, mutinied, and stolen ships - especially ships that, for
whatever reason, can't be sold on the open market. When the expense
of acquiring the ship is greatly reduced or eliminated, the only income
you need is for salaries, repairs, maintenance and life support.

B> Bypassed Mains. There are many mains in Imperial space that
once saw all the traffic. With the introduction of better jump drives,
a lot of traffic started bypassing the more marginal worlds along these
mains - instead of every ship stopping by, at least to fuel up, now only
tramp freighters and local business show up. You have low-traffic
backwaters within a jump of more powerful and richer worlds.
The most famous pirate havens of the 18th century were in waters
patrolled by the British navy, the most powerful navy in the world at the
time. The 3i is practically omnipotent, but cannot know everything or
be everywhere.

C> Some leeway on life support and maintenace rules. I allow people 
IMTU to perform annual maintenance "in the field", at the cost of
more time, more risk and more wear on their starships - things an
honest merchant wouldn't want. Some life support costs can be
reduced by stealing lif support materials from ships, bases and
stockpiles. If the conditions on board the pirate ship are rough
enough, stolen supplies may be enough to eliminate the life
support expense all together - but the pirates are living under
conditions only desperate men would endure, and no honest
merchant could get away with.

IMTU, pirates that aren't actually pro starmercs are usually
mutineers or escaped criminals with death sentences already
on their heads. They use beat-up ships that are cold and dark
holes to live in, and they usually have the scars and missing bits
one would expect from their dangerous lifestyle and poor access
to quality medical care. Many are from minor human or alien races
that lack opportunities in the Vilani/Solomani dominated 3i, leading
to pirate crews being a mixed and angry lot. 

Why do they put up with it? Different reasons for each pirate. Some
have nowhere else to go. Some would do anything to get into space.
Some just like the looks on people's faces when you toss them out
the airlock without a vac suit on...

Vargr Corsairs have the right idea for proper pirating, by the way.
Find an area of many squabbling interstellar states, hire out as
a starmerc until you have the money and resources to hit the local
governments up for protection money. Take ships from people who
won't pay up, take ships from people who try to attack those you're
getting protection money from. Eventually you'll be the law, and the
de-facto government of the space between the worlds in your
territory - then you become the government of the worlds in your
territory. Pirate Captain to Emperor - charisma in spades!!!  <G>

Walt Smith

ps: Pirates! A retread of the Great Piracy Debate!! Hooray!!!  <g>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:39:23 -0700
From: Jim Cooper <Jim_Cooper@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Canadian GURPS (was: 2 new Ship Design Systems)

Suzette C. Dollar wrote:
> 
> > The American edition. Not so bad for a fantasy game, when archaic units
> > actually _add_ to the atmosphere, but...
> >
> > Loren, How about making the International edition available up here in the
> > Great White, eh?
>

Patience Rob. Remember we have our little ace in the hole.

Jim Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:08:25 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventures 

> Unfortunately the information isn't quite compatible with other sources.
> And I'm also a bit dissapointed that the author dicided to use the Ancients
> to explain the physical stats (size 2, atmosphere 6). Apparently the whole
> planet is an Ancient artifact. IMO the Ancients are getting seriously over-
> worked.
> 
> Anyway, that got me thinking about similar planets. With the standard
> world generation system 1 planet in 12 has a size 2 and of those planets 2
> in 36 have standard atmospheres and 1 in 36 has standard, tainted atmosphere.
> So 1 planet in 144 is similar. That's 2-3 per sector; too many for all of
> them to be Ancient artifacts. Mertactor is supposed to have a gravity of 0.82
> due to a very high density (3.28 Earth normal). Is a relatively high gravity
> the only possible explanation for a standard atmosphere? I seem to remember
> that the reason why Earth's atmosphere is the way it is is that the moon has
> skimmed off a lot of it. Could you have small moonless worlds with fairly
> dense atmospheres? How about size 1 worlds? (Size 1 planets with standard
> atmospheres are rarer, but there are still about 50 of them in Charted space).

Massive techtonic & volcanic activity would outgass a lot of atmosphere, too,
for a few million years.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:23:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: Sports in traveller

>Try Norse Stickball. It's "sport" invented by folks in the SCA. The
>"rules" amount to:

>Whoever has the ball tries for a goal. 
>Everybody else tries to stop him.
>Body parts must be returned to the owner.

>Folks have been known to play in full armor. :-)

Sounds almost like another SCA favorite of mine,
Dragonball!

Its done just like Norse Stickball, but the 'ball' is actualy a plush
dragon toy.  The body parts are connected through velcro.  the object is
to get the poor defenceless dragon to your goal in one peice, with points
taken off per each body part missing.

I wonder if there is a varaint like that called "Squire-ball" ;->

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:01:40 -0600
From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: metric in G:T

There is a significant difference between the OS DOS 1.0 and programs that were written to run under that OS.  You are correct that the DOS OS did not have subdirectories or many other niceties (like hard drive support) until later versions, but a program written to run under that OS should be able to run under any later versions of DOS (including DOS 7 that underlays Win95/98).
Which brings up some possible elaborations of the Computer skill in Traveller.  With so many worlds, and the significant time lag in the 3I from end-to-end, it is very reasonable to think that there may be different computer OSs, or at least different versions of a main OS that is used Imperium-wide.  It seems more likely to me that there would be different OSs available however.  On this line, perhaps a Computer skill of 1 would include the assumption of familiarity with one computer OS, and that additional levels of skill could be cascaded into additional levels in the OS already known, or additional OSs.
For example, a Computer-1 skill level could represent ordinary user level knowlege, and simple programming (10 print "hi", 20 goto 10).
Computer-2 could represent the "power user" level knowlege, and a bit more programming knowlege ("...so I'll just delete the superuser account, and then the system is completely secure!  Now how do I change this setting?  Oops...)
Computer-2 could represent a professional level of knowlege, allowing one to be officially hired to do computer work.  This would include enough knowlege to become professionally certified in a particular OS (not necessarily being certified, just knowing enough to do so with a few days of cramming).
- - Joseph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:20:55 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:51:14 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
> <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>   
> >YUCK!!!!!! Well in my book that is a big strike agin it. Somehow trying to
> >figure
> >out how many gallons of Lhyd make up a displacement ton just doesn't fit with
> >Traveller.
>
> Except that I can't think of a single reason to do this.
>
> (Actually, a displacement ton is hardly "metric" either :-)     

It's not an SI unit of volume, but neither is the liter; technically, the
SI derived unit of volume is the cubic meter.  The metric tonne (1000 kg)
isn't SI either, but both are units outside the SI that are accepted for
use with SI units.

The liter was originally the volume of a kilogram of "pure water"; this 
is about a cubic decimeter.  The Traveller displacement ton is supposed
to be the volume of a metric ton of liquid hydrogen, at least since late
editions of the Little Black Books (early versions were less than clear
on this).  The displacement ton may not be SI, but it's metric-derived
at least.

The liter wasn't originally *exactly* a cubic decimeter; it was out by
a couple dozen ppm.  Therefore, it lost out to the cubic meter as the
derived unit of volume, and was redefined to be exactly a cubic decimeter
in the early 60s.  For that reason, liters aren't supposed to be used in
high accuracy measurements.  A metric ton of LHyd isn't exactly 14 cubic
meters in volume either, for that matter.

Does GURPS Traveller have the displacement ton?  Are the ships suddenly
ten percent smaller since they're using US short tons of LHyd instead of
the metric ton?  Is *this* why Dulinor's gig blew up?  Inquiring minds
want to know!  :)

  -- Steve Bonneville

PS  One "metric LHyd displacement ton" of 14 cubic meters comes to nearly
    3700 US liquid gallons.  One "US LHyd displacement ton" of 2000 pounds 
    works out to 12.7 cubic meters, or 3355 US liquid gallons.  But then
    again, I suppose that for Traveller we should be using the "Imperial"
    system of measurements.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:30:32 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #830

Hey Sethkimil;
     How about liquid hydrogen hockey?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:46:26 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #832

Ian
     The only problem with having someone take you to your strike, is that
now someone else now knows where the goods are to be found.  If you are a
miner and find a strike of say iridium, you do not want anyone else out
here in the same parsec.  Never mind the medical problems that might happen
while playing with very large rocks and lasers.  The ship with jump drives
gives you the option of returning to medical services maybe in time to save
your partners life.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:15:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> asks,

>>    Been watching this Earth Story miniseries on TLC and a thought crossed my
>>mind that I thought I'd toss out to the list.  If you have active plate
>>tectonics on a world, what happens when you have a low percentage of
>>hydrosphere to create sea floor spreading?  As far as I can tell you NEED a
>>large percentage of the surface to be covered with water to provide the
>>thinner crust to drive the tectonic process to create new crust.
>>
>>    On really low hydrosphere worlds you could well have portions of the
>>process going on above water.  What kind of effects would that have on the
>>planet?

Venus is a "really low hydrosphere world" - i.e. Hydro 0. The Magellan
radar mapping orbiter discovered that the entire surface of Venus was
formed at roughly the same time, about 500 million years ago. This is
*very* weird. One theory claims that Venus has a thicker crust than the
Earth, so heat gets trapped inside rather than being released through
outgassing and volcanism. The heat builds up and builds up, slowly melting
the crust from below, until the *entire surface of the planet* cracks apart
into a vast sea of magma. (Shades of Star Trek 3!) Then it cools down and
re-solidifies for another half-billion years...

Also, it seems that all the rock on Venus has had all the water content
boiled out, making it ten times as hard as Earth rock. As a result,
mountains can be higher and far more steep-sided than on Earth, where the
softer rock would cause them to slump. So Venus has almost-vertical
multi-kilometer-high cliffs, even though the gravity is similar to Earth's.

Mars might also be considered as a model for low-hydrosphere worlds. Most
of the water has seeped into the ground and become permafrost. There are no
signs of continent-building on Mars - instead there are huge shield
volcanoes such as Olympus Mons. But the lack of plate tectonics is probably
a result its small size - it has lost enough heat to become geologically
inactive - rather than its lack of oceans.

Both planets suggest lots of interesting locales for Traveller adventures:
thick-crust worlds undergoing total surface renewal, or non-tectonic worlds
with shield volcanos that reach right out of the atmosphere (hmm, good spot
for a spaceport!)...

Look for a recent book on the solar system, or wander the web for planet
data, and you'll find all sorts of weird locales for your scenarios.

Have fun,

 + GMG +


    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
 `The idea of using rocks as kinetic weapons is not a new one.'
                    -- John Maddox Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:33:02 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

> Well since we all seem agreed that I am (more or less) interpreting hand to
> hand combat correctly (in which you can't interrupt, so lets not worry
> about that), does it seem to you like there are many situations where you
> are much better off drawing sword and closing rather than firing with a
> pistol?

[snip]

Well, it looks like, for game purposes, you might be right.
But realism?  I worry.  I hope Mr. Berry and others working
on At Close Quarters are thinking/have thought about these issues.

> A bunch of marines boarding with battle axes rather than ACRs might make a
> lot more sense. Aside from non-game issues like being easier to wield an
> axe in close quarters (I have experience in this) than a rifle (although I
> don't have experience in this) those axes have amazing penetration and
> damage ratings!

Hmm, but charging down the halls of a starship into braced, steadied,
aimed submachinegun or laser fire on full-auto?  I hope the game
mechanics don't make axes a wise choice in that situation.  But from
what you say, I worry.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:35:14 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The TL 8 freighter challange

Eris reddoch wrote:

> Bruce Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Joe Pettit wrote:
> >
> >>I've been doing some research on Fusion reactions.  There is a clean and very
> >>efficient model that uses 3He + 3He -> H2 + He.  It's greater than 70% >>efficient in converting to electricity with no radioactive byproducts.  The >>only problem is the rarity of 3He.
>
> > What does the fusion reaction in particular have have to do with
> > conversion to electricity? That is, IIRC, a separate part of the
> > reactor. All of the designs so far use neutron absorbing materials to
> > generate heat, whihc is then used to generate electricity.

That's just the point.  3He fusion doesn't produce Neutrons (which are dangerous).  It gathers the electricity directly (or more directly than from heat -> mechanical -> electricity).

>
>
> If the byproducts are charged particles then you could use magnetic
> field techniques to directly draw off electricity. Being non-radioactive
> charged particles would really help.
>
> As long as you are limited to neutronic heating you're going to get much
> lower efficencies.  The fusion pile is just the firebox on a
> steam-electric generator.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, there is a idea associated with a Dr. Post that
> directly draws off electricity from some standard fusion reaction , that
> has something to do with magnetic fields or potential changes or
> something.  I'm not where I can check my notes right now, so I can't
> tell you more, but it sounds good anyway. ;->
>
> > Do you have some references to this reaction?
>
> Yes, references would be nice.

http://elvis.neep.wisc.edu/~neep602/lecture27.html

That particular lecture deals with fusion but there's lots of fascinating stuff in other lectures if you go back to the syllabus.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:39:24 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Sprint missile

Leonard Erickson writes:
>
> I've been trying (off and on) to get some decent info regarding the
> Sprint missile. What I do have makes it a nightmare for anyone that
> gets within range...
>
> You see, the Sprint has an acceleration of 100 g, and an "enhanced
> radiation" (ie neutron bomb) warhead in the 5kT range. There's a
> comment about "zero to Mach 10 in 5 seconds" in one of the posts I have
> saved.
<snip>
>These were late *60s* rockets. 
<snip>
>a.  It was supersonic before it was all the way out of the silo, so it
>'cracked' like a huge rifle bullet. (Piston-assisted launch - think of
>the wadding of a shotgun shell.)
>
>b.  IIRC, second-stage ignition was 1.2 seconds after launch.
>
<snip>
>e.  The Sprint was incredibly maneuverable.  IIRC it was steered by 
>gimbaling the main engine nozzles, and it could do a godawful number 
>of LATERAL G's before things started falling off.

GEEZ! No wonder TL-12 PAD sites scared the bejeezus out of RCES troops
in TNE! Combine a few tens of thousands of TL13-15 versions of these
things with some deep meson sites and you can turn close orbit into an
incredible killing ground. Now I know how Jewell held off the Zhos in
the FFW.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:09:53 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #830

In a message dated 9/22/98 9:40:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lhale@panlabs.com
writes:

<< Hey Sethkimil;
      How about liquid hydrogen hockey?
  >>
That has possibilities... :-) BTW, it's Seth Kimmel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:25:31 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

> Well since we all seem agreed that I am (more or less) interpreting hand to
> hand combat correctly (in which you can't interrupt, so lets not worry
> about that), does it seem to you like there are many situations where you
> are much better off drawing sword and closing rather than firing with a
> pistol?

The officer safety classes for the police here in Calgary teach that, if you
haven't drawn your weapon, and you're facing a man with a knife who is within 30
feet of you, you're in deep trouble. Your opponent will be able to close and
attack before your gun will clear its holster.

I don't recall if the basic MT rules give a penalty for drawing a weapon, but
they certainly don't allow for this case. The police officer, wouldn't be able
to interrupt the guy with the knife. My players and I discussed this, and
tweaked it so that the police officer is not considered "engaged in HTH combat"
until the knife-wielder actually attacks. That way he _can_ attempt an
interrupt.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:36:41 +0000
From: "Jens Maskus" <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de>
Subject: T5 when?

Hi,

At which date can we expect T5 to be released?

Jens
Jens Maskus

Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:53:31 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

At 01:15 PM 9/22/98 -0400, Glenn wrote:

>Look for a recent book on the solar system, or wander the web for planet
>data, and you'll find all sorts of weird locales for your scenarios.

The Nine Planets at:

http://www.seds.org/billa/tnp/

is a great source for worldbuilders.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:10:08 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

At 01:33 PM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Well, it looks like, for game purposes, you might be right.
>But realism?  I worry.  I hope Mr. Berry and others working
>on At Close Quarters are thinking/have thought about these issues.

*whimper*

What do people think?  Right now, we've brought back Recoil and Signature
for ACQ.  Recoil affects the cost of using a weapon, and signature is sort
of nebulous, but is used to define the difficulty of spotting a concealed
firer.  Add in a completely different way of handling autofire, and we're
at the point where we are going to need a new armory to cover all the neat
bits in weaponry.

Do y'all want some sort of "weapon bulk" stat?

>Hmm, but charging down the halls of a starship into braced, steadied,
>aimed submachinegun or laser fire on full-auto?  I hope the game
>mechanics don't make axes a wise choice in that situation.  But from
>what you say, I worry.

In ACQ, if the SMGs had no chance of penetrating the armor (likely in the
case of battledress), the folks in battledress can ignore the fire and move
into contact and start flailing about with axes.

If there is any danger from the defenders, they attackers have to make a
task to act under the surpressive fire.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
|----------------------------------------|
| "The best tank terrain is that without |
|  anti-tank weapons."                   |
|            -Russian Military Doctrine  |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:00:09 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 10:07 PM 9/21/98 EDT, you wrote:

>I LIKE this idea a lot....Hint: Here is a new thread idea, and a subject
>near and dear to my heart; firearm safety. How would firearms (kinetic and 
>energy) be safeguarded in the future at high Tech levels?

Hmmm... A little device that only allows the registered owner to fire the
weapon?  Reading the palm/finger print of the wielder perhaps? (Drawback:
what if the shooter is wearing gloves?)

Onboard ship, I'd have the weapons smartlinked to the ship's computer.  The
computer recognizes crew members authorized weapons and disables weapons in
unauthorized hands.  Anything from freezing the firing mechanism to actual
destruction of important parts.  This wouldn't affect purely mechanical
weapons like revolvers, which is probably why so many merchant Captains
carry the things!
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:14:07 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

At 07:29 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm wrote:
>
>> Is it worth purchasing? What does it contain?
>
>I think so.  It is one of the better IG publications.

>Psionics & Society (13 pp)
>  Pro and Anti Psionic movements, etc.

These are written from a Milieu:0 perspective.  Adjusting the rules as
written to a more standard anti-psi Imperial campaign would require some work.

I'd just like to say as a member of a minority that recieves the same sort
of threats and hate that is written into PI, that the end result of that (a
universe where psionics are hunted down and killed), makes ever more wary
of the real-world haters.  Great job all around.


- --

+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:23:44 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Transponders

At 07:06 PM 9/20/98 -0700, you wrote:

>  How many trawlers with deck guns would it take to threaten a modern
>missile patrol boat? OC, given the 3I's demonstrated naval budget (even
>the lower versions) then the IN simply need not take any internal force
>seriously wrt fleet actions.

Or, as it was said in a past game:

"It has has weapon bays larger than your entire ship."

"We surrender."
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #838
**********************************

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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 22 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 839



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Metric and GT
Re: Transponders
Re: T5 when?
Re: Future computing 
Re: firearms safeguards in the future
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Sports in traveller
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: About low hydrosphere worlds
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #835
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Traveller Sports
Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: metric in G:T
Re: Transponders
Re: Traveller Text Adventures
Re: Transponder ... possibly mutating into piracy
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Traveller in malls
re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: Re : Re Rocketry 100
Re: Future computing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:31:37 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:20:33 -0800, Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>I think that the Imperium _does_ use the metric system.  The Solomani
>(that's us) used the metric system.  When they conquered the Vilani they
>imposed the metric system as them.

An assumption at best.  The rule of man was so superficial that I
don't see trying to impose how the common people measure and
package.

In any case, we are talking about _millenia_ since then, metric
so far is a flash in the pan compared to that.

You can assume that they use metric, but that is hardly the only viable
assumption.  The odds are good that the Imperium uses a system of
measurement that is neither metric or English and it makes sense
to, when you translate dialog to the English language, to translate
the measurements to whatever system ones players are most confortable
with.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:38:54 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:40:10 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:19:33 -0700 (PDT), Brannon Boren
>><brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
>>>But it *doesn't* happen often enough for the companies/governments to
>>>start mandating that all ships use unforgable/untamperable transponder
>>>units.

>It is canon that transponders are required on all Imperial ships.

I think he is arguing that this was a dumb move.

>>They wouldn't really work anyway.  The data would be unverfiable
>>because it is quite possible that the ship (and its transponder)
>>arrive before any message containing info you could check it
>>against.

>It is possible, yes, but not "quite possible". That is, it would be quite
>rare for any civilian ship to outrun its latest registration. It would
>happen occasionally, but not, IMO, all that often. So those ships that did
>would stand out like sore thumbs. Whether the local system authorities would
>do something about it is a different matter.

I don't agree.  Anywhere off the Xboat route, any ship travelling
systematically in one direction will be likely too.  In any case,
if you have _any_ ships that get ahead, that means that a ship
can always claim to be one of those.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:46:40 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: T5 when?

Jens Maskus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> At which date can we expect T5 to be released?

Good luck getting an accurate answer.

I believe Mr. Miller has said that he _hopes_ to have T5
published in the fall of 1999.

I hope that there would be an announcement when he does
make an agreement with publisher.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:50:48 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Future computing 

Sethkimmel@aol.com posted:
>
>In a message dated 9/21/98 6:17:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:
>
><< Oh, and one more thing. PAN link can also easily link your wearable
> computer with the processor built in your smart weapon. So, for
> example, only people with Team 17 identyfing codes in their PAN field
> can fire the Team guns.  >>
>
>I LIKE this idea a lot....Hint: Here is a new thread idea, and a subject
near
>and dear to my heart; firearm safety. How would firearms (kinetic and
energy)
>be safeguarded in the future at high Tech levels?

Easiest thing would be to have an electronic action (gauss weapons
come to mind) which is linked to a microchip/scanner in the weapon
grip(s) containing the owner's DNA code. An invalid match results
in the weapon simply not working. I'd assume such a feature to be
available at the lowest TL which allows complete DNA sequence
reading and microchip manufacture.

An example of this kind of effect can be found in the classic scifi
book, "Logan's Run". An even nastier version could include a microcharge
in the grip(s) which detonates with the force of a weak grenade if the
weapon continues to be held by unauthorized personnel.

I'd limit it to customized civilian or covert weapons, though. Full
body armor of the kind worn by most military units (cloth, CE suits,
etc.) tends to get in the way of a decent DNA scan on the hands, paws,
or other holding appendage. Assuming the armor includes some kind of
glove or gauntlet, of course.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:01:55 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: firearms safeguards in the future

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Future computing (was Re: Re(2): Traveller Deckplans Webring)
...
><< Oh, and one more thing. PAN link can also easily link your wearable
> computer with the processor built in your smart weapon. So, for
> example, only people with Team 17 identyfing codes in their PAN field
> can fire the Team guns.  >>
>
>I LIKE this idea a lot....Hint: Here is a new thread idea, and a subject near
>and dear to my heart; firearm safety. How would firearms (kinetic and energy)
>be safeguarded in the future at high Tech levels?

  Some sort of user-ID (as well as IFF) would be quite useful in shipboard
quarters, particularly if the ref likes gadgets like remote or response
activated weapons (set weapons' electronics [radar sight?] to blast away at
first target seen when a door slides aside, etc., or leave a laser weapon
set up to blaze away at anything to cross its' line of fire).

  If you did use such options then it would make sense that targets from 
the same ships' troops contingent would require manual operation, and that
only an authorized user (appropriate combat armour suit/squad/detachment)
could set a weapon for non-manual operation.

  Perhaps a finger-print reader on the pistol-grip (or retina scanner on
the integrated electronic sight? - eye control of many shoulderarm or suit
functions is quite practical in a no-hands situation as long as you've got
practice and steady nerves).

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:02:45 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

>
>Onboard ship, I'd have the weapons smartlinked to the ship's computer.  The
>computer recognizes crew members authorized weapons and disables weapons in
>unauthorized hands.  Anything from freezing the firing mechanism to actual
>destruction of important parts.  This wouldn't affect purely mechanical
>weapons like revolvers, which is probably why so many merchant Captains
>carry the things!


A guass rifle could be limited in acceleration enough only to injure a
hijacker sitting in the computer room, so that the rounds do not over
penetrate and damage the computer.  This could be used with the densitometer
sensors of the ship.



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:18:36 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: Sports in traveller

>From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
>Sounds almost like another SCA favorite of mine,
>Dragonball!
>Its done just like Norse Stickball, but the 'ball' is actualy a plush
>dragon toy.  The body parts are connected through velcro.  the object is
>to get the poor defenceless dragon to your goal in one peice, with points
>taken off per each body part missing.

To which I have one thing to say. Trollball. ;-)

http://gateway.bayswater.schnet.edu.au:81/~mob/liveactiontrollball.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:22:40 +0200
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> Hmmm... A little device that only allows the registered owner to fire the
> weapon?  Reading the palm/finger print of the wielder perhaps? (Drawback:
> what if the shooter is wearing gloves?)

You could always get a small passive chip mounted in a glove/hand that gets
interrogated by a sensor in the grip. I believe that a number of TL8 cars use
something similar in their keys as part of the immobiliser system.

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:21:12 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> Hmmm... A little device that only allows the registered owner to fire the
> weapon?  Reading the palm/finger print of the wielder perhaps? (Drawback:
> what if the shooter is wearing gloves?)
>

Actually S&W is working on this right now, as a way of protecting cops
from being shot with their own guns. A sensor in the grip picks up a
signal from a ring they wear on their gun hand. IIRC it is close to if
not in production.

Of course this makes a really sick truth about being married to your
gun, but...:-0

Given the probable prevalence of 'data rings' as described im M0, and
the current 'java ring' technology which is so similar, ther could be a
lot of smart data fed a gun in a Trav world, from 'This person is
authorized to fire this weapon' to 'This is Joe, on the firing range he
consistently fires high and to the left...compensate!' to 'This is
Sally. her normal carry and practice weapon is a Gridlore P325a. This
Famille Grungebucker 75 is lighter with higher recoil. She'll fire high
and right after the first shot. Compensate her sights!'

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:41:32 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds

neo@total.net posted:
>
>Venus is a "really low hydrosphere world" - i.e. Hydro 0. 
<snip.
>Mars might also be considered as a model for low-hydrosphere worlds.
<snip>
>Both planets suggest lots of interesting locales for Traveller adventures:
>thick-crust worlds undergoing total surface renewal, or non-tectonic worlds
>with shield volcanos that reach right out of the atmosphere (hmm, good spot
>for a spaceport!)...
>
>Look for a recent book on the solar system, or wander the web for planet
>data, and you'll find all sorts of weird locales for your scenarios.
>
>Have fun,

Definitely check out the NASA and Jet Propulsion Lab sites for planetary
graphics, folks. Particularly downloadable videos pertaining to Venus.
I've found an *awesome* "flythrough" video of the surface of Venus using
the Magellan radar map. Absolutely incredible and perfect for video
from surface probes used as part of an adventure. Some freeware players
on the Web even allow you to pause and reverse the video.

Just do a search using the keywords "Venus" and "Magellan". Keep in mind,
though, that these .MOV files are *big* (i.e. anywhere from 2 to 23 meg!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:53:36 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #835

Mr. Kimbal
     The Stutterwarp ship can travel a number a parsecs equall to its
efficiency rating (ie. a ship with a three rating can move 3 parsecs in one
day, and then needs to discharge for 40 hours in a 0.1 gravity-well).  The
efficiency of a Stutterwarp ship is equal to the square root of the amount
of energy applied divided by the tonage of the ship and then multiplied by
the tech level plus 4.  This means they better your tech level the less
power it will require to travel the same distanc, also it means that the
more power you can apply the farther you will be able to travel.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:13:45 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Stuff about the displacement tons being "metric derived"....
The point is that they are not standard metric (let along SI
units).  They don't really have any advantage over any other
unit of volume (unless you plan on floating your ships in
liquid hydrogen :-).

>Does GURPS Traveller have the displacement ton?  Are the ships suddenly
>ten percent smaller since they're using US short tons of LHyd instead of
>the metric ton?  Is *this* why Dulinor's gig blew up?  Inquiring minds
>want to know!

Vehciles doesn't.  Based on playtest draft, GT introduces a unit called
"hull class" which ships can be rated by.  It is 500 cf (which just
"happens" to be about a displacment ton).  This was done to avoid
confusion with a "real ton".

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:28:55 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Sports

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 9/21/98 6:31:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:
>
> << Try Norse Stickball. It's "sport" invented by folks in the SCA. The
>  "rules" amount to: >>

> How about Aztec Basketball. If I remember correctly, the losers were
> sacrificed?

Actually, no. The *winners* were. And they fought hard to win. 

That's a *good* example of a *different* culture. We have trouble with
the idea of people *wanting* to be sacrificed. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:24:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

In mail you write:

> I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
> of choice for belters.
>
> I'm more inclined to think it would be a 20-30 dton launch, fitted out with
> closed life support that is taken to and from systems by Free Trader -
> otherwise you have all this cost and space taken up by jump drives you dont
> use much.

Actually, in most "belts", you'd use the jump drive every time you
decide it's time to hit one of the *big* bases (either for supplies or
to sell ore). An "in system" jump is a heck of a lot faster than any
other means of crossing multiple AUs.

Consider that *our* asteroid belt has a "circumference" of something
like 30 AU! 

I don't think "small craft" have enough life support for the sort of
trip durations you're looking at.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:45:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: metric in G:T

In mail you write:

> There is a significant difference between the OS DOS 1.0 and programs
> that were written to run under that OS.  You are correct that the DOS
> OS did not have subdirectories or many other niceties (like hard
> drive support) until later versions, but a program written to run
> under that OS should be able to run under any later versions of DOS
> (including DOS 7 that underlays Win95/98).

But as of DOS 6, DOS no longer supports FCB file access calls. DOS 1
*only* supported FCB type calls. So the program can't access *any*
files. Including STDIN/STDOUT/STDERR.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:34:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

In mail you write:

>>Also, like I said, I think that local systems WOULD use transponders, but
>>for traffic control, not anti-theft.
>
> I think that systems like Regina would probably give traffic control
> priority to ships with some sort of transponder (which makes it
> easy to tack location and velocity).

Actually, I'd expect them to be a lot like the busier US airports. If
you domn't have a transponder, you aren't *allowed* into the traffic
pattern. It's too much of a hassle for ATC to keep track of you.

Likewise, the really small ships, and small craft may not be allowed to
land/dock at the main port. They get to use the secondary port. Sort of
like here in Portland. You fly an airliner (even the little puddle
jumper commuter ones) or a corporate jet, and you get to use Portland
International. If you are flying a private *prop* plane, you get to
land across the river at Pierson Air Park, or out at the Hillsboro
airport (about 10 and 20 miles from PDX, respectively).

Your 100 ton scout may wind up at some minor facility in the boonies,
because you aren't important enough for the main port to want you
messing up their nice traffic patterns.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:01:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventures

In mail you write:

> Anyway, that got me thinking about similar planets. With the standard
> world generation system 1 planet in 12 has a size 2 and of those planets 2
> in 36 have standard atmospheres and 1 in 36 has standard, tainted atmosphere.
> So 1 planet in 144 is similar. That's 2-3 per sector; too many for all of
> them to be Ancient artifacts. Mertactor is supposed to have a gravity of 0.82
> due to a very high density (3.28 Earth normal). Is a relatively high gravity
> the only possible explanation for a standard atmosphere? I seem to remember
> that the reason why Earth's atmosphere is the way it is is that the moon has
> skimmed off a lot of it. Could you have small moonless worlds with fairly
> dense atmospheres? How about size 1 worlds? (Size 1 planets with standard
> atmospheres are rarer, but there are still about 50 of them in Charted 
> space).

The moon skimming idea was pretty much clobbered a *long* time ago.
Venus just managed to bake all the CO2 out of the crust, while Earth has
*huge* deposits of carbonate rock, and of carbon (coal & oil).

Let our "greenhouse" effect run away, and we might wind up like Venus too.

To have a substantial atmosphere, you need high gravity, *or* you can
just dump enough gases on a planet and they'll hang around for a while.

For example, if you gave the moon a breathable atmosphere it'd take
somewhere between a few centuries and a few millenia for it to get too
thin to breathe.

So a *young* planet, especially one with lots of volcanic activity
might have a moderately dense atmosphere. 

Or you can place it way out in the system. Titan has an atmosphere
about as dense as Earth's. But it's far enough from the Sun that solar
radiation doesn't breakdown a lot of the heavier molecules, and it's
cold enough that the lighter ones have trouble escaping.

So you can go with cold, massive, or new.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:35:13
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Transponder ... possibly mutating into piracy

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Transponders
>
>Having gotten into another discussion w/ my players re:  the likelihood and
>possibility of piracy in a star system (i.e. w/in the 100 diameter limit) we
>reached a possible compromise.  System control monitors out to the
>100-diameter limit, but their sensors are designed to pick up transponder
>codes, as opposed to skin paints.  An online aquantaince (an ATC) told me
that
>most air-traffic radars can only get a skin paint w/ 10-20 miles of the site,
>but can read transponders out to hundreds of miles.  Of course milspec
sensors
>are more powerful...but this gives the possibility of piracy in lower-tech,
>backwater systems a bit more credibility.  
>
>Any thoughts (not to re-start the Pirate Wars again)?
>
>DustyLV769@aol.com

Yeah. Standard Traveller sensors pick up ships to well outside 100
diameters. They wont neccessarily get a good enough signal for an ID, but
that is what radio message and an investigating launch is for.

Backed up by a couple of Little Bubba long-range thruster-plate powered
kinetic-kill missiles, of course.

Total system cost will be around MCr 100, which means any dirtball can
afford it, if it is prepared to outsource it's custom duties business to
Famile Spofulam's Finance Division, of course.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:51:57 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Date sent:      	Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:43:27 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:03:04 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
><a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>

>>Secondly: it just doesn't "fit" with the background. Somehow the idea of
>>rating
>>the Imperium's latest dreadnought according to it's length in yards feet and
>>inches and seeing its weight in tons and pounds just doesn't work for me.

>Actually, the idea the Imperium uses kilogram, metric tons, meters,
>centimeters, etc. is also a stretch.  (One would expect Vilani
>units to be most prevalent).  To me, it a case of roleplaying.
>We don't really try to speak Galanglic at sessions and we don't
>really try and use Vilani "cubits" to measure.

Funny you should mention that.... In my work on the Interstellar Wars era I was 
confronted by exactly this problem (ie it make no sense for the 1st Imperium to 
use SI units) and I've started working on a Vilani measurement system (I 
posted some basic work on the Trav-lang list a few months back) and I will be 
developing my Vilani ships and equipment using this system (if there is any 
interest I'll post what I've done so far). It might seem like a minor point, but I 
think the extra depth is well worth the effort.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:51:57 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Date sent:      	Mon, 21 Sep 1998 06:55:46 -0700
From:           	Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>

>At 04:03 PM 9/21/98 +1200, you wrote:
>>Secondly: it just doesn't "fit" with the background. Somehow the idea of
>rating 
>>the Imperium's latest dreadnought according to it's length in yards feet and 
>>inches and seeing its weight in tons and pounds just doesn't work for me.

>Heh - imagine that - an American game featuring American units of
>measurement. Is it just me, or might not most Americans find that that
>feature just *does* work for them.... If I were playing a game that
>originated and continued to be produced in a country that used metric as
>its standard of measurement, then I'd be willing to accept the fact that I,
>as an American, would need to make some conversions from metric, and the
>reverse is also true.

Its not the game system, its the background setting (though I would point out 
that a significant portion of Traveller material comes from places other than the 
US nowadays :*>). I can see why _the 3rd Imperium_ might use SI units, I 
can't see why they would use Imperial/American units. To me the dichotomy 
detracts from the overall background of the setting. Its not that I can't 
think/visualise in the units, its that they don't "fit" with the setting; when I run 
games for Cthuhlu by Gaslight I use Imperial units because they "fit" the 
setting, when I run Traveller games I use SI units because they "fit" the setting.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:41:30 -0700
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller in malls

I cann't think of any hobby stores but check out Uncle Hugo's/Uncle
Edgar's.  One of the
best SF and Mystery book stores in the USA.  Last time Iwas there
(several years ago)
I did pick up one or two game items.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:39:27 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: MT Hand to Hand

Steve Daniels writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hmm, but charging down the halls of a starship into braced, steadied,
aimed submachinegun or laser fire on full-auto?  I hope the game
mechanics don't make axes a wise choice in that situation.  But from
what you say, I worry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Realize that in that particular situation, you aren't in HTH combat yet.
You charge down the hallway to get into HTH, I can interrupt you
with my gauss rifle and cut you in half.

Let's say I miss, and you get into HTH combat range (or do some other
tactic that takes advantage of cover and whatnot to get to HTH).
We're bumping chests with each other, suddenly a melee weapon
may have an advantage over a rifle.

I would, however, allow people using very short firearms (pistols, some
SMG's) to treat those weapons as HTH combat weapons. Anyone
ever hear of Gunkata (sp?)? It's a close-combat martial arts style
where, instead of a sword or nunchaku, the weapon is a handgun.
Not a style one uses for sport, of course - I think it comes from the
Hong Kong organized crime scene.

I've also heard of a training program for police officers and security
specialists that teaches you how to use your gun effectively in
bad situations - when you've been knocked down, when someone
is struggling with you, etc. Very different than the training one would
get on a regular pistol range, or even a combat simulator.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:39:18 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Re : Re Rocketry 100

At 08:55 pm 9/21/98 PST, you wrote:
>f.  The reasons for needing the Sprint were (1) with a FOBS 
>(fractional orbit) rather than ballistic launch, the RVs would be 
>already at the edge of the atmosphere when they came over the
horizon,
>and (2) even with a ballistic launch where the PAR could detect 'em
on
>the way up, they would deploy too many dummy warheads for the
Spartans
>to get them all.  Once they hit atmospheric re-entry, we could sort 
>out which was which - anything which didn't slow down very fast was
a 
>real warhead by definition, since nobody would be stupid enough to 
>build a dummy which massed as much as a real bomb!  Unfortunately,
by 

	Not a very valid discriminant ... nobody says it has to mass the
same, just have a similar ballistic coefficient and radar return.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:33:54 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Future computing

Smart, David J (David) wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> I'd limit it to customized civilian or covert weapons, though. Full
> body armor of the kind worn by most military units (cloth, CE suits,
> etc.) tends to get in the way of a decent DNA scan on the hands, paws,
> or other holding appendage. Assuming the armor includes some kind of
> glove or gauntlet, of course.

Besides, when your squad-mate with the heavy support weapon goes down,
you want to be able to pick it up yourself, and drive on with the
airborne mission....

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #839
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 840



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Metric and GT
Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe. 
TNS
Ship displacement
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Transponders
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Ship displacement
Re: Traveller Text Adventures
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Sports in traveller
Re: TNS
Re: Ship displacement
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Transponders
Re: Piracy!
Re: Transponders
re: Transponders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:47:46 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

David P. Summers wrote:
> 
> Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:20:33 -0800, Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
> >I think that the Imperium _does_ use the metric system.  The Solomani
> >(that's us) used the metric system.  When they conquered the Vilani they
> >imposed the metric system as them.
> 
> An assumption at best.  The rule of man was so superficial that I
> don't see trying to impose how the common people measure and
> package.
> 
> In any case, we are talking about _millenia_ since then, metric
> so far is a flash in the pan compared to that.
> 
> You can assume that they use metric, but that is hardly the only viable
> assumption.  The odds are good that the Imperium uses a system of
> measurement that is neither metric or English and it makes sense
> to, when you translate dialog to the English language, to translate
> the measurements to whatever system ones players are most confortable
> with.
> 
OTOH, I would expect that the system used in the 3I is a decimal-based
one, as humaniti is geared toward base-10 number systems.  Using metric,
the decimal-based system used throughout late-20th century Terra
(_including_ the US, or at least the US armed forces), makes more sense,
in game terms, than either inventing a new measurement system, or using
feet, inches, pounds, etc.  While inventing a new system would greatly
enhance the futuristic feel of an SF RPG, it would make things more
difficult for the late-20th century human players to get an intuitive
feel for what the measurements represent.  As for using the American
variant of Imperial measurements, that system negates any sense of
rational measurements that one would expect of a star-spanning culture
such as the 3I.

> ____________________________
> Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

- -- 
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|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
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- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:56:06 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

> Di you know that Nasa's sending up a new probe called Deep Space 1 that
> is equipped with an unprooven *Ion* drive? Powered by an unprooven solar
> engine. And guided by an unprooven Super intelligent Navigation Computer.
> I just thought you' like to know. This is one of the coolest things
> sience Pathfinder! *Ion* Drive! Wow!

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:42:22 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe. 

> > Di you know that Nasa's sending up a new probe called Deep Space 1 that
> > is equipped with an unprooven *Ion* drive? Powered by an unprooven solar
> > engine. And guided by an unprooven Super intelligent Navigation Computer.
> > I just thought you' like to know. This is one of the coolest things
> > sience Pathfinder! *Ion* Drive! Wow!

Yeah, I saw that on CNN tonite.  No specs on the specific impulse or guestimated thrust of that puppy, either.  Anybody know where you can cop specs on it?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:54:28 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: TNS

Leonard asks:

>Anybody else have any ideas what the above might mean?

LKW

[Raises hand, looks around, sees that no one else's hand is up, and sheepishly
lowers it again]

Now I suppose you'l want me to _tell_ you...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:12:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: Ship displacement

I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would have
to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is sending out
a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 2
million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:26:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > > Di you know that Nasa's sending up a new probe called Deep Space 1 that
> > > is equipped with an unprooven *Ion* drive? Powered by an unprooven solar
> > > engine. And guided by an unprooven Super intelligent Navigation Computer.
> > > I just thought you' like to know. This is one of the coolest things
> > > sience Pathfinder! *Ion* Drive! Wow!
> 
> Yeah, I saw that on CNN tonite.  No specs on the specific impulse or
> guestimated thrust of that puppy, either.  Anybody know where you can cop
> specs on it?  > 

According to the site http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/

Ion drive   peak      lowest    
   power    2.3kW       500W
   thrust    92mN        20mN
   impuls  3100s       1900s

From the site:

              The ion propulsion system (IPS), provided by NSTAR, uses a
              hollow cathode to produce electrons to collisionally ionize
              xenon. The Xe+ is electrostatically accelerated through a
              potential of up to 1280 V and emitted from the 30-cm thruster
              through a molybdenum grid. A separate electron beam is
              emitted to produce a neutral plasma beam. The power
              processing unit (PPU) of the IPS can accept as much as 2.5 kW,
              corresponding to a peak thruster operating power of 2.3 kW and
              a thrust of 92 mN. Throttling is achieved by balancing thruster
              and Xe feed system parameters at lower power levels, and at the
              lowest thruster power, 500 W, the thrust is 20 mN. The specific
              impulse decreases from 3100 s at high power to 1900 s at the
              minimum throttle level. 


> Keven

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:07:59 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

...
>They wouldn't really work anyway.  The data would be unverfiable
>because it is quite possible that the ship (and its transponder)
>arrive before any message containing info you could check it
>against.

  If the original manufacturers' (or rebuilt) transponder info for starships
built in the late Third Imperium weren't available to the appropriate parties
then one can only conclude that the central gov't considers the availability
of such a database undesirable.

  Explaining such a situation would be quite interesting.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:31:28 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Date sent:      	Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:31:37 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

This is one of the things I love about Traveller, the depth and detail of the 
background.

>Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:20:33 -0800, Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>>I think that the Imperium _does_ use the metric system.  The Solomani
>>(that's us) used the metric system.  When they conquered the Vilani they
>>imposed the metric system as them.

>An assumption at best.  The rule of man was so superficial that I
>don't see trying to impose how the common people measure and
>package.

Actually, the Rule of Man lasted about 400 years more than enough time to 
metricate even the Vilani :*> But they didn't have to metricate the entire Ziru 
Sirka just the 17 or so worlds that became the Sylean Federation. Its quite 
possible that the RoM would have sought to have stamped its authority by 
imposing both Anglic, SI units and the Terran calendar; there are countless 
precidents throughout history (and it exactly what the 3I did with the Office of 
Calendar Complience).

>You can assume that they use metric, but that is hardly the only viable
>assumption.  The odds are good that the Imperium uses a system of
>measurement that is neither metric or English and it makes sense
>to, when you translate dialog to the English language, to translate
>the measurements to whatever system ones players are most confortable
>with.

This for me is one of the things that sets Traveller apart from many other 
games; just why does a vast cosmopolitan interstellar Empire use the weights, 
measures, calendar of one world (albeit a very important world). In many other 
games if this issue was addressed at all, it would be simply explained away as 
above; but Traveller takes the little bit of extra trouble to present a rational 
explaination as to why these units are still used. For me, its details like this 
that really count.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:49:48 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: Ship displacement

> I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would 
have
> to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is 
sending out
> a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 
2
> million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!
That of course depends how long the trip is and if the colonists can 
be in cold storage or not.  You can fit 4 people in an emergency low 
berth, 1 in a standard low berth and 2 in a small stateroom.  Is cost 
an issue?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:42:48 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventures

At 16:04 22/09/98 +0200, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>Mertactor is supposed to have a gravity of 0.82
>due to a very high density (3.28 Earth normal).

This would give it a density only slightly lower than pure Tungsten or
Uranium. Does anyone know if it's possible for U238 to become critcal in
planet sized masses? BOOMMMMM!!!!

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:35:41 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

At 14:50 22/09/98 +0100, Jo_Grant wrote:
>Well since we all seem agreed that I am (more or less) interpreting hand to
>hand combat correctly (in which you can't interrupt, so lets not worry
>about that)

According to my copy (or the errata sheet that came with it, which dates
from 1990), you can interrupt when you are in melee, but you can only
interrupt your opponent.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:44:11 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Sports in traveller

At 11:23 22/09/98 -0400, Commander X wrote:

>>Try Norse Stickball. It's "sport" invented by folks in the SCA. The
>>"rules" amount to:
>
>>Whoever has the ball tries for a goal. 
>>Everybody else tries to stop him.
>>Body parts must be returned to the owner.
>
>>Folks have been known to play in full armor. :-)
>
>Sounds almost like another SCA favorite of mine,
>Dragonball!
>
>Its done just like Norse Stickball, but the 'ball' is actualy a plush
>dragon toy.  The body parts are connected through velcro.  the object is
>to get the poor defenceless dragon to your goal in one peice, with points
>taken off per each body part missing.

I think I'll stand by the original (so far as I know) - Troll Ball.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:21:41 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: TNS

At 11:54 PM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote:

>[Raises hand, looks around, sees that no one else's hand is up, and
sheepishly lowers it again]
>
>Now I suppose you'l want me to _tell_ you...

Oh, no Loren, why would we want to know *that*.. 
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:20:04 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Ship displacement

At 11:12 PM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would have
>to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is sending out
>a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 2
>million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!

Assuming running two people to a small staterrom, the accomidations alone
will be 2 million d-tons.  This doesn't include life support, power plants,
gravitics, drives, etc.

A better bet would be the 6-7 million range.

If you put everbody in low berths, it still isn't much better, but the ship
could priobably be brought in at around 4 million d-tons.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:47:19 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>The odds are good that the Imperium uses a system of
>measurement that is neither metric or English and it makes sense
>to, when you translate dialog to the English language, to translate
>the measurements to whatever system ones players are most confortable
>with.

Exactly my point.  And I'm not comfortable with American units.  (I went
metric three years before Canada did so officially, because I found the
metric system far more logical. Took some arguing to convince my teachers,
though:-)

Alternatively, we could use, say, Sumerian units. They would give a Vilani
flavour to the game, and I suspect _everyone_ would be equally
uncomfortable. I'll volunteer to write Sumerian conversion software...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:56:49 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

>I'd just like to say as a member of a minority that recieves the same sort
>of threats and hate that is written into PI, that the end result of that (a
>universe where psionics are hunted down and killed), makes ever more wary
>of the real-world haters.  Great job all around.
>

What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an employed
white male.  That's no minority.

Just curious because I read your stuff a lot and have not read anything to
make this statement make sense to me.

Dan

>
>--
>
>+---------------------------------------------+
>| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
>|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
>+---------------------------------------------+
>| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
>|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
>+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:47:26 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Dan Eveland wrote:

> >I'd just like to say as a member of a minority that recieves the same sort
> >of threats and hate that is written into PI, that the end result of that (a
> >universe where psionics are hunted down and killed), makes ever more wary
> >of the real-world haters.  Great job all around.
> >
> 
> What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an employed
> white male.  That's no minority.

It is still possible to care for minorities without belong to any of them.
I myself do, and I am a white male currently studyign at a University. I
can't stand racists, as well as anyone else who tries to impose their
'superior' world view on anyone else. I am not religious, but my view on
religion is that people can follow any religion (or lack of religion) they
want, as long as they do not harm anyone else, or try to stuff their
beliefs into the head of someone else. Religion (or lack of it) is a
personal choice, and not one someone else should determine for you.

Rant off.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:07:08 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders

David P. Summers writes:
>Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:40:10 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> 
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>They wouldn't really work anyway.  The data would be unverfiable
>>>because it is quite possible that the ship (and its transponder)
>>>arrive before any message containing info you could check it
>>>against.
> 
>>It is possible, yes, but not "quite possible". That is, it would be quite
>>rare for any civilian ship to outrun its latest registration. It would
>>happen occasionally, but not, IMO, all that often. So those ships that did
>>would stand out like sore thumbs. Whether the local system authorities would
>>do something about it is a different matter.
> 
>I don't agree.  Anywhere off the Xboat route, any ship travelling
>systematically in one direction will be likely too.

That may be true (it depends a lot on what assumptions you make about traffic
to off-the-X-boat routes), but how many ships travel systematically in one
direction off the X-boat routes? Most Free Traders go where their trade and
freight opportunities take them  --  which is as likely to be back the way
they came (or at least in a triangle/circle) as further on.

Furthermore, while you are travelling at jump-2 away from the X-boat routes,
the X-boats are travelling at jump-4 along them. Which means that pretty soon
you reach systems that have heard of you from the other direction. So when
you claim to be the "Driven Snow", eight weeks out of Regina, System Control
will be able to see that no "Driven Snow" left Regina on the date claimed.

>In any case, if you have _any_ ships that get ahead, that means that a ship
>can always claim to be one of those. 

Yes, but can it prove it?

(I've been wondering if we could save time by mumbering the most frequently
reoccuring arguments on the list. That way we could cut the use of bandwidth
down to something like:

>>>>>>>>>14
>>>>>>>>57
>>>>>>>Not if 12
>>>>>>You're crazy! Everybody knows that 89
>>>>>34 you moron!
>>>>Oh yeah? Well, 24 to you!
>>>14!
>>57!!
>14!!!
57!!!!


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:39:00 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Piracy!

Walter Smith writes:

>Which keeps pirates rare. Go to rich hunting grounds, have an
>encounter with a couple SDB's. Go to safe hunting grounds, starve.
>The expense of running a starship in Traveller makes being a pirate
>even harder to do. A couple of things that help:
> 
>A> Used, mutinied, and stolen ships - especially ships that, for
>whatever reason, can't be sold on the open market. When the expense
>of acquiring the ship is greatly reduced or eliminated, the only income
>you need is for salaries, repairs, maintenance and life support.

I'm not sure it holds water, but it is by far the best explanation I've
seen so far. My next pirates will be of this kind.
 
>The most famous pirate havens of the 18th century were in waters
>patrolled by the British navy, the most powerful navy in the world at the
>time. The 3i is practically omnipotent, but cannot know everything or
>be everywhere.

Number 14.

Sorry... ;-)

The analogy fails because 18th cebtury merchants couldn't teleport from
just outside their origin harbor to just outside their destination harbor
and because the relative detection ranges of 18th Century warships and
Traveller warships are very different. I agree that the Imperial Navy
can't be everywhere, but they don't need to be. The proportion of ships
to places that need to be patrolled is far higher for the Imperial Navy
than it was for the Royal Navy.
 
>C> Some leeway on life support and maintenace rules.

Now, that I can relate to. But...

>I allow people IMTU to perform annual maintenance "in the field", at the
>cost of more time, more risk and more wear on their starships - things an
>honest merchant wouldn't want.

Trouble is, that will cut into the "cruising time" for the pirate.

>Some life support costs can be reduced by stealing life support materials
>from ships, bases and stockpiles. If the conditions on board the pirate
>ship are rough enough, stolen supplies may be enough to eliminate the life
>support expense all together - but the pirates are living under conditions
>only desperate men would endure, and no honest merchant could get away with.

Trouble with that is that free traders scrabbling for their next bank
payment could IMO be almost as desperate as pirates ("Well, boys, we have
a choice: Either we eat this week or we keep the ship. What'll it be?")
If you allow pirates to get away with this, you really ought to allow
PCs to get away with it too.

>Vargr Corsairs have the right idea for proper pirating, by the way.
>Find an area of many squabbling interstellar states, hire out as
>a starmerc until you have the money and resources to hit the local
>governments up for protection money.

Watch the first step, it's a doozy. Getting enough strength together to
blackmail the local governments will take some doing unless they are
_very_ small.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:46:58 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders

>
> (I've been wondering if we could save time by mumbering the most frequently
> reoccuring arguments on the list. That way we could cut the use of bandwidth
> down to something like:
>
> >>>>>>>>>14
> >>>>>>>>57
> >>>>>>>Not if 12
> >>>>>>You're crazy! Everybody knows that 89
> >>>>>34 you moron!
> >>>>Oh yeah? Well, 24 to you!
> >>>14!
> >>57!!
> >14!!!
> 57!!!!

Well, if all those arguments are put into a HTML FAQ, each argument could be
indexed and a link could be put in place at each instance.  Not that you could get
anybody to put in the proper coding...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:48:24 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponders

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Furthermore, while you are travelling at jump-2 away from the X-boat routes,
the X-boats are travelling at jump-4 along them. Which means that pretty soon
you reach systems that have heard of you from the other direction. So when
you claim to be the "Driven Snow", eight weeks out of Regina, System Control
will be able to see that no "Driven Snow" left Regina on the date claimed.

>In any case, if you have _any_ ships that get ahead, that means that a ship
>can always claim to be one of those. 

Yes, but can it prove it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is something I think the planetary authorities will have to prove, 
IMO. Here is my reasoning:

A ship comes into port claiming to be _Mae Lee_, a rebuild hull under
new registry from a backwater planet five or six parsecs away.
Starport control has never heard of _Mae Lee_ before, and says
"prove that what you say is true". The captain asks, "How?"

Do the port authorities impound the ship until this irregularity can
be straightened out? If _Mae Lee_'s port of origin is off the X-Boat
routes, a message there and back could take two to three months.
If _Mae Lee_ is working off a ship payment, we're talking hundreds
of thousands of credits she needs to make every month. Even when
she's sitting in an impound orbit.

Do the port officials get a remission put on the payments?

"To: Sky Marshal, Poppel System: regarding your request that we
let the captain of _Mae Lee_ miss a few payments. You must be
kidding. Sincerely, VP Amicoau, Rou San Finance Inc."

Do the port officials make the payments themselves? This irregularity
investigation just cost several hundred thousand credits or more.
Unless the port officials get to seize the ship if the papers are wrong,
I don't see this happening - if they do, I could see some system
governments willing to gamble, depending on how many irregularities
turned out to be innocent and how many got them a ship.

Since a stolen ship will usually go to the rightful owner, I don't see
the government getting to seize and keep/sell the ship. An otherwise
legitimate ship using a faked transponder - is that a serious enough
offense, in and of itself, for the ship to be seized?

If the captain of _Mae Lee_ is stuck with the payments on his ship
while his ship is in impound, chances are he's going to lose her.
If your planet's government gets a reputation for red tape that costs
people their starships, they will stop coming - especially if your planet
is just another nothing-special world that usually only sees independent
traders. 

If you're on a low-traffic trace, it's quite possible that all the other free
trader captains on that trace will know what you did to _Mae Lee_.
They're an independent-minded lot, certainly, but that doesn't mean
they won't decide your world deserves to lose all off-planet trade for
a year or so. This happens to a planet once, it may never (unless
crimes by false-registered ships becomes a problem) give anyone
trouble about their transponders again.

Big companies should never see this problem. Their ships are almost
always along or near the major communication routes, and they
probably have an agent on each world they visit with enough pull
to smooth over any such irregularities.

People who are playing tricks with transponders should, of course,
stay away from major communication routes.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #840
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 841



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Piracy!
Re: Future computing
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #839
Stutterwarp in Traveller
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Ship displacement
Re: Traveller Text Adventures
Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..
RE: Traveller Text Adventure
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Transponders
Re: Piracy!
1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #839
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Gurps Traveller
Re: Piracy!
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
re: Transponders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:59:46 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Piracy!

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote (regarding leeway with life support costs):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Trouble with that is that free traders scrabbling for their next bank
payment could IMO be almost as desperate as pirates ("Well, boys, we have
a choice: Either we eat this week or we keep the ship. What'll it be?")
If you allow pirates to get away with this, you really ought to allow
PCs to get away with it too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I let PC's get away with both this and field maintenance. They pay a
price for it, though - no carrying of paying passengers when using
minimal (abysmal) life support, not to mention having to put up with
a ship that smells like six people and a tree rat. <g> Not to mention
that if they get boarded by a customs patrol, they'll get lots of extra
looks and suspicion because, quite simply, it will look like a pirate
ship. Ever see a PC Traveller group that was comfortable with more
attention from the authorities?  

As for field maintenance, they'll almost certainly fail any safety inspection
(which could happen at any class A or B starport, and will happen
if they go in for legitimate annual maintenance). This will impound their
ship until it is repaired up to spec - taking more time and money, by
quite a bit, than they saved by doing it themselves.

Not to mention the occaisional GM-imposed equipment failures caused
by not following the guidelines in the Owner's manual...<g>

Hans again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Vargr Corsairs have the right idea for proper pirating, by the way.
>Find an area of many squabbling interstellar states, hire out as
>a starmerc until you have the money and resources to hit the local
>governments up for protection money.

Watch the first step, it's a doozy. Getting enough strength together to
blackmail the local governments will take some doing unless they are
_very_ small.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Finding small governments is no problem, for the Vargr anyway. You can
have an apartment building with six or seven governments in it. <g>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:11:18 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Future computing

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Future computing

>Besides, when your squad-mate with the heavy support weapon goes 
>down, you want to be able to pick it up yourself, and drive on with 
>the airborne mission....
>

If you are linked to your armor, the DNA/signature system is not a 
problem.  Same with members of your squad....  Key them into the memory 
chip built into all Squad Support Weapons.

Could also have an override device which allows certain armorers, NCOs 
or officers to reset the weapon to new users...  Could be linked to a 
self-destruct or self-inoperable command for the weapon, only resetable 
by a unit level armorer...
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:31:55 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> > > Di you know that Nasa's sending up a new probe called Deep Space 1
that
> > > is equipped with an unproven *Ion* drive? Powered by an unproven solar
> > > engine. And guided by an unproven Super intelligent Navigation
Computer.
> > > I just thought you' like to know. This is one of the coolest things
> > > sience Pathfinder! *Ion* Drive! Wow!
> 
> Yeah, I saw that on CNN tonite.  No specs on the specific impulse or
> guestimated thrust of that puppy, either.  Anybody know where you can cop
> specs on it?  > 

Although I won't repeat the info Tommy posted, you can
also get a live video feed from NASA's probe assembly 
room at the following URL:

http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/index.html

Hehheh. First time I heard of an ion drive was on Star
Trek. I can still remember Scotty saying something
like "Ion drive? They could teach us a thing or two."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:23:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

Just for grins and giggles I went to the site to get some specs on this
probe.  Looks very cool!
Using the specs, I tried to see just how fast this guy can go. Mind you
this is averaged data:


**\\WARNING -- GEARHEADEDNESS ALERT!!!//**

Mass: about 500kg (0.5tonnes)
Thrust: about 50mN on the average, with a range between 100 to 20 mN

I hope I got my summs right!  Here it goes...

50mN = 0.00005 Thrust tons (kN)
0.00005Tth/0.5tonnes = 0.0001 G

Hmmm, one ten-thousandth of a G,  pretty slow in my book.  But then again,
the advantage is that it can sustain that acceleration constantly for a
longer duration than that of a rocket.

So, anyone want to figure out some new FF&S rules so we can slap these
babies on our TL-8 Freighters?

I'll start the ball rolling with these facts:
it produces 92mN using 2.3kw of power and 20mN using 0.5kw of power
this factors to 40mN per kw.

It also uses 110kg of liquid gasses for reaction mass. 28kg of hydrazine
and 82kg of xenon.  Duration and fuel consumption are not mentioned.

There does not seem to be any data on what the engine alone masses or
volumes as, but I'll keep looking!


\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:42:46 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #839

     Hi.  Don't mean to sound slow, but what is T5?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:50:14 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Stutterwarp in Traveller

The maximum range of stutterwarp drives as described in the 2300 rules is 7.7 light years.  Since one parsec equals 3.26 light-years and 6.72 light years equals two parsecs, the maximum distance a stutterwarp ship can go without discharging is two and a third parsecs (just over Jump 2).  This maximum distance is completely separate from how quickly you traverse the 7.7 light years (which is what your numbers were referring to).
Therefore, I think a stutterwarp would be an interesting variation in a Traveller universe for tramp type ships to wander around on the Mains, but would not be especially useful in going across the rifts (where Jump 6 is just barely enough in some places).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:51:34 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Woops!  I clicked "Reply to Author" and expected it to go to the author's
personal e-mail.  My apologies to sending this to the list.

Dan


- -----Original Message-----
From: Dan Eveland <develand@mindspring.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)


>>I'd just like to say as a member of a minority that recieves the same sort
>>of threats and hate that is written into PI, that the end result of that
(a
>>universe where psionics are hunted down and killed), makes ever more wary
>>of the real-world haters.  Great job all around.
>>
>
>What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an
employed
>white male.  That's no minority.
>
>Just curious because I read your stuff a lot and have not read anything to
>make this statement make sense to me.
>
>Dan
>
>>
>>--
>>
>>+---------------------------------------------+
>>| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
>>|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
>>+---------------------------------------------+
>>| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
>>|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
>>+---------------------------------------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Ship displacement

Mike Schade writes:
> I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would have
> to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is sending out
> a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 2
> million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!
> 
> 
Depends on your requirements.  Steerage passage (per World Tamer's Handbook) is
2 people per ton of cargo space, and this is by far the cheapest way to
transport a huge number of people.  However, that density is probably subject
to riot conditions, and virtually guaranteed if the trip takes more than one
jump.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventures

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> At 16:04 22/09/98 +0200, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> >Mertactor is supposed to have a gravity of 0.82
> >due to a very high density (3.28 Earth normal).
> 
> This would give it a density only slightly lower than pure Tungsten or
> Uranium. Does anyone know if it's possible for U238 to become critcal in
> planet sized masses? BOOMMMMM!!!!

Heh.  No, U238 is incapable of going critical.  However, I suspect that
unrefined uranium contains enough U235 that a planet-sized mass would be
supercritical.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:49:03 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: About low hydrosphere worlds..

>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> asks,
>
>>>    Been watching this Earth Story miniseries...[snip]
>Look for a recent book on the solar system, or wander the web for planet
>data, and you'll find all sorts of weird locales for your scenarios.

This seems like a good place to plug the book "World Building".

From Amazon.com;

World-Building (Science Fiction Writing Series)
Written By Stephen L. Gillett,
Edited By Ben Bova
List Price: $16.99
Amazon.com Price: $11.89
Writers Digest Books; ISBN: 0898797071

It is a great source for "I didn't know that!" type facts or speculations
about things like the Calcium Carbonate cycle, tidal effects, and alternate
atmosphere types.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:50:10 -0400
From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Text Adventure

Please repost the web address of this
Traveller Text Adventures.

Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:42:21 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:47:46 -0500
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>> You can assume that they use metric, but that is hardly the only viable
>> assumption.  The odds are good that the Imperium uses a system of
>> measurement that is neither metric or English and it makes sense
>> to, when you translate dialog to the English language, to translate
>> the measurements to whatever system ones players are most confortable
>> with.

>OTOH, I would expect that the system used in the 3I is a decimal-based
>one, as humaniti is geared toward base-10 number systems.  Using metric,
>the decimal-based system used throughout late-20th century Terra
>(_including_ the US, or at least the US armed forces), makes more sense,
>in game terms, than either inventing a new measurement system, or using
>feet, inches, pounds, etc.

Well, this is an assumption.  I can easily see the Vilani having
a non-decimal system.

Also, one can take the approach that the Imperium is using some
decimal and system and when you translate it for game play
(like you translate from from Galanglic to English) you choose
a decimal system, but one might also decide to translate to the
system of measurement that most are familiar with.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:51:25 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:47:19 -0400
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>The odds are good that the Imperium uses a system of
>>measurement that is neither metric or English and it makes sense
>>to, when you translate dialog to the English language, to translate
>>the measurements to whatever system ones players are most confortable
>>with.

>Exactly my point.  And I'm not comfortable with American units.

Which I have no arguement with.  It shouldn't be much trouble
to keep using them.  I used metric in my GURPS Traveller universe
and found the issue surrounding do so to be minor as make the amount
to do about it being expressed here suprising.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:48:22 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:31:28 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>An assumption at best.  The rule of man was so superficial that I
>>don't see trying to impose how the common people measure and
>>package.

>Actually, the Rule of Man lasted about 400 years more than enough time to
>metricate even the Vilani :*> But they didn't have to metricate the entire
>Ziru
>Sirka just the 17 or so worlds that became the Sylean Federation.

This is much like if the US suddenly ruled the entire world.  Would
everyone switch from metric to English units?  I doubt it.

Even if so, you then have the Long night and standards will drift
with each region developing it's own version of the standard, reverting
to an old standard, or adopting new ones.

I don't find it impossible that the Imperium uses metric.  I do think
it is _far_ from certain.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:06:49 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponders

>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:07:08 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>That may be true (it depends a lot on what assumptions you make about traffic
>to off-the-X-boat routes), but how many ships travel systematically in one
>direction off the X-boat routes?

Well, almost every ship that been purchased is going to moving
to where it will be used, probably trading along the say.  Remember,
it only takes a few ships for this to be common enough for it to
be a possible explination.

It also raises the issue of how controlling a society we see the
Imperium.  We are talking about more required identification than
the US uses today, in a society with fast communciation.  However,
it is still true that records aren't always timely (I couldn't call
some friends last week because directory assistance didn't have
their number weeks after the phone had been activated).  In the
Imperium, with limited communications, the task of moving transponder
codes, and all the other data of a similar nature that one would then
assume the keep, to every system in a timely manner is daunting.
That is why all these transponders strike me as similar to the
claimed "America in space" sydrome (except here it is modern western
society in space).  We take fast communication for granted and
don't realize what a different world it would be otherwise.

>Furthermore, while you are travelling at jump-2 away from the X-boat routes,
>the X-boats are travelling at jump-4 along them. Which means that pretty soon
>you reach systems that have heard of you from the other direction. So when
>you claim to be the "Driven Snow", eight weeks out of Regina, System Control
>will be able to see that no "Driven Snow" left Regina on the date claimed.

So you claim to be more recently out.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:08:14 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Piracy!

You will all note that I have _not_ gotten sucked into the piracy
debate again :-).

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:50:22 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: 1,000,000 Colonists

     Someone wrote asking about the size of ship needed to move 1,000,000
colonists.  He/She did not give any information other than it was at high
tech level.  I have built a colony ship at TL15 that I think fits his
requirements.  I have purposely built it overly large so that it would be
able to carry all the items needed in a new colony project.

Displacement: 1000000 tons         Hull Armor: 200
Length: 824.26 meters              Volume: 14000000 m3
Price: MCr 367266.3           Target Size: G
Configuration: Streamlined Box           Tech Level: 15
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 4213110.6 / 3791757.5

Engineering Data
Power Plant: 679300 MW Fusion Power PLant, 1 year duration (67930 m3 fuel)
Jump Performance: 4 (3500000 m3 fuel)
G-Rating: 1G HEPlaR (500000 MW/G), High-Efficiency CG Lifter (100000 MW)
G-Turns: 20 (J3: 34; J2: 48; J1: 62; 76 using all jump fuel), 62500 m3 fuel
each
Maint: 152696

Electronics
Computer: TL-15 Fiber-optic computer (1.1 MW), 3xTL-15 Standard computer
(0.55 MW)
Commo: Maser (1000 AU; 0.6 MW), Radio (1hex; 1 MW)
Avionics: None  (Lets be real folks)
Sensors: PEMS (7 hex; 0.25 MW)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Bridge with 610 bridge workstations, 3342 normal workstations,
Standard Automation

Armament
Offensive: None
Defensive: None
Master Fire Directors: None

Accommodations
Life Support: Extended (13963439 m3 supported volume; 2792.688 MW),
Artifical Grav/CG (69817.195 MW)
Crew: 4402 (12xManeuver, 3342xEngineer, 237xMaintenance, 156xSteward,
37xMedic, 598xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 2485xSmall Stateroom (0.5kW), 20xLow Berth (1 kW)
Passengers: 79xHigh
Passenger Accommodations: 79xLarge Stateroom (1 kW)
Other Facilities: 167xElectronics Shop (0.6 MW), 20xMachine Shop (1 MW),
20xLaboratory (0.8 MW),
                                36xSick Bay (0.8 MW), 250000xEmergency Low
Berth (2 kW)
Cargo: 364000 m3 (26000 tons), 1040 Large Hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 6x95-ton spacious hangar, 7x50-ton
minimal hangar
Air locks: 1000

Notes
Total Fuel Tankage: 4817930 m3 (344137.9 tons)
Fuel scoops (1% of ship surface), fills tanks in 8.6 hours
Fuel purification machinery (5000 MW), 28.9 hours to refine 4817930 m3
9.2 MW power surplus

     As you will note the ship is very much built oversized.  This allowed
for the 26,000-tons of cargo, more than enough to contain structures and
machinery for the new colony.  The jump drive is over sized as well to
allow colonies to be build a significant distance away.  The ship also has
the facilities to build most anything the colony need in the way of small
equipment, as well as the laboratory space to deal with any problems your
world may throw at the new colonists.  A 925,000-ton hull is the smallest I
was able to get 250,000 low berth pods into, and that required removing all
the cargo and most of the other add-ons I've included here.  Enjoy.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:30:13 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

At 07:56 AM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:

>What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an employed
>white male.  That's no minority.

I'm bisexual.  *Everybody* thinks we're perverted.

The effect is similar, since both psionics and people of non-standard
orientation are invisible.  Our status isn't evident unless we tell you
about it, or try to excercise our rights.  I've had to sit through some of
the most rabid anti-gay rhetoric in silence, because speaking up would have
lead to violence.  Psionic people would face a similar situation.

For a comparison of the styles, and a look at how deeply this hatred runs,
go to:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/    

I swear, that's the URL.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|  Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net  |
|       http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|--------------------------------------------|
| "Oscar Wilde only wishes he was this gay!" |
|                          -Mike, MST3K      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:26:19 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #839

At 08:42 AM 9/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>     Hi.  Don't mean to sound slow, but what is T5?

The new edition of Traveller Marc is working on as we speak.  A fixed
edition of T4.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:37:16 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

At 11:50 AM 9/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>     Someone wrote asking about the size of ship needed to move 1,000,000
>colonists.  He/She did not give any information other than it was at high
>tech level.  I have built a colony ship at TL15 that I think fits his
>requirements.  I have purposely built it overly large so that it would be
>able to carry all the items needed in a new colony project.


Instead of the ship that was listed, take a look at David Drake's novel,
_Red_Liners_.  They colony ship they used was basicly a one-way disposable
structure that was intended to be the initial housing for the colony when
it arrived at its destination.  They carried cargo as well, but they were
built for one trip, or in the case of the Traveller Universe, several
jumps, and then landing on the destination world.

In this case, I would see the craft being in the 10Mt. range with the crew
actually being part of the colonization group.  This would allow upkeep on
the ship and offer a skilled pool of labor from the outset.

Another possibility is that of something similar to the SDB/Jump Shuttle
arrangement ot Battle Tender/Battle Rider setup where the actual payload
for the colony is nothing more than an in-system craft and the J-Drives are
based on a reusable tender.  Extrapolating this a bit farther, you could
then have the tender make round trips to several colonies carrying
supplies, additional colonists, news, and acting as a neutral party to
resolve disputes.  This could in the long term actually make such a craft
profitable.  After all, when the 3I retires those Battle Tenders they have
to go somewhere, right?

Just a few random ideas, YMMV.

Later!

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:43:56 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: Gurps Traveller

Well, it's the 23rd; any reviews of the new Gurps: Traveller?


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:12:05 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Piracy!

>You will all note that I have _not_ gotten sucked into the piracy
>debate again :-).


Nor I!  (Although it has taken a 4 point restraint system...)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:42:02 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

William Prankard wrote:

> Just for grins and giggles I went to the site to get some specs on this
> probe.  Looks very cool!
> Using the specs, I tried to see just how fast this guy can go. Mind you
> this is averaged data:
>
> **\\WARNING -- GEARHEADEDNESS ALERT!!!//**
>
> Mass: about 500kg (0.5tonnes)
> Thrust: about 50mN on the average, with a range between 100 to 20 mN
>
> I hope I got my summs right!  Here it goes...
>
> 50mN = 0.00005 Thrust tons (kN)
> 0.00005Tth/0.5tonnes = 0.0001 G
>
> Hmmm, one ten-thousandth of a G,  pretty slow in my book.  But then again,
> the advantage is that it can sustain that acceleration constantly for a
> longer duration than that of a rocket.
>
> So, anyone want to figure out some new FF&S rules so we can slap these
> babies on our TL-8 Freighters?

Ion engines are already listed in the TNE FFS.  You can get about 0.0025 m/s/s
acceleration out of them assuming you have no payload, i.e. just an engine and
power plant. (plus a year's fuel).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:38:07 PDT
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: Transponders

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Furthermore, while you are travelling at jump-2 away from the X-boat 
>routes, the X-boats are travelling at jump-4 along them. Which means 
>that pretty soon you reach systems that have heard of you from the 
>other direction. So when you claim to be the "Driven Snow", eight 
>weeks out of Regina, System Control will be able to see that no 
>"Driven Snow" left Regina on the date claimed. 
>
>>In any case, if you have _any_ ships that get ahead, that means that a 
>>ship can always claim to be one of those. 
>
>Yes, but can it prove it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>This is something I think the planetary authorities will have to 
>prove, IMO. Here is my reasoning:
>
>A ship comes into port claiming to be _Mae Lee_, a rebuild hull under
>new registry from a backwater planet five or six parsecs away.
>Starport control has never heard of _Mae Lee_ before, and says
>"prove that what you say is true". The captain asks, "How?"

<SNIP of discussion of payments while in impundment>

I would say that when the local official becomes suspicious he sends a 
report to the subsector administration and/or Regina explaining the 
situation. He would also send the hull number, ID-number of crew, photos 
etc.. He would not impund them but would of course try to detain them by 
checking the ship for faulty papers, neglected maintanance (your not 
leaving my yard with a containment bottle that looks like that mister!) 
and likewise. If the ship turns up clean then his work is for nothing 
but if it isn't then the hunt begins (*) with X-boat J-4 couriers (spies 
and pirates get chased by J-6 and the IN) bringing the warrant to all 
starports and navies in the Imperium making it hard for the ship to 
operate. 

(*) That little detail would best be solved by the 400-year Viliani old 
detective agency "The Jinkerton Detectives" (PC:s of course).<g>

Hmmm -- what if the PC:s end up (unknowingly) chasing Zodhani spies 
fleeing the Imperium. worth thinking about...

>People who are playing tricks with transponders should, of course, 
>stay away from major communication routes.

Or be put out of business pretty fast (assuming that playing with 
transpoders is a somewhat serious crime or that the "business" is).

This metod has the advantage of beeing cheap, easy, pretty efficient 
(none gets away in the long run), doesn't hinder trade and (important 
for roleplaying) isn't impossible to fool (for awhile) if you run fast 
enough.

The stage is set for a multisector car-chase...

Patrik Holmstrm

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #841
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 23 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 842



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

GURPS Traveller
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists (longish)
Re: Pronounciation
Re: Definitions
Traveller Full Thrust was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828
Re: T4 Miner career
Re: Space Combat and Pizza (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828)
re: BITS 101 Religions - A review (of sorts)
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Piracy!
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Transponders
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:21:51 -0400
From: "Shade" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller

Picked it up hot and waiting at my FLGS yesterday evening.

Have just perused it and its a wonderfully put together book.  Lots of
library data for players.... and the art is great.

Thank God for Tom Peters!

Shade




Just remember:  The reason Santa is so jolly is
because he knows where all the bad girls live.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:29:25 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

Here's my review:

None of the game stores around here will have it for another week!  I'm so
pissed.

Dan


- -----Original Message-----
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
To: traveller-digest@MPGN.COM <traveller-digest@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 3:50 PM
Subject: Gurps Traveller


>Well, it's the 23rd; any reviews of the new Gurps: Traveller?
>
>
>DonM.
>--
>==========================================================================
>= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
>= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
>= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
>= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
>= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 =
>==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:29:22 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists (longish)

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      Someone wrote asking about the size of ship needed to move 1,000,000
> colonists.  He/She did not give any information other than it was at high
> tech level.  I have built a colony ship at TL15 that I think fits his
> requirements.  I have purposely built it overly large so that it would be
> able to carry all the items needed in a new colony project.
> 
<<snips description of 1,000,000 Td ship that relies on 250,000
emergency low berths to move the requisite number of colonists>>

A couple of problems here.  First, you _seriously_ underestimated the
number of medical personnel one would need to revive that many low
passengers.  At one medic/doctor per 20 low passengers (FF&S v2, pg.
77), you need 50,000 medical personnel to tend to reviving the low
passengers, with 1 sickbay/2 medical crew.  Since each sickbay requires
8 Td (FF&S v2 Table 8), your sickbay space alone takes 200,000 Td (not
to mention the accomodations for 50,000 medical personnel).

Further, as FF&S v2 states on page 78:

	The emergency low berth sacrifices careful preparation for quick
hibernation.  Capable of holding four normal humans, it can drop its
occupants into hibernation in less than sixty seconds, fully clothed and
without any preparation.  The down side is that the revival process is
extremely tricky and requires careful monitoring by skilled personnel. 
They are only used in life-or-death situations, when a ship is rendered
otherwise uninhabitable.

Given the above, you would likely need even more medics and sickbays,
but we'll be generous and assume that you cna get by with the standard
number.

I can see a totalitarian dictatorship using emergency low berths as
colonist transports, only because it would take armed force to get
people to ship that way.

If you need a minimum sized ship, you're better off assuming that the
unwashed masses hot-cot in bunks or staterooms (three shifts).  It's
nearly as space effective (especially if given meager rations), and,
though deeply unpleasant, _much_ safer for the passengers.  It also
requires far fewer medical personnel (and thus far fewer sickbays).

Can you say "steerage"?  I thought you could.

If I were building a single ship for 1,000,000 colonists, I'd spring for
double- occupancy small staterooms, and go with a ship of somewhere
around 1,500,000-2,000,000 Td.  (I'll have to work one out.)  Frankly,
though, given jump drive technology and durable ships, I'd build several
smaller colony ships, and shuttle colonists over a period of months to
the new world.  That gives you even better space utilization (as each
bunk or stateroom can be used more than once), better crew utilization
(one medic can serve for several flights, each time supporting 120 awake
middle/steerage passengers), and gives you a more economically useful
fleet of ships at the end of the exercise.  Also, the first wave of
colonists can be set to work building infrastructure, both for
themselves and for succeeding waves.

> 
> Leo

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:24:42 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Pronounciation

Jason Anderson <midnight@vision.net.au> wrote:

>>I had no real choice here: American GURPS uses Imperial units (lbs, feet,
>>etc). Overseas translations use metric.
><plant tongue in cheek>
>So, is there any chance GURPS Traveller will be translated to English?
></plant tongue in cheek>
>
>=)

All the BITS Traveller products are edited into English, not American ;-)

That's why 101 Religions took quite a while to edit - my spelling checker
allows both American and English ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:34:39 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Definitions

"Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>OK Count here are a few that I have just seen. IMO, IIRC, IMTU, and
>many many more.

My favourite is CATNIP.

"Cheapest Available Technology Not Involving Prosecution"

I *used* to work in the nuclear industry which was kind of hot on TLAs etc,
and ended up with a number which weren't serious. Or at least you hoped
they weren't.

Dom (still catching up, currently at TML -4 Days)

PS TLA = three letter abbreviation

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:42:23 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Traveller Full Thrust was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828

 dberry@hooked.net wrote:

>Having said that, I'd love to have Andy put BL/BR stats into his
>spreadsheets.  Those remain my second and thrid favorite space combat
>games, righ behind Full Thrust.

Have you seen the Fleets book yet (new design system, loads of ships and
the B5 sourced vector movement rules).

We playtested a Traveller Full Thrust conversion at Gen Con UK. It worked
quite well - a AHL cruiser with 4 PF Sloans against 3 Zho 15kT Battle
Riders and 6 destroyers (equal to the Midu A...... class). The outcome was
interesting....

Dom (TML -3D now)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:45:00 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Miner career

 "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se> wrote:

>What is a 'Seeker' ?

A Type S Scout modified for Mining.

Dom (TML -3)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:02:26 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Space Combat and Pizza (was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #828)

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:

>As long as Andy is taking pizza requests I'd like a large vegetarian
>pizza w/ extra mushrooms, please.

Wow! I thought the macro's in Excel 97 had changed but they make *pizza*
too, now!?

Dom (TML -3)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:49:09 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: BITS 101 Religions - A review (of sorts)

Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com> wrote:

>I thought it well worth the price - including postage, about $8.50 (4.95
>sterling plus postage) - and encourage everybody to buy a copy, thereby
>assuring the retirement, in luxury, of Andy Lilly and his BITS cohorts.

!!!!!!! I wish....... ;-)

Thanks for the review!

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:12:45 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

 steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:

>SD Mooney wrote:
>> That may be the case - have a look in the book when your author's copy
>> arrives - the RCCS is nestling there, right next to the picture of... could
>> it be the Azhanti Inquistion?
>
>But no one expects [GAK] . . . .

No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition, our two main weapons are,...... <I
can't do this any more..>

;-)

Dom (T-2)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:54:17 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

>Besides, I'd much rather have the rugby players than the soccer fans...

Hmm. Usually you only have to worry about a minority of football (soccer)
fans, but rugby players? You have to worry about the lot of them ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:50:33 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Quick thoughts on asteroid mining

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> wrote:

>I dont believe that Seekers (a refitted type S scout) would be the vessel
>of choice for belters.

CJ Cherryh's "Heavy Time" has some interesting thoughts on Asteroid mining....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:42:48 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841

Joseph
     The figure I put forth are those from FF&S and have no limitation as
listed.  In the section on drives it even lists the need to discharge as an
optional rule to slow your PC's down.  There is no rule in that supplement
(i.e. for TNE) that lists a maximum number of parsecs you may travel before
discharging.  In point of fact our GM ruled that our R&D department had not
yet been able to get the thing to work past  3 parsecs (His way of limiting
our movements) and in the equation for efficiency the TL is removed
increasing the amount of power we have to supply by a very large percent
(200% or better, another way to slow us down.).  Still Stutterwarp would be
much more effective even with the limitations you mentioned from 2300.  The
efficiency is the number of parsecs per day, if yours is 2 then every 64
hour you can travel 2 parsecs, take a look at you nearest main and see how
fast your ship could travel from one end to the other.  Add a Jump 3 drive
(I know it reduces the amount of cargo) and now your ship can move between
mains.  There are no rules regarding the number of drive types you can
include in your ship other than those of space and money.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:44:35 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

On 22 Sep 98, at 12:14, dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 07:29 PM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm wrote:
> >
> >> Is it worth purchasing? What does it contain?
> >
> >I think so.  It is one of the better IG publications.
> 
> >Psionics & Society (13 pp)
> >  Pro and Anti Psionic movements, etc.
> 
> These are written from a Milieu:0 perspective.  Adjusting the rules as
> written to a more standard anti-psi Imperial campaign would require some work.

Time for a kibbutz by a co-author.

The bulk of this book was co-authored by Joe Walsh and myself.
I wrote the rules section, and it was used for much of the follow on 
work as well.

When we wrote PI, and in particular when I wrote the section on 
detailing institutes, and detailing reactions, I had an eye to the 
future when writing for other Milieu books might be necessary.  In 
other words, with a few modifications, it can really be adapted fairly 
easily along the timeline.

We wrote Milieu 0's view on psionics to be akin to the Imperium's 
view on the internal politics of member worlds.  Each world is going 
to have its own view of psionics.  Some will be xenophobic enough 
about it to make the later eras of the Imperium look moderate by 
comparison.  Others will be pro-psionics to the point that they may 
integrate it *further* into the political structure of the world than the 
Zhodani do (i.e. a ruling class which is not at all hereditary, but 
based upon psionic ability...even the Zhodani allow the idea of 
hereditary titles, as written in CT).  Other worlds (most worlds) will 
be somewhere in the middle, not strongly pro- or anti-psionic, but 
no strong unified opinion either way.

We basically saw this as being a reasonable state of being for the 
Imperium on the subject for the first few hundred years of the 
Imperium.

The catalyst to the change, of course, would be the Zhodani.  The 
Frontier Wars, and the fact that the Zhodani are a very alien human 
society would probably galvanize public opinion against the Zhos, 
and by extension, psionics. Opinion would gradually harden 
against psionics until it reached its peak during the suppressions.

A few modifiers to the UWP extension that determines whether a 
world is pro- or anti-psionics would be all that would be necessary.  
Institutes of course would tend to be smaller, and obviously will be 
more covert.

I may take a few minutes next week, and make an effort to come 
up with the modifications we envisioned for the PI rules to reflect 
this info.  

> I'd just like to say as a member of a minority that recieves the same sort
> of threats and hate that is written into PI, that the end result of that (a
> universe where psionics are hunted down and killed), makes ever more wary
> of the real-world haters.  Great job all around.

Doug refers specifically to the Anti-Psionics point of view.  One of 
the things I wasted a lot of time on studying in my misspent youth 
was propaganda, especially that of Nazi Germany.

Basically, I tried to write the piece from the point of view of a 
flaming fringe group that would react to psionics in the same 
manner as the Nazis did to Jews, or as you see in the extreme 
cases on both sides of the abortion debate, or gun control, or 
animal rights, or any other emotionally charged topic.

In retrospect, I think I went too far.  I think it loses some of its 
effectiveness by not doing good enough of a job of being persuasive 
to a reasonable person.  It certainly does make the extreme anti-
psionics camp look scary, which was the goal.

If I may say so, PI was probably the best project I had the good 
fortune to work on for IG. It embodied what I feel a good 
supplement should be, some rules, but mainly lots of setting 
material.  I thought it was great because unlike a lot of things, it 
gave rules, but then took the rules, and used them to advance the 
background.

I have to say of the things I worked on, it is the best thing we did, 
and the one I'm most proud of.

Now if only IG had paid me more than 10 cents on the dollar for the 
work, I'd have been in heaven.  <G>

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:47:35 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Piracy!

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>You will all note that I have _not_ gotten sucked into the piracy
>debate again :-).

And I was feeling kind of nostalgic and looking forward to the re-runs. ;-)

Hans, you'll have to call it all off. David's not playing ;-)

Dom (meant in jest)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:56:03 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841

     In reply to the numerous posts on Transponders, there is of couser a
very simple way to solve your pirates problems in this regards.  They just
remove the transponder unit from a ship they have taken (not in any shape
to fly, OOPS) and install it in there own ship.  They hit the system at 100
diameters play the false beacon and then look for a ship to hit.  The
system will of course record the beacon and the actions that the owners of
that beacon took, but hey you're just going to use another beacon next week
why worry about the cops.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:03:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Dan Eveland wrote:

> >I'd just like to say as a member of a minority that recieves the same sort
> >of threats and hate that is written into PI  [snip]
> 
> What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an employed
> white male.  That's no minority.

Oh come now. He could be gay. He could be jewish. He could be a Bill
Clinton supporter.  ;)

Ben

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:10:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Transponders

	I have some questions about how transponders might work.  Do they
have their own transmitter, or do they use one of the ship's regular commo
channels?  Further, what kind of transmitter would be appropriate for a
transponder? 
	Omnidirectional radios capable of reliably reaching a world
from the 100d limit are rather expensive and power hungry.  It might make
more sense for transponders to work more like an IFF system.  The Port
Authority or another ship could send a signal to the target ship which
would activate a tight-beam response from the transponder containing
whatever info is considered relevant IYTU.  The transponder would then 
keep the querying ship or port updated about changes in its position and 
course.  
	Worlds with good ports would have navigation satellites that would
broadcast all the transponder info for ships in the vicinity.  If a ship
was closer to another ship than the nav-sat, it could query the other ship
directly.  Crummy ports (D or E) would simply require that ships keep
their transponders "on" (responsive to queries from other ships) and
remain aware of their surroundings to avoid problems. 
	Comments?

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:08:26 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841

**WARNING**  Piracy debunking follows!  **WARNING**

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      In reply to the numerous posts on Transponders, there is of couser a
> very simple way to solve your pirates problems in this regards.  They just
> remove the transponder unit from a ship they have taken (not in any shape
> to fly, OOPS) and install it in there own ship.  They hit the system at 100
> diameters play the false beacon and then look for a ship to hit.  The
> system will of course record the beacon and the actions that the owners of
> that beacon took, but hey you're just going to use another beacon next week
> why worry about the cops.
> 
> Leo

You make a couple of assumptions here with which I'm uncomfortable. 
First, you assume that the transponder doesn't include information about
the type of ship (size, power signature, etc.) on which it's mounted. 
Either that, or you assume that said pirates are consistently taking as
prizes ships of similar configuration to their own.  Were I an official
with my world's Space Traffic Control agency, I would be _exceedingly_
suspicious of a ship that claimed to be a Type A Free Trader, yet had
the signature of a Type C Mercenary Cruiser.

Second, you assume that, in the time it takes to dismount a transponder
from one ship (assuming that, in crippling the prey, the pirate ship
didn't damage or destroy the transponder), and mounting it in a second
ship, no word of the first ship's demise would reach any authorities.  I
would expect that, upon the unexplained disappearance of a ship, the
authorities would pass the word to nearby systems.  At very least, were
I a pirate, I would not want to assume otherwise.

Third, you assume that the pirates can jump back outsystem, having taken
a prize, but before a Space Traffic Control official, already made
suspicious by a transponder signal that doesn't correspond to the ship's
signature, can vector customs ships to the site.  Since most stock ships
only carry enough fuel for one jump of the ship's maximum capability,
the ability to retain enough fuel to jump out quickly means one of three
things:

	1.  You have remained close to the home of one of your previous targets
(by close, I mean close enough for word of your target's demise to have
possibly reached the world to which you jumped);

	2.  You have installed extra fuel tanks in your pirate ship's cargo
holds, thus reducing the amount of cargo that you can take from a prize
(and thus your profit as compared to your risk);

	3.  You are flying a ship of sufficiently high TL to be capable of high
jump numbers (5 or 6, which require TL 14 or 15, respectively).  This
gives two problems:

		a.  You still have lots of space taken up by jump fuel (the immutable
10% of ship's displacement per jump number); and

		b.  You have a greater likelihood of a mismatch between the
transponder's reporting of your ship's data and your actual signature.

Bottom line, using the transponder of a prize ship would probably lead
to your apprehension/destruction _faster_ than turning your own
transponder off would.  At least a ship with no running transponder
stands a chance of not being detected in time, while a ship with a
stolen transponder runs the risks that:

The authorities already have word that the target ship has disappeared;
and/or

The stolen transponder is broadcasting a ship's signature different from
that of the pirate ship; and/or

The authorities will vector customs ships to the site of the battle
before you can both dismount the new prize's transponder (and, of
course, cargo) and jump out.

Color me paranoid, but, unless I _knew_ that _none_ of these issues
would occur to my referee, I would steer clear of this idea.  (I've
played in RPGs where I could get away with similar things, and _did_,
but I don't _expect_ to do so.)

- -- 
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|JOLT|
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:38:26 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841

At 07:08 pm 9/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>**WARNING**  Piracy debunking follows!  **WARNING**
>
>Leo Hale wrote:
>> 
>>      In reply to the numerous posts on Transponders, there is of
couser a
>> very simple way to solve your pirates problems in this regards.
They just
>> remove the transponder unit from a ship they have taken (not in
any shape
>> to fly, OOPS) and install it in there own ship.  They hit the
system at 100
>> diameters play the false beacon and then look for a ship to hit.
The
>> system will of course record the beacon and the actions that the
owners of
>> that beacon took, but hey you're just going to use another beacon
next week
>> why worry about the cops.
>> 
>> Leo
>
>You make a couple of assumptions here with which I'm uncomfortable. 
>First, you assume that the transponder doesn't include information
about
>the type of ship (size, power signature, etc.) on which it's
mounted. 

	/* snip */

>Second, you assume that, in the time it takes to dismount a
transponder
>from one ship (assuming that, in crippling the prey, the pirate ship
>didn't damage or destroy the transponder), and mounting it in a
second
>ship, no word of the first ship's demise would reach any
authorities.  I

	/* snip */

>Third, you assume that the pirates can jump back outsystem, having
taken
>a prize, but before a Space Traffic Control official, already made
>suspicious by a transponder signal that doesn't correspond to the
ship's
>signature, can vector customs ships to the site.  Since most stock
ships


Fourth, you assume authorities are stupid enough to not bother with
tamperproof transponders which either (a) begin broadcasting to the
world "Hey, look at me! There's something wrong here" or (b)
self-destruct ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #842
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 843



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Ion Drives (was Re: NASA's New Probe)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841
Transponders (was re: Traveller Digest...)
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Transponders
Money (longish)
Re: Ion Drives (was Re: NASA's New Probe)
Re: firearms safeguards in the future
Re: Transponders
Re: Money (longish)
tax farming in Traveller?
HIWG CD-ROM update
How to run a 3I Ship Registry (was Transponders)
1x10^6 Colony Ship

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:49:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Ion Drives (was Re: NASA's New Probe)

An ion drive with an ISP of 3,000 seconds, that seems pretty low.  What's
the theoretical & or practical limit on ion drive ISP?  In FF&S2 the ion
drive listed there has an ISP (if I did my calculations correctly) of just
over 1 million.  Is this in keeping with current expectations?  Also,
what's the maxiumum thrust in kN/M3 you could get from one of those
things.  Is the 0.033 figure in FF&S2 accurate? 

Thanks-


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:18:59 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

On 23 Sep 98, at 16:03, Brannon Boren wrote:

> Oh come now. He could be gay. He could be jewish. He could be a Bill
> Clinton supporter.  ;)

Hmm.  Clinton's approval rating is 60%+ after Monday's release of 
the testimony according to 3 different polls.  60%+ doesn't define a 
minority in any sense of the word I know of.

Stu "The Pebble In The Political Shoe" Dollar

Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:30:59 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #841

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
<<snips condensation of my previous post>>
> 
> Fourth, you assume authorities are stupid enough to not bother with
> tamperproof transponders which either (a) begin broadcasting to the
> world "Hey, look at me! There's something wrong here" or (b)
> self-destruct ...
> -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
>     *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

I prefer the term "tamper-resistant", simply because _any_ security
system devised by humans can be defeated by humans, given sufficient
resources (including time).

Having made that minor quibble, it would seem that we are in basic
agreement that one cannot simply remove a transponder from one ship,
mount it on another, and expect to get away with the deception.  Unless,
of course, one happens to be blessed/cursed with a game referee that
would buy off on such a flawed plan.  (Having advanced beyond such
Velveeta-like behavior, I think of such players as cursed.  OTOH, it is
the nature of PCs to test the limits of the referee, and I can hardly
blame players for taking advantage of a referee's ignorance or
weakness....)

Just don't count on it in any game run by Traveller grognards.....

> 
>    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
>    much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
>       -- Thomas Jefferson

- -- 
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|JOLT|
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:28:08 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Transponders (was re: Traveller Digest...)

David J. Golden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Fourth, you assume authorities are stupid enough to not bother with
tamperproof transponders which either (a) begin broadcasting to the
world "Hey, look at me! There's something wrong here" or (b)
self-destruct ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Tamperproof". Interesting word. Kind of reminds me of another word...
"Unsinkable".  <Cut to exciting footage from _Titanic_>

<g>

Seriously, the nature of transponders is one of those major campaign
molding decisions by the referee. CT Canon mentions at least two
instances of private citizens having variable transponders
(a Fat Trader in _The Traveller Adventure_ and the example
Corsair in _Supp 4: Citizens of the Imperium_). DGP's
_Starship Operations Manual_ talks about transponders being
encased in "the same stuff they make battledress out of" - anything
you use to cut the case will also be strong enough to frag the
interior. Navy transponders are mentioned as being able to transmit
almost anything the signals chief wants them to, from full data
to "I'm an Imperial Navy Ship" to "I'm not a scout ship, I'm a
50,000tn battlecruiser. No, really, your 100dtn sensor image of
me must be some kind of malfunction..."

This points me to the idea that there is different gear on different
ships fulfilling the role of "transponder". The Third Imperium may
require every new ship and small craft built or operating within it's
borders to have a self-contained TL-15 transponder installed, with
a unique encrypted signature and the best tamperproofing money
can buy. Once you've built several million of these over several decades
and transported them several year's travel time across the Imperium,
the secret to making them and keeping them secure will no longer be a
secret.

I wonder - is a transponder upgrade part of the annual maintenance
procedure? So every year when you stop by a well-patrolled system,
your transponder signal will be just a little bit different? <g>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:48:49 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Date sent:      	Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:42:21 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>Well, this is an assumption.  I can easily see the Vilani having
>a non-decimal system.

They use a very decimal calendar, so I'd say its odd are fairly good that they 
use a decimal system of weights and measures.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:48:49 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Date sent:      	Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:48:22 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:31:28 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
><a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>>An assumption at best.  The rule of man was so superficial that I
>>>don't see trying to impose how the common people measure and
>>>package.

>>Actually, the Rule of Man lasted about 400 years more than enough time to
>>metricate even the Vilani :*> But they didn't have to metricate the entire
>>Ziru
>>Sirka just the 17 or so worlds that became the Sylean Federation.

>This is much like if the US suddenly ruled the entire world.  Would
>everyone switch from metric to English units?  I doubt it.

If the US wanted to effect the change it would happen. In the past few decades 
numerous countries have done exactly that. Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc 
have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease. Given the will 
on the part of the government the change is surprisingly easy and fast (around 
10 years). All it really takes is a concerted education campaign and changing 
all the "road signs" etc. NZ went metric in the early 70's and now the change is 
sufficently complete that people have a hard time comprehending the weight 
factor involved in a McDonalds quarter pounder. The common people use the 
units which are around them. Change the units and the people will change.

If the Terrans wanted to impose the metric system on the Vilani it would have 
been quite easy; and it would make a lot of sense for them to have done so. It 
not that the Vilani changed voluntarily, its that the Solomani imposed the 
change from above because it was a) easier for them and b) a simple and 
seemingly innocuous way of establishing the authority of the Rule of Man in a 
very concrete way (akin to the adoption of the Imperial calendar by the 3rd 
Imperium).

>Even if so, you then have the Long night and standards will drift
>with each region developing it's own version of the standard, reverting
>to an old standard, or adopting new ones.

Very true, which is why the metric system only has to survive in the 17 or so 
worlds that made up the Sylean Federation; again not too hard to believe.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:14:48 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >Furthermore, while you are travelling at jump-2 away from the X-boat
> >routes, the X-boats are travelling at jump-4 along them. Which means
> >that pretty soon you reach systems that have heard of you from the
> >other direction. So when you claim to be the "Driven Snow", eight
> >weeks out of Regina, System Control will be able to see that no
> >"Driven Snow" left Regina on the date claimed.
> >
> >>In any case, if you have _any_ ships that get ahead, that means that a
> >>ship can always claim to be one of those.
> >
> >Yes, but can it prove it?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >

I was under the impression that in order to get bank financing, you have to
provide a prospective trade route that you intend to use.  I'm pretty sure
that the bank would send out notices to those systems to expect the ship in
question.  If you're not on your appointed route, you need to provide proof
of ownership.  With no proof provided, the system could impound the vehicle
until the paper trail gets resolved.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:15:38 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Money (longish)

What do people use in their Traveller universes for money? Does
it exist in cash form in high tech societies? How do interstellar
travellers deal with electronic banking when they are travelling 
faster than the financial information needed to make such transactions?

I use some ideas I saw in White Dwarf magazine a long time ago
(when it was good, not just a house organ for Games Workshop)
involving hard to forge high-tech plastic coins, money chits and
plaques. The big black plaques are MCr1, the little white coins are
tenth-Cr (or less) up to Cr1, the chits go up to Cr100, larger plaques
go up from there. A well-secured attache case can carry
the purchase price of a starship, good the moment it is presented
at a shipyard with no wait while a bank two months away sends
approval. Better yet, people have something to steal when you
mug them...<g>

I also use Letters of Credit (an idea I got from the Knights Templar),
portable items of value like gems (an idea I got from SPI's wargame
_Freedom in the Galaxy_), and some credit cards.

Credit cards are most commonly used by the vast majority of people
who don't travel between the stars. They are also used by people who
don't travel far, or stay on the same routes (so their financial data
can keep up with them). The moment you get away from X-Boat routes,
your credit card becomes unreliable. A lower-tech world might not
be able to take it at all, and even the higher-tech startown 
establishment's reader might reject your card (not long enough on
planet, no previous recorded planetfalls, no records, etc). IMTU,
everyone carries cash. This may also be the reason, BTW, most
people seem to carry weapons as well...

An Example of high finance:

Ex-Merchant Captain Jed Furgall decides to buy a nice, new
Far Trader at Regina. He won the Monsterball Lottery Jackpot on Efate
last month, and he has a bank account in the First Bank of Efate
with MCr49 in it. Captain Furgall has no reputation as a swindler,
the news from Efate mentioned his newfound wealth, and he brought
a Letter of Credit from his bank on Efate to a bank (that knew the Efate
bank) on Regina. The Regina bank will extend him credit (which will
eventually be balanced by an electronic or even physical transfer
of wealth between the bank on Efate and the bank on Regina), he
can probably buy his starship today if one is sitting on the lot.

Many travellers wear rings, pendants and other small items of value
to use as a cash reserve. Those who travel frequently to primitive
planets often are quite encumbered by such trinkets, as they may
need to deal regularly with people who would rather barter than take
odd-looking pieces of plastic.

What does a fistful of credits look like IYTU?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:24 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ion Drives (was Re: NASA's New Probe)

John R. Snead wrote:

> An ion drive with an ISP of 3,000 seconds, that seems pretty low.  What's
> the theoretical & or practical limit on ion drive ISP?  In FF&S2 the ion
> drive listed there has an ISP (if I did my calculations correctly) of just
> over 1 million.  Is this in keeping with current expectations?  Also,
> what's the maxiumum thrust in kN/M3 you could get from one of those
> things.  Is the 0.033 figure in FF&S2 accurate?

TNE lists thrust at 0.003 kN per kL of drive.  But that .033 was brough up
before which leads me to believe there was a typo in one of the editions.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:19:27 -0500
From: eldwyn@juno.com
Subject: Re: firearms safeguards in the future

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:01:55 -0700 shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven
Hudson) writes:
>
>  Perhaps a finger-print reader on the pistol-grip (or retina scanner 
>on
>the integrated electronic sight? - eye control of many shoulderarm or 
>suit
>functions is quite practical in a no-hands situation as long as you've 
>got
>practice and steady nerves).
>
>        Steven Hudson
>
>

I remember some type of discovery channel show a while ago that talked of
modern-day safeguards. The talk concerned police officers' weapons that
became compromised (taken from the officer) and used to kill the officer
themselves. 
The solution I remember involved a simple IC (well, maybe not that
simple) that read code from a ring on the officer's finger, allowing the
gun to fire. Without contact with the ring (perhaps allowing for gloves,
of course), the weapon was dead. This was intended for a semi-automatic
hand gun, BTW.

The drawback is it only takes the ring to make the gun work, as opposed
to finger-print or retina scans. The plus side, it takes a lot more
effort to get that ring off of my finger (or finger off of my hand) if
you want to use my gun, than simply fighting me for the gun.

Although this may be possible at today's TL, I have not seen it in use. I
can't imagine it would take much more tech, merely consumer desire (or
legislation?!). 

IMTU: Law enforcement and many military units use these safeguards, while
personal weapons and *private companies* use a more convenient,
*untraceable* style.

MarioC
eldwyn@juno.com

- --Imagine Whirled Peas...


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:31:26 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

> appeared in some of the earliest Traveller material. Unforgable transponders
> are another matter. TNE claims that they are unforgable. Not only did I come
> up with a scheme for forging them as described in TNE (I did have to assume
> the existence of a corrupt official, mind you ;-), there are also earlier

Speak of this scheme.

> references to configurable transponders (in "The Traveller Adventure"). IMO
> tranponders can be forged. But it requires special equipment (Specifically,
> an extra, specially modified, transponder). You can't just reprogram your
> own transponder (at least, not without leaving telltale signs).

I don't have the Traveller Adventure to dissect it.  Can someone
summarize/paraphrase how exactly this configuation worked?  The SDG
transponders couldn't be reprogramed at all.  If the black box is broken, the
deyo chip (and it's control chip) are both turned into slag by a power surge. 

> Imperium-wide transponders are a canonical fact. But there is a disagreement
> on the list whether Imperium-wide ship lists are in use.

Imperium-wide ship lists would not work IMO.  Odds are a ship could get there
faster than normal information flows (the xboat network), especially for
worlds off the xboat routes.  It's surely possible (and even likely) the IN
(naval couriers) and the Iridium Throne (the TI/TJ network) and intellegence
agencies could and would get *their* lists at Jump 6 to their appropriate
stations but nothing like the "Bureau of Ship Services" would.  Anything that
public is going to stay on the xboat routes.

> >They wouldn't really work anyway.  The data would be unverfiable
> >because it is quite possible that the ship (and its transponder)
> >arrive before any message containing info you could check it
> >against.
> 
> It is possible, yes, but not "quite possible". That is, it would be quite
> rare for any civilian ship to outrun its latest registration. It would
> happen occasionally, but not, IMO, all that often. So those ships that did
> would stand out like sore thumbs. Whether the local system authorities would
> do something about it is a different matter.

It would be rare for any civilian ship to come a jump or two off the Xboat
route? Anything off the xboat route is probably more than just one or two
weeks/jumps behind the news.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:31:33 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Money (longish)

Walter Smith wrote:
> 
> What do people use in their Traveller universes for money? Does
> it exist in cash form in high tech societies? How do interstellar
> travellers deal with electronic banking when they are travelling
> faster than the financial information needed to make such transactions?
> 
> I use some ideas I saw in White Dwarf magazine a long time ago
> (when it was good, not just a house organ for Games Workshop)
> involving hard to forge high-tech plastic coins, money chits and
> plaques. The big black plaques are MCr1, the little white coins are
> tenth-Cr (or less) up to Cr1, the chits go up to Cr100, larger plaques
> go up from there. A well-secured attache case can carry
> the purchase price of a starship, good the moment it is presented
> at a shipyard with no wait while a bank two months away sends
> approval. Better yet, people have something to steal when you
> mug them...<g>
> 
On the subject of hard currency (specie), I can see two ways to view the
subject, given that transmutation of elements is possible, even at TL
8:  either the standard of currency is a material that is intrinsically
valuable, regardless of the quantity (e.g., lanthanum for jump drive
grids), or the currency standard is based on the naturally-occurring
ratio of isotopes of the material in question.  In other words, while
transmuting other elements into chemically-pure iridium may be possible,
and, for industrial uses, profitable, getting the ratio of isotopes
correct to match naturally-occurring iridium, the Imperial monetary
standard, may be more expensive than the natural iridium one hopes to
duplicate.

> I also use Letters of Credit (an idea I got from the Knights Templar),
> portable items of value like gems (an idea I got from SPI's wargame
> _Freedom in the Galaxy_), and some credit cards.
> 
Logical.

> Credit cards are most commonly used by the vast majority of people
> who don't travel between the stars. They are also used by people who
> don't travel far, or stay on the same routes (so their financial data
> can keep up with them). The moment you get away from X-Boat routes,
> your credit card becomes unreliable. A lower-tech world might not
> be able to take it at all, and even the higher-tech startown
> establishment's reader might reject your card (not long enough on
> planet, no previous recorded planetfalls, no records, etc). IMTU,
> everyone carries cash. This may also be the reason, BTW, most
> people seem to carry weapons as well...
> 
> An Example of high finance:
> 
> Ex-Merchant Captain Jed Furgall decides to buy a nice, new
> Far Trader at Regina. He won the Monsterball Lottery Jackpot on Efate
> last month, and he has a bank account in the First Bank of Efate
> with MCr49 in it. Captain Furgall has no reputation as a swindler,
> the news from Efate mentioned his newfound wealth, and he brought
> a Letter of Credit from his bank on Efate to a bank (that knew the Efate
> bank) on Regina. The Regina bank will extend him credit (which will
> eventually be balanced by an electronic or even physical transfer
> of wealth between the bank on Efate and the bank on Regina), he
> can probably buy his starship today if one is sitting on the lot.
> 
> Many travellers wear rings, pendants and other small items of value
> to use as a cash reserve. Those who travel frequently to primitive
> planets often are quite encumbered by such trinkets, as they may
> need to deal regularly with people who would rather barter than take
> odd-looking pieces of plastic.

Reminds me of the story behind the tradition of Special Forces soldiers
wearing star sapphire rings and Rolex watches:  as guaranteed tickets
out of any given Third World country, if things go to Fort Polk in a
handbasket.
> 
> What does a fistful of credits look like IYTU?
> 
<tongue-in-cheek> Like a few credits more? </tongue-in-cheek> 
~suppressing mental images of spaghetti space operas.....~

> Walt Smith

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:33:51 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: tax farming in Traveller?

>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: Re: Transponder ... possibly mutating into piracy
...
>Total system cost will be around MCr 100, which means any dirtball can
>afford it, if it is prepared to outsource it's custom duties business to
>Famile Spofulam's Finance Division, of course.

  Tax farming. I'm disgusted, Comrade. And don't try that "I'm only
channelling Mr. Elliott" - just because he went to law school doesn't
mean that he's a parasite :>

  But seriously, although the reasons would be completely different I
can see the 3I's weedier member states farming out their fisc fairly 
often even while the Imperium never would (though we haven't yet seen
a pre-TNE statement of what that tax base is, IIRC).

  For a regime as byzantine as the 3I, it would actually make sense for
there to be a (low-key - who wants to watch a documentary about pushing
the frontiers of accountancy* in some backwater system) mega-corp that
does nothing but offer a complete array of financial services: customs,
foreign exchange, advances against revenue, long-term loans, and broad
consultantcy services (gee, their troubleshooters almost all seem to be
ex-Imperial service officers - they must have a good working relationship
with the Navy's personnel tracking/pensions department!).

  I wonder if ImperialLines has a sister (mother?) corp? Or maybe this is
the idea that they didn't implement but should have?

  * go ahead - it's been months since snippets of that sketch were last
posted...

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:36:15 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: HIWG CD-ROM update

	I've decided the cutoff point for this edition of the CD, will be around 50
copies, maybe 75 if I renew one license. This leaves about 20 copies to go.
	After which I'll be working on the 2.0 release. I expect that release to go
out somewhere after April I think.
	I expect the price for the 2.0 release might go up depending on preorders (no
I'm not taking any yet, but I will make notification of when I do).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:13:40 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: How to run a 3I Ship Registry (was Transponders)

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Transponders
...
>A ship comes into port claiming to be _Mae Lee_, a rebuild hull under
>new registry from a backwater planet five or six parsecs away.
>Starport control has never heard of _Mae Lee_ before, and says
>"prove that what you say is true". The captain asks, "How?"

  This problem _could not_ arise if the registry info on a new (or rebuilt)
ship were required to be distributed when the work started; a new starship
can't really be built in under half a year, which is [~24 * 2.8] about a
sector and a half circle of pre-information: a rebuild would hardly ever
come in under 10 weeks.

  The common existence of this problem requires that the authorities not 
make any serious effort to avoid it.

  OTOH, it is much easier to assume that after-the-fact checking of ships
whereabouts (ship X was logged in two places on date Y - put out APB) is
conducted in a leisurely manner to avoid false alerts caused by delays in
the X-boat system*.

  * it would be interesting to see the results of the somewhat masochistic
task of analysing what delays could accrue randomly across sections of the
network given various sets of assumptions.

...
>legitimate ship using a faked transponder - is that a serious enough
>offense, in and of itself, for the ship to be seized?

  It is if the Imperium says so :> - wasn't cocaine legal in the States
until 1911 or so?

...
>Big companies should never see this problem./...

  Big ships will in any event will likely have the assets to paste any
small non-warship without raising a sweat (that or they're operating
somewhere too safe for it to be defined as an issue).

        Steven Hudson


  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:05:02 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: 1x10^6 Colony Ship

Here is my go at the million-colonist ship.  This is a real quick design,
down on the Akins spreadsheet.  If anybody really wants, I can go back and
polish it.  Considering I ended up with 211m3 spare out of 2.8x10^7m3, I
think it's pretty tight as is.

John C. Fremont was the first white gut to cross the Golden Gate to what
became San Francisco, therefore becoming legendary as the First Commuter.

*************************

John C. Fremont, Okie class Terran Colonization Vessel (FF&S v2)
Designed by Douglas Berry

Statistics
Tons: 2,000,000std ( USL Med Cylinder )
Volume: 28,000,000m3
Dimensions: 523.7m x 260m x 260m
Mass (L/C): 10,285,845t/8,978,945t
Crew: 12,646/44,619
Cargo: 50,000std (0/30 /Hdl:40x100ton)
Colonists: 1,000,000
Cost: 440,737.622 MCr
Maintenance Points: 418,434
Tech Level: 12
Size: 12

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 3x Comp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Bridge.
Communications: 1x Radio (500,000km, 0.17MW). 1x Laser (1,000AU, 0MW)
Sensors: 1x PEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0MW). 1x AEMS (8, 0.03MW)
Signatures: Vis:1.5, IR:2 (1.5 at 180,000MW), Act:1, Neu:2, Grav:2

Performance
3         Jump (200,000std/pc fuel)
0.8/0.9   Maneuver (/Thruster:210,000MW)
2         Power (Fus:1,800,000MW,1yr )
619285.7  Fuel (/Purif:96,3251MW)
528,512   Accomodations (Sm Staterooms)
4,000,000 Life Sup. (Ty:EnD,Nm /'St)
1         G-Comp
10 [29]   Armor, 59 Structure

Features
19,000x Airlock
1000x Decontamination Airlock
5x Docking Umbilical
100x Electronic Shop (6std ea.)
100x Machine Shop (10std ea.)
50x Laboratory (8std ea.)
1700x Sickbay (8std ea.)
1x Ship's locker (1000std ea.)
350x Prisoner Capacity (200/100/50)
1x Armory (7.14std ea.)
4000x Gym (2.5std ea.)
1000x Full Galley (Cap:500)

Small Craft
40xMinHgr (100std, 20 hatches)
15xMinHgr (50std, 15 hatches)

Crew Details
2xMnvr. 9840xEngr. 598xMain. 300xFlgt. 2500xTrps. 2206xCmnd. 20,540xStew.
8633xMed.

In the wake of the collapse of the Ziru Sirka, Terrans fled their homeworld
in an exodus of unheard of proportions.  With nearly limitless space
available, every group that felt entitled to homeland now had the chance to
take one.

To accommodate these masses of people, Harley-Davidson of Ceres began
constructing the "Okie" class Colonial Transport.  A simple design made to
move one million colonists to their new homes.

The John C. Fremont, a typical example of these ships, is a two million ton
cylinder, half a kilometer long.  Equipped with minimal thrusters, the
vessel is incapable of making more than .8 G acceleration.  The Jump drives
were top of the line for their day, and were capable of jump three.  Due to
the ongoing power requirement of the jump drive, the power plant was
massively over strength, and was only run a peak power for jump evolutions.
 Normal loading was about 22% of full capacity.

The ship's electronics were basic.  A simple PEMS/AEMS array made up the
sensor suite, and the computer assembly, while good, tended to be whatever
system was available to the shipyard during construction.  The operating
system was design for maximum ease of use, allowing a (relatively) smaller
crew.

The Fremont is unarmed, and unarmored.  It was expected the units of the
Confederation Navy would escort colonists to their destination, if only to
provide an accurate census for the taxmen back on Earth!  Due to their
sheer size, the Okie class could absorb considerable damage.

Colonists lived in cramped quarters, but had the use of the farm decks for
recreation.  On these double height decks, animals as large as pigs were
kept for food.  Hydroponics vats provided fresh vegetables and fruit.
Since the journey to a new world might take months to complete, one
gymnasium was provided for every 250 colonists onboard.

Living in such cramped quarters demands discipline, and a 2500-man police
force provided enforcement of the ship's regulations.  Jail capacity for
350 was put in, although most breeches were dealt with by fines or
confinement to quarters.

Once the target system was reached, the colonists would disembark on the
forty 100-ton shuttles.  These vessels would also ferry down the fifty
thousand tons of equipment held in the hold.  This amounted to only 50kg
per colonist, so great care had to be taken in choosing what to bring with
you!

Also carried were 15 cutters optimized for survey work.  These cutters
would act as liaison and scout craft during the initial start-up for the
colony, and often the contract between the colonial group and the Terran
Confederation government called for the purchase of one or two cutters when
the Okie left the system.

Ships like the Fremont would tend to loiter on site for 4-6 standard
months.  This was to allow the colony to take root, and if necessary,
perform an emergency evacuation of the colony.

***********************************************

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #843
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 844



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Piracy!!  (was re: Transponders)
Money In Traveller (Longish)
re: Transponders (was re: Piracy)
re: Money in Traveller
Game shops in Idaho/Washington? (way off topic)
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists (longish)
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Game shops in Idaho/Washington? (way off topic)
Transonders and computers
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Planet Stuff (was - Re: Traveller Text Adventures)
Re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Ship displacement
Manuever Drive Book
Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:31:24 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Piracy!!  (was re: Transponders)

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: Piracy!!  (was re: Transponders)
...
>The most famous pirate havens of the 18th century were in waters
>patrolled by the British navy, the most powerful navy in the world at the
>time. The 3i is practically omnipotent, but cannot know everything or
>be everywhere.

  In all seriousness I assume that you're talking about the West Indies
and environ? Given that one of the basic premises of the Piracy debate
(#25?) is that privateering doesn't count, you still have to fuzz the
definition tremendously (by allowing operation from state-sanctioned
safe ports) to have any sort of piracy against truly important targets.

  AFAIK, the English and Dutch (and economics - funny, that) sharply
reduced oceanic borne piracy most of a century before 1707. There's
no case that I'm aware of to be made for significant piracy by ocean-
going vessels in the RN's domain after the Seven Years War, except
during wartime (i.e., privateering, for all practical purposes).

  In OTU you can't find possible pirate bases, but interdicting the 
practical hunting grounds is simple; in RL the reverse is largely
true, with the exception of the limited case exemplified by the 
SW Pacific archipelagos and the locals habit of basing small pirate
craft up any river they could.

  OC, that too was put an end to without any major effort by the UK or
the RN (although the exertions were quite extreme for the units so tasked).

  Is #1 Virus or near-C rocks?

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:25:57 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Money In Traveller (Longish)

Seems to me the future of money is probably going to be some sort of
smart-card, with the value embedded on it.  The smart-card would be
associated with a particular financial institution or group of
institutions within (say) Jump 4 of one another. Financial relations
beyond this distance (i.e, about a two week turn around period for the
x-boat system, other things being equal) become progressively more and
more dodgey, as the ability of persons to charge-up and skip debt becomes
too easy.

As I see it, when you come into a system (given that the tech level is
ok), you would down-load some of your money to a local financial
institution (or even a local branch of the institution that has provided
your smart card) for use in EFTPOS or other charging, or even in the form
of hard cash.  When you want to depart the system, you can either leave
your money there for the next time, or close the account and put the value
back onto the smart-card.

This gives a game-universe justification for characters operating out of a
particular world or set of worlds as a base - away from your base of ops,
doesn't matter how much money you have if you plain can't get access to
it.

How would these cards work?  They would need _hyper_ strong crypto, and
would have a variety of security measures associated with them -
biometrics, PINs, tamper resistance, and so forth.  The other implication
of this sort of a financial regieme is that electronic forgery ought be a
High Imperial crime - screwing with the finance system is screwing with
the very fabric of the Imperium, and ought be punished accordingly.
Dealing with these sorts of crimes would be a high priority for MOJ, and
conceivably IRIS (if there is evidence that this activity is being done by
a foreign power).  I am not sure what the canon answer is to this - its
been a while since I have played Traveller (as Colin Hutchinson well
knows).

Regards

Jeff Malone aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov 8-)

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:49:52 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponders (was re: Piracy)

Steve Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>A ship comes into port claiming to be _Mae Lee_, a rebuild hull under
>new registry from a backwater planet five or six parsecs away.
>Starport control has never heard of _Mae Lee_ before, and says
>"prove that what you say is true". The captain asks, "How?"

  This problem _could not_ arise if the registry info on a new (or rebuilt)
ship were required to be distributed when the work started; a new starship
can't really be built in under half a year, which is [~24 * 2.8] about a
sector and a half circle of pre-information: a rebuild would hardly ever
come in under 10 weeks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
She's under new registry, with a new owner. I picked "rebuild hull"
because (IMTU) so many ships of dubious background are (or pass
themselves off as) scrapyard rebuilds to explain away missing,
damaged, or unusual serial numbers on parts. Getting a new registry
and new owner on a ship shouldn't take long, a lot less time than it
would take for independent verification of the change to trickle through
backwater planets.

Steve again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
  OTOH, it is much easier to assume that after-the-fact checking of ships
whereabouts (ship X was logged in two places on date Y - put out APB) is
conducted in a leisurely manner to avoid false alerts caused by delays in
the X-boat system*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like this idea. Gives the players some room to run if they've been
misbehaving, keeps planetary governments from shooting themselves
in the foot too badly free trader-wise.

But you do get the problem: _Driven Snow_ is logged as being in
two different places on date Y. You catch _Driven Snow_, she claims
to have only been in one place - says either your computer records are
faulty, or that someone else has a copy of their transponder signature.
Unless the Imperium has decreed their records to be perfect, or has
decreed that the transponder system is unbreakable, you'll still need
proof that _Driven Snow_ did more than show up as a glitch in your
records.

(Note that the Imperium can have decreed either or both of these
things without them being necessarily true. I'm imagining a Darrian
anarchist computer hacker making a mint selling TL-16 transponder
spoofers to the Imperial underground, but the Impies trying to cover
it up until they figure out what to do about it.)

This may be where your forensics experts start going over _Driven
Snow_ with a fine-toothed particle sifter...

Steve again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Big companies should never see this problem./...

  Big ships will in any event will likely have the assets to paste any
small non-warship without raising a sweat (that or they're operating
somewhere too safe for it to be defined as an issue).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Big companies will have the assets and operating territory to not
worry about this. Heck, their ships are probably carrying the government
mail contract with the hardcopy backups of their new ship registrations
anyway.


Walt Smith


Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:57:45 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Money in Traveller

Jeffrey Malone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
How would these cards work?  They would need _hyper_ strong crypto, and
would have a variety of security measures associated with them -
biometrics, PINs, tamper resistance, and so forth.  The other implication
of this sort of a financial regieme is that electronic forgery ought be a
High Imperial crime - screwing with the finance system is screwing with
the very fabric of the Imperium, and ought be punished accordingly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There is no crypto that can't be cracked, especially considering the
varying tech levels found within a jump of each other (or at least
a sector of each other). That's why IMTU credit cards/smartcards
and such are not very important - any time a society starts doing
most of their finance this way, they attract the attention of greedy
people with better crypto tech.

You will find credit cards IMTU being used by people who never outrun
their financial records - people who don't travel, or people who stay
on a certain section of main. They leave their stomping grounds,
their credit cards stop working for a while - maybe until they go home.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 07:15:35 +0100
From: Fred Hood <Fred@cetaganda.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Game shops in Idaho/Washington? (way off topic)

On saturday I'm off to Coeur d'Alene, via Spokane. I'll have wednesday 
morning for shopping. Does anyone know of an FLGS in the area?

Fred.

"kind hearted people might think there was some ingenious way to disarm 
or defeat an enemy without too much bloodshed, and might imagine this is 
the true goal of the art of war. Pleasant as it sounds this is a fallacy 
that must be exposed"
Clausewitz, On War, page 1

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:21:03 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists (longish)

> > 
> <<snips description of 1,000,000 Td ship that relies on 250,000
> emergency low berths to move the requisite number of colonists>>
> 
> A couple of problems here.  First, you _seriously_ underestimated 
the
> number of medical personnel one would need to revive that many low
> passengers.  At one medic/doctor per 20 low passengers (FF&S v2, 
pg.
> 77), you need 50,000 medical personnel to tend to reviving the low
> passengers, with 1 sickbay/2 medical crew.  Since each sickbay 
requires
> 8 Td (FF&S v2 Table 8), your sickbay space alone takes 200,000 Td 
(not
> to mention the accomodations for 50,000 medical personnel).
Of course you can get around that easily by making the medical 
personnel for the colony the first ones you wake up.
rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:49:49 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:48:49 +1200
>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>

>>Well, this is an assumption.  I can easily see the Vilani having
>>a non-decimal system.

>They use a very decimal calendar, so I'd say its odd are fairly good that
>they
>use a decimal system of weights and measures.

I don't know, Europe uses a non-decimal calander and has a decimal
measurement system.  Unless the calander and measurement system
were invented by the same person, that doesn't, IMO, follow.

I'm sure you can come up with a bunch of reason why they _might_
have a decimal system, but it isn't certain and it still is the
same thing as the metric system.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:56:26 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:48:49 +1200
"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>This is much like if the US suddenly ruled the entire world.  Would
>>everyone switch from metric to English units?  I doubt it.

>If the US wanted to effect the change it would happen. In the past few
>decades
>numerous countries have done exactly that.

Heck the US can't get its own citizens to change.

> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.

Since they were convinced that is was necessary to be in step with
the majority of the world.  The rule of Man presuposes that a small
minority will make a population give up an existing system of
measurement and retool just because they say so....

>it would make a lot of sense for them to have done so.

Why?  Is would make more sense, efficiencywise, for the Terrans
to adopt the system the Vilani were using.

>>Even if so, you then have the Long night and standards will drift
>>with each region developing it's own version of the standard, reverting
>>to an old standard, or adopting new ones.

>Very true, which is why the metric system only has to survive in the 17 or so
>worlds that made up the Sylean Federation; again not too hard to believe.

It has to survive several millenia intact.  The odds of it evolving
to a new system are good.

Now if you want to assume it happens, it isn't outside the realm
of possibility, but my point is that this is hardly the obvious
choice for a believable background.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:02:05 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> >> That may be the case - have a look in the book when your author's copy
> >> arrives - the RCCS is nestling there, right next to the picture of...
could
> >> it be the Azhanti Inquistion?
> >But no one expects [GAK] . . . .
> No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition, our two main weapons are,......
<I
> can't do this any more..>

No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition, our two main weapons are; Surprise,
Fear, & Fusion Guns....  No, wait a minute that's three, OK, our three main
weapons are; Surprise, Fear, Fusion Guns, & Spinal Mounts...  No, hold
on...  Our Four Main Weapons are; Surprise, Fear, Fusion Guns, Spinal
Mounts, & Deep Meson Sites...

> ;-)

;<)>

> Dom (T-2)

The Bishop
AKA, Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:59:49 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

A few more thoughts on damage from radiation.  If these neutrons and gamma
rays reach the (shielded poewrplant) and penetrate then there is the danger
of melt down or worse.  given that energy doubling takes only tiny
fractions of a second, the reactor may well melt down, or if ecited enough
actually go critical.  Since the shiled will be warm anyway, the sudden
influx of heat build up may cause structural failure of the reactors
containment facility.  If I can work out the details I will post the results.

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:12:56 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: Game shops in Idaho/Washington? (way off topic)

Merlin's in Spokane is very nice.
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:55:59 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Transonders and computers

Since the transponder is just in effect a radiosignal connected to 
a computer of some sort, wouldn't it be possible for someone to get a 
hold of the programming and make as many transponders as need be?



Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 04:07:37 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

Legate Legion wrote:

> No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition, our two main weapons are; Surprise,
> Fear, & Fusion Guns....  No, wait a minute that's three, OK, our three main
> weapons are; Surprise, Fear, Fusion Guns, & Spinal Mounts...  No, hold
> on...  Our Four Main Weapons are; Surprise, Fear, Fusion Guns, Spinal
> Mounts, & Deep Meson Sites...

Strap her to the Fusion device!

{examines Jass Fusion CD, examines woman to be tortured,
disappointed look}

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 04:45:01 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
>
> > Well since we all seem agreed that I am (more or less) interpreting hand to
> > hand combat correctly (in which you can't interrupt, so lets not worry
> > about that), does it seem to you like there are many situations where you
> > are much better off drawing sword and closing rather than firing with a
> > pistol?
>
> The officer safety classes for the police here in Calgary teach that, if you
> haven't drawn your weapon, and you're facing a man with a knife who is within 30
> feet of you, you're in deep trouble. Your opponent will be able to close and
> attack before your gun will clear its holster.

That conclusion is fine.  But . . .

Would you be able to pull a sword in time?  A knife?  An axe?
I think the situation you describe means that pulling _any_ weapon is
going to sacrifice real initiative to the knife-wielder.  IMHO, you'd be
better off _not_ going for you weapon.

In Real Life (tm), 99% of those who use a knife to fight, don't know
what the hell they're doing, not that I know from any real experience.  I'm
sure in the inexhaustable well fo knowledge and experience on this list,
someone will have the straight dope.

But, from what I've read (and I think something discussing Jim Bowie's
professed skill), a _real_ knife fighter holds a knife with the butt in his palm,
thumb and finger on either side of the handle, with the knife held back
and close to the body.  The empty hand is held forward and is used to
grab or push the opponent into a position where the knife hand can
be used to stab into the body.  The idea being one knife hit = mortal wound.

Actually, I think a good way to test a fighting system might be to
compare the effects for dissimilarly equipped opponents.
For example, take someone trained in martial arts against someone
trained in knife, both with average stats.  Then a person untrained in
knife.  IMUO (In My Uninformed Opinion), won't the martial artist
be on equal footing with the trained knife fighter and have the advantage
against the untrained knife fighter, since most martial arts spend some
training in disarming such fighter.  It seems to me that the only significant
difference would be in the damage inflicted in the trained vs. trained.

Just something to ponder.
For me at least.

Bloo

Don't most martial arts involve
significant training in dealing with these situations?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 04:53:10 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 01:33 PM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Well, it looks like, for game purposes, you might be right.
> >But realism?  I worry.  I hope Mr. Berry and others working
> >on At Close Quarters are thinking/have thought about these issues.
>
> *whimper*
>
> What do people think?  Right now, we've brought back Recoil and Signature
> for ACQ.  Recoil affects the cost of using a weapon, and signature is sort
> of nebulous, but is used to define the difficulty of spotting a concealed
> firer.

Who snipes the sniper, eh?

These both sound great.  Recoil will vary according to different factors,
won't it?  Like tech level of firearm and any specific anti-recoil mechanisms,
whether the firer is braced, etc.

>  Add in a completely different way of handling autofire, and we're
> at the point where we are going to need a new armory to cover all the neat
> bits in weaponry.

> Do y'all want some sort of "weapon bulk" stat?

Sure.  Don't want those Droyne to be able to hide that PCMP on
their person.  ;-)  Although, length and mass might be enough.

> >Hmm, but charging down the halls of a starship into braced, steadied,
> >aimed submachinegun or laser fire on full-auto?  I hope the game
> >mechanics don't make axes a wise choice in that situation.  But from
> >what you say, I worry.
>
> In ACQ, if the SMGs had no chance of penetrating the armor (likely in the
> case of battledress), the folks in battledress can ignore the fire and move
> into contact and start flailing about with axes.

With BD, sure, but with something that does penetrate BD?

> If there is any danger from the defenders, they attackers have to make a
> task to act under the surpressive fire.

Even your hypnosis-trained, genetically engineered, battle-drugged,
combat veterans who know the smg fire can't hurt them and can
turn down the sound from all the fire in their audio system?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:00:53 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
> Given the probable prevalence of 'data rings' as described im M0, and
> the current 'java ring' technology which is so similar, ther could be a
> lot of smart data fed a gun in a Trav world,

I saw a report on television a year ago, that was mostly about non-lethal
weapons, but that a gun that when fired, would discharge some additional
very small particles, (I think grain of rice sized), that would have a unique
number on them allowing the gun owner to be identified.  (Its been a
while, I'm sure I have something wrong.  It might be that the bullets
contain something that will allow identification even if the bullet is
fragmented into rice-sized bits).

Also, someone was developing a sound system for cities to use that would
immediately trinagulate weapons fire and alert the police to the precise
location.  It was supposed to be able to discriminate between real gunfire
and other similar noises, but I doubt that.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:12:12 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Planet Stuff (was - Re: Traveller Text Adventures)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Let our "greenhouse" effect run away, and we might wind up like Venus too.

This reminds me about ice ages.

I know that our seasons are caused by the axial tilt.  But does it play
a role in ice ages too?  Just curious.

My other question/point:
Shouldn't a lot of planets be in an ice age at any given time?
Assuming most livable planets have ice ages.

And if they don't have ice ages, won't they have relatively smooth
worlds (from lack of moving glaciers) except from tectonic activity,
i.e., volcanoes and mountain ranges.  IIRC, most of the big flood
plains, like the Great Plains of the US, were caused by glaciation,
so without that factor, large and agriculturally fertile areas might be
smaller and concentrated?  Hmm, but then there's precipitation.
And if there is no flood plain, it sits and saturates, leaving us with
a mud world (not a Mudd world ;-) and probably swampy.
Definitely bad for development.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:17:52 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

Walter Smith wrote:

> I would, however, allow people using very short firearms (pistols, some
> SMG's) to treat those weapons as HTH combat weapons. Anyone
> ever hear of Gunkata (sp?)? It's a close-combat martial arts style
> where, instead of a sword or nunchaku, the weapon is a handgun.
> Not a style one uses for sport, of course - I think it comes from the
> Hong Kong organized crime scene.

Gunkata?  Hmm.  Surely Chow Yun Fat is the Grand Master.  ;-)
Just, please, no Gymkata.

> I've also heard of a training program for police officers and security
> specialists that teaches you how to use your gun effectively in
> bad situations - when you've been knocked down, when someone
> is struggling with you, etc. Very different than the training one would
> get on a regular pistol range, or even a combat simulator.

I think in Jackie Chan's "First Strike", he's holding a combat rifle
with just his fingers from the side, i.e., barrel facing left, stock right.
Of course, there is a bad guy on each side of him.  He pushes the
trigger. The bullet gets the baddie on the left.  The rifle itself,
from the recoil, gets the baddie on the right in the solar plexus
with a perfectly acted "Oof."  Maybe in 0G.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:21:32 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

Legate Legion wrote:

> > Di you know that Nasa's sending up a new probe called Deep Space 1 that
> > is equipped with an unprooven *Ion* drive? Powered by an unprooven solar
> > engine. And guided by an unprooven Super intelligent Navigation Computer.
> > I just thought you' like to know. This is one of the coolest things
> > sience Pathfinder! *Ion* Drive! Wow!

Whoever wrote this lifted it almost totally verbatim from CNN's story.
All those "unproven"s in row is hard to forget.  As the story went on to
say, the idea is from the early 60s.

There is a great chapter on Ion drives in a book called, IIRC,
"The Future of Rocketry" that makes the case that it will be the
drive of choice for large volumes to be shipped interplanetary distances,
where there is no rush.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:23:50 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Ship displacement

Mike Schade wrote:

> I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would have
> to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is sending out
> a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 2
> million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!

What level of life-support do you want?  As per FFS2?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:29:06 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Manuever Drive Book

I finally remember enough of the title for this book, and checked it
at amazon.  A must for ever ship-design gearhead.  At US$30,
I'd check university libraries first.  Borders used to carry it.


The Future of U.S. Rocketry
Edward Hujsak
Our Price: $29.95

Hardcover - 206 pages 1 edition (October 1994)
Mina-Helwig Co; ISBN: 1886133018

Availability: This title usually ships within 4-6 weeks. Please note
that titles
occasionally go out of print or publishers run out of stock. We will
notify you
within 2-3 weeks if we have trouble obtaining this title.
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 622,120



Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:29:16 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

Date sent:      	Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:56:26 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject:        	Re: Metric and GT

>Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:48:49 +1200
>"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>>This is much like if the US suddenly ruled the entire world.  Would
>>>everyone switch from metric to English units?  I doubt it.

>>If the US wanted to effect the change it would happen. In the past few
>>decades
>>numerous countries have done exactly that.

>Heck the US can't get its own citizens to change.

The US has never really tried :*>

>> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
>>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.

>Since they were convinced that is was necessary to be in step with
>the majority of the world.  The rule of Man presuposes that a small
>minority will make a population give up an existing system of
>measurement and retool just because they say so....

No the general population in these countries was at best ambivelant to the 
changes and there was considerable resistance. The change occured because 
it was imposed from above. Basically laws were passed requiring the use of 
metrics in certain everyday situations (speed limits, surveying and land, 
education, packaging etc.) the environment was changed to metrics, this 
coupled with a large education campaign forced the populous to change. 
Basically if you have to use metrics they will become your intuitive standard.

>>it would make a lot of sense for them to have done so.

>Why?  Is would make more sense, efficiencywise, for the Terrans
>to adopt the system the Vilani were using.

No, they have their own infrastructure based on Terran standards and even 
more importantly it is a darn good way of showing they are in charge (much like 
the use of Anglic as the official language).

>>>Even if so, you then have the Long night and standards will drift
>>>with each region developing it's own version of the standard, reverting
>>>to an old standard, or adopting new ones.

>>Very true, which is why the metric system only has to survive in the 17 or so
>>worlds that made up the Sylean Federation; again not too hard to believe.

>It has to survive several millenia intact.  The odds of it evolving
>to a new system are good.

Not really. Weights and measures don't evolve as such. They either survive 
pretty much intact or are totally replaced. The whole point of weights and 
measures is to give certainty, the mile has remained constant for over 1000 
years.

>Now if you want to assume it happens, it isn't outside the realm
>of possibility, but my point is that this is hardly the obvious
>choice for a believable background.

My point is that it adds to the background to assume that they do. Like the 365 
day year. Just why does the 3rd Imperium use a 365 day year? The "real" 
answer is that it makes the game a whole lot more playable; but the "game" 
answer is that Sylea just happens to have a 365 day year too (365.04 days 
IIRC from the TD it was covered in). Its little details like that which set Traveller 
apart in my mind.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #844
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 845



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vilani measures
Re: Ship displacement
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)
Re: Planet Stuff (was - Re: Traveller Text Adventures)
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Vilani measures
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists (longish)
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Ship displacement
Re: TNS
Re: Transponders
Re: Traveller Text Adventures
Re: Sports in traveller
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Piracy!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:29:16 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Vilani measures

Date sent:      	Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:49:49 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>>Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:48:49 +1200
>>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>

>>>Well, this is an assumption.  I can easily see the Vilani having
>>>a non-decimal system.

>>They use a very decimal calendar, so I'd say its odd are fairly good that
>>they
>>use a decimal system of weights and measures.

>I don't know, Europe uses a non-decimal calander and has a decimal
>measurement system.  Unless the calander and measurement system
>were invented by the same person, that doesn't, IMO, follow.

Curiously, at the same time as the metric system was introduced there was a 
big push to adopt a decimal calendar too (France even adopted it for awhile 
after the revolution); and it was invented by the same people who came up with 
the metric system. However our sense of time is more deeply ingrained then 
our sense of distance and proportions.

However the use of a decimal calendar by the Vilani indicates that they 
probably used base 10 numerology; and given their sense of efficency, a 
decimal system of weights and measures would make sense. Having said that, 
the Vilani measurement system I've created for my Interstellar Wars work is not 
strictly decimal. I've taken the liberty of reproducing it below:

From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <vallance@cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz>
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:35:43 +0000
Subject: [TravLang] Vilani maths
Reply-To: TravLang@mail.execnet.com

In the work I'm doing on the IW I wanted to make some Traditional 
Vilani weapons. This lead to the question of calibre, then to the 
Vilani system of measures, then to the Vilani numbering system etc.

So just how do the Vilani do maths? Starting with the basics:

Vilani weights and measures
  From what I understand, most systems of weights and measures are 
based on real world units (the foot, pace, grain etc), length seems 
to be frequently tied to the human body. So what do the Vilani use?
Here I think we can virtually pick a conversion factor out of thin 
air and justify from there. The basic Vilani length should be based 
on something very fundimental. Most foods will be processed beyond 
reconginition, so I think we should stick to the human body. How 
about the base unit is derived from wraping cord from the base of the 
thumb to the elbow (roughly 850mm)? A little large but workable. As 
you wrap the cord, you mark time on the fingers of the hand giving a 
larger unit of 4.25m (850 X 5). Now the year on Vland is 500 day/nights, so 
lets take the 4.25m unit and multiply by 500 to give a large scale 
unit (2.125km) Divide the base unit by measuring using the span from 
thumb to forefinger, which works out again at roughly 5 times (giving 
a unit of 170mm). Now this unit can be subdivided by using the middle 
joint of the thumb, this is about 35mm; if we make it 34mm this gives 
another lot of 5. For a preindustrial society these units will do 
fairly well. Latter, more can be added, since 5 seems to come up so 
much, lets stick with with it (sub units of 6.8mm and 1.36mm appear 
sufficent).

From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <vallance@cirrostratus.netaccess.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:30:02 +0000
Subject: Re: [TravLang] Vilani maths
Reply-To: TravLang@mail.execnet.com

> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:38:49 -0700
> From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
> Subject: Re: [TravLang] Vilani maths
> Reply-To: TravLang@mail.execnet.com

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> >Vilani weights and measures
> >reconginition, so I think we should stick to the human body. How
> >about the base unit is derived from wraping cord from the base of the
> >thumb to the elbow (roughly 850mm)? A little large but workable. As

> Huh?  This seems way too long -- I'm, uh, <calculate> 180cm tall and have a
> long-limbed body type, and estimating this with a ruler, my thumb-base to
> elbow span is about 30-35cm.  Or do you mean wrapping it thumb-elbow-
> thumb, a full loop?  Still seems awfully long, given that the Vilani are not
> markedly big by human standards even after millenia of high-tech medicine
> and nutrition.  They're not described as particularly lanky, either.

I did mean thumb-elbow-thumb (as you wind the cord you mark off on 
your fingers). Using my 187cm frame, I get 880mm for one pass (you 
have to remember you're measuring the thickness of the arm as well).

> Aside from my doubts over the size of the base unit, all these derivatives
> sound fine to me.

> (OTOH, V&V indicates that at least for calendar and time reckoning, Vilani
> uses decimal groupings of periods.  Perhaps for the larger and smaller
> sub-divisions that aren't based on some approximation of an objective unit,
> we could use 10s rather than 5s?)

That would make more sense I suppose. So if we take the base unit as 
the thumb-elbow-thumb length (hey somebody fancy asking Marc Millar 
to measure as a standard :*>), I got it from a mental image of a 
"tallyman" wrapping cord and chanting as he marked off on his fingers 
(hence the larger unit of 5 times that). However, if the Vilani use a 
base 10 system, it would make more sense for the "artifical" units 
to be decimal. So we have:

1 Daakuu (2.125km) = 500 Khaniimi
1 Khaniimi (4.25m) = 5 Edapu
1 Edapu (850mm) = 5 Amiran
1 Amiran (170mm) = 5 Shiig
1 Shiig (34mm) = 10 Ugdadu
1 Ugdadu (3.4mm) = 10 Rusakum
1 Rusakum (0.34mm)

[aside: I'd plumb for the standard Vilani gun calibres being 5.1mm, 
6.8mm, 8.5mm and 10.2mm]


Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:33:41 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Ship displacement

Mike Schade wrote:

> I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would have
> to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is sending out
> a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 2
> million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!

I suspect that you'll want to design smaller, independent hulls, then
attatch them together.  Maybe a cluster of spheres if using AG.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:39:36 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

William Prankard wrote:

> I hope I got my summs right!  Here it goes...
>
> 50mN = 0.00005 Thrust tons (kN)
> 0.00005Tth/0.5tonnes = 0.0001 G

Well, they said on CNN that it will increase its initial speed
by ten thousand times, so it will hit 1G someday.  ;-)

> There does not seem to be any data on what the engine alone masses or
> volumes as, but I'll keep looking!

Go Commander X!

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:56:22 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Athletes (was: Re: Traveller Sports)

SD Mooney wrote:

> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
> >Besides, I'd much rather have the rugby players than the soccer fans...
>
> Hmm. Usually you only have to worry about a minority of football (soccer)
> fans, but rugby players? You have to worry about the lot of them ;-)

If you hear the words "Scrum" and "Down", and you are not voluntarily
on a rugby pitch, get out fast!

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:53:46 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Planet Stuff (was - Re: Traveller Text Adventures)

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, steve daniels wrote:

>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Let our "greenhouse" effect run away, and we might wind up like Venus too.
>
>This reminds me about ice ages.
>
>I know that our seasons are caused by the axial tilt.  But does it play
>a role in ice ages too?  Just curious.

I think ice ages are currently attributed to activity cycles of the Sun. 

>
>My other question/point:
>Shouldn't a lot of planets be in an ice age at any given time?
>Assuming most livable planets have ice ages.

I would quess that a few stars in the Imperium will at any given time be
at their low end of activity causing ice ages on the habital planets in 
the system.


>Bloo

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:54:15 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Leo Hale wrote:

>      Someone wrote asking about the size of ship needed to move 1,000,000
> colonists.  He/She did not give any information other than it was at high
> tech level.  I have built a colony ship at TL15 that I think fits his
> requirements.  I have purposely built it overly large so that it would be
> able to carry all the items needed in a new colony project.
>
> Displacement: 1000000 tons

A million tons for a million people?
One ton per person?

Umm, isn't that going to be a bit crowded with
0.026 tons cargo per person?

I think you've made a typo or left something out.  By starting with
1,000,000 tons that you list, and subtracting all the things you list
with volume, I get 0.63 tons per person.  Thats before subtracting
volume for helpar and contragrav drives, jump drive, power plant,
computers, small craft and hangars, airlocks, low berths, labs
and shops, fuel purifiers,  (you put scoops on a ship this big?),
and AG/Compensators.

Maybe if everyone inhales.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:05:12 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Stuart L. Dollar wrote:

> When we wrote PI, and in particular when I wrote the section on
> detailing institutes, and detailing reactions, I had an eye to the
> future when writing for other Milieu books might be necessary.  In
> other words, with a few modifications, it can really be adapted fairly
> easily along the timeline.

This consumer says you succeeded.

> In retrospect, I think I went too far.  I think it loses some of its
> effectiveness by not doing good enough of a job of being persuasive
> to a reasonable person.  It certainly does make the extreme anti-
> psionics camp look scary, which was the goal.

Well, those who act "reasonably" can't even be sure they are thinking
for themselves!  They've already been co-opted.  No free-thinking
person could tolerate the situation where even your thoughts aren't
your own.  Psionicists destroy the personality for their own ends.
Without you even knowing it.  Like unseen parasites, they infest
and then warp your mind until you are nothing but a slave to your
psionic masters.  Only a vigorous and robust defense will keep them
at bay.  There can be no moderation.


Hehe.  Just a little rambling from and Anti-Psi point of view for
grins and giggles.

Bloo.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:05:59 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Stuart L. Dollar wrote:

> 60%+ doesn't define a minority in any sense of the word I know of.

If does to Bill Gates.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:15:48 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani measures

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Vilani weights and measures

> How about the base unit is derived from wraping cord from the base of the
> thumb to the elbow (roughly 850mm)?

That is essentially an Egyptian cubit.  The cubit was from the Pharaoh's
shoulder to elbow, but elbow-shoulder is very, very close to wrist-elbow,
which should also be very close to the lengths of your foot.  Try it
yourself.  Mine match.  ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 03:12:30 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists (longish)

At 11:21 PM 9/23/98 -0700, you wrote:

>> to mention the accomodations for 50,000 medical personnel).

>Of course you can get around that easily by making the medical 
>personnel for the colony the first ones you wake up.

Out of emergency low berths?  Odds are most of your medicos will be dead
before you get there.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:19:15 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> >>If the US wanted to effect the change it would happen. In the past few
> >>decades
> >>numerous countries have done exactly that.
>
> >Heck the US can't get its own citizens to change.
>
> The US has never really tried :*>

Because the US is 270 million different people who all think they know
whats best, and you can't tell 'em different.

At least, thats what this Yankee sees

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
As long as a foot has 12 inches in it, then its fine.
No matter how many toes its got.

;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:52:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ship displacement

In mail you write:

> I have an urget question. Does anyone know how large a ship would have
> to be to carry one million people? IMTU a high tech world is sending out
> a conlony ship and this was the question asked me.  I thought 1 to 2
> million might do, but aren't sure.  Help!

Ok, each person masses about 75 kilos. Add 25 kilos for possesions.
That's 100 kilos right there.

Next, how are you going to "pack" the people? Staterooms? Double
occupancy staterooms? Bunk rooms? And you can't use "hot-bunking" for
colonists. And unless the planet is pretty totalitarian, even the
"bunks" will be organized into fairly small groups, segregated by sex,
and to some extent by age (really young kids with mother or father,
older kids in bunkrooms with others of their age, late teens and up in
the adult bunkrooms). I'd figure 6-8 bunks per normal stateroom volume,
either with a 'fresher per bunkroom, or else big communal freshers (the
former being more likely than the later). 

For folks more used to crowding and less "private" (say Japanese), you
might have bunk rooms with hundreds of people and attached communal
facilities. This saves space, but increases the risk if the hull gets
punctured. 

For *really* callous governments, you use maximally crowded bunkrooms.
bunks 5 or 6 high, about 1 meter wide by 2 meters long, in long rows,
with about a meter between rows. For an example, check out the way
bunks were set up in concentration camps.

Next, you have to worry about tech level, in as much as it affects the
duration of the trip. That determines how much food you need. We can
assume that water is recycled on something this big. But food recycling
is out unless you are talking a trip years long. 

I used to have the figures for how much food a person needed per month.
If you have a copy, check Heinlein's "The Rolling Stones". It mentions
food, water and air requirements in passing. So do a couple of the
other juveniles. 

For water, assume 100 kg per person, that allows for washing drinking,
showers, and cleaning decks, tables, dishes, etc. And don't forget that
by the end of the trip, most of the food will have been converted to
water ( say 50% of the food mass). 

Fast drug might help. But regardless, this is going to be a *huge*
ship. 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:15:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TNS

In mail you write:

> Leonard asks:
>
>>Anybody else have any ideas what the above might mean?
>
> LKW
>
> [Raises hand, looks around, sees that no one else's hand is up, and 
> sheepishly lowers it again]
>
> Now I suppose you'l want me to _tell_ you...

Well, it's either that or we slip Ditzie a note saying that you have
volunteered to be a test subject. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:56:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

In mail you write:

> It also raises the issue of how controlling a society we see the
> Imperium.  We are talking about more required identification than
> the US uses today, in a society with fast communciation.  However,
> it is still true that records aren't always timely (I couldn't call
> some friends last week because directory assistance didn't have
> their number weeks after the phone had been activated).  In the
> Imperium, with limited communications, the task of moving transponder
> codes, and all the other data of a similar nature that one would then
> assume the keep, to every system in a timely manner is daunting.
> That is why all these transponders strike me as similar to the
> claimed "America in space" sydrome (except here it is modern western
> society in space).  We take fast communication for granted and
> don't realize what a different world it would be otherwise.

Actually, the *simplest* means of handling this is for each important
port to issue an "ID sequence" as part of the flight plan or as part of
issuing ships papers. This would be a *short* description of the ship,
plus a signature block, all encrypted with a public key cipher. Anybody
with the "published" key key can decrypt the block, getting a
description and the "signature". The signature had better matvh the
port's signature, and the description had better match the ship.

The trick is that you can't *generate* the encrypted info without
having the *private* key, which only the port authority has. And while
secure codes will require the highest available tech, the actual gizmos
for doing the encrypting decrypting should be fairly cheap. Something
even a low tech world can buy if they want to verify IDs. And, of
course, some won't *want* to (can you say "pirate haven"). 

This is equivalent to the codes and ciphers used in the 18th century
for ID purposes. And like them, it allows for all sorts of
skullduggery. Bribing officials, stealing codes, etc. All that fun
roleplaying stuff. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:13:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventures

In mail you write:

> At 16:04 22/09/98 +0200, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>
>>Mertactor is supposed to have a gravity of 0.82
>>due to a very high density (3.28 Earth normal).
>
> This would give it a density only slightly lower than pure Tungsten or
> Uranium. Does anyone know if it's possible for U238 to become critcal in
> planet sized masses? BOOMMMMM!!!!

No. It doesn't have an SF (Spontaneous Fission) decay mode. And there
are several other things that dense.

I think the planet would have *real* problems with heavy metal
contamination. Like Yeltsin in the Honor Harrington books, only
*worse*. It'd make a great place for mining for some things. But the
folks living there will need some *strange* dietary supplements. Things
like aluminum, sodium, and potassium should be *really* rare. Ditto for
sulfur and chlorine.

In fact, I'd guess that the planet spent a lot of time in an orbit
*closer* (relatively speaking) than Mercury, and then got knocked into
its present orbit by some fortuitous collisions late in the formation
of the system. Which means there ought to be a couple *mongo* "basins"
from the collisions. If it's low hydro, the seas will be in the bottom
of the basins, if medium to high, they'll be the major portions of the
oceans.

You see, this lets the less dense stuff get "baked" out. Then you get a
small amount of lighter material after the planet gets into the new
orbit. Thus the lack of lighter elements. 

I've unearthed some old notes I made while trying to "design" a planet
far inside the orbit of Mercury. I basicly took the Earth, dumped it
into position, then checked to see what would boil away (the planet is
at something around 3247 C). And I figured that it'd heat clear thru...

Here's a list of the solids and liquids....

Liquid, or maybe gas (properties not known well enough)
MgO ???
TaB2 ???
ThO2 ???
ZrB2 ???

Liquid:
BeO
B4C
Cr3C2
Cr2O3
HfO2
La2O3
ThC2
WC
W2C
UC2
VC
ZrO2
Ta2N

Solid:
C (graphite)
C (diamond)
HfC
HfN
NbC
TaC
TiC
ZrC

I never got around to completing the calacs that would have given me
the relative proportions, and the total mass. But feel free to steal
the above for a nasty little planet. It'd make a *wonderful* ore
deposit. The only problem is how to get at the stuff. :-)

Only way I can think of is to find a planet that got baked down to that
during the Red Giant stage of the star, and where the star quietly
burned down to a white dwarf, leaving this *dense* hunk of stuff frozen.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:41:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sports in traveller

In mail you write:

> At 11:23 22/09/98 -0400, Commander X wrote:
>
>>>Try Norse Stickball. It's "sport" invented by folks in the SCA. The
>>>"rules" amount to:
>>
>>>Whoever has the ball tries for a goal. 
>>>Everybody else tries to stop him.
>>>Body parts must be returned to the owner.
>>
>>>Folks have been known to play in full armor. :-)
>>
>>Sounds almost like another SCA favorite of mine,
>>Dragonball!
>>
>>Its done just like Norse Stickball, but the 'ball' is actualy a plush
>>dragon toy.  The body parts are connected through velcro.  the object is
>>to get the poor defenceless dragon to your goal in one peice, with points
>>taken off per each body part missing.
>
> I think I'll stand by the original (so far as I know) - Troll Ball.

Norse Stickball goes back to *at least* 1973.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:34:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

In mail you write:

> At 07:56 AM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an employed
>>white male.  That's no minority.
>
> I'm bisexual.  *Everybody* thinks we're perverted.

I don't. But then I'm bi too. :-)

> The effect is similar, since both psionics and people of non-standard
> orientation are invisible.  Our status isn't evident unless we tell you
> about it, or try to excercise our rights.  I've had to sit through some of
> the most rabid anti-gay rhetoric in silence, because speaking up would have
> lead to violence.  Psionic people would face a similar situation.

Hell, I had to give some *gay* friends a talking to after they started
making comments about bis that sounded exactly like the sort of
nonsense ignorant people say about gays (for example "I don't think
anyone is 'really' bi...").

> For a comparison of the styles, and a look at how deeply this hatred runs,
> go to:
>
> http://www.godhatesfags.com/    
>
> I swear, that's the URL.

Alt.callahans got invaded by one of those folks a while back.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:56:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Piracy!

In mail you write:

> Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote (regarding leeway with life support costs):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Trouble with that is that free traders scrabbling for their next bank
> payment could IMO be almost as desperate as pirates ("Well, boys, we have
> a choice: Either we eat this week or we keep the ship. What'll it be?")
> If you allow pirates to get away with this, you really ought to allow
> PCs to get away with it too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I let PC's get away with both this and field maintenance. They pay a
> price for it, though - no carrying of paying passengers when using
> minimal (abysmal) life support, not to mention having to put up with
> a ship that smells like six people and a tree rat. <g> Not to mention
> that if they get boarded by a customs patrol, they'll get lots of extra
> looks and suspicion because, quite simply, it will look like a pirate
> ship. Ever see a PC Traveller group that was comfortable with more
> attention from the authorities?  
>
> As for field maintenance, they'll almost certainly fail any safety inspection
> (which could happen at any class A or B starport, and will happen
> if they go in for legitimate annual maintenance). This will impound their
> ship until it is repaired up to spec - taking more time and money, by
> quite a bit, than they saved by doing it themselves.

Actually, the folks boarding ships for Customs inspections are going to
be the equivalent of the Coast Guard. Which means that they *will* be
concerned with safety. 

The way *I* would play this is that a ship with any "obvious" problems,
(like the stench mentioned) will get a quicky safety inspection.
They'll *probably* be willing to overlook things that don't affect the
ability to *control* the ship, as long as it's just the crew at risk.

Inability to control the ship properly will get them refused permission
to approach the planet. If the ship's boat checks out ok, they can use
*it* to shuttle themselves and cargo back and forth. If not, they'll
have to contact someone on-planet to run a shuttle for them. This is
because *nobody* wants a ship "falling out of the sky" on their planet.

And even life support problems will only be ignored to a point. Poor
filtration leads to the smells, but isn't life threatening (other than
long term toxicity). But if it looks like something could *fail* (thus
leaving them with only enough air for a few hours or less) they'll get
cited for that too, and that *will* require repairs before they are
allowed to leave the system.

Basicly, if the crew of the customs cutter can feel some sympathy, and
there doesn't seem to be a danger to the planet or to ships in the
vicinity, they'll let it go (and make jokes about it). 

If the crew pisses them off, or it looks like the ship could get into
trouble and thus either require rescueing, or pose a danger to others,
then they'll nail them.

> Not to mention the occaisional GM-imposed equipment failures caused
> by not following the guidelines in the Owner's manual...<g>

Yep. A good one would be a breakdown in the water recycling gear. This
could range from having to ration water, to having to "hand" process
sewage. 

If anyone is *really* interested, I could try to work up some possible
failures and consequences for some life support systems. Heck, maybe I
should try writing my own version of "Starship Operator's Manual" and
related books.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #845
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 846



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Ship's Business (was re: Transponders) [long]
Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.
was: Transponders, now *shudder* piracy
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Money (longish)
Free Traders and transponders
FW: Money (longish)
Life Support Breakdowns (Was Re: Piracy!)
Counting in Hexidecimal (was: Re: Metric and GT)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:18:22 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Ship's Business (was re: Transponders) [long]

>
>Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:49:52 -0400
>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Transponders (was re: Piracy)
>
>But you do get the problem: _Driven Snow_ is logged as being in
>two different places on date Y. You catch _Driven Snow_, she claims
>to have only been in one place - says either your computer records are
>faulty, or that someone else has a copy of their transponder signature.
>Unless the Imperium has decreed their records to be perfect, or has
>decreed that the transponder system is unbreakable, you'll still need
>proof that _Driven Snow_ did more than show up as a glitch in your
>records.
>
...
>This may be where your forensics experts start going over _Driven
>Snow_ with a fine-toothed particle sifter...
>

One of the reasons for the ongoing debate about transponders seems to be
the notion that one black box is the basis for all decisions on the
legality of ship's operations. The debate then centers around confirming or
denying the information that is provided by the transponder.  [Walt, I'm
not saying this is your position - you just gave the best lead-in.]  Other
than the omnipotent SDG-313F "Deyo Circuit" transponder, with connections
to all parts of the ship and total exchange of information on all aspects
of ship's operations, this is a lot to ask of a device that started out as
just a coded radio beacon.

In fact, the transponder is but one piece of a complex of paperwork and
records surrounding the day-to-day operations of a normal working
freighter.  How feasible you want piracy and skipping to be in your
universe is adjustable by varying how carefully this paperwork is checked,
and how far the information is shared.

Most freighters, even tramps (free traders, that follow no fixed schedule)
are going to send a list of projected portcalls ahead of themselves, to
drum up business.  Take a look at the London times in 1880 - the pages are
full of "The Mary Celeste will be docking at Portsmouth from Calais on the
10th instant, looking for cargos in need of a fast ship to Kingston in the
West Indies."  Even if the captain doesn't decide on the next stop until he
arrives and discharges cargo, he can still send a message a couple of days
ahead by a ship departing immediately while he waits to load.

Next, the ship carries a registry - her ID, if you will.  Like any good ID,
it carries a complete description, with dimensions, hold capacities,
numbers of staterooms, date of last annual maintenance, plus an identifying
picture.  In the here-and-now, a US merchant captain is required to
physically surrender the ship's registry to the US consul or shipping
commissioner when he arrives in port, and can't pick it up again until he's
cleared to leave.  Faking or altering a registry should be about as
difficult as convincingly forging a personal ID in your universe - one that
would stand up to official scrutiny for a week, say...

Third, every ship keeps a log.  Logbooks are a wonderful thing:  they tell
you where the ship has been, what it did there (complete with navigational
sightings and course corrections, communications sent and received, even
cargo and passenger manifests), and why.  Captains are going to keep good
logs for their own protection - come the day that you do have an accident,
your insurance underwriter is going to want to see all the dyas that you
didn't have an accident, when you made and logged all the required safety
checks, sensor sweeps, flight plans and STC clearances sent and received,
etc.  This convinces them that it was, in fact, an accident.  It also
covers the captain's butt if he has to, say, shoot a hijacker and stuff
them out the airlock in jumpspace, or turns off the transponder to avoid a
suspicious "freighter" in a low-tech backwater.  Again, it is possible to
fake a logbook, and probably every captain fudges an entry here and there -
but to do so consistently and well is the mark of genius.

Then there is the possibility of flight data recorders and cockpit voice
recorders.  I like these, but I understand that not everyone sees them as
necessary or desireable.  The point in their favor is that starships,
unlike their sea-going equivalents, take off and land like aircraft at very
high speeds and at centralized ports (defined by their Imperial extrality
limits, which will be as small as possible on most worlds).  The
possibility of a catastrophic accident is fairly high, enough to justify
the use of recorders.  Once you have them, they make a great check on the
excesses of a crew - how wild are you going to get, if you know that your
words are recorded for posterity if anything goes wrong?  Of course, there
are plenty of real-world crews that this didn't stop, so the black box need
not become Big Brother if you don't want it to.  But when correlated with
the ship's logbook and a simple transponder log of signals sent and
received, it becomes even more difficult to recreate the ship's past in
your own image - so much so, that I give my players a break and purge the
flight data recorder at each annual maintenance.  Some of their ships are
really well maintained...

I won't go into manifests (crew, passenger, and cargo), consular records,
health records, ship's accounts, or any of the other documentary evidence
that even the smallest ship will carry with her.  Suffice to say, if a ship
were to "lose" all her records ("EMP weapon on that missile - I'm sure of
it!") she and her captain would be in for a long and detailed investigation
at the next Imperial port she touched down at, before the Imperial consul
would even consider issuing a new registry.

So, how do you know the S.S. Driven Snow you have is the correct one?  She
has log entries going back to her last annual maintenance listed on her
registry, that match both the transponder log and the flight data recorder,
and that correlate well with the occasional message on the commercial pages
about where she would be seeking cargo.  Her accounts show payments and
receipts for all the worlds she claims to have visited, and - the clincher
- - one of the manifests has the name of a guy you served with in the Navy,
that you knew always wanted to take a trip to Glisten.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 04:02:58 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.

"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote

> > >> That may be the case - have a look in the book when your author's 
> > >> copy arrives - the RCCS is nestling there, right next to the 
> > >> picture of...could it be the Azhanti Inquistion?

> > >But no one expects [GAK] . . . .

> No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition, our two main weapons are; 
> Surprise, Fear, & Fusion Guns....  No, wait a minute that's three, OK, 
> our three main weapons are; Surprise, Fear, Fusion Guns, & Spinal 
> Mounts...  No, hold on...  Our Four Main Weapons are; Surprise, Fear, 
> Fusion Guns, Spinal Mounts, & Deep Meson Sites...

But what about your fanatical devotion to the Emperor?

Ah, amongst our many weapons are Surprise, Fear, Fusion Weapons, Spinal
Mounts, Depp Meson Sites, and our almost fanatical devotion to the
Emperor.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:08:42
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: was: Transponders, now *shudder* piracy

OK, you are Starport Control, and you have a Free Trader with greatly
inadequate paperwork. Now, you could just impound it until the paperwork
gets sorted out, but that would be impolite, damaging to trade and so on.

So you ask the captain into your office for a short meeting, and explain
the problem.

Now, if the starport has the required facilities (and she has the cash
reserve), he could just push forward scheduled maintainence until things
get sorted out.

Alternativly, the two of you could come to an agreement about a route for
the next two months or so, and they could get a new couple of passengers
.. the daring Lt Mitiski, and his friend the young Cadet Spofulam (*) who
will stay on the ship until it clears the Watch List. The exhaustive search
of the ship is a mere courtesy detail, as is Lt Mitiski's friend's
extensive collection of sidearms.

If neccessary, assuming that ships with grossly inadequate paperwork are
rare, the Starport Authority could lease the ship sans crew for a couple of
months, putting it to work on some milk run. Once the paperwork clears,
then the owners have the ship back. If it doesnt clear, well, I guess it
gets sold at auction.

Ian Whitchurch


(*) Hey, all things are possible. Heck, they gave *me* a security clearance
at work. I'm sure it wouldnt be a problem for a nice young thing like
Ditzie to get a job in the Imperial Civil Service.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:45:30 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
To: <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:29:25 -0400
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

Here's my review:

None of the game stores around here will have it for another week!  I'm 
so
pissed.

Dan

=======================

Arrrr, joost call on oos as'troid pi-rates, we'll soon be a peggin' 
roond shot at 'em!!!



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:05:33 +0300
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Steve Daniels wrote:

> In Real Life (tm), 99% of those who use a knife to fight, don't know
> what the hell they're doing...

	... fortunately.

> ... a _real_ knife fighter holds a knife with the butt in his palm,
> thumb and finger on either side of the handle, with the knife held back
> and close to the body.  The empty hand is held forward and is used to
> grab or push the opponent into a position where the knife hand can
> be used to stab into the body.

	Depends on the style and knife.

	Many sub-hilt knives (and those with finger grooves in grip)
	are intended solely for use in sabre grip position and are
	very awakward in other positions. This sabre grip is usually
	used in fencing position with leading knife-hand.

	While using double-edged blade I prefer quarter-sabre grip
	with leading knife-hand and lower fencing position. From
	quarter-sabre it is possible to make extremely fast and
	lethal thrust/rip attacks.

	With a Tanto I prefer the neko-stance with either straight
	grip with leading knife-hand or reverse blade and leading
	off-hand. In these positions (especially with reverse blade)
	the off-hand is used to check the arm of incoming knife-hand
	and guide it against my own blade.

	Some people prefer to wrap a leather jacket around the off-hand
	and parry with the jacket. (In earlier times knife-fighters
	used to wrap a cloak around the off-hand. This style was called
	"cloak and dagger".)

> The idea being one knife hit = mortal wound.

	In Tantojutsu the basic idea is to cause permanent, disabling
	damage as fast as possible and move to the next target. After
	the first succesful attack one should be able to disengage the
	opponents and leave him to die.

> For example, take someone trained in martial arts against someone
> trained in knife, both with average stats. Then a person untrained
> in knife.  

	The main problem in knife-fighting is that it is possible
	to make disabling or lethal damage with very little force.
	The knife-fighter will have advantage over martial artist
	since he can sacrifice strength for speed and still end the
	fight with first strike (and if the knife-fighter knows how
	to block with living blade, the first-and-last strike may be
	a one made by the martial artist).

> ... won't the martial artist be on equal footing with the trained
> knife fighter and have the advantage against the untrained knife
> fighter, fince most martial arts spend some training in disarming
> such fighter.

	Unfortunately almost all anti-knife techniques I have seen
	are usable only against totally unskilled (and preferably
	bind and paralyzed) knife-fighter. Trained knife-fighters
	should know many of these disarming maneuvers and know what
	to expect. Additionally there are specific "invitation"
	maneuvers designed to lure the opponent to disarm the knife.
	A successful "invitation" usually ends when the disarmer has
	lost several fingers or is bleeding from wrist wounds.



        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:20:59 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

>Also, someone was developing a sound system for cities to use that would
>immediately trinagulate weapons fire and alert the police to the precise
>location.  It was supposed to be able to discriminate between real
>gunfire and other similar noises, but I doubt that.

The system was designed to catch snipers in an urban warfare enviroment.
You come accross a sniper, you but the sensors around the place, you get
the sniper to shoot something, and then you level the building with a
millan that is attached to the sensors.

I'm not sure which armed forces it was designed for but probably the US.
The sensors were designed to discriminate, and only pick up gunfire.

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:27:11 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

One single comment on your president (he's sure not MINE!!) and his so 
called polls;

A poll is only able to be useful if you have FOUR pieces of data;

1  The poll results
2  The number of people polled
3  The population polled
4  The questions asked

60%?  My eye!!!  I have personally not met a single person who approves 
of him yet!!

Jim

PS  sorry for wasting the bandwidth on this, I'll get off my soapbox 
now.




- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:18:59 -7
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

On 23 Sep 98, at 16:03, Brannon Boren wrote:

> Oh come now. He could be gay. He could be jewish. He could be a Bill
> Clinton supporter.  ;)

Hmm.  Clinton's approval rating is 60%+ after Monday's release of 
the testimony according to 3 different polls.  60%+ doesn't define a 
minority in any sense of the word I know of.

Stu "The Pebble In The Political Shoe" Dollar

Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:42:05 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Money (longish)

IMTU, the base unit of money is the Confederate Solar, which is defined 
as being equivalent in worth to 1/100th of an ounce of gold.  The money 
itself is in the form of a plastic slip, paperthin, 10 cm long by 5 cm 
wide.  It is printed in demoninations of 1,10,50,100,500 etc. up to 
100,000 Sols.  Coinage is produced as well, in denoms of 
0.01,0.05,0.1,and 0.5 Sol.  This money is generally limited in use to a 
single world, any transfers between worlds are handled by either gold 
itself (all the pirates begin to drool) but mostly by securely (we hope) 
coded data cards.  A data card is about the size of a credit card, 
basically the future version of a floppy disc.  Data cards are also used 
for lines of credit, basically encoded with an amount of cash, you put 
it in a reader, make your purchases, and the reader deducts the amount.  
Banks and other large institutions may also issue letters of credit, but 
these are generally for large (LARGE) commercial accounts.  In the 
wilds, barter is the only reliable form of commerce, everything from 
trinkets and jewelry to weapons and heavy machinery are used out there.





Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.



- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
To: "'TML'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Money (longish)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:15:38 -0400
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

What do people use in their Traveller universes for money? Does
it exist in cash form in high tech societies? How do interstellar
travellers deal with electronic banking when they are travelling 
faster than the financial information needed to make such transactions?

I use some ideas I saw in White Dwarf magazine a long time ago
(when it was good, not just a house organ for Games Workshop)
involving hard to forge high-tech plastic coins, money chits and
plaques. The big black plaques are MCr1, the little white coins are
tenth-Cr (or less) up to Cr1, the chits go up to Cr100, larger plaques
go up from there. A well-secured attache case can carry
the purchase price of a starship, good the moment it is presented
at a shipyard with no wait while a bank two months away sends
approval. Better yet, people have something to steal when you
mug them...<g>

I also use Letters of Credit (an idea I got from the Knights Templar),
portable items of value like gems (an idea I got from SPI's wargame
_Freedom in the Galaxy_), and some credit cards.

Credit cards are most commonly used by the vast majority of people
who don't travel between the stars. They are also used by people who
don't travel far, or stay on the same routes (so their financial data
can keep up with them). The moment you get away from X-Boat routes,
your credit card becomes unreliable. A lower-tech world might not
be able to take it at all, and even the higher-tech startown 
establishment's reader might reject your card (not long enough on
planet, no previous recorded planetfalls, no records, etc). IMTU,
everyone carries cash. This may also be the reason, BTW, most
people seem to carry weapons as well...

An Example of high finance:

Ex-Merchant Captain Jed Furgall decides to buy a nice, new
Far Trader at Regina. He won the Monsterball Lottery Jackpot on Efate
last month, and he has a bank account in the First Bank of Efate
with MCr49 in it. Captain Furgall has no reputation as a swindler,
the news from Efate mentioned his newfound wealth, and he brought
a Letter of Credit from his bank on Efate to a bank (that knew the Efate
bank) on Regina. The Regina bank will extend him credit (which will
eventually be balanced by an electronic or even physical transfer
of wealth between the bank on Efate and the bank on Regina), he
can probably buy his starship today if one is sitting on the lot.

Many travellers wear rings, pendants and other small items of value
to use as a cash reserve. Those who travel frequently to primitive
planets often are quite encumbered by such trinkets, as they may
need to deal regularly with people who would rather barter than take
odd-looking pieces of plastic.

What does a fistful of credits look like IYTU?


Walt Smith






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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:37:36 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Free Traders and transponders

(From an interview with Captain Solomon Katz, master and pilot of the
Far Trader _Mighty Joe_:)

Speculative trade, that's what we's call it. Go out past the frontier
with some stout mates and a hold 'o widgets, take some tinhorn
Emp'ror of some backwater dirtball for all he's worth. Logs? Ya,
we's keeps them, after a fashion...but routes and sightings for
the places what gives good gilt for our holdings, those I keeps right
here in my skull. No port dugger need see where we got these
pretties, and blab to the next sneak Kaptin what buys him a round.

My transponder? Ya, I have one. Maybe I score some class cargo,
can't sell it in my usual places, make more credits putting up with
nonsense at a fancyport. Switch the dam t'ing off more often than
not, why tell everyone "Here I am, come take my ship!"? My sensor
guy got eyes, he can watch scope and see other people coming,
why can't other guy do that too?

Port duggers no like the way I do t'ings, then hell with them. My ship,
my rules - they don't want dibs on this horde we bring back from the
Rim, next planet will. See that "Free" on front of "Trader"? It don't
mean no bank payments. It means I ain't no Vilani clock-puncher,
I go where it please me.

To dam many Kapitans out there wasting their life hauling boxes
from dullport to another and back again, follow every rule them
Impie goons write. Pfaugh!! Why they bother leaving atmosphere?

Ya, I steer clear of Impie ships more often than no. Too many got
funny ideas about who's rules we follow out here. Just in case you
forgot: when I'm flying my ship, I'm following my rules and t' blaze
with anyone tell me different!!

(editor's note: _Mighty Joe_ was posted as missing and presumed
lost on a speculative trade mission ten months after this interview.)


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:45:25 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: FW: Money (longish)

Greg asked me to forward this to the list from the private mail he sent me.

Walt (no relation) Smith

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Greg Smith [SMTP:montecristo@hotmail.com]
Sent:	Thursday, September 24, 1998 9:23 AM
To:	SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU
Subject:	Re: Money (longish)

>Subject: Money (longish)

Here's an extract from an article I compiled of what happens when you 
get in-system.  Some comes from people on the TML and some from a JTAS 
article.  I use this for money concerns with ships...

Greg

4.  Arranging Payments.  The ship will get a bill for berthing and 
inspection services, as well as any fines or fees for special cargos, 
use of loading/unloading equipment or crew (Union!), etc.  This will 
generally be charged against the ship's Account.  This may be a "cash" 
account at the local branch of the bank the characters use for their 
financial services (definitely for established trading companies on 
routes), an advance against an Imperial Credit Card (see below), or the 
ship may carry a letter of credit from the previous location.  Letters 
of credit are usually very difficult to forge, though if it is 
successfully forged, expect that the bank will likely catch up with the 
characters eventually.  The letter would be found in the SpA Packet 
(above).  The standard Imperial Credit Card may also be used to cover a 
bill.  

Also, ship payments are usually made at starports, in most cases 
electronically.  If a ship payment is due on 030-1107 and your ship is 
in port, the note holder will debit your account for the payment 
according to prior arrangements.  The ship's schedule becomes a matter 
of financial record also, and if your schedule says you were in 
jumpspace on the date payment was due, the bank will debit your account 
on the next possible date.  In all cases, your financial history and 
bank accounts will need to "follow you around" wherever you go.  Many 
schemes have been attempted to cheat the bank out of a payment or two, 
but most are detected and thwarted.  Banks are huge, networked bodies 
which keep duplicate records at every branch, and at affiliated banks.

As to cash, all ships carry some cash and generally draw petty cash 
against their accounts.  Some ships carry a lot of cash.  This may 
arouse suspicions, depending on the ship, and may generate unwanted 
inspections. 

Note: Most merchant ships carry a lot of cash, as do Mercenary Cruisers 
(in the form of CrImps, Corporate Bearer Bonds, Bank Letters of Credit, 
etc...).  Electronic credit is fine for a ship that just picks up cargo, 
but if one is speculating, you are paying cash on the barrel.  
Examples... 1) If you are running a route, you will meet your agent.  2) 
If you just pick up any cargo and passengers (standard rates) you can 
get away with advertising at the starport through the SpA.  3) If you 
are speculating, you might set up a meeting through a broker, or you 
will have to get out on the world and find the manufacturer or seller 
and verify the load.  Some of the larger brokerage houses will operate 
on  credit - but a small broker (i.e. Starport D-) will want and need 
liquid funds in order to facilitate the purchase.  And, as a starship 
owner, you want to know that a credit transfer will be accepted once 
it's validated at a major starport.  Cash is king.  Remember, Class D 
and E starports do not have the facilities of a Class A or B.

Note:  Hard currency is good for business, and can sometimes help bail 
you out of a difficult situation.  In every culture, there is an 
'underground economy' in illegal, unlawful, or simply unacceptable 
goods.  The Imperium has an interest in keeping this trade alive.  If 
its not done with Imperial currency it will be done with some other form 
of trade.  And as most adventurers know, you can't always count on the 
presence of an ATM when Guido the Killer Pimp is after you.  Sometimes 
you need cash so you can buy protection (a good slug-thrower) or your 
way out of a sticky encounter.

Note:  Imperial currency is great for high tech worlds, worlds with 
Class A or B starports, or worlds with a high Imperial presence 
(Sector/SubSector Capitals).  Get out onto the Starport E, TL-3 worlds 
though, and your Credit Card isn't going to do a lot of good.  Start 
dealing on the fringes of society, where it is important that a 
transaction NOT be traced, and cash becomes important.  Another good 
thing about cash is that you cannot void the transaction - once you have 
handed it over you have made a commitment that can be depended on.  Try 
and guarantee a mercenary contract with a charge card, or even a Credit 
Card, for instance, and you may find yourself in a bit of trouble.

Imperial Credit Cards and Banking or A Study in Currency:   Hard 
currency is necessary in the traveller universe for many reasons, a main 
one of which is complex communications.  In today's world, money can be 
transferred electronically between accounts, credit cards and such.  A 
"debit card" is all one really needs these days to purchase something.  
But, in the traveller universe, it is much more difficult to maintain 
interstellar bank accounts.  For example, if one were on Agidda/Sol-Rim 
and had an account on Terra/Sol-Rim (in the 1st Terra World Bank), you 
would have to wait 2 weeks to get large amounts of cash  (1 week jump to 
Terra to verify funds, 1 week back to Agidda).  Bookkeeping is a 
nightmare.

The largest financial institutions (Subsector and Sector institutions) 
maintain facilities on worlds with Class A and B starports.  An office 
can usually be found on worlds with Class C or D starports.  Financial 
data for these institutions is constantly updated through the x-boat 
network and data packets on ships with mail contracts.  Most firms have 
banking accounts with appropriately sized financial institutions.  Small 
trading firms (fledgling, interface, sub-sector lines) usually have 
accounts with several world banks or with the Subsector-wide 
institutions.  They would have letters of credit or separate accounts 
within the next Subsector.  Sector-wide lines and some Sub-sector lines 
have accounts with the Sector-wide institutions.  Megacorporations have 
accounts with the Sector-wide institutions and with Hortelez et Cie.  
Most megacorporations don't need letters of credit when dealing with 
Subsector or smaller institutions.

The bookkeeping problems are pretty much solved when you carry the 
Imperial Credit Card (Don't leave your ship without it--it's everywhere 
you want to be!).  Most Free Traders and wealthy individuals carry the 
Imperial Credit Card.  Most ship captains carry the Imperial Credit Card 
for ready access to cash.  The Imperial Credit Card is similar to a cash 
card, but instead of the card accessing an established local account, 
the financial data is physically stored on the card.  The card is 
actually a portable bank teller.  It contains a micro-processor unit 
which keeps track of the account contained, and solves the problem of 
having to report back to the bank the account balance status.  These 
Credit cards (as opposed to charge cards) are accepted at virtually any 
Class A or B starports and businesses at high tech worlds (TL 13+).  The 
Traveller's Aid Society accepts the Credit card at all its facilities 
throughout the Imperium for cash advances and other services.  Money can 
be transferred electronically in-system, between ships or between a ship 
and the starport for example.  Hard cash is still necessary for areas 
that don't except or have the ability to accept Credit cards.  One 
disadvantage to lower Tech Level Credit Account-type cards was 
tampering.  Individuals in some instances were able to "hack" into the 
card and increase the amount of money it contained.  Later developments 
made this kind of tampering a thing of the past.  Tampering requires at 
least an individual with Electronics-5 and Forgery-3, not to mention the 
millions of credits worth of rare electronic equipment.  Credit cards 
now blank themselves out or post a warning should an attempt be made to 
tamper with the contents.  Wealthy individuals, and most ship captains 
have multiple Credit cards and accounts should one card be stolen or 
disrupted.  A recent Credit Card study revealed it is easier to 
counterfeit hard currency and paper money than to hack a card. 

Additional Details: 

The ICC contains a thumb-print actuator.  Within is also contained a 
record of owner's retina print which is required for verification on all 
major (over Cr100,000) transactions with the card.  The cards a issued 
with variable "Credit" limits, usually 1,000 - 10,000 for local users, 
and Cr25,000, Cr50,000, Cr100,000, Cr250,000 and Cr500,000 for ship 
captains/travellers.

The iridium edition of the ICC is available only to millionaires and 
contains the owner's DNA code allowing for positive identification and 
practically unlimited reliability of credit.  Even starships have been 
purchased with this edition card.

The Traveller's Aid Society issues, for a modest Cr10,000 lifetime fee, 
a similar TAS services card.  Zirunkarish (the banking megacorporation) 
charges a 1% fee which is deducted upon "crediting" for both editions of 
the card.

The cards are made of plasteel and are virtually indestructible.  The 
loss or accidental destruction of these cards can be somewhat of an 
administrative hassle.  When a loss is reported, the responsible 
financial institution issues a credit update notice which goes out over 
X-boat carrier or other mail couriers.  Steps are taken locally to 
minimize financial loss.  Each bank sets  individual limits on liability 
of a lost or stolen card.

The card with its transaction information is useless until the process 
of verification is complete.  This is based upon the span of use for the 
card in the user's transaction history.  If the transaction records 
support the lack of extensive travel in recent times, the process of 
account verification is relatively quick.  If records support extensive 
travel by the card-holder, the process of verification takes longer.  
[In any event, the verification process time is equal to approximately 
three times the normal communications time across the established area 
of travel, the Imperium being the maximum region of access.  The maximum 
period of verification in the Imperium is 7 years.  

>
>


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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:56:49 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Life Support Breakdowns (Was Re: Piracy!)

In mail Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>If anyone is *really* interested, I could try to work up some possible
>failures and consequences for some life support systems. Heck, maybe I
>should try writing my own version of "Starship Operator's Manual" and
>related books.

Please do!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:09:46 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Counting in Hexidecimal (was: Re: Metric and GT)

>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
>Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>OTOH, I would expect that the system used in the 3I is a 
>decimal-based one, as humaniti is geared toward base-10 number 
>systems.  Using metric, the decimal-based system used throughout 

Hexidecimal people.  Base F.  1-F.

That's the case when developing UPPs.  If that's the base, then, when 
you count, what do you call "B"?  How about "B" + "B"?

So does:

A= "Aten"   or  "Aye"
B= "Beten" or  "Bee"
C= "Seeten" or "See"
D= "Deten" or  "Dee"    
E= "Eeten" or  "E"
F= "Feten" or  "Ef"

Then, "10" or "ten" should be F+1, "11" should be F+2, thirteen should 
be F+4, right?

Should "Twenty" be (F+1) * 2?  So you should have numbers like 2A, which 
in base 10 would be a quantity of....44?.  Starships cost a lot more in 
Hexidecimal....

I'm tired of thinking about it.  I'll stay decimal...

The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com


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End of Traveller-digest V1998 #846
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 847



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Ship's Business (was re: Transponders)
How do I subscribe to the xboat list?
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Tamperproof
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
The Azhanti Inquistion (was Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.)
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Transponders
Traveller Text Adventure
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: How do I subscribe to the xboat list?
Re: Imperial Calendar (was Metric and GT)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Revised Psionic Institutes Checklist

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:14:05 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

steve daniels wrote:

> Erwin Fritz wrote:
> > The officer safety classes for the police here in Calgary teach that, if you
> > haven't drawn your weapon, and you're facing a man with a knife who is within 30
> > feet of you, you're in deep trouble. Your opponent will be able to close and
> > attack before your gun will clear its holster.
>
> That conclusion is fine.  But . . .
>
> Would you be able to pull a sword in time?  A knife?  An axe?
> I think the situation you describe means that pulling _any_ weapon is
> going to sacrifice real initiative to the knife-wielder.  IMHO, you'd be
> better off _not_ going for you weapon.

I agree completely. If the knife-wielder has the weapon out, and you don't, and he's
that close, you're wasting valuable time going for your weapon. Better to use your
bare hands.

> Actually, I think a good way to test a fighting system might be to
> compare the effects for dissimilarly equipped opponents.
> For example, take someone trained in martial arts against someone
> trained in knife, both with average stats.  Then a person untrained in
> knife.  IMUO (In My Uninformed Opinion), won't the martial artist
> be on equal footing with the trained knife fighter and have the advantage
> against the untrained knife fighter, since most martial arts spend some
> training in disarming such fighter.  It seems to me that the only significant
> difference would be in the damage inflicted in the trained vs. trained.

I practise Jiu-Jitsu, and we have moves designed to counter knife attacks from your
average yokel. Most of the time it's a straightforward procedure, because the guy will
lead with the knife hand. As you pointed out, a well-trained knife fighter will save
his knife for when he can inflict a single, decisive strike. No matter how good an
unarmed person is at martial arts, I'd place the bet there on the serious knife
fighter.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:51:37 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Ship's Business (was re: Transponders)

Christopher Thrash postulated:
<snip>
>In fact, the transponder is but one piece of a complex of paperwork and
>records surrounding the day-to-day operations of a normal working
>freighter.  How feasible you want piracy and skipping to be in your
>universe is adjustable by varying how carefully this paperwork is checked,
>and how far the information is shared.
<snip of some great details!>

Good job, Christopher! I never did like the "does it all" transponders
from TNE. Your post just became one of the main background/tech briefs
in my MT campaign.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:03:18 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: How do I subscribe to the xboat list?

How do I subscribe to the xboat list?  I have tried the method suggested in
the FAQ but the auto responder gives me the error the xboat does not exist.
I sent the command for the list of lists and xboat or xtml is not on the
list.  Is there a different list server for the xboat list?  If so what is
the subscribe email address?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:12:52 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Antti Lahtinen posted:
>
>While using double-edged blade I prefer quarter-sabre grip
>with leading knife-hand and lower fencing position. From
>quarter-sabre it is possible to make extremely fast and
>lethal thrust/rip attacks.
>
>With a Tanto I prefer the neko-stance with either straight
>grip with leading knife-hand or reverse blade and leading
>off-hand. In these positions (especially with reverse blade)
>the off-hand is used to check the arm of incoming knife-hand
>and guide it against my own blade.
<snip>
>In Tantojutsu the basic idea is to cause permanent, disabling
>damage as fast as possible and move to the next target. After
>the first succesful attack one should be able to disengage the
>opponents and leave him to die.
<snip>

Ookaay! Let's all remember not to make Antti angry. ;-)

Seriously though, this leads me to a point I've been
wrestling with for about a month now. Has anyone considered
modifying damage done by melee weapons based on the skill
level of the wielder? It seems to me that a high skill level
would not only allow the highly skilled character to make a
higher chance of making a successful attack but could also
allow the attack to be more effective.

Any thoughts on this, anyone?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:42:39 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net> wrote:

> So, anyone want to figure out some new FF&S rules so we can slap these
> babies on our TL-8 Freighters?
>
> I'll start the ball rolling with these facts:
> it produces 92mN using 2.3kw of power and 20mN using 0.5kw of power
> this factors to 40mN per kw.
>
> It also uses 110kg of liquid gasses for reaction mass. 28kg of hydrazine
> and 82kg of xenon.  Duration and fuel consumption are not mentioned. 

That's specific impulse, 3100 seconds at peak power (92 mN/2.3 kW) and 
1900 seconds at minimum power (20 mN/0.5 kW).  The ion drive is more
efficient at high power than at low.  They mention elsewhere that they
could increase thrust more with a larger solar panel, but this would be
at the cost of increasing vehicle mass of course.

If I remember right, this means a kilogram of fuel provides 9.8 N of 
thrust for 3100 seconds; or 10 grams of fuel provide 98 mN of thrust
for 3100 seconds; that's about 10 grams of fuel providing full thrust
for an hour.  At 82 kg of xenon fuel for the ion drive, we get about
8200 hours (342 days) duration at full thrust.  

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:48:11 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

>Seriously though, this leads me to a point I've been
>wrestling with for about a month now. Has anyone considered
>modifying damage done by melee weapons based on the skill
>level of the wielder? It seems to me that a high skill level
>would not only allow the highly skilled character to make a
>higher chance of making a successful attack but could also
>allow the attack to be more effective.
>
>Any thoughts on this, anyone?

A task system should not only check for success or failure, it should also
measure the degree of success/failure and the probabilities of exceptional
success/spectacular failure should depend on task level vs skill. Then it
is easy to make rules for exceptional success giving more damage no matter
if it came from easy task (target asleep), high skill or just luck.

Use MT task system but change the level of an exceptional success to say +5
above the required roll (instead of +2 as was the case if I remember
correctly).
An exceptional success might let the attacker roll damage twice and take
the highest and marginal success might roll twice and take the worst.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:09:32 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Tamperproof

>"Tamperproof". Interesting word. Kind of reminds me of another word...
>"Unsinkable".  <Cut to exciting footage from _Titanic_>

Actually, the ship was billed as "virtually unsinkable", but the
advertising chaps left out "virtually".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:22:44 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> writes:
>Basically if you have to use metrics they will become your intuitive
>standard.

Dunno about that. However, one of my kids today coverted 12 feet into a
yard! 

It seems to have taken most of a generation to change in Canada.  Some
parts still haven't totally, especially where Imperial units are simpler
because of pre-existing conditions. For example, land surveyed in sections
means farmers still talk in section, because the numbers are simpler. Mind
you, they also use hectares as well. Many of my generation mix-and-match
units, often in the same measurement ("I'll take an inch to four
centimeteres, please.").

Somewhere in my 20s I lost my 'feel' for Imperial units, and now have to
convert to metric before things make sense. SO I guess repeated use has
converted me. (Plus not having to do compound addition!)


>Not really. Weights and measures don't evolve as such. They either
>survive 
>pretty much intact or are totally replaced. The whole point of weights
>and 
>measures is to give certainty, the mile has remained constant for over
>1000 
>years.

Actually, weights and measures have differed quite a bit throughout
history, and they do evolve. A Roman mile is not the same thing as an
Imperial mile (although I think that an Imperial mile and an American mile
are the same thing).

A classic example is the American gallon. At the time of teh American
Rebellion, Britain had at least two gallons. The American colonial
merchants started using the smaller wine gallon for everything (not just
wine) - incidentally concealing a price increase.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:51:04 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: The Azhanti Inquistion (was Re: Canon, Canon Everywhere, and Not a Drop to Drink.)

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>, or as I like to call him, "Pansie" wrote
> > > >> That may be the case - have a look in the book when your author's 
> > > >> copy arrives - the RCCS is nestling there, right next to the 
> > > >> picture of...could it be the Azhanti Inquistion?
> > > >But no one expects [GAK] . . . .
> > No one expects the Azhanti Inquisition, our two main weapons are; 
> > Surprise, Fear, & Fusion Guns....  No, wait a minute that's three, OK, 
> > our three main weapons are; Surprise, Fear, Fusion Guns, & Spinal 
> > Mounts...  No, hold on...  Our Four Main Weapons are; Surprise, Fear, 
> > Fusion Guns, Spinal Mounts, & Deep Meson Sites...
> But what about your fanatical devotion to the Emperor?
> Ah, amongst our many weapons are Surprise, Fear, Fusion Weapons, Spinal
> Mounts, Depp Meson Sites, and our almost fanatical devotion to the
> Emperor.

(Depp Meson Sites?  Do they own places like the Viper Room & star in 21
Jump Street?)

Then our five main weapons are:  Surprise, Fear, Fusion Weapons, Spinal
Mounts, Deep Meson Sites, Jump Drives, and our almost fanatical devotion to
the Emperor.

Now hold on a minute, our six main weapons are:  Surprise, Fear, Fusion
Weapons, Spinal Mounts, Deep Meson Sites,  Jump Drives, and our almost
fanatical devotion to the Emperor.

Wait a minute, our seven main weapons are:  Surprise, Fear, Fusion Weapons,
Spinal Mounts, Deep Meson Sites, the Pirate Thread, Jump Drives, and our
almost fanatical devotion to the Emperor.

OK, OK, our eight main weapons are:  Surprise, Fear, Fusion Weapons, Spinal
Mounts, Deep Meson Sites, the Pirate Thread, Near C Rocks, Jump Drives, and
our almost fanatical devotion to the Emperor.

That was nine was it not?  Our nine main weapons are:  Surprise, Fear,
Laser Turrets, Fusion Weapons, Spinal Mounts, Deep Meson Sites, the Pirate
Thread, Near C Rocks, Jump Drives, and our almost fanatical devotion to the
Emperor.

<Legate Counts up what he has just said.  Shakes his head & goes.>

Our main weapons are to many to count, but they include:  Surprise, Fear,
Laser Turrets, Fusion Weapons, Spinal Mounts, Deep Meson Sites, the Pirate
Thread, Near C Rocks, Jump Drives, Laser Det Missiles, and our almost
fanatical devotion to the Emperor.

Now give them...
.
.
.
.
 ..the comfy chair.

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
Cult 'O Gabe's Holy Avenger in charge of Military Afairs
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"The system does not matter, its ROLE-Playing that matters." - Me to
Acid_Blue, Chuckles, & Rob the Lumberjackman.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

steve daniels writes:
> Umm, isn't that going to be a bit crowded with
> 0.026 tons cargo per person?
> 
> I think you've made a typo or left something out.  By starting with
> 1,000,000 tons that you list, and subtracting all the things you list
> with volume, I get 0.63 tons per person.  Thats before subtracting
> volume for helpar and contragrav drives, jump drive, power plant,
> computers, small craft and hangars, airlocks, low berths, labs
> and shops, fuel purifiers,  (you put scoops on a ship this big?),
> and AG/Compensators.
Hm...people should bear in mind how _large_ a traveller ton is.  If we assume
.3 meters between decks and .2 meters between walls and a clearance of 2
meters, we get a room which is roughly 2 meters high x 2 meters wide x 2.8
meters long; given that we are packing people in, we can do a floor setup with
two bunks at each end (each one has .8 meters of clearance above it, and is .9
meters wide), low drawers (4 per side, each 1m x .9 meters x .2 meters) beneath
the lower bunk, and a one meter wide walkway between beds.  If you're willing
to be really excessive add a half-meter deep set of shelves between the beds,
this still leaves a 1.5 meter x 1 meter open space in the middle of the room,
and gives a total of 2.44 cubic meters of stowage in the room.  0.61 cubic
meters of storage will allow an ordinary person to store around 200 kilograms
of personal gear, which is plenty (compared to some modern ships, particularly
submersibles, this is spacious).  Tossing in narrow corridors (figure slightly
over a meter wide, with rooms on both sides) we increase the volume of the room
by about a third -- which means that in our stowage area we are storing 3
people per displacement ton, and the waste space I specify around rooms is
sufficient to easily account for life support requirements.

Now, if we're willing to drop down to 2 people per displacement ton, we have an
additional 3.5 m^3 per person.  We will use this in part for a mess room
(assume shifts, no more than 1/4 of people are in the room at a time) with a
total of 7 m^3 per occupant (gives about 3 m^2 floor space per occupant, of
which about 1 m^2 is for the food preparation area) plus an exercise area with
similar size.

This isn't exactly _comfortable_, but it's believable for transporting people
for some weeks, and would seem roomy to people on sailing ships from before the
late 19th century.
Now, we add in a mess room (figure 2 m^3 per person) 
Now, add in half this volume in 'open space', primar

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

Colin Hutchinson writes:
> A few more thoughts on damage from radiation.  If these neutrons and gamma
> rays reach the (shielded poewrplant) and penetrate then there is the danger
> of melt down or worse.  given that energy doubling takes only tiny
> fractions of a second, the reactor may well melt down, or if ecited enough
> actually go critical.  Since the shiled will be warm anyway, the sudden
> influx of heat build up may cause structural failure of the reactors
> containment facility.  If I can work out the details I will post the
> results. 

That's fairly easy.  There will be zero effect on fusion reactors unless
there's enough power to vaporize the ship.  There will be no significant effect
on fission reactors unless the neutron flux is sufficient to kill the entire
crews within hours, and even then the only effect will be some slight increase
in temperature, possibly with an automatic shutdown via insertion of cooling
rods.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:50:17 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

One problem is using the emergency low berths instead of regular low
berths. Regular ones take up more room; emergency ones are exactly that,
emergency ones, and are intended (at least IMTU) to be transported
directly to a medical facility to 'defrost' the occupants where the
specialized emergency care is immediately available, whereas  regular
low berths can be manages in situ, with the proper medical supervision.

I know there are lots of times in canon where people are raised by
themselves out of emergency low berths; there is an apallingly high
failure rate associated with them under those conditions.

You also have only 37 medical personell to deal with a _million_ people
in the low berths...waaaay too few. They'll be taking people out of low
berth for _decades_

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:04:48 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

>Antti Lahtinen posted:
>>
>>While using double-edged blade I prefer quarter-sabre grip
>>with leading knife-hand and lower fencing position. From
>>quarter-sabre it is possible to make extremely fast and
>>lethal thrust/rip attacks.
>>
>>With a Tanto I prefer the neko-stance with either straight
>>grip with leading knife-hand or reverse blade and leading
>>off-hand. In these positions (especially with reverse blade)
>>the off-hand is used to check the arm of incoming knife-hand
>>and guide it against my own blade.
><snip>
>>In Tantojutsu the basic idea is to cause permanent, disabling
>>damage as fast as possible and move to the next target. After
>>the first succesful attack one should be able to disengage the
>>opponents and leave him to die.
><snip>


When fighting an experienced bladesman (Note: some people only regard
bladesmen as persons who are experienced in the use of pointy objects 6" or
longer, who have portions of their living area devoted to the care and
maintenance of said pointy objects, or who devote large portions of their
spendable income in the pursuit of said objects.  I personally say that if
you can whittle a branch without drawing your own blood - you qualify.), I
generally prefer to use a rifle.  The range can be as short as, say, from
across the street, but I would really prefer it to be from the top of a
large building.

Some would say that artillery barrages or B-52 strikes are the only suitable
defense against a truly competent bladesman.  While there is merit in that
position, especially when the person in question is versed in a any of the
martial arts, there are too many historical precedences for individuals to
come through these events, largely unharmed (Note: some would say that
'versed' means the person has received years of training.  I OTOH take the
position that if you have ever watched a Jackie Chan movie, you are too
dangerous to live.)  I personally believe that by taking the simple
precaution of not warning the potential aggressor of the upcoming conflict,
a heavy machine gun should be more than adequate.  Remember to always check
your opponent for signs of life before you leave, preferably with the 9mm
pistol.  Often, your opponent may have surrounded himself with others, which
can hamper this vital life sign check.  I find that grenades will often
supply a suitable distraction, especially when the event in question is a
wedding, birthday party, baptism or school play.

For the inexperienced knife-fighter, and whatever witnesses that may be
accessible, a shotgun is suitable.

If I should find myself with the prospect of facing a gunmen, my preferred
weapon would be mercenaries.

:^)

douglas 'invincible overlord' glatz

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/overlord
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:21:11 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

> 	I have some questions about how transponders might work.  Do they
> have their own transmitter, or do they use one of the ship's regular commo
> channels?  Further, what kind of transmitter would be appropriate for a
> transponder? 

Survival Margin (pg 69-70) says the transponder system has full access to the
comm system.  First, they needed to be "frequency agile" and used whatever
comm system or frequency was currently needed and not otherwise in use.  They
are constantly broadcasting and receiving information when in normal space.
The "squawk" is for the benefit of the ships crew, and it gives the details
and particulars of the broadcasting vessel.  Two, the transponder system also
had full acess to and from the ships main computer core and databanks.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:32:23 -0400
From: Daniel Mendyke <Daniel.Mendyke@digital.com>
Subject: Traveller Text Adventure

Would someone email me the URL for the Traveller Text Advertures.
Talking about Green House effect has me very interested in reading them.

Daniel

daniel@virtualvoices.com
http://www.virtualvoices.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:46:16 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      In reply to the numerous posts on Transponders, there is of couser a
> very simple way to solve your pirates problems in this regards.  They just
> remove the transponder unit from a ship they have taken (not in any shape
> to fly, OOPS) and install it in there own ship.  They hit the system at 100
> diameters play the false beacon and then look for a ship to hit.  The
> system will of course record the beacon and the actions that the owners of
> that beacon took, but hey you're just going to use another beacon next week
> why worry about the cops.
> 

You know...this is _exactly_ why the Imperium came up with the
semi-sentient Deyo chip transponders. These transponders will happily
chatter on to each other..."Oh yes and last week they took me out of the
"Shelbourne", that merchant that disappeared, and put me here, so I'm
supposed to tell you I'm the "Shelbourne" but this ship is really the
"Tommy Loy", and the original captain, Old Eneri, skipped on the
payments in 986 and sold me to Captain Bligh, who hasn't had annual
maintence in three years, and..."

They were unforgeable, because no one but the Imperium had a supply of
deyo chips, and those were taught, not programmed.  99% of this chatter
was just the chips talking to each other to keep themselves up to date. 

While with lots of creative programming, wiring (and a dump of the
Shelbourne's main data banks) you could transplant an ersatz copy of the
"Shelbourne" into the Shelbourne's transponder's 'reality' space, making
it think it _was_ still the Shelbourne, but that would be a lot of work,
and the transponder would still know that it was shut off for a period
of time not scheduled in the Shelbourne's main computers. A far more
delicate sort of operation would be to make the cutover unnoticed by the
transponder...

A lot depends on how much memory is allocated to the deyo chip within
the sealed transponder box. At Deyo transponder TL's a heck of a lot of
memory could be in there. 

Of course, this is a presupposing that you actually knew that the
transponder was anything but a relatively sophisticated 'squawk-box'. 
IIRC the true nature of the Deyo transponders was a rather closely
guarded secret.

Of course, there's the flip side to this...to keep the nature of the
deyo chips secret, you can't use 90% of the information you could get
out of them, much like Britain's quandaries with the Ultra data duroing
WWII. As the Ultra group got better and better at decoding Enigma
ciphered messages, it got harder and harder to use the intel without
giving away that they'd broken Enigma. A standing rule was that any
intel shared widely had to appear to have come from other sources such
as live assets, or en-clair radio intercepts. 

They went to great lengths to hide the true source of stuff they gave
the US for instance, so much so that for years after the war, (until
Ultra was declassified, in fact) the british were credited for having a
far better live intelligence apparatus in Europe than they actually did.
In fact, the majority of operatives on the ground in Europe were
captured within a short time. IIRC the operational (and real lifespan,
in most cases) lifetime of ground agents was measured in days and weeks.
The Nazis had a very efficient network of radio DF stations that could
pinpoint radio transmissions in a relatively short period of time.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:01:03 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: How do I subscribe to the xboat list?

 
> How do I subscribe to the xboat list?  I have tried the method suggested in

The Xboat list no longer exists.

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:07:22 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial Calendar (was Metric and GT)

> My point is that it adds to the background to assume that they do. Like the
365
> day year. Just why does the 3rd Imperium use a 365 day year? The "real"
> answer is that it makes the game a whole lot more playable; but the "game"
> answer is that Sylea just happens to have a 365 day year too (365.04 days
> IIRC from the TD it was covered in). Its little details like that which set
Traveller
> apart in my mind.

24 hour rotation and 364.97 revolution, according to Rats & Cats.   An
amazingly Earth-like world.  What a coincidence. : )  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:11:13 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Stuart L. Dollar <sdollar@goodnet.com> writes,
> Doug refers specifically to the Anti-Psionics point of view.  One of 
> the things I wasted a lot of time on studying in my misspent youth 
> was propaganda, especially that of Nazi Germany.
>
> Basically, I tried to write the piece from the point of view of a 
> flaming fringe group that would react to psionics in the same 
> manner as the Nazis did to Jews, or as you see in the extreme 
> cases on both sides of the abortion debate, or gun control, or 
> animal rights, or any other emotionally charged topic.
>
> In retrospect, I think I went too far.  I think it loses some of its 
> effectiveness by not doing good enough of a job of being persuasive 
> to a reasonable person.  It certainly does make the extreme anti-
> psionics camp look scary, which was the goal.

I agree with this.  I tried to present a less obviously extreme view in
my "Psionics & Society: Right of Reply" article (July 97), but even so
someone praised me for making it sound like an anti-Semitic rant (which
wasn't my intention)!  It's very difficult to come up with reasonable-
sounding arguments for a position you oppose, which is a shame because
it's the very rationality of these arguments that make them much more
dangerous...

If anybody wants to see the article, mail me.  If anyone has some
*properly reasoned* arguments against psionics, please post them - the
pro-psionic bias in the book (and in the way I presented my article,
unfortunately) is obvious, which isn't how things always work in real
life.

[Incidentally, I rate PI my third-favourite Imperium Games product,
 behind Pocket Empires and Milieu 0 Campaign.]

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:13:24 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Revised Psionic Institutes Checklist

While we're discussing Psionic Institutes, here's the final revision of
my PI checklist.  Joe Walsh and Suzette Dollar were going to produce
this for GenCon 97, but I guess they ran out of time.

- -8<-------------------------------------------------------------------
PSIONIC INSTITUTES CHECKLIST
John G. Wood

This is a checklist for Psionic Institute generation, including a few
ideas of my own.  New or modified stages are marked with a *.  As
always, GM fiat should be used instead of random rolls whenever desired.

All page numbers refer to Psionic Institutes, which is required to make
use of this.


WORLD DETERMINATION:

 1.   Pick a world, or roll up a UWP.

 2.   Roll 2D-2 for UAP (pp.15-16).

*3.   If Pocket Empires is available, determine Plurality of Opinion:

        (2D + Unity - Self-Determination + 8) / 2

      This gives a result in the range 0 to 19.

        0-3:   Almost everybody agrees with the UAP.
        4-6:   There are a number of minority groups with differing
               opinions, but they have little influence or popular
               support.
        7-10:  Different pressure groups represent a wide range of
               opinions.
        11-13: The population is severely divided on the issue of
               Psionics.
        14+:   There is almost no agreement.  The UAP represents at best
               an average, but is likely to vary depending on the survey
               methods used.

*4.   Determine presence of Psionic Institutes (p.17).  Roll 2D for each
      type (Commercial, Educational and Government Institutions, plus
      Secret Societies) and compare against the target number in the Law
      Level/UAP Matrix.  Modifiers to target number:
        CI or EI: +1 if HiPop, -1 if LoPop.
        GI:       +1 if Government type A+.

      Note the margin of success for each type found to exist (for
      example, rolling 3 against a target number of 5 yields a margin of
      2).

*5.   Determine the number of Institutes.  For each type of Institute
      represented on the world, roll 2D and add the margin:

           -7:  1 Institute.
         8-12:  2 Institutes.
        13-15:  1D+1 Institutes.
        16-19:  1D+2 Institutes.
          20+:  2D+1 Institutes


INSTITUTE DETERMINATION:

 6.   Generate the UID and Specials (pp.18-20):

   a. Student Population Digit (SP, p.18).  Roll 2D-7+UWP Population
      Digit and consult the table.

   b. Student to Instructor Rating (IR, p.18).  Roll 2D + 3 - SP.
      Modifiers:
        CI: -2
        EI: +1
        SS: +2
      Limit to range 0-10.

   c. Amenities Rating (AM, p.18).  Roll 2D -2.  Modifiers:
        CI: -2
        GI: -1
        EI: +1
      Limit to range 0-10.

   d. Overall Quality (QI, p.19).  Roll 2D - 5 + [(IR+AM)/2].
      Modifiers:
        CI: -2
        EI: +2
        SS: +2
      Limit to range 0-15 and consult the table.


*  e. Special Ability.  Roll 2D.  On a 12, the Institute teaches a
      special ability - roll one die twice on the Special Ability Matrix
      (p.22) to determine which.

*  f. Number of Departments (ND, p.19).  Roll 1D - 1.  Modifiers:
        CI: -2
        EI: +2
        SS: -1
      If the Institute teaches a Special Ability, a roll of 0 or less
      means it is the only ability taught.  Otherwise, limit to range
      1-5.

      Roll one die ND times on the discipline table.  Modifier:
        CI: -1

   g. Quality of Individual Departments (p.19).  Roll 2D for each
      existing department.  Don't forget the Special Ability Department
      if one exists.  Modifiers:
        CI: -1
        EI: +1
        SS: -2
      Limit to range 2-12 and consult the rating table.

 7.   Determine tuition cost (p.21).  Roll 2D + QI -2.  Modifiers:
        CI: +1
        GI: -1
      Limit to range 0-15 and consult the table.  Note: applicants with
      Admin skill will pay less (minimum Cr10,000).

*8.   Determine number of campuses.  Look up the appropriate type and
      SP, and roll 2D.  A roll of equal to or lower than the number on
      the matrix indicates more than one campus. A "---" indicates
      combinations that don't exist, or that are always confined to a
      single campus.

        Type/SP Matrix:
             SP0  SP1  SP2  SP3  SP4  SP5  SP6
        --------------------------------------
         CI  ---   6-   7-   8-   9-  10-  11-
         EI  ---  ---   2-   3-   4-   5-   6-
         GI  ---   3-   4-   5-   6-   7-   8-
         SS  ---   4-   5-   6-   7-  ---  ---

      If more than one campus is found to exist, add 1D to the amount by     
      which the roll succeeded:

          1-4:  2 campuses.
          5-6:  1D+1 campuses.
          7-8:  1D+2 campuses.
         9-10:  2D+1 campuses.
        11-13:  1D*5 campuses.
        14-15:  2D*5 campuses.

 9.   Write Institute History.

10.   Write Institute Physical Description.

11.   Determine Notable Faculty Members.
- -8<-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope its useful to someone - I'm not entirely happy with the method of
determining number of institutes/number of campuses, but what the
heck...
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #847
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 848



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: MT Hand to Hand
auction notice
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Counterfeiting - re: Money in Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #843
Re: Transponder's true nature
1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Polls (was-Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:24:42 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:29:16 +1200, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>Since they were convinced that is was necessary to be in step with
>>the majority of the world.  The rule of Man presuposes that a small
>>minority will make a population give up an existing system of
>>measurement and retool just because they say so....

>No the general population in these countries was at best ambivelant to the
>changes and there was considerable resistance. The change occured because
>it was imposed from above.

The I don't agree.  Even many of those who opposed the change saw that
there was some justification (but felt is wasn't worth the trouble).
(I think, in Canada, the idea that it would also help set them apart
from the US also helped :-).  It was a policy that had implimentation
at most levels of government.

The rule of man sometimes consisted of no more than one lone Terran
leutenant showing up to rule an entire system.  He then has the
entire population retool their entire industry for no real good
reason?

>>Why?  Is would make more sense, efficiencywise, for the Terrans
>>to adopt the system the Vilani were using.

>No, they have their own infrastructure based on Terran standards

And infrastructure that is only a fraction of the size of the Vilani
Empire.  Suppose we wanted to have everyone in the world drive
on the same side of the road?  Would the entire world switch to
to driving on the left to match Japan and England?  Or would
it be the other way around?

>>It has to survive several millenia intact.  The odds of it evolving
>>to a new system are good.
>
>Not really. Weights and measures don't evolve as such. They either survive
>pretty much intact or are totally replaced. The whole point of weights and
>measures is to give certainty, the mile has remained constant for over 1000
>years.

Not true.  But the point that they are also replaced completely is
another source of change.  There is not a single unit of measurement
today that is the same as it was even _one_ melennium ago, let along
several.

>>Now if you want to assume it happens, it isn't outside the realm
>>of possibility, but my point is that this is hardly the obvious
>>choice for a believable background.

>My point is that it adds to the background to assume that they do.

To you.  This is a subjective perference.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:37:13 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 02:20 PM 9/24/98 +0100, you wrote:

>The system was designed to catch snipers in an urban warfare enviroment.
>You come accross a sniper, you but the sensors around the place, you get
>the sniper to shoot something, and then you level the building with a
>millan that is attached to the sensors.

As a trained sniper, I'd shoot one guy, then move and pick off the troops
setting up the sensors.  Also, I'd carry a long string of firecrackers to
confuse the issue.  Also, snipers don't hang around large concentrations of
enemy soldiers for long.  We'll take one or two shots, try to take out a
leader, then move to our next firing position.

Contrary to Hollywood, snipers rarely climb trees or hide in church
steeples.  Those locations, while providing excellent visibility, are damn
hard to get out of when you are located, and plunging shots are the
hardest.  You'll be more likely to find a sniper shooing from a basement
window or coal chute.

>I'm not sure which armed forces it was designed for but probably the US.
>The sensors were designed to discriminate, and only pick up gunfire.

The Redwood City, Ca, Police Department ran a test of the system a few
years ago.  The system couldn't distinguish between cars backfiring and gun
shots.  After several thousand false alarms, the test was cancelled.

A more promising system is a low-powered radar that tracks bullets back to
their point of origin.  Link that to a minigun.  Pureed Sniper.

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:47:39 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Anders Backman posted: 
>
>A task system should not only check for success or failure, it should also
>measure the degree of success/failure and the probabilities of exceptional
>success/spectacular failure should depend on task level vs skill. Then it
>is easy to make rules for exceptional success giving more damage no matter
>if it came from easy task (target asleep), high skill or just luck.
>
>Use MT task system but change the level of an exceptional success to say +5
>above the required roll (instead of +2 as was the case if I remember
>correctly).
>An exceptional success might let the attacker roll damage twice and take
>the highest and marginal success might roll twice and take the worst.

Thank you!  I'll take a swing at it tonight. (pun!)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> writes:

> Erwin Fritz wrote:
        [snip]
> > The officer safety classes for the police here in Calgary teach that,
> > if you haven't drawn your weapon, and you're facing a man with a knife
> > who is within 30 feet of you, you're in deep trouble. Your opponent
> > will be able to close and attack before your gun will clear its holster.
> 
> That conclusion is fine.  But . . .
> 
> Would you be able to pull a sword in time?  A knife?  An axe?
> I think the situation you describe means that pulling _any_ weapon is
> going to sacrifice real initiative to the knife-wielder.  IMHO, you'd be
> better off _not_ going for your weapon.

Not necessarily.  The "Tueller Drill" (which is what Erwin is describing)
demonstrates that, on average, an attacker with a knife can close 7m
and attack in ~2.0 sec.  It takes an armed defender ~2.5 sec. to
recognize the threat, draw a concealed sidearm, and fire 2 shoots.
(This, of course, assumes the defender is well-trainied.)

As a trained firearms instructor, my personal response time is ~2.2 sec.
If I use a Bill Jordan "Speed Rock", I can consistantly get my time
below 2.0 secs.  (The "Speed Rock" involves drawing and firing from
the hip, with the arm locked tightly against the body, rather than
raising the arm to eye-level and using the sights.)  Since an attacker
is almost at contact distance by the time the sidearm is ready, using
the "Speed Rock" and sacrificing a sight-picture is not much of a
handicap.

Clearly, if a person is less qualified with a firearm, and has some
moderate skill in a martial art or some form of hand-to-hand combat,
it might be better to not attempt a weapon draw at all.  However, with
proper training, and *CONSTANT* practice, it can be done.

BTW, for those of you that are handgun shooters, here's a way to test
whether our not you can beat the knife wielder.  (Get two friends to
help you with this.)

Go to your local outdoor pistol range and set up one human silhouette
target at 7 meters.  Give one friend a whistle and have the other
friend stand 7 meteres away from you on the firing line, on your
"off" side (the side away from your holstered sidearm.)

                               [--] Silhouette target
                                 |
                                 |
                                7m
                                 |
                                 |
   ---------------------------------------- Firing Line
                               you
        friend2<------7m------>
                       friend1 w/ whistle

Make sure your sidearm is concealed (wear an open coat or sweatshirt
that hangs over the holster and hides it.

Without warning, the first friend blows the whistle.  The second friend
begins running towards you while you draw and shoot the target.  If
your second friend manages to tap your off shoulder before you have
fired, you've just been "knifed".

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:21:35 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@itds.com>
Subject: auction notice

I've got a boxed set of Classic Traveller, 2nd edition rulebooks (1981).
Box is roughed up a little, but the books are in mint condition.
I'm looking for a minimum bid of $10.00.

I've also got a Very good condition "Double Adventure 5", minimum $3.00.


DonM.
- --
==========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist             dmckinne@itds.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems           (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                           (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXVI Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 5-7, 1999 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org     (217) 469-9917 = 
==========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:28:58 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 11:37 AM 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 02:20 PM 9/24/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>The system was designed to catch snipers in an urban warfare enviroment.
>>You come accross a sniper, you but the sensors around the place, you get
>>the sniper to shoot something, and then you level the building with a
>>millan that is attached to the sensors.
>
>As a trained sniper, I'd shoot one guy, then move and pick off the troops
>setting up the sensors.  Also, I'd carry a long string of firecrackers to
>confuse the issue.  Also, snipers don't hang around large concentrations of
>enemy soldiers for long.  We'll take one or two shots, try to take out a
>leader, then move to our next firing position.
>
>Contrary to Hollywood, snipers rarely climb trees or hide in church
>steeples.  Those locations, while providing excellent visibility, are damn
>hard to get out of when you are located, and plunging shots are the
>hardest.  You'll be more likely to find a sniper shooing from a basement
>window or coal chute.
>
>>I'm not sure which armed forces it was designed for but probably the US.
>>The sensors were designed to discriminate, and only pick up gunfire.
>
>The Redwood City, Ca, Police Department ran a test of the system a few
>years ago.  The system couldn't distinguish between cars backfiring and gun
>shots.  After several thousand false alarms, the test was cancelled.
>
>A more promising system is a low-powered radar that tracks bullets back to
>their point of origin.  Link that to a minigun.  Pureed Sniper.

Here is a link from one of the Morrow Project sites where Art Whitney did a
brief write-up of one such system.

http://www.batnet.com/pathfinder/mpj1.html

Enjoy!

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Counterfeiting - re: Money in Traveller

> There is no crypto that can't be cracked, especially considering the
> varying tech levels found within a jump of each other (or at least
> a sector of each other).

This brings up the point of how systems with higher tech neighbors can
protect themselves from counterfeiting. Just a small tech level difference
makes a very big difference.

You land on the tech level 7 world, go out and trade for some local
"dollars" and take them back to your ship where you have a tech level 9
high-quality color photocopier...

I suspect some worlds actually have their currency production outsourced
to higher tech neighbors to stop this. Or they have the nearest Imperial
Mint provide them with Imperial Cr for local use and discontinue the local
currency altogether. Either way, you have to move the goods.

Imagine a 100ton cargo hold full of crisp new Cr100 notes...  ;)

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:44:44 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #843

Bryan
     What is this CD you are talking about and, if it's interesting to me,
how do I order one?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:23:35 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> You know...this is _exactly_ why the Imperium came up with the
> semi-sentient Deyo chip transponders. These transponders will happily
> chatter on to each other..."Oh yes and last week they took me out of the
> "Shelbourne", that merchant that disappeared, and put me here, so I'm
> supposed to tell you I'm the "Shelbourne" but this ship is really the
> "Tommy Loy", and the original captain, Old Eneri, skipped on the
> payments in 986 and sold me to Captain Bligh, who hasn't had annual
> maintence in three years, and..."

Exactly.  lol.  Well put. : )  Of course, I don't think it's possible to
remove the transponder box without destroying it.

> They were unforgeable, because no one but the Imperium had a supply of
> deyo chips, and those were taught, not programmed.  99% of this chatter
> was just the chips talking to each other to keep themselves up to date.

Yeah, and it was impossible to "fake the funk."  A chip could always tell
whether it was chatting w/ another chip or not.
 
> While with lots of creative programming, wiring (and a dump of the
> Shelbourne's main data banks) you could transplant an ersatz copy of the
> "Shelbourne" into the Shelbourne's transponder's 'reality' space, making
> it think it _was_ still the Shelbourne, but that would be a lot of work,
> and the transponder would still know that it was shut off for a period
> of time not scheduled in the Shelbourne's main computers. A far more
> delicate sort of operation would be to make the cutover unnoticed by the
> transponder...

Hmm... I'm not so sure.  Shutting off or disconnecting the transponder box
from either the main computer or the communications circuits caused the tamper
circuit to fire and reduce all of the chips to slag.  The question is would it
be possible for the tamper circuit to fail?  It was supposed to have an
integrity monitor that detected any breach in the container or operations.
Losing access to commo or the computer would be obvious to the transponder.
Trying to explain why you disconnected your transponder (thus destroying it)
would be most interesting. : )  Even if satisfactory, expect to pay for a new
one. 

Military ships had an of-off switch to the commo systems (for sending).  Their
transponders could always read but just not broadcast, if set to off.  Of
course, this does conflict w/ DGPs "lying" transponders, but DGP also had a
half-Vilani Cleon and lathanum hull grids...

> Of course, this is a presupposing that you actually knew that the
> transponder was anything but a relatively sophisticated 'squawk-box'.
> IIRC the true nature of the Deyo transponders was a rather closely
> guarded secret.

It was supposed to be "completely unknown to the public."   High nobility can
probably find out virtually any piece of information they care to look up, but
others?  It would be restricted to a "need to know."  The people building the
black boxes, the Emperors private intelligence network, etc etc.  Of course,
IAI knew, as did SolSec.  It would be possible for someone to put the pieces
together, but very unlikely IMO.
And even this knowledge would require the knowledge and ability to breed the
chips.  It took the Imperium quite awhile to do just that and that was
unopposed.  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:57:15 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: 1,000,000 Colonists

     Someone wrote asking about the size of ship needed to move 1,000,000
colonists.  He/She did not give any information other than it was at high
tech level.  I have built a colony ship at TL15 that I think fits his
requirements.  I have purposely built it overly large so that it would be
able to carry all the items needed in a new colony project.

Displacement: 2000000 tons         Hull Armor: 200
Length: 1038.5 meters              Volume: 28000000 m3
Price: MCr 548966.2           Target Size: G
Configuration: Streamlined Box           Tech Level: 15
Mass (Loaded/Empty): 7694773.3 / 6180172.6

Engineering Data
Power Plant: 1371538 MW Fusion Power PLant, 1 year duration (137153.8 m3
fuel)
Jump Performance: 4 (7000000 m3 fuel)
G-Rating: 1G HEPlaR (1000000 MW/G), High-Efficiency CG Lifter (200000 MW)
G-Turns: 20 (J3: 34; J2: 48; J1: 62; 76 using all jump fuel), 125000 m3
fuel each
Maint: 284339

Electronics
Computer: TL-15 Fiber-optic computer (1.1 MW), 3xTL-15 Standard computer
(0.55 MW)
Commo: Laser (1000 AU; 0.3 MW), Maser (1000 AU; 0.6 MW), Meson (1000 AU; 5
MW), Radio (1000 AU; 20 MW)
Avionics: None  (Lets be real folks)
Sensors: AEMS (16 hex; 25 MW), PEMS (7 hex; 0.25 MW), Densitometer (0.4
MW), Neutrino (0.01 MW), NAS (0.05km;
     0.006 MW)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Bridge with 2064 bridge workstations, 10850 normal workstations,
Standard Automation

Armament
Offensive: 20xTL-14 420-MJ Laser Barbette (Loc:0-Arcs:0; 933.3 MW; No crew)
Defensive: 20xTL-14 Sandcaster (Loc:0-Arcs:0; 1 MW; 1 crew)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL-15 (6 Diff Mods; 10 hex; 1.56 MW; 1 crew)

Accommodations
Life Support: Extended (27941957 m3 supported volume; 5588.391 MW),
Artifical Grav/CG (139709.785 MW)
Crew: 14787 (12xManeuver, 1 Electronics, 10850xEngineer, 30 Gunnery,
1425xMaintenance, 306xSteward, 122xMedic,     2051xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 8412xSmall Stateroom (0.5kW)
Passengers: 10xHigh; 1,000,000 Steerage
Passenger Accommodations: 10xLarge Stateroom (1 kW); 1,000,000xBunk
Other Facilities: 542xElectronics Shop (0.6 MW), 20xMachine Shop (1 MW),
20xLaboratory (0.8 MW),
                                123xSick Bay (0.8 MW)
Cargo: 840000 m3 (60,000 tons), 2400 Large Hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 6x95-ton spacious hangar, 4x50-ton
minimal hangar
Air locks: 20,000

Notes
Total Fuel Tankage: 9637153.8 m3 (344137.9 tons)
Fuel scoops (1% of ship surface), fills tanks in 8.6 hours
Fuel purification machinery (5000 MW), 57.8 hours to refine 9637153.8 m3
0.1 MW power surplus

     This design is in response to the many complaints regarding the
previous design.  Note that the ship can land on a planet (Can you say very
large body of water) and has ass the sensors need for system survey.  The
ship now also has some laser for point defence, and some sandcasters for
those the lasers miss.  IMO now government that has spent in excess of half
a trillion dollars on a ship would send it out with less than a full fleet
unit.  I hope this addresses most of the complaints about the earlier
model, personally I think I would rather be frozen and possible die than
spend several months with 999,999 other people.  I do not care how good you
stewards are nor how advanced the air filtration system, that place will
soon smell like 1,000,000 in a gym locker room.


Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:45:04 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > At 07:56 AM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >>What are you talking about?  From your web page you appear to be an employed
> >>white male.  That's no minority.
> >
> > I'm bisexual.  *Everybody* thinks we're perverted.
>
> I don't. But then I'm bi too. :-)
>
> > The effect is similar, since both psionics and people of non-standard
> > orientation are invisible.  Our status isn't evident unless we tell you
> > about it, or try to excercise our rights.  I've had to sit through some of
> > the most rabid anti-gay rhetoric in silence, because speaking up would have
> > lead to violence.  Psionic people would face a similar situation.
>

Being a stone-cold devout atheist in the bible-belt earned me a few
good beat downs.

Intolerance has many faces.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:51:02 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Antti Lahtinen wrote:

> Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> > In Real Life (tm), 99% of those who use a knife to fight, don't know
> > what the hell they're doing...
>
>         Depends on the style and knife.

See!  I told you someone would know!
This list amazes me.

Thanks for the great information, Antti.  I'm saving that for future use.
:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:56:29 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Polls (was-Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

jim clem wrote:

> One single comment on your president (he's sure not MINE!!) and his so
> called polls;
>
> A poll is only able to be useful if you have FOUR pieces of data;

One poll I heard reported on CNN, IIRC.

> 1  The poll results

68% job approval post video

> 2  The number of people polled

17,000+

> 3  The population polled

United States phone subscribers (80-100 million I'm guessing)..

> 4  The questions asked

Ok, they didn't give this one.  Its a fair point, but its a pretty
unambiguous
question that doesn't lead itself to 'forced' answers.

> 60%?  My eye!!!  I have personally not met a single person who approves
> of him yet!!

YMMV.  Especially if you don't talk to a statistically significant number
of
people throughout the relevant populations.

Ob Trav.:  Would polls be relevant at all on an interstellar scale?
Seems like a good reason to use a feudal structure for Imperium
management.  "Damn the Polls! I'm th Duke!"

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:09:52 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Anthony Jackson wrote:

> steve daniels writes:
> > Umm, isn't that going to be a bit crowded with
> > 0.026 tons cargo per person?
> >
> > I think you've made a typo or left something out.  By starting with
> > 1,000,000 tons that you list, and subtracting all the things you list
> > with volume, I get 0.63 tons per person.

> Hm...people should bear in mind how _large_ a traveller ton is.  If we assume
> .3 meters between decks and .2 meters between walls and a clearance of 2
> meters, we get a room which is roughly 2 meters high x 2 meters wide x 2.8
> meters long; given that we are packing people in, we can do a floor setup with
> two bunks at each end (each one has .8 meters of clearance above it, and is .9
> meters wide), low drawers (4 per side, each 1m x .9 meters x .2 meters) beneath
> the lower bunk, and a one meter wide walkway between beds.

Cannon height of decks is, IIRC, 3 meters.  Using 1.5 meter squares,
a Traveller ton is 2 squares long, 1 square wide, and 2 squares wide,
or 4 1.5m^3 cubes.

A Low Berth from FFS2 takes up 1 ton in volume (person inside).
Thus, this ship cannot pass FFS2 muster at one million tons for
one million people.

Bloo


>  If you're willing
> to be really excessive add a half-meter deep set of shelves between the beds,
> this still leaves a 1.5 meter x 1 meter open space in the middle of the room,
> and gives a total of 2.44 cubic meters of stowage in the room.  0.61 cubic
> meters of storage will allow an ordinary person to store around 200 kilograms
> of personal gear, which is plenty (compared to some modern ships, particularly
> submersibles, this is spacious).  Tossing in narrow corridors (figure slightly
> over a meter wide, with rooms on both sides) we increase the volume of the room
> by about a third -- which means that in our stowage area we are storing 3
> people per displacement ton, and the waste space I specify around rooms is
> sufficient to easily account for life support requirements.
>
> Now, if we're willing to drop down to 2 people per displacement ton, we have an
> additional 3.5 m^3 per person.  We will use this in part for a mess room
> (assume shifts, no more than 1/4 of people are in the room at a time) with a
> total of 7 m^3 per occupant (gives about 3 m^2 floor space per occupant, of
> which about 1 m^2 is for the food preparation area) plus an exercise area with
> similar size.
>
> This isn't exactly _comfortable_, but it's believable for transporting people
> for some weeks, and would seem roomy to people on sailing ships from before the
> late 19th century.
> Now, we add in a mess room (figure 2 m^3 per person)
> Now, add in half this volume in 'open space', primar
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:12:02 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Douglas Glatz wrote:

[snip great post]


> For the inexperienced knife-fighter, and whatever witnesses that may be
> accessible, a shotgun is suitable.

SPLURT!  ROFLMAO!

Thats a classic!

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:16:36 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

Mark Cook wrote:

> Not necessarily.  The "Tueller Drill" (which is what Erwin is describing)
> demonstrates that, on average, an attacker with a knife can close 7m
> and attack in ~2.0 sec.  It takes an armed defender ~2.5 sec. to
> recognize the threat, draw a concealed sidearm, and fire 2 shoots.
> (This, of course, assumes the defender is well-trainied.)

What about non-concealed fireams in hip-holster?
With or without clasp fastened.

Thanks for all the great info.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:59:02 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Stuart L. Dollar <sdollar@goodnet.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)




>Basically, I tried to write the piece from the point of view of a
>flaming fringe group that would react to psionics in the same
>manner as the Nazis did to Jews, or as you see in the extreme
>cases on both sides of the abortion debate, or gun control, or
>animal rights, or any other emotionally charged topic.

>In retrospect, I think I went too far.  I think it loses some of its
>effectiveness by not doing good enough of a job of being persuasive
>to a reasonable person.  It certainly does make the extreme anti-
>psionics camp look scary, which was the goal.

Actually Stuart I'd like to say that I think you took just the right
approach to this. In the M:0 period I think the anti-psi's should be a
small, militant group of rabid fanatics. In that way the majority of the
population would look on them as "nutcases" and pretty much dismiss them and
their efforts. For example the neo-Nazi's and KKK in the US today.

It's when the majority develope a less outspoken, sort of undercurrent
resentment of a group (or groups)  that things like the Suppressions
develope.

Again to equate this to modern times, this is something like I see of the
larger portions of the US populations reaction to Affirmative Action
polocies. The polocies, and the people they were intended to help, in and of
themselves are a GOOD thing, but whenever a minority receives "special
treatment", more  subtle resentment grows among a larger portion of the
population until someone(s) comes along to galvanize that seed into larger
action.

This is the route taken in Nazi Germany, where a majority developed the
impression (real or illusionary) that a minority held the power and money.
It then became easy to feed that small flame into a larger fire and call for
a "rational readjustment" that, as in so many case, swung the too far in the
opposite direction.

Upon re-reading this I see a lot of flame bait here. For that I apologise
and publicly state that it is not my intention to insult any minority group,
nor am I making a statment for or against Affirmative Action. I am stateing
views developed from observations, and are only my own opinions. Comments as
related to Traveller are welcome, and in that context references to Real
World (tm) as well. Attempts to debate current politics in and of themselves
will be ignored, THIS IS NOT THE FORUM FOR THAT.

Mike Peters
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #848
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 24 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 849



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[OT] SLA Industries
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #847
[none]
It's Here! <bounce, bounce, bounce> :)
Re: Gurps Traveller
Customs and safety inspections (was Re: Piracy!)
Re: Revised Psionic Institutes Checklist
XBoat
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #848
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Tamperproof
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:52:08 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [OT] SLA Industries

[OFF TOPIC]

For those of you who are interested, SLA Industries has been *given* back
to Nightfall Games by WotC, and new material should be out in the next six
months.

Apologies to those who aren't interested in the slightest.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:21:01 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Time to hear from the Megatraveller Crowd;

Staten Island Class Colony Vessel


CraftID:	Staten Island Class Colony Vessel, TL 12, Mcr. 1,181,830.56
Hull:	266667/666667, Disp=4000000tons, Config=0USL, Armor=40F
	Unloaded=22711466 tons,  Loaded=32266341 tons
Power:	111998/223996, Primary Fusion=9628012Mw, Duration=60 days
	Secondary Fusion=451800Mw, Consumption=225.9 Kl/Hr.
Loco:	5333/10667, Manuver=1G, 10667/21333, Jump=3,
	NOE=0kph, Cruise=900kph, Top=1200kph, Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=System, LaserComm=System, Maser=System, Meson=System
Sensors:	ActEMS=Far Orbit, PassiveEMS=Interstellar
	LoPen=1m, HiPen=50m, Neutrino=1Gw
	ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine
	PasObjScan=Difficult, PasObjPin=Difficult
	PasEngScan=Routine, PasEngPin=Formidible
Off:	Beamlaser=xx3
	           batt=00600
	           bear=00300

Def:	DefDM +4
	 Sand=xx4
	   batt=00600
	   bear=00300
Control:	Computer=6/fibx3, Panel=Dynamic Linked x282134
	Special=Heads-up Display x200, Special=LargeHoloDisp x5
	Basic Env, Basic LS, Ext LS, Air Locks x 800, Grav Plates, Inertial Comp
Accomm:	Crew=59149 (Bridge=48, Engineering=5814, Maintanence=806, Gunners=48,
	Flight Crew=800, Command=1252, Stewards=306, Medical=50075)
	Sm. Stateroomsx19716, Lg. Stateroomsx19717,
	Sick Bay x 25000,
	SubCraft=Modular Cutter (50 Ton)x200, Fuel Modulex200



Other:	Cargo=8313624 (615824 tons), Fuel=17732169 kl.

	ObjSize=Large, EmLevel1=Strong, EM Level2=Strong


Yes! for a mere 1.18 Million Megacredits you and 999,999 of your closest
personal friends can sleep your way to a brave new world many parsecs away.

One jump 3 and 60 days duration are accounted for in one tank of fuel.  The
cutters gather fuel for the ship to refine onboard, but it takes a week to
completely refine the full fuel tank.  I don't imagine this ship to be in
too big a hurry, and bigger plants take space.

The vast majority of the crew are medical personnel for "waking the dead"
at the end of the journey.  There are more medics on this ship than there
are med students in most U.S. Universities!  I would imnagine that this
would constitute an excuse for some quantity of learning nad teaching.

200 modular cutters provide transportation for colonists and refueling for
the ship.  over 600,000 tons of cargo space should be ample for each
colonists "allowance" plus a significant amount of requisite equipment and
spares, hopefully.  It will take quite some time for the stuff to be
transported down in only 200 cutters (200 times ~25 tons of cargo each =
5000, requiring over 100 trips just for the cargo).  Also, that 5000 tons
could be used for addition cargo (but it better be what's needed first!).

The vessel itself can't land and can't self refuel, but unlike others I
think there should be some integral self-defense capability.  600 triple
beam lasers for anti missile defense and 600 sandcasters are intended to
hold off small fleets of hostile vessels.

A good sensor suite is included due to the frontier nature of the likely
destinations.



I agree with some others in that this approach may not be the right way to
go, so I tried again and ended up with this;

North End Class Colony/Cargo Vessel


CraftID:	North End Class Colony/Cargo Vessel, TL 12, Mcr. 12642.16
Hull:	2667/6667, Disp=40000tons, Config=4SL, Armor=40F
	Unloaded=315065 tons,  Loaded=573920 tons
Power:	1570/3140, Primary Fusion=96106Mw, Duration=30 days
	Secondary Fusion=45180Mw, Consumption=22.6 Kl/Hr.
Loco:	53/107, Manuver=1G, 107/213, Jump=3,
	NOE=0kph, Cruise=900kph, Top=1200kph, Agility=0
Commo:	Radio=System, LaserComm=System, Maser=System, Meson=System
Sensors:	ActEMS=Far Orbit, PassiveEMS=Interstellar
	LoPen=1m, HiPen=50m, Neutrino=1Gw
	ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine
	PasObjScan=Difficult, PasObjPin=Difficult
	PasEngScan=Routine, PasEngPin=Formidible
Off:	Beamlaser=xx3
	           batt=0060
	           bear=0051
Def:	DefDM +5
	 Sand=xx4
	   batt=0060
	   bear=0051
Control:	Computer=6/fibx3, Panel=Dynamic Linked x3149
	Special=Heads-up Display x1, Special=LargeHoloDisp x1
	Basic Env, Basic LS, Ext LS, Air Locks x 40, Grav Plates, Inertial Comp
Accomm:	Crew=198 (Bridge=5, Engineering=68, Maintanence=6, Gunners=4,
	Flight Crew=40, Command=20, Stewards=4, Medical=50)
	Sm. Stateroomsx66, Lg. Stateroomsx66,
	Sick Bay x 25,
	SubCraft=Modular Cutter (50 Ton)x10, Cargo Modulex10
Other:	Cargo=248872.5 (18435 tons), Fuel=142598 kl.
	ObjSize=Large, EmLevel1=Moderate, EM Level2=Strong

This vessel would be used in large numbers in a similar way to the much
larger vessel above.  It is 1/100th the size and 1/100th the capacity in
all ways.  It is 2/100ths the cost, which means its about double the total
purchase price to transport the same number of colonists, reflecting the
economies of scale inherent in the larger craft.  Likewise the crew of 100
of these would be roughly double the crew of one of the "Staten Islands",
although cargo is actually tripled in the smaller ship.

On the other hand, when all the passengers are delivered, this craft can be
used to carry conventional cargo and regular passengers with a minor refit.
The Staten Island can too, but how many worlds (under canon rules) can fill
a 4 million ton ship with cargo? (then again, how many can fill a 40,000
ton ship?)

Depending on distance, you might also decide multiple trips with the "North
End" are better than one with the "Staten Island".

The other advantage of the "North End" is the ability to land.  Of course,
I could have designed the "Staten Island" to be able to land, but where
would it?  (answer "anywhere it wants to").  I feel that it is easier and
more practical for a 40,000 ton vessel to land than it would be for a 4
million ton.  Its a practical matter of finding flat ground or open water
near the desired destination.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

steve daniels writes:
> 
> Cannon height of decks is, IIRC, 3 meters.  Using 1.5 meter squares,
> a Traveller ton is 2 squares long, 1 square wide, and 2 squares wide,
> or 4 1.5m^3 cubes.

That's classic, and is really a square 5' * 5' * 10' high.  It doesn't really
make much sense realistically, and you don't actually need that heigh ceilings.
> 
> A Low Berth from FFS2 takes up 1 ton in volume (person inside).
> Thus, this ship cannot pass FFS2 muster at one million tons for
> one million people.

This wasn't an argument about traveller-legal (though the world tamers handbook
for TNE says you can do this).  This is an argument about believability.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:25:09 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #847

To Smart David J
     I agree that a characters skill should also factor into the amount of
damage able to be inflicted with a weapon.  A novice might by accident
score a very successful/damaging hit, but someone trained to be lethal
should have more chance of high damage than that novice.  The same applies
to gun combat in a way.  Someone trained as an expert marksman will hit
more often than someone who is a novice and will also hit targets in more
damaging places.  I think the penalty for called shots (aiming) should be
lowered by a fraction of the characters gun skill.  Otherwise you marksman
will hit more often than you novice, but only in location decided upon by
the roll of a die.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:23:02 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: [none]

One quick question, and it displays my own ignorance. Do the crew numbers
from ship design reflect the number needed for a single shift or "around the
clock"? I assume they reflect a singel crew operating a single shift, as
reflected by the number of required work stations, but I'd like to know how
others handle this.

On a small trader it doesn't matter, but on a large military ship I would
assume a 3 shift rotation with at least enough crew to maintain each shift
(not counting frozen watch).

What would a skeleton crew be? One half of the number or work stations
listed for the operation (i.e. manuver, engineering, etc), three quarters,
full shift?

Thanks in advance.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:07:20 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: It's Here! <bounce, bounce, bounce> :)

It's Here! <bounce, bounce, bounce>

I called them from the precinct during my lunch break, and they
said it was in! <bounce, bounce, bounce>

So, after work, <bounce, bounce, bounce>ing all the way, I ran
down to my FLGS (well, I took the subway - even <bounce, bounce,
bounce>ing, Fordham Road in the Bronx to 33rd Street in Manhattan
is a bit too far to _run_!), and <bounce, bounce, bounce>d
through the door, to see - in the place of honor on the GURPS
shelves - a familiar cover from the distant past <bounce, bounce,
bounce> - or at least one that was close enough to be immediately
identifiable!

Once I had that hot little item in my hot little hands, I was
able to restrain myself until I got onto the train home.  I like
the heft (it speaks of lots of info, if past GURPS supplements
are any guide), I like the layout (easy to read - like past GURPS
supplements), and what I've so far read, I like.  The only things
I don't like - and they're both minor nits - is that (1) G:T is
using US Imperial measurements (which was explained, but...),
and... I'm sorry; those aren't Aslan; they're humans who haven't
shaved.  _Real_ Aslan can be found on the covers of
_Alien_Module_1:_Aslan_ and _Solomani_and_Aslan_.  I'm going to
have to smuggle it into work tomorrow, so I can look at it
_properly_.

But it's really here! <bounce, bounce, bounce>
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:42:26 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

At 08:49 AM 9/24/98 -0500, Dan wrote:

>None of the game stores around here will have it for another week!  I'm 
>so
>pissed.
>

Shops in the Washington DC area are supposed to have it by Monday or so...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:49:31 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Customs and safety inspections (was Re: Piracy!)

>
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:56:58 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Piracy!
>
>Actually, the folks boarding ships for Customs inspections are going to
>be the equivalent of the Coast Guard. Which means that they *will* be
>concerned with safety. 
>
...
>Basicly, if the crew of the customs cutter can feel some sympathy, and
>there doesn't seem to be a danger to the planet or to ships in the
>vicinity, they'll let it go (and make jokes about it). 
>
>If the crew pisses them off, or it looks like the ship could get into
>trouble and thus either require rescueing, or pose a danger to others,
>then they'll nail them.
>

And let us not forget:

"you may be sure that if the officials in a foreign port can think of any
reason to fine the vessel, they will do it."

Martin, B., Shipmaster's Handbook on Ship's Business, p. 27, Cornell
Maritime Press, 1969.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:49:05 -0700
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Revised Psionic Institutes Checklist

> While we're discussing Psionic Institutes, here's the final revision of
> my PI checklist.  Joe Walsh and Suzette Dollar were going to produce
> this for GenCon 97, but I guess they ran out of time.

Looks nice.  Just for the record though, I worked up 
something for PE not PI. It was submitted to IG for 
possible print and dist at Gencon, but I never saw anything 
come of it... which is probably for the best because 
despite my efforts, I still managed to miss a formula or 
two. Perhaps if I have time, I'll dig it back up, fix it 
and give it to someone to put up on a webpage.

Suz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:04:31 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: XBoat

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:15:23 -0400, Charles Prevatte
<prevattec@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>How do I subscribe to the xboat list?  I have tried the method suggested in
>the FAQ but the auto responder gives me the error the xboat does not exist.
>I sent the command for the list of lists and xboat or xtml is not on the
>list.  Is there a different list server for the xboat list?  If so what is
>the subscribe email address?

You're obviously reading a long-not-updated version of the FAQ.
The XBoat list is deceased (requiescat in pace).  You're not
missing anything, though - anything that was on-topic for that
list is also on-topic right here.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:55:13 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #848

Bloo
     I play TNE and so use the FFS1 rules book since FFS2 is for T4.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:01:41 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

Date sent:      	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:22:44 -0400
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM

>"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> writes:
>>Basically if you have to use metrics they will become your intuitive
>>standard.

>Dunno about that. However, one of my kids today coverted 12 feet into a
>yard! 

I remember the great pains I had to go to to explain picas (1/12th of an inch) to 
apprentices, they just could not visualise the unit.

>It seems to have taken most of a generation to change in Canada.  Some
>parts still haven't totally, especially where Imperial units are simpler
>because of pre-existing conditions. For example, land surveyed in sections
>means farmers still talk in section, because the numbers are simpler. Mind
>you, they also use hectares as well. Many of my generation mix-and-match
>units, often in the same measurement ("I'll take an inch to four
>centimeteres, please.").

>Somewhere in my 20s I lost my 'feel' for Imperial units, and now have to
>convert to metric before things make sense. SO I guess repeated use has
>converted me. (Plus not having to do compound addition!)

I was trained as a printer when they still had their own very arcane units 
(points, ems, ens, type high, picas etc) and they are basically Imperial units 
(except type high which relates to nothing else). These units survived into the 
80's, but they were some of the last hold overs and they only survived that long 
because the machinery that used them survived. When those presses finally 
wore out, the units were no longer needed.

>>Not really. Weights and measures don't evolve as such. They either
>>survive 
>>pretty much intact or are totally replaced. The whole point of weights
>>and 
>>measures is to give certainty, the mile has remained constant for over
>>1000 
>>years.

>Actually, weights and measures have differed quite a bit throughout
>history, and they do evolve. A Roman mile is not the same thing as an
>Imperial mile (although I think that an Imperial mile and an American mile
>are the same thing).

They changed, they did not 'evolve'. The Roman mile did not gradually get 
longer and slowly become the Imperial mile, the unit got redefined effectively 
making it a new unit with the same name (the change occured sometime in the 
8th century in England. The pace did not gradually get longer and become the 
yard/metre/arshin etc, it got replaced (aside, the pace survived as a unit of 
measure in the Hapsburg Empire until after the First World War).

>A classic example is the American gallon. At the time of teh American
>Rebellion, Britain had at least two gallons. The American colonial
>merchants started using the smaller wine gallon for everything (not just
>wine) - incidentally concealing a price increase.

Yes but its wasn't an evolution, it was a redefinition.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:01:09 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:

> > While with lots of creative programming, wiring (and a dump of the
> > Shelbourne's main data banks) you could transplant an ersatz copy of the
> > "Shelbourne" into the Shelbourne's transponder's 'reality' space, making
> > it think it _was_ still the Shelbourne, but that would be a lot of work,
> > and the transponder would still know that it was shut off for a period
> > of time not scheduled in the Shelbourne's main computers. A far more
> > delicate sort of operation would be to make the cutover unnoticed by the
> > transponder...
> 
> Hmm... I'm not so sure.  Shutting off or disconnecting the transponder box
> from either the main computer or the communications circuits caused the tamper
> circuit to fire and reduce all of the chips to slag.  

What you have to do is make it look like a power failure or ship
shutdown. That shouldn't make the self destruct circuits fire.


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:05:53 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> steve daniels writes:
> >
> > Cannon height of decks is, IIRC, 3 meters.  Using 1.5 meter squares,
> > a Traveller ton is 2 squares long, 1 square wide, and 2 squares wide,
> > or 4 1.5m^3 cubes.
> 
> That's classic, and is really a square 5' * 5' * 10' high.  It doesn't really
> make much sense realistically, and you don't actually need that heigh ceilings.
>

This isn't actually ceiling height, it's floor to floor height,
including all the intervening ductwork, pipes, wiring, etc between
decks. this usually translates to somewhere between 2 and 2.5 meter high
living spaces, depending an what's going on underfoot (or overhead as
the case may be.) 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:12:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Bruce Johnson writes:
> 
> This isn't actually ceiling height, it's floor to floor height,
> including all the intervening ductwork, pipes, wiring, etc between
> decks. this usually translates to somewhere between 2 and 2.5 meter high
> living spaces, depending an what's going on underfoot (or overhead as
> the case may be.) 
 
You don't need 3 meter high decks even if you include ducting/etc, though the
result is somewhat claustrophobic if you don't, and halving more than a half
meter of 'stuff' between decks (where the volume for the 'stuff' is not already
being counted against the volume of some other subsystem) is probably
excessive.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:22:21 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

At 05:39 am 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> 50mN = 0.00005 Thrust tons (kN)
>> 0.00005Tth/0.5tonnes = 0.0001 G
>
>Well, they said on CNN that it will increase its initial speed
>by ten thousand times, so it will hit 1G someday.  ;-)

	No, it will never hit 1G, it will always be 0.0001G. Speed and
acceleration are two completely different things--a ten thousand fold
increase in speed doesn't affect the acceleration.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:28:30 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Tamperproof

At 12:09 pm 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>"Tamperproof". Interesting word. Kind of reminds me of another
word...
>>"Unsinkable".  <Cut to exciting footage from _Titanic_>
>
>Actually, the ship was billed as "virtually unsinkable", but the
>advertising chaps left out "virtually".

	OK, ok, I know nothing is "un..."--I debated using tamper-resistant
but it weakened the point I was making. I've been over this before,
and you can very easily make some assumptions about the
*characteristics* of technology available (without defining the
technology) that make near-foolproof transponders possible. A while
back I posted a first-cut description at just such a system, using
20th century technology.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:30:32 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

At 10:04 am 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>If I should find myself with the prospect of facing a gunmen, my
preferred
>weapon would be mercenaries.

	Mine would be a Mk21 thermonuclear warhead, reentering at hypersonic
speeds from half a world away ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:35:04 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 04:23 pm 9/24/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Hmm... I'm not so sure.  Shutting off or disconnecting the transponder box
>from either the main computer or the communications circuits caused the tamper
>circuit to fire and reduce all of the chips to slag.  The question is would it
>be possible for the tamper circuit to fail?  It was supposed to have an
>integrity monitor that detected any breach in the container or operations.
>Losing access to commo or the computer would be obvious to the transponder.
>Trying to explain why you disconnected your transponder (thus destroying it)
>would be most interesting. : )  Even if satisfactory, expect to pay for a new
>one. 
>
>Military ships had an of-off switch to the commo systems (for sending).  Their
>transponders could always read but just not broadcast, if set to off.  Of
>course, this does conflict w/ DGPs "lying" transponders, but DGP also had a
>half-Vilani Cleon and lathanum hull grids...

	Actually, ALL ships had an on/off switch--since pirates are
canonical, the Imperium allowed you to try to hide ... However, you
better have a very good explanation the first time an IN cruiser
checks your transponder.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:32:12 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 10:46 am 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Of course, there's the flip side to this...to keep the nature of the
>deyo chips secret, you can't use 90% of the information you could get
>out of them, much like Britain's quandaries with the Ultra data duroing
>WWII. As the Ultra group got better and better at decoding Enigma
>ciphered messages, it got harder and harder to use the intel without
>giving away that they'd broken Enigma. A standing rule was that any
>intel shared widely had to appear to have come from other sources such
>as live assets, or en-clair radio intercepts. 

	Which is why Winston Churchill allowed the city of Coventry to be
bombed into oblivion by the Nazis, without any warning or evacuation
of the population ... a hard decision, one I'm glad I'll never have
to make.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #849
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 850



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Metric and GT
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Vilani measures
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Vilani measures
Re: Vilani measures
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.
Re: Vilani measures
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Metric and GT
re: Transponders (was re: Piracy)
<bounce, bounce, bounce>
Re: <bounce, bounce, bounce>
Re: Traveller Text Adventure
#$^@&*(*%U Templars again!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:48:52 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

At 05:12 pm 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Bruce Johnson writes:
>> 
>> This isn't actually ceiling height, it's floor to floor height,
>> including all the intervening ductwork, pipes, wiring, etc between
>> decks. this usually translates to somewhere between 2 and 2.5 meter high
>> living spaces, depending an what's going on underfoot (or overhead as
>> the case may be.) 
> 
>You don't need 3 meter high decks even if you include ducting/etc,
though the
>result is somewhat claustrophobic if you don't, and halving more
than a half
>meter of 'stuff' between decks (where the volume for the 'stuff' is
not already
>being counted against the volume of some other subsystem) is
probably

	Actually, I've always counted the volume of the "stuff" as being
included in the volume of the various systems. Thus, if you've got 14
cubic meters of jump drive, the actual machinery is part of that, as
is the access space around it, the ductwork, power, etc. And normal
8' ceilings are 2.5m, so it's not that excessive.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:53:51 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
>>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.
>
Being in school at the time of the change in Canada. I can remember the
"ease" of the change. In a space of 5 years all signs in my area changed to
metric. In school the change was a lot faster, over the summer holidays in
75/76, and you used metric only. IMO it was some what draconian in
implementing but it worked.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:07:42 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> At 10:04 am 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >If I should find myself with the prospect of facing a gunmen, my
> preferred
> >weapon would be mercenaries.
> 
>         Mine would be a Mk21 thermonuclear warhead, reentering at hypersonic
> speeds from half a world away ...

Unless, of course, you needed the resources at ground zero....  ;-)


> -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
>     *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***
> 
>    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
>    much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
>       -- Thomas Jefferson

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:15:42 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
>         Actually, ALL ships had an on/off switch--since pirates are
> canonical, the Imperium allowed you to try to hide ... However, you
> better have a very good explanation the first time an IN cruiser
> checks your transponder.

At what TL do Deyo-based transponders appear?  (I'm not very conversant
with TNE....)  And how do shipyards which operate at lower TLs _get_
their Deyo-based transponders?  Further, how does/did the Imperium
impose the Deyo-based transponder on extra-Imperial shipyards?

The variable-setting transponder referred to in the description of the
Corsair starship requires either a pre-Deyo transponder, or a Deyo-based
transponder that has been taught to lie....

(Sorry to stir the fecal material with this, but "enquiring minds want
to know."


> -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
>     *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***
> 
>    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
>    much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
>       -- Thomas Jefferson

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:22:26 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Vilani measures

Date sent:      	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:15:48 -0400
From:           	steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>

>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>> Vilani weights and measures

>> How about the base unit is derived from wraping cord from the base of the
>> thumb to the elbow (roughly 850mm)?

>That is essentially an Egyptian cubit.  The cubit was from the Pharaoh's
>shoulder to elbow, but elbow-shoulder is very, very close to wrist-elbow,
>which should also be very close to the lengths of your foot.  Try it
>yourself.  Mine match.  ;-)

Actually its a good bit bigger than the cubit. Its the distance from the base of 
the thumb to the elbow and back up again. The cubit is about 350mm IIRC. I 
just liked the idea of the official measurer caste winding a cord around their arm 
and marking off the "tally" on their fingers.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:23:36 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> At 05:12 pm 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Bruce Johnson writes:
> >>
> >> This isn't actually ceiling height, it's floor to floor height,
> >> including all the intervening ductwork, pipes, wiring, etc between
> >> decks. this usually translates to somewhere between 2 and 2.5
> meter high
> >> living spaces, depending an what's going on underfoot (or overhead
> as
> >> the case may be.)
> >
> >You don't need 3 meter high decks even if you include ducting/etc,
> though the
> >result is somewhat claustrophobic if you don't, and halving more
> than a half
> >meter of 'stuff' between decks (where the volume for the 'stuff' is
> not already
> >being counted against the volume of some other subsystem) is
> probably
> 
>         Actually, I've always counted the volume of the "stuff" as being
> included in the volume of the various systems. Thus, if you've got 14
> cubic meters of jump drive, the actual machinery is part of that, as
> is the access space around it, the ductwork, power, etc. And normal
> 8' ceilings are 2.5m, so it's not that excessive.

Besides, one might have passengers/crew from low-grav worlds, who might
therefore be 2+ meters tall.  _I_ would want such persons to be able to
move freely through my ship (or at least through those areas to which
they had access.)

<tongue-in-cheek>Hey, maybe this is an argument for recruiting engineers
from very high-grav worlds (you build engineering decks at a low height
[say, 1.5 meters], and recruit gravity-stunted engineers to work
there).  That way, average-sized humans couldn't function effectively in
those spaces, and therefore couldn't take over one's ship as
easily....</tongue-in-cheek>

> -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
>     *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***
> 
>    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
>    much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
>       -- Thomas Jefferson

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:47:44 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Vilani measures

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Date sent:              Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:15:48 -0400
> From:                   steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
> 
> >Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> >> Vilani weights and measures
> 
> >> How about the base unit is derived from wraping cord from the base of the
> >> thumb to the elbow (roughly 850mm)?
> 
> >That is essentially an Egyptian cubit.  The cubit was from the Pharaoh's
> >shoulder to elbow, but elbow-shoulder is very, very close to wrist-elbow,
> >which should also be very close to the lengths of your foot.  Try it
> >yourself.  Mine match.  ;-)
> 
> Actually its a good bit bigger than the cubit. Its the distance from the base of
> the thumb to the elbow and back up again. The cubit is about 350mm IIRC. I
> just liked the idea of the official measurer caste winding a cord around their arm
> and marking off the "tally" on their fingers.
> 
Of what diameter is the cord?  ;-)


> Andrew etc.
>   a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
>   http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
> IMTU Code
>   tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
>   kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge
> 
> ************************************************************
>   Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
> ************************************************************

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:31:27 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Vilani measures

Date sent:      	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:47:44 -0500
From:           	Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>

>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>> Actually its a good bit bigger than the cubit. Its the distance from the base of
>> the thumb to the elbow and back up again. The cubit is about 350mm IIRC. I
>> just liked the idea of the official measurer caste winding a cord around their arm
>> and marking off the "tally" on their fingers.

>Of what diameter is the cord?  ;-)

1 Ugdadu (3.4mm) :*>

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
  Hanging out for more TNS Loren (pretty please grovel)
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:11:48 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 03:23 PM 9/24/98 , you wrote:
>> You know...this is _exactly_ why the Imperium came up with the
>> semi-sentient Deyo chip transponders. These transponders will happily
>> chatter on to each other..."Oh yes and last week they took me out of the
>> "Shelbourne", that merchant that disappeared, and put me here, so I'm
>> supposed to tell you I'm the "Shelbourne" but this ship is really the
>> "Tommy Loy", and the original captain, Old Eneri, skipped on the
>> payments in 986 and sold me to Captain Bligh, who hasn't had annual
>> maintence in three years, and..."
>
>Exactly.  lol.  Well put. : )  Of course, I don't think it's possible to
>remove the transponder box without destroying it.

Well the "Chatter Box" chip circuit on every ship will/should have a
EMCON(EMmission CONtrol) switch to cease all comm activity via the chip.
Like when the pirate/privateer is hunting the target merchant ship. After
lengthy disccusion when the "Chatter Box" was first introduced into the
Traveller universe, a consenus was reached, ie a ship can cut off the out
ship commnunications, but later will have a good reason for it.

>Hmm... I'm not so sure.  Shutting off or disconnecting the transponder box
>from either the main computer or the communications circuits caused the
tamper
>circuit to fire and reduce all of the chips to slag.  The question is
would it
>be possible for the tamper circuit to fail?  It was supposed to have an
>integrity monitor that detected any breach in the container or operations.
>Losing access to commo or the computer would be obvious to the transponder.
>Trying to explain why you disconnected your transponder (thus destroying it)
>would be most interesting. : )  Even if satisfactory, expect to pay for a new
>one. 

Shutting off coms would not cause the ship to "mlet down"

>Military ships had an of-off switch to the commo systems (for sending).
Their
>transponders could always read but just not broadcast, if set to off.  Of
>course, this does conflict w/ DGPs "lying" transponders, but DGP also had a
>half-Vilani Cleon and lathanum hull grids...
>
>> Of course, this is a presupposing that you actually knew that the
>> transponder was anything but a relatively sophisticated 'squawk-box'.
>> IIRC the true nature of the Deyo transponders was a rather closely
>> guarded secret.
>
>It was supposed to be "completely unknown to the public."   High nobility can
>probably find out virtually any piece of information they care to look up,
but
>others?  It would be restricted to a "need to know."  The people building the
>black boxes, the Emperors private intelligence network, etc etc.  Of course,
>IAI knew, as did SolSec.  It would be possible for someone to put the pieces
>together, but very unlikely IMO.
>And even this knowledge would require the knowledge and ability to breed the
>chips.  It took the Imperium quite awhile to do just that and that was
>unopposed.  

Well let see if every A class starport has say four techs, every Class B
has three techs, every C class has two techs that can *access* the "Chatter
Box" black box. Lets says the imperium of 11,000 worlds three quarters fo
the starports have BB(Black Box) Techs that about 9,000 teachs just at the
starport level, not counting the ones at the support level. So lets say
11,000 in the support level that means every Imperial year there are 20,000
BB techs working on the "Chatter Boxes", over 100+ years you will have
2,000,000 techs that have *knowledge* and skills to work on the "Chatter
Box". Due to the nature of covert/criminal ops, to say that more than one
of those BB techs would be *persuaded* to *pass on* such knowledge and
skills would be a vast understatement. 

Net result, after 100+ years, if you want your "Chatter Box" to sing a
different tune, you would not have to look very hard to get it done
*professionally*.<G>

The above does not factor into equation the *efforts* of non Imperial
governments in getting the "Chatter Box" to sing another tune.<G>


Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:28:12 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

At 09:39 24/09/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>That's fairly easy.  There will be zero effect on fusion reactors unless
>there's enough power to vaporize the ship.  There will be no significant
effect
>on fission reactors unless the neutron flux is sufficient to kill the entire
>crews within hours, and even then the only effect will be some slight
increase
>in temperature, possibly with an automatic shutdown via insertion of cooling
>rods.
I thought it was the case that if the reactions increased too quickly then
the control rode were likely to be unable to be inserted in sufficient time
to avpoid melt down.  Is this right in theory but not a practical worry?
Why would fusion reactors not suffer, or is the magnitude of any increase
in power not likely to cause damage?  I thought that fatigue of containment
vesels caused by heat buildup from the absobed radiation was likely to be
greatly increased by a a lot of incoming radiation, especially from a
direction which it is not designed to cope with.  Comments?
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:51:35 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NPR] Nasa's new probe.

David J. Golden wrote:

>         No, it will never hit 1G, it will always be 0.0001G. Speed and
> acceleration are two completely different things--a ten thousand fold
> increase in speed doesn't affect the acceleration.

Right.  I can never keep that straight.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:56:25 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Vilani measures

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> Date sent:              Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:15:48 -0400
> From:                   steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
>
> >Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>
> >> Vilani weights and measures
>
> >> How about the base unit is derived from wraping cord from the base of the
> >> thumb to the elbow (roughly 850mm)?
>
> >That is essentially an Egyptian cubit.  The cubit was from the Pharaoh's
> >shoulder to elbow, but elbow-shoulder is very, very close to wrist-elbow,
> >which should also be very close to the lengths of your foot.  Try it
> >yourself.  Mine match.  ;-)
>
> Actually its a good bit bigger than the cubit. Its the distance from the base of
> the thumb to the elbow and back up again. The cubit is about 350mm IIRC. I
> just liked the idea of the official measurer caste winding a cord around their arm
> and marking off the "tally" on their fingers.

Well, a real cubit was measured on the Pharoah's body, so with
different Pharoah's you get different standards.  And I wasn't sure what
exactly you meant by the base of the thumb until you explained it in
subsequent post.  I don't know the precise terminology for the point of
the hand your mean, but to me the base of the thumb is at the wrist.
And what you called the base, I would call, well, I don't know what,
which is why I wasn't clear.  ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:58:47 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

Wayne Ewart wrote:

> >> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
> >>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.
> >
> Being in school at the time of the change in Canada. I can remember the
> "ease" of the change. In a space of 5 years all signs in my area changed to
> metric. In school the change was a lot faster, over the summer holidays in
> 75/76, and you used metric only. IMO it was some what draconian in
> implementing but it worked.

If they tried that in the US, there would be so many law suits, so fast,
your head would spin.  Intentional infliction of emotion distress by
confusing children and making them learn evil measuring systems,
making them feel foolish when they have difficulty.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:01:38 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> As a trained sniper, I'd shoot one guy, then move and pick off the troops
> setting up the sensors.  Also, I'd carry a long string of firecrackers to
> confuse the issue.  Also, snipers don't hang around large concentrations of
> enemy soldiers for long.  We'll take one or two shots, try to take out a
> leader, then move to our next firing position.

Just curious, but have you tried the new game Rainbow 6?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:10:18 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

>If they tried that in the US, there would be so many law suits, so fast,
>your head would spin.  Intentional infliction of emotion distress by
>confusing children and making them learn evil measuring systems,
>making them feel foolish when they have difficulty.


Strangely enough, here in the US we do teach the metric system and insist
that students know it.
They get it in Math and Science.  The idea is that they need it to
study/learn science.
Luckily I teach history and avoid the mess that it causes.
A draconian approach would be the only way it would work.
tv

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:19:46 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

With ease!!!!! They stopped making tape measures in both units for a time,
this has now changed beacuse the problem remains with metric units (we do
NOT use the SI system here in Oz except in scientific circles) that they
are not convenient measures for many purposes.  The driving force behind si
units was ease of calculation in base 10, a need long made irrelevant by
the use of computers in technical circles.   I am happy with both sets, but
the trouble caused with trading partners who use differen systems is weird.
 Take wood for example.  We have sizes which are based on old imperial
units, so thickeses are 19mmm and 13mm etc. etc.
sigh 
Colin
>
>> >> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
>> >>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.
>> >

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:40:58 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Transponders (was re: Piracy)

Hello,
>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Transponders (was re: Piracy)
...
>  This problem _could not_ arise if the registry info on a new (or rebuilt)
>ship were required to be distributed when the work started; a new starship
>can't really be built in under half a year, which is [~24 * 2.8] about a
>sector and a half circle of pre-information: a rebuild would hardly ever
>come in under 10 weeks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>She's under new registry, with a new owner. I picked "rebuild hull"
>because (IMTU) so many ships of dubious background are (or pass
>themselves off as) scrapyard rebuilds to explain away missing,
>damaged, or unusual serial numbers on parts. Getting a new registry
>and new owner on a ship shouldn't take long, a lot less time than it
>would take for independent verification of the change to trickle through
>backwater planets.

  Doesn't the ship require any time to be brought from "scrapyard" status
to putative spaceworthiness? If so, then the new ID could be disseminated
sector-wide before the ship even passed its' final tests.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:41:03 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: <bounce, bounce, bounce>

>It's Here! <bounce, bounce, bounce>

  The natives are either restless, or suitably enthusiastic :>

  Tell us more!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:24:26 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: <bounce, bounce, bounce>

At 22:41 24/09/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>It's Here! <bounce, bounce, bounce>
>
>  The natives are either restless, or suitably enthusiastic :>
>
>  Tell us more!
>
Nope, Tigger has escaped from hundred acre wood!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:50:28 -0700
From: Sanders <timmon@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Text Adventure

At 01:32 PM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>Would someone email me the URL for the Traveller Text Advertures.
>Talking about Green House effect has me very interested in reading them.
>
>Daniel
>
>daniel@virtualvoices.com


http://www.primenet.com/~timmon/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:38:04 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: #$^@&*(*%U Templars again!

@#)&$& !)&$%!)  three days without a TML fix! )!@#$&& _%(#&  must be another
#(%$& Templar plot! )#($%& wonder what THEY didn't want us to see this
time!!.........

Oh!(Looking around sheepishly) Are we on?! Uh, I'm sorry! I really didn't
mean that guys!! It was a mistake!!! ( a knocking at the door) Unh, who's
there? Noooo, not the Azhanti Inquisition!!

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #850
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 851



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Fighters (High Guard) (longish)
Deckplan Fallacies (was :Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
G:T Nicely Done.
Re: MT Hand to Hand
MT starship combat
RE: HIWG CD
GURPS Traveller
Hello?
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #849
Test
Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #827
Travler Adventure
Cargo filling (Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)
[none]
Test, ignore
Earth calling...
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Cargo filling (Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
Virus Attack?
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)
Re: Earth calling...
Re: Gurps Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:01:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

David J. Golden writes:
>      Actually, I've always counted the volume of the "stuff" as being
> included in the volume of the various systems. Thus, if you've got 14
> cubic meters of jump drive, the actual machinery is part of that, as
> is the access space around it, the ductwork, power, etc. And normal
> 8' ceilings are 2.5m, so it's not that excessive.

If that 'stuff' is counted against some other displacement, you shouldn't count
it against your available volume for the room.  As for 8' ceilings, while
that's reasonably normal for buildings, vehicles have a tendency to be more
cramped than that.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:00:05 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 12:01 AM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Just curious, but have you tried the new game Rainbow 6?

Not on a 486/100 running Win3.1, I haven't.  Wasn't overly impressed with
the book either.

To be honest, I really don't like the shoot-em-up type computer games.  The
only computer play is Nethack.  An ASCII fantasy game, it's taken me over a
year to win for the first time.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:15:30 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)

I was perusing my copy of Star Fleet Battles, noted the bits on
early fighter shuttles - how they could launch more missiles than they
could control, and would need missile guidance support from either
their carrier or another friendly ship. This got me thinking in Traveller
terms. I'd like to address the idea of Fighter Controllers, and the
idea of Point Blank (or Suicide) Attacks.

=========================

Fighter Controllers: Getting the Missiles on Target

One of the biggest problems with fighters is getting them to hit
big ships. If you put a capable computer in each fighter, the fighter
ends up being mostly computer (and power for the computer) and
is the cost of a fat trader or more - not the inexpensive force-multiplier
it should be. If you don't put such a computer on the fighter, it will never
hit it's target and will be, as one TML'er put it, merely an "ornament".

But what if the fighter can get targetting solutions from another
friendly ship, at least for missile launch and guidance? Put a minimally
capable computer in the fighter itself - perhaps enough to dogfight
another fighter with, or give it a survival chance when getting shot at
(agility + computer + size bonus vs computer + weapon battery modifiers,
you can get away with a computer three to six levels below what your
intended target has if he doesn't intend to fire ten-turret batteries at
each and every fightercraft).

Have a fighter controller, probably (though not necessarily) on board
the Carrier. Perhaps even require that this fighter controller have an
entire bridge at his disposal, especially as a  bridge in High Guard
includes communication and sensors. Let the fighters fire by
groups, with the computer value taken from the fighter controller and
the battery factor compared to the number of weapons in the fighter
group.

I only see this working with missile fire, though I have some other
ideas for energy weapon fire. 

Fighters become pretty useful - say at 15 tons each (Rampart-style
missile fighters), 20 fighters with crew take up about 500 tons.
For the cost of having another bridge (2% of ship tonnage), 
you get 2000 ship tons worth of hardpoints, not to mention all the
advantages of having fighters along - reconaissance and patrol,
for example. You could probably fit such a squadron on every
ship in your fleet that was 5000tons or larger, allowing a relatively
large fighter screen and requiring a much larger investment by your
opponent in escorts (including an interceptor screen) and point-defence
weaponry.

(Note: For this analysis and the energy weapon analysis to follow,
I ignored the effects of defensive fire by the target. I would assume
the fighters in the examples are part of a larger fighter wing,
and that you should attack a capitol ship with more fighter wings
than he has point defense/repulsors/sandcasters (for missile
attacks) or sandcasters (for energy/laser attacks). If you can't
get such numbers together, you are better off not attacking with
your fighters unless desperate - but fighters squaring off against
a Dreadnaught are in pretty desperate straits anyway...)
- ---------------------------------------
Example: Ten tech level 12 fighters, with Model/2 computers, armed
with triple missile turrets and nuclear missiles, working with a fighter
controller on a ship with a Model/6 computer. Their target is also
TL-12, has a factor-1 nuclear dampener, armored hull factor-12 and
agility-6 - it isn't large enough to be easier to hit. (Most difficult
target for this fighter group at their tech level).

Attacking individually, the fighters need 16+ to hit and can be ignored.
(factor-2 missile battery)

Attacking as a group, the fighters need 14+ to hit, and can still be
ignored (factor-6 missile battery).

Attacking with a fighter controller, the fighters need 10+ to hit.
If they hit, they'll need 5+ to get through the nuclear dampener
and will do damage on 9- on each of two seperate tables - though
one of the hits on the radiation table (Computer-1) will probably
not take effect due to the target having fiber-optic backup.

So the group will hit 17% of the time, penetrate 89% of the hits,
and do damage if they penetrate - will even do two hits 70%+
of the if they get through. This translates to the fighter group
hitting and doing damage 15% of the time. Further, they will
tie up defense batteries (1000 ship tons worth per fighter),
and any shot at them will tend to be with overkill weapons.

=====================

Suicide Attacks: Sticking the Knife In

Energy weapons on fighters, used singly, are really only useful against
other fighters. Use of mother ship targetting capabilities (Fighter
Controllers) makes sense for missile guidance, but not as much sense
for close-in attacks - and without major-league computer support,
the fighter will never hit. 

Fighter's small computer + minimal target size modifier
versus target's larger computer + agility, not even considering
sandcasters - even if you allow fighter groups to fire together as
one battery, they'll still never hit anything designed for combat.

(Note: I'm not considering sandcasters because if the fighter wing
has fewer fighters than the target has defense batteries, they shouldn't
bother with the assault anyway)

Just as Fighter Controllers give missile fighters a chance against
the better computers of a target warship, I propose Suicide Attacks
to give energy-weapon fighters a chance against the high agility
of a target ship. (The idea comes from GDW's game _Imperium_.)

Here's how it would work:

*Organize the fighters by groups - they must match, as usual, in
weapons (including weapon TL modifier), agility, and computer.
They must also be in the same range band, short range in this case.

*Declare a Suicide Attack by the fighter group.

*Have the fighters not fire during the normal combat step. Any damage
the fighters take is applied immediately. Fighters that no longer meet
the group profile due to damage (loss of computer, agility, weapons)
are not considered part of the attack group any more, though may
attack individually. 

*Recalculate the battery strength of the fighter group, if they've taken
any losses.

*Fire at point-blank range with surviving fighters. If the fighters have an
agility as high or higher than the target, do not consider the target
ship's agility when calculating to-hit rolls.

- ----------------------------------------

Example: Fifteen tech level 12 fighters with Model/2 computers and
twin pulse lasers, all agility-6,  attack a tech level 12 ship that has a
model/6 computer, armored hull factor-12 and agility-6 that is large
enough to have no size modifiers.

Firing individually, the fighters need to roll 18+ to hit. They can be
ignored (factor-1 pulse laser battery).

Firing as a group, the fighters need 15+ to hit. They can still be
safely ignored (factor-6 pulse laser battery).

Firing with a suicide attack, the fighters will need 9+ to hit, much better.
If they hit, they will need 5- to do damage - either a 1% plink at the
fuel tanks, or a loss of an entire weapon battery.

(Note that this example pits the example fighter squadron against
the toughest possible target for it's tech level - most ships
a fighter will go after, at least at TL-12, will not be maxed out in
either armor or agility.)

So in our test case, the fighters will hit 28% of the time, and do damage
some 28% of the time - against the worst possible target, the fifteen
fighter squadron above will hit and damage 8% of the time.

=======================

Conclusion:

Missile fighters with fighter controllers will hurt you about 15%
of the time or better, energy weapon fighters with point-blank
tactics will hurt you about 8% of the time or better.

Not much, sure - but too much to be safely ignored by your opponent.
Furthermore, the warship countering this must fire at each
of the fighters with an entire battery. Each ten to fifteen-ton fighter
ties up at least 1000 displacement tons of enemy weaponry (enough
to support a ten-turret battery) for at least a round. Those are
weapons that aren't shooting at your capitol ships for the round,
and are highly overkill against a fightercraft. Cold comfort for the
fighter pilots, but making enemy ships inefficient is a good thing.

To kill your fighters efficiently, your opponent will need escort
ships and interceptors. These smaller craft will be available for
patrol, reconnaissance, blockade, all the other duties fleets need
done that are too little for battleships. Now the fleets are more
capable outside of a stand-up slugfest, and fightercraft (some of
my favorite animals) get to be more than mere "ornaments".


Thoughts?


Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Deckplan Fallacies (was :Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> 	Actually, I've always counted the volume of the "stuff" as being
> included in the volume of the various systems. Thus, if you've got 14
> cubic meters of jump drive, the actual machinery is part of that, as
> is the access space around it, the ductwork, power, etc. And normal
> 8' ceilings are 2.5m, so it's not that excessive.


Has anyone noticed that the deckplans in Traders & Gunboats (LBB) have
nearly ZERO correlation with the tonnages that Book 2 (LBB) says they
should? Can someone explain where the rest of the bridge is on a
Scout/Courier? I like the way the plan is laid out, but there is supposed
to be 20 TONS of bridge there somewhere - 40 squares. Even adding in
avionics it's nowhere near enough space on the deckplan to account for
that tonnage. The other ships are just as screwy.

I don't care that much, since I'm not a gearhead, (really, I'm not!), but
I wondered if there was any reason for this that I am missing.

Ben

PS: I have never read High Guard, so maybe that's where I'm missing
something.

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:14:58 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: G:T Nicely Done.

Standing Ovation for Loren and Crew.

I could quibble about not having Major Alien charger stuff,
but I think reserving that for a separate volume is wise.
Especially if it includes _all_ the Major races, and brief
sections on the minor ones (especially the humaniti minor
races).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:42:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> writes:

> Mark Cook wrote:
> 
> > Not necessarily.  The "Tueller Drill" (which is what Erwin is describing)
> > demonstrates that, on average, an attacker with a knife can close 7m
> > and attack in ~2.0 sec.  It takes an armed defender ~2.5 sec. to
> > recognize the threat, draw a concealed sidearm, and fire 2 shoots.
> > (This, of course, assumes the defender is well-trainied.)
> 
> What about non-concealed fireams in hip-holster?
> With or without clasp fastened.

I haven't seen any statistics for those, but my time drops by
about 0.5 sec. (avg.) for an open-carry holster that has no
thumb-break restraint.  Add the thumb-break restraint to an
open-carry holster and you're back to about the same time as
for concealed (hip or small-of-back) carry w/o the thumb-break
restraint.  All of this assumes a well-trained shooter, of course.
YMMV.

> Thanks for all the great info.

My pleasure!  That's why I'm an instructor. :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:18:26 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: MT starship combat

My group of players are trying to come up w/ a ship of thier very own, and the
only thing they find they can afford is an old fusion-rocket powered hull
(TL9).  Looking over the rules from Hard Times, I find that I am becoming very
interested in the low-tech approach to starships.  The one problem I am
running into (PC's being what they are) is weaponry.  In order to keep cost
down, the power plant needs to be small...but this completely rules out
standard weapons (Beam or Pulse lasers take 250Mw per weapon, this jacks the
size of a powerplant up very quickly)  I am more than willing to use the
standard weapons from MT Refs guide (Weapon step 26 and 26); this actually
make perfect civilian-grade weapons, IMO.  But they cannot be rated to use w/
the MT/HG combat system, and I can't quite figure out how they would work
using the vehicle combat rules.  The requirement for a min hull armor value of
40 also seems to render them nearly useless...and there really is no guidance
on missiles, other than the offhand mention somewhere that they use
150mm HiVel warheads...nothing on nukes.  

Does anyone have any ideas or info that they used in thier MT games?  I want
to get away from the HG combat system for PCs...the idea being that when a
real warship shows up, the party is over; everyone out of the pool.  Any info
or ideas would be extremely helpful.

Thanks in advance, 
DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:00:10 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: RE: HIWG CD

>     What is this CD you are talking about and, if it's interesting to me,
>how do I order one?

	An old index is on my website:

	members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller

	Currently a collection of 360+ megabytes of Traveller material.

	Cost is $20 total.


Bryan J. Borich
3890 50th street
San Diego, CA 92105-3005

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:26:35 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller

I got it in the mail (well, USPS Priority) today  - I really like it.
Whether I like GURPS is another matter, but the book looks great! The
art is awesome - it takes me right back to the good ol' days(tm).

Marc, whetver you do with T5, please let it look as nice as GURPS
Traveller.

Also, in case no one noticed, there'a a new "Author Solicitation Page"
at SJ Games - http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/
Anyone want to write any of the following?

 GURPS Traveller -- Aliens II: Aslan and K'kree
 GURPS Traveller -- Aliens III: Hiver and Droyne
 GURPS Traveller -- Aliens IV: 20 Minor Races 
 GURPS Traveller -- Diplomacy and Espionage 
 GURPS Traveller -- Imperial Army 
 GURPS Traveller -- Imperial Navy 
 GURPS Traveller -- Solomani Rim 
 GURPS Traveller -- Starports and Starbases 
 GURPS Traveller -- Trade & Commerce 

Also, it seems that in addition to 'Behind the Claw', 'Aliens vol.I' is
already in production, or has been accepted at any rate.

Wishing there were more hours in the day,
Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:33:31 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Hello?

Is the TML still up or did I get unsubbed or something or is the traffic just
quite unusually low?

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:09:29 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #849

     On the transponder question:
          There has to be a way to remove these items or even to reprogram
them, or the imperials would hear from the Mayberry long after it had been
sold remodelled and had become the Andy Griffith.  I realise that the
process would not be easy or available to the general public, but if you
screw with enough transponders you will eventually figure it out.  Pirates
will have the time, the motivation, and more than likely the transponders
to practice on.  If your pirates are not independents, but part of a larger
organisation, you can almost guarantee that they will decipher the
transponder codes at some point, or just purchase a black box from an old
military vessel and gain the ability to change their signal at will.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:35:16 -0500
From: "Pat Connaughton" <pconnaught@primary.net>
Subject: Test

test

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:46:25 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1998 #827

>3. Detonation laser missiles are apparently available at TL 8. What
>constitutes 'short range' ?

For a TL-8 missile, probably hundreds of km (up to a few thousand for 
higher TL versions.) 

of course, I would personally move det-lasers to TL9, Edward Teller
notwithstanding...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:01:42 -0500
From: Kevin Roberts <kr23st00@apex.net>
Subject: Travler Adventure

Could someone send me a T4 Travler First contact adventure?
Or where I can down load this type of adventures?



end of line...........

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:29:25 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Cargo filling (Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

>On the other hand, when all the passengers are delivered, this craft can be
>used to carry conventional cargo and regular passengers with a minor refit.
>The Staten Island can too, but how many worlds (under canon rules) can fill
>a 4 million ton ship with cargo? (then again, how many can fill a 40,000
>ton ship?)
>
IMTU I have used the cargo availability rules as the random stuff left over that didn't go by major carrier.  The major carriers (Tukera, Imperalines, etc.) have large contracts for much of the stuff that goes from world to world.  They may routinely take 40 000 tons (displacement) from here to there every day for many of the lesser worlds, and millions of tons per day for major worlds.  What tramp freighters pick up using the rules is the left overs, or the special orders, or the stuff that is too small a
lot for the large carriers, or that has special handling requirements, or the few tons that the really tiny population worlds may generate, etc.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:04:08 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)

>Fighter Controllers: Getting the Missiles on Target ...

<snippity>

>Suicide Attacks: Sticking the Knife In ...

<snip>

>Conclusion:...
>
>Missile fighters with fighter controllers will hurt you about 15%
>of the time or better, energy weapon fighters with point-blank
>tactics will hurt you about 8% of the time or better. ...

<snip>

>Thoughts?

Mmm ... I think you ought to consider instituting morale roles for fighter
pilots with this strategy.

"Okay boys, you've got an eight to fifteen percent chance to be effective
in this fight, and most of you are going to end up dead anyway. Do all of
you have your estates in order? You do? Well then, go get 'em!"

:-)

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:25:31 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: [none]

Subscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:52:20 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Test, ignore

Just checking to see if I am still on the list. Do not reply to this.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:28:38 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Earth calling...

Did the hurricane really waste the TML, or is it just my imagination?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 98 14:05:31 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

On 09/24/98 at 05:45 AM,  "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> said:

>Here's my review:

>None of the game stores around here will have it for another week! 
>I'm  so pissed.

I stopped by my NSFLGS yesterday and asked about GURPS Traveller.  I
got blank looks from the black-garbed goth behind the counter, a
shrug and an "I don't know" from the wargame geek stocking the
shelves, and snorts from the card clowns throwing popcorn at each
other at the gaming table.  I always stop by to look for new stuff,
ask if they're expecting/or will special order, get nowhere, and so
end up ordering by mail.  <sigh>

That's my review of the state of the gaming hobby.

Reviewing, GT will have to wait until I get my hands on a copy. ;->


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:49:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

In mail you write:

> I remember the great pains I had to go to to explain picas (1/12th of an 
> inch) to apprentices, they just could not visualise the unit.

And then you hit them with agates, right? :-)

I happen to own a printer's ruler. I bought it by mistake 25 years
back, but kept it because the pica scale was just *too* useful for 25mm
miniatures. And it also drove players nuts when I'd hand them a map and
the measurements on it didn't "make sense". Mapping at 7 or 14 feet to the
inch (using agates) or 6 or 12 feet to the inch using picas makes for a
mapp that they can't just lay a ruler on and read off the distances
(unless they know the secret).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:15:13 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Cargo filling (Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

     Sounds reasonable, but anyone who is starting a colony of 1 million
will have any cargo available on that planet since more than likely it's
that planets government.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:10:00 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Virus Attack?

Are we back up? <g>

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:20:11 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

At 08:07 pm 9/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>David J. Golden wrote:
>> 
>> At 10:04 am 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> >If I should find myself with the prospect of facing a gunmen, my
>> preferred
>> >weapon would be mercenaries.
>> 
>>         Mine would be a Mk21 thermonuclear warhead, reentering at
hypersonic
>> speeds from half a world away ...
>
>Unless, of course, you needed the resources at ground zero....  ;-)

	The universe is big, plenty of other places to look ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:25:03 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)

     I'm with you!  If his efficiency is so low he need some real help in
the fighter area.  The fighters I have designed are 50-ton monsters with 3
450-MJ spinal lasers that do 1/17-53 which is usually more than enough to
get through most armored ships and still have enough left to cause some
damage.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:25:43 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Earth calling...

Could be, seems no one is here.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:27:26 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
>
> I stopped by my NSFLGS yesterday and asked about GURPS Traveller.  I
> got blank looks from the black-garbed goth behind the counter

Well, _my_ FLGS did have it! Also they had a decent collection of IG
books for those of you looking. Single copies only, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that was all they had.

They had : Pocket Empires, FFS2, Aliens Archive, Milieu 0, First Survey,
Milieu 0 campaign, Psionic institutes, Naval Architects handbook,
Missions of State, Long Way Gome, Gateway, Emperors Arsenal, Central
Supply catalog, and probably one or two others I'm forgetting. They also
had a few TNE books there, too: A boxed set, a couple of copies of Path
of Tears, a couple of others. 

This is "Things for Thinkers" in Tucson, AZ. 

I'm reading through G:T now; review forthcoming, but so far I'm pleased
with it.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #851
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 852



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Metric and GT
Re: Ship's business
MT Combat (Was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #847)
tests.
Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)
HtoH in Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Dogfight (was re: Fighters (High Guard)
re: Rocketry 100
Re: Money
GURPS Traveller starship
Re: Planet Stuff (was - Re: Traveller Text Adventures)
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
re: Fighters (High Guard)
hello?
Test
Re: Revised Psionic Institutes Checklist
Re: Money
Re: Virus Attack?
GURPS Traveller impressions
re: Fighters (High Guard)
GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:58:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

In mail you write:

> A few more thoughts on damage from radiation.  If these neutrons and gamma
> rays reach the (shielded poewrplant) and penetrate then there is the danger
> of melt down or worse.  given that energy doubling takes only tiny
> fractions of a second, the reactor may well melt down, or if ecited enough
> actually go critical.  Since the shiled will be warm anyway, the sudden
> influx of heat build up may cause structural failure of the reactors
> containment facility.  If I can work out the details I will post the results.

You are confusing fission and fusion reactors. Fusion reactors *don't*
"go critical". They only produce power because you are *forcing* the
reaction to take place (by supplying enough heat & pressure). 

So if something goes wrong, the reactor will shut down. Extra neutrons
or gammas aren't going to affect the reaction much.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 98 16:21:47 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

On 09/24/98 at 11:58 PM,  steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> said:

>> >> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
>> >>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.
>> >
>> Being in school at the time of the change in Canada. I can remember the
>> "ease" of the change. In a space of 5 years all signs in my area changed to
>> metric. In school the change was a lot faster, over the summer holidays in
>> 75/76, and you used metric only. IMO it was some what draconian in
>> implementing but it worked.

>If they tried that in the US, there would be so many law suits, so
>fast, your head would spin.  Intentional infliction of emotion
>distress by confusing children and making them learn evil measuring
>systems, making them feel foolish when they have difficulty.

Hee!  There would be much talk about "international conspiracies,
"The New World Order", the United Nations, and "black helicopter"
sightings.  ;-> Oh, yeah, there already *is* a lot of that talk
around here...;-p

OB Trav...Imperial Calender Compliance Enforcement Agency, ie the
Imperial Marine Corps.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:21:55 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ship's business

Christopher Thrash writes:

>One of the reasons for the ongoing debate about transponders seems to be
>the notion that one black box is the basis for all decisions on the
>legality of ship's operations.

One reason for this is that a long time ago someone claimed that a busy port
would be unable to check all the ships that came along. Rather than argue
about that (I disagreed) I tried to argue that a dodgy transponder signal
would get you singled out for a check. Not at every port, of course  --
sometimes the authorities would be to lazy to bother anyway  --  but sooner
or later, and all it takes to finish a not-so-promising piratical career is
once.

[Btw. excellent essay about what other identificantion a ship would be
carrying around. I completely agree with you.]


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:43:10 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: MT Combat (Was Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #847)

Leo Hale posted:
>
>To Smart David J
>     I agree that a characters skill should also factor into the amount of
>damage able to be inflicted with a weapon.  A novice might by accident
>score a very successful/damaging hit, but someone trained to be lethal
>should have more chance of high damage than that novice.  The same applies
>to gun combat in a way.  Someone trained as an expert marksman will hit
>more often than someone who is a novice and will also hit targets in more
>damaging places.  I think the penalty for called shots (aiming) should be
>lowered by a fraction of the characters gun skill.  Otherwise you marksman
>will hit more often than you novice, but only in location decided upon by
>the roll of a die.

Now this is something I hadn't thought about. Thanks, Leo; I'll play
around with the idea.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:47:13 +1200
From: Blair Lynch-Blosse <blairlb@waikato.ac.nz>
Subject: tests.

Hi there,

Testing.......

Bye there.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:42:51 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)

At 12:15 PM 9/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I was perusing my copy of Star Fleet Battles, noted the bits on
>early fighter shuttles - how they could launch more missiles than they
>could control, and would need missile guidance support from either
>their carrier or another friendly ship. This got me thinking in Traveller
>terms. I'd like to address the idea of Fighter Controllers, and the
>idea of Point Blank (or Suicide) Attacks.
>
>=========================
>

There is a beter and more reallistic solution.  I am a GURPS player by
preference and in the computer equipment lists is a discribtion of the
concept of the dedicated computer.  A computer not built to do everything
but one built to do only one job of a series of closely related jobs (like
control a fighters systems).  I am also a electronics engineer and I can
tell you from personal experience that dedicated computers are the way the
real world deals with things like fighters and misiles.  No fighter would
mount a Cray II.  The avionic package is built for that fighter or a series
of fighters with it's programs in firmware.  It is a fraction of the size of
the generalist computer that it would take to do the same joke because it's
purpose built with NO extranious stuff, like game capabilities of
spreadsheets or data bases or modems...

This means that the computer can be much smaller and cheaper in quanties but
costs as much as a totally new design would cost to build in low quantities.
It also limits choices.  The computer are built with say manuver/evade 3,
Gunner 3,  Predic 3, LAZER gunner 3, Misile gunner 5 and that IS HOW THEY
ARE.  Want something else buy a whole new computer and maybe have to pay an
EE to design it for you though most things should be available if you don't
mind having to pay for some things you don't want or need.  Also most modern
day fighter have very limited selections of avionic mostly those that were
originally built into them with some upgrades/drop in replacements available
from refiter.

So from a GM point of view, if a player wants a fighter we get the dedicated
computer the fighter was built with unless he custom orders one for many
MCs!  You as GM can say what the Rampart's avionic have but use reason.
Don't have a ship armed with lazer not have the computer to aim them or a
ship that carries no misiles with misile gunner 5...unless of course the
arms dealer stuck a suplus computer from a diferent model craft into a
fighter just so he could pawn it off on some pour traveller but the Al's
Used Military woundn'y do something like that now would they...

Note that in the case of dedicated computers the programs can and usually
are VERY specific.  IE limited to the weapons the fighter was designed to
carry and in the case of manuvering to the fighter design itself.  This make
the programs themselves simpler/smaller due to the smaller number of
variables they have to deal with but then, they don't work well and maybe
not at all with equipment they were not designed to control.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:12:32 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: HtoH in Traveller

>The officer safety classes for the police here in Calgary teach that, if you
>haven't drawn your weapon, and you're facing a man with a knife who is 
>within 30 feet of you, you're in deep trouble. Your opponent will be able
to close and
>attack before your gun will clear its holster.

 This is certainly true if the opponent is a *trained* fighter.  Covering
ground quickly is something drilled into fencers.  Other martial arts I've
(been) kicked around taught methods to quickly cover ground while attacking.

>I don't recall if the basic MT rules give a penalty for drawing a weapon, but
>they certainly don't allow for this case. The police officer, wouldn't be
able
>to interrupt the guy with the knife. My players and I discussed this, and
>tweaked it so that the police officer is not considered "engaged in HTH
combat"
>until the knife-wielder actually attacks. That way he _can_ attempt an
>interrupt.

  How you handle initiative would have a lot to do with this.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
      Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:47:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Also, it seems that in addition to 'Behind the Claw', 'Aliens vol.I' is
> already in production, or has been accepted at any rate.

The manuscript for Aliens Vol. 1 is apparantly due real soon (I can't
remember what was said on the chat with the auther - David Pulver is
writing it BTW), I think this week.  Its going to be Zhodani and Vargr,
plus three minor races from thier area of space.  The minor races are
rewrites of races from Pulver's Aliens and Artifacts from ICE.  

I expect that the playtest will be up in a couple of weeks if I remembered
the dates correctly.

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:46:50 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Dogfight (was re: Fighters (High Guard)

Joseph Dietrich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mmm ... I think you ought to consider instituting morale roles for fighter
pilots with this strategy.

"Okay boys, you've got an eight to fifteen percent chance to be effective
in this fight, and most of you are going to end up dead anyway. Do all of
you have your estates in order? You do? Well then, go get 'em!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<Sound of horde of fighter pilots running for the escape pods...> :)

Recall that the effectiveness calculations were based on a
"Death Star without the exhaust port" type target - the most dangerous
target available at the tech level. A target with less armor, a poorer
computer or less agility will increase effectiveness by tens of percent for 
each factor in the fighter's favor.

Another item I was considering: Dogfight rules.

Dogfights occur when two opposing ships declare Point Blank
attacks on each other. When this occurs, the dogfighting ships
must undergo fire from all sources besides each other. They cannot fire
at any target except the one they are closing with. If they survive,
they perform simultaneous attacks on each other.

Dogfight modifiers to hit:

+ Relative computer rating
+ _Relative_ Agility
+/- Target Size Modifier
- -1 Missiles at short range (all dogfights are at short range)

Note that the major change is the substitution of Relative Agility for
Agility in the to-hit modifier. Two equally-matched laser fighters of
agility-6 once needed 14+ or worse to hit each other, now they need
8+ or better odds - much, much bloodier.

Also note that capitol ships and such could theoretically dogfight
an opponent, but it may not be a good idea.

Optional rule ideas:

Dogfight Break-Off: If two ships dogfight each other, they will stay at point
blank range with each other for each combat round until one or both
breaks off. Break-offs are declared at the end of each damage allocation
step. If both craft break off, they act normally next combat round. If
only one breaks off, the other gets one attack, as a normal Point Blank
attack (target's agility not counted in attack modifier).

Note that Dogfight Break-Off may keep a fighter from wanting to become
engaged in a dogfight, especially if he is close to home or otherwise
setting up an escape.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:52:43 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Rocketry 100

Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are confusing fission and fusion reactors. Fusion reactors *don't*
"go critical". They only produce power because you are *forcing* the
reaction to take place (by supplying enough heat & pressure). 

So if something goes wrong, the reactor will shut down. Extra neutrons
or gammas aren't going to affect the reaction much.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Finally read an Honor Harrington book. Loved the space opera in
_On Basilisk Station_, kinda did a "huh?" when the fusion reactor
went critical on _Fearless_ and killed a bunch of people.

Especially since they were "Scramming" it at the time. Didn't the
Chief Engineer have the off switch handy?  ;)

Reading _Honor of the Queen_ now...this series could get expensive...

Love our Honor...


Walt Smith

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:37:06 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Money

Jim Clem writes:

>IMTU, the base unit of money is the Confederate Solar, which is defined 
>as being equivalent in worth to 1/100th of an ounce of gold.

IMTU the base unit is the planetary credit, equivalent to 1/10,000th of
the average yearly production of its citizens. It is also, roughly, the
amount of money an unskilled manual laborer recieves (after accounting
fortaxes and dependents) for one hour's work under standard conditions.
The Imperial Credit (CrImp) is equivalent to the credit of Capital.

The money is backed by the economies of the issuing governments. Money
is, in effect, generalized promisory notes.

>...any transfers between worlds are handled by either gold itself (all
>the pirates begin to drool) but mostly by securely (we hope) coded data
>cards.

The transfer of wealth between planets are accomplished by transferring
real wealth (ie. goods) bteween planets. The money is merely promisory
notes. It can be in the form of bank notes or any other sort of (hopefully
secure) data transmission.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 06:26:27 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller starship

	This is based on the Extended Duration Survey Vessel from the adventure A
LONG WAY HOME, which I believe was originally designed by Liam McCauley.
This makes a good little ship for a group of PC's, with an extended jump
capability and some teeth for combat.

EXTENDED DURATION SURVEY VESSEL

300-ton SL hull, DR 200, Basic Bridge, Engineering, 45 Maneuver, 9 Jump,
120 Fuel, 1 Spacedock hangar (holds up to 250 cf air raft), Basic Emissions
Cloaking, 5 Staterooms, Utility, 1 Lab, 1.25 Fuel Processors (10 tons per
hour), 3 Turrets with 3x TL-10 Turret lasers, 1x Missle rack with 77
missles, 1x Sandcaster with 200 canisters. Cargo 34.25

Statistics: EMass 695.2 tons, LMass 902.2 tons, Cost Mcr 41.1, HP Hull
30,000, Turrets 1,200 each. Hull Size Modifier +9

Performance: Accel 2 Gs, Jump 2, Air Speed 2,449.5 mph.

Crew Minimum 2, standard 6, maximum 8.

NOTES: Computers: 3x TL-10 mainframes, Complexity 7. Standard programs
include Astrogation (Complexity 3), Datalink (Complexity 1), Targeting +8
(Complexity 7), Library Data, Damage Control (Complexity 2), Technical
Database. Programs with no complexity listed are databases.

Vehicles Carried: 1 standard air raft

Designer's Notes: I built the hull using GURPS Vehicles 2nd edition and the
instructions in GURPS Traveller, as the hull table did not have a 300 ton
hull. I also extrapolated with the fuel processor (thus the 1.25 figure) to
get the same 10 tons per hour fuel processing capability as the original.


Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:23:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Planet Stuff (was - Re: Traveller Text Adventures)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Let our "greenhouse" effect run away, and we might wind up like Venus too.
>
> This reminds me about ice ages.
>
> I know that our seasons are caused by the axial tilt.  But does it play
> a role in ice ages too?  Just curious.

Some. The axial tilt and a couple other things vary on *long* cycles.
These are thought to play a part in ice ages.

> My other question/point:
> Shouldn't a lot of planets be in an ice age at any given time?
> Assuming most livable planets have ice ages.

Not necessarily. Ice ages require a balance of sorts. Get a bit too far
out and you get a *permanent* ice age. A bit closer in and you hardly
ever get ice.

> And if they don't have ice ages, won't they have relatively smooth
> worlds (from lack of moving glaciers) except from tectonic activity,
> i.e., volcanoes and mountain ranges.

Actually, glacier smooth things out more than they create relief.

> IIRC, most of the big flood
> plains, like the Great Plains of the US, were caused by glaciation,
> so without that factor, large and agriculturally fertile areas might be
> smaller and concentrated? 

Much of the Great plains used to be *sea bottom*. Shallow sea, but sea,
none the less. 

Remember that tectonic plates tend to be *flat* except at the edges
that have run into other plates. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:04:38 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

>
>Being a stone-cold devout atheist in the bible-belt earned me a few
>good beat downs.
>
>Intolerance has many faces.
>
>Bloo
>
>

And vice versa today in the courts in america...  Intolerance and 
persecution *by* atheists is at an all time high...
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:01:06 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Fighters (High Guard)

Leo Hale wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     I'm with you!  If his efficiency is so low he need some real help in
the fighter area.  The fighters I have designed are 50-ton monsters with 3
450-MJ spinal lasers that do 1/17-53 which is usually more than enough to
get through most armored ships and still have enough left to cause some
damage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rules sets, rules sets - these efficiency estimates are based on
2nd Edition CT High Guard, not that numerical nightmare FF&S. <G>

Remember, the problem in the High Guard rules wasn't so much
that fighters couldn't hurt a battlecruiser, the fighters couldn't
HIT a battlecruiser. Proper space opera requires the reverse to be
true, thus the optional rules for High Guard that I presented.

If the fighters can hit the battlecruiser, High Guard rules have most
of the damage confined to weapons. I could easily see these
representing sensor hits and turret damage, minor surface stuff,
perfect for the nibbling to death fighters should be able to do to
a capital ship.

I'll bet quite a few FF&S people on the list would be happy to show
you armored FF&S warships that would take on your "50 ton monsters"
and hand you your head.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 06:53:56 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: hello?

Just wondering why there were so few messages over the weekend.  
Usually i've got 200+ and there were only a few.
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:24:00 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Test

Just checking to see in Hurricane Georges has passed yet.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:08:55 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Revised Psionic Institutes Checklist

Suzette C. Dollar <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> writes
>> While we're discussing Psionic Institutes, here's the final revision of
>> my PI checklist.  Joe Walsh and Suzette Dollar were going to produce
>> this for GenCon 97, but I guess they ran out of time.
>
>Looks nice.  Just for the record though, I worked up 
>something for PE not PI. It was submitted to IG for 
>possible print and dist at Gencon, but I never saw anything 
>come of it... which is probably for the best because 
>despite my efforts, I still managed to miss a formula or 
>two. Perhaps if I have time, I'll dig it back up, fix it 
>and give it to someone to put up on a webpage.

Oh, OK.  Checking back, what Joe actually said was
> May I have permission to photocopy your PI checklist for free
> distribution at GenCon, provided you are credited within the document?
> Suz is developing a comprehensive set of "in a nut shell" sheets for
> Pocket Empires for this purpose, and I think having your PI checklist
> would be a good compliment to that.

My memory translated that as the two of you working on a series of 
hand-outs.  Sorry for the confusion!

Hope to see your PE stuff some day...

John
 
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) ru--(+) ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++
Various Traveller IS Forms: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Money

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
> 
> IMTU the base unit is the planetary credit, equivalent to 1/10,000th of
> the average yearly production of its citizens. It is also, roughly, the
> amount of money an unskilled manual laborer recieves (after accounting
> fortaxes and dependents) for one hour's work under standard conditions.
> The Imperial Credit (CrImp) is equivalent to the credit of Capital.

Thus being canon-correct, and economically nonsensical, as these two values are
(a) subject to significant differences depending on how they are computed, (b)
not strongly linked in any case, and (c) not under the control of the
government, which is what is issuing the money ((c) has more to do with
political nonsense than economic).  For example, this means that a 'united
states credit' is worth somewhere between zero (many unskilled laborers make no
money after accounting for taxes and dependents) to about 80 cents
(GNP/population) to about $4.50 (minimum wage for a worker with no dependents;
someone at minimum wage generally pays zero taxes).  It is also subject to
significant lag based on census figures, etc, and gives the government
essentially zero leeway to control the economy.  
> 
> The transfer of wealth between planets are accomplished by transferring
> real wealth (ie. goods) bteween planets. The money is merely promisory
> notes. It can be in the form of bank notes or any other sort of (hopefully
> secure) data transmission.

While in the long term this tends to be true, due to the way currency markets
work, in the short term this will probably not be true.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:16:45 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Virus Attack?

I never new we were down.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:04:46 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: GURPS Traveller impressions

Some comments on GURPS Traveller, now that we're back up:

Some of the art inside is reprinted DGP-era material.  Milieu Zero folks
will be interested in the pyramidal structures on page 32; that's the 
original Grand Palace of Cleon I from TD #9.  Plenty of art is new, like
the pictures of Iphigenaia and Iolanthe.

People worried about the death of the UWP needn't fear.  A page is set
aside to detail the layout of the standard UWP for the GURPS folks.

Every now and then they get tangled up in whether they're talking in
GURPS or Traveller; is it TL12 or TL15?  Is it a class-V starport or
a class-A starport?  It isn't too bad sorting it out, though, since
there are Traveller-to-GURPS conversion tables.  Instructions for 
converting characters from any version of Traveller to GURPS are also
included.  Classical-era fans will be happy to see the return of the
triple turret!

Seeing the Type-S scout/courier deckplans done on top of a one-yard
scale hexgrid is a bit peculiar, mind you....

  -- Steve Bonneville 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:04:38 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: re: Fighters (High Guard)

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> on 09/28/98 02:01:06 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   "'TML'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  re: Fighters (High Guard)




<Snip>
>I'll bet quite a few FF&S people on the list would be happy to show
>you armored FF&S warships that would take on your "50 ton monsters"
>and hand you your head.

>Walt Smith

     Yes I'm sure there are, my previous post never said they could take on
large armoured ship on their lonesome.  I just said that the fighters I
have developed do indeed have an effect in combat.  There would be no point
in creating fighters for Traveller if they were unable to cause any damage
to ships, better to spend your resources on combat ships that can.  Since
they can indeed cause damage to armoured ships they have an important roll
in combat just as there forefather the fighter plane did in ship combat.  A
single ship in any size class can only have so much armour and weapon
systems, but with the addition of fighters the number of weapons is
increased and there are then that many more targets to confuse they enemies
gunners.  Even if you run that the fighters can do nothing more than "scrub
the hull clean" of antennas and turrets they are more than helpful.  If the
ship has no antenna then they can't cordinate with other ships, nor should
they be able to target your ships, nor even set a course for jump.  With no
weapons systems, turrets, they will be very much reduced in combat.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:08:53 -0400
From: cmdrx <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...

Well, now that TML is back up time to say something about GT...

Iridium plated kudos to Loren, Steve, and the gang on a job well done!

I have been trying to find errors in the book, only a few minor editing
glips.  This is definitely NOT IG!
The background is rich, plenty of pictures, a very playable system, and
DECK PLANS!!!  Yes, deck plans of the Suleiman and Beowulf class ships,
it was like a reunion with old friends! ;-)

But the best part of course (speaking as a gear head) is the ship design
system.  Very nice, and quick to use.  The rules are based on High
Guard, they brought back harpoints (1 weapon per 100 tons displacement)
which will limit some of the insanity we have seen on THUDDD (it was
good while it lasted)  As a matter of fact, you could almost take a HG
ship and convert to GT w/o problem, I have.  Also, the system is fully
compatible with the Vehicles system, so any module made in vehicles can
be used for the ship system. Excellent!

And now enough of the review, time for the shameless plug...

The Following is a Shameless Plug(tm) from X-TEK Industries of Deneb LIC

The year is 1120 and X-TEK is still strong!
Even after the tragic destruction of Planet X during the Civil War,
X-TEK still exists to provide quality high performance military,
paramilitary and civilian small starships and spacecraft.  X-TEK also
maintains a weapons development and research division on Vincennes,
researching new and better ways to defend the Imperium from all threats,
foreign and domestic.  X-TEK also takes the surplus military
technologies, cuts out the middleman, and passes the savings down to the
civilian market.

Login to "Planet X", the X-TEK infoserver at any Type A or B starport
and click the X-TEK icon.  Catalogs for ships and products from the
ancient period, before and after the 5th Frontier war are available. 
Don't forget to read X-TEK's remarkable history and current listing of
News Releases for latest corporate information.

Imperial Infonet Address Code: http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/x.htm
Imperial X-Boat Delivery code: cmdrx@magicnet.net

This concludes this Shameless Plug(tm) From X-TEK Industries of Deneb,
LIC

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #852
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 853



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: hello?
re: Rocketry 100
[GT] "PF Sloan" fleet escort
Re: X Boat Transmission test - Kind off
GURPS Traveller ship 
Re: Polls (was-Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: MT Hand-to-Hand
Re: GURPS Traveller
RE: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...
Re: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...
Re: Imperial calendar
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Ship's Business (was re: Transponders) [long]
Apologies
firearm safety and technology
[none]
[none]
Re: [GT] "PF Sloan" fleet escort
Re: Counting in Hexidecimal (was: Re: Metric and GT)
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:08:49 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: hello?

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Robert Biggar Iii wrote:

> Just wondering why there were so few messages over the weekend.  
> Usually i've got 200+ and there were only a few.

One word: Hurricane

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:31:16 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: re: Rocketry 100

     Remember the big red button she hit just before it blew?  That's all
the off switch she had since damage to that area of the ship screwed the
control systems.  She was trying to safely turn it off when all hell broke
loose again and she then went for the button to dump the plant, only she
was just a little on the late side there.
     Have read all the books in the Honor series so far (Just spend the
heavy cash for the newest hard bound and have enjoyed all of them.  Another
series he writes starts with the book Mutineers Moon, also a great series.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:46:26 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
Subject: [GT] "PF Sloan" fleet escort

This is a prototype GURPS Traveller conversion of the classic "PF Sloan"-
class fleet escort from "Supplement 9: Fighting Ships", probably originally
designed by Tim Brown.  

"PF Sloan"-class 5000-ton Fleet Escort (TL12)

The "Sloan" class of fleet escorts are small and lightly armed vessels
by Imperial Navy standards.  They are deployed in quantity for squadron
or fleet security, but are not intended to withstand a major assault.

  CREW: Captain (Leadership and Tactics), Pilot (Pilot [spacecraft]),
Navigator (Astrogation), Commo Operator (Electronics Ops [communication]),
two Sensor Operators (Electronics Ops [sensors]), Computer Operator
(Computer Ops/Programming), Screen Operator (Electronics Ops [force field]),
eight Engineers (Engineering and Mechanic), four Missile Gunners (Gunnery
[missile]), thirty Laser Gunners (Gunnery [laser]), two Medics (Diagnosis,
Physician, and Surgery).
  5000-ton SL Hull, DR 3401, two Missile Bays, thirty Turrets with three
405 MJ lasers each, Hardened Command Bridge, Engineering, 1271 Maneuver,
250 Jump, 2000 Fuel, 157.5 Vehicle Bay (holds three 50-ton Modular Cutters),
Radical Stealth, Radical Emission Control, Heavy Compartmentalization,
30 Meson Screen (DR 4245), 32 Nuclear Dampers (35 mile range), 10 Utility,
33 Staterooms, Sickbay, 40 cargo.

STATISTICS:  EMass 21903, LMass 22730, Cost MCr 2150.2, HP 220500.
             Hull Size Modifier: +11.

PERFORMANCE: Accel empty 5.8G/5.6G loaded, Jump 4, Air Speed 8052 mph.

 ======

Design was fairly straightforward.  The number of meson screen and
nuclear damper modules are based on the displacement of the MS-2 and ND-2
in MegaTraveller.  Acceleration is thrust/mass based; for a military
vessel armor and cargo affect acceleration the most.  This prototype
conversion should probably have slightly less armor to get acceleration
up closer to the original 6G; it's currently at 2x.  For people who
haven't seen GT yet, the ship is _GURPS_ TL12, or Traveller TL15.  I'm
not sure that my reading of the compartmentalization rule was correct.
The modular cutters were assumed to be equipped with weapons modules.
As in the original design, the ship is streamlined but no fuel purifiers 
are provided.

  -- Steve Bonneville

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:53:55 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: X Boat Transmission test - Kind off

dom@cybergoths.u-net.com writes:
>Sorry to waste bandwidth, but is the TML Digest still operational? I've
>not
>seen anything since Thursday?

Neither have I, and I urgently need a question answered.

I have one day (today) until I have to have a complete list of all new
material I need to teach [physics _next_ year. Do any of you know of any
scientific probes that connect to a PC, or other neat stuff I can look at?

Many hurried thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:14:34 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller ship 

	This is based on the Extended Duration Survey Vessel from the adventure A
LONG WAY HOME, which I believe was originally designed by Liam McCauley.
This makes a good little ship for a group of PC's, with an extended jump
capability and some teeth for combat.

EXTENDED DURATION SURVEY VESSEL

300-ton SL hull, DR 200, Basic Bridge, Engineering, 45 Maneuver, 9 Jump,
120 Fuel, 1 Spacedock hangar (holds up to 250 cf air raft), Basic Emissions
Cloaking, 5 Staterooms, Utility, 1 Lab, 1.25 Fuel Processors (10 tons per
hour), 3 Turrets with 3x TL-10 Turret lasers, 1x Missle rack with 77
missles, 1x Sandcaster with 200 canisters. Cargo 34.25

Statistics: EMass 695.2 tons, LMass 902.2 tons, Cost Mcr 41.1, HP Hull
30,000, Turrets 1,200 each. Hull Size Modifier +9

Performance: Accel 2 Gs, Jump 2, Air Speed 2,449.5 mph.

Crew Minimum 2, standard 6, maximum 8.
1x Captain, 1x Pilot, 1x Navigator, 1x Engineer, 3x Gunners, 1x Scientist

NOTES: Computers: 3x TL-10 mainframes, Complexity 7. Standard programs
include Astrogation (Complexity 3), Datalink (Complexity 1), Targeting +8
(Complexity 7), Library Data, Damage Control (Complexity 2), Technical
Database. Programs with no complexity listed are databases.

Vehicles Carried: 1 standard air raft

Designer's Notes: I built the hull using GURPS Vehicles 2nd edition and the
instructions in GURPS Traveller, as the hull table did not have a 300 ton
hull. I also extrapolated with the fuel processor (thus the 1.25 figure) to
get the same 10 tons per hour fuel processing capability as the original.

Allen

P.S. Does TravTech still exist, and can someone send me subscription info?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:02:33 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Polls (was-Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:56:29 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Polls (was-Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

jim clem wrote:

> One single comment on your president (he's sure not MINE!!) and his so
> called polls;
>
> A poll is only able to be useful if you have FOUR pieces of data;

One poll I heard reported on CNN, IIRC.
====
big snip
====

Ob Trav.:  Would polls be relevant at all on an interstellar scale?
Seems like a good reason to use a feudal structure for Imperium
management.  "Damn the Polls! I'm th Duke!"

Bloo
=======
Wow, I hadn't heard that one.  Well, my estimation of CNN just went up a 
point, well, maybe half a point.

Jim

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:18:57 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand

Bloo posted:
>
>Mark Cook wrote:
>
>> Not necessarily.  The "Tueller Drill" (which is what Erwin is describing)
>> demonstrates that, on average, an attacker with a knife can close 7m
>> and attack in ~2.0 sec.  It takes an armed defender ~2.5 sec. to
>> recognize the threat, draw a concealed sidearm, and fire 2 shoots.
>> (This, of course, assumes the defender is well-trainied.)
>
>What about non-concealed fireams in hip-holster?
>With or without clasp fastened.

Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".

There was also a hi-tech version, called the "Power Holster", mentioned
in the Death World trilogy novels. It would flip a weapon the size of
a small 9mm (!) from the forearm into the hand, with enough force to rip
through regular cloth, faster than the eye could blink.

Required a lot of training and some hefty muscle on the arm (the
wearer was from a standard atmosphere, heavy grav world where
*everything* tries to kill you) but it was standard to remove the
weapon's trigger guard. This allowed the weapon to fire as soon as it
hit the hand just by crooking the trigger finger back when the holster
was activated. Like I said, it required a *LOT* of training; the
character started training when he was 7 years old! Given that the
character could hit a sparrow in flight without a thought (can you 
say "Handgun-6"?), this thing is like having a lightning bolt in
your finger tip. Talk about "point and shoot".

BTW, one of the old White Dwarf issues had CT stats for this thing as
part of an article on weapons for Traveller. I'll hunt 'em up and post
them tonight if anyone is interested.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:27:44 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>Also, it seems that in addition to 'Behind the Claw', 'Aliens vol.I' is
>already in production, or has been accepted at any rate.

David Pulver is writing it.  I think he is just about done with
the first draft....

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:33:58 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: RE: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...

cmdrx posted:
> 
> Well, now that TML is back up time to say something about GT...
> 
> Iridium plated kudos to Loren, Steve, and the gang on a job well done!
> 
> I have been trying to find errors in the book, only a few 
> minor editing
> glips.  This is definitely NOT IG!
> The background is rich, plenty of pictures, a very playable 
> system, and
> DECK PLANS!!!  Yes, deck plans of the Suleiman and Beowulf 
> class ships,
> it was like a reunion with old friends! ;-)

Bingo, Commander, bingo.

Loren, as a player, GM, and collector of Traveller since 1979
I have just one thing to say of my initial perusal of G:T.

*WOW*!!!!

I can't wait to go through it in-depth tonight.
<bounce><bounce><bounce>

(uh oh, it's catching...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:29:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...

cmdrx writes:

> But the best part of course (speaking as a gear head) is the ship design
> system.  Very nice, and quick to use.  The rules are based on High
> Guard, they brought back harpoints (1 weapon per 100 tons displacement)
> which will limit some of the insanity we have seen on THUDDD (it was
> good while it lasted)  As a matter of fact, you could almost take a HG
> ship and convert to GT w/o problem, I have.  Also, the system is fully
> compatible with the Vehicles system, so any module made in vehicles can
> be used for the ship system. Excellent!

Of course, bear in mind that GURPS Vehicles has no hardpoints system....
military vehicles constructed to Vehicles performance capabilities will tend to
seriously outpower any relatively small vehicles constructed with the starship
design system (I have a TL 12 fighter design floating around -- 10 displacement
tons, 8 Gs, functionally impervious to TL 12 lasers.  If I'm willing to make it
only impervious from the front arc, it's capable of 11 Gs and can outaccelerate
missiles).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:09:10 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Imperial calendar

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>>My point is that it adds to the background to assume that they do. Like the
>>365 day year. Just why does the 3rd Imperium use a 365 day year? The "real"
>>answer is that it makes the game a whole lot more playable; but the "game"
>>answer is that Sylea just happens to have a 365 day year too (365.04 days
>>IIRC from the TD it was covered in). Its little details like that which set
>>Traveller apart in my mind.
> 
>24 hour rotation and 364.97 revolution, according to Rats & Cats.   An
>amazingly Earth-like world.  What a coincidence. : )  

If it is a coincidence. IIRC Darrian has a 24 hour rotation too (and so does
Arden and Alell, but that's not germane). Did the Ancients in charge of some
of the human resettlements go the extra mile and adjust the rotation of their
planets while others (like the one in charge of Vland) didn't bother? Or did
some of them perhaps deliberately chose worlds with rotation periods close to
that of Terra? (I dislike the overuse of the Ancients to explain every little
oddity, but precisely when the homeworlds of minor human races are concerned
I think it is appropiate or at least permissible.)


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:41:33 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Sam Thomas wrote:

> >Exactly.  lol.  Well put. : )  Of course, I don't think it's possible to
> >remove the transponder box without destroying it.
> 
> Well the "Chatter Box" chip circuit on every ship will/should have a
> EMCON(EMmission CONtrol) switch to cease all comm activity via the chip.

Maybe for military ships (from the description and operations in Survival
Margin).  I'd accept the "Imperium allows to hide," though.  Just because I
think Sunbeard the pirate is impossible, it doesn't mean piracy doens't
happen.  Of course if you don't allow the "turn off" to non military, then
non-privateering pirates can *not* exist.  Not w/o telling everyone in the
area who they are.  The ones w/o transponders get arrested or killed real
fast.

> Like when the pirate/privateer is hunting the target merchant ship. After
> lengthy disccusion when the "Chatter Box" was first introduced into the
> Traveller universe, a consenus was reached, ie a ship can cut off the out
> ship commnunications, but later will have a good reason for it.

<snip>
> Shutting off coms would not cause the ship to "mlet down"

Not the ship, silly goose, just the transponder.

> Well let see if every A class starport has say four techs, every Class B
> has three techs, every C class has two techs that can *access* the "Chatter
> Box" black box. Lets says the imperium of 11,000 worlds three quarters fo

Doubtful.  These thigns were pretty hush hush.  Maybe one central place/Domain
(maybe Sector).  Hell, I can buy one main facility for the whole Imperium!
Componets,etc from many sources, but the chip itself (assembly, breeding, etc)
from just one place.  Robot construction facilities w/ some odd human
supervision making sure everything is running. The only place people are in
the loop is for the breeding, "human necessary" decisions, etc.  

> Box". Due to the nature of covert/criminal ops, to say that more than one
> of those BB techs would be *persuaded* to *pass on* such knowledge and
> skills would be a vast understatement. 

Except there aren't any black box techs.  Broken ones are destroyed by their
tamper circuit.  Integrity breeched, comm/computer access broken=SDG and
control circuit melted.  Need new transponder.  The new transponder is told
what ship its installed in and it's *never* forgotten (though that one can be
destroyed... install new one and back to the beginning...etc etc).  Maybe the
explanation will be satisfactory to keep one out of the slammer, but maybe
not. : )

> The above does not factor into equation the *efforts* of non Imperial
> governments in getting the "Chatter Box" to sing another tune.<G>

First, they have to know what's in the black box.  That's doable, but isn't
easy.  (Supposed to be unknown to the general public).  Then they've got to be
able to open a box w/o melting the chip to slag (or otherwise acquire a
"Strain D, Group-313F" Chip).  Any ol chip from Cymbeline wont do it.  The
Imperium breeded the features they wanted into them (reliable mutation and
thus being able to authenticate themselves to each other) for about 50 years.
Any of these govts would be starting from scratch on their own breeding
programs.  Of course, espionage is doable, but getting the exact evolution
(and thus mutation) of the 3I's?  Very doubtful.  In any case, these new chips
would still be from a different strain (which would return a "false" squawk
from your trusty Imperial transponder) and the chip couldn't "fake the funk"
and give it's history back to its ancestors in the Imperial lab unless it came
from there.  If chips could be smuggled out from the Imperial lab, then the
game is over.  Expect a serious Imperial intellegence (and military)
establishment in the vicinity of the transponder research station(s)/lab(s). 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:41:30 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> At what TL do Deyo-based transponders appear?  (I'm not very conversant
> with TNE....)  And how do shipyards which operate at lower TLs _get_
> their Deyo-based transponders?  Further, how does/did the Imperium
> impose the Deyo-based transponder on extra-Imperial shipyards?

The Deyo transponders were in final testing in 1086.  Enabling laws were
passed in 1088 and the "Deyo Circuits became mandatory equipment on all
spacecraft operating within Imperial boundaries"  They were installed as
standard equipment on new construction vessels and over the course of a 12
year phase-in period, retrofitted on all existing vessesl as part of routine
annual maintenence and relicensing procedures.   
All of that paraphrased from Survival Margin pg70-71  Also in Challenge
magazine (#?) as "When Empires Fall, part I."   As for aliens, their ships
don't have them, their ships don't enter Imperial space (legally anyways).
Being relatively full-proof, the aliens end up adopting them themselves (or
something to that effect).

The transponder itself would be TL15(borderline 16).  The Virus research
completed in the 1120s was TL16-17 (all of which was just playing w/ the
Cymbeline life-form).  AI is canon for TL16-17 (MT Ref's Companion).

> The variable-setting transponder referred to in the description of the
> Corsair starship requires either a pre-Deyo transponder, or a Deyo-based
> transponder that has been taught to lie....

Yup.  Course not allowing variable settings for non military ships means the
spacelanes can be alot safer.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:30:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ship's Business (was re: Transponders) [long]

In mail you write:

> Then there is the possibility of flight data recorders and cockpit voice
> recorders.  I like these, but I understand that not everyone sees them as
> necessary or desireable.  The point in their favor is that starships,
> unlike their sea-going equivalents, take off and land like aircraft at very
> high speeds and at centralized ports (defined by their Imperial extrality
> limits, which will be as small as possible on most worlds).  The
> possibility of a catastrophic accident is fairly high, enough to justify
> the use of recorders.  Once you have them, they make a great check on the
> excesses of a crew - how wild are you going to get, if you know that your
> words are recorded for posterity if anything goes wrong?  Of course, there
> are plenty of real-world crews that this didn't stop, so the black box need
> not become Big Brother if you don't want it to.  But when correlated with
> the ship's logbook and a simple transponder log of signals sent and
> received, it becomes even more difficult to recreate the ship's past in
> your own image - so much so, that I give my players a break and purge the
> flight data recorder at each annual maintenance.  Some of their ships are
> really well maintained...

Actually, as I understand it, the recorders on airplanes work on either
a "trip" basis, or on the more recent solid state units, they act like
a *long* endless loop tape. You'll have a record of the last X hours.
For Traveller, I wouldn't go for more than a couple of weeks. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:42:58 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Apologies

I apologize for posting the GURPS ship to the list twice; I was not aware
the first one had made it through.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:57:50 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: firearm safety and technology

MarioC  eldwyn@juno.com types out:
>The drawback is it only takes the ring to make the gun work, as opposed
>to finger-print or retina scans. The plus side, it takes a lot more
>effort to get that ring off of my finger (or finger off of my hand) if
>you want to use my gun, than simply fighting me for the gun.
>Although this may be possible at today's TL, I have not seen it in use. I
>can't imagine it would take much more tech, merely consumer desire (or
>legislation?!). 

  Such devices are being build and marketed today (i.e special ring
required to fire).
Oddly enough, the groups that have been calling for such firearms for years
(when they thought they couldn't be built) are no coming out against 'em.  
  Somehow they didn't think ahead enought to figure that folks trading to
the new firearms would be trading .38 revolvers to 9mm/10mm/11.5mm
semi-automatics with 10 round magazines.  Oops!
  
  There are tech games you play with your players concerning law levels and
firearms.  A good one is not allowing the players to use their own
firearms.  Force them to buy local ones.  Ones with a small built in
digital camera and a transmitters.  When you fire it, it stores a picture
of what you shot and squirts the image, firearm ID, and location to the
local cops.  :-)




- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:31:21 -0700
From: "Malekuth" <malekuth@geocities.com>
Subject: [none]

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:31:03 -0700
From: "Malekuth" <malekuth@geocities.com>
Subject: [none]

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: [GT] "PF Sloan" fleet escort

Steven Bonneville writes:
> This is a prototype GURPS Traveller conversion of the classic "PF Sloan"-
> class fleet escort from "Supplement 9: Fighting Ships", probably originally
> designed by Tim Brown.  

<stats zapped>
>   5000-ton SL Hull, DR 3401, two Missile Bays, thirty Turrets with three
> 405 MJ lasers each, Hardened Command Bridge, Engineering, 1271 Maneuver,
> 250 Jump, 2000 Fuel, 157.5 Vehicle Bay (holds three 50-ton Modular
> Cutters), Radical Stealth, Radical Emission Control, Heavy
> Compartmentalization, 30 Meson Screen (DR 4245), 32 Nuclear Dampers (35 mile
> range), 10 Utility, 33 Staterooms, Sickbay, 40 cargo.
> 
> STATISTICS:  EMass 21903, LMass 22730, Cost MCr 2150.2, HP 220500.
>              Hull Size Modifier: +11.
Hm...I still don't have my copy of G:T, but based on the playtest stats and on
knowledge of how the G:Vehicles system works, some numbers here look fishy --
the area of a 5,000 displacement ton hull is 110,000, giving it 165,000 hp,
which makes me have doubts about armor and meson screen stats.  I guess you are
probably merging in the area of turrets and bays, which is incorrect -- they
have their own hit point totals and can be armored separately.

> Design was fairly straightforward.  The number of meson screen and
> nuclear damper modules are based on the displacement of the MS-2 and ND-2
> in MegaTraveller.
Probably dubious.  Convert on effect, not size in previous versions, which
probably means shrink the nuclear damper and boost the meson screen (preferably
by a large margin; less than 10,000 DR of meson screen is functionally
irrelevant)
> not sure that my reading of the compartmentalization rule was correct.
Not obvious what your reading of it was.  Compartmentalization cost works out
to be a multiple of hull mass for that portion of the hull which is
compartmentalized; turrets are ordinarily not compartmentalized.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:10:14 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Counting in Hexidecimal (was: Re: Metric and GT)

>>OTOH, I would expect that the system used in the 3I is a
>>decimal-based one, as humaniti is geared toward base-10 number
>>systems.  Using metric, the decimal-based system used throughout
>
>Hexidecimal people.  Base F.  1-F.
>
>That's the case when developing UPPs.  If that's the base, then, when
>you count, what do you call "B"?  How about "B" + "B"?


I call B B and F F etc. When quoting a number I say "Three F zero C" or some
such (16140)

>So does:
>
>A= "Aten"   or  "Aye"
>B= "Beten" or  "Bee"
>C= "Seeten" or "See"
>D= "Deten" or  "Dee"
>E= "Eeten" or  "E"
>F= "Feten" or  "Ef"


What's this Aten buisiness? why is the 'ten' bit there?


>Then, "10" or "ten" should be F+1, "11" should be F+2, thirteen should
>be F+4, right?

Yes but saying ten or thirteen get's confusing if you are talking in both
hex and dec, so I would say one zero rather than ten. but wrtten it does
look the same so denote the number with hex, eg 13 (hex).

>Should "Twenty" be (F+1) * 2?  So you should have numbers like 2A, which
>in base 10 would be a quantity of....44?.  Starships cost a lot more in
>Hexidecimal....


2A is 42. Starships cost no more as the NUMBER remains the same it is just a
different way of presenting the number. ie 402 000 000 Cr(dec) is 17F60880
Cr(hex) it's still 402 MCr either way.

>I'm tired of thinking about it.  I'll stay decimal...


Fair enough, I wonder if we can make decimal computers though...

Cheers,
 Anson

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:11:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

In mail you write:

> I thought it was the case that if the reactions increased too quickly then
> the control rode were likely to be unable to be inserted in sufficient time
> to avpoid melt down.  Is this right in theory but not a practical worry?

It can be a problem.

> Why would fusion reactors not suffer, or is the magnitude of any increase
> in power not likely to cause damage? 

That's the point. An external neutron flux *won't* increase the
reaction rate. Fusion reactions are carried out by trying to get the
atoms in the plasma close enough together (high pressure) and moving
fast enough that they can overcome their mutual electrostatic repulsion
and get close enough for the nuclear force to cause the nuclei to come
together. 

Adding neutrons (or gamma rays) won't affect this. In a *fission*
reactor, the reaction is driven by neutrons being absorbed by the
*massive* nuclei. This then destabilizes them and causes them to break
into smaller pieces, among which are more neutrons.

> I thought that fatigue of containment
> vesels caused by heat buildup from the absobed radiation was likely to be
> greatly increased by a a lot of incoming radiation, especially from a
> direction which it is not designed to cope with.  Comments?

The radiation isn't going to cause a noticable heat buildup in a fusion
reactor. The difference between 800-1000 C and 850-1050 C is pretty
miniscule. A fission reactor *tends* to be operated at lower temps.
Though liquid metal and gas core reactors will run at temps in equally
high if not higher ranges.

The fusion reactor has a million degree plasma in its heart. It's got a
*lot* of radiation to contain. But any *extrernal source of radiation
that could heat it enough to worry about would kill the crew
immediately. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:49:48 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Douglas Glatz wrote:

> When fighting an experienced bladesman (Note: some people only regard
> bladesmen as persons who are experienced in the use of pointy objects 6" or
> longer, who have portions of their living area devoted to the care and
> maintenance of said pointy objects, or who devote large portions of their
> spendable income in the pursuit of said objects.  I personally say that if
> you can whittle a branch without drawing your own blood - you qualify.), I
> generally prefer to use a rifle.  The range can be as short as, say, from
> across the street, but I would really prefer it to be from the top of a
> large building.
>
> Some would say that artillery barrages or B-52 strikes are the only suitable
> defense against a truly competent bladesman.  While there is merit in that
> position, especially when the person in question is versed in a any of the
> martial arts, there are too many historical precedences for individuals to
> come through these events, largely unharmed (Note: some would say that
> 'versed' means the person has received years of training.  I OTOH take the
> position that if you have ever watched a Jackie Chan movie, you are too
> dangerous to live.)  I personally believe that by taking the simple
> precaution of not warning the potential aggressor of the upcoming conflict,
> a heavy machine gun should be more than adequate.  Remember to always check
> your opponent for signs of life before you leave, preferably with the 9mm
> pistol.  Often, your opponent may have surrounded himself with others, which
> can hamper this vital life sign check.  I find that grenades will often
> supply a suitable distraction, especially when the event in question is a
> wedding, birthday party, baptism or school play.

I just wanted to say that this post made my day. I laughed out loud, causing me
to get a few strange looks from my co-workers. Not that THAT isn't unusual.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #853
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 28 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 854



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #850
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: firearm safety and technology
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: GURPS Traveller impressions
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #850
Re: Dogfight (was re: Fighters (High Guard)
Re: MT Hand-to-Hand
GURPS: Traveller a review
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Testing
List operation.
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)
X Boat Transmission test - Kind off
Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
re: Transponders
Re: GURPS Traveller impressions
Re: Imperial calendar
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:13:28 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #850

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:55:22 -0400, you wrote:

>From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
>Subject: Re: Metric and GT
>
>>> Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ etc
>>>have all changed from Imperial to Metric with comparative ease.
>>
>Being in school at the time of the change in Canada. I can remember the
>"ease" of the change. In a space of 5 years all signs in my area changed to
>metric. In school the change was a lot faster, over the summer holidays in
>75/76, and you used metric only. IMO it was some what draconian in
>implementing but it worked.

Being in school at the time I can also remember the changeover ... and it made
no difference to most people.

Worse, it doesn't seem to have affected "popular culture" at all.

I teach High School and, guess what? The kids *invariably* measure their height
in feet and inches rather than centimeters, and their weight in Stones/pounds
rather than kilograms.

These are kids who have been brought up, theoretically, their entire lives under
the system.

Thing is, of course, their parents and grandparents *haven't* been.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:14:16 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

     If a ship is using the Semi-sentient chip as a transponder, couldn't
someone with computer empathy like up with it and tech it to lie that way?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:35:49 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

Bloo posted:
>
>Mark Cook wrote:
>
>> Not necessarily.  The "Tueller Drill" (which is what Erwin is describing)
>> demonstrates that, on average, an attacker with a knife can close 7m
>> and attack in ~2.0 sec.  It takes an armed defender ~2.5 sec. to
>> recognize the threat, draw a concealed sidearm, and fire 2 shoots.
>> (This, of course, assumes the defender is well-trainied.)
>
>What about non-concealed fireams in hip-holster?
>With or without clasp fastened.

Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".

There was also a hi-tech version, called the "Power Holster", mentioned
in the Death World trilogy novels. It would flip a weapon the size of
a small 9mm (!) from the forearm into the hand, with enough force to rip
through regular cloth, faster than the eye could blink.

Required a lot of training and some hefty muscle on the arm (the
wearer was from a standard atmosphere, heavy grav world where
*everything* tries to kill you) but it was standard to remove the
weapon's trigger guard. This allowed the weapon to fire as soon as it
hit the hand just by crooking the trigger finger back when the holster
was activated. Like I said, it required a *LOT* of training; the
character started training when he was 7 years old! Given that the
character could hit a sparrow in flight without a thought (can you 
say "Handgun-6"?), this thing is like having a lightning bolt in
your finger tip. Talk about "point and shoot".

BTW, one of the old White Dwarf issues had CT stats for this thing as
part of an article on weapons for Traveller. I'll hunt 'em up and post
them tonight if anyone is interested.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:19:00 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

     Works well until one of your gearheads get rid of the transmitters, or
some how makes them think the gun was never fired.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:26:16 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 09/24/98 at 05:45 AM,  "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >Here's my review:
>
> >None of the game stores around here will have it for another week!
> >I'm  so pissed.
>
> I stopped by my NSFLGS yesterday and asked about GURPS Traveller.  I
> got blank looks from the black-garbed goth behind the counter, a
> shrug and an "I don't know" from the wargame geek stocking the
> shelves, and snorts from the card clowns throwing popcorn at each
> other at the gaming table.

In Boston, the staff at the LGS was mostly impressed with how
the text from the cover (from Beowulf's Point of View) matched up
to the text on the poster, and the old box, (broadcasting to the
Beowulf).

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:30:12 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

Greg Smith wrote:

> >Being a stone-cold devout atheist in the bible-belt earned me a few
> >good beat downs.
> >
> >Intolerance has many faces.
> >
> >Bloo
>
> And vice versa today in the courts in america...  Intolerance and
> persecution *by* atheists is at an all time high...

All the lawyers I know, as a lawyer, in a lawyer-filled town,
I only know one other atheist lawyer.  The rest are in Church
every Sunday (probably confessing ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:59:40 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Bruce Johnson writes:

>[semi-sentient Deyo chip transponders] were unforgeable, because no one
>but the Imperium had a supply of deyo chips, and those were taught, not
>programmed.

Since 'The Imperium' in this case means more than a thousand (at least)
different officials (at least one per Class A starport, maybe also Class
B?) I somehow doubt that the Imperium will stay the sole owner of those
chips for long. Hijack a shipment and bribe someone with a legitimate
chip and you're in business. That's one of the reasons why I have trouble
accepting  --  no, make that: 'absolutely refuse to accept'  --  the
unforgable Deyo chip transponder. A couple of oyhers are: 1) The dates
involved shows that these transponders would have been in use before 1105,
which that the programmable transponder mentioned in several canonical
sources would have been Deyo transponders  --  or at least able to fool
Deyo transponders. 2) My mind positively boggles at the notion that
the Solomani, Zhodani, Hivers, etc. would accept a requirement that all
their ships incorporate a mysterious black box connected to their
telemetry and communication equipment and delivered by the Imperium.

>While with lots of creative programming, wiring (and a dump of the
>Shelbourne's main data banks) you could transplant an ersatz copy of the
>"Shelbourne" into the Shelbourne's transponder's 'reality' space, making
>it think it _was_ still the Shelbourne, but that would be a lot of work,
>and the transponder would still know that it was shut off for a period
>of time not scheduled in the Shelbourne's main computers. A far more
>delicate sort of operation would be to make the cutover unnoticed by the
>transponder...

You propably couldn't cannibalize a captured Deyo transponder, but I'm
quite sure you could buy a new one from some corrupt official. The only
problem I have with that is that I think the cost of such a baby would
be far higher than the canonical cost of a fake transponder. 
 
>Of course, this is a presupposing that you actually knew that the
>transponder was anything but a relatively sophisticated 'squawk-box'. 
>IIRC the true nature of the Deyo transponders was a rather closely
>guarded secret.

A closely guarded secret known to only a few thousand people... LOL


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:35:52 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller impressions

Steven Bonneville wrote:

> Seeing the Type-S scout/courier deckplans done on top of a one-yard
> scale hexgrid is a bit peculiar, mind you....

This threw me until I found the small sidebar stating that
4-hexs = 1 displacement ton = 500 cf.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:53 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #850

aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor) on 09/28/98 04:13:28 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #850





>Phil
<--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------
>Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au |
www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
<--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------
>YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from
www.hyperbooks.com
<--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------
>Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)


          Just reading your tag line, did you really design Sace Opera?  If
      so how whould you like to adjust your aliens from that game to TNE
      stats?  I have used them before in Star Frontiers, and would love to
      use them again in Traveller.  I purchased Space Opera many, many,
      many years ago when I was living in Europe but was not able to find
      anyone to play.  That never stoped me from using it as a reference
      for the games we were playing.  I liked the over all game but hated
      the very long time it took to create characters although I will admit
      that you had alot of information when you finished creating that guy.

I appologise for using band width for this mess.



Leo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:36:46 -0700
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Dogfight (was re: Fighters (High Guard)

One sentence snipped from Walter Smith's <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> excellent
post on expanding the role of fighters in Traveller combat:

>Also note that capitol ships and such could theoretically dogfight
>an opponent, but it may not be a good idea.

"Yes, I said closer!  Move as close as you can and engage those Star
Destroyers at point-blank range!"

When the alternative is being fired upon by a factor-Omega beam laser
battery, this tactic becomes more viable.  :)

- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand

David Smart <David.Smart@ons.octel.com> writes:

> Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
> small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
> This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
> round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".

Dave, I hope you base this on something other than re-runs of "Wild,
Wild West."  Sleeve/Spring holsters are/were quite rare and even those
developed by the OS during WWII were notoriously unreliable.

> There was also a hi-tech version, called the "Power Holster", mentioned
> in the Death World trilogy novels. It would flip a weapon the size of
> a small 9mm (!) from the forearm into the hand, with enough force to rip
> through regular cloth, faster than the eye could blink.
> 
> Required a lot of training and some hefty muscle on the arm (the
> wearer was from a standard atmosphere, heavy grav world where
> *everything* tries to kill you) but it was standard to remove the
> weapon's trigger guard. This allowed the weapon to fire as soon as it
> hit the hand just by crooking the trigger finger back when the holster
> was activated.

Snork.  I couldn't help but crack up when I first read about these
things in Harry Harrison's books.  This is the most high-tech way
I have yet to read about for blowing off your own hand/forearm.
Training not withstanding, if the firearm punches through your sleeve
(or even hangs up on the lining of a regular sleeve while heading
for the cuff), that unprotect trigger trips and *BLAM*, you either
end up with a prosthetic arm or resign yourself to being addressed
as "Stumpy" for the rest of your life! :^)

There are plenty of high-tech ways of accomplishing a "lightning shot
from the sleeve."  Power holsters are *not* on the short list. :^)

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:45:20 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: GURPS: Traveller a review

As I sit here in the comfy chair contemplating the BBB (Bog Black Book or
GURPS Traveller) I notice one thing right off. The difference between a GAME
company and a company producing games.

GT is a very well done book over all. That's not to say there are no typos,
there are, but they are few, and easy to figure out. I'm also sure that the
SJG team will have errata out in short order as they have with their other
games.

The art is a combination of earlier pieces and new art and deffinately is
Traveller (some may find fault with indiviual renderings but it is much more
Traveller IG's efforts). I've already spoken about the deckplans on the deck
plan list. Here all I will say is they are useable, well drawn, but could
stand some improvement. One note, however, they are better than many that I
have seen associated with SJG in the past. I have hopes that they will
improve and in the course improve all SJG products.

A large portion of the book is taken up with a VERY complete background for
Traveller. Those missing much of the CT or MT material would do well to pick
the book up for this alone. One surprising and delightful addition is the
sidebars where (I assume) Loren explains some of the thinking behind items
that have become major points in cannon. This is an amusing insight into the
thought process that built the history of the game.

The ship design system harks back to CT in it's feel. Simple "plug and play"
modular design with the option to create more modules from GURPS Vehicles.
The joy is that it appears to be perfectly usable as is by the average GM.
Gearheads, I'm sure, will be adding units in no time.

Characters are a matter that many Traveller players will find the hardest to
swallow. As with all GURPS it is point cost, with Templates for many of the
old standby character types. It a also includes a nice conversion section
that allows the conversion existing Traveller characters from all of the
previously published Traveller versions.

There are conversion charts for Metric to Imperial (US) measurements, as
well as Traveller's UPP data so conversions of earlier material should not
be a problem with a bit of effort.

Overall I'd have to rate the book as 4 1/2 stars out of 5 ( the last half
star is for not haveing included deck plan keys, a personal gripe!). Thank
you, Loren for setting the bar for Traveller material back up where it
belongs!

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:18:52 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:24:42 -0700, "David P. Summers" 
<summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
<Snip>
> 
> And infrastructure that is only a fraction of the size of the 
Vilani
> Empire.  Suppose we wanted to have everyone in the world drive
> on the same side of the road?  Would the entire world switch to
> to driving on the left to match Japan and England?  Or would
> it be the other way around?
> 
I think you've missed a few other countries there - like Australia, 
New Zealand, India, South Africa, (I think China is right hand drive 
too?)....

Too many people think that driving on the left side of the road is a 
minority condition. It may well be, but it's not so overwhelming as 
you think.

Andy (who was brought up on the left side of the road, and migrated 
to another such place...)

- - -------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			andrewlong@hotmail.com
Abu Dhabi			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
				+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
- - ---------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:44:53 -0700
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Testing

Hello?

Has the Traveller Mailing list suddenly had an electronic stroke? I haven't
seen any messages for two days.

Hello?

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bruadh/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:01:31 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: List operation.

I subscribed to the traveller list last week.  When I came in this morning I
had no mail pending and have had no mail in the last two hours.  Does the
traveller list shut down over the weekend or have I somehow been removed
from the list?

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:33:06 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

From:           	shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date sent:      	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:49:07 PST

>In mail you write:

>> I remember the great pains I had to go to to explain picas (1/12th of an 
>> inch) to apprentices, they just could not visualise the unit.

>And then you hit them with agates, right? :-)

I've lived with picas, ems, ens, ciceros, points etc for most of my adult life; I 
can even grasp the arcane measure of "type high" (a value that apparently 
relates to no known system of measures); but even I have trouble with agates 
:*>

>I happen to own a printer's ruler. I bought it by mistake 25 years
>back, but kept it because the pica scale was just *too* useful for 25mm
>miniatures. And it also drove players nuts when I'd hand them a map and
>the measurements on it didn't "make sense". Mapping at 7 or 14 feet to the
>inch (using agates) or 6 or 12 feet to the inch using picas makes for a
>mapp that they can't just lay a ruler on and read off the distances
>(unless they know the secret).

You can still afford 25mm!!!!!!! I converted to 15mm when I decided to recreate 
the entire army of Napoleonic Wurtemberg. (Andrew who lovingly remembers 
Prince Ruperts regiments of horse routing many a Parlimentarian regiment in 
25mm)

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:09:25 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Psionic institutes (T4 supplement)

On 24 Sep 98, at 6:05, steve daniels wrote:
> > 60%+ doesn't define a minority in any sense of the word I know of.
> 
> If does to Bill Gates.
> 

Good point, that. <G>

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:08:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: X Boat Transmission test - Kind off

Hi all,

Sorry to waste bandwidth, but is the TML Digest still operational? I've not
seen anything since Thursday?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:49:41 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

Leo Hale wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     Remember the big red button she hit just before it blew?  That's all
the off switch she had since damage to that area of the ship screwed the
control systems.  She was trying to safely turn it off when all hell broke
loose again and she then went for the button to dump the plant, only she
was just a little on the late side there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I thought fusion plants would just go dead if they got busted up - this
isn't a fission plant, there's no nuclear bomb sitting there waiting to blow
when the controls get screwed up. Wouldn't it take some deliberate,
complex actions to get a fusion plant to do more than melt itself?

When the fusion plant on _Fearless_ went, it went up like a nuke.

It was very dramatic, though. Mebbe combat fusion plants are built
in dangerous ways to get lots more power out of them or something.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:15:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

In mail you write:

> A more promising system is a low-powered radar that tracks bullets back to
> their point of origin.  Link that to a minigun.  Pureed Sniper.

Miniguns use *way* too much ammo. Maybe an automated grenade launcer?
I'd go for a mortar, but there are times when the mortar shell can't
reach because of the high angle trajectory.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:01:49 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponders

Gary wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Maybe for military ships (from the description and operations in Survival
Margin).  I'd accept the "Imperium allows to hide," though.  Just because I
think Sunbeard the pirate is impossible, it doesn't mean piracy doens't
happen.  Of course if you don't allow the "turn off" to non military, then
non-privateering pirates can *not* exist.  Not w/o telling everyone in the
area who they are.  The ones w/o transponders get arrested or killed real
fast.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Thousands of smaller merchants (including those PC's are likely to crew)
operate on the Imperial frontier, and visit star systems where the local
ships don't give a damn about Imperial transponders. Even if the
Imperium forbade deactivating transponders in Imperial space, they
should allow you to shut yours down outside Impie territory.
The alternative would be to lose more scouts, exploratory traders
and research craft to dangerous situations beyond the frontier that
could have been avoided.

If you can turn it off outside Imperial territory, the switch exists
when you are in Impie territory. Therefore you can meet a ship
with it's transponder turned off, or be in a situation where you
suspect the existance of an undetected ship with an off transponder,
and legally turn your transponder off yourself while running for
safer space inside the Imperium.

The only reason the Impies would force a transponder that couldn't
be turned off on all their shipping would be if they forbade
merchant ships from travelling outside of Imperial territory.
A more controlled society (say, the Zhodani) might do exactly that - 
except that all their merchant vessels are Zho navy auxiliaries.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 21:19:45 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller impressions

On 09/28/98 at 07:35 PM,  steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> said:

>Steven Bonneville wrote:

>> Seeing the Type-S scout/courier deckplans done on top of a one-yard
>> scale hexgrid is a bit peculiar, mind you....

>This threw me until I found the small sidebar stating that 4-hexs = 1
>displacement ton = 500 cf.

Yay!  Each hex is a 1/4 dton, that's the scale I use, 1mx1mx3.5m, so
I can just fiat that 1 yd = 1 m and continue to use my deckplans.
Of course, the implication of of 4 sq *yards* equaling 500 cf is that
each of the hexes is 4.63 yards high...but hey, that's not *my*
problem. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:24:38 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial calendar

In a message dated 9/28/98 5:47:16 PM Central Daylight Time, rancke@diku.dk
writes:

<<  (I dislike the overuse of the Ancients to explain every little
 oddity, but precisely when the homeworlds of minor human races are concerned
 I think it is appropiate or at least permissible.) >>

Right. The Ancients didn't do EVERYTHING to create the universe. But they are
appropriate when directly connected with a situation.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:26:35 +0000
From: edjs@bitslayer.net
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

> From:          Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
> Date:          Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:49:41 -0400
> 
> It was very dramatic, though. Mebbe combat fusion plants are built
> in dangerous ways to get lots more power out of them or something.

It's all those self-destruct charges ships come with (power plants/engines, 
computers, and display panels all must have explosive charges installed at a 
minimum).

   :)



- --
Edward Swatschek
edjs@bitslayer.net - edjs@mindlink.net - ICQ 2684960
http://home.mindlink.net/edjs/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #854
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 855



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Transonders and computers
Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
Re: Ship's Business 
Ping!
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
I just finished reading GURPS Traveller...
Re: Metric and GT
Re: firearm safety and technology
Honor Junkies
GURPS:Traveller in Boston
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
RE: Deckplan Fallacies (was :Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
1,000,000 colonists
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
re: Rocketry 100
Re: Imperial calendar
Malorn.sar file and system background Word97 file
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
knife fights
re: Transponders
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:16:00 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

>Since the transponder is just in effect a radiosignal connected to
>a computer of some sort, wouldn't it be possible for someone to get a
>hold of the programming and make as many transponders as need be?

Not if the transponder signal is encrypted. Encryption, by definition, uses
a secret number or something to encode the signal. Knowing the algorithm
lets you interpret the signal, but you must know the secret in order to
generate the signal.

The "secret" could be based on something like quantum transitions, and
theoretically impossible to duplicate or eavesdrop on.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:14:00 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

>steve daniels writes:
>> 
>> Cannon height of decks is, IIRC, 3 meters.  Using 1.5 meter squares,
>> a Traveller ton is 2 squares long, 1 square wide, and 2 squares wide,
>> or 4 1.5m^3 cubes.
>
>That's classic, and is really a square 5' * 5' * 10' high.  It doesn't really
>make much sense realistically, and you don't actually need that heigh ceilings.
>
If you look at most office buildings, you will find between the "ceiling" and ceiling many things like cabling, ductwork, support structures and piping.  This easily is 2+ feet above the 8 ft "ceiling."  I can't remember which book I read it in (but I think it was the Starship Operating Manual) that the total vertical size of a deck is not available for wandering around in, but is partly taken up by the stuff I mentioned above.  Currrent wet-navy decks are somewhat shorter than Traveller decks, but they
also run cabling, piping, etc. above normal head height but below the next deck up.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:48:25 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Ship's Business 

>
>Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:30:57 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Ship's Business (was re: Transponders) [long]
>
>Actually, as I understand it, the recorders on airplanes work on either
>a "trip" basis, or on the more recent solid state units, they act like
>a *long* endless loop tape. You'll have a record of the last X hours.
>For Traveller, I wouldn't go for more than a couple of weeks. 
>

You are correct for the real world, and for most versions of Traveller, as
well.  This essay is based on material for a GT campaign, using GURPS tech
(UT, UT2, Robots, Vehicles, etc.).  The data storage capacity at GURPS TL12
(Traveller TL15) is enormous:  an EMP-hardened memory core (15lbs, 0.3cf,
and Cr5,000) holds 100 terabytes.  

Assume first generation flight recorders were GTL 6 (per VE2, p. 56), and
had a capacity of 30 minutes.  By GTL10 (which GT defines as average
Imperial), the data storage capacity is at least 3-4 orders of magnitude
higher than the original - say 2-200 days.  By GTL12, this is another 2
orders of magnitude higher - 200 days to 57 years.  I took one year as a
reasonable intermediate value.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:35:44 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Ping!

I've received no direct or digest messages this weekend...is the list up?

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls 
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 21:50:06 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On 09/28/98 at 07:26 PM,  edjs@bitslayer.net said:

>> It was very dramatic, though. Mebbe combat fusion plants are built
>> in dangerous ways to get lots more power out of them or something.

>It's all those self-destruct charges ships come with (power
>plants/engines,  computers, and display panels all must have
>explosive charges installed at a  minimum).

Hee! Hee! That's true.

Re:  Explosive fusion plants in the Honor Harrington ficton.  Come
on, folks!  It's just a matter of poetic license. ;-> Unless...

...fusion plants in HH's universe are fusion *bombs* who's reaction
has been slowed to an absolute crawl allowing power to be safely
extracted.  Lose the magic that slows the reaction down and it
*does* go boom!

Maybe we could invoke the same technology behind the gravitic bands
Weber uses to provide thrust/shield the ships.  His description of
stuff (including lasers) striking one of these bands implies (to me)
that they don't *block* the hits, they slow it down (somehow) so
that the energy dissipates before the missile/beam/particles get
through to the hull.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:29:39 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: I just finished reading GURPS Traveller...

...and this is one beautiful book and an incredible resource for the
history of the Traveller universe up to 1116, even if you don't intend to
use the alternate timeline. It is chock full of information, including in
some cases 'real world' insights into why the original Traveller designers
did things the way they did. The art is gorgeous (well, except for that one
picture of an Aslan...but hey, one clunker out of a book like this far
outdoes IG's record...). Even if you do not intend to use the GURPS system,
you'll like this book. For one such as I, who prefers GURPS, this is
absolutely a wish come true :) Kudos to you, Loren, and everyone else
involved in the production of this book.

Allen Shock

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:52:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metric and GT

In mail you write:

> All it really takes is a concerted education campaign and changing
> all the "road signs" etc. NZ went metric in the early 70's and now
> the change is sufficently complete that people have a hard time
> comprehending the weight factor involved in a McDonalds quarter
> pounder.

Call it "100 grams". Especially since McD's is always getting nailed
for fudging on the weight. It's *supposed* to be the precooking weight.
But they were forced to let folks weight the patties a few times, then
apologize profusely for the "inexplicably underweight" patties. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:14:41 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

"Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com> types:
>     Works well until one of your gearheads get rid of the transmitters, or
>some how makes them think the gun was never fired.

  Yup.  Local cops *hate* it when they find 'em modified like that. ;-)
Smuggling non-net firearms onto such a planet is a good business too.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
      Smith&Wesson -- The Ultimate "Point & Click" User interface.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:05:34 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Honor Junkies

Walt Smith types:
>
>Reading _Honor of the Queen_ now...this series could get expensive...
>
>
>Love our Honor...

I've got the last three in hard cover as soon as they hit the street.

It's damn good Space Opera.

BTW, E.E. 'Doc' Smith's Lensmen series is being rereleased.
I just picked up the first three in a single hardcover for one of my kids.

Space Marines in Combat Armor with Space Axes!


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway. 
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:16:43 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: GURPS:Traveller in Boston

Wahhh! What FLGS in Boston had it?  My FLGS in Marlborough claimed they
didn't have it yet.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/  Opinions Mine!
"Umfriend" - Sexual relationship; "this is Chris, my... um... friend."
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:44:18 +1200
From: "Anson Betts" <Lord.High.Executioner@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

>And infrastructure that is only a fraction of the size of the Vilani
>Empire.  Suppose we wanted to have everyone in the world drive
>on the same side of the road?  Would the entire world switch to
>to driving on the left to match Japan and England?  Or would
>it be the other way around?


I feel left out, you forgot New Zealand, Australia (the great west island),
Fiji, well most of the pacific rim actually...

Cheers,
 Anson.

Stick a fork in their ass and turn them over, they're done.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:39:18 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Kimball <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 11:08 PM
Subject: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)


>>steve daniels writes:
>>>
>>> Cannon height of decks is, IIRC, 3 meters.  Using 1.5 meter squares,
>>> a Traveller ton is 2 squares long, 1 square wide, and 2 squares wide,
>>> or 4 1.5m^3 cubes.
>>
>>That's classic, and is really a square 5' * 5' * 10' high.  It doesn't
really
>>make much sense realistically, and you don't actually need that heigh
ceilings.
>>
>If you look at most office buildings, you will find between the "ceiling"
and ceiling many things like cabling, ductwork, support structures and
piping.  This easily is 2+ feet above the 8 ft "ceiling."  I can't remember
which book I read it in (but I think it was the Starship Operating Manual)
that the total vertical size of a deck is not available for wandering around
in, but is partly taken up by the stuff I mentioned above.  Currrent
wet-navy decks are somewhat shorter than Traveller decks, but they
>also run cabling, piping, etc. above normal head height but below the next
deck up.
>- Joseph

My take, and I have always tended to 'convert' the metric measurements for
some players, has been to concider a meter roughly equal to a yard (GT does
this). deck sizing then it 3 meters floor to floor or 3 yards. I then
explain that the 'ceiling' is actually 2 to 3 feet lower or 6 - 7 feet high,
the extra space being filled with conduit and pwer feeds, air recycler
ductwork. water and sewage plumbing etc. In higher clas ships this is
further covered by a drop ceiling arrangement. On the average Freetrader the
drop ceil has usually been tossed out except in living quarters and common
areas. I've ofter thought of including a 'tween decks plan to deck plans,
ever since a PC used a "ventalation duct" to slip between cabins, I've just
never been that ambitious, I've also started explaining that the ducts are
usually too convoluted for a person to manuver through for more than a
couple of feet.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:53:53 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: RE: Deckplan Fallacies (was :Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net> speaketh:

>On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, David J. Golden wrote:
>> 
>> 	Actually, I've always counted the volume of the "stuff" as being
>> included in the volume of the various systems. Thus, if you've got 14
>> cubic meters of jump drive, the actual machinery is part of that, as
>> is the access space around it, the ductwork, power, etc. And normal
>> 8' ceilings are 2.5m, so it's not that excessive.
>
>
>Has anyone noticed that the deckplans in Traders & Gunboats (LBB) have
>nearly ZERO correlation with the tonnages that Book 2 (LBB) says they
>should? Can someone explain where the rest of the bridge is on a
>Scout/Courier? I like the way the plan is laid out, but there is supposed
>to be 20 TONS of bridge there somewhere - 40 squares. Even adding in
>avionics it's nowhere near enough space on the deckplan to account for
>that tonnage. The other ships are just as screwy.

 I've been beefing about it for years, actually. I'm not really worried about
things like Bridge size, since I considered 20 tons to be rather vast for
anything
smaller than 2000 tons. No, my main beef is in overall ship size.  In Traders
& Gunboats the Scout, Fat Trader, and Gazelle are pretty good, while the
Far Trader is twice the proper size and the SDB and its Jump Shuttle are both
a "little" off.  FASA didn't help matters, as most of the deckplans they did
were worse. Even DGP had this problem: the Free Trader in the Starship
Operators Manual is twice proper size.
 As might be expected, Imperium Games was no better. Most of the subcraft
shown in T4:Starships are WAY off, as is the Subsidized Freighter (a ship
I'm working over as we speak; the three-story-tall walk-in closets really
got to me). As has been flogged thoroughly here before, much of Starships
needs major work to be useful...

  GDW did finally fix the Far Trader in TNE (in "Guilded Lilly"), but all of
the MT versions had the same size problem as the CT version. I fixed it
for my own use in the other direction (as did Seeker) by making a 400ton
ship of the same shape...
  DGPs Free Trader works if you consider the scale grid to be 1.0m instead of
1.5m.
  I'm still working my way through FASAs stuff as the interest grabs me. One
of the greatest offenders is the famous King Richard. Unlike some large
ships, the Richard shows all of every deck in detail, including nice side
views.
the problem is that they forgot to include 95% of the fuel tankage...

GypsyComet
http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

Coming attractions on the website:
 T4 Modular Cutter Redux
 T4 Mercenary Cruiser that isn't a Happy Fun Ball
 T4 Sub. Freighter Redux

A bit further off:
 CT/MT Vargr Seeker

Announcements will appear here are projects are finished...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:35:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: 1,000,000 colonists

First, I would like to thank all that helped. Your efforts are welcomed.
Now to the big stuff. I forgot to mention that (a) the colonists already
know where the planet is.  (b) cryongenics of any kind is against their
religion. (c)the distance is a full sector away.(d) the ship will be
turned into the colony upon arrival. 
 So none really helped that much. Also, the colonists are refugees and
will be their own crew.  (TL 15)
   Does anyone know how much B5 displaces? I know it can hold 250,000.
  Thanks again,
  Mike  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:13:59 -0700
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I thought fusion plants would just go dead if they got busted up - this
isn't a fission plant, there's no nuclear bomb sitting there waiting to 
blow
when the controls get screwed up. Wouldn't it take some deliberate,
complex actions to get a fusion plant to do more than melt itself?

Weber's fusion plants operate under a lot of pressure.  When the magcon 
field lets loose, it's pretty ugly.  Kinda like what happens when the 
pressure hull of a sub let's go.

When the fusion plant on _Fearless_ went, it went up like a nuke.

More like a Plasma Gun...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:08:41 -0700
From: Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

Maybe we could invoke the same technology behind the gravitic bands
Weber uses to provide thrust/shield the ships.  His description of
stuff (including lasers) striking one of these bands implies (to me)
that they don't *block* the hits, they slow it down (somehow) so
that the energy dissipates before the missile/beam/particles get
through to the hull.

They don't slow down, the gravity fields are so intense that they cause the 
light to bend.

While I'm hazy on the exact principles, I believe that the fact that light 
is subject to gravity (i.e. black holes) is based in physics (as we 
currently understand the subject.)

douglas

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:26:57 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

Thank muchly, on another note you say
>
>You are confusing fission and fusion reactors. Fusion reactors *don't*
>"go critical". They only produce power because you are *forcing* the
>reaction to take place (by supplying enough heat & pressure). 
>
>So if something goes wrong, the reactor will shut down. Extra neutrons
>or gammas aren't going to affect the reaction much.
>
>-- 
Surely they put out more heat than they need or what would be the
point....confused.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:30:24 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: re: Rocketry 100

All this gets me thinking... Is it probable that fusion reactors will be
able to critical?  If you do not turn them off?  I am a bit unsure about
fusion plants:)_

At 14:31 28/09/98 -0700, you wrote:
>     Remember the big red button she hit just before it blew?  That's all
>the off switch she had since damage to that area of the ship screwed the
>control systems.  She was trying to safely turn it off when all hell broke
>loose again and she then went for the button to dump the plant, only she
>was just a little on the late side there.
>     Have read all the books in the Honor series so far (Just spend the
>heavy cash for the newest hard bound and have enjoyed all of them.  Another
>series he writes starts with the book Mutineers Moon, also a great series.
>
>Leo
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:44:23 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Imperial calendar

Marc Miller wrote:

><<  (I dislike the overuse of the Ancients to explain every little
> oddity, but precisely when the homeworlds of minor human races are
concerned
> I think it is appropiate or at least permissible.) >>
>
>Right. The Ancients didn't do EVERYTHING to create the universe. But
they are
>appropriate when directly connected with a situation.

I like the idea of the Ancients picking planets with 24 hour days.  Both
the Earth and Mars have Approx. 24 hour days, they cannot be the only
ones.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:47:02 +0200
From: Guillem Plasencia <guillemp@ciberia.es>
Subject: Malorn.sar file and system background Word97 file

I've completed the mapping of sector Malorn for Gal2.4, and some
background info on this forgotten of God's hand sector :)

I've also made a Word97 file with info about Aurora, a system in one of
the subsectors of Malorn.

But i've got no web site yet (i still have to manage to send to my
server files to fill my wonderful 2Mb (only) free space :(   , so the
question is :

- -Would some kind soul put it (zipped) on his web site until i have my
own page?

And the first, and more important question :

- -Is anybody interested on reading it/having it?

Malorn is a sector in which humans have not heard of other sectors (nor
other subsectors than their own one) in a long, long time...they have
had no contact with other virus than the flu :p  , but they're all low
tech.

In one subsector there is some contact with a high tech civilization
that has exchanged some of their technology (spaceships) in eschange of
natural resources, and this is the subsector where Aurora is placed, a
system trying to escape from their neighbors (from Kent system) control
and trade directly with the subsector's capital system.

If someone wants these files (Malorn.sar 21,5 Kb ; and Aurora background
64,5 Kb both unzipped) just mail me or reply to the list.


Guillem Plasencia
guillemp@ciberia.es

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 03:24:07 GMT
From: jlindsay@home.com (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:03:06 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> >> Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft
> >> mouse drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital
> >> Venturis FX running Windows NT.)
> 
> >         Doesn't MS make its own trackball?
> 
> Yeah. It's *tiny* thing, meant for to be clipped to the side of a
> laptop. *Totally* unsuitable for the handicapped. 

Incorrect.  MS makes a trackball version of the intellimouse.  It is a
mid-sized trackball, although not as nice as the full-sized ones that use
the larger 2" balls (Logitech's new Marble FX is the one I use, although
Kensington also comes to mind).

Anyways, most trackballs can be run without installing any additional
drivers.  You might not gain some of their specific advantages, but you can
still point-and-click.



James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)

   "Counselor, can I, uh, use your com-badge?" -- Riker

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:02:52 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: knife fights

Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com> types:
>I practise Jiu-Jitsu, and we have moves designed to counter knife attacks 
>from your average yokel. Most of the time it's a straightforward
procedure, because 
>the guy will lead with the knife hand. As you pointed out, a well-trained
knife fighter 
>will save his knife for when he can inflict a single, decisive strike. 

    Different styles have different approaches.  An Escrima artist will
inflict a half dozen slashes in 2 seconds.  Probably any single one will
not be decisive, but that a lot of blood flowing real fast!

>No matter how  good an
>unarmed person is at martial arts, I'd place the bet there on the serious
knife
>fighter.

    Basic rule of thumb taught to folks defending against a knife.  "You
will get cut."  
You may have some input on to when and where...


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:57:24 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponders

Steven Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Getting a new registry
>and new owner on a ship shouldn't take long, a lot less time than it
>would take for independent verification of the change to trickle through
>backwater planets.

  Doesn't the ship require any time to be brought from "scrapyard" status
to putative spaceworthiness? If so, then the new ID could be disseminated
sector-wide before the ship even passed its' final tests.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It takes time to make a scrapyard ship spaceworthy, but it doesn't
need a transponder until it flies. IMTU, the ship could get the
transponder last, first, whenever the new owner bought it. He could
even be bolting the transponder to the avionics array as the
startport engineer is performing the safety inspection.

If YTU requires that a transponder be issued long enough in advance
of first flight for the ID to be transmitted sectorwide (4-6 months),
that's fine - but you still have transfer of ownership situations.
Let's say _Consort Frederica_ just got seized by customs for
smuggling and I just bought it at auction. The next port I go to might
still have an APB notice for the _Frederica_ that I'll have to deal
with. Or more common, I just bought my ship from someone,
I start trading off the X-Boat links - every planet I go to, the papers
I'm carrying are the only proof I didn't kill that nice old captain who
was here last year and steal his ship.


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 00:21:13 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On 09/28/98 at 09:08 PM,  Douglas Glatz <douglas@teleport.com> said:

>They don't slow down, the gravity fields are so intense that they
>cause the  light to bend.

>While I'm hazy on the exact principles, I believe that the fact that
>light  is subject to gravity (i.e. black holes) is based in physics
>(as we  currently understand the subject.)

How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
from the light's frame of reference, does it?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:36:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

In mail you write:

>>>It has to survive several millenia intact.  The odds of it evolving
>>>to a new system are good.
>>
>>Not really. Weights and measures don't evolve as such. They either survive
>>pretty much intact or are totally replaced. The whole point of weights and
>>measures is to give certainty, the mile has remained constant for over 1000
>>years.
>
> Not true.  But the point that they are also replaced completely is
> another source of change.  There is not a single unit of measurement
> today that is the same as it was even _one_ melennium ago, let along
> several.

Want to bet?  The mile in essentially it's current length goes back
*two* millenia. I suspect the pound is quite close to the Roman
"librum". In fact, you'll find that *most* non-metric measurements go
*way* back, with only a few percent varaince over the centuries.

And the clincher. Standard railroad gage (spacing between rails) is
based on the wheel spacing of wagons. The spacing of wagon wheels was
based on the existing ruts in the roads. And that goes back to the
spacing of wheels on Imperial Roman chariots! I am *not* making this
up.

In the case of the wheel spacing, it's easy to see why the measurement
persisted. But many measures of length, volume or weight tend to
persist because they are used in commerce, and both merchants and
customers have a vested interest in them stayuing unchanged. Or rather,
they may want changes, but in *opposite* directions. The same goes for
measures used in determining land boundaries, or in tax collection.

Oh yeah, the hour, minute, second and degree go back to Babylonian
times.... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:37:52 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> >[semi-sentient Deyo chip transponders] were unforgeable, because no one
> >but the Imperium had a supply of deyo chips, and those were taught, not
> >programmed.
> 
> Since 'The Imperium' in this case means more than a thousand (at least)
> different officials (at least one per Class A starport, maybe also Class
> B?) I somehow doubt that the Imperium will stay the sole owner of those
> chips for long. Hijack a shipment and bribe someone with a legitimate
> chip and you're in business. That's one of the reasons why I have trouble

None of those 'officials' can open the black boxes.  In fact, noone can (w/o
destroying the chips inside).  There is no access to the chip except where
they breed the chips and assemble the black boxes.  I presuppose there are a
limited number of these facilities (if even more than one).  Needless to say
these *must* be heavily protected from both espionage and corruption.  Even if
others know the true nature of the chip, they can only go about breeding their
own.  The chips were *evolved* to their usable form (as transponder chips)
over the course of decades.  How easy is *that* to duplicate (especially
beyond the abilities of Imperial intelligence to discover)?  Also remember
that nothing says the further development (and replacement) of the chips will
be prevented in the future.  

Even if that was done (and we're getting into an increasingly difficult and
dubious number of "if's") the chip itself can only tell where it's been and
what it's been up to.  They can't "lie" as the DGP style transponders do.  The
military ships (and all, according to a justifiable "canon" argument) just got
a mute button.

> accepting  --  no, make that: 'absolutely refuse to accept'  --  the
> unforgable Deyo chip transponder. A couple of oyhers are: 1) The dates

Do you have even the faintest desire to accept them?  Have you ever?

> involved shows that these transponders would have been in use before 1105,

Yup.  1088 according to Survival Margin.  A 12 year period to have them
refitted on existing vessels.

> which that the programmable transponder mentioned in several canonical
> sources would have been Deyo transponders  --  or at least able to fool

Not having these long OOP sources, i can't really debate this.  I hold the
"lying" transponders of DGP to be another of their continuity glitches.
Anyone care to paraphrase/summarize how this 'programming' worked?

> Deyo transponders. 2) My mind positively boggles at the notion that
> the Solomani, Zhodani, Hivers, etc. would accept a requirement that all
> their ships incorporate a mysterious black box connected to their
> telemetry and communication equipment and delivered by the Imperium.

If they want to do business in Imperial space they would use whatever the
Imperials required them to.  As for using them on their native systems, maybe
their high-ups learned precisely how they operate and that they were full
proof against conventional methods of forgery.  There is indeed a way to make
them tell lies (as well as take complete control over the ship)... and that is
Virus, which is a TL17 program and thus far beyond any of the 3Is neighbors.

<snip>

> You propably couldn't cannibalize a captured Deyo transponder, but I'm
> quite sure you could buy a new one from some corrupt official. The only

One can buy whole transponder black boxes, but not Deyo chips or their control
chips.  No hypothetical 'corrupt official' (beyond the counter-espionage
abilities of the Imperium, that is) has access to the chips.

> problem I have with that is that I think the cost of such a baby would
> be far higher than the canonical cost of a fake transponder. 

Well seeing how fake transponders are supposed to be impossible by this
scheme, that is largely irrelevant.  The cost is actually Zero (since it
doesn't exist). ; )

> >Of course, this is a presupposing that you actually knew that the
> >transponder was anything but a relatively sophisticated 'squawk-box'. 
> >IIRC the true nature of the Deyo transponders was a rather closely
> >guarded secret.
>
> A closely guarded secret known to only a few thousand people... LOL

But not to the general public (and the Library Data available to them).  I'm
sure a high noble can find out nearly any piece of information one cares to
look up.  How many high nobles are there? ; )

Besides... A few thousand people out of a population of trillions.  And i'm
sure of those trillions a few thousand can also be provided to make sure an
"accident" happens to anyone likely to squeal (even assuming these people
don't have the highest Imperial security clearance to begin with).  Remember
that Brent Spiner scientist guy at Area 51 in the eye-candy flick ID4?  That's
probably what the people working at Research Station Omicron are like. : )

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #855
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 856



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Transponders
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Imperial calendar
GURPS: Traveller, first impressions
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Malorn.sar file and system background Word97 file
Recent Outage
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: 1,000,000 colonists
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Long response to Re: Money
FF&S2 Errata
The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
RE: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...
Re: Recent Outage 
Re: Vilani measures
Re: Transonders and computers
re: Transponders
Free Traders and transponders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:37:54 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: re: Transponders

> If you can turn it off outside Imperial territory, the switch exists
> when you are in Impie territory. Therefore you can meet a ship
> with it's transponder turned off, or be in a situation where you
> suspect the existance of an undetected ship with an off transponder,
> and legally turn your transponder off yourself while running for
> safer space inside the Imperium.

You (amongst others) make a quite convincing argument for the mute switch
being on all ships. : ) I'm game.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:04:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

In mail you write:

> When fighting an experienced bladesman (Note: some people only regard
> bladesmen as persons who are experienced in the use of pointy objects 6" or
> longer, who have portions of their living area devoted to the care and
> maintenance of said pointy objects, or who devote large portions of their
> spendable income in the pursuit of said objects.  I personally say that if
> you can whittle a branch without drawing your own blood - you qualify.), I
> generally prefer to use a rifle.  The range can be as short as, say, from
> across the street, but I would really prefer it to be from the top of a
> large building.
>
> Some would say that artillery barrages or B-52 strikes are the only suitable
> defense against a truly competent bladesman.  While there is merit in that
> position, especially when the person in question is versed in a any of the
> martial arts, there are too many historical precedences for individuals to
> come through these events, largely unharmed (Note: some would say that
> 'versed' means the person has received years of training.  I OTOH take the
> position that if you have ever watched a Jackie Chan movie, you are too
> dangerous to live.)  I personally believe that by taking the simple
> precaution of not warning the potential aggressor of the upcoming conflict,
> a heavy machine gun should be more than adequate.  Remember to always check
> your opponent for signs of life before you leave, preferably with the 9mm
> pistol.  Often, your opponent may have surrounded himself with others, which
> can hamper this vital life sign check.  I find that grenades will often
> supply a suitable distraction, especially when the event in question is a
> wedding, birthday party, baptism or school play.
>
> For the inexperienced knife-fighter, and whatever witnesses that may be
> accessible, a shotgun is suitable.
>
> If I should find myself with the prospect of facing a gunmen, my preferred
> weapon would be mercenaries.
>
> :^)

I find it very useful to remember the truism that there aren't any
dangerous weapons, just dangerous people.

I don't know how to knife fight. But I'd advise you to make sure that
there isn't something similar to what I *do* have some skill in. For
example, if I'm sweeping the floor, be prepared to be impaled on a
broomstick.... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:55:47 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Imperial calendar

>(I dislike the overuse of the Ancients to explain every little oddity,
>but precisely when the homeworlds of minor human races are concerned
>I think it is appropiate or at least permissible.)

Behind the Claw (the next GURPS Traveller book) makes the dry
observation about the tendency in the Imperium to blame anything
they can't figure out on the Ancients....

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:53:47 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: GURPS: Traveller, first impressions

Yes, I have it.  My NSLBVFGS called me last night to inform me that it was
in, and what's a forty-five mile drive.. this is TRAVELLER we're talking
about!  Anyway..

COVER ART:
The Black Book is back!  The cover is a straight reproduction of the
Classic Box, with the GURPS logo and SJG at the top and bottom.  Visually
striking, and it stood out on the new games shelf.  This one will attract
attention.

The back cover features the usual ad copy, which seems to be aimed at the
longtime/former Traveller audience.

CHAPTER 1: THE UNIVERSE OF THE THIRD IMPERIUM:
A general overview of the 3I setting.  Designed as a "common knowledge"
document, it covers the basics of the game world.  Loren? Any chance of
getting this section on the web for easy printing?  I'd love to have this
as a handout for newbies.

CHAPTER 2: DETAILS OF A UNIVERSE
This chapter is the reason why everyone should buy this book.  A
seventy-page exploration in depth of twenty years of development of the
setting.  A full sixty pages of library data, explorations of religion,
biotech, and cyberpunk as seen in Traveller.  An incredible resource.

CHAPTER 3: CHARACTERS
One of the things I was worried about with G:T was the translation of
career-orientated Traveller character generation to GURPS' points system.
Loren has handled this masterfully with a system of templates, allowing you
to generate characters in any number of professions.  The profession seems
to be drawn from TNE.. the attorney is back!  As written, the templates
give a nice transition into GURPS speak.  Players familiar with GURPS
shouldn't need them, but they do make it easier.

CHAPTER 4: EQUIPMENT AND TECHNOLOGY
The first section of this chapter explains the different technology
assumptions between Traveller and GURPS, and how to compensate.  A
reference chart shows the equivalent TLs between to two systems.  A fairly
standard list of weapons and equipment follows.  Most of the weapons seem
to have been drawn directly from Books 1 and 4.  The armor list is pure
Classic, which is a minor nit..  there are many different types of armor
already available in GURPS, and the Trav types don't add much.

CHAPTER 5: TRAVEL, TRADE AND COMMERCE
My favorite part of Traveller!  Simple, basic rules for normal and jump
space travel, and a *very* short trade section (one page).  I really hope
that this will be expanded sometime down the line, because as it stands G:T
trade is bloodless.  Short conversion rules for UWPs end out the chapter.

CHAPTER 6: CHARACTER CONVERSIONS
I really didn't get deeply into the section, since I'm not planning on
converting many characters.  It looks like reasonably complete rules for
taking characters from any edition of Traveller and GURPSing them.  To be
honest, I prefer to start fresh with the original character concept, and
try to build it rather than do a point for point conversion, but that's
just me.

APPENDIX A: STARSHIPS
Some of the classic ships, given the GURPS treatment.  As a Gearhead of
long standing, it took some doing to accept ship stats that didn't fill an
entire page, but the illustrations are nice, and the deckplans are well
executed.

APPENDIX B: MODULAR STARSHIP DESIGN
G:T's answer to QSDS.  Haven't had time to play with this, but it appears
to allow reasonably complete ship designs up to 100,000dtons.

APPENDIX C: SPACE COMBAT
Last, but not least, David Pulver's space combat system.  It seems to
remind me of the RPSCS.  

ARTWORK:
The art through out this book is phenomenal.  This is by far the best
traveller art since DGP folded.  Every single piece is well done, and works
with the established look.  Especially nice are the illos accompanying the
templates.  Some of the artwork I recognize from other sources, others are
obviously new.

OVERALL:
woo-hoo!!!  Loren, if you aren't accepting an Origins award next summer,
there is something wrong with the universe.  This is a must buy for any
Traveller fan, even if you despise GURPS.



	
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:54:01 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

At 21:50 28/09/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:

>Maybe we could invoke the same technology behind the gravitic bands
>Weber uses to provide thrust/shield the ships.  His description of
>stuff (including lasers) striking one of these bands implies (to me)
>that they don't *block* the hits, they slow it down (somehow) so
>that the energy dissipates before the missile/beam/particles get
>through to the hull.

My impression was that the gravitic sidewalls work like weaker versions of
the wedges - they protect against beams by dispersing the beam because of
the huge gravity gradient. Mind you I can't see how this is supposed to
stop the X-ray pulse from a nuke (in _Honor amoung Enimies_, IIRC, it
states that the wedges are proof against any weapon) as this is not
coherent, linear or focused, but just very powerful and this power is still
going to exist after traversing the wedge.

Based on the two I've had the opportunity to read they're damn
entertaining, though.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:11:01 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Malorn.sar file and system background Word97 file

Date sent:      	Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:47:02 +0200
From:           	Guillem Plasencia <guillemp@ciberia.es>

>I've completed the mapping of sector Malorn for Gal2.4, and some
>background info on this forgotten of God's hand sector :)

Well I would very much like to see them.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:49:30 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@TanSoft.COM>
Subject: Recent Outage

Hurricane Georges wasn't playing nice with our little island.  We got our
generator fixed and are running on generator power.  We have an estimate of
2-5 days before power is restored.  We are going to try to keep the
generator fueled, but no promises.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:37:58 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On Tue, 29 Sep 98 00:21:13 -0500, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
<Snip>
> 
> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
> from the light's frame of reference, does it?
> 
> 
> Eris
> - -- 

From the light's point of view, it takes infinite time - it always takes
infinite time at C. If you plug 'V=C' into the Tau equations, then the
equation simplifies to 0.

T=sqrt(1/(1-v^2/c^2)) 
=> T=sqrt(1/(1-C^2/C^2)), 
=> T=sqrt( 1/(1-1) ) 
=> T=sqrt( 1/0 )
=> T=Infinity

regards, Andy

================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:52:08 -0700
From: Robert Biggar Iii <rwb@tc.fluke.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 colonists

>  So none really helped that much. Also, the colonists are refugees 
and
> will be their own crew.  (TL 15)
It would have helped immensly to know these things ahead of time.
>    Does anyone know how much B5 displaces? I know it can hold 
250,000.
5million tons

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 02:08:22 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On 09/29/98 at 10:37 AM,  Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> said:

>> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
>> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
>> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
>> from the light's frame of reference, does it?

>>From the light's point of view, it takes infinite time...<snip>...

Andy, that was a rhetorical question.  ;-p 

I had commented that the wedges (Rupert it was the wedge more than
the sidewall I had in mind) prevented anything from reaching the
hull by "slowing it down" so much it didn't have any effect, and
taking infinite time certainly slows it down...from the light's
point of view.  ;->

My take on the Weber Wedge is that they are gravitically induced
singularity planes (areas of infinitely curved space) projected
between Alpha and Beta nodes.  Anything entering that area basically
disappears.  The impulse drive compresses the ship between these
wedges shooting it ahead like a seed squeezed between two fingers.

I speculated that the Weber Fusion Plant was a fusion bomb
compressed within some form of his gravitic magic.  The reaction
occurs at real time within the trap, but is released much more
slowly across the interface.  However, if you drop the gravitic trap
the reaction proceeds as per normal...this gives you the "damage the
plant, plant go boom" effect.

All just magical handwaving, though. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:09:16 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Long response to Re: Money

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
> >
> > IMTU the base unit is the planetary credit, equivalent to 1/10,000th of
> > the average yearly production of its citizens. It is also, roughly, the
> > amount of money an unskilled manual laborer recieves (after accounting
> > fortaxes and dependents) for one hour's work under standard conditions.
> > The Imperial Credit (CrImp) is equivalent to the credit of Capital.

Looking on page 41 of _Pocket Empires_, the second part of your
definition matches almost exactly with the definition of "small-c
credit" (the economist's term, not the name of the currency).  The first
part seems to derive from the paragraph beginning, "The average earnings
of one labor factor (100,000,000 people) are one trillion credits."  

> 
> Thus being canon-correct, and economically nonsensical, as these two values are
> (a) subject to significant differences depending on how they are computed, (b)
> not strongly linked in any case, and (c) not under the control of the
> government, which is what is issuing the money ((c) has more to do with
> political nonsense than economic).  For example, this means that a 'united
> states credit' is worth somewhere between zero (many unskilled laborers make no
> money after accounting for taxes and dependents) to about 80 cents
> (GNP/population) to about $4.50 (minimum wage for a worker with no dependents;
> someone at minimum wage generally pays zero taxes).  It is also subject to
> significant lag based on census figures, etc, and gives the government
> essentially zero leeway to control the economy.
> >
I think that this misreads the definition of "small-c credit" from PE. 
The economic definition from page 41 of PE clearly describes the
relation between taxes, dependents, and "small-c credits."  Once one
figures out how many people can be supported by the income of one
unskilled laborer (we'll use minimum wage as the base income in US
[captial-c] Credits, aka dollars), we can divide that figure by the
"retention rate" a term I have coined to refer to that portion of one's
pay that one keeps after paying taxes) at that income level to determine
the relationship between credits [small-c] and dollars [capital c]. 
Thus, if a minimum-wage worker (I'll use $5.00/hr just to keep the math
simpler) can provide support for one dependent, in addition to
him/her/itself, and pays a net tax rate of 15%, then a US dollar would
equal:

(2 [persons supported] / .85 [retention rate]) / 5 [amount of US
currency to achieve this level of wages], thus:

(2/.85)/5, which equals (2.35)/5, which equals .47 (all calculations
rounded to 2 decimal places), which means that each US dollar is
equivalent to about .47 small-c credits.

This can then be used to determine the effective exchange rate between
planetary currencies, by determining the small-c credit value of each
unit of currency, then determining the ratio between the two.

Of course, an obvious problem is that, for political reasons, the
government of one political entity may set an arbitrary exchange rate
between that entity's currency and another entity's currency (this can
happen at nation-state, world, or inter-planetary/interstellar
government levels).  In this case, the small-c credit ratio described
above, adjusted for purely emotional (aka random) factors, will tell you
the "black market" rate of exchange.

In addition, the political currents on a given world may demand changes
in the relative value of "small-c credits" and the local currency.  For
instance, a government experiencing deficits may choose to inflate the
local currency, by expanding the money supply (depending on the nature
of the currency, this can be done by debasing the currency [adding base
metal to a precious metal currency], printing more currency, or
electronically expanding the effective quantity of currency).  If this
happens, for purposes of interstellar trade, one must recalculate the
"small-c"/capital-c" ratio between the official unit of money and the
overall value of that money. 

<<snip>>
- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:16:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: FF&S2 Errata

I finally own 'Fire, fusion and steel'. Thanks to David Smart for taking
the trouble of sending it and 'Aliens archive' to me.

The volume needs an errata, but I knew that. The problem is, I have
deleted the messages which contained information on where to find it.
Could anyone please give me the URL?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:21:57 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

Aye, tis a sad state of affairs.  When I started gaming back in 77' or 
so, the first thing I ever picked up was an original copy of OGRE (the 
one in the little plastic bag, with counters you had to cut out, and NO 
YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!)  Anyway, I soon progressed to SFB, played some Dice 
and Dice with some friends, then I found this black box with the red 
stripe on my gaming store's shelves.  Ahh, I knew I had found what I had 
been searching for, sort of the Holy Grail of games ya know?  Anyway, 
even though we were as young then as the new gamers are now, we had a 
lot more imagination.  Heck, we not only played SFB, we designed ships, 
scenarios, and actually got to do playtesting for the company!  Those 
were the days.  And Traveller!  Designing whole universes, great fleets, 
we were in gamer's heaven.  Seems like these days, a lot of imagination 
has gone by the wayside with these card games.  Now I know, not all the 
new gamers are in this state, so don't flame me for being narrow minded, 
but sometimes I wonder where the hobby will be in another decade or so.  
I'll still be here (I hope!) Okay, enough mourning, gimme my FFS2, I 
need a bigger plasma rifle!!

Jim
Mourning the State of Affairs


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 98 14:05:31 -0500
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

On 09/24/98 at 05:45 AM,  "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> said:

>Here's my review:

>None of the game stores around here will have it for another week! 
>I'm  so pissed.

I stopped by my NSFLGS yesterday and asked about GURPS Traveller.  I
got blank looks from the black-garbed goth behind the counter, a
shrug and an "I don't know" from the wargame geek stocking the
shelves, and snorts from the card clowns throwing popcorn at each
other at the gaming table.  I always stop by to look for new stuff,
ask if they're expecting/or will special order, get nowhere, and so
end up ordering by mail.  <sigh>

That's my review of the state of the gaming hobby.

Reviewing, GT will have to wait until I get my hands on a copy. ;->


Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:45:42 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
To: "'traveller@mpgn.com'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: RE: GURPS:Traveller and a shameless plug...
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:33:58 -0500
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

cmdrx posted:
> 

Loren, as a player, GM, and collector of Traveller since 1979
I have just one thing to say of my initial perusal of G:T.

*WOW*!!!!

I can't wait to go through it in-depth tonight.
<bounce><bounce><bounce>

(uh oh, it's catching...)

========================================

Okay, if you're all gonna start this bouncing, I'm adding a det-laser to 
my next post, set for anti bounce (a Tigger Trigger???)



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:47:37 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Recent Outage 

> Hurricane Georges wasn't playing nice with our little island.  We got our
> generator fixed and are running on generator power.  We have an estimate of
> 2-5 days before power is restored.  We are going to try to keep the
> generator fueled, but no promises.

We know you're doing your best, Rob.  Thanxx for our fix.  Hang in there.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:22:57 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Vilani measures

> I just liked the idea of the official measurer caste winding a cord
>around their arm 
>and marking off the "tally" on their fingers.

After being surgically modified so as to have a calibrated arm.

Hm. What might actually work. Rather than eliminate the position of
"Official Measurer" when technology makes it obsolete, the
tradition-minded Vilani use technology to keep the position current.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:01:56 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

At 10:16 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Since the transponder is just in effect a radiosignal connected to
>>a computer of some sort, wouldn't it be possible for someone to get a
>>hold of the programming and make as many transponders as need be?
>
>Not if the transponder signal is encrypted. Encryption, by definition, uses
>a secret number or something to encode the signal. Knowing the algorithm
>lets you interpret the signal, but you must know the secret in order to
>generate the signal.
>
>The "secret" could be based on something like quantum transitions, and
>theoretically impossible to duplicate or eavesdrop on.
>

Not true.  To decrypt the signal both sender and reciever must 'know the
secret.'  If the sender used a Hysenberg (do not know the spelling)
randomizer then only the sender would know the 'secret'.  Both sender and
reciever must have a key to work from but a public and a private key system
could be used like in PGP but even that can be broken.  The simple fact is
that anything concieved by man can be bested by man.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:01:59 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Transponders

At 01:37 AM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> If you can turn it off outside Imperial territory, the switch exists
>> when you are in Impie territory. Therefore you can meet a ship
>> with it's transponder turned off, or be in a situation where you
>> suspect the existance of an undetected ship with an off transponder,
>> and legally turn your transponder off yourself while running for
>> safer space inside the Imperium.
>
>You (amongst others) make a quite convincing argument for the mute switch
>being on all ships. : ) I'm game.
>
>Gary
>


I'm afraid that I must aggree for several reasons.  If you look at modern
aviation practices 'transponders' are designed to add a ident signal to
incoming radar signals for tracking purposes.  The concept of 'fingur
printing' space ships to counter piracy is asinine.  All a pirate has to do
is have a legal ship and one without any traansponder and he is untracable.
Also no sane person would be a pasenger on a ship that contiuiosly screamed
'here I am' in pirate infested space or unexplored space.  Also no military
would tolerate the ability to exactly track the moments of their war ships
just as the exact location of our SBNs is a closely gaurded secret.  In
short this level of 'big brotherism' is counter productive to the 'prime
directive' of the Impire which is the free fow of trade and the maintanence
of said free trade.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:14:11 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Free Traders and transponders

Don't know if this made it to the list past the hurricane...

(From an interview with Captain Solomon Katz, master and pilot of the
Far Trader _Mighty Joe_:)

Speculative trade, that's what we's call it. Go out past the frontier
with some stout mates and a hold 'o widgets, take some tinhorn
Emp'ror of some backwater dirtball for all he's worth. Logs? Ya,
we's keeps them, after a fashion...but routes and sightings for
the places what gives good gilt for our holdings, those I keeps right
here in my skull. No port dugger need see where we got these
pretties, and blab to the next sneak Kaptin what buys him a round.

My transponder? Ya, I have one. Maybe I score some class cargo,
can't sell it in my usual places, make more credits putting up with
nonsense at a fancyport. Switch the dam t'ing off more often than
not, why tell everyone "Here I am, come take my ship!"? My sensor
guy got eyes, he can watch scope and see other people coming,
why can't other guy do that too?

Port duggers no like the way I do t'ings, then hell with them. My ship,
my rules - they don't want dibs on this horde we bring back from the
Rim, next planet will. See that "Free" on front of "Trader"? It don't
mean no bank payments. It means I ain't no Vilani clock-puncher,
I go where it please me.

To dam many Kapitans out there wasting their life hauling boxes
from dullport to another and back again, follow every rule them
Impie goons write. Pfaugh!! Why they bother leaving atmosphere?

Ya, I steer clear of Impie ships more often than no. Too many got
funny ideas about who's rules we follow out here. Just in case you
forgot: when I'm flying my ship, I'm following my rules and t' blaze
with anyone tell me different!!

(editor's note: _Mighty Joe_ was posted as missing and presumed
lost on a speculative trade mission ten months after this interview.)


Walt Smith

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #856
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 857



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

TML, MPGN, and GT (was Please read this!)
Re: Recent Outage
Re: Malorn.sar file and system background Word97 file
Gurps Traveller: My $.02
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Long response to Re: Money
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Recent Outage
GURPS Traveller
Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding
Re: firearm safety and technology
FF&S2 armor ratings
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
re: firearm safety
Re: Gurps Traveller
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:38:34 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: TML, MPGN, and GT (was Please read this!)

This came up on one of MPGN's other lists (the Forgotten Realms list). I
thought some of the info was important enough to crosspost.


<snip>

>The great blackout of the weekend is past, but the moderators, monitors
>and the list itself need ***your help*** to get things rolling again, if
>there's another blackout.  Everytime you suspect that there may be a list
>outage, please follow the following rules:
>
>1.  Wait 24 hours before you do anything, and see if the list really is
>down.

<snip>

>3.  If the list appears to be down, ***do not***  do the following:
>
>     Do not send test messages to the list.
>     Do not resubscribe.
>     Do not flood moderators/monitors with eMail queries.
>
>Why?  Test messages just make the problem worse in times of an outage.
>The same goes for resubscriptions of people who already are subscribed.
>While your eMail queries are well meant, the moderators and monitors just
>aren't able to answer the flood of queries that come in.  The result is
>that we have to let your mail go unanswered, and in a way, that forces us
>to be unpolite with you, which isn't something we want to do.

>Andrew Hackard                       Mark Oliva
><hackard@texas.net>                  <Birnensoft@t-online.de>
>Moderator, Forgotten Realms          Moderator, Forgotten Realms
>           Mailing List                         Projects Mailing List
<snip>


ObTrav: GURPS Traveller is out now and living in the pits of Indiana, I
have yet to see a printed copy in my FLGS. I got a chance to playtest it on
SJGames, though, and I know that several others on this list have as well.
My question is directed at those of you that playtested GT and now have a
copy of the final product:

Is GT significantly improved in final form?

From the early reviews, I would guess that it has been, but enquiring minds
want to know. Should I drop $20+ on it?

The playtest itself, although it produced a large volume of traffic, seemed
a bit unfocused to my untrained, outsider eye (with a significant amount of
noise compared to other recent SJG platests). I was wondering if Loren and
crew actually got something constructive out of it.

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:50:56 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Outage

Keven R. Pittsinger posted:
>
>> Hurricane Georges wasn't playing nice with our little island.  We got our
>> generator fixed and are running on generator power.  We have an estimate
of
>> 2-5 days before power is restored.  We are going to try to keep the
>> generator fueled, but no promises.
>
>We know you're doing your best, Rob.  Thanxx for our fix.  Hang in there.
>
>Keven

Can I hear an "Amen"? Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Rob, but
don't fret if you have to bring down the TML for a little. The only
initials you need to be concerned about in your area is "CYA".

David Smart

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:51:05 +0100
From: trisen@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Malorn.sar file and system background Word97 file

These files are now hosted (in ZIPs) at ...

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/personal/traveller/index.html

Regards PLST

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:51:56 -0400
From: "Mike Basinger" <dbasinge@cviog.uga.edu>
Subject: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

I could not believe that my gaming store got a copy of Gurps Traveller so quickly. I
have looking forward to the release of this supplement for some time. Full
disclosure: Gurps isnt my cup of tea (Hero System junkie). I usually buy Gurps
sourcebooks to use in other games.  Im a big Traveller fan. I have played at least
one game in the four previous versions of Traveller.

General Review:
I really like the job that Loren Wiseman and crew did with Gurps Traveller. They
found the element of Traveller that has endeared it to fans for over 20 years: The
unbroken, no rebellion, no virus game world of the Third Imperium. I thought that the
ideas for MegaTraveller  (rebellion) and Traveller: The New Era (collapse of
civilization) were interesting, but should have been alternate timeline sourcebooks
that Traveller players could buy if they were looking for something different. GDW
biggest mistake was to destroy the Third Imperium. The funny thing is Gurps Traveller
is an alternate timelime/reality according to the introduction to Traveller on pg. 4.
I guess the rebellion and collapse will always be the official world.  How Traveller
4th edition fits in this (another alternate timeline?), I have no idea.

Gurp Traveller is probably the largest collection of information of the Third
Imperium game setting collected in one book. That alone makes it worth the $20-22 for
the book.

What I liked:
- - Cover art: The nostalgic black cover brings back memories. A great idea to
go            with the classic cover.

- - The setting and game information: see above.
- - The index: Why do most game companies make good games and not take the extra week
to make a good index for it. A resource book does you no good if you cant find the
information you are looking for. Gurp Traveller has a great index, easy to find
anything.

- - The character templates: Looks like they remembered all the old character careers
from previous versions of Traveller.

- - Conversions Rule: A whole chapter on converting character from old versions of
Traveller. If would have been better if they also gave guideline for converting
creatures also.

- - Deck Plans: Not the best deck plans for Traveller ships I have seen, but good
enough for someone new to Traveller to get started. No Far Trader deck plan though,
looked like it was left out by accident.

- - 2-D Space: I know many people wanted 3-D space maps in the next version of
Traveller for more realism, but really they would be more trouble than they are
worth.  Maybe all points in the galaxy are on the same plane in jump space, so up and
down direction does not matter in space travel.

What I did not like:
- - No information about sectors and subsectors: They should at least have a couple
pages detailing one subsector. The whole book only has one subsector map, with no
details for it. SJG should put subsectors on the web page once in a while as
freebies.

- - World Building: I think this is covered in Gurps Space, but they should have talk
about designing your character homeworld. It really help flesh out a Traveller
character.

- -  No self-contained: This is my Hero System bias showing. It play Gurps Traveller
you will need Gurps Core Rules (duh!!), Compendium I: Character Creation (did not
know about this book till yesterday), and Gurps Space. SJG also suggests Gurps
Ultra-Tech and Ultra-Tech 2, Gurps Vehicles would not hurt, and Gurps Martial Arts if
you plan to play a martial artist.

- - Psioncs: They did not cover psionics that well, but most editions of Traveller
dont really. The truth is that a psionicist in the group is usually more trouble
that they are worth.

- - No creatures: They should have had a couple of example creatures in the book. No
aliens bugglies to shoot with my VRF Guass Gun, DAMN.

Nitpicks:
- - No deckplan for Far Trader: see above.

- - Sidebars: I like the side bars in Gurps sourcebook, but sometimes to miss important
information in them. The Vargr character creation rules were hidden in a side bar,
and I did not see it till the second time I read the rules.

- - No bibliography

Final opinion:
I suggest this book to any gamer who like sci-fi based games. It is a must for a
Gurps player, and Traveller fans. Good job SJG.

Mike Basinger
- --
D. Michael Basinger Computer Support Specialist IV
Carl Vinson Institute of Government - University of Georgia
dbasinge@cviog.uga.edu
http://xboat.cviog.uga.edu/~dbasinge

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:48:02 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

  Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 02:08:22 -0500
  From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>

  On 09/29/98 at 10:37 AM,  Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> said:

  >> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
  >> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
  >> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
  >> from the light's frame of reference, does it?

  >>From the light's point of view, it takes infinite time...<snip>...

Actually, moving clocks run slow as you approach lightspeed.  So from
the light's point of view, the time is zero. :>

  My take on the Weber Wedge is that they are gravitically induced
  singularity planes (areas of infinitely curved space) projected
  between Alpha and Beta nodes.  Anything entering that area basically
  disappears.  The impulse drive compresses the ship between these
  wedges shooting it ahead like a seed squeezed between two fingers.

Weber's ships can still "see" through their wedges.  Therefore,
"anything entering that area basically disappears" is inaccurate.
Anything physical which hits the wedge gets shredded by the tidal
forces, and the light which hits the wedge gets bent so thoroughly
that it is essentially impossible to target the ship.  The ship
generating the wedge knows the exact strength and power of its wedge,
so it can correct and still see out... but any ship trying to shoot in
cannot get a good enough reading off of the wedge to do the same
thing.

This corresponds to the descriptions Weber has given in the books, I
think.

However... if the ship generating the wedge can correct for the wedge,
why can't it shoot energy weapons _OUT_ through the wedge?


His sidewall don't make much sense.  How can a more powerful
laser/graser break through a gravity-generated sidewall more easily?
It's still gravity...  unless the sidewall generators require energy
corresponding to the energy they're trying to affect and when hit with
too much will just pack up and go home.


  I speculated that the Weber Fusion Plant was a fusion bomb
  compressed within some form of his gravitic magic.  The reaction
  occurs at real time within the trap, but is released much more
  slowly across the interface.  However, if you drop the gravitic trap
  the reaction proceeds as per normal...this gives you the "damage the
  plant, plant go boom" effect.

Weber's fusion plant is magnetically contained (he keeps referring to
the stability of the "magnetic bottle") and high energy.  If the
magnetic bottle goes away, the fusion reaction will stop, but the
extremely high energ plasma contained by the magnetic bottle is still
there and has to go _somewhere_.  Hence, fusion plants can go boom.

Another way of looking at it is if you take a high-temperature working
furnace and suddenly pull off one of its walls, heat and flame will
come rolling out the hole.  Now increase the temperature and pressure
inside to something approaching the sun.

	-Robert Ringrose
	 ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Long response to Re: Money

Black ICE writes:
<argument deleted>
> In addition, the political currents on a given world may demand changes
> in the relative value of "small-c credits" and the local currency.  For
> instance, a government experiencing deficits may choose to inflate the
> local currency, by expanding the money supply (depending on the nature
> of the currency, this can be done by debasing the currency [adding base
> metal to a precious metal currency], printing more currency, or
> electronically expanding the effective quantity of currency).  If this
> happens, for purposes of interstellar trade, one must recalculate the
> "small-c"/capital-c" ratio between the official unit of money and the
> overall value of that money. 

My primary objection was to using the 'credit' (as defined from wages) for
_anything_ other than theoretical arguments about economics.  It's also almost
completely irrational to tie the value of local currency to wages -- it's tied
to GPP, and that in turn depends on how you choose to define GPP.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:51:45 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

>Has anyone considered
>modifying damage done by melee weapons based on the skill
>level of the wielder?
A few points:
1) My practical experience at hand to hand fighting with Melee weapons (7
years SCA fighting) has given me the opinion the more skilled fighters are
better at hitting you (chance to hit) than hitting you hard (damage done).
2) Jeez, I started this whole thread because I thought that the
hand-to-hand damage seemed a bit high. You want to increase it?
3) Anything that complexifies combat more than it already is, is not a good
thing.

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:04:31 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@tansoft.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Outage

At 09:50 AM 9/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>> Hurricane Georges wasn't playing nice with our little island.  We got our
>>> generator fixed and are running on generator power.  We have an estimate
>of
>>> 2-5 days before power is restored.  We are going to try to keep the
>>> generator fueled, but no promises.
>>
>>We know you're doing your best, Rob.  Thanxx for our fix.  Hang in there.
>
>Can I hear an "Amen"? Your efforts are greatly appreciated, Rob, but
>don't fret if you have to bring down the TML for a little. The only
>initials you need to be concerned about in your area is "CYA".

We had hoped that we wouldn't go down at all, but Murphy's law said the
generator had to fail.  Any way, good news, we are back on regular power now.  

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:06:23 +0100
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller

Reading all the good comments about GT on the list is just making the
wait for my ordered copy even harder!
BTW does anyone know when the hardback editions will ship from SJGames?

Damned frustrated with the wait
Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:21:07 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Handicapped Question (non-Traveller)

At 03:24 AM 9/26/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:03:06 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> >> Does anyone know of a trackball that uses the standard MicroSoft
>> >> mouse drivers?  (Or whatever is a standard driver on a Digital
>> >> Venturis FX running Windows NT.)
>> 
>> >         Doesn't MS make its own trackball?
>> 
>> Yeah. It's *tiny* thing, meant for to be clipped to the side of a
>> laptop. *Totally* unsuitable for the handicapped. 
>
>Incorrect.  MS makes a trackball version of the intellimouse.  It is a
>mid-sized trackball, although not as nice as the full-sized ones that use
>the larger 2" balls (Logitech's new Marble FX is the one I use, although
>Kensington also comes to mind).
>
>Anyways, most trackballs can be run without installing any additional
>drivers.  You might not gain some of their specific advantages, but you can
>still point-and-click.

MS also produces a special oversized trackball aimed at the youth market
(younger than about 10 or 12).  The ball is about the size of an orange,
and it has large buttons.  Very easy to use.

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:25:16 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding

steve daniels writes...
>Hmm, but charging down the halls of a starship into braced, steadied,
>aimed submachinegun or laser fire on full-auto?  I hope the game
>mechanics don't make axes a wise choice in that situation.  But from
>what you say, I worry.
It depends on what your other options are. Note that the way most starships
are laid out there are seldom any corridors longer than 10m. Any longer and
I'd put a bulkhead in it. Odds are that your welcoming committee is only
going to get one shot anyway. If they don't wipe everyone out (and if the
attackers are armoured, they aren't likely to) they they will be engaged
and unable to return fire as the rest pile in.

Consider a boarding action. The defenders are in the disabled ship and can
hear them on the outside of the hull. They pretty much know which airlock
they are going to break into and can set up their braced, steadied and
aimed submachineguns or lasers. (Note: the result of a separate thread
concluded that shotguns are actually the best weapon to use if you care
about not damaging your ship or fellow crew with ricochets.)
So, the boarders blow the airlock and both parties cling to their
respective cover as the air blows out (if not already blown). What next? If
I was a boarder I'd fling in a smoke grenade (actually, in airless zero-G
it would probably be more like chaff, but that's a different thread). If I
were a defender, I'd respond by opening fire. This isn't a winning
proposition for the defender as the boarder probably has more smoke
grenades than they do clips for continuous fire.
For argument's sake, lets assume the boarders have an infinate amount of
ammunition, something to defeat obscuring devices, or whatever that allows
them to mount continuous effective counterfire out the airlock. As a
boarder, returning fire is not a particularly useful option. You have to
expose yourself to an emplaced position for, at best, a dodgy target.
Chucking grenades down the corridor is slightly better, but not that great
if you want to keep the ship. It seems not an unreasonable option to plan
to charge the corridor with melee weapons and overrun the post.
Now there are clever ways of doing this. Just like police use riot-shields,
I'd put a hullmetal shield in the hands of whoever is on point. If they
have any sort of powered armour, great, you can make it thicker. Chuck in
some more smoke or explosive grenades to soften them up and they you and a
bunch of your buddies charge with axes out. Even if they are still
perfectly prepared they will get one round of fire before you are on top of
them. If you have numerical superiority (the general assumption for
boarding parties of all eras) enough should survive to engage them in the
next round. If nothing else they will occupy them while the next wave of
boarders comes in.
Facing this situation as a defender I'd opt for putting up a front rank of
auto-fire weapons. Deploy the minimum number of people necessary to keep
the corridor up to the first turn in danger space. I'd then deploy the rest
behind them out of direct fire (and sight) with axes (and preferably
shields, but I show my SCA bias there :-). When they make their charge the
gun fighters should try to fall back through the melee ranks while the two
sides engage. The objective for me would then be to push their line back
out through the airlock after which I'd fall back to the original position
and hope they had had enough.

Anyone got another boarding scenario?

Jo

BTW: Steve, fighters practices are Wednesday nights at MIT. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:26:10 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

In a message dated 9/28/98 8:27:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
eclipse@ultranet.com writes:

<< "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com> types:
 >     Works well until one of your gearheads get rid of the transmitters, or
 >some how makes them think the gun was never fired.
 
   Yup.  Local cops *hate* it when they find 'em modified like that. ;-)
 Smuggling non-net firearms onto such a planet is a good business too.
  >>

Plus there is the reverse side of the coin. Figure out a way to lobotimize the
cop's smart guns so they are inoperable. This is a real concern. I have read
many people pointing out (both in gun mags and on line) that a smart gun
(especially Colt's proposed design) can easily be rendered useless if the
smart gun hardware is electrically based. Just remove or drain the power, (or
forget to check the itty bitty watch batteries) and it's dead. The magnetic
ring idea seems a little more do able, and I am considering having my Smith
and Wesson revolver converted when the cost comes down (my weapon cost me $125
used, or $400 new, and I think that the magnetic based system costs more than
the weapon...

To be fair, most of the criticism of the Colt smart gun seems to be based on
statements that the new CEO of Colt firearms has made recently. He has come
out in favor of a nationwide Federal firearms permit. In the US, this is VERY
contraversial (there is this little thing called the Bill of Rights...), and
many consumers feel he is abandoning civilian customers for the more lucrative
government contracts.... In the rest of the world this is a null point, as few
civilians own sidearms (or any firearms for that matter....:-(

Ob Traveller: 

having a PC party learning the finer points of law level the hard way...
Another idea is that of the covert raid, and one idea is to neutralize the
other guys weapons, and did the plan work, and are their weapons REALLY dead
when the PC's go in?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:30:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: FF&S2 armor ratings

I have a problem figuring out the correct T4 armor ratings for the
vehicles I design...

For example, 9 cm of Superdense gives a rating of 180 (!) which is
obviously not correct (the gravtank in CSC with 8.2 cm has a rating of
22). How do I convert these figures to the correct ones used by the rules?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:44:58 +0400
From: Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

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On Tue, 29 Sep 98 02:08:22 -0500, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> 
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<snip>
> 
> Andy, that was a rhetorical question.  ;-p 
> 
Ah. (Clears his throat). Well. Sorry, Eris. I was just so chuffed 
that I could actually ANSWER a question, I jumped in with both feet 
again. Just a second while I get them out of my mouth.

Andy

- - -------------------------------------------------------
Andy Long			andylong@emirates.net.ae
C/o ICL			andyl@icluae.co.ae
PO Box 7237			andrewlong@hotmail.com
Abu Dhabi			+971 (50) 641 8232 (Mobile)
United Arab Emirates	+971 (2) 274688 (Res/Fax)
				+971 (2) 335200 (Office)
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:50:47 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:16:00 -0700, Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>

>The "secret" could be based on something like quantum transitions, and
>theoretically impossible to duplicate or eavesdrop on.

"Theoretically".  How many times has that been inovoked in the past?
How many times have people found ways around supposedly secure systems?
Add the fact that we are talking a system in mass production and I
think the idea that they would be tamper proof to be laughable.
Even if you ignore the idea that we are being inconsistent with
the background (assuming we want to move out of just talking about
TNE) by invoke AI transponders being mass produced in
a setting were AI are rare (they even qualify as adventure
seeds), the idea that you can stick a mass produced item and have
it under the constant, unsupervised, control of the same people
who want to tamper with it, and have it be reliable is just not
realistic to me.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:00:48 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:36:30 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> Not true.  But the point that they are also replaced completely is
>> another source of change.  There is not a single unit of measurement
>> today that is the same as it was even _one_ melennium ago, let along
>> several.

>Want to bet?  The mile in essentially it's current length goes back
>*two* millenia. I suspect the pound is quite close to the Roman
>"librum". In fact, you'll find that *most* non-metric measurements go
>*way* back, with only a few percent varaince over the centuries.

I will backtrack on "not one single".  However, measurements, while
related to old ones, do go though change.  I will bow to the post
on the subject by someone else (before the huricane) that did
a much better job of providing examples than I could.

>And the clincher. Standard railroad gage (spacing between rails) is
>based on the wheel spacing of wagons. The spacing of wagon wheels was
>based on the existing ruts in the roads. And that goes back to the
>spacing of wheels on Imperial Roman chariots! I am *not* making this
>up.

This is a long way from having a complete system of measurement
unchanged for that length of time.  (Heck, it isn't even a
system of measurement and it is not even a standard that all
railroads follow).

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:13:14 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: firearm safety

Sethkimmel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ob Traveller: 

having a PC party learning the finer points of law level the hard way...
Another idea is that of the covert raid, and one idea is to neutralize the
other guys weapons, and did the plan work, and are their weapons REALLY dead
when the PC's go in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ah, the old "sneaky guy slips in and swaps the power packs on their
laser rifles for ice cold cans of Coola Cola" trick...  <g>

Our D&D campaign once upon a time featured a thief who was so
good at picking pockets that he'd sidle up to people and swap their
plus twenty sword of hack-n-slashing for a cursed -20 sword of
clumsiness...his popularity with the party decreased when he used
this trick on the strongest PC we'd ever seen.

("Gorgo not _need_ sword to squish puny thief like bug!!!) <g>

Always a fan of the indirect approach...

Walt

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Well, _my_ FLGS did have it! Also they had a decent collection of IG
> books for those of you looking. Single copies only, but that doesn't
> necessarily mean that was all they had.

There doesn't seem to be any trouble for my local Wizards of the Coast
game center to get the IG products either. They always have the whole
spread on the shelf when I stop by.  I'm hoping to see the first Traveller
approved releases from Gold Rush Games there soon... hoping... hoping...

Begging?

Ben


- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:13:11 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

Wave on, wave on.  It sounds good to me.

Leo




"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> on 09/29/98 12:08:22 AM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)




On 09/29/98 at 10:37 AM,  Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> said:

>> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
>> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
>> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
>> from the light's frame of reference, does it?

>>From the light's point of view, it takes infinite time...<snip>...

Andy, that was a rhetorical question.  ;-p

I had commented that the wedges (Rupert it was the wedge more than
the sidewall I had in mind) prevented anything from reaching the
hull by "slowing it down" so much it didn't have any effect, and
taking infinite time certainly slows it down...from the light's
point of view.  ;->

My take on the Weber Wedge is that they are gravitically induced
singularity planes (areas of infinitely curved space) projected
between Alpha and Beta nodes.  Anything entering that area basically
disappears.  The impulse drive compresses the ship between these
wedges shooting it ahead like a seed squeezed between two fingers.

I speculated that the Weber Fusion Plant was a fusion bomb
compressed within some form of his gravitic magic.  The reaction
occurs at real time within the trap, but is released much more
slowly across the interface.  However, if you drop the gravitic trap
the reaction proceeds as per normal...this gives you the "damage the
plant, plant go boom" effect.

All just magical handwaving, though. ;->

Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #857
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 858



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

MY Gurps Traveller Review
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding
re: MT Hand to hand: Boarding
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Other publishers for Traveller stuff
Re: TML, MPGN, and GT (was Please read this!)
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Duplicate e-mail
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:10:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: MY Gurps Traveller Review

As always, IMNSHO:

GURPS Traveller Review

   Traveller is not so much a game _system_ so much as a game
environnment. Few other RPG's in existence have as richly detailed
setting. GURPS Traveller pays deep and respectful homage to this fact.
The bulk of the book is devoted to source material for the game setting.

   In character it is most like Classic/Megatraveller, covering what is
to most of us familiar ground: The Third Imperium, ca: 1116. Unlike
MegaTraveller, though, the pivotal event has not taken place: the
assasination of Emperor Strephon, and the subsequent collapse of the
Imperium into internecine warfare and rebellion. This is Traveller set
in the Classic 'Golden Age' of Traveller.

    Great care has been taken throughout the rulebook to include players
from other editions of the game; conversion rules are included to
convert characters, ships, worlds and other GM material from other
editions to the GURPS standard, and truthfully, there's little
conversion to be done, as the two systems are truly more alike than not.

    The book is divided into roughly three sections: Background and
Library data, Character generation, and Ship design and operation.

Anyone who's perused the MT Imperial Encyclopedia will be familiar with
the first section (about 70 pages); most all of 'canon' Traveller is
represented there. Almost more valuable than the actual library entries
themselves, are the copious sidebars, which make up roughly a third of
the page; these range from descriptions of K'Kree religious practice, to
a history of the Ziru Siirka, to miscellaneous quotes and adventure
tidbits, to a Vilani Lightbulb joke.

There are also a number of peeks into the minds of the designers,
gleaned from the experience of sopmeone who was there. For instance, the
reason they stuck the 'i' on solomani and humaniti is primarily from one
of Marc's earlier wargames 'Eagles', about the Roman occupation of the
Rhine frontier. Marc just liked the way the Latinization of the German
tribe names sounded: Suebii, Hermandurii, Langobardii. Hence Vilani,
Zhodani, and Solomani. True to the tradition of GDW books, a wealth of
detail is implied in a number of these little sidebars, giving a
perceptive GM many ideas and routes to take their players. 

    The second section is Character generation. Here the differences in
gaming systems are quite pronounced, as GURPS is entirely choice driven,
rather than chance driven as is Traveller. A brief description of the
differences is in a sidebar, and the last chapter of the book is given
over to a detailed comparison and conversion process for existing
characters. The rest of the character section is given over to templates
for a number of different character types roughly equivalent to
Traveller careers (more than MT, fewer than TNE), and an equipment
catalog, which is briefer than, say, the section in the MegaTraveller
players handbook, more like that from the LBB's. 

The book suggests getting GURPS UltraTech books 1 and 2 as supplements,
as well as using the listings in the basic rules for lower tech
equipment. There is a fairly detailed discussion of the use of equipment
from other GURPS sourcebooks, and some more on converting existing
Traveller equipment.

    The third section, including three appendices, is about starships.
This has a brief section on common starships, including nicely executed
deckplans for the Sulieman-class scout, and the now famous Beowulf class
free trader. Detailed statistics are available for a number of other
common ships, again, like those in Megatraveller and the little black
books: The Empress Marava far trader, two examples of a yacht, a safari
ship, a lab ship, a subsidized trader, and a number of non-starships
(all those gigs and pinnaces) and some vehicles. These seem to be
straightforward ports of the classic Traveller ships into GURPS terms, a
very useful tool for those doing conversions of their own designs.
Following this is a design sequence so that you can build your own. This
is a modular system, like Book 2 or QSDS. Modules were developed using
GURPS Vehicles 2nd Ed. and custom modules can be designed using that
source. This is what was promised, yet never quite gelled with FFS2,
QSDS, and SSDS. The third appendix is a starship combat system.

   Now to the big question: should everyone run out and buy this book?
The only people who won't benefit from this book are those who don't
plan a GURPS campaign, and already own the Imperial Encyclopedia. Little
if any of the information in this book is new. That will come later, in
the ongoing sourcebooks to come. If you want to move an existing
Traveller campaign to the GURPS system, then, of course, this is an
essential source, within the limitations of the story line. For the
non-GURPS player this is still a huge source of information for the
Traveller universe that is now in print for the first time in years.

    What of someone buying this new, without a background in Traveller?
In that case they'll get a densely detailed universe in which to place a
game, but no real sense of the grander conflicts in place in the
Traveller game universe, or how to integrate a game into them. Then
again, GURPS has always been a sort of do-it-yourself kind of game, this
is not a lot different from other GURPS source books. Still, a sample
adventure or two, and some more directions would be beneficial for first
timers. This, I hope, will be rectified in further sourcebook releases.
This is really a book for those who know and love Traveller already.

    What GURPS Traveller _really_ signifies is a return to the
mainstream for the Traveller game universe...Steve Jackson Games has
said this is first in a line of Traveller books, and the Spinward
Marches book is soon to come out. There are tantalizing hints of
intrigue and adventure hooks in the ongoing posts on the SJG web site,
promising the continuation of the rich history that Traveller, the game,
has become.

    After the disappointment that T4 engendered (so much promise, so
many _good_ things, mixed with such rubbish that it left a bad taste in
the mouth.) GURPS Traveller makes me feel as though the game has gotten
a fresh start. It feels like Traveller, as T4 did not in many ways. Time
will tell, but if the subsequent sourcebooks and supplements are of the
quality of this book, things look bright indeed. This is a helluva good
job, Loren!

    If you want to move to GURPS Traveller as your main system, you'll
need, at the least, GURPS Lite, the brief synopsis of the rules,
available at www.sjgames.com Recommended additions are the Basic Rules,
GURPS Vehicles, and the aforementioned UltraTech books.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:34:05 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

>I find it very useful to remember the truism that there aren't any
>dangerous weapons, just dangerous people.
>
>I don't know how to knife fight. But I'd advise you to make sure that
>there isn't something similar to what I *do* have some skill in. For
>example, if I'm sweeping the floor, be prepared to be impaled on a
>broomstick.... :-)


While I did not specifically address exotic weaponry, I did mention my
feelings on people who have seen any Jackie Chan movies...

;)

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:44:08 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding

At 06:25 PM 9/29/98 +0100, you wrote:
>steve daniels writes...

>Anyone got another boarding scenario?
>
>Jo
>

Yes,  If I owned a very expensive ship or was captain of said ship I'd
invest a small amount of money (compared to the cost of the ship) in remote
detonated claymores.  I'd place 2 one on each side of each airlock out of
line of sight from the outside and disguised and something mudane and inert
and defend not with standard auto weapons but with hidden ceiling mounted,
independantly powered GATLING lazer cannons with multiview and milimeter
radar imaging in armored universal turrent over ever hatch.  I'd also send
the crew freed up from defence by these proceedure to attack the enemy ship
with plazma genades and shaped charges placed on weapon mounts, power
systems, and the manuvering jets.  Once these were disabled I pull away and
let the defense globes mop up the boarders.  A good alternative to using
your crew to attack is small 'bomb bots' with lazers and limpet mines.  They
can be stored for long peroids of time with minimal cost.  Properly designed
they could also work in mundane jobs like stewards, goffers, maintainences
units or lite cargo movers.

Never give the enemy a break unless it's to your advantage to do so...

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:51:14 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

In a message dated 9/29/98 12:29:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
brannonb@animal.blarg.net writes:

<<  I'm hoping to see the first Traveller
 approved releases from Gold Rush Games there soon... hoping... hoping...
  >>
Tell us more of this line of products, please....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:04:52 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

David P. Summers wrote:

> Even if you ignore the idea that we are being inconsistent with
> the background (assuming we want to move out of just talking about
> TNE) by invoke AI transponders being mass produced in
> a setting were AI are rare (they even qualify as adventure
> seeds),

<Cartman voice mode>

THEY......ARE......NOT.....A...I..'s!

<incohherent obscene Cartman ranting here>

</Cartman voice mode>

They are a LIFEFORM, like a rabbit, or a fungus, or a fish. They just
_happen_ to be made of silicon and EM signals instead of carbon and
electrochemical signals, and have followed an evolutionary path that
enables them to use our electronics as a niche to live in.

This is the absolutely KEY thing to understand about Deyo transponders,
Cymbeline chips and Virus. If you don't grasp this, none of it makes
sense, any more than trees would if you had no concept of DNA based
life. ("What, you put this itty bitty round thing in the ground, give it
water and sunlight, and it turns into THAT!??!! And it's all because of
the arrangement of these four molecules in a line? Ahh bull*t!! Get the
f*k OUT of here!")

IMO this is the same error that Imperial scientists made the moment they
started playing with them, that because they are _of_ technology, they
_are_ technology, and controllable. In fact, they obey every rule of
evolution that the average 3I biologist could have told those people,
had they ever been consulted, which they weren't. These were electronic
chips, who needs to talk to a biologist? Hence we got nifty unforgeable
transponders that were a deadly route into the ship when the nastier
predators we managed to breed got loose and decided to eat them, and all
the other electronics around them.

Of course, everyone just accepts it when there's talk of tailored
plagues and viruses (the _wet_ kind) set loose during the black
wars...we know _all_ about DNA based biological warfare...yet we can't
seemm to accept that they did the _very same thing_ with an electronic
life form.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:13:13 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

     Yes tell us more about Gold Rush Games.  Do they have a web site?  A
number you could call to get information sent to you?  A postal address?
Any information would be appreciated.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 13:04:24 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On 09/30/98 at 07:06 PM,  Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net> said:

>Reading all the good comments about GT on the list is just making the
>wait for my ordered copy even harder!
>BTW does anyone know when the hardback editions will ship from
>SJGames?

I seem to recall that the hardback is expected in late October. I could be
wrong, of course.

Eris,

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 13:12:07 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding

On 09/29/98 at 06:25 PM,  Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com said:

>Facing this situation as a defender I'd opt for putting up a front
>rank of auto-fire weapons. Deploy the minimum number of people
>necessary to keep the corridor up to the first turn in danger space.
>I'd then deploy the rest behind them out of direct fire (and sight)
>with axes (and preferably shields, but I show my SCA bias there :-).
>When they make their charge the gun fighters should try to fall back
>through the melee ranks while the two sides engage. The objective for
>me would then be to push their line back out through the airlock
>after which I'd fall back to the original position and hope they had
>had enough.

I thought sure you'd put a hedge of pikemen behind the gunmen to
hold the boarders off long enough for another round or two...a short
delay is all you need for those autoguns to squeeze off a few more
rounds.  ;-> Of course, if you've got shields that gunfire can't
penetrate then we're back to "hack and slash"...or plasma/fusion
guns. ;-p

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:35:11 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: MT Hand to hand: Boarding

Charles Prevatte wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Never give the enemy a break unless it's to your advantage to do so...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And, of course, the only "break" worth giving an enemy:

An avenue of retreat.

People who have no way out do desperate things. Desperate
things can cause expensive damage to the upholstery inside
your starship, or the crew thereof.

A problem, though: in most cases, if you are getting boarded
you have lost the space battle and cannot get away. Winning
the boarding action - I mean winning it all the way to the
bridge of the enemy ship - may be the only way to end up
on a ship that can get you home. Just driving off the enemy
may leave you in proud possession of a crippled spacegoing
tomb. 

If I were leading a boarding party, BTW, the _last_ place I'd
choose for entry would be an airlock. Visions of the fake airlock
with a several-Megajule laser cannon behind it (as seen in an
old White Dwarf article on repelling boarders) would be just loom
too large in my mind.

Civilian ships, for various aesthetic reasons, often have windows.
Even if the shutters are up, these areas are often weaker...and there
may be too many areas like this for the crew to defend. Battle damage
holes may also be useful, as long as they aren't too radioactive or
otherwise dangerous. The best place is where the crew doesn't
expect you to come in at all.

As for someone else's mention that you could "hear" the enemy moving
around on the hull - that's a pretty thick hull. You could probably
hear them blasting or cutting away at it, though...if you were
crazy enough to still have air in your ship at this point.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:41:50 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In a message dated 9/28/98 23:15:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rboleyn@clear.net.nz writes:

<< My impression was that the gravitic sidewalls work like weaker versions of
 the wedges - they protect against beams by dispersing the beam because of
 the huge gravity gradient. Mind you I can't see how this is supposed to
 stop the X-ray pulse from a nuke (in _Honor amoung Enimies_, IIRC, it
 states that the wedges are proof against any weapon) as this is not
 coherent, linear or focused, but just very powerful and this power is still
 going to exist after traversing the wedge.
  >>

My take on the grav bands is not that they disperse the beam energy, but they
"bend" the beam so that it misses the ship entirely...sidewalls do the same
thing, but are not as powerful, so are easier to punch thru for the beam.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:42:31 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

I have heard Cartman's voice on TML. My life is now complete.


<g>

Great insight, Bruce, on the mistakes made because the chips were
lifeforms instead of computer chips.

Walt Smith


"You find a sentient odor. It's name is Greg" - from Steve Jackson
Game's online version of Warehouse 23

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:58:19 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> on 09/29/98 01:04:52 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Transonders and computers




David P. Summers wrote:

> Even if you ignore the idea that we are being inconsistent with
> the background (assuming we want to move out of just talking about
> TNE) by invoke AI transponders being mass produced in
> a setting were AI are rare (they even qualify as adventure
> seeds),

<Cartman voice mode>

THEY......ARE......NOT.....A...I..'s!

<incohherent obscene Cartman ranting here>

</Cartman voice mode>

They are a LIFEFORM, like a rabbit, or a fungus, or a fish. They just
_happen_ to be made of silicon and EM signals instead of carbon and
electrochemical signals, and have followed an evolutionary path that
enables them to use our electronics as a niche to live in.

This is the absolutely KEY thing to understand about Deyo transponders,
Cymbeline chips and Virus. If you don't grasp this, none of it makes
sense, any more than trees would if you had no concept of DNA based
life. ("What, you put this itty bitty round thing in the ground, give it
water and sunlight, and it turns into THAT!??!! And it's all because of
the arrangement of these four molecules in a line? Ahh bull*t!! Get the
f*k OUT of here!")

IMO this is the same error that Imperial scientists made the moment they
started playing with them, that because they are _of_ technology, they
_are_ technology, and controllable. In fact, they obey every rule of
evolution that the average 3I biologist could have told those people,
had they ever been consulted, which they weren't. These were electronic
chips, who needs to talk to a biologist? Hence we got nifty unforgeable
transponders that were a deadly route into the ship when the nastier
predators we managed to breed got loose and decided to eat them, and all
the other electronics around them.

Of course, everyone just accepts it when there's talk of tailored
plagues and viruses (the _wet_ kind) set loose during the black
wars...we know _all_ about DNA based biological warfare...yet we can't
seemm to accept that they did the _very same thing_ with an electronic
life form.

- --
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group


          Everything I ever read or was told about the VIRUS was that it
      was caused by a group of scientists working with the semi-sentient
      crystals used in imperial computers.  They created a virus that was
      supposed to take over a ships computer, and render it helpless so
      that there forces could then take the ship, repair any minor damages,
      and use it in the war.  They messed up.  The virus caused the
      crystals to become sentient, and they went on a rampage.  Thus was
      born the Viral AI computers.  If they had not played with the
      crystals they would still be working away today.  The most
      frightening element of the TNE setting, is that they still use those
      crystals in their computer systems (required for any computer systems
      over 9 but under 17) and so run the risk of Virus infection every
      time they encounter another ship.



Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:02:20 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding

     Plasma and Fusion gun can penetrate hull armor and so for boarding
actions are a very big no no.  The point of a boarding action is to take
the ship mostly intact, or at least the cargo.  If a Fusion gun can
penitrate hull armor, what do you think it's going to do to the insides of
that starship if you let loose?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:05:29 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

     Hey they just work and make the series that much more enjoyable.  If
you want to know how they work reread On Basilisk Station and Honor
explains it while thinking about the changes to her ship and also again
while in combat.

Leo




DustyLV769@aol.com on 09/29/98 01:41:50 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)




In a message dated 9/28/98 23:15:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rboleyn@clear.net.nz writes:

<< My impression was that the gravitic sidewalls work like weaker versions
of
 the wedges - they protect against beams by dispersing the beam because of
 the huge gravity gradient. Mind you I can't see how this is supposed to
 stop the X-ray pulse from a nuke (in _Honor amoung Enimies_, IIRC, it
 states that the wedges are proof against any weapon) as this is not
 coherent, linear or focused, but just very powerful and this power is
still
 going to exist after traversing the wedge.
  >>

My take on the grav bands is not that they disperse the beam energy, but they
"bend" the beam so that it misses the ship entirely...sidewalls do the same
thing, but are not as powerful, so are easier to punch thru for the beam.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:37:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Other publishers for Traveller stuff

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Leo Hale wrote:

>      Yes tell us more about Gold Rush Games.  Do they have a web site?
A
> number you could call to get information sent to you?  A postal address?
> Any information would be appreciated.
>
> Leo
>      

Gold Rush Games is a company that publishes third-party supplements for
some games. Most recently they have made a splash with their new campaign
setting for Champions - San Angelo: City of Heroes.

Mark Arsenault mentioned to me that he had been trying to negotiate a
licencing agreement for Traveller products for some time. He apparently
has material ready to publish if he were to be able to get the green
light. I was hoping this would go through, since it would provide a US
based provider / distributor for Traveller.

Their products seem to be of high quality both editorially and
cosmetically.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/goldrushg/index.htm

I assume that there is some legal hold-up for the whole affair, but I
don't know any of the specifics.

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:38:01 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: TML, MPGN, and GT (was Please read this!)

Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:38:34 -0500, yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
>The playtest itself, although it produced a large volume of traffic, seemed
>a bit unfocused to my untrained, outsider eye (with a significant amount of
>noise compared to other recent SJG platests). I was wondering if Loren and
>crew actually got something constructive out of it.

They did.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:46:13 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

>- -  No self-contained: This is my Hero System bias showing. It play Gurps
>Traveller
>you will need Gurps Core Rules (duh!!), Compendium I: Character Creation
>(did not
>know about this book till yesterday), and Gurps Space.

While these books are things that I think people may want to get,
you can get by without them.  Heck, if you wanted to, you could, if
you are flexible, squeek by with GURPS Traveller and GURPS
Lite, the free version you can download (at least for a while).
With just GURPS Basic and GURPS Traveller you, at most, might
end up having to make up a skill or two yourself (if that).

>- - Psioncs: They did not cover psionics that well, but most editions of
>Traveller
>dont really. The truth is that a psionicist in the group is usually more
>trouble
>that they are worth.

The general psionics system is in GURPS Basic.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:54:41 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Duplicate e-mail

     Could someone please send me the command to make this thing not end me
my own e-mail messages?  My system already keeps a copy of every message I
send out, I have no need for two.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:55:46 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

     What is a "Sentient odor"?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:25:08 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      What is a "Sentient odor"?
>                 ^^^^^^^^  ("Scentient?")  
> Leo

Something with "common scents."  :-D

ObTrav:  Has anyone developed a gaseous life form for their Traveller
campaigns?  If so, was it sophontic (is "sophontic" a word?)?

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:21:21 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 07:15 AM 9/25/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> A more promising system is a low-powered radar that tracks bullets back to
>> their point of origin.  Link that to a minigun.  Pureed Sniper.
>
>Miniguns use *way* too much ammo. Maybe an automated grenade launcer?
>I'd go for a mortar, but there are times when the mortar shell can't
>reach because of the high angle trajectory.

When I was at Ft. Benning, an USAF type explained the joys of hooking such
a system up to an AC-130 Spectre.

Using a Mk19 AGL would make sense, but I was thinking of the advantage of
having a nearly soldi line of tracers reaching the enemy position.
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #858
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 29 1998     Volume 1998 : Number 859



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: List operation.
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: firearm safety and technology
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: firearm safety and technology
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: MT Hand to hand: Boarding
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Other publishers for Traveller stuff
GTrav and "Alternate History"
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: GTrav and "Alternate History" 
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:27:23 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: List operation.

At 02:01 PM 9/28/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>I subscribed to the traveller list last week.  When I came in this morning I
>had no mail pending and have had no mail in the last two hours.  Does the
>traveller list shut down over the weekend or have I somehow been removed
>from the list?

The list is operated out of southern Florida, which was hot by a category
four hurricane.  The host computer was knocked out along with every other
piece of electricasl equipment in the region.

It's now up and running fine, welcome to the TML!
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:27:58 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called of
all things "GURPS: Psionics".

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:48:08 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

At 02:08 29/09/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:

>I had commented that the wedges (Rupert it was the wedge more than
>the sidewall I had in mind) prevented anything from reaching the
>hull by "slowing it down" so much it didn't have any effect, and
>taking infinite time certainly slows it down...from the light's
>point of view.  ;->
>
>My take on the Weber Wedge is that they are gravitically induced
>singularity planes (areas of infinitely curved space) projected
>between Alpha and Beta nodes.  Anything entering that area basically
>disappears.  The impulse drive compresses the ship between these
>wedges shooting it ahead like a seed squeezed between two fingers.

The problem with them being singularities is that the ship that 'owns' the
wedges can use sensors through them because they now the exact geometry and
gradient of them. For this to be at all useful the light coming through the
wedges can't be slowed up significantly. This doesn't stop more powerful
fields being used in the reactors, though.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:14:31 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

At 13:26 29/09/98 EDT, Sethkimmel wrote:

>To be fair, most of the criticism of the Colt smart gun seems to be based on
>statements that the new CEO of Colt firearms has made recently. He has come
>out in favor of a nationwide Federal firearms permit. In the US, this is VERY
>contraversial (there is this little thing called the Bill of Rights...), and
>many consumers feel he is abandoning civilian customers for the more
lucrative
>government contracts.... In the rest of the world this is a null point, as
few
>civilians own sidearms (or any firearms for that matter....:-(

While it is true that in the rest of the world few civilians own handguns,
in many European countries (excluding England) many people own rifles and
shotguns, and here in New Zealand the firearms ownership rate is very high
(though it is difficult to get a licence to legally own a pistol or a
"Military Style Semi-Automatic" rifle), but dropping due to the government
making it harder and more expensive to own a weapon. A word for those who
think this is a good idea - most of the now illegal weapons haven't been
surrendered or sold to those who are still allowed to own them, but have
instead dissappeared (this happened in Australia, too), so all it has done
is put more guns in the hands on the bad guys.

Ob Trav: Has anyone ever noticed how peeved players get when they land on a
high Law Level world and find that every shady character but them has a gun?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:59:19 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

At 03:27 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called of
>all things "GURPS: Psionics".

Yes, but..

I've collect GURPS books for years, so I already have all the books
mentioned, along with a few (dozen) others.  Traveller/Illuminati anyone?

For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:53:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> Ob Trav: Has anyone ever noticed how peeved players get when they land on a
> high Law Level world and find that every shady character but them has a
> gun? 

You mean your PCs give up their guns just because it's a high law level world?
Obviously they aren't truly shady characters (truly talented shady characters
smuggle their guns onto the world, along with enough extra guns to make a tidy
profit selling them to the local shady characters).  Seriously, in high law
level worlds where there is actually enough enforcement to prevent PCs from
getting guns there's probably also enough enforcement that a significant
fraction of the shady characters won't have guns either.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:00:38 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> On 09/30/98 at 07:06 PM,  Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net> said:
> 
> >Reading all the good comments about GT on the list is just making the
> >wait for my ordered copy even harder!
> >BTW does anyone know when the hardback editions will ship from
> >SJGames?
> 
> I seem to recall that the hardback is expected in late October. I could be wrong, of course.
> 
That's what's currently posted (as of 23 Sep 98) on the SJG Web site.

> Eris,
> 
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
> -----------------------------------------------------------

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:04:48 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

deck plans and space looks like this each square is 1.5 x 1.5 x 3
 measurement in meters). That gives you a 14kl volume of space and 9 foot
ceilings (about). Space is lost and found in the fact that some of the
ceiling hieght and space between decks is used for plumbing and other
equipment .  Life surport is a black box right... lets call some of the
volume for advance and basic life surport duct work and pipes. Then you call
a part of that space inbetween the decks.  Avonics is something pretty much
the same with that crawl space forward of the bridge.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists


>David J. Golden writes:
>>      Actually, I've always counted the volume of the "stuff" as being
>> included in the volume of the various systems. Thus, if you've got 14
>> cubic meters of jump drive, the actual machinery is part of that, as
>> is the access space around it, the ductwork, power, etc. And normal
>> 8' ceilings are 2.5m, so it's not that excessive.
>
>If that 'stuff' is counted against some other displacement, you shouldn't
count
>it against your available volume for the room.  As for 8' ceilings, while
>that's reasonably normal for buildings, vehicles have a tendency to be more
>cramped than that.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:05:50 -0400
From: "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com>
Subject: Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

- -----Original Message-----
From: jim clem <travmind@hotmail.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:57 AM
Subject: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller


>Aye, tis a sad state of affairs.  When I started gaming back in 77' or
>so, the first thing I ever picked up was an original copy of OGRE (the
>one in the little plastic bag, with counters you had to cut out, and NO
>YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!)  Anyway, I soon progressed to SFB, played some Dice
>and Dice with some friends, then I found this black box with the red
>stripe on my gaming store's shelves.  Ahh, I knew I had found what I had
>been searching for, sort of the Holy Grail of games ya know?  Anyway,
>even though we were as young then as the new gamers are now, we had a
>lot more imagination.  Heck, we not only played SFB, we designed ships,
>scenarios, and actually got to do playtesting for the company!  Those
>were the days.  And Traveller!  Designing whole universes, great fleets,
>we were in gamer's heaven.  Seems like these days, a lot of imagination
>has gone by the wayside with these card games.  Now I know, not all the
>new gamers are in this state, so don't flame me for being narrow minded,
>but sometimes I wonder where the hobby will be in another decade or so.
>I'll still be here (I hope!) Okay, enough mourning, gimme my FFS2, I
>need a bigger plasma rifle!!
>
>Jim
>Mourning the State of Affairs
>
I truely believe that there is a growth in the rebirth of gaming. Black clad
gothes have offered me the best role-playing that I had in years. They don't
worry about buying equipment or how big the plasma rifle is. They are all in
to charater. If you can tear a card player away from the cards long enough
they have good wargame statagies and know about attrition(Sp) and how to win
battles in the long run. Old school gamers we are have helped to create both
these groups and many more. just last weekend my Traveller group did a
little popcorn throwing.

CCG's is a good way to get ppl hooked on the concept of gaming. Do you
honestly remeber those first games?  The hours of charater creation and the
boredom? and the book passing? Remember We where younger then and didn't
have the money to buy multicopies of the same book. Cards are cheap and
after cards you may find a role-playing game in that genra.. and a wargame.
I hate to bring this up but look at AEG's Legand of the Five rings game...
it started as a card game.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:06:30 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to hand: Boarding

Walter Smith wrote:
> 
<<snips good points about gaining entry during boarding actions>>
> 
> As for someone else's mention that you could "hear" the enemy moving
> around on the hull - that's a pretty thick hull. You could probably
> hear them blasting or cutting away at it, though...if you were
> crazy enough to still have air in your ship at this point.
> 
I would expect that, given the right equipment (which would be standard
issue in _my_ Navy!), you could triangulate movement on the outside of
the hull through induced vibration, at least well enough to assemble a
fair portion of your defensive personnel and firepower.  (Anyone who
neglects to maintain at least _some_ reserve deserves what he/she/it
gets....) 

> Walt Smith

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:08:35 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:18:52 +0400, Andy Long <andylong@emirates.net.ae>

>On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:24:42 -0700, "David P. Summers"
><summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
><Snip>
>>
>> And infrastructure that is only a fraction of the size of the
>Vilani
>> Empire.  Suppose we wanted to have everyone in the world drive
>> on the same side of the road?  Would the entire world switch to
>> to driving on the left to match Japan and England?  Or would
>> it be the other way around?

>I think you've missed a few other countries there - like Australia,
>New Zealand, India, South Africa, (I think China is right hand drive
>too?)....

They drive on the left in Hong Kong, but in the rest of China they
drive on the right.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:16:04 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

     Why worry about ammo.  Use Gauss ammo (Small slugs with fins, no
explosives) and just hook the emplaced gun up to a very large hopper.  If
the gun is a VRF of some type, you may not kill a target in heavy armor,
but you'll knock the c**p out of him and either knock him out or at least
keep him from targeting anyone.

Leo




dberry@hooked.net on 09/29/98 03:21:21 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)




At 07:15 AM 9/25/98 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>> A more promising system is a low-powered radar that tracks bullets back
to
>> their point of origin.  Link that to a minigun.  Pureed Sniper.
>
>Miniguns use *way* too much ammo. Maybe an automated grenade launcer?
>I'd go for a mortar, but there are times when the mortar shell can't
>reach because of the high angle trajectory.

When I was at Ft. Benning, an USAF type explained the joys of hooking such
a system up to an AC-130 Spectre.

Using a Mk19 AGL would make sense, but I was thinking of the advantage of
having a nearly soldi line of tracers reaching the enemy position.
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' |
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:08:15 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Other publishers for Traveller stuff

ames.  Do they have a web site?
>A
>> number you could call to get information sent to you?  A postal address?
>> Any information would be appreciated.
>>
>> Leo

Speaking from  a Hero System standpoint, Goldrush Does an excellent job.
I have liked what I have seen from them and any Traveller Stuff would
probably be as good.
Thomas Vickers

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:30:02 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: GTrav and "Alternate History"

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:14:51 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:51:56 -0400
>From: "Mike Basinger" <dbasinge@cviog.uga.edu>
>Subject: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
>
>General Review:
>I really like the job that Loren Wiseman and crew did with Gurps Traveller. They
>found the element of Traveller that has endeared it to fans for over 20 years: The
>unbroken, no rebellion, no virus game world of the Third Imperium. I thought that the
>ideas for MegaTraveller  (rebellion) and Traveller: The New Era (collapse of
>civilization) were interesting, but should have been alternate timeline sourcebooks
>that Traveller players could buy if they were looking for something different. GDW
>biggest mistake was to destroy the Third Imperium. The funny thing is Gurps Traveller
>is an alternate timelime/reality according to the introduction to Traveller on pg. 4.
>I guess the rebellion and collapse will always be the official world.  How Traveller

Why? If Steve Jackson Games are not going to support anything post-Classic
Traveller, it would be more correct (and then marginally so) to say ...

"I guess for many old-time players the rebellion and collapse will always be
remembered"

GURPS Traveller *is* the "official" world now. Check their author want list ...
they've got masses of Traveller stuff there, and nary a mention of the rebellion
and virus. I think it is extremely likely that rebellion and virus are dead for
all time. Ergo, whether people like it or not, the Classic Traveller background
is *again* the "official world".

>4th edition fits in this (another alternate timeline?), I have no idea.

T4 was a sign that the rebellion and virus were dead. GURPS Traveller is the
final nail in their coffin.

Personally, I always liked the idea of the rebellion ... it gave great scope for
adventures; virus, on the other hand, was just downright stupid and an insult to
the intelligence (and, no, if you don't know why that's my opinion of virus, I'm
*not* going to get into a flamewar with *anyone* ... my opinions are pretty
widely known, and you either agree or disagree with them already).

However, like all of us, GURPS Traveller is a chance to continue with whatever
background that we wish to ... if you want to continue in the world of the
Rebellion, fine; if you want to <shudder> continue with the world of virus, also
fine.

*NEW* Players, however, who will hopefully soon outnumber the old players on
this list, will see *their* version of Traveller as the "one true way" for the
most part.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:34:31 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 05:41 PM 9/28/98 , TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
>snippo<<
>>>> Shutting off coms would not cause the ship to "mlet down"
>
>Not the ship, silly goose, just the transponder.

Ok let us look at this from a *different* view then.....

Case 1: The "ChatterBox" chip has to have continuous communications outside
the ship, or it suffers communication meltdown. 

Counter Case 1: Then it will meltdown when the ship goes into jump space
then...

Counter Case 1a: The ship transporting newly made "Chatter Box' chips has
to let them all talk at once, and the *breeding center* also to let them
"chatter" at will. "Talk a about a Spoo Herding"<G>

Case 2: The "Chatter Box" chip does not meltdown in jump space but is
somehow *aware* of what jump space is and can accept the no communications
link for a time.

Counter Case 2: If the CB chip can tolerate no commo for a time then it can
be used to *defeat* the CB chip's functions. Ie turn the comm link when
going some place you do not want it to exchange info with any other CB
boxes. Then *dummy* up the ships log to show reason for such ie
communications failure or power malfunctions.

>> Well let see if every A class starport has say four techs, every Class B
>> has three techs, every C class has two techs that can *access* the "Chatter
>> Box" black box. Lets says the imperium of 11,000 worlds three quarters fo
>
>Doubtful.  These thigns were pretty hush hush.  Maybe one central
place/Domain
>(maybe Sector).  Hell, I can buy one main facility for the whole Imperium!
>Componets,etc from many sources, but the chip itself (assembly, breeding,
etc)
>from just one place.  Robot construction facilities w/ some odd human
>supervision making sure everything is running. The only place people are in
>the loop is for the breeding, "human necessary" decisions, etc.  

Ok how installs them in starships new and old,, robots?, no I say sentient
technicians with the *right* tools and skills. The direct link to the
communications has to be connected then tested. Also the power connections
have to be connected and tested.

Also keeping a "Chatter Box" circuit a *secret* would not even be possible. 
1. Some military personnel would have some knowledge of CB Black Boxes
2. A competent commo operator could tell the that comm channels 12a and 17c
are in use, but by anyone on board. During those long jump space times the
comm tech(s) could trace the down the *unknown* user of comm channels.
After that the knowledge starts getting spread around.

>> Box". Due to the nature of covert/criminal ops, to say that more than one
>> of those BB techs would be *persuaded* to *pass on* such knowledge and
>> skills would be a vast understatement. 
>
>Except there aren't any black box techs.  Broken ones are destroyed by their
>tamper circuit.  Integrity breeched, comm/computer access broken=SDG and
>control circuit melted.  Need new transponder.  The new transponder is told
>what ship its installed in and it's *never* forgotten (though that one can be
>destroyed... install new one and back to the beginning...etc etc).  Maybe the
>explanation will be satisfactory to keep one out of the slammer, but maybe
>not. : )

Ok then who tells the CB BB its new ship's ID then surely not the human
necessary techs on the *breeding* farm then they ship it where needled talk
about a logistics nightmare.

>> The above does not factor into equation the *efforts* of non Imperial
>> governments in getting the "Chatter Box" to sing another tune.<G>
>
>First, they have to know what's in the black box.  That's doable, but isn't
>easy.  (Supposed to be unknown to the general public).  Then they've got to be
>able to open a box w/o melting the chip to slag (or otherwise acquire a
>"Strain D, Group-313F" Chip).  Any ol chip from Cymbeline wont do it.  The
>Imperium breeded the features they wanted into them (reliable mutation and
>thus being able to authenticate themselves to each other) for about 50 years.
>Any of these govts would be starting from scratch on their own breeding
>programs.  Of course, espionage is doable, but getting the exact evolution
>(and thus mutation) of the 3I's?  Very doubtful.  In any case, these new chips
>would still be from a different strain (which would return a "false" squawk
>from your trusty Imperial transponder) and the chip couldn't "fake the funk"
>and give it's history back to its ancestors in the Imperial lab unless it came
>from there.  If chips could be smuggled out from the Imperial lab, then the
>game is over.  Expect a serious Imperial intellegence (and military)
>establishment in the vicinity of the transponder research station(s)/lab(s). 

The tech(s) don't have to know squat about what's inside it would help but
it would not be needed.

Assumption 1: The CB circuit is less powerful than a average ships computer.
Assumption 2: The CB circuit is only *directly* tied into the commo system.
Assumption 3: The CB circuit has no way of telling what is outside it's
black box.
Assumption 4: The CB circuit has no way a knowing which other CB's are in
comm range, the only way for it to find out is to transmit and await and
answer.

Ok here it comes, 
First thing the techs do is isolate the CB from the ship's comm system most
likely during jump.
Second install a *second* commo system tied directly to the CB chip's BB.
The second commo system(phantom)is a dummy system of such quality the
limited Intel CB can not tell it from the real thing.
Third tie a *powerful* separate computer into the *phantom* comm system.
Then basically put the CB BB into a *virtual reality* of the techs
choosing, thus giving the CB BB the desired info. Since the CB BB is un
forgeable the *new* info that the CB BB will be given out will accepted as
*Holy Gospel*.

In the above example  the BB was not broken into just given a different
perspective.

Sinbad Sam
sinbad@hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:31:32 -0700
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

>>I had commented that the wedges (Rupert it was the wedge more than
>>the sidewall I had in mind) prevented anything from reaching the
>>hull by "slowing it down" so much it didn't have any effect, and
>>taking infinite time certainly slows it down...from the light's
>>point of view.  ;->
>>
>>My take on the Weber Wedge is that they are gravitically induced
>>singularity planes (areas of infinitely curved space) projected
>>between Alpha and Beta nodes.  Anything entering that area basically
>>disappears.  The impulse drive compresses the ship between these
>>wedges shooting it ahead like a seed squeezed between two fingers.
>
>The problem with them being singularities is that the ship that 'owns' the
>wedges can use sensors through them because they now the exact geometry and
>gradient of them. For this to be at all useful the light coming through the
>wedges can't be slowed up significantly. This doesn't stop more powerful
>fields being used in the reactors, though.
>
Have any of you read the news book "In Enemy Hands".Weber shows what happens
when a wedge is used in side something. One word "messy".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:16:35 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
> GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
> supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.

The wishlist seems a little expansive to me.  I really wish they could get
the Major Alien races into 1 volume.  Perhaps I'm too much a fan of
the Alien Encyclopedia.  But I think in 20 pages/race you could give enough
detail for players and referees, instead of totally postponing non-humaniti
chargen to upcoming supplements (which don't even have contracts done).

Guess I'll use some of the pre-G:T Traveller-Gurps conversion stuff on
the web.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:35:06 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: GTrav and "Alternate History" 

> GURPS Traveller *is* the "official" world now. Check their author want list ...

Until T% comes out, anyways.

> they've got masses of Traveller stuff there, and nary a mention of the rebellion
> and virus. I think it is extremely likely that rebellion and virus are dead for
> all time. Ergo, whether people like it or not, the Classic Traveller background
> is *again* the "official world".

I don't see the Rebellion as invalidating CT at all.  AAMOF, the Rebellion is 
alive & kicking in my CT campaign, 'Candles Against The Night'.  As for Virus, 
well, that's a different story.
 
> >4th edition fits in this (another alternate timeline?), I have no idea.
> 
> T4 was a sign that the rebellion and virus were dead. GURPS Traveller is the
> final nail in their coffin.

T4 was Traveller 'In The Beginning'.  Us fossils knew the history of the *end* 
of the Imperium, here was our chance to get things steamengining at the 
*beginning* of the Imperium.  It in no way invalidated the Rebellion or Virus, 
just shoved them about 1100 years into the future.

> However, like all of us, GURPS Traveller is a chance to continue with whatever
> background that we wish to ... if you want to continue in the world of the
> Rebellion, fine; if you want to <shudder> continue with the world of virus, also
> fine.

CT still works for me.  It may be old, but there's *still* some life left in 
it.

> *NEW* Players, however, who will hopefully soon outnumber the old players on
> this list, will see *their* version of Traveller as the "one true way" for the
> most part.

And we'll be stuck educating them about their unknown past and chuckle at them
when they use American units of measurement rather than metric for their boat
designs.  Fun, fun, fun.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:56:29 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

>-  No self-contained: This is my Hero System bias showing. It play Gurps
> Traveller you will need Gurps Core Rules (duh!!), Compendium I:
> Character Creation (did not know about this book till yesterday), and
> Gurps Space. SJG also suggests Gurps Ultra-Tech and Ultra-Tech 2, Gurps
> Vehicles would not hurt, and Gurps Martial Arts if you plan to play a
> martial artist.

I was really hoping that they'd do this like they did the GURPS: Diskworld
that just came out.  It really impressed me by having GURPS Lite in the
back of the book.

What really irritates me is stating you need Compendium I, isn't it
currently out of print?!?!?  I do know that it isn't always available.
That isn't the kind of book you should require.  It took me a year to get a
copy of GURPS Vehicles because it was out of print.

Having said that the only book listed above I don't have is the GURPS
Marital Arts.  I can see GURPS Ultra-Tech and Ultra-Tech 2 as being very
good books to have, for all that goes, I think any of the Tech books are
good to have, even if you're not playing GURPS!

I think I can sum it up in one sentence.  Great list of books, but how many
are currently available?

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #859
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 860



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Recent Outage
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #859
Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding (Long)
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100) 
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #859
GURPS Trav deckplans
TNE Combat
Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 20:13:25 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On 09/30/98 at 09:48 AM,  Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> said:

>The problem with them being singularities is that the ship that
>'owns' the wedges can use sensors through them because they now the
>exact geometry and gradient of them. For this to be at all useful the
>light coming through the wedges can't be slowed up significantly.
>This doesn't stop more powerful fields being used in the reactors,
>though.

Through the wedge?  Really?  I thought a couple of tactical
maneuvers in the books depended on the inability to sense anything
through the wedge.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:27:49 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

>The problem with them being singularities is that the ship that 'owns' the
>wedges can use sensors through them because they now the exact geometry and
>gradient of them. For this to be at all useful the light coming through the
>wedges can't be slowed up significantly. This doesn't stop more powerful
>fields being used in the reactors, though.


Weber is pretty clear on the fact that the owning ship *can* see through
them.  The only times Honor has not been able to do so is when she has her
ship shot up badly.

Come to think of it...that's pretty often!  :)

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:34:04 -0500
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

Jo Grant posted:
>
>>Has anyone considered
>>modifying damage done by melee weapons based on the skill
>>level of the wielder?
>A few points:
>1) My practical experience at hand to hand fighting with Melee weapons (7
>years SCA fighting) has given me the opinion the more skilled fighters are
>better at hitting you (chance to hit) than hitting you hard (damage done).
>2) Jeez, I started this whole thread because I thought that the
>hand-to-hand damage seemed a bit high. You want to increase it?
>3) Anything that complexifies combat more than it already is, is not a good
>thing.

My three years of martial arts training (and actually trying out the MT
combat rules after 3 years of not usinh them) says you're right on all
points. :-)  I freely admit to being a bit of a Bruce Lee geek.

One HTH rule I dropped was the roll to see if a character could attack.
This seemed to be, IMO, an unnecessary complication because, again IMO,
if the attack roll is successful then the character obviously had the
chance to attack. If the roll wasn't successful, the reason for failure
isn't that relevant.

David Smart

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:46:23 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Outage

At 09:21 AM 9/29/98 -0500, Rob & Kevin wrote:
>> Hurricane Georges wasn't playing nice with our little island.  We got our
>> generator fixed and are running on generator power.  We have an estimate of
>> 2-5 days before power is restored.  We are going to try to keep the
>> generator fueled, but no promises.
>
>We know you're doing your best, Rob.  Thanxx for our fix.  Hang in there.
>

Oog.  This is kinda like getting a Signal GK from an asteroid settlement on
the far side of nowhere!  




Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:57:24 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

At 04:48 PM 9/29/98 -0500, Eris wrote:
>On 09/30/98 at 07:06 PM,  Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net> said:
>
>>Reading all the good comments about GT on the list is just making the
>>wait for my ordered copy even harder!
>>BTW does anyone know when the hardback editions will ship from
>>SJGames?
>
>I seem to recall that the hardback is expected in late October. I could be
wrong, of course.
>

The SJG website says that both the hardback and Behind the Claw (Spinward
Marches) will be out in October...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:17:13 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

Leo Hale wrote:

>      Everything I ever read or was told about the VIRUS was that it
>       was caused by a group of scientists working with the semi-sentient
>       crystals used in imperial computers.  They created a virus that was

I don't know where u've read that Leo.  Survival Margin (pg69-81) and TNE main
book (pg 74-78) are pretty clear.  Sounds like you're reading some the TNE-
hater strawman arguments. ; )

>       supposed to take over a ships computer, and render it helpless so
>       that there forces could then take the ship, repair any minor damages,
>       and use it in the war.  They messed up.  The virus caused the
>       crystals to become sentient, and they went on a rampage.  Thus was
>       born the Viral AI computers.  If they had not played with the
>       crystals they would still be working away today.  The most
>       frightening element of the TNE setting, is that they still use those
>       crystals in their computer systems (required for any computer systems
>       over 9 but under 17) and so run the risk of Virus infection every
>       time they encounter another ship.

They are most certainly NOT used in the New Era.  The Free Traders that have
survived were in ships either too low tech (TL10-) or ones that made a
decision to disconnect or otherwise remove/destroy their transponders during
the Rebellion and Hard Times.  The Domain of Deneb "protected themselves"
presumably by yanking out all their black boxes and going to a simpler, more
fallable kind of transponder.  The Reformation Coalition and the various
pocket empires are either doing new construction and using an alternative
transponder style or went the route of the Free Traders and/or Regency.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:17:01 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

"Sinbad Sam" wrote:

> >Not the ship, silly goose, just the transponder.

> Case 1: The "ChatterBox" chip has to have continuous communications outside
> the ship, or it suffers communication meltdown.

No, it only has to have continuous and unimpared access to the comm systems
(using whatever frequencies are unused) and w/ the main computers and
databanks.
The tamper circuit fires (melting down the chips) if the black box is
disconnected from these.  So the transponder is chattering the whole time in
jump space, just noone else is there to hear.  The transponder doesn't have to
*hear* conversation.  They don't chatter before their connected to a comm
system (anymore than a person chatters endlessly in his skull- yes some people
do that more than others<g>).

> >Doubtful.  These thigns were pretty hush hush.  Maybe one central
place/Domain
> >(maybe Sector).  Hell, I can buy one main facility for the whole Imperium!
> >Componets,etc from many sources, but the chip itself (assembly, breeding,
etc)
> >from just one place.  Robot construction facilities w/ some odd human
> >supervision making sure everything is running. The only place people are in
> >the loop is for the breeding, "human necessary" decisions, etc.
> 
> Ok how installs them in starships new and old,, robots?, no I say sentient
> technicians with the *right* tools and skills. The direct link to the
> communications has to be connected then tested. Also the power connections
> have to be connected and tested.

Black boxes are installed as one piece.  Something breaks in there, the whole
thing is taken out and a whole new black box is put in as a replacement.  If
these techs disconnect it there should be some kind of log for that and they
replace the *whole* black box.  They don't open it up.  One of the compaints
of tank mechs for the M1Ax series MBTs is that too much is electronic and in
"black box format."  Nothing is top secret (except the composition and
structure of the DU armor, but i digress), but if, for example, something in
the fire control system breaks, the whole lil fire control "black box" is
pulled out (it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it).
They don't work on the electronic subsystems but ship them to a central
location.

> Also keeping a "Chatter Box" circuit a *secret* would not even be possible.
> 1. Some military personnel would have some knowledge of CB Black Boxes

mmm... no.  They do the same thing that techs do.  It's more than possible to
open up a black box.  Doing so just melts the SDG chip and it's control chip
(by which it measures its mutations).  There would well be some members of the
General Staff (and others w/ a Need to Know) who would know, but very few
others.  Everyone who tries only finds burned and melted chips (and learn they
need to buy a new transponder system and maybe face fine/imprisonment).

> 2. A competent commo operator could tell the that comm channels 12a and 17c
> are in use, but by anyone on board. During those long jump space times the
> comm tech(s) could trace the down the *unknown* user of comm channels.
> After that the knowledge starts getting spread around.

So what?  Everyone knows that the black box will have unimpeded access to
commo.  Noone knows what's inside the black box.  Every one that's opened up
has two pieces of slag amidst the electronic connections and maybe the tamper
circuit (though i'd have the tamper get burned, too).  How do either of those
two points indicate theirs a semi-AI-lifeform in the black box?  They don't.

<snip>
> Ok then who tells the CB BB its new ship's ID then surely not the human
> necessary techs on the *breeding* farm then they ship it where needled talk
> about a logistics nightmare.

Noone.  Their transponder breaks.  They put in a new black box.  This isn't
complicated at all.  Some lowly spacehand is probably doing the installation
too (supervised most likely, w/ a superior checking it).  It should be pretty
simple to know if your transponder is operating or not.

<snip>
> The tech(s) don't have to know squat about what's inside it would help but
> it would not be needed.
 
> Assumption 1: The CB circuit is less powerful than a average ships computer.
> Assumption 2: The CB circuit is only *directly* tied into the commo system.

It's tied to the computer too.  Unimpeded access to both the communications
system and main computers&databanks.  Any break in these fires the tamper
circuit, which melts the sensitive chips (if not the tamper, as well), as does
any breech in the black box itself.

> Assumption 3: The CB circuit has no way of telling what is outside it's
> black box.

Only if the box is opened and/or access to the comm systems and computer is
disrupted.

> Assumption 4: The CB circuit has no way a knowing which other CB's are in
> comm range, the only way for it to find out is to transmit and await and
> answer.

And they're *always* either broadcasting or tightbeaming based on whatever
comm systems are available.

> Ok here it comes,
> First thing the techs do is isolate the CB from the ship's comm system most
> likely during jump.

Then the tamper circuit fires and the SDG chip is melted, as is it's control
chip.  

> Second install a *second* commo system tied directly to the CB chip's BB.
> The second commo system(phantom)is a dummy system of such quality the
> limited Intel CB can not tell it from the real thing.
> Third tie a *powerful* separate computer into the *phantom* comm system.
> Then basically put the CB BB into a *virtual reality* of the techs
> choosing, thus giving the CB BB the desired info. Since the CB BB is un
> forgeable the *new* info that the CB BB will be given out will accepted as
> *Holy Gospel*.
> 
> In the above example  the BB was not broken into just given a different
> perspective.

The moment the system is broken from the real commo, it is destroyed and won't
broadcast.  The BBs home port tells them their transponder is not broadcasting
and a new one needs to be installed.  It could always be arranged to hook the
black box through the "vr" system to the real comm system.  When u want it to
"mute" you shut it up, but it keeps operating.  Maybe the same from computers.
The point is is doable and desirable that it be allowed to "mute" but there is
no way to truly disconnect it or discover what's inside w/o destroying it,
other than espionage and corruption.  Having a limited # of
production/assembly facilities for the black boxes (if even more than one)
under heavy security and supervision solves those problems.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:17:25 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

> How many times have people found ways around supposedly secure systems?

Find a way around the Deyo transponders as presented and tell us all about it.

> Add the fact that we are talking a system in mass production and I
> think the idea that they would be tamper proof to be laughable.

Tell us how to successfully tamper with it.

> Even if you ignore the idea that we are being inconsistent with
> the background (assuming we want to move out of just talking about
> TNE) by invoke AI transponders being mass produced in

U mean the OTU? ; )

> a setting were AI are rare (they even qualify as adventure

Not strictly AI, but "semi AI."  The transponder systems are *not* AI until
the TL17 Virus program "restores" that sentience.  Just add water.  ; )

> seeds), the idea that you can stick a mass produced item and have
> it under the constant, unsupervised, control of the same people
> who want to tamper with it, and have it be reliable is just not
> realistic to me.

It is quite "realistic" (as much as the rest of Traveller is) unless u can
find a way to successfully tamper other than an espionage run into Research
Station Omicron.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:27:53 -0500
From: "Mike Basinger" <dbasinge@cviog.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #859

My point exactly. GURPS is a fine system, but in some worlds it get pretty
expensive. I'm not asking for all the psionic rules, just a par down version
to run a campaign with. If the
campaign got psionic heavy I would be glad to purchase GURPS Psionics.

Mike


>
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:59:19 -0700
> From: dberry@hooked.net
> Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
>
> At 03:27 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called of
> >all things "GURPS: Psionics".
>
> Yes, but..
>
> I've collect GURPS books for years, so I already have all the books
> mentioned, along with a few (dozen) others.  Traveller/Illuminati anyone?
>
> For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
> GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
> supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.
> - --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:45:14 -0500
From: warlock@imagin.net
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding (Long)

From the boarders' point of view, multiple entry points
should be used if the manpower is available. Always try to
outnumber the target ship's crew. As for boarding weapons,
I prefer frag grenades from multi-round grenade launchers.
Admittedly, this will damage the corridors and some 
equipment between decks but such damage is more easily 
repairable than characters.

From the defender's point of view, I'd reduce atmospheric
pressure throughout most of the ship to a Thin/Very Thin
level to minimize the effects of decompression and concussive
effects of any explosives, then close/lock all doors/iris
valves, etc. The best time to do such a thing is before power
is lost. Of course, a few claymores linked to doors/valves
and set to go off when the door/valve is forced open is a
nice touch. ;-) Keep in mind that the attackers will need
to secure their rear by confirming nothing is lurking
behind every door they pass. Of course, this can be done
simply by spraying a fast drying epoxy on each door
and surrounding door frame.

If the attacker is dumb enough to link ships, the defender
may want to consider doing whatever it takes to slow down
the boarding party(ies) within the defending ship, then
exit the defending ship and carry an attack to the outside
of the boarders' ship.

The best thing for an attacker to do is to stamd off with his
ship and approach the defending ship in small craft. The small
craft gets everyone to the target at the same time and
provides some protection from small arms fire. Two or more
teams should force entry some distance apart with the #1
target being Engineering. Another one to two teams should
stay outside to guard against the defender sneaking outside
for a counterattack and to act as reinforcements or a rear
guard in case things get a little too hot inside.

IMO, if the defender can take the fight to the attacker, the
defender has a chance. If not, well...static defenses are
pretty useless against tech.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:49:41 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100) 

> On 09/30/98 at 09:48 AM,  Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> said:
> 
> >The problem with them being singularities is that the ship that
> >'owns' the wedges can use sensors through them because they now the
> >exact geometry and gradient of them. For this to be at all useful the
> >light coming through the wedges can't be slowed up significantly.
> >This doesn't stop more powerful fields being used in the reactors,
> >though.
> 
> Through the wedge?  Really?  I thought a couple of tactical
> maneuvers in the books depended on the inability to sense anything
> through the wedge.

From what I've read, it bends xrays due to the intense and changing gravity 
gradient in the wedge.  The onboard computer, knowing how the wedge is raised 
and its gradient, can descramble sensor readings.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:38:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David E. Brooks Jr" <dbj@iglou.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #859

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Mike Basinger wrote:

> My point exactly. GURPS is a fine system, but in some worlds it get
> pretty expensive. I'm not asking for all the psionic rules, just a
> par down version to run a campaign with. If the campaign got psionic
> heavy I would be glad to purchase GURPS Psionics.

The GURPS Basic Set has a short section (pp. 165-176) on psionics that
should be quite adequate for GURPS Traveller.  Keep in mind that GURPS 
Traveller places limitations on the default GURPS rules in order to
keep with the flavor of earlier Traveller games.

- -- Dave

- --
David E. Brooks Jr
  dbj@iglou.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:42:08 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: GURPS Trav deckplans

Ok, I gatta gripe. Started playing through the ship design section of GT
today. The sequence itself is a lot like CT and a pencil, paper and
calculator CAN work (I can't wait for Andy Akins to get his copy
though....). The problem comes when trying to translate the numbers into a
deck plan format. According to the "Creating Deckplans" side bar a 'space'
from the design system equals 4 hexes. Ok, but when you look at the bridge
discription (in the Starship Operations section) they state that a Basic
Bridge (1 space/4 'yards') contains 5 workstations and a Command Bridge (2
spaces/8'yards') contains 10. Concidering that a hex is equivalant to 1 yard
I find this awfully cramped.

It appears, if you look at the deckplans printed in the book, that the
designers felt this way as well. Both the type S and Freetrader are listed
as having a Basic Bridge, both show TWO workstations and both take up
conciderably more than 4 hexes.

Of course I may be reading something wrong. One thought was that the bridge
module needs to be multiplied by the number of stations installed ( ie a
WORK STATION equals 1 bridge module, up to 5 for Basic or up to 10 for
Command) but then why don't they state it that way?

If anyone sees something I didn't, please let me know since I'm working on a
conversion and deck plans for an Imperiallines Frontier Transport for GT and
would like to correct this.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 23:54:26 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: TNE Combat

Hey,

A while back we were discussing TNE combat, in particular the
problem that some of us preceived in how hard it is to "stop"
somebody with a single shot.  Not kill, just stop them in their
tracks.  Anyway, I was reading through TNE again while waiting out
Georges this weekend and noticed a paragraph I seem to have missed.

Under Wound Effects on Inititive on p264 it says a slight wound
reduces Inititive by 1, by 3 when seriously wounded, and by 5 when
critically wounded.  Since most PC's are going to have inititives of
3 (or so) a serious wound would effectively stop them (no actions)
even if it doesn't drop them.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:17:02 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When I was at Ft. Benning, an USAF type explained the joys of hooking such
a system up to an AC-130 Spectre.

Using a Mk19 AGL would make sense, but I was thinking of the advantage of
having a nearly soldi line of tracers reaching the enemy position.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The whole idea of a heavy transport plane full of gun turrets being mad
at me would be enough in and of itself, thank you.

However, considering that Spectre may get shot at itself - another maxim
of combat: Tracers work both ways. Spectre may be able to make
a solid wall of righteous anger from on high against a known enemy
position, but I'll bet she doesn't dodge all that well.

Or is are Spectre operations restricted to low-threat environments?

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:40:10 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

Gary (TravelrTNE) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Assumption 4: The CB circuit has no way a knowing which other CB's are in
> comm range, the only way for it to find out is to transmit and await and
> answer.

And they're *always* either broadcasting or tightbeaming based on whatever
comm systems are available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds like all I need to do to shut off my transponder is turn off all
commo systems except my lasercomm and point that at nothing.

If I want to look inside the black box, I scan it with a high-grade
densitometer or higher-tech gear. By TL13 or so, there should be
gear available that will make that box effectively invisible.

Gary again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The moment the system is broken from the real commo, it is destroyed and won't broadcast.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Unless IYTU these Black Boxes are really, really cheap, this will not
work. People will have to replace their black boxes all the time - every
time the computer on their spacecraft reboots, every time they take
minor damage in space combat, every time they need to maintain
the communications array. Even a blown fuse will melt the Black Box.

If any of these things don't cause the Black Box to melt, then the
box can be spoofed - because the momentary loss of link caused
by any of these can be simulated (faked) and used to switch the
BB's inputs to a faker box and the BB's outputs to nowhere.


Walt Smith

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:37:00 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:59:19 -0700, dberry@hooked.net

>At 03:27 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called of
>>all things "GURPS: Psionics".

>I've collect GURPS books for years, so I already have all the books
>mentioned, along with a few (dozen) others.  Traveller/Illuminati anyone?
>
>For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
>GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
>supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.

Anyone who tells you that is mistaken.  For example, I don't have
GURPS psionics and have had no problem running GURPS Traveller.
I was doing it before GURPS Compendium ever came out.  I did
use Space but could have gotten by without it.  These things
are useful but hardly required.  All you really need is Basic
and you could probably even squeek by with GURPS Lite if you want
to give it a shot.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:22:03 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

Re this anti-sniper business, there are a variety of systems that have
been trialled (and employed) by IFOR/SFOR in Bosnia, that have employed a
variety of sensor technologies including triangulation by sound/shock-wave
ranging/direction finding (sort-of similar to the technolgy that is used
in some hi-tech marksmanship training ranges - the one that I am familiar
with is the Australian Super-Dart system, but I am sure that there are
others) and radar.  These are fairly compact systems, and have been used
in both a vehicle mounted role (anything from hummers, APCs, MBTs and
civvie cargo vehicles), as well as point/installation security devices.  I
can't recall any direct references to them, but have a look through some
back issues of JDW, IDR, MilTech or have a look in the most recent
edition of Jane's Security and Counter-Insurgency Equipment.

On the AC-130, it is most definitely only usable in a benign air
environment, be this from either a GBAD or air-based threat.  Whilst the
more recent versions have a fairly full platform protection suite (RWR,
laser detectors, chaff and flare dispensers), they are really intended for
use in an environment where they shoot at people who can't shoot back.  My
understanding is that they are not _really_ liked by the USAF hierarchy
(as indeed, is all of the capabilities contained in USAF SOC), because
they are seen as peripheral to _real_ USAF missions (global reach and
air/space superiority), and also because they are mainly emplouyed in
support of Army SOF missions.  Mind you, given that the current CJCS was
formerly commander USSOCOM, SO/LIC has a higher profile in the US DOD than
at any time since the Reagan years and the passage of the
Goldwater-Nichols Act.

BFN

Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov) 

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:31:34 +0400
From: Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:48:02 -0400, ringrose@ascent.com
> 
> 
>   On 09/29/98 at 10:37 AM,  Andy Long <andyl@icluae.co.ae> said:
> 
>   >> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the
singularity
>   >> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether
light
>   >> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really
matter
>   >> from the light's frame of reference, does it?
> 
>   >>From the light's point of view, it takes infinite time...<snip>...
> 
> Actually, moving clocks run slow as you approach lightspeed.  So from
> the light's point of view, the time is zero. :>
> 

Doh! Confused! always stick with your first answer (first law of trivial
pursuit). I actually wrote it as zero, but then realised that there are
two uses of Tau a normal and an inverse. I KNEW that length shrinks, and
(brainstorm) thought that must mean that time grows. Of course, it's
MASS that goes to infinity using the inverse Tau.

Please see my earlier apology to Eris while I remove my gripping hand
from my mouth as well.

Andy

================================================================
smtp Email:			andyl@icluae.co.ae OR
						andylong@emirates.net.ae
x400 Email:			c=ae;a=emdan;p=icl;ou1=abu0101;
						s=Long;i=AG;
						o=International
Computers Ltd;
A.G. Long, c/o ICL	Phone:	+971 (2) 335200/338066
PO Box 7237			Fax:	+971 (2) 338724
Abu Dhabi
United Arab Emirates
================================================================

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #860
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 861



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: MT Hand-to-Hand
Re: "PF Sloan" fleet escort
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: GURPS Trav deckplans
Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding
TML worked for me
Re: TNE Combat
Re: firearm safety and technology
RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: TNE Combat
Re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: 1,000,000 colonists
Re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Re: knife fights
Re: Rocketry 100
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #827
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:54:15 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand

>From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
>Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand
...
>Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
>small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
>This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
>round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".
...
>BTW, one of the old White Dwarf issues had CT stats for this thing as
>part of an article on weapons for Traveller. I'll hunt 'em up and post
>them tonight if anyone is interested.

  IIRC, there was also a Space Gamer issue with a Trav gadgets article.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:14:33 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: "PF Sloan" fleet escort

>From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu>
>Subject: [GT] "PF Sloan" fleet escort
>
>This is a prototype GURPS Traveller conversion of the classic "PF Sloan"-
>class fleet escort from "Supplement 9: Fighting Ships", probably originally
>designed by Tim Brown.  

  Weren't the deck plans for this class in the first Challenge mag?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:18:01 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

>>The "secret" could be based on something like quantum transitions, and
>>theoretically impossible to duplicate or eavesdrop on.
>
>Not true.  To decrypt the signal both sender and reciever must 'know the
>secret.'  If the sender used a Hysenberg (do not know the spelling)
>randomizer then only the sender would know the 'secret'.  Both sender and
>reciever must have a key to work from but a public and a private key system
>could be used like in PGP but even that can be broken.  The simple fact is
>that anything concieved by man can be bested by man.

Please explain why my statement is "not true". I put the "theoretically" in
to sidestep cases like time travel or Einstein's hidden variables.

What is not true, however, is that both sender and receiver must "know the
secret". In public key cryptography the 'secret' for encryption and
decryption are different; knowing one is of no use in determining the other.

The entire point of using non-reproducible methods for generating secrets
is exactly so that only the sender knows it. The secret for *decoding* the
message can be broadcast freely.

Please inform me of how PGP can "be broken". I suspect Phil Zimmerman, RSA
Data Securities, and the NSA would love to know as well.

I'm not sure how to respond to your claim that "anything concieved by man
can be bested by man". People have been conceiving of perpetual motion
machines for centuries, yet no one has even been able to meet this concept,
let alone "best" it. If someone comes up with an encryption method that
takes, say, twice the lifetime of the universe to decode through brute
force would you say "oh yeah, well I can conceive of one that takes *ten
times* the lifetime of the universe to decode"? At some point the gains
made is not worth the effort expended.

The point of encryption is to make it infeasible to compromise a secret
message sent through public channels. The fact that there are other ways of
compromising messages, like intercepting it before it is encrypted or
corrupting the receiver, does not make cryptography less useful or "broken".
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 03:18:19 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav deckplans

Michael D. Peters wrote:

> Ok, I gatta gripe. Started playing through the ship design section of GT
> today. The sequence itself is a lot like CT and a pencil, paper and
> calculator CAN work (I can't wait for Andy Akins to get his copy
> though....). The problem comes when trying to translate the numbers into a
> deck plan format. According to the "Creating Deckplans" side bar a 'space'
> from the design system equals 4 hexes. Ok, but when you look at the bridge
> discription (in the Starship Operations section) they state that a Basic
> Bridge (1 space/4 'yards') contains 5 workstations and a Command Bridge (2
> spaces/8'yards') contains 10. Concidering that a hex is equivalant to 1 yard
> I find this awfully cramped.

I don't know about that.  The last two days, I've been eye-balling the "T"
public tranportation in Boston.  Subways and Trolleys.  By my estimation,
1 displacement ton/space/4hex can fit 10-12 people. shoulder-to-shoulder.
6 comfortably (without workstations), 3 with large workstations.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:21:43 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - boarding

>Anyone got another boarding scenario?
>
>Jo
>

Well, I had a boarding scenario ready for my players that they never got
around to, so I suppose I can spill the beans.

A planetary defense force captured a suspected smuggler which put up some
resistance. The crew vowed to never surrender and claimed their ship was
full of booby traps. After destroying the maneuvering drive, the defense
ship used some precision laser shots to destroy the sensors,
communications, weapon turrets, and hole the fuel tanks. A launch with some
engineers welded all hatches shut and gave the ship enough of a spin to
force all the fuel out of the tanks. Then they towed the smuggler's ship
into a solar orbit; thermal equilibrium is estimated 120 degrees C.

After convicting the smuggler crew in absentia of murder (some engineers
were killed by a missile hit) and registering the ship as salvage, the
defense force decided that 5 years should be enough to calm the crew down;
especially since power to weaponry, life support, and cold berths would
have been gone within a month.

Unexpectedly, 2 years after the boarding, an expeditionary ship from the
expanding Third Imperium jumps in system and, after refuelling, detects the
derelict ship. The derelict does not respond to radio. Rather than inform
the main inhabited system, now on the far side of the sun, our heroes
decide to investigate it themselves...
- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 03:43:09 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: TML worked for me

TML seemed to work fine for me, despite everyone else's problems.

I just thought that the nmber of postings was dropping.

Whoever is running the show (Rob I guess?) is
"getting it done" from my end.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:44:07 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

Ahh but here is a problem.  With apinch of salt:)
Suppose (as most of the characters are) that yours is a RCES character.
Roll over Homo-Sovieticus, step aside the Uber-man, stand up the
reformation coalition man! He wears the Body Suit, a weightless garment (He
may ignore the weight of the garment - unlike other mortals wearing BW)  He
may pull a tab and for SIXTY combat rounds (longer than all normal fights)
is immune to all wound and initiative effects.  So unless you kill him, he
will keep on coming.  And if this is not bad enough, he can partially
mortgage his future by taking extra shots if he needs to.  One use of these
drugs has no side-effects.  He suffers NO initiative penalties because of
its *magical* construction, unlike crappy TL15 BW body suits....  One can
only wonder what effect such a device was thought to have on game balance.
(BTW I think that otherwise the RCEG is fantastic)
Cheers

At 23:54 29/09/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey,
>
>A while back we were discussing TNE combat, in particular the
>problem that some of us preceived in how hard it is to "stop"
>somebody with a single shot.  Not kill, just stop them in their
>tracks.  Anyway, I was reading through TNE again while waiting out
>Georges this weekend and noticed a paragraph I seem to have missed.
>
>Under Wound Effects on Inititive on p264 it says a slight wound
>reduces Inititive by 1, by 3 when seriously wounded, and by 5 when
>critically wounded.  Since most PC's are going to have inititives of
>3 (or so) a serious wound would effectively stop them (no actions)
>even if it doesn't drop them.
>
>Eris
>
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:55:39 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

At 15:53 29/09/98 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Rupert Boleyn writes:
>> Ob Trav: Has anyone ever noticed how peeved players get when they land on a
>> high Law Level world and find that every shady character but them has a
>> gun? 
>
>You mean your PCs give up their guns just because it's a high law level
world?
>Obviously they aren't truly shady characters (truly talented shady characters
>smuggle their guns onto the world, along with enough extra guns to make a
tidy
>profit selling them to the local shady characters).  Seriously, in high law
>level worlds where there is actually enough enforcement to prevent PCs from
>getting guns there's probably also enough enforcement that a significant
>fraction of the shady characters won't have guns either.

Yes but there's the interesting problem of getting guns once you're though
customs and on the other side. IMTU (and most of my other SF games)
starport and customs enforcement tend to be run by the interstellar
governments, and so is often much tougher than dirtside policing (and much
fairer, too). The result is that getting guns into a high law world is
usually rather harder than getting them on-planet. This can lead to fun
situations where the PCs get to all sorts of heavily armed people who know
that they are rich and have no guns - otherwise they wouldn't be in the
market for weapons, right?

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:03:57 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

At 20:13 29/09/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:

>Through the wedge?  Really?  I thought a couple of tactical
>maneuvers in the books depended on the inability to sense anything
>through the wedge.

In _Honor Among Enemies_ Weber explictly states that a ship can see through
its own wedges, but nobody can see through a wedge that belongs to someone
else, because you don't know it's _exact_ geometry and strength, gradient,
etc.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:13:33 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 22:17 29/09/98 EDT, TravelrTNE wrote:
>"Sinbad Sam" wrote:

>> 2. A competent commo operator could tell the that comm channels 12a and 17c
>> are in use, but by anyone on board. During those long jump space times the
>> comm tech(s) could trace the down the *unknown* user of comm channels.
>> After that the knowledge starts getting spread around.
>
>So what?  Everyone knows that the black box will have unimpeded access to
>commo.  Noone knows what's inside the black box.  Every one that's opened up
>has two pieces of slag amidst the electronic connections and maybe the tamper
>circuit (though i'd have the tamper get burned, too).  How do either of those
>two points indicate theirs a semi-AI-lifeform in the black box?  They don't.

I'd slag the whole thing so that nobody would know which bit was the top
secret bit and/or the anti-tamper device and circuitry.

>> Second install a *second* commo system tied directly to the CB chip's BB.
>> The second commo system(phantom)is a dummy system of such quality the
>> limited Intel CB can not tell it from the real thing.
>> Third tie a *powerful* separate computer into the *phantom* comm system.
>> Then basically put the CB BB into a *virtual reality* of the techs
>> choosing, thus giving the CB BB the desired info. Since the CB BB is un
>> forgeable the *new* info that the CB BB will be given out will accepted as
>> *Holy Gospel*.
>> 
>> In the above example  the BB was not broken into just given a different
>> perspective.

The problem with this is that you can't forge the transponder bable that
the other ships that 'exist' in your VR should be giving your transponder,
with the result that when you hook it back up it will tell everybody's
transponders that it met some fake transponders (at best, at worst it might
realise that it was being fed crap). Even if you do fool it sooner or later
it will come across some fact that will contradict what you fed it, and
then it will come across to other transponders as having been screwed with.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:24:24 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

At 16:22 30/09/98 +1000, JEFFREY MALONE wrote:

>On the AC-130, it is most definitely only usable in a benign air
>environment, be this from either a GBAD or air-based threat.  Whilst the
>more recent versions have a fairly full platform protection suite (RWR,
>laser detectors, chaff and flare dispensers), they are really intended for
>use in an environment where they shoot at people who can't shoot back.  My
>understanding is that they are not _really_ liked by the USAF hierarchy
>(as indeed, is all of the capabilities contained in USAF SOC), because
>they are seen as peripheral to _real_ USAF missions (global reach and
>air/space superiority), and also because they are mainly emplouyed in
>support of Army SOF missions.  Mind you, given that the current CJCS was
>formerly commander USSOCOM, SO/LIC has a higher profile in the US DOD than
>at any time since the Reagan years and the passage of the
>Goldwater-Nichols Act.

One of the (very few) good things about being in the Soviet Army must have
been that you owned the air force (Frontal Aviation, anyway), and that your
bosses never lost sight of the basic rule of land warfare - everything is
there to support the grunts (however low their status compared to tanks).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:57:59 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

At 13:05 29/09/98 -0400, chauncey smith wrote:

>CCG's is a good way to get ppl hooked on the concept of gaming. Do you
>honestly remeber those first games?  The hours of charater creation and the
>boredom? and the book passing? Remember We where younger then and didn't
>have the money to buy multicopies of the same book. Cards are cheap and
>after cards you may find a role-playing game in that genra.. and a wargame.
>I hate to bring this up but look at AEG's Legand of the Five rings game...
>it started as a card game.

We didn't get bored when others were making up characters - we "helped"
them with "good" and "useful" suggestions as to how to make their PC.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:19:28 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: TNE Combat

At 23:54 29/09/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>Hey,
>
>A while back we were discussing TNE combat, in particular the
>problem that some of us preceived in how hard it is to "stop"
>somebody with a single shot.  Not kill, just stop them in their
>tracks.  Anyway, I was reading through TNE again while waiting out
>Georges this weekend and noticed a paragraph I seem to have missed.
>
>Under Wound Effects on Inititive on p264 it says a slight wound
>reduces Inititive by 1, by 3 when seriously wounded, and by 5 when
>critically wounded.  Since most PC's are going to have inititives of
>3 (or so) a serious wound would effectively stop them (no actions)
>even if it doesn't drop them.

That's one of the reasons I've never found it that hard to put PCs out of
fights. Another is the knockdown rule - if you take your AGL or more of
damage in one round you get knocked down, and have to make a panic check.
That coupled with stunning for head shots give a reasonable chance for a
one shot KO, IMO. Using TW:2K's more aggresive quick kill damge rule helps,
too.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:46:45 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Smart, David J (David) wrote:
> Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
> small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
> This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
> round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".
> 

<quote source=taxi driver>
Are you talking to me?
Are _you_ talking to _me_?
</quote>

B-) 

- --
Mikko Parviainen
 IMTU tc+ tm++ tn+ ru+ ge++ 3i+ jt-- jd++ pi au st- ls kk hi++ dr++ as+
va+ so- zh+ da++ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:34:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

In mail you write:

> Thank muchly, on another note you say
>>
>>You are confusing fission and fusion reactors. Fusion reactors *don't*
>>"go critical". They only produce power because you are *forcing* the
>>reaction to take place (by supplying enough heat & pressure). 
>>
>>So if something goes wrong, the reactor will shut down. Extra neutrons
>>or gammas aren't going to affect the reaction much.
>>
>>-- 
> Surely they put out more heat than they need or what would be the
> point....confused.

Sure. They put out more energy. But that doesn't increase the reaction
rate a lot. It goes up *slowly* as the temp increases. Plus, the higher
temp makes the magnetic bottle "leak" more, thus tending to reduce the
pressure. And if you kill the magnetic field, the *pressure* goes
away and the reaction *stops*. 

Runaway reactions aren't *possible* in a fusion reactor. 

Hydrogen bombs work by using a fission bomb to heat and compress the
material you are going to fuse. It's a "burst" reaction. Anything that
doesn't fuse during the brief pulse of heat and pressure won't fuse.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:40:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 colonists

In mail you write:

>>    Does anyone know how much B5 displaces? I know it can hold 
>> 250,000.

> 5million tons

Sorry, wrong answer. While the intro *did* say 5 million tons, it was
pointed out to Strazinsky that given the *size* of B5, the *air* in it
weighs more than that!

He tried to claim that the "5 million tons" was just the outer hull,
but nobody bought it.

You have to realize that B5 is *kilometers* long. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:53:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

In mail you write:

> There was also a hi-tech version, called the "Power Holster", mentioned
> in the Death World trilogy novels. It would flip a weapon the size of
> a small 9mm (!) from the forearm into the hand, with enough force to rip
> through regular cloth, faster than the eye could blink.
>
> Required a lot of training and some hefty muscle on the arm (the
> wearer was from a standard atmosphere, heavy grav world where
> *everything* tries to kill you) but it was standard to remove the
> weapon's trigger guard. This allowed the weapon to fire as soon as it
> hit the hand just by crooking the trigger finger back when the holster
> was activated. Like I said, it required a *LOT* of training; the
> character started training when he was 7 years old! Given that the
> character could hit a sparrow in flight without a thought (can you 
> say "Handgun-6"?), this thing is like having a lightning bolt in
> your finger tip. Talk about "point and shoot".

Jason dinAlt managed to learn to use a power holster as an adult (in
the first book). It was a *painful* experience.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:56:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

In mail you write:

> If you look at most office buildings, you will find between the
> "ceiling" and ceiling many things like cabling, ductwork, support
> structures and piping.  This easily is 2+ feet above the 8 ft
> "ceiling."  I can't remember which book I read it in (but I think it
> was the Starship Operating Manual) that the total vertical size of a
> deck is not available for wandering around in, but is partly taken up
> by the stuff I mentioned above.  Currrent wet-navy decks are somewhat
> shorter than Traveller decks, but they also run cabling, piping, etc.
> above normal head height but below the next deck up.

I wish I could have gotten permission to take some photos in the
hallway at the plant I used to work in. It was about 2o feet wide, and
the ceiling was at least that high, And everything above the 8 or 9
foot level was layer after layer of pipes, ductwork, and cable
conduits. 

It was a great example. <sigh>

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:00:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

In mail you write:

> My take, and I have always tended to 'convert' the metric measurements for
> some players, has been to concider a meter roughly equal to a yard (GT does
> this). deck sizing then it 3 meters floor to floor or 3 yards. I then
> explain that the 'ceiling' is actually 2 to 3 feet lower or 6 - 7 feet high,
> the extra space being filled with conduit and pwer feeds, air recycler
> ductwork. water and sewage plumbing etc. In higher clas ships this is
> further covered by a drop ceiling arrangement. On the average Freetrader the
> drop ceil has usually been tossed out except in living quarters and common
> areas. I've ofter thought of including a 'tween decks plan to deck plans,
> ever since a PC used a "ventalation duct" to slip between cabins, I've just
> never been that ambitious, I've also started explaining that the ducts are
> usually too convoluted for a person to manuver through for more than a
> couple of feet.

Real world, most ductwork is too *small* to climb thru. In spacecraft,
it'll have to have automatic doors whereever it passes thru a pressure
wall. 

And I'm told that the ductwork on Navy ships and in major underground
installations any ducts big enough to crawl thru have "blades" or
"knives" mounted all over the place to prevent it. They hardly affect
airflow, but it'd take *hours* to cut them all away in any useful
length of ducting.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:05:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

In mail you write:

> it against your available volume for the room.  As for 8' ceilings, while
> that's reasonably normal for buildings, vehicles have a tendency to be more
> cramped than that.

On the other hand, in any large ship, there *is* something to be said
for corridors big enough to move medium large chunks of equipment thru.
It makes repairs and refits easier. Remember, the alternative is
cutting away layer after layer of deck and bulkhead. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:52:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: knife fights

In mail you write:

>     Basic rule of thumb taught to folks defending against a knife.  "You
> will get cut."  
> You may have some input on to when and where...

Sort of like the advice I got about defending against a dog attack. For
medium size dogs, you basicly "feed" them your arm. That gets the arm
shredded some, but also means that their mouth is full. You can then
use the arm as a lever.

Against the *big* dogs, you try to keep them from biting anything
important. Like your neck...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:57:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> You are confusing fission and fusion reactors. Fusion reactors *don't*
> "go critical". They only produce power because you are *forcing* the
> reaction to take place (by supplying enough heat & pressure). 
>
> So if something goes wrong, the reactor will shut down. Extra neutrons
> or gammas aren't going to affect the reaction much.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Finally read an Honor Harrington book. Loved the space opera in
> _On Basilisk Station_, kinda did a "huh?" when the fusion reactor
> went critical on _Fearless_ and killed a bunch of people.

I'm still not real fond of this, but I've kind of justified it on the
basis that when they fail during battle you get essentially the current
(probably *peak*) output (multiple gigawatts or even terawatts or more)
for one second released. In other words, a 10 terawatt plant would dump
10 terajoules in the form of plasma. That's not even *close* to a
nuclear bomb, but it's nothing to sneeze at.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:07:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #827

In mail you write:

>>3. Detonation laser missiles are apparently available at TL 8. What
>>constitutes 'short range' ?
>
> For a TL-8 missile, probably hundreds of km (up to a few thousand for 
> higher TL versions.) 
>
> of course, I would personally move det-lasers to TL9, Edward Teller
> notwithstanding...

Well, this may be yet another case of needing a higher TL to get
something working for the first time than to duplicate something that
already works.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:16:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In mail you write:

> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
> from the light's frame of reference, does it?

From a photon's frame of reference *everything* happens at once. Time
does not exist. 

The singularity at the center of a black hole is generaly a
mathematical *point*. Zero size. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:07:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In mail you write:

> Maybe we could invoke the same technology behind the gravitic bands
> Weber uses to provide thrust/shield the ships.  His description of
> stuff (including lasers) striking one of these bands implies (to me)
> that they don't *block* the hits, they slow it down (somehow) so
> that the energy dissipates before the missile/beam/particles get
> through to the hull.

What he's saying is that the gravity is so intense that it bends light
passing thru. Which is realistic. Since the enemy doesn't know the
exact field strength and configuration, they can't compensate for the
distortion. So the beams get deflected or defocused. Sort of like
trying to look at the bottom of a pond or stream with lots of ripples. 

The ship *generating* the bands knows the details, so they *can*
compensate. And I bet that it's common for even *merchant* vessels to
continually vary the setup by a little bit according to a random
pattern. Easy to set up, hard to do anything about. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #861
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 862



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Official vs. alternate
Thursday Islander is now Online!
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)
re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Official vs. alternate
Climing around in ductwork
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:19:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 29 Sep 98 00:21:13 -0500, "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
> <Snip>
>> 
>> How much time does take for light to reach and cross the singularity
>> of a black hole, from the light's frame of reference?  Whether light
>> slows down or the distance travelled increases doesn't really matter
>> from the light's frame of reference, does it?
>> 
>> 
>> Eris
>> - -- 
>
> From the light's point of view, it takes infinite time - it always takes
> infinite time at C. If you plug 'V=C' into the Tau equations, then the
> equation simplifies to 0.
>
> T=sqrt(1/(1-v^2/c^2)) 
> => T=sqrt(1/(1-C^2/C^2)), 
> => T=sqrt( 1/(1-1) ) 
> => T=sqrt( 1/0 )
> => T=Infinity

You've got the formula wrong. At c, tau = *zero*. 

	tau = sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2))

Therefore:

	tau = sqrt(1-(c^2/c^2))
	tau = sqrt(1-(1))
	tau = sqrt(1-1)
	tau = sqrt(0)
	tau = zero

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:22:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In mail you write:

> Weber's ships can still "see" through their wedges.  Therefore,
> "anything entering that area basically disappears" is inaccurate.
> Anything physical which hits the wedge gets shredded by the tidal
> forces, and the light which hits the wedge gets bent so thoroughly
> that it is essentially impossible to target the ship.  The ship
> generating the wedge knows the exact strength and power of its wedge,
> so it can correct and still see out... but any ship trying to shoot in
> cannot get a good enough reading off of the wedge to do the same
> thing.
>
> This corresponds to the descriptions Weber has given in the books, I
> think.
>
> However... if the ship generating the wedge can correct for the wedge,
> why can't it shoot energy weapons _OUT_ through the wedge?

Because compensating sensor reading merely requires computer
processing. Compensating laser/graser beams would require something
that can change their direction/focus dynamicly. That's a *much* taller
order.

> His sidewall don't make much sense.  How can a more powerful
> laser/graser break through a gravity-generated sidewall more easily?
> It's still gravity...  unless the sidewall generators require energy
> corresponding to the energy they're trying to affect and when hit with
> too much will just pack up and go home.

Sidewalls are much *weaker*. Enough so that they can't completely
defocus a beam that's powerful enough. Part of the reason they are
weaker (I'd think) is that they *can't* be allowed create thrust the
way the planes of the impeller wedge do. 
 
> Weber's fusion plant is magnetically contained (he keeps referring to
> the stability of the "magnetic bottle") and high energy.  If the
> magnetic bottle goes away, the fusion reaction will stop, but the
> extremely high energ plasma contained by the magnetic bottle is still
> there and has to go _somewhere_.  Hence, fusion plants can go boom.

But unless those plants are unreasonably powerful, the "boom" should be
equivalent to less than one seconds output. From the way Weber
describes a failure, it seems pretty obvious that he thinks they *do*
act like a big fusion bomb. 

> Another way of looking at it is if you take a high-temperature working
> furnace and suddenly pull off one of its walls, heat and flame will
> come rolling out the hole.  Now increase the temperature and pressure
> inside to something approaching the sun.

Actually, the temperatures in a fusion reactor are far *higher* than in
the sun. That's so that we can get away with using pressures we can
handle. The sun's core (which is where the fusion reactions occur) is
at far higher pressure than we can reach. Higher than any tech is
likely to be able to *sustain*. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 04:17:56 PDT
From: "Andrew Hewson" <loup_wolf@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

[snip]
>>I think you've missed a few other countries there - like Australia,
>>New Zealand, India, South Africa, (I think China is right hand drive
>>too?)....
>
>They drive on the left in Hong Kong, but in the rest of China they
>drive on the right.

And just to 'stoke the fire' a little, an interesting fact is that the 
Left / Right driving split World wide is 50/50 in terms of population.

The fact that 50% of the world drives on the 'wrong' (right :-) side of 
the road can be blamed on Napoleon.

Which raises a question about what would happen if a particularly 
'insane' / egotistical Emperor decided that the whole measurement system 
used in the Imperium should change because he/she said so ....

assassination attempts from the weights & measures office ?

:-)

Regards
Andy				loup_wolf@hotmail.com
========================******========================
 Trolls aren't stupid !  They're thermally challenged


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:12:32 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Official vs. alternate

 
> GURPS Traveller *is* the "official" world now. Check their author want
list ...
> they've got masses of Traveller stuff there, and nary a mention of the
rebellion
> and virus. I think it is extremely likely that rebellion and virus are
dead for
> all time. Ergo, whether people like it or not, the Classic Traveller
background
> is *again* the "official world".

Funny, it SAYS "alternate timeline" in there...Hmm..either my old-timer
eyes are playing tricks on me, or I need to go watch a few Sliders episodes
to refamiliarize myself with the concept...


Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:54:37 +1000
From: "cjbrain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com>
Subject: Thursday Islander is now Online!

I didn't think I would be able to, but I did it ! I am now back on the net
and subscribing to the digest once more. I missed this. I had better get a
social life soon.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:24:44 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

At 01:17 AM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:

>The whole idea of a heavy transport plane full of gun turrets being mad
>at me would be enough in and of itself, thank you.
>
>However, considering that Spectre may get shot at itself - another maxim
>of combat: Tracers work both ways. Spectre may be able to make
>a solid wall of righteous anger from on high against a known enemy
>position, but I'll bet she doesn't dodge all that well.

Having seen a Spectre operate at Ft. Irwin, I don't think I'd want to be in
the region with my dinky little M-21.

>Or is are Spectre operations restricted to low-threat environments?

The nice thing about C-130s is their engines run cool enough that most IR
missiles have a hard time locking on to them.  Dropping flares almost
guarntees no lock.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:32:38 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

At 04:22 PM 9/30/98 +1000, you wrote:

>understanding is that they are not _really_ liked by the USAF hierarchy
>(as indeed, is all of the capabilities contained in USAF SOC), because
>they are seen as peripheral to _real_ USAF missions (global reach and
>air/space superiority), and also because they are mainly emplouyed in
>support of Army SOF missions.

<RANT>
I really wish the USAF would realizer that while F-16s make excellent
ooh-ahhs at an air show, the job is to support the ground sloggers who are
actually engaging the enemy.  Consider the A-10 Warthog.  By far the best
ground attack plane ever built.  During the Gulf war, these planes took
hundreds of hits from everthing from small arms to SAMs, and kept flying.
One plane lost an entire engine and returned to base!  Between sucking
bullets, they became the terror of the Iraqi Army.  The USAF response?
They want to get rid of the things in favor of more zoomies birds!!!  The
A-10 is the *last* dedicated attack plane in the US arsenal, everything
else is a zoomie conversion.  Grrrrrr....
</RANT>

Sortry about that, but sometimes the Air Farce really bugs me..
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' | 
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:08:44 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Walter G. Smith wrote:
> Sounds like all I need to do to shut off my transponder is turn off all
> commo systems except my lasercomm and point that at nothing.

Yep, and get shot on sight by a Naval vessel if they run across you...you pays
your money, you takes your chances.
 
> If I want to look inside the black box, I scan it with a high-grade
> densitometer or higher-tech gear. By TL13 or so, there should be
> gear available that will make that box effectively invisible.

Showing what? A mass of electronics, that's all. You can't tell by looking at
it that a Deyo chip is a living being, not a chip. You can't tell what's going
on or reverse engineer the thing unless you can isolate the compnents, which
you can't do without breaking the box open. If you _do_ successfully break
open the box, the moment you start tryig to analyze the Deyo chip, yopu're
going to come to the conclusion that something went wrong, because the chip
doesn't make sense at all. It won't, as a static piece of electronic
circuitry, because it _isn't_ a static piece of circuitry. How long is it
going to take for your reverse-engineer pirates to make _THAT_ conceptual leap?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:21:58 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> At 04:22 PM 9/30/98 +1000, you wrote:
> The USAF response?
> They want to get rid of the things in favor of more zoomies birds!!!  The
> A-10 is the *last* dedicated attack plane in the US arsenal, everything
> else is a zoomie conversion.  Grrrrrr....

Worse, they won't just let the Army just have them...Hey! Maybe you could
rivet a propeller beany to the top of the fuselage and call it a helo! That
way the Army could have 'em without that 'it's got wings so it's mine' thing
about the AF.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:23:06 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> Sortry about that, but sometimes the Air Farce really bugs me..

Doug, I had no idea you were fond of low-quality Canadian political
humour. They bug me too, I have to say...

http://www.tv.cbc.ca/airfarce/
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:27:44 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

Adapting some ideas from GURPS vehicles, I came up with a way to do the
"external grapple" used on Traveller ships such as the Gazelle and the
Lightning class. It's based on the "vehicle hardpoints" idea. Basically, a
grapple masses 0.0001 Mcr times the mass in tons it can carry, and costs
.0002 Mcr times the mass in tons. a ship can have a maximum of (Body
Surface Area x 0.015) tons of material carried this way.

I also have some thoughts on drop tanks. Basically, they are additional
hull space, with additional fuel tankage within, that can be ejected. They
would add to the volume of the ship, and to it's surface area as turrets
do. They can be armored, but are usually not armored as well as the ship,
as they are disposable and usually ejected in combat anyway; DR 100 is
usually sufficient.

The reason I bring this up is because I am trying to design a GT version of
the Gazelle Class close escort. I am running into difficulties. The ship
has a 280-ton hull, carries a 20-ton gig, and has 100-ton drop tanks.
It is supposed to do Jump-3 with the tanks, Jump-5 without, and do 3G's
with the tanks, 5 G's without. Jump fuel is the problem; a ship that does
J-5 at 300 tons (280+20 for the gig, no tanks) requires 150 spaces of jump
fuel. The Gazelle design has 100 spaces fuel internal, 100 in the drop
tanks. This means that if it drops it's tanks, it cannot do Jump 5; it only
does 3 parsecs. The reason for the drop tanks is supposed to be so it will
have the fuel to cross places like the Great Rift, albeit at a slower jump
rate. at 280 tons and streamlined, it's tough to find space for 50 extra
fuel modules. (it can't be done by unstreamlining either but that's another
story.

Any suggestions would be appreciated :)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:42:12 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

In a message dated 9/30/98 8:45:39 AM Central Daylight Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< Dropping flares almost guarantees no lock. >>

That "almost guarantees" isn't very comforting. That's why the general has
several of these Spectres... in case one gets shot down.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> I wish I could have gotten permission to take some photos in the
> hallway at the plant I used to work in. It was about 2o feet wide, and
> the ceiling was at least that high, And everything above the 8 or 9
> foot level was layer after layer of pipes, ductwork, and cable
> conduits. 

The tunnel network under the Magic Kingdom at Disney World in Orlando is
the same way. In the main cross-park tunnel, the walls are also lined with
pipes. Very impressive to see, especially if you come down from the park
and realize how MUCH there is down there right under your feet without you
seeing it.

Ben


- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:02:17 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Sounds like all I need to do to shut off my transponder is turn off all
> commo systems except my lasercomm and point that at nothing.

Yep, and get shot on sight by a Naval vessel if they run across you...you pays
your money, you takes your chances.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This was intended to show a hole in the original poster's reasoning.
If the transponder melts itself when the commo system is turned off,
you can't stop your transponder from broadcasting, right? Well,
since directional communication systems are cheap and common,
it's easy to have your ship making signals that no one else can hear.

Always-On transponders are a workable idea if, IYTU, the spacelanes
are safe to travel and you never go beyond the bounds of whatever
interstellar authority you're using as a campaign background.
It also makes space travel about as exciting as a drive down
a quiet freeway on Earth.

IMO, even if unforgable transponders are part of your campaign,
they should at least have a mute button.

Bruce again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> If I want to look inside the black box, I scan it with a high-grade
> densitometer or higher-tech gear. By TL13 or so, there should be
> gear available that will make that box effectively invisible.

Showing what? A mass of electronics, that's all. You can't tell by looking at
it that a Deyo chip is a living being, not a chip. You can't tell what's going
on or reverse engineer the thing unless you can isolate the compnents, which
you can't do without breaking the box open. If you _do_ successfully break
open the box, the moment you start tryig to analyze the Deyo chip, yopu're
going to come to the conclusion that something went wrong, because the chip
doesn't make sense at all. It won't, as a static piece of electronic
circuitry, because it _isn't_ a static piece of circuitry. How long is it
going to take for your reverse-engineer pirates to make _THAT_ conceptual leap?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'll lay you odds that by TL13-15 you'll have scanning gear that will let
you map circuit diagrams and possibly electron pathways through that
black box - unless you completely shield the box. I mean _completely_,
so completely that there aren't even any input or output feeds - which
would make the tranponder useless.

I know the chips aren't AI, but realize that for all intents and purposes
they can be treated as such - they quack, swim and preen feathers,
they are effectively a duck. Deyo chips, due to structural limitations
of the substrate they work on, can _not_ be more complicated than
an artificial silicon-based intelligence - and such things do exist in
the Traveller universe.

Eventually someone will have the right combination of technical
expertise, scientific knowledge and determination to crack the
secret of the Deyo-chip transponder. (I'd put my bets on the
Hivers or Zhodani governments to do so first, but they might sit
on the information.) Whether this knowledge is sufficient in and
of itself to get around the system is another matter - learning that
someone is using such-and-such a code is often simpler than
cracking said code.

"Hi, I'm the transponder for the patrol ship _Excelsior_. I just got
installed a week ago at Solevai  Highport, I replaced an outdated
transponder during a maintenance check. I've talked to six other
transponders since I was installed. Oh, you've never heard of any
of those ship's transponder chips? Well, they were new installs
as well, they checked out just fine. I see we are closing for boarding,
part of the routine customs checks that patrol cruisers do when
they encounter free traders in backwater systems. Nice talking to
you, transponder from free trader _Fiver's Ghost_."

What the crew of free trader _Fiver's Ghost_ sees: Patrol Cruiser
_Excelsior_ hails them to stand by for boarding. _Excelsior_
has a working transponder.

What's really going on: Corsair _Hunting Horror_ stole or otherwise
acquired a couple dozen unused transponders. They put each one
in a VR network, convinced them that they had just been installed
on a bunch of ships undergoing refit at a legitimate starport. 
The chips talk to each other, seeing each other as traffic at this
simulated starport and traffic pattern.
When the transponder that thinks it's in _Excelsior_ thinks it enters
jumpspace, it is dropped out of the VR net - while _Hunting Horror_
is in jumpspace. Enough dummy inputs are still in place so the
_Excelsior_ chip sees _Hunting Horror_ as a patrol cruiser.
As far as transponders are concerned, Patrol Cruiser _Excelsior_
just came out of jumpspace.

The fiction won't last long, but that's OK - _Hunting Horror_ has
a dozen other chips ready to drop out of the VR network. _Horror_
doesn't need to pass for weeks at a time, just sow some momentary
confusion.

All the above takes is a TL13 computer (virtual realities), a shipment
of transponders (these things need to be stocked at every A or B
starport and every Naval or Scout base, as well as every corporate,
private or government shipyard, a shipment will eventually go astray),
and a technician who used to install transponders (there will be hundreds
of thousands of people like this). The transponders in your VR net
live boring lives, seldom go anywhere and don't talk to many ships,
but that won't show up as fake - the Deyo chip in a Free Trader that
only visits low-tech worlds may go months seeing only a handful of
starships, may even spend six months grounded on some dirtball
making repairs, but that Deyo chip will still read as legitimate.

I wonder - how smart are Deyo chips? How much information are
they supposed to have access to? They are deliberately dumb,
they may only know how to say "I'm an untampered Deyo chip,
installed in a ship with this unique Imperial registration number".
Or can they rattle off every ship they've ever squawked, how long
they were in normal space in which system, etc?

I'd go with the former, if I used these things.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:09:41 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

At 10:42 AM 9/30/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 9/30/98 8:45:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
dberry@hooked.net
>writes:
>
><< Dropping flares almost guarantees no lock. >>
>
>That "almost guarantees" isn't very comforting. That's why the general has
>several of these Spectres... in case one gets shot down.

Funny, but I do recall my Drill Sergeant mentioning something about it
being a risky job...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Official vs. alternate

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Allen Shock wrote:

> Funny, it SAYS "alternate timeline" in there...Hmm..either my old-timer
> eyes are playing tricks on me, or I need to go watch a few Sliders episodes
> to refamiliarize myself with the concept...

Just be sure it isn't the second or third season...

Ben

PS: Check out my spec scripts for SLIDERS at my homepage  ;)

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:26:55 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Climing around in ductwork

  Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:00:50 PST
  From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
  Subject: Re: Deck height (Re:Traveller-digest V1998 #849)

  Real world, most ductwork is too *small* to climb thru. In spacecraft,
  it'll have to have automatic doors whereever it passes thru a pressure
  wall. 

Real world, you're not quite right.
I'll grant, you are probably right for small installations, military
installations (large ones have knives, etc. as you mentioned -- they
actually improve the airflow, I hear, by keeping dust from settling as
easily), and spacecraft (which would have pressure-tight seals).


At MIT, there are hackers (not the computer type, the practical joke
type -- the ones who do things like put police cars, complete with a
ticket ("no permit for this location") and a box of donuts, on the
great dome) who enjoy getting into places they're not supposed to be,
and finding places which don't appear on maps.  They crawl around in
ductwork reasonably often.  And these are real world buildings.

ObTrav:
Have your characters ever visited in institute for educating the
_extremely_ gifted?  The kind of place Famile Spoofalum (sp?) might
send their kids to learn the finer points of advanced physics?

I recall a game where we did.  It was complete with the screensaver of
the Energizer bunny walking across a monitor, Jumping to the next,
going on.  And a reprogrammed pizza delivery robot.


Real World, but certainly modifiable to Trav:
Then there's the building next door, which houses Genzyme.  People
started getting headaches.  They eventually investigated the ducts and
found something green growing in them.  Last I knew, they didn't
know what it was (as in, couldn't determine the zoological
classification).


	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:07:56 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

At 12:18 AM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>The "secret" could be based on something like quantum transitions, and
>>>theoretically impossible to duplicate or eavesdrop on.
>>
>>Not true.  To decrypt the signal both sender and reciever must 'know the
>>secret.'  If the sender used a Hysenberg (do not know the spelling)
>>randomizer then only the sender would know the 'secret'.  Both sender and
>>reciever must have a key to work from but a public and a private key system
>>could be used like in PGP but even that can be broken.  The simple fact is
>>that anything concieved by man can be bested by man.
>
>Please explain why my statement is "not true". I put the "theoretically" in
>to sidestep cases like time travel or Einstein's hidden variables.
>


"theoretically" has nothing to do with it.  Sender aand reciever must have a
common frame of reference to encode and decode period.  If you were to use a
true 'radomizer' to generate the key then you would have to transmit the key
to decode the message making it decodable by anyone.

>What is not true, however, is that both sender and receiver must "know the
>secret". In public key cryptography the 'secret' for encryption and
>decryption are different; knowing one is of no use in determining the other.
>
>The entire point of using non-reproducible methods for generating secrets
>is exactly so that only the sender knows it. The secret for *decoding* the
>message can be broadcast freely.
>

I don't think so.  The encoding key is transmited in the clear.  The
decoding key is kept by the creater of the coding section key.  That is IF
you are using a public key incryption scheme like PGP.  The public key is
the encrypt key only.

>Please inform me of how PGP can "be broken". I suspect Phil Zimmerman, RSA
>Data Securities, and the NSA would love to know as well.
>

PGP can and has been 'broken'.  Mr. Zimmerman has written about the
'breakability' of PGP.  It is called 'Pretty Good Privacy' after all not
'Perfect Privacy'.  Check the crypto news groups for various ways/methods .
The NSA can already break PGP it just takes time if the users are very
carefull.  If they are sloppy it gets easier with each additional message
using the same encode key.  Also the NSA has the advantage of having working
copies of the incryption software to decompile and analize for pattern
recognition.  The key would be decyphered one character at a time as 'hits'
occured.  If even a single 'clear phrase' were know the time required would
drop dramaticly and any good inteligence agency would soon learn what key
phrases to watch for in the messages of a particular group od comunication.
If a clear text copy of a message were captured then getting the key will be
almost automatic if the key is not changed.  That is why the military uses
'one use' section keys.  The reuse of codes is what broke 'Enigma' in WW2
and it was broken by brute force HUMAN number crunchers.


Note that 'breaking' one PGP section does not let you read every message
sent with PGP.  Just those sent with the same public/private ket that you
'broke'.

>I'm not sure how to respond to your claim that "anything concieved by man
>can be bested by man". People have been conceiving of perpetual motion
>machines for centuries, yet no one has even been able to meet this concept,
>let alone "best" it. If someone comes up with an encryption method that
>takes, say, twice the lifetime of the universe to decode through brute
>force would you say "oh yeah, well I can conceive of one that takes *ten
>times* the lifetime of the universe to decode"? At some point the gains
>made is not worth the effort expended.
>
>The point of encryption is to make it infeasible to compromise a secret
>message sent through public channels. The fact that there are other ways of
>compromising messages, like intercepting it before it is encrypted or
>corrupting the receiver, does not make cryptography less useful or "broken".
>--

I did not say cryptography was "broken".  It is quite posible to send
messages that can not be decoded in time to make them usefull.  This can be
done with a simple exchange code and does not require a cypher.  I said that
incryption was far from infallable in sending data secretly.  A simple
message like "run" can be hinden in normal conversation with an exchange
code like that used for baseball signals but data has to the incrypted and
unless the key is truely random and longer than the data it can be broken in
time.  Remember that the sender and reciever must have enough computer power
to run the cryptography software.  If the software is simple enough to run
on a protable and publicly available then a super main frame will break the
code in 'time'.  With 'time' being related soully to computing power and
power of the software used.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:07:59 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 10:17 PM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>"Sinbad Sam" wrote:
>
>> >Not the ship, silly goose, just the transponder.
>
>> Case 1: The "ChatterBox" chip has to have continuous communications outside
>> the ship, or it suffers communication meltdown.
>
>No, it only has to have continuous and unimpared access to the comm systems
>(using whatever frequencies are unused) and w/ the main computers and
>databanks.
>The tamper circuit fires (melting down the chips) if the black box is
>disconnected from these.  So the transponder is chattering the whole time in
>jump space, just noone else is there to hear.  The transponder doesn't have to
>*hear* conversation.  They don't chatter before their connected to a comm
>system (anymore than a person chatters endlessly in his skull- yes some people
>do that more than others<g>).
>
>> >Doubtful.  These thigns were pretty hush hush.  Maybe one central
>place/Domain
>> >(maybe Sector).  Hell, I can buy one main facility for the whole Imperium!
>> >Componets,etc from many sources, but the chip itself (assembly, breeding,
>etc)
>> >from just one place.  Robot construction facilities w/ some odd human
>> >supervision making sure everything is running. The only place people are in
>> >the loop is for the breeding, "human necessary" decisions, etc.
>> 
>> Ok how installs them in starships new and old,, robots?, no I say sentient
>> technicians with the *right* tools and skills. The direct link to the
>> communications has to be connected then tested. Also the power connections
>> have to be connected and tested.
>
>Black boxes are installed as one piece.  Something breaks in there, the whole
>thing is taken out and a whole new black box is put in as a replacement.  If
>these techs disconnect it there should be some kind of log for that and they
>replace the *whole* black box.  They don't open it up.  One of the compaints
>of tank mechs for the M1Ax series MBTs is that too much is electronic and in
>"black box format."  Nothing is top secret (except the composition and
>structure of the DU armor, but i digress), but if, for example, something in
>the fire control system breaks, the whole lil fire control "black box" is
>pulled out (it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it).
>They don't work on the electronic subsystems but ship them to a central
>location.
>
>> Also keeping a "Chatter Box" circuit a *secret* would not even be possible.
>> 1. Some military personnel would have some knowledge of CB Black Boxes
>
>mmm... no.  They do the same thing that techs do.  It's more than possible to
>open up a black box.  Doing so just melts the SDG chip and it's control chip
>(by which it measures its mutations).  There would well be some members of the
>General Staff (and others w/ a Need to Know) who would know, but very few
>others.  Everyone who tries only finds burned and melted chips (and learn they
>need to buy a new transponder system and maybe face fine/imprisonment).
>
>> 2. A competent commo operator could tell the that comm channels 12a and 17c
>> are in use, but by anyone on board. During those long jump space times the
>> comm tech(s) could trace the down the *unknown* user of comm channels.
>> After that the knowledge starts getting spread around.
>
>So what?  Everyone knows that the black box will have unimpeded access to
>commo.  Noone knows what's inside the black box.  Every one that's opened up
>has two pieces of slag amidst the electronic connections and maybe the tamper
>circuit (though i'd have the tamper get burned, too).  How do either of those
>two points indicate theirs a semi-AI-lifeform in the black box?  They don't.
>
><snip>
>> Ok then who tells the CB BB its new ship's ID then surely not the human
>> necessary techs on the *breeding* farm then they ship it where needled talk
>> about a logistics nightmare.
>
>Noone.  Their transponder breaks.  They put in a new black box.  This isn't
>complicated at all.  Some lowly spacehand is probably doing the installation
>too (supervised most likely, w/ a superior checking it).  It should be pretty
>simple to know if your transponder is operating or not.
>
><snip>
>> The tech(s) don't have to know squat about what's inside it would help but
>> it would not be needed.
> 
>> Assumption 1: The CB circuit is less powerful than a average ships computer.
>> Assumption 2: The CB circuit is only *directly* tied into the commo system.
>
>It's tied to the computer too.  Unimpeded access to both the communications
>system and main computers&databanks.  Any break in these fires the tamper
>circuit, which melts the sensitive chips (if not the tamper, as well), as does
>any breech in the black box itself.
>
>> Assumption 3: The CB circuit has no way of telling what is outside it's
>> black box.
>
>Only if the box is opened and/or access to the comm systems and computer is
>disrupted.
>
>> Assumption 4: The CB circuit has no way a knowing which other CB's are in
>> comm range, the only way for it to find out is to transmit and await and
>> answer.
>
>And they're *always* either broadcasting or tightbeaming based on whatever
>comm systems are available.
>
>> Ok here it comes,
>> First thing the techs do is isolate the CB from the ship's comm system most
>> likely during jump.
>
>Then the tamper circuit fires and the SDG chip is melted, as is it's control
>chip.  
>
>> Second install a *second* commo system tied directly to the CB chip's BB.
>> The second commo system(phantom)is a dummy system of such quality the
>> limited Intel CB can not tell it from the real thing.
>> Third tie a *powerful* separate computer into the *phantom* comm system.
>> Then basically put the CB BB into a *virtual reality* of the techs
>> choosing, thus giving the CB BB the desired info. Since the CB BB is un
>> forgeable the *new* info that the CB BB will be given out will accepted as
>> *Holy Gospel*.
>> 
>> In the above example  the BB was not broken into just given a different
>> perspective.
>
>The moment the system is broken from the real commo, it is destroyed and won't
>broadcast.  The BBs home port tells them their transponder is not broadcasting
>and a new one needs to be installed.  It could always be arranged to hook the
>black box through the "vr" system to the real comm system.  When u want it to
>"mute" you shut it up, but it keeps operating.  Maybe the same from computers.
>The point is is doable and desirable that it be allowed to "mute" but there is
>no way to truly disconnect it or discover what's inside w/o destroying it,
>other than espionage and corruption.  Having a limited # of
>production/assembly facilities for the black boxes (if even more than one)
>under heavy security and supervision solves those problems.
>


And exactly how does it KNOW that is has been disconnected form the comm
circuit or the main computer?  What sences does it use?  What instraments?
You keep giving these BBs ESP.  HOW does it do these things?  The BB's
perceptions are limited to it's sences and/or instramentation.  What is it's
method of verification?  What if the BB was attached not to a real comm unit
and computer when it was FIRST installed?  Would think that this was what is
to be expected from this ship and just except it?  How could it tell the
difference?

Charles

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #862
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 863



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Transponder's true nature
Re: MT Hand-to-Hand
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: MT Hand-to-Hand 
Re: knife fights
Re: firearm safety and technology
An interesting tidbit.
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Spectre
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Annoying Omission
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: SLOAN
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Free Traders and transponders
Re: Annoying Omission
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Transponders and computers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:08:03 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

At 01:40 AM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Gary (TravelrTNE) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Unless IYTU these Black Boxes are really, really cheap, this will not
>work. People will have to replace their black boxes all the time - every
>time the computer on their spacecraft reboots, every time they take
>minor damage in space combat, every time they need to maintain
>the communications array. Even a blown fuse will melt the Black Box.
>
>If any of these things don't cause the Black Box to melt, then the
>box can be spoofed - because the momentary loss of link caused
>by any of these can be simulated (faked) and used to switch the
>BB's inputs to a faker box and the BB's outputs to nowhere.
>
>

All too true.  The infallable black box is not practical.  To make it rugged
you make it decievable.  Form an EE's point of view the BB's would likely be
no more difficult to fake up that the squak box on a plane...except it would
be posible to include quiery and verification code databases that were
nearly fool proof so that you could turn off the black box or have two or
more black boxes but could not forge one.  The method would be very similar
to the recongition codes used for nuclear missle launch today.  A signal
would be sent and a responce given but the list of posible signals and
respones could be mega bytes long and protected by that tamper circuit to
prevent duplication.  This would duplicate the effect of a 'switchable'
black box like it appeared in the adventures and explain all that I have
read about the BB.  The signals and responces could be generated 'on the
fly' by a 'simi-sentent' chip with the exact same effect and be done without
AI technology being IN the chip.  Very similar to todays expert systems.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:15:08 -0500
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand

Mark Cook reminded me:
>
>David Smart <David.Smart@ons.octel.com> writes:
>
>> Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
>> small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
>> This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
>> round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".
>
>Dave, I hope you base this on something other than re-runs of "Wild,
>Wild West."  Sleeve/Spring holsters are/were quite rare and even those
>developed by the OS during WWII were notoriously unreliable.

Understood. The first time I saw one was on the boob tube but it was
in a movie in which the so-called inventor went West trying to sell
it. Almost every time he went to shake hands, his derringer would pop
out. And, of course, the first time he really needed it, it stuck in
his sleeve.

>> There was also a hi-tech version, called the "Power Holster", mentioned
>> in the Death World trilogy novels. It would flip a weapon the size of
>> a small 9mm (!) from the forearm into the hand, with enough force to rip
>> through regular cloth, faster than the eye could blink.
>
>Snork.  I couldn't help but crack up when I first read about these
>things in Harry Harrison's books.  This is the most high-tech way
>I have yet to read about for blowing off your own hand/forearm.

Yep. I couldn't believe they were training 7 year olds with this thing.
Even assuming a child has the arm muscles for this thing, what kind of
force is necessary to flip a mass of metal/plastic the weight of an
average small 9mm from the forearm, through a cloth sleeve, and into
a hand as fast a an eyeblink? Now imagine a hand taking that kind of
mass with that force behind it.

>There are plenty of high-tech ways of accomplishing a "lightning shot
>from the sleeve."  Power holsters are *not* on the short list. :^)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

Allen Shock writes:
> Adapting some ideas from GURPS vehicles, I came up with a way to do the
> "external grapple" used on Traveller ships such as the Gazelle and the
> Lightning class. It's based on the "vehicle hardpoints" idea. Basically, a
> grapple masses 0.0001 Mcr times the mass in tons it can carry, and costs
> .0002 Mcr times the mass in tons. a ship can have a maximum of (Body
> Surface Area x 0.015) tons of material carried this way.

I chose to use the 'external cradle' rule instead; they're a bit less efficient
than hardpoints, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> I also have some thoughts on drop tanks. Basically, they are additional
> hull space, with additional fuel tankage within, that can be ejected. They
> would add to the volume of the ship, and to it's surface area as turrets
> do. They can be armored, but are usually not armored as well as the ship,
> as they are disposable and usually ejected in combat anyway; DR 100 is
> usually sufficient.
True drop tanks don't work quite this way -- they don't really add to the
volume of the ship.  This is one of the objections to them.  In any case, just
design them as a vehicle of whatever tonnage, and typically no components other
than fuel tankage.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:39:19 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand 

> >From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
> >Subject: Re: MT Hand-to-Hand
> ...
> >Heh. Ever hear of a spring holster? It fits on the arm and shoves a
> >small 2-shot derringer-sized pistol into the hand in about one second.
> >This thing was developed in the 1800s. For Traveller, just make the
> >round a 10mm HEAP from a snub pistol and "no worries, mate".
> ...
> >BTW, one of the old White Dwarf issues had CT stats for this thing as
> >part of an article on weapons for Traveller. I'll hunt 'em up and post
> >them tonight if anyone is interested.
> 
>   IIRC, there was also a Space Gamer issue with a Trav gadgets article.

Anybody happen to have those articles laying around somewhere?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: knife fights

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Basic rule of thumb taught to folks defending against a knife.  "You
> > will get cut."  
> > You may have some input on to when and where...
> 
> Sort of like the advice I got about defending against a dog attack. For
> medium size dogs, you basicly "feed" them your arm. That gets the arm
> shredded some, but also means that their mouth is full. You can then
> use the arm as a lever.

Right you are.  That's what we teach as well.  Specifically, you feed
them your *off* arm, while going for a weapon with your other arm.

This can produce a moment of confusion for people like me.  I'm
ambidextrous with left tendencies.  I'm right-eye dominant and shoot
right-handed, but I fence, bat, and knife-fight left-handed.  So, if
I'm attacked by a dog, the arm I feed it depends on how far away it
is when I initially become aware of it, and how fast it's closing on
me.  If I have sufficient distance, it gets my left arm while I draw
my Glock with my right hand.  Otheriwse, it gets my *right* arm while
I draw my SpyderCo folder with my left hand.

Decisions, decisions. :^/

BTW, one philosophy we teach that a lot of our students have a hard
time internalizing is the concept of tiered sacrifice: "Give up the
hand to save the arm; give up the arm to save the body.  But above
all, NEVER STOP FIGHTING."

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: firearm safety and technology

Rupert Boleyn writes:

> Yes but there's the interesting problem of getting guns once you're though
> customs and on the other side. IMTU (and most of my other SF games)
> starport and customs enforcement tend to be run by the interstellar
> governments, and so is often much tougher than dirtside policing (and much
> fairer, too).
This is making the assumption that the interstellar government _cares_ about
whether you bring weapons onto the world, which it probably doesn't -- after
all, the port generally doesn't have a very high law level.

Incidentally, customs inspections should always be run by the local authorities
(they might _also_ be performed by the imperials, but for different things). 
Customs is always performed by the government of the area you are _entering_,
because they're usually the ones who know exactly what they're looking for.

> The result is that getting guns into a high law world is
> usually rather harder than getting them on-planet. This can lead to fun
> situations where the PCs get to all sorts of heavily armed people who know
> that they are rich and have no guns - otherwise they wouldn't be in the
> market for weapons, right?

Hm...maybe.  If PCs looking for weapons aren't capable of being discreet about
it they probably deserve to get mugged.  In a high law level area people who
sell guns aren't likely to tell very many people who they are selling to. 
Also, being in the market for weapons doesn't mean your either rich or unarmed
- -- it means that (a) you have enough money for a gun, and (b) you want more
guns than you currently have.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:42:49 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: An interesting tidbit.

I have a friend who sells games out of a bookstore he owns in the Upper
peninsula of Michigan. He told me that the distributor he orders his games
from, a small operation apparently out of Wisconsin, ordered 300 copies of
GURPS Traveller; apparently GURPS is not a big seller for them. One
half-hour after they got them in the warehouse, they were gone, and they
have about 1,500 on back order...I found that rather interesting :) I'm
sure it doesn't indicate anything, but it's slightly encouraging :)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:13:06 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> on 09/29/98 05:16:35 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02








dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
> GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
> supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.

The wishlist seems a little expansive to me.  I really wish they could get
the Major Alien races into 1 volume.  Perhaps I'm too much a fan of
the Alien Encyclopedia.  But I think in 20 pages/race you could give enough
detail for players and referees, instead of totally postponing non-humaniti
chargen to upcoming supplements (which don't even have contracts done).

Guess I'll use some of the pre-G:T Traveller-Gurps conversion stuff on
the web.

Bloo

     I seem to recall from my visit to the SJG site last night, that the
Behind the Claw was at the publishers now for release in November.  They
also had a notice for December release Aliens Vol. 1 with the Aslan,
Vargar, and some new alien race.  This seems to me, that if they even come
close to their schedules release, to indicate that SJG will be providing
the information you want, just not as fast as you want and for much more
money than you want to pay.  Hey at least they are going to produce the
information you want.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:20:16 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

     I still maintain that if they used semi-sentient crystalline
structures as the heart of the "chip", then someone skilled in computers,
and computer empathy should be able to 'go in' and change the "chips"
programming.  If you have a high enough skill you can change a persons
behaviour patters, why not this "chips"?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:50:12 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre

>>>>
The USAF response?
They want to get rid of the things in favor of more zoomies birds!!!  The
A-10 is the *last* dedicated attack plane in the US arsenal, everything
else is a zoomie conversion.  Grrrrrr....
>>>>
The last I heard (from a guy who was a tank commander only a year ago) is that
the army put up such a stink about it, and even offered to TAKE OVER the A-10
entirely, that the air force decided to keep them.  Apparently the army was
willing to train their own pilots for them and everything.
The current arrangement between the air force and army on aircraft is that the
army can have unarmed fixed-wing aircraft and armed helicopters, and the air
force has armed fixed-wing aircraft and unarmed helicopters.  The marines have
both armed fixed-wing and helicopters, but not many of either.  The navy has
armed fixed-wing aircraft, but I don't think they have armed helicopters aside
from sub-hunters.

- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:55:45 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

>>>>
The Gazelle design has 100 spaces fuel internal, 100 in the drop
tanks. This means that if it drops it's tanks, it cannot do Jump 5; it only
does 3 parsecs. 
>>>>
It can do J5 only ONCE after consuming the fuel in the drop tanks and dropping
them.  That is sort of the idea behind drop tanks after all; they let you have
a smaller ship with a bigger Jump drive than you have fuel for, then use the
drop tanks to supply the missing fuel.

- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:57:02 -0600
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com>
Subject: Annoying Omission

One of the most annoying mistakes in GURPS Traveller (which we will correct
in the second printing) is the inadvertant omission of Rob Caswell's name
from the art credits. Rob sold us second rights to a lot of his previous
Traveller art and we jumped at the chance to include his work in the book

I have already apologized to Rob and he has accepted (all he asked was that
we buy time on the Goodyear blimp during the next Super Bowl to rectify the
mistake : )

This error is all the more annoying because one of Rob's pieces appears on
the credits page itself, which means that his signature appears on the
page, but not his name.

Also note that I am the designer of Eagles, not Marc as the sidebar on page
61 mistakenly states (don't ask how it happened...).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Editor
     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     SJ Games
     LKW@IO.COM
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:03:36 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

I'm going toss a couple of things into the mix that I consider important.

1)  The Deyo circuit has to be removable.  There are cases, especially
during overhaul periods, where ship's power will be shut down (no power, no
computer/commo suite).  It may not be particularly convenient, but it is
necessary.  Because these boxes are installed on merchant ships, the work
will be done in civilian shipyards, which means that the process has to be
commercially viable.

A aux. power connector is possible, but there is still the problem of the
box 'communicating' with an outside source, which would also require an aux.
data port.  The combination of an aux power/data connection would allow the
box to remain active while the rest of the ship is dormant.  It would also,
however, would permit 'spoofing' of the box by technicians 'in the know'.

And there will be technicians 'in the know'.  There are thousands of Class A
and B starports (starports capable of new construction and performing annual
overhauls).  Also, the starports along the Imperial border will need to have
a ready supply of the boxes on hand to install on foriegn flag vessels
entering the Imperium.  (I would point out, that this means that the boxes
have to be able to interface securely into the communications suites of
vessels built outside of Imperial standards, but I assume this has already
been covered in depth.)  Even if you limit the number of technicians who can
supply auxilliary power/data to the Deyo box to a few per port, that still
leave a huge number of people with the technical capability to access the
transponder.

I will leave the efforts of the governments surrounding the Imperium to
acquire the Deyo technology for another discussion...

2)  Transponders must have a 'silent' mode.  Otherwise they are a hazard to
the ship they are installed on.  Consider the implications...

Assumption - each Deyo box has a unique identification number that is
assigned to a specific ship.  The database of ID numbers probably is not
confidential - it is one way to verify the identity of a ship you are
hailing.

a.  Instead of putting all this terribly expensive Fire Control equipment on
ships, just install a transponder 'pinger' in the warheads of missiles.
Fire and forget - the missile will start pinging the transponder, the box
will respond and the missile gets a new fix on the target.  (For more fun
and kicks, install another Deyo box in the missile and let the two talk it
up...)

b.  ArchDuke Norris is on a goodwill tour of the Domain of Deneb in his
private yacht (surrounded by a portion of the Sector Navy).  A Ine Givar
ship fires a spread of missiles, each tuned to 'listen' for his yacht's
transponder ID.

IMTU, transponders have 2 modes.

Command mode - When a ID request (AKA 'ping') is recieved, an alert is put
on the commo workstation.  The commo officer must authorize a return signal
before it is actually broadcast.  There are specific cases where this is not
the case.  When a unit of the Imperial Navy 'pings' a ship while operating
in this mode, the reply is automatic, and when a Signal GK is sent, it
triggers a response from any recieving ship.  This is the normal operating
mode of ships in Imperial Space.

Silent mode - When this mode is triggered, it automatically writes an entry
into the ship's log.  This suppresses all transponder transmissions.

douglas

E-Mail: douglas@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~douglas/traveller
IMTU tc+ t4+ tg- ru(+) ge(+) 3I+@ pi+ jt au- st ls
The early bird gets the worm, BUT
   the second mouse gets the cheese!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:13:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> >-  No self-contained: This is my Hero System bias showing. It play Gurps
> > Traveller you will need Gurps Core Rules (duh!!), Compendium I:
> > Character Creation (did not know about this book till yesterday), and
> > Gurps Space. SJG also suggests Gurps Ultra-Tech and Ultra-Tech 2, Gurps
> > Vehicles would not hurt, and Gurps Martial Arts if you plan to play a
> > martial artist.

I just read my copy and you don't need any books besides the core rules.
Compendium I would be handy if you are creating alien races, but theres
nothing in it that is REQUIRED to  play G:T.  The same for the Ultra-tech
books (Including Biotech, my favorite).  They're just equipment lists.  If
you want to use your old equipment lists, they'll work.  I think the
equipment list in G:T has just about every item my players have wanted to
buy in the the last twenty or so years, though.  It starts off with rules
to convert Ultra-tech equipment, but it does give GURPS stats for most of
the common stuff thats going to be used.

G:Space is a nice reference book, but the majority of it is set up for
designing your own universe.  Its really incredible in the way it lays out
all of the major decisions you need in order to make a good sci-fi
universe, but I bought G:T for the Traveller Universe.  By copy of G:Space
is just going to keep gathering dust.

Gurps Vehicles is nice.  That's one the gearheads on the list are going to
want to consider picking up - its the Gurps equivelent of FF&S.  But,
theres going to be a lot of stuff in there that doesn't apply tothe
Traveller Universe (the same is true for the Ultra-tech books).  The
modular starship design is a simplified version of the Vehicle rules
designed around the Traveller universe.  But I played Traveller for years
(from the origenal release to the release of Megatraveller) with just the
vehicles from the basic set and hand-waving, and I don't think I'll change
that (I'm not a Gearhead - head hung in shame).  The one section of
Vehicles that does tend to get a lot of work is the weapon creation rules.
Those are so fun.  But, I've got a good weapon list already, in G:T.

G:Martial Arts are the rules for Cinematic Martial Arts, really.  You can
play a martial artist with the basic gurps rules and skills (ie Judo and
Karate) and some imagination.  Of course, if you do want rules for all
those martial arts manuvers, you will need to go with a rules supplenment.
As a reconmendation though, the MA manuvers rules are in Compendium I, and
you can design your own styles.

So basically what I am saying is that I think that G:T is playable with
just the Gurps Basic rules and nothing else.

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:18:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> I was really hoping that they'd do this like they did the GURPS: Diskworld
> that just came out.  It really impressed me by having GURPS Lite in the
> back of the book.

Gurps Lite is available on the web for free at:
	http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/
I haven't checked it out in relation to G:T yet, but I imagine that it
will be enough to play, but some of the skills are not going to be listed.
(There is a complete Gurps skill list available though, check the
resources at <http://www.sjgames.com/gurps> - I can't remember the URL for
the skills list.

If I recall correctly from the playtest time, Gurps Lite was taken out so
that they could get another 32 pages of Traveller related material in.  I
think (though this is really hazy) that it was the Starship stuff that
replaced it.

> What really irritates me is stating you need Compendium I, isn't it
> currently out of print?!?!?  I do know that it isn't always available.
> That isn't the kind of book you should require.  It took me a year to get a
> copy of GURPS Vehicles because it was out of print.

I do believe tath the reprint is going to be out soon on the compendia,
but you don't need anything more thean the basic rules (or lite) to play
G:T - my reasoning is on a seperate post.

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:42:12 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SLOAN

>
>  Weren't the deck plans for this class in the first Challenge mag?
>
>

Could be, I think I've got them.  Hafta check when I get home...
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:52:37 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

>One of the (very few) good things about being in the Soviet 
>Army must have been that you owned the air force (Frontal 
>Aviation, anyway), and that your bosses never lost sight of 
>the basic rule of land warfare - everything is there to 
>support the grunts (however low their status compared to tanks).
>

The USMC MAGTF (Marine Air-Ground Task Force) commander owns the air 
power in his force.  This is how they ensure that they have the close 
air support...  One of the Norwegian commanders was complaining about 
how he had spent the entire exercise demanding air and never getting it, 
and constantly hearing air sorties over the Marine Corps area of 
responsibility...  That was when he learned that all those attack 
aircraft had been painted with the USMC in 2 foot letters...
The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:05:11 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

     When has this not been true for any role playing game.  Anyone who
gets into a role playing game should expect to spend some cash.  I picked
up the books for TSR's new Alternity at Dragonflight (Local gaming con) and
spent $125.00 and that was only for 3 hardbound books and two softbound
supliments.  In reality the only person who needs all the supliments listed
on the back cover of the GURPS Traveller book is the GM.  Anyone who is
just ging to be a player can get by with the Traveller book, and one of the
players books (if they still make it) or the compendium.

Leo




dberry@hooked.net on 09/29/98 03:59:19 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02




At 03:27 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called of
>all things "GURPS: Psionics".

Yes, but..

I've collect GURPS books for years, so I already have all the books
mentioned, along with a few (dozen) others.  Traveller/Illuminati anyone?

For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.
- --

+------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|      http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
+------------------------------------------+
| "or it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' |
| "Chuck him out, the brute!"              |
| But it's "Saviour of 'is country"        |
| when the guns begin to shoot;"           |
+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:20:01 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

     Look, quit trying to analyse it.  Webber says it works, the books are
great, i.e. leave it alone.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:41:10 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Free Traders and transponders

     Too Right.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:45:03 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Annoying Omission

     Loren, will Aliens Vol. 1 make its December release date?

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:46:33 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

     I think SJG site said that the Compedium II will be available in
either November or December.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:51:17 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>Leo Hale wrote:
>>The most frightening element of the TNE setting, is that they still use those
>>crystals in their computer systems (required for any computer systems over 9
>>but under 17) and so run the risk of Virus infection every time they
>>encounter another ship.
> 
>They are most certainly NOT used in the New Era.  The Free Traders that have
>survived were in ships either too low tech (TL10-) or ones that made a
>decision to disconnect or otherwise remove/destroy their transponders during
>the Rebellion and Hard Times.

The Virus didn't need the transponders to take over a computer; they could
use other communication devices or even just close proximity(I've always
assumed that some of their powers were psionic in nature). The transponders
were supposedly the reason why the Virus spread so fast as it did. Low-tech
computers got infected too, but they were too small to allow the Virus to go
active.




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #863
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 864



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Money
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Transponders
Good development
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponders
Re: Transponders
re: Transponders
re: Transponders
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: SLOAN
Re: Transonders and computers
re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponders
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: GTrav and "Alternate History"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:19:25 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Money

From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>

>Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>
>>Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
>>>
>>>IMTU the base unit is the planetary credit, equivalent to 1/10,000th of
>>>the average yearly production of its citizens. It is also, roughly, the
>>>amount of money an unskilled manual laborer recieves (after accounting
>>>for taxes and dependents) for one hour's work under standard conditions.
>>>The Imperial Credit (CrImp) is equivalent to the credit of Capital.
>
>Looking on page 41 of _Pocket Empires_, the second part of your
>definition matches almost exactly with the definition of "small-c credit"
>(the economist's term, not the name of the currency).

That's propably because I wrote that sidebar ;-)

>The first part seems to derive from the paragraph beginning, "The average
>earnings of one labor factor (100,000,000 people) are one trillion credits."

The other way around, actually.

>Thus being canon-correct, and economically nonsensical, as these two values
>are (a) subject to significant differences depending on how they are
>computed,

Well, if I thought I had worked out a simple way to quantify the economic
realities of the Real World, I would be writing on a doctoral thesis. As it
is, I'm just proposing a simplified system that will work for a role playing
game (indeed, for most RPGs). This is just a basic rule.

>...(b) not strongly linked in any case,

I'm not so sure that you're right about that, but I'm not qualified to say
for sure. However, I'm pretty sure that in a simplified RPG environment
they could be.

>...and (c) not under the control of the government, which is what is issuing
>the money ((c) has more to do with political nonsense than economic).

Again, I'm using a simplified model for a RPG. The unit I use as a referee is
the credit that I described. When I work out a detailed decription of a world
I usually just make one Gablotnik (or whatever the local currency is called)
worth one credit; that way I can just use the standard price lists (Sad to
confess, my players and I often just use the unit 'one money'. Its not as
evocative as using "real" currencies, but its a lot faster and easier). But
sometimes I make it worth 2 credits and halve all the prices. Also, I assume
a work year of 3000 standard hours. If the society have radically different
work customs, it is a simple matter to adjust the currency to match them.

>>For example, this means that a 'united states credit' is worth somewhere
>>between zero (many unskilled laborers make no money after accounting for
>>taxes and dependents)

If that was true he would starve to death very quickly.

>>to about 80 cents (GNP/population) to about $4.50 (minimum wage for a
>>worker with no dependents;

How much does a worker with dependents get for the same work?

>>It is also subject to significant lag based on census figures, etc,

It usually takes me about 5 seconds to get the census figure for a world that
I'm planning an adventure on.

>>...and gives the government essentially zero leeway to control the economy.

I have yet to meet a player interested in running a fiscal planning campaign.

>I think that this misreads the definition of "small-c credit" from PE. The
>economic definition from page 41 of PE clearly describes the relation
>between taxes, dependents, and "small-c credits."  Once one figures out how
>many people can be supported by the income of one unskilled laborer (we'll
>use minimum wage as the base income in US Credits, aka dollars), we can
divide that figure by the "retention rate" a term I have coined to refer to
>that portion of one's pay that one keeps after paying taxes) at that income
>level to determine the relationship between credits and dollars. Thus, if a
>minimum-wage worker (I'll use $5.00/hr just to keep the math simpler) can
>provide support for one dependent, in addition to him/her/itself, and pays
>a net tax rate of 15%, then a US dollar would equal:
>
>(2 [persons supported] / .85 [retention rate]) / 5 [amount of US
>currency to achieve this level of wages], thus:

>(2/.85)/5, which equals (2.35)/5, which equals .47 (all calculations
>rounded to 2 decimal places), which means that each US dollar is
>equivalent to about .47 small-c credits.

And the last time we discussed it, we arrived at a figure of 2-3$ to the
CrImp. That's fits quite prettily.

And Anthony Jackson also wrote:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen writes:
>>The transfer of wealth between planets are accomplished by transferring
>>real wealth (ie. goods) bteween planets. The money is merely promisory
>>notes. It can be in the form of bank notes or any other sort of (hopefully
>>secure) data transmission.
>
>While in the long term this tends to be true, due to the way currency markets
>work, in the short term this will probably not be true.

You are making the common mistake of confusing money and wealth.

And:

>My primary objection was to using the 'credit' (as defined from wages) for
>_anything_ other than theoretical arguments about economics.  It's also almost
>completely irrational to tie the value of local currency to wages -- it's tied
>to GPP, and that in turn depends on how you choose to define GPP.

I disagree. It may not be true enough to be of any practical use in the real
world, but for purposes of running a RPG campaign it is close enough. It is
based on the assumption that in most societies an unskilled manual laborer
will earn just enough to keep alive with very little left over. That fits
all the societies I've checked so far (admittedly not many: Modern Denmark,
modern America, Ancient Rome, Classic Traveller and T4 (but _not_ MT and I
forget how TNE turned out).

As for GPP, I use a definition similar to the one in Pocket Empires (I think
that the influence of TL on productivity is more than linear, so I use
TL^2/10 instead of TL in the formula, but that's immaterial; the system
works just as well with the official formula). 



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:18:42 -0700
From: "Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.COM>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

>     Look, quit trying to analyse it.  Webber says it works, the books are
>great, i.e. leave it alone.
>


But if we don't analyse it, how can we create the rules to replicate it in
our campaigns?

;)

douglas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:24:07 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Charles Prevatte writes:

>The concept of 'finger printing' space ships to counter piracy is asinine.
>All a pirate has to do is have a legal ship and one without any transponder
>and he is untraceable.

Think of the transponder signal as the equivalent of a licence plate. If you
don't have one, the authorities are very likely to become curious. If you use
one that dosen't exist, the authorities are very likely to become curious.
If you use one that dosen't belong to a ship of your type, the authorities
are very likely to become curious. If you use one that belongs to a ship
that is supposed to be somewhere else, the authorities are very likely to
become curious. And if you use one that belongs to a stolen ship, the
authorities DEFINITELY will become curious!

>Also no sane person would be a passenger on a ship that contiuiosly screamed
>'here I am' in pirate infested space or unexplored space.

Most passenger liners don't go to pirate infested systems or unexplored space.

>Also no military would tolerate the ability to exactly track the moments of
>their war ships

The ability of naval ships to turn off their transponders is canon (so is the
ability of civilian ships to do the same, come to that).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:34:03 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Good development

I was looking over the G:Trav site at SJ Games and found that they have
already published errata for it.  I've never been a fan of Gurps, but this
level of quick, proactive support combined with what looks like a stellar
product, may cause a revision in my thinking.

Kurt

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:31:28 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Gary writes:
>None of those 'officials' can open the black boxes.  In fact, no one can
>(w/o destroying the chips inside).

No, but they must be able to program them. Which is all that's needed for
this purpose.

>There is no access to the chip except where they breed the chips and
>assemble the black boxes. I presuppose there are a limited number of these
>facilities (if even more than one). Needless to say these *must* be heavily
>protected from both espionage and corruption.

OK. We'll assume that you can't use a transponder chip to breed new chips.
It would be a sensible precaution to make the end product incapable of
breeding and have special breeders only at a few locations. Let's distinguish
between them by calling them 'breeders' and 'blanks'. In how many places
would there be breeders? This is undefined and the possibilities range from
one in each place where you can register a ship to a single central place.

Now, regardless of how many places you keep breeders, the system requires
that the officials at each starport where you can build new ships be able
to issue a new transponder. If each Class A starport has a breeder of its
own, then the number of spare blanks will be very small, but the number of
people able to create new blanks are high. If there is only a single place
that breeds new chips, the number of spare blanks floating around will be
tremendous. Pick any assumption between these two extremes and you still get
a lot of people in a position to mess with the system.

The system also requires that each place where ship sales can be registered
has a means of programming a transponder. That's all Class A and B starports
at a minimum (I myself think that Class C and possibly D starports would also
have them).

>...the chip itself can only tell where it's been and what it's been up to.
>They can't "lie" as the DGP style transponders do. The military ships (and
>all, according to a justifiable "canon" argument) just got a mute button.

That's news to me. I'm quite sure it's the civilian ships that only have mute
buttons and that military ships have special variable transponders.

>>accepting  --  no, make that: 'absolutely refuse to accept'  --  the
>>unforgable Deyo chip transponder. A couple of others are: 1) The dates
>
>Do you have even the faintest desire to accept them?  Have you ever?

Not really. Even if they made perfect internal sense they would still be in
conflict with previously published material. That alone damns them as far as
I am concerned. That they are not self-consistent just damns them once more.

>>...the programmable transponder mentioned in several canonical
>>sources would have been Deyo transponders  --  or at least able to fool
>>Deyo transponders.
>
>Not having these long OOP sources, I can't really debate this.  I hold the
>"lying" transponders of DGP to be another of their continuity glitches.

I can't off-hand recall any DGP mention of programmable transponders. The
references I was talking about are CT.

>Anyone care to paraphrase/summarize how this 'programming" worked?

_The Traveller Adventure_ p. 112:

"Transponders are an essential piece of equipment on interstellar vessels.
Sealed, tamperproof devices, they send out an identification of the ship -
its name, registry, and important statistics - when a signal is sent to the
ship from an outside source. This provides a permanent and theoretically
unbeatable way of registering starships.
    Actually, of course, transponders are neither tamper-proof nor
unbeatable. But it takes excellent resources or very good connections to
alter a transponder. The Oberlindes device is even better - at the touch of
a button, the transponder can be set to any one of three different ID codes."

and

"Any particular setting of the transponder can be reprogrammed to a new
identification by any person or persons with skills of electronics-2 and
computer-2."

I would interpret this to mean that changing a standard transponder would be
far more difficult than changing the special three-setting one, but possible
with somewhat higher electronics and computer skills.

>>2) My mind positively boggles at the notion that
>>the Solomani, Zhodani, Hivers, etc. would accept a requirement that all
>>their ships incorporate a mysterious black box connected to their
>>telemetry and communication equipment and delivered by the Imperium.
>
>If they want to do business in Imperial space they would use whatever the
>Imperials required them to.

I could give you an argument about that. Trade is a two-way street. Take a
look at some of the recent instances of artificial trade barriers imposed by
a country here in our Real World. I would expect the Solomani (and the other
major interstellar empires) to retaliate by forbidding any ship _carrying_ a
Deyo transponder from trading in the Confederation/Consulate/etc. The
resulting screams of pain from Imperial megacorporations would sweep that
requirement away pdq. But I suppose one could come up with some story that
accounted for the Solomani/Zhodani/etc. swallowing it. It's the bit about the
Solomani/Zhodani/etc. installing them in their own ships that I can't accept.

>As for using them on their native systems, maybe their high-ups learned
>precisely how they operate...

In that case they should be able to forge them. Unless you mean that they
don't know precisely how they operate, but merely know how the Imperium
_claims_ that they operate. Besides, in order for the Solomani to use
them for their own ships, they must have a plentiful supply of blanks
_and_ have the ability to program them. 

>...and that they were full proof against conventional methods of forgery.

If you were the Solomani, would you trust the Imperium to tell the truth
about the capabilities of these black boxes? I wouldn't.

>One can buy whole transponder black boxes, but not Deyo chips or their
>control chips. No hypothetical 'corrupt official' (beyond the counter-
>espionage abilities of the Imperium, that is) has access to the chips.

Yes they have. Every official capable of issuing a legitimate transponder
must have a way to get his hands on blank chips and of programming them.
They may be sealed into transponders already, but they will still be blanks.

>>A closely guarded secret known to only a few thousand people... LOL
>
>But not to the general public (and the Library Data available to them).  I'm
>sure a high noble can find out nearly any piece of information one cares to
>look up.

I wasn't thinking of the high nobles at all. I was thinking of all the super-
visors in all the starship registration offices in the Imperium. And whatever
technical personnel each of them have to perform the actual programming and
installing of transponders. Alell has a Class B starport and that has a
starship registration office; Arden has a Class C starport and that has one
too. Alltogether I would estimate at least 5000 such offices in the Imperium.

>How many high nobles are there? ; )

If you use a top-down analysis you get:

1 emperor                         =          1
1 archduke per domain             =          6
1 duke per subsector              =        310+
3-4 counts per subsector          =      1,100+
1 marquis per major world         =      5,000+
3-4 barons per major world        =     17,500+
some more barons for minor worlds =      2,500?

A total of between 20 and 30,000. Add an unspecified number of court and
achievement nobles and you may double or perhaps triple that number. A
lot depends on your assumptions.

If you make a bottom-up analysis based on the character creation rules you
find something around 4-5% of the population are high nobles. That would
come to 600-750 billion high nobles. So I usually don't... (OK, its 'only'
4-5% of that part of the population that enters the standard Traveller
occupations, so the figure would propably be a couple of orders of magnitude
lower ;-)

>Besides... A few thousand people out of a population of trillions.  And I'm
>sure of those trillions a few thousand can also be provided to make sure an
>"accident" happens to anyone likely to squeal

All you'd accomplish by that particular bright scheme is to double the
number of people who know the secret. And who watches the watchmen?

>...(even assuming these people don't have the highest Imperial security
>clearance to begin with).

You think that a high security clearance is absolute assurance against
corruption?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:29:56 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> Think of the transponder signal as the equivalent of a licence plate. If you
> don't have one, the authorities are very likely to become curious. If you use
> one that dosen't exist, the authorities are very likely to become curious.
> If you use one that dosen't belong to a ship of your type, the authorities
> are very likely to become curious. If you use one that belongs to a ship
> that is supposed to be somewhere else, the authorities are very likely to
> become curious. And if you use one that belongs to a stolen ship, the
> authorities DEFINITELY will become curious!

And, chances are, that you can drive around with one that you made 
in your garage and no one will ever care. The authorities don't
become curious about things they don't notice.

If you have a transponder that comes from a stolen ship on the 
other end of the Imperium that matches your type of ship, you'll
probably get away with it for quite a while.

- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:33:22 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Walter Smith writes:
>If YTU requires that a transponder be issued long enough in advance
>of first flight for the ID to be transmitted sectorwide (4-6 months),

What kind of courier network are you assuming here? A random one designed by
rolling dice or one designed by rational beings to get information through
in a timely manner? If you assume something rational, you can get information
from a subsector capital to a subsector capital three subsectors away in 8-9
jump-6 jumps or slightly over two months. Disseminating it to the rest of the
subsector will take some weeks more, of course. In that time a Far Trader
whose jumps just happened to always take it in the same direction could get
about 10 parsecs (70 days with one jump-2 per forthnight = 5 jumps).

>that's fine - but you still have transfer of ownership situations. Let's
>say _Consort Frederica_ just got seized by customs for smuggling and I
>just bought it at auction. The next port I go to might still have an APB
>notice for the _Frederica_ that I'll have to deal with.

No. The port would have the notice of the capture of the _CF_ that went out
three months ago. It may not have the notice of the sale yet. So the
authorities will single it out for special attention and check its log and
your ownership papers thoroughly.

>Or more common, I just bought my ship from someone, I start trading off the
>X-Boat links - every planet I go to, the papers I'm carrying are the only
>proof I didn't kill that nice old captain who was here last year and steal
>his ship.

But your papers have always been your primary proof. The transponder just
determines whether the port authorities gives them a perfunctory or a
thorough examination.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:47:29 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponders

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Think of the transponder signal as the equivalent of a licence plate. If you
don't have one, the authorities are very likely to become curious. If you use
one that dosen't exist, the authorities are very likely to become curious.
If you use one that dosen't belong to a ship of your type, the authorities
are very likely to become curious. If you use one that belongs to a ship
that is supposed to be somewhere else, the authorities are very likely to
become curious. And if you use one that belongs to a stolen ship, the
authorities DEFINITELY will become curious!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Very good comparison, with the following caveats:

Most police officers won't take much notice of a license plate unless
your vehicle breaks a traffic law, annoys them, or otherwise gets their 
attention - say by being the same color and make as a vehicle they've
been told to look out for. Police officers may have some license
plate types they'll notice - don't put a trailer plate on your bright red
sports car, for example - but don't record every license plate they see
just in case, nor does every police officer have on their person a list
of all license plates ever issued.

Starship transponders, in this sense, would be very like license plates.
authorities can regulate your ship, see if you're behaving and identify
a ship they see (given enough time).

However:
The license number of a stolen car can be broadcast nationwide
in a matter of minutes, the reports travelling far faster than the
stolen car can hope to. Sightings of the vehicle can also be updated
in the same fashion. Further, lists of all license plates can be accessed
from a distance with some speed - often while a suspected vehicle
is being first looked at.

With the canonical communications lags, transponders can't be like
license plates - they can't provide local authorities with an easily
checked method of tracking vehicles, any more than a wanted poster
in 18th century London could help catch a smuggler in India.

Unless, of course, YTU penalizes people for travelling faster than
the Imperial mail, and makes them stick to flight plans and scheduled
stops. Be kind of like the role-playing opportunities of a passenger
jet crew, wouldn't it?  :)


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:56:57 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Transponders

Hans wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Or more common, I just bought my ship from someone, I start trading off the
>X-Boat links - every planet I go to, the papers I'm carrying are the only
>proof I didn't kill that nice old captain who was here last year and steal
>his ship.

But your papers have always been your primary proof. The transponder just
determines whether the port authorities gives them a perfunctory or a
thorough examination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My papers are the primary proof? I was thinking that ship's papers
were easily forged, compared to transponders - I thought effectively
unforgeable transponders was the crucial point of the system.

A technician who once worked at a starport (so he knows how to
update transponder ownership, payment status and other signals)
and a guy with Forgery-3 or so, I'm in business.

Let me explain. I'm resistant to the idea of a perfect transponder
working as a magic bullet for control of ships in the Empire.
Makes it too hard to do interesting things with the PC's...

If we could determine a criteria for gaining the attention of the authorities,
give the PC's some breathing room, we'd be OK.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:05:16 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:17:25 EDT, TravelrTNE@aol.com

>> How many times have people found ways around supposedly secure systems?

>Find a way around the Deyo transponders as presented and tell us all about it.

And the corralary of that is how many times have people assumed
that because a small groups of people can't find a way, it
doesn't exist?

>> Add the fact that we are talking a system in mass production and I
>> think the idea that they would be tamper proof to be laughable.
>
>Tell us how to successfully tamper with it.

I don't even know how to make one (nobody does) so being able
to describe how to tamper with one is eually iffy.  But
the fact that they are a mass production item under the
complete control of the people who want to tamper with them
(including controlling all input into it) says to me that
"tamper proof" if wishful thinking.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:07:10 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: SLOAN

>>>>
Weren't the deck plans for this class in the first Challenge mag?
>>>>
Yes, the deck plans and a workup of the ship are in Challenge 25.  In fact,
the deck plans (at least some of them) are the centerfold.  Not quite the same
as Playboy's, but for a closet gearhead potentially having more interest.
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:03:38 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
>Please inform me of how PGP can "be broken". I suspect Phil Zimmerman, RSA
>Data Securities, and the NSA would love to know as well.

Let me count the ways...

1) Ridiculously massive computational horsepower. (If it takes twice the
estimated lifetime of the universe today, Moore's Law (well, guideline,
anyway) suggests that it'll take *1* lifetime in 18 months. Give the
computer industry a few million years of development and my analogy will
have broken down completely. ;-)
2) Find and exploit a flaw in the algorithm. (E.g., figure out a cheap way
of factoring numbers. (IIRC there's no proof that factoring *must* be
difficult. It's just that everyone agrees that it is so now, and will likely
remain so for quite some time.))
3) Build a back door into the encryption software.
4) Bug the *terminal*, not the transmission.
5) Talk someone who has the key into giving it to you. (Social engineering.)
6) Hold a gun to the head of someone who knows the key. (Anti-social
engineering. ;-)
7) If key recovery is used, bribe someone with access to the 'skeleton key'.
8) Find and exploit a bug in the implementation. (PGP has had a few.)
9) Find and exploit a bug in the *OS* used to run the encryption software.
10) Outlaw encryption, that way it won't be used by bad guys. Right? ;-)

The above is not to say that I find PGP useless and encryption pointless.
Quite the opposite.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:23:19 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

>This was intended to show a hole in the original poster's reasoning.
>If the transponder melts itself when the commo system is turned off,
>you can't stop your transponder from broadcasting, right? Well,
>since directional communication systems are cheap and common,
>it's easy to have your ship making signals that no one else can hear.
>
>Always-On transponders are a workable idea if, IYTU, the spacelanes
>are safe to travel and you never go beyond the bounds of whatever
>interstellar authority you're using as a campaign background.
>It also makes space travel about as exciting as a drive down
>a quiet freeway on Earth.
>
>IMO, even if unforgable transponders are part of your campaign,
>they should at least have a mute button.

Actually these schemes where they melt down can backfire.
If they melt down when communications are lost, they will
melt down if there is just a communications malfunction.
That means that any ship with melted chips can just blame
them on a malfunction.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:31:01 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponders

At 10:24 PM 9/30/98 +0200, you wrote:

>The ability of naval ships to turn off their transponders is canon (so is the
>ability of civilian ships to do the same, come to that).
>
>

Pardon?  I thought that was the point of this discussion.  That if you turn
off the transponder it self distructs.  That was half of my gripe about it
being very unrealistic.  If the transponders send ability can be muted I
have few problem with the any of the discribed systems except those that log
all other transponders they meet.  That log would create a security
nightmare for the Empire in that a harbor master or a ship owner could
quickly build an accurate map of almost all trafic within a subsector.  The
value of such information to a sipping company or an enemy power is
staggering.  Remember the WW2 line, 'Loose lips sink ships!"?  All to true
them and even more true when a near perfect log of nearly all traffic
exists.  Big brother works BOTH ways.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:34:14 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

>      I still maintain that if they used semi-sentient crystalline
> structures as the heart of the "chip", then someone skilled in computers,
> and computer empathy should be able to 'go in' and change the "chips"
> programming.  If you have a high enough skill you can change a persons
> behaviour patters, why not this "chips"?

They can communicate w/ Virus, but most were unaware just what was inside the
black box.  The transponders were inhabited by lobotomized chips (a TL15
program).  Virus was a project designed to disable (it actually "overwrote"
the chip in the method of the Cymbeline predator) and was a TL16-17 program.
Assuming a psi does contact a non-Virus transponder chip, he can probably
fiddle w/ it, but any altering of the program is likely to be noticed in
comparison against another transponder's control chip (and thus return a
"False" squawk).

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:34:08 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: GTrav and "Alternate History"

> GURPS Traveller *is* the "official" world now. Check their author want list
...

Not quite.  G:T is the "official Alternate Traveller universe" or something to
that effect. As long as they keep the A word on the front, i don't mind too
much. : ).  I'll probably even buy some of it.

> they've got masses of Traveller stuff there, and nary a mention of the
rebellion
> and virus. I think it is extremely likely that rebellion and virus are dead
for

Only because its forbidden by contract.  Maybe they'll get a new contract or
"T5" will have *some* TNE support.  There's always hope...

> Personally, I always liked the idea of the rebellion ... it gave great scope
for
> adventures; virus, on the other hand, was just downright stupid and an
insult to
> the intelligence (and, no, if you don't know why that's my opinion of virus,
I'm

Maybe to *your* intelligence.  There are many others who don't think so and
will pay for products that support our campaigns.  It's all a question whether
our money is wanted or not. I'm not losing sleep at the lack of support and
i'm saving money.

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #864
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 30 1998    Volume 1998 : Number 865



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Transponder's true nature
re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Breaking Encryption
Re: Transponders
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Rocketry 100 (long)
Re: Transponders
Re: Transponders and computers
re: Transponder's true nature
RW US aircraft
GURPS Compendium II
Re: GURPS Compendium II
Re: GURPS:Traveller in Boston
Re: Annoying Omission
Official vs. alternate

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:34:20 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> And exactly how does it KNOW that is has been disconnected form the comm
> circuit or the main computer?  What sences does it use?  What instraments?

You tell me.  I'm not an EE.  What will EEs of the 57th century be able to do?
A "simple" TL-15 feedback doowackey signal?  :::handwave handwave:::
Connection lost.  Survival Margin just says [after military ships are said to
have a "mute" button]: "Any attempt to open the box cause the tamper circuit
to destroy the contents, but simple disconnection from other systems caused
the same effect.  In order to prevent the use of transponders removed from
destroyed vessels, disconnection from the main computer or the comunications
circuits cause the tamper circuit to fire as well."-pg 77.  

Is not possible for even today to have something like that?  Yes, there would
be counters, but that's another issue.  I see nothing bout turning comm off,
just "disconecting."  Making it a closed circuit or something to that effect
once its installed. 

The writers weren't 57th c EEs, and i'm not either. I don't even play one on
tv.

> You keep giving these BBs ESP.  HOW does it do these things?  The BB's
> perceptions are limited to it's sences and/or instramentation.  What is it's
> method of verification?  What if the BB was attached not to a real comm unit
> and computer when it was FIRST installed?  Would think that this was what is
> to be expected from this ship and just except it?  How could it tell the
> difference?

I don't believe in ESP. ; )  If not correctly installed, i'd say it wouldn't
work (if indeed the black box isn't instructed on how a proper connection
"feels.")  HOW?  Each chip learned and was taught by "educated" chips.   How
does this happen?  How do we do it?  The Deyo chips are more analgous to
evolved beings than to computer microchips as we know them today.

I accept that it may not be transmitting (i accept a "mute" button. it was
stated to be only for military, but i'm convinced its good for civvies too).
If it's not attached to a real comm, it won't transmit.  If it's not attached
to a receiver it won't read.  If it's not attached to a real computer, it
won't have no databanks, main comp to play around in, thus installation won't
be complete and it won't work (it won't be able to chatter w/ other
transponders).  You have a transponder that isn't sending when that IN warship
comes around, you better be prepared to suck vaccuum (or go to a Prison
Planet<g>).

How it verified information is detailed.  In each transponder there were two
SDG-313F chips.  One was the IFF that did the talking and squawking and
chattering.  The other was a control chip.  Both of these were attached to a
larger memory chip.  Connection w/ the main computer gave access to the ships
main comp and databanks.  These chips all had a reliable and slow mutation.
Any alteration would mean a chip could tell another one didn't mutate at the
same slow and reliable rate.  They were "trained" by "educated" chips right
out of the lab, where they would be tested for functionality, veracity, etc
etc.  When talking w/ another chip, it would judge if the other chip was
authentic or not based on the conversation and comparison w/ its own control
chip.  When installed, it was told it's registry, id #, ship name, captain,
blah blah.  Whenever there was a change this was told to it as well.  The old
information was never overwritten or delted, just added to.  They kept a
complete running history and the ships resources to do it.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:34:18 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

> This was intended to show a hole in the original poster's reasoning.
> If the transponder melts itself when the commo system is turned off,
> you can't stop your transponder from broadcasting, right? Well,

Thats not what I said.  What I was saying is that if the transponder is
*disconnected* from the communications systems (and/or main computer).  I've
already said that I accept a "mute" button

Bruce said:
> > Showing what? A mass of electronics, that's all. You can't tell by looking
at
> > it that a Deyo chip is a living being, not a chip. You can't tell what's
going
> > on or reverse engineer the thing unless you can isolate the compnents,
which
> > you can't do without breaking the box open. If you _do_ successfully break
> > open the box, the moment you start tryig to analyze the Deyo chip, yopu're
> > going to come to the conclusion that something went wrong, because the
chip
> > doesn't make sense at all. It won't, as a static piece of electronic
> > circuitry, because it _isn't_ a static piece of circuitry. How long is it
> > going to take for your reverse-engineer pirates to make _THAT_ conceptual
leap?

Walt replied:
> I'll lay you odds that by TL13-15 you'll have scanning gear that will let
> you map circuit diagrams and possibly electron pathways through that
> black box - unless you completely shield the box. I mean _completely_,
> so completely that there aren't even any input or output feeds - which
> would make the tranponder useless.

What are the odds there will also be, by TL13-15, materials/methods of
interfering w/ said scanning gear?  ; )

> Eventually someone will have the right combination of technical
> expertise, scientific knowledge and determination to crack the
> secret of the Deyo-chip transponder. (I'd put my bets on the

Eventually, by which time a new TL16 or 17 improved version has been bred.
Where that one gets cracked, where a better one is bred.  Etc etc etc

<snip>
> All the above takes is a TL13 computer (virtual realities), a shipment

I'll bet TL13 can only fool TL15 in very few instances (if any), on the
technical/non-sophont level anyways.

> I wonder - how smart are Deyo chips? How much information are
> they supposed to have access to? They are deliberately dumb,
> they may only know how to say "I'm an untampered Deyo chip,
> installed in a ship with this unique Imperial registration number".

Every transponder had both a Deyo chip and a control chip (& a larger memory
chip both of these were attached to).  The transponders control chip was
compared to the information just received.  If someone does finally get in a
noodle w/ the programming what are the odds that the control chip can't tell
the difference?  Remember, the chips were supposed to have a reliable
mutation.  Say a psi w/ computer empathy does successfully fiddle w/ a Deyo
transponders info.  Any other tranponder will be able to tell that this one
has not 'reliably' mutated as it should have.  This returns the "False" ping
when squawked.  

Note that Survival Margin does discuss the possiblity of malfunctions and such
on pg70 (to answer your other post about surges, damage, etc).  A "False"
squawk (or no transponder chatter at all) just means there must be further
investigation.  In wartime, in a warzone, expect to be destroyed.  In
peacetime, you should be luckier (assuming teh Emperor's Cruiser isn't coming
by).  An authenticated squawk could well be an enemy, but the crew does know
that the transponders cannot be deceived.

> Or can they rattle off every ship they've ever squawked, how long
> they were in normal space in which system, etc?

Actually they rattle off indefinetly (except i'll grant and accept the mute).
The squawk is only for the benefit of the ships crew (and gives the registry
info off the BBs memory chip).  It's during the "conversation" that a
transponder learns whether it's chatting w/ an authentic transponder.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:34:12 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

> The Virus didn't need the transponders to take over a computer; they could

No, that was just the simplest and most widespread method of infection.

> use other communication devices or even just close proximity(I've always
> assumed that some of their powers were psionic in nature). The transponders

Certainly through other commo devices or direct computer input (datafeeds,
uploads, etc) but... Uh...  Close proximity??  I've never heard anything of
the sort.  Do you have a source on that, Hans?

> were supposedly the reason why the Virus spread so fast as it did. Low-tech
> computers got infected too, but they were too small to allow the Virus to go
> active.

Low tech comps could only have an "egg" planted in them and couldn't host an
electronic meta-identity (Virus).  They were dumb and behaved like todays
computer viruses (though more advanced, naturally).

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:38:35 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

>
> >> How many times have people found ways around supposedly secure systems?
>
> >Find a way around the Deyo transponders as presented and tell us all about it.

I just wanted to ask... "Why would anybody WANT sentient or semi-sentient ship?"

Sure, transponders are needed and presumably you can make a transponder that is not
a Deyo chip (especially since we have them now).  But who wants a ship that gives
you lip when you give it an order? Didn't anybody learn anything from HAL going
bonkers? Dave?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:48:13 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

Leo Hale wrote:
> 
>      Look, quit trying to analyse it.  Webber says it works, the books are
> great, i.e. leave it alone.
> 
> Leo

But that would get me thrown out of the Apprentice Gearhead Society...
:-(

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|JOLT|
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:07:51 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Breaking Encryption

>Please inform me of how PGP can "be broken". I suspect Phil Zimmerman, RSA
>Data Securities, and the NSA would love to know as well.
>
Simple: PGP is anscheme that requires a key to decrypt, and the key size is
limited. Simply put a copy of the document (still encrypted) onto a
read-only segment, and run the document through each possible key until you
get a readable result. For automating, until you get hits on a dictionary
grep compare.then sort though the decryted ones with hits til you get an
intelligible message. the NSA already does it, according to an interview
shown on Discovery channel last weekend. THey have a decryptor dedicated to
doing just that, and it takes a few hours for shorter keys, through a few
days for 128 bit RSA.


>I'm not sure how to respond to your claim that "anything concieved by man
>can be bested by man". People have been conceiving of perpetual motion
>machines for centuries, yet no one has even been able to meet this concept,
>let alone "best" it. If someone comes up with an encryption method that
>takes, say, twice the lifetime of the universe to decode through brute
>force would you say "oh yeah, well I can conceive of one that takes *ten
>times* the lifetime of the universe to decode"? At some point the gains
>made is not worth the effort expended.

at present, the thing about encrytion is the combination of caputring and
recognizing encryted messages, since most really important events are
double or tripple encrypted... so you need to know what constitutes
"Intelligible" at each stage.

ForEx: One use code pad, combined with numerical code-book, combined with
128bit    Electronic encrytion. You have to know the type of output to
expect from the combined codebook and one-use pad to blind decrypt the
128-bit ee. If you've caputured the code book, but not the one use pad, you
might not be able to decrypt. But, it is possible, at east in theory, to
decrypt if you have both time, and enough different messages. One-use pads
are the current "High Tech" in encryption... any stable key system is
crackable, assuming you can FIND the message amidst "the noise and Haste",
and know the type of algorhythms available to the encryptor.

And, despite the calims that Publick and Private keys cannot be cross
hacked, it is and can be done, given enough samples, as they DO use stable
algorhythms. You just need to know how it is changed. This can be done by
intercepting and brute decrypting several messages going each away, to
espablish the two keys.

The current problem is that many decryption methods require multiple
messages be decrypted to be assured you have a valid message decoding
scheme, by proving that it is THIS "probable decrypt " or the other, as the
same key was used on a, b, c, and d messages with success.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:44:30 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Transponders

>
> Unless, of course, YTU penalizes people for travelling faster than
> the Imperial mail, and makes them stick to flight plans and scheduled
> stops. Be kind of like the role-playing opportunities of a passenger
> jet crew, wouldn't it?  :)

If you adventure within the mail routes then you have to play by their rules.  If
you adventure outside the mail routes then they aren't there to stop you (they
aren't there to help you either).  Its also a bit like international shipping.
Your papers need to be in order before you leave and when you arrive.  If they
aren't then you're stuck in port until they can be cleared up.  However, when
you're out at sea, nobody checks your paper.  So, if you drop out of the xboat
route, you should expect to have a wait until your paperwork comes through once
you get back.  Could be a long time if you have to send a request upstream to
get  it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:17:24 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Douglas Glatz wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> a.  Instead of putting all this terribly expensive Fire Control equipment on
> ships, just install a transponder 'pinger' in the warheads of missiles.
> Fire and forget - the missile will start pinging the transponder, the box
> will respond and the missile gets a new fix on the target.  (For more fun
> and kicks, install another Deyo box in the missile and let the two talk it
> up...)
> 
Now _that's_ a smart bomb!  ;-D

<<more snippage>>

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|JOLT|
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:24:18 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

dberry@hooked.net wrote:
> 
> At 01:17 AM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >The whole idea of a heavy transport plane full of gun turrets being mad
> >at me would be enough in and of itself, thank you.
> >
> >However, considering that Spectre may get shot at itself - another maxim
> >of combat: Tracers work both ways. Spectre may be able to make
> >a solid wall of righteous anger from on high against a known enemy
> >position, but I'll bet she doesn't dodge all that well.
> 
> Having seen a Spectre operate at Ft. Irwin, I don't think I'd want to be in
> the region with my dinky little M-21.
> 
Reminds me of the war story one of my sergeants told me about Grenada
(before I became a sergant and started collecting war stories in Panama
and the Gulf):

He was out and about during the early days of Urgent Fury, when a sniper
started shooting in his area.  He used the most powerful manpackable
weapon to take out the sniper:  an AN/PRC-77, with a CEOI listing
someone sho could talk to the zoomies.  In other words, he called in an
air strike on the sorry SOB.  C'est la guerre....

<<snip>>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:37:34 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Rocketry 100 (long)

     By remembering the all time great maxim.  Any advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.  Just hand wave it and say it works and how
in your Traveller universe.  That's what I did when I wanted to incorporate
"StarTrek" type ships and equipment into a game I was running.  I just said
it worked and how and let the characters work it from there.

Leo




"Douglas Glatz" <douglas@teleport.com> on 09/30/98 01:18:42 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Rocketry 100 (long)




>     Look, quit trying to analyse it.  Webber says it works, the books are
>great, i.e. leave it alone.
>


But if we don't analyse it, how can we create the rules to replicate it in
our campaigns?

;)

douglas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 10:23:00 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Transponders

At 16:29 30/09/98 -0400, Ethan Henry wrote:

>And, chances are, that you can drive around with one that you made 
>in your garage and no one will ever care. The authorities don't
>become curious about things they don't notice.

The authorities round here are actually pretty much certain to notice (at
least round here) sooner or later. A few months back a friend of a friend
got caught driving without a licence because a cop ran his plates and found
that the car was owned by someone who was currently disqualified and pulled
him over. At the time he was driving under the speed limit in a properly
licenced and warranted car, doing nothing out of the ordinary.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:44:15 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

At 05:34 PM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> The Virus didn't need the transponders to take over a computer; they could
>
>No, that was just the simplest and most widespread method of infection.
>
>> use other communication devices or even just close proximity(I've always
>> assumed that some of their powers were psionic in nature). The transponders
>
>Certainly through other commo devices or direct computer input (datafeeds,
>uploads, etc) but... Uh...  Close proximity??  I've never heard anything of
>the sort.  Do you have a source on that, Hans?
>
>> were supposedly the reason why the Virus spread so fast as it did. Low-tech
>> computers got infected too, but they were too small to allow the Virus
to go
>> active.
>
>Low tech comps could only have an "egg" planted in them and couldn't host an
>electronic meta-identity (Virus).  They were dumb and behaved like todays
>computer viruses (though more advanced, naturally).

It always bothered me about the Virus.  If the chip, with the coding was
the lifeform, then the silicon could be considered the "body"  If that body
is kept within the transponder, the data pathways would still be nothing
more than an avenue of communication, not travel as the chip would still
need to electronicly breed with other chips to spread the virus.

Basicly, you would have a lot of paranoid transponders that could see and
talk to the outside world, but not influence it in any way.

Unless the virus is an electronic lifeform that has no material form.  This
would then imply that it may have the ability to infect a living host...

I just having touble justifying its existance or for that matter, based on
what I've read, its believability.

Just my $.02

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:45:36 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

TravelrTNE@aol.com on 09/30/98 02:34:18 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  re: Transponder's true nature




>Actually they rattle off indefinetly (except i'll grant and accept the
mute).

>Gary


          Very much like the people talking about this subject.  It has
      been covered more than once by now, and you are all saying the same
      thing only differently.  Lets move onto a new topic please.  60 posts
      a day on the same theme is great, unless everyone is saying the same
      thing over and over.  Transponders work, are not able to be operated
      on by your normal Joe Smoe, can be muted in some way, and will cause
      you troubles at some time in your career as a ship captain enough
      said.



Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:31:52 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: RW US aircraft

> The navy has armed fixed-wing aircraft, but I don't think they have armed
>helicopters aside from sub-hunters.
>- - Joseph

don't know it they are still in service, but the US Navy has had armed
rotary wing aircraft: the SeaCobra attack helo. AFAIK, they are no longer
in navy hands. The navalized blackhawk also has air-to-air and
air-to-ground capability.

Ob trav: How much space to surface capability does an ImpNavy fighter
squadron have?

also: do you use the rampart as a high speed space capable air-raft or a
true space fighter (both designs have been seen in cannon in different
editions, IIRC).


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:51:17 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: GURPS Compendium II

>
>     I think SJG site said that the Compedium II will be available in
>either November or December.
>
>Leo

It's been out for quite some time... I've had mine since before summer...

Those rules from space most needed for GT just happen to be in C II, except
world generation. Such as: 0-G rules, society culturale ratings
explanations, SOCS. Plus the mass ground combat rules.


IMHO, To run GT, what you MUST HAVE to run effectively:
	GT
	Basic Set
Highly Useful for the GM:
	Vehicles 2nd
	Compendia I & II
Useful, for players who won't GM:
	Basic, C I, and GT
Useful for the group to have available:
	Ultratech
	High Tech (if planning on lower-tech adventures)
	Space
May be nice to hae available to the group, but really out there:
	Biotech
	Cyberpunk (for the hacking rules)
	Psionics (if you're gonign  to run extensively in Zho Space)

I have a few complaints about GT:
	1: the attribute conversion fomula(e) is(are) missing.
	2: JOT is not in the skill conversion list, even though it is in
		a sidebar at the start of said list.
	3: The "Ship Patron" fomula doesn't seem to match my workups from
		the fomula, and not all the ships shown have listed costs.
	4: The Ship Patron formula doesn't allow for non-starships.
	5: There is no discussion of JIS rank insignia (minor peeve).
	6: Modular Ship Design doesn't include (Gurps) TL 11 ships, nor
		TL 9 or TL 13, tho those two are less important.
	7: TL conversion  and the layout of the UPP are not in the
		section on UPP's.
	8: TL's shown on Library Data entries are in Traveller TL's, altho
		never specified as to which is in use. One is missing
		a TL entry at all.

Overall, tho, I'd reccomend it.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:11:23 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Compendium II

     Yes Compedium II has been out for a time, but they had a run on it and
no longer have it in stock, nor do many FLGS.  The new print run was what I
was refering to.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:53:31 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS:Traveller in Boston

Mark Urbin wrote:

> Wahhh! What FLGS in Boston had it?  My FLGS in Marlborough claimed they
> didn't have it yet.

I usually run down to the Compleat Strategist on Mass. Ave.
You might also try Pandemonium in the Harvard Garage in Cambridge.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:50:04 -0400
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Annoying Omission

What about the table for the conversion of the characters (page 125 I think
(I don't have my book with me at this point?)). <grin>  It wouldn't be
traveller without an errata...

By the way, beautiful work to all of you.  You did a great product that
reminded me very much of the stuff you used to produce at GDW.

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca


At 12:57 30/09/98 -0600, Loren Wiseman wrote:
>One of the most annoying mistakes in GURPS Traveller (which we will correct
>in the second printing) is the inadvertant omission of Rob Caswell's name
>from the art credits. Rob sold us second rights to a lot of his previous
>Traveller art and we jumped at the chance to include his work in the book
>
>I have already apologized to Rob and he has accepted (all he asked was that
>we buy time on the Goodyear blimp during the next Super Bowl to rectify the
>mistake : )
>
>This error is all the more annoying because one of Rob's pieces appears on
>the credits page itself, which means that his signature appears on the
>page, but not his name.
>
>Also note that I am the designer of Eagles, not Marc as the sidebar on page
>61 mistakenly states (don't ask how it happened...).
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>     Traveller Line Editor
>     Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>     SJ Games
>     LKW@IO.COM
>     (512) 447-7866 VOX
>     (512) 447-1144 FAX
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:08:18 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Official vs. alternate

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:09:16 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:12:32 -0400
>From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
>Subject: Official vs. alternate
>
> 
>> GURPS Traveller *is* the "official" world now. Check their author want
>list ...
>> they've got masses of Traveller stuff there, and nary a mention of the
>rebellion
>> and virus. I think it is extremely likely that rebellion and virus are
>dead for
>> all time. Ergo, whether people like it or not, the Classic Traveller
>background
>> is *again* the "official world".
>
>Funny, it SAYS "alternate timeline" in there...Hmm..either my old-timer
>eyes are playing tricks on me, or I need to go watch a few Sliders episodes
>to refamiliarize myself with the concept...

Unfortunately, haven't seen GTrav yet ... its supposed to be arriving in Sydney
this week, and I hope to pick it up on my weekly trek to Napoleon's (my FLG+MBS)
this afternoon, so I'll take your word for it.

However, all I was trying to say is ... if all that GURPSTrav is going to
publish is for this "alternate" timeline, and if all the other stuff is out of
print, it hardly makes any difference whether its an "alternate" or not. All the
*new* gamers (and lets hope there are hundreds, nay, *thousands* of them) new to
Traveller won't *care* about what the "original" might once have been. Ergo, by
stealth, effectively the alternate will displace and replace the original.

Of course, if Mark brings out T5 *and* it is set in Rebellion/Virus era (and,
lets face it, it was fairly obvious that T4 as published by IG was almost
certainly never going to revisit Virus or Rebellion), then and only then will I
be wrong.

This has nothing to do with what you or I (or anyone on the list) think of
Rebellion (which I liked a lot) or Virus (which I loathed), it has nothing to do
with whether you consider them "canon" (or merely "canon fodder") or not, it has
to do with the practicalities of the situation.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #865
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, October 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 866



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Breaking Encryption 
Re: [deckplans] Re: GURPS Trav deckplans
Re: Transponders
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Breaking Encryption
What you need for GT
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Money
Re: Spectre
GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: RW US aircraft
Re: Breaking Encryption 
RE:  Rocketry 100 - Long range PDMs rules ver 1.00 part one (Long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:19:29 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Metrics in the 3rd Imperium

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>Want to bet?  The mile in essentially it's current length goes back
>*two* millenia. I suspect the pound is quite close to the Roman
>"librum". In fact, you'll find that *most* non-metric measurements go
>*way* back, with only a few percent varaince over the centuries.

The smallest Roman measurement, like the smallest Greek, was a
finger's-breadth (digitus). As in Greece and elsewhere, 4 of these formed
a palm, and 4 palms made a foot, so that there were 16 digiti to a foot.
The foot itself (pes) was normally of 29.57 cm, though in the provinces we
also find the pes Drusianus, named after Nero Claudis Drusus (38-9 BC),
stepson of Augustus, which had a length of 33.3 or 33.5 cm; it was really
of far greater antiquity than Drusus. From teh third century AD there was
also a short foot of 29.42 cm. If one was dealing purely in linear
measurement, then 5 pedes made a passus; 1000 passus made a mile (1.4785
km). ["Reading the Past", O.A.W. Dilke]

So, a fair difference (1.48 vs. 1.6).

>
>And the clincher. Standard railroad gage (spacing between rails) is
>based on the wheel spacing of wagons. The spacing of wagon wheels was
>based on the existing ruts in the roads. And that goes back to the
>spacing of wheels on Imperial Roman chariots! I am *not* making this
>up.

I'd like to see a reference to this. (Not implying that you made it up,
but not necessarily trusting your source.) I know of a few different
gauges for railways, so I'm not convinced that wagons were that
standardized.

>
>In the case of the wheel spacing, it's easy to see why the measurement
>persisted. But many measures of length, volume or weight tend to
>persist because they are used in commerce, and both merchants and
>customers have a vested interest in them stayuing unchanged. Or rather,
>they may want changes, but in *opposite* directions. The same goes for
>measures used in determining land boundaries, or in tax collection.

In the same way that the Americans have stayed with the Imperial gallon?

Seriously, units stay when a society is stable. Political change can often
change units. One reason the French created the metric system was because
different parts of France had different standards for measures. The same
applied to England as well (persistance of local units). 
>
>Oh yeah, the hour, minute, second and degree go back to Babylonian
>times.... :-)

True. 

But we no longer use cubits, gar, sar, iku, br, sila, bn, nigida, or gur
to name a few.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:15:27 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

> Unless the virus is an electronic lifeform that has no material form.  This
> would then imply that it may have the ability to infect a living host...

Bingo...reread the relevant section of the TNE manual...they describe
Virus as 'a life form that inhabits electronic systems like a fish
inhabits water' They cannot exist outside of a electronic circuit, but
given a physical connection they can move from one system to another.
The Virus was derived from a strain of Cymbeline chip that had evolved
to impress it's circuitry on others from a distance, using
electromagnetic signals. It used the transponders as a way to get into
the ships system, as the transponders were a highly sophisticated, yet
'unknown' computer system on board most starships. 

Sadly, the critical sources for the description and evolution of the
Cymbeline chips and Virus are all out of print: TNE, Survival Margin,
and Adventure 13:Signal GK. The latter has the most complete description
of the 'biology' of the chip lifeform, and as the root of the whole
idea, makes the rest of it make more sense. 

> I just having touble justifying its existance or for that matter, based on
> what I've read, its believability.

This is another one of those forbidden near-c pirate subjects on the
list. People tend to either accept the concept enthusiastically or
reject it violently.

In retrospect, calling it Virus is what lead to the problem. 90% of the
people saw that term and leapt to the wrong conclusion: that it was some
form of computer virus, a really sophisticated program. It isn't. Think
of it in biological terms: Virus = Ebola.

Worse...Virus = Flu. We know a hell of a lot about the influenza virus,
but we still have no way of preventing a new mutant strain coming out
just about every year. Or tell how bad it'll be or what it'll look like.

The scientists at Research Station Omega were playing with the
equivalent of a hardy, aerosol dispersed Ebola strain, with the skills
and knowledge base of a pre-Pasteur or better a pre-Jenner biologist.

They were having the same problem getting their heads wrapped around
something that lived _in_ a circuit but _wasn't_ the circuit that lots
of people are having on the list.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:30:47 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

dberry@hooked.net writes:
>For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
>GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
>supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold.

Yup.

I've got GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition) and GURPS Space, as well as GURPS
Uplift (I purchased the others to use Uplift). I was pretty cheesed to
discover that (a) I'd have to lay out for a couple more books to really
get everything I needed, and (b) for some reason the 'flavour' of the
system was very bland. (Mind you, some of the later could be my having to
stop and translate most of the numbers before I could feel them. I can't
really enjoy a French novel, either, even if I can follow the action.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:16:07 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption 

> >Please inform me of how PGP can "be broken". I suspect Phil Zimmerman, RSA
> >Data Securities, and the NSA would love to know as well.
> >
> Simple: PGP is anscheme that requires a key to decrypt, and the key size is
> limited. Simply put a copy of the document (still encrypted) onto a
> read-only segment, and run the document through each possible key until you
> get a readable result. For automating, until you get hits on a dictionary
> grep compare.then sort though the decryted ones with hits til you get an
> intelligible message. the NSA already does it, according to an interview
> shown on Discovery channel last weekend. THey have a decryptor dedicated to
> doing just that, and it takes a few hours for shorter keys, through a few
> days for 128 bit RSA.

Wish I'd seen that show.  Thing is, though, current PGP keys have 1024 or 2048 
bit keys.  Each bit *doubles* the keyspace the computer has to search through, 
so a 1024 bit key ought to keep the NSA busy for a month or so.

> ForEx: One use code pad, combined with numerical code-book, combined with
> 128bit    Electronic encrytion. You have to know the type of output to
> expect from the combined codebook and one-use pad to blind decrypt the
> 128-bit ee. If you've caputured the code book, but not the one use pad, you
> might not be able to decrypt. But, it is possible, at east in theory, to
> decrypt if you have both time, and enough different messages. One-use pads
> are the current "High Tech" in encryption... any stable key system is
> crackable, assuming you can FIND the message amidst "the noise and Haste",
> and know the type of algorhythms available to the encryptor.

That's the thing.  Is the NSA gonna wanna spend a month or two to decrypt 
messages from my girlfriend to me?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:35:45 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: [deckplans] Re: GURPS Trav deckplans

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kagehira@aol.com <Kagehira@aol.com>
To: deckplans@egroups.com <deckplans@egroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 2:58 PM
Subject: [deckplans] Re: GURPS Trav deckplans


>In a message dated 9/30/98 12:49:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>Letterworks@citnet.com writes:
>
>> According to the "Creating Deckplans" side bar a 'space'
>>  from the design system equals 4 hexes. Ok, but when you look at the
bridge
>>  discription (in the Starship Operations section) they state that a Basic
>>  Bridge (1 space/4 'yards') contains 5 workstations and a Command Bridge
(2
>>  spaces/8'yards') contains 10. Concidering that a hex is equivalant to 1
>yard
>>  I find this awfully cramped.
>
> Maybe needs an errata fix.....
> If the five workstations are manned by one person (possibly two) I can see
it
>for a Basic Bridge. If they are manned by one person each, than it just
>doesn't work.
> As for the Command Bridge, yeah right. 'Skipper of the ISS Guppy reporting
to
>work."
> You might also need to go to the GURPs Vehicle book to see how they came
up
>with that design.
>


Well the module table lists a crew rating of 1-5 for the Basic Bridge and a
crew rating of 1-10 for the Command Bridge so I assume they are talking
about MANNED work stations.

I must admit to an error however in my earlier post (and I attribute it to
lack of sleep or Very poor eyesight!) Looking at the table again today I
realized I'd used the 1 space for the Basic Bridge which is  the listing for
a cockpit (much more reasonable). The TL10 and TL 12 Basic bridge is listed
as having 2.5 spaces or 10  yards so I can buy that for a crew of 5. However
the TL10 Command  Bridge IS 2 spaces or 8 yards while the TL12 Command
Bridge is 5 spaces or 20 yards (a much more reasonable size in my mind). My
fix is to use 5 spaces for both TL 10 AND TL 12 Command Bridgesand assume
the 2 was a misprint.

When I got home from work and started re-checking my work sheet against the
book I did one of those head smacking numbers. There's still an error (I'm
pretty sure) since I can't see a TL 10 Command Bridge being SMALLER than a
TL 10 Basic Bridge, but it's a much smaller error than I origanally thought.

In those immortal words... " I'm sorry... Never mind." as I drift back into
the primordial ooze from which I came.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:17:15 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponders

> > Think of the transponder signal as the equivalent of a licence plate. If
you
> > don't have one, the authorities are very likely to become curious. If you
use
> > one that dosen't exist, the authorities are very likely to become curious.
> > If you use one that dosen't belong to a ship of your type, the authorities
> > are very likely to become curious. If you use one that belongs to a ship
> > that is supposed to be somewhere else, the authorities are very likely to
> > become curious. And if you use one that belongs to a stolen ship, the
> > authorities DEFINITELY will become curious!
> 
> And, chances are, that you can drive around with one that you made
> in your garage and no one will ever care. The authorities don't
> become curious about things they don't notice.

A TL 15 Computers can probably notice every transponder squawk and spit out a
list of "curiosity arousing" ships in the vicinity faster than the IN patrol
ships' gunners blink their eyes.  Why take chances w/ internal security?

> If you have a transponder that comes from a stolen ship on the
> other end of the Imperium that matches your type of ship, you'll
> probably get away with it for quite a while.

Only as far out as you are from the news.  As Hans has pointed out, a rational
courier network (as opposed to a purely random one) makes it much more likely
any noteworthy information (such as a most wanted list and stolen multi-MCr
ship) can beat any civilian ship out there.  J-4 Xboat, J-6 military courier
vs J-2 far trader/scout. 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:17:13 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> >None of those 'officials' can open the black boxes.  In fact, no one can
> >(w/o destroying the chips inside).
> 
> No, but they must be able to program them. Which is all that's needed for
> this purpose.

They are "programmed" (actually taught) by "educated" chips at the lab where
they're bred (and also tested).  The only place anyone has access to the chips
w/o a black box around them is in this place (I hypothesize a very limited
#... indeed only one IMTU.  Robot construction and assembly.  There are people
who supervise the testing and making sure the robots are running right).
Needless to say there was very high security and intelligence here.

Installing a ship is where it's told what ship its being installed in, who the
captain is, etc etc.  This information is *never* forgotten or overwritten.
The black box is installed in the Ore Reaper, Captain Odren Tellbar, Vras
(0738/Nicosia/Old Expanses), #3.1416... ,...etc etc.  Good ol Odren decides to
skip payments or maybe falls victim to the dastardly Enor the Sunbeard.  There
is no way to ever make the Ore Reaper say it's the Googolorpian Dream or that
it's home port was originally Nemyer (1235/Sarid/Old Expanses).  Well it will,
the squawk will just register it as the Googolorpian Dream, formerly the Ore
Reaper.  Ditto for Captain, home port, etc etc.  Thus, they are unforgable.
Their histories and installation place, registry #, Captains are never
forgotten.  The Black Box keeps a running and complete history on its memory
chip (burned on it by the IFF chip in the same method of the Cymbeline
predators). All of the previous information will come up on an identity
squawk.

> >There is no access to the chip except where they breed the chips and
> >assemble the black boxes. I presuppose there are a limited number of these
> >facilities (if even more than one). Needless to say these *must* be heavily
> >protected from both espionage and corruption.
> 
> OK. We'll assume that you can't use a transponder chip to breed new chips.
> It would be a sensible precaution to make the end product incapable of
> breeding and have special breeders only at a few locations. Let's
distinguish
> between them by calling them 'breeders' and 'blanks'. In how many places
> would there be breeders? This is undefined and the possibilities range from
> one in each place where you can register a ship to a single central place.

Noone can get in to get a chip out to breed for it, so the points moot.  Even
if an SDG-313F chip was acquired outside the black box, if it was further
bred, there's every likelyhood its slow and reliable mutation would be
different from the authentic chips (and thus stand out and result in a "false"
squawk from authentic chips).  

The transponders are in black boxes and delivered to starports in bulk.  When
installed in a ship, they're told what ship they're installed in,
identification/registry, etc etc.  This info is never forgotten nor
overwritten, but a complete running history is kept.   There is the
possibility of putting an ill-acquired black box in a ship and programming the
name, etc, but this never changes, either.  They can keep killing their
transponder and replacing it, but will get heavily investigated if found
running w/o a transponder or w/ an id of a stolen black box.  Every authentic
black box tells the truth.    Fakes are recognized as such by the authentics.

>...the chip itself can only tell where it's been and what it's been up to.
>They can't "lie" as the DGP style transponders do. The military ships (and
>all, according to a justifiable "canon" argument) just got a mute button.

> >>accepting  --  no, make that: 'absolutely refuse to accept'  --  the
> >>unforgable Deyo chip transponder. A couple of others are: 1) The dates
> >
> >Do you have even the faintest desire to accept them?  Have you ever?
> 
> Not really. Even if they made perfect internal sense they would still be in

Well there you go.  You have no desire for them to be acceptable, thus you'll
convince yourself of reasons why they shouldn't be accepted.

> conflict with previously published material. That alone damns them as far as
> I am concerned. That they are not self-consistent just damns them once more.

They are self-consistent w/ their own descriptions.   I can't do anything but
admit they dont' mesh w/ the Traveller Adventure transponders.  There isn't
much of a difference between pre-Collapse 1086 and 1105 to my campaign set in
post-Collapse, 1202.  It's all history man!  ; )

> >If they want to do business in Imperial space they would use whatever the
> >Imperials required them to.
> 
> I could give you an argument about that. Trade is a two-way street. Take a
> look at some of the recent instances of artificial trade barriers imposed by
> a country here in our Real World. I would expect the Solomani (and the other
> major interstellar empires) to retaliate by forbidding any ship _carrying_ a
> Deyo transponder from trading in the Confederation/Consulate/etc. The

The 3I is larger and more prosperous than any of its neighbors.  The neighbors
(and it's mercantile interests) lose alot more than the 3I (and it's megacorps
and mercantile interests).   Remember the 3I is as much a trade alliance as it
is an interstellar polity.  It's internal trade is far more important than
external. 

> resulting screams of pain from Imperial megacorporations would sweep that
> requirement away pdq. But I suppose one could come up with some story that
> accounted for the Solomani/Zhodani/etc. swallowing it. It's the bit about
the
> Solomani/Zhodani/etc. installing them in their own ships that I can't
accept.

You acknowledge the possibility of them using it for purposes of trade in the
Imperium. For the sake of argument, say the transponders are infallable.  Why
should the foreign polities then use two seperate IFF systems (especially
since their own, lower tech, systems are quite fallable in the method of the
Traveller Adventures' transponders)?  The transponders won't lie for the
Imperials, won't lie to them, won't lie for their other enemies, won't lie for
them.  Maybe they do indeed start breeding programs, only to learn the
Imperial transponders will be able to tell (they'll have a different mutation
rate and return false squawks).

> >...(even assuming these people don't have the highest Imperial security
> >clearance to begin with).
>
> You think that a high security clearance is absolute assurance against
> corruption?

No. Just making a point that a limited number of locations (much less one
location) can be made effectively invulnerable to espionage and corruption.
There would be a massive high security/ supervision / counter-intel /military
apparatus in place.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:34:01 -0700
From: "Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> That's the thing.  Is the NSA gonna wanna spend a month or two to decrypt
> messages from my girlfriend to me?

No, but the NSA wouldn't care about your love letters even if you sent
them in the clear, right? And if nobody cares enough about it to bother
trying to read it anyway, what's the point in encrypting it at all?

I know... just because you can.  ;)

Ben

- --
Brannon "Ben" Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:49:54 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: What you need for GT

There has been a lot of talk about what you need for GURPS Traveller.
I can give you perspective of someone who wrote a GURPS Traveller
article and then GMed it for some years....

All my players ever needed was Basic, and my article only had
a fraction of what GURPS Traveller has in it.

When I wrote the thing, aside from the Traveller books, 90%+
of what I used came from Basic and Space, and I could have
gotten by without space in a pinch.  Once I wrote it, for
GMing I used mostly just Basic.  I used Vehicles to make
up some space ships (which I could have done with the quick
ship design system in G Trav) and Space for some generic
SF roleplaying stuff (Star types, etc.).

One could easily run a game with just Basic.  If you were
determined, you could squeak by with downloading GURPS Lite.
Now that is not to say that other stuff wouldn't be useful,
but if you are a limited budget my advice would be to try
it for a while with Basic until you have a better idea of
what else (if anything) you want.  (If you are on an _unlimited_
budget, my advice is to buy everything with "GURPS" on it, you never
know when you won't want to illuminate your campaign with Elves,
intelligent bunnies, time travelle to ancient Egypt, etc. :-)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:14:47 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

TravelrTNE@aol.com wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> >...the chip itself can only tell where it's been and what it's been up to.
> >They can't "lie" as the DGP style transponders do. The military ships (and
> >all, according to a justifiable "canon" argument) just got a mute button.
> 
Out of curiosity, why _can't_ the chip lie?  After all, it is a life
form, albeit a manufactured one, so it could conceivably be taught to
lie.  (Admittedly, I don't know how one might motivate a Deyo chip to
lie; that's one reason why I'm asking why one can't.)

<<snip>>

> 
> You acknowledge the possibility of them using it for purposes of trade in the
> Imperium. For the sake of argument, say the transponders are infallable.  Why
> should the foreign polities then use two seperate IFF systems (especially
> since their own, lower tech, systems are quite fallable in the method of the
> Traveller Adventures' transponders)?  The transponders won't lie for the
> Imperials, won't lie to them, won't lie for their other enemies, won't lie for
> them.  Maybe they do indeed start breeding programs, only to learn the
> Imperial transponders will be able to tell (they'll have a different mutation
> rate and return false squawks).
> 
Of course, one could just as easily assume that a Solomani (or Zhodani,
etc.) Deyo box would simply be read as having a foreign "accent."  It
would still be considered authentic, since a Solomani/Zhodani/etc.
cross-border trader would have a vested interest in letting the
Imperials know his/her/its transponder signature.

> > >...(even assuming these people don't have the highest Imperial security
> > >clearance to begin with).
> >
> > You think that a high security clearance is absolute assurance against
> > corruption?
> 
> No. Just making a point that a limited number of locations (much less one
> location) can be made effectively invulnerable to espionage and corruption.
> There would be a massive high security/ supervision / counter-intel /military
> apparatus in place.
> 
Such as the one that stopped Aldrich Ames and Jonathan Pollard from
passing any vital information?

> Gary

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:33:08 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Money

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

<snip>
>>>to about 80 cents (GNP/population) to about $4.50 (minimum wage for a

>>>worker with no dependents;
>
>How much does a worker with dependents get for the same work?

the same and they starve

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:33:21 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spectre

Joseph Kimball wrote:

>>>>>
>The USAF response?
>They want to get rid of the things in favor of more zoomies birds!!!
The
>A-10 is the *last* dedicated attack plane in the US arsenal, everything

>else is a zoomie conversion.  Grrrrrr....
>>>>>
>The last I heard (from a guy who was a tank commander only a year ago)
is that
>the army put up such a stink about it, and even offered to TAKE OVER
the A-10
>entirely, that the air force decided to keep them.  Apparently the army
was
>willing to train their own pilots for them and everything.
>The current arrangement between the air force and army on aircraft is
that the
>army can have unarmed fixed-wing aircraft and armed helicopters, and
the air
>force has armed fixed-wing aircraft and unarmed helicopters.  The
marines have
>both armed fixed-wing and helicopters, but not many of either.  The
navy has
>armed fixed-wing aircraft, but I don't think they have armed
helicopters aside
>from sub-hunters.

us Navy folks can launch our helo based torps at surface ships and can
strap a harpoon missle to a helo (but why) if we want to attack ships,
land, or air targets the ship that the helo is assigned to has better
weapons and fire control.  if the land target is too big, we just send
in the marines.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:17:42 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)

Below is a conversion of the Imperiallines Frontier Trader. I would like
very much to have anyone review the conversion and comment since it is my
first such effort in GT. I intend to use this as the basis for my next
deckplan effort and am trying to "get it right!" so shout awy if you see
something wrong with my calculations.
Thanks in advance

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson


GURPS: Traveller
Imperiallines Frontier Transport Type TI
(Converted from The Traveller Adventure)
Basic Tech Level:10
Streamlined
Hull Tonnage: 2000
Sealed
Volume: 1600
Hull Area: 68000
Armor Mass:800
PR: 235
PD:4
Mass: 60
Size Modifier: +10
Jump: 3
Empty Mass: 3512.5
Loaded Mass: 4627
Manuver: 3.98(E)/3.02(L)
Cost: 340.2 MCr

Installed Modules

10 Triple Turrets w/ 3 TL10 Lasers ea. (360-MJ, cyclic rate 1/2, extreme
range)
   Mass:325.25  Spaces:40
Command Bridge  Mass:20.3  Spaces:5
Engineering  Mass:4.1  Spaces:1
223 Hold   Mass:1115 (Loaded) Spaces:223
350 Manuver Drive Mass: 1190  Spaces:350
60 Jump   Mass:240  Spaces:60
400 Jump Fuel  Mass:520  Spaces:400
3 Low Berth  Mass:6   Spaces:1.5
21 Staterooms  Mass:50.4  Spaces:84
4 Utility   Mass:46   Spaces:4
100 ton Vehiclebay Mass:250  Spaces:105


This is a conversion of the venerable Imperiallines Frontier Trader (type
TI) as first written up in "The Traveller Adventure". I am afraid I do not
know exactly who the original design belongs to, the Traveller Adventure is
Copyrighted by Game Designers Workshop. Traveller is copyrighted by Far
Future Enterprises. Authors listed for the Traveller Adventure are Frank
Chadwick, John Harshman, J. Andrew Keith, Marc Miller, and Loren Wiseman. My
thanks to them all.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:53:57 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

At 12:05 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote:

>     When has this not been true for any role playing game.

My copy of CORPS cost me $17 with my store discount, and it's all I've ever
needed.

Doug

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:56:40 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: RW US aircraft

At 02:31 PM 9/30/98 -0800, you wrote:

>don't know it they are still in service, but the US Navy has had armed
>rotary wing aircraft: the SeaCobra attack helo. AFAIK, they are no longer
>in navy hands. The navalized blackhawk also has air-to-air and
>air-to-ground capability.

Take a close look at those Cobras.. they have MARINES painted along the
tail boom.

The USN actually has a healthier attitude towards ground support than the
USAF, with some solid planes like the A-6 and the much maligned F/A-18.
- --

+------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+------------------------------------+
|  111     Embrace Fascism.     111  |
|  |||  The uniforms look cool  |||  |
+------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:28:44 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption 

> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> > That's the thing.  Is the NSA gonna wanna spend a month or two to decrypt
> > messages from my girlfriend to me?
> 
> No, but the NSA wouldn't care about your love letters even if you sent
> them in the clear, right? And if nobody cares enough about it to bother
> trying to read it anyway, what's the point in encrypting it at all?

Some of us don't believe in letting the government collect information without 
working for it.

<grin>

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:24:45 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: RE:  Rocketry 100 - Long range PDMs rules ver 1.00 part one (Long)

Okay here are some draft rules for using long range planetary defence
missiles.  They are intended for use in BL, but I think that they could be
modified to suit nearly any system.  They are intended to allow TL 6-8
worlds who invest enough of their global means in this area to protect
themselves against small to moderate threats.  I assume that the defender
is using conventional rockets with nuclear warheads and active or passive
radar homing, about 3000 km SR).  An example is provided at the end.
Missile design:
I used the figures from a number of sources, including those on Missouri
Archive.  Rather than use the Hull design sequences from FF&S1 I assume
that the structure ratios are :
TL 6 15%
TL 7 10%
TL8 8%
for soliod fuel rockets, plus the mass of engines for Liquid fuel rockets.
This is probably far too high for SF rockets.
Rockets must be able to achieve escape velocity, , and whatever final
velocity is desired, the warhead must have sufficient additional thrust to
allow a 5 degree change of course.  Warheads are in the Megaton range.  I
designed these rules around a size 8 world, 

DETECTION
Before the missile can be launched, the planetary defenses must have a
target lock.  This is provided by a 1 hex SR radar - better if the
technology allows it.  (Assume something like all the large radio
telescopes on earth are arranged as part of a national defence grid, Jodrel
bank etc)  PDM radar detection attempts are carried out first.  Following
this , before any other sensor locks are attempted, LR PD Missiles are
launched (Unlike normal missiles.) 

LAUNCH
To successfully launch a PDM is a DIFFICULT task of RCV operations or
Ships' weapons (MIssiles) at TL6.  This task is AVERAGE at TL 7 and EASY at
TL 8.  If a failure occurs, the weapons cannot be launched that turn, but
the task may be attempted again in the future.  If a CRITICAL failure
occurs, the weapon explodes on, or shortly after, launch, and is destroyed.

PLOTTING
Immediately before they are launched, the target, the hex that the target
will be intercepted in, and the turn on which the interception will take
place, are recorded. The flight path of the missile is laid down at this
time, and must be in one of the twelve cardinal directions, and if along a
hexspine, which side of the hexside that the missile will run along is also
recorded. (Because of their largely Ballistic trajectory and slightly sub 1
G speed, the chance of them hitting anything else are pretty remote, but
see optional rule 1 below)  The missile is placed in the Planets hex facing
the hexside or hexspine it will traverse next, and may be detected and
fired upon normally.

MOVEMENT
Missiles are moved just like normal spacecraft, having their moves
'plotted' in the plotting phase according to their predetermined flight
path, and moved IN the movement phase, unlike normal missiles.  Missiles
whose final velocities are between .6 and 1.3 Ghours move in the following
movement phase.  YThos with velocities less than.6 move every other turn,
those with velocities more than 1.3 and less than 2 move a second hex every
other turn etc.  

TARGET STATUS
The missile is treated as a target of whatever size it is, typically this
will be micro or sub Micro.  It is classed as not micro-evading for
absolute range effects.  (If auto task rules are in effect - and they ought
to be - then with any half-decent sensor and laser defenses, most of these
will be destroyed.)  Nuclear Dampers may be used in the usual way.


DETONATION
If a successful interception occurs, and after surviving any defensive
fire, the missile contoler may attemp to damage the target craft.  To do so
the controler must make a sensor lock (including all the usual modifiers)
based on the planet based sensor at the appropriate level of difficulty, or
using the vessels own missiles own sensor (base level of DIFFICULT)
To detonate the missile within effective range of the target is a
FORMIDABLE task of the appropriate asset.
The difficulty level is modified as follows:
- -2 levels if the target is NOT micro-evading[Note penalties for
microevading are not large simply because over the course of a brilliant
lances turn (half an hour) the  0.1g spent on such manouvers (which have to
be constantly kept up to avoid incoming beam weapon fire - which is all
types of fire in BL)  results in very little deviation from flight path.
Balanced against this is the fact that the hex based BL system reduces an
infinite number of vectors to just a few.]
- -1 level if using a multiple warhead
+1 level if the target successfully evades,(or plus the appropriate numbers
of levels if an oustanding success occurs
Size modifiers do not apply [Note since you are not trying to hit the damn
thing, just get as close as you can, it makes Littlewoods odds whether it
is sub micro or large (a 1million disp. ton spherical ship has a diameter
of only 300m.  I would not recomend firing on any major combatant over
1Megadisp.tons - you might annoy it!).  Any miss is a miss for beam weapons.]

Results of Detonation task:
If a success results, the missile detonates within a d10 (1-10) times 100km
of the target.
If an outstanding success occurs the missile detonates within a d10 (1-10)
times 10km of the target.
If a failure occurs the missile detonates within a d10 (1-10) times 1000km
of the target
If a catastrophic failur occurs the missile detonates so far away as to
have no effet.
regardless of the result place a white out marker in the hex.

Consult the appropriate table to see how many REMS are inflicted by Neutron
and Gamma radiation on the crew.
values are rounded to the nearest 100 REMS

OUTSTANDING SUCCESS TABLE
                   Range in KM
Warhead size 10    20    30    40    50    60    70    80    90    100
1MT         222K  55K    25K   14K   8900 6200   4500  3500  2700  2200
5MT         1.1M  278K   123K  69K   44K  31K    23K   17K   14K   11K
10MT        2.2M  556K   247K  139K  89K  62K    45k   35K   27K   22K
25MT        5.6M  1.4M   617K  347K  222K 154K   113K  87K   69K   56K
50MT        11M   2.8M   1.2M  695K  445K 309K   227K 174K   137K  111K
100MT       22M   5.6M   2.5M  1.4M  890K 620K   450K 350K   270K  220K

SUCCESS TABLE           
                   Range in KM
Warhead size 100   200    300   400   500   600   700   800   900   1000
1MT          2200  600    200   100   100   100   0     0     0     0
5MT          11K   2800   1200  700   400   300   200   200   100   100
10MT         22K   5600   2500  1400  900   600   400   300   300   200
25MT         56K   14K    6200  3500  2200  1500  1100  900   700   500
50MT         111K  28K    12K   6900  4400  3100  2200  1700  1300  1100
100MT        220K  56K    25K   14K   8900  6200  4500  3500  2700  2200


FAILURE TABLE           
                   Range in KM
Warhead size1000 2000  3000   4000  5000  6000  7000  8000  9000  10000
1MT         0    0     0      0     0     0     0     0     0     0
5MT         100  0     0      0     0     0     0     0     0     0
10MT        200  100   0      0     0     0     0     0     0     0
25MT        500  100   100    0     0     0     0     0     0     0
50MT        1100 300   100    100   0     0     0     0     0     0 
100MT       2200 600   200    100   100   100   0     0     0     0

Values are the number of rems caused by neutron and Gamma radaiation (5% of
the total radiation)
K is thousands of REMS
M is Millions of REMS
[NOTE if you want to convert rems back to J/m^2 and account for all the
soft x-rays as well as it effects surfacse structures; multiply by 15.  For
unprotected personbs in space the values would be 20 times higher...]

Find where the dosage is located on the EFFECTS chart, and move a number of
columns to the left based on the AV of the Hull of the craft on the
RADIATION PROTECTION chart.

RADIATION PROTECTION CHART
Material        Armour Value
BCSD        70   140    200   270   340   400   470   540   600
BSD         45    90    140   185   230   280   325   370   420
SD          23    45     70    93   115   140   163   185   210
CI          21    42     64    85   106   128   149   170   192
Comp.L      26    53     80   106	   133   160   186   213   240
Composite   15    30     46    61    76    92   107   122   138
Lt. Alloy    7    15     23    30    38    46    53    61    69
Hard Steel   7    14     20    27    34    40    47    54    60
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Col.Shift    1     2      3     4     5     6     7     8     9


EFFECTS CHART
100  250  500  1000  2500  5000 25K  50K  100K  250K  500K  1M  2.5M  5M
10M  25M  50M  100M
d*    d    D2    D3   D4     k    K    K     K     K     K    K    K    K
K    K    K     K



RESULTS:
d* - all crew tasks are increased by 1 difficulty level due to nausea
unless a frobidable task of leadership is passed by the crew (or
commander), -1 difficulty modifier if good medical facilities exist.
d  - 	all crew tasks are increased by 1 difficulty level due to nausea
unless an impossible task of leadership is passed by the crew (or
commander), -1 difficulty modifier if good medical facilities exist. 10% of
the crew will eventually die withou medical intervention, recovery will
take 1d6 months
D2  - all crew tasks are increased by 2 difficulty levels due to nausea
etc.  90% of the crew will die in 2-12 weeks unless medical intervention
takes place. Recovery may take years.
D3  - all crew tasks are increased 2 difficulty levels.  The crew will die
in 2-5 weeks unless heroic medical intervention takes place.  Recovery may
take years.
D4   - all crew tasks are increased by 3 difficulty levels.  20% of the
crew die in 1d6 turns, the remainder in 2-12 days.
k   - All the crew are incapacitated, death will follow in 24-48 hours
K   - Crew are killed instantly


		
I am still working on the efects on sensors and hull integrity.  for
interest's sake, at 500m meters a 100 MT weapon can vapourise an Av 30 BSD
hull.  at 10 km very little. though it delivers enoughh energy to raise the
temperature of a 1cm thick BSD hull by 2625 degrees K assumin a specific
heat of .2Calories per gram per degree.  I am still looking into the sudden
changes in temperature likely, but I do not know how to do the
physics...something about the Stefan Bolzman constant...

Optional rules,
1) It s possible that if you are in the right place at the right time
albeit inadvertantly, you might hit it.  use the rules above but assume a
base difficulty level to detonate of IMPOSSIBLE

2) at TL 7+ multiple warheads may be used (you will have to figure out what
their mass cost size and propellant requirements are, and if I get time I
will post some)  These are 4 (TL 7) or 5 (TL8) warheads set to form a
pattern around the target. (Imagine a tetrahedron for the first and two
tetrahedrons back to back for the second)  the effect is to reduce the
level of difficulty by one.  additional (at TL 8) you may subtract 1 from
the d10 roll for the range after determing success.[Maybe this should be -1
from the dr for TL7 and -2 from the DR at TL 8]

3) rules for dummy and decoy warheads????

I would be interested to hear any feedback.  This should be read in
conjunction with my original post on nukes of the 18th of September 98.


ODIN 3 TL 6 LR PDM
5 stage solid fuel rocket
5th stage: 5ton warhead+20t fuel +5.4t structure = 29t, dV =
2984/3276(outside atmoshhere)
4th stage: 29t upperstage +30.6t fuel + 5.4 t structure = 65t, dV = 1623
3rd stage: 65t upperstages + 325t fuel + 57t structure = 447t, dV = 3311
2nd stage: 447t upperstages + 1400t fuel + 247t structure = 2094t dV = 2816
1st Stage: 2094t upper stages + 3000t fuel + 530t structure = 5624t, dV = 1944

Fuel mass = 4775.6t = 9.5512 MCr
structure cost [titanium] 843.4t = 1.05425 MCr
5 megaton warhead (probably less than it can carrY) 50 MCr
avionics and sensors plus ground control, silos, cutting edge tech sensors,
etc not costed.
 
THOR TL 7 LR PDM
4stage solid fuel rocket, dV=12884m/s
total mass = 2669t
payload 5t

Freya TL 8 LR PDM
3stage solid fuel rocket
total mass = 1554t dV=12543 m/s
payload 5t






 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #866
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, October 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 867



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: RW US aircraft 
Re: RW US aircraft
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Fighters
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #852
Re: RW US aircraft
Re : Money
GT and Overworked Wierdness
Why encrypt love letters?
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: knife fights
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Auctions was: Re : Money
FFS/QSDS Sheets
Re: RW US aircraft
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:48:39 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: RW US aircraft 

> At 02:31 PM 9/30/98 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >don't know it they are still in service, but the US Navy has had armed
> >rotary wing aircraft: the SeaCobra attack helo. AFAIK, they are no longer
> >in navy hands. The navalized blackhawk also has air-to-air and
> >air-to-ground capability.
> 
> Take a close look at those Cobras.. they have MARINES painted along the
> tail boom.
> 
> The USN actually has a healthier attitude towards ground support than the
> USAF, with some solid planes like the A-6 and the much maligned F/A-18.

I *LOVED* the old A6's.  Those guys (the A6 drivers) pretty much could drop
the load on a dime & give back change.  I imagine the A10 drivers can do the
same pretty much.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:06:25 +1000 (EST)
From: JEFFREY MALONE <j1.malone@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: RW US aircraft

One of the things that I have always liked about the way in which USN/USMC
deal with fire support is the ANGLICO concept...actually get the guys who
fly the birds to do time out in the weeds as FOs/JOSTs.  Bound to get a
far better appreciation of _both_ sides of the fire support issue.

Mind you, there is still the problem in a joint environment of getting the
whole air picture to work together.  As I understand it, the ATO process
is today better by two orders of magnitude than it was during the Gulf
War.  Mind you, one presumes that this is based on secure, robust,
high-bandwith comms - things that are going to be difficult to come by in
a hostile EW environment.

Getting back to Traveller, this reinforces in my mind the mind-numbing
complexity of doing a planetary assault against a prepared defender (in
particular, the Imperial assault on Earth at the end of the Solomani Rim
War), where you need to coordinate not only the traditional operational
environments (air, maritime, sub-surface and land), but also the orbital
and space environments.  Hope your MTO (mission task order) process is up
to it. Brings a whole new meaning to the term Battlespace Visualisation!

BFN

Jeff Malone (aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov) 

*******************************************************************************
Jeff Malone
PhD Student - Department of Justice Studies, Kelvin Grove Campus, QUT
              Kelvin Grove  QLD  4052
Phone:        (07) 3864-3597
Fax:          (07) 3864-3991/2 
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:29:39 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

With any luck Marc Miller will release T5 using identical mechanics to
T4.1, and set it in the same universe as CT.  He will also make the point
that Virus, the rebellion and and CT universes are all alternative
universes, and hopefully wil produce material which can be used firstly in
all of these milleus, and secondly milleau specific material.  Hopefully he
will also come up with conversion  schemes to convert more or less well
between the various editions of traveller.  I prsonally loved the TNE rules
but did not like the milleau.  Sadly I thought that TNE was as dogmatic in
its insistence on the new milleu as GDW themselves had claimed that MT and
CT were in their detailing of every spare parsec in the univers. (see
Challenge 77) :)  I had really hoped to see milleu books for Imperium 1200+
with variants for Rebellion, virus, and no rebellion.  Hopefully, we would
stop having a new rules set with each new addition, and concentrate on
distilling information into library and setting data with LARGE areas left
fro players to detail.  I think T4 had the best approach to traveler,
unfortunately they did not last very long.  I quiver before GT.  Not
another design protocol. 

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 18:53:22
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Fighters

>From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
>Subject: Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)
>
>Mmm ... I think you ought to consider instituting morale roles for fighter
>pilots with this strategy.
>
>"Okay boys, you've got an eight to fifteen percent chance to be effective
>in this fight, and most of you are going to end up dead anyway. Do all of
>you have your estates in order? You do? Well then, go get 'em!"
>

*confused look* as a SFB veteran, I am confused about this 8-15% survival
rate for fighters ... who are you fighting, anyway ? Remember the words of
the Great Hydraxan (or whoever) 'There is a time to live, and a time to die'.

>From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
>Subject: Re: Fighters (High Guard) (longish)
>
>     I'm with you!  If his efficiency is so low he need some real help in
>the fighter area.  The fighters I have designed are 50-ton monsters with 3
>450-MJ spinal lasers that do 1/17-53 which is usually more than enough to
>get through most armored ships and still have enough left to cause some
>damage.
>

Ditzie notes that if a 450 megajoule laser will punch a warship's armour,
then you arent putting enough armour on your warships.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 18:58:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #852

>From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
>Subject: re: Fighters (High Guard)
>
>     Yes I'm sure there are, my previous post never said they could take on
>large armoured ship on their lonesome.  I just said that the fighters I
>have developed do indeed have an effect in combat.  There would be no point
>in creating fighters for Traveller if they were unable to cause any damage
>to ships, better to spend your resources on combat ships that can. 

This isnt strictly true.

As an example, lets assume a small, basic MCr 15 or so fighter - about 20
dtons, a single laser and a couple of missiles. Pulls about 4 gees,
includes a crew of two and a bunk.

Now, as a combat ship, it is useless - it cannot hurt real warships.

But as a customs and excise vessel, or for patrol, or to deal with
ethically-challenged civilians, it's quite cost-effective.

Just because something cant stand in line of battle doesnt mean it wont be
built.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 03:57:03 PDT
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RW US aircraft

>From: dberry@hooked.net
>
>The USN actually has a healthier attitude towards ground support than 
the
>USAF, with some solid planes like the A-6 and the much maligned F/A-18.
>

It was my understanding that the A-6 was being phased out of service.

PZ


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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:42:06 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Money

This has been an interesting thread.

Someone posted a list of proposed G:T books that was apparently on the
Steve Jackson Games webpage.

The proposed 'Interstellar Economics' rulebook could be an amalgam of
Merchant Prince, Pocket Empires, The World Tamers' Handbook (does
anybody know where I can find a copy of World Tamers'?) and the some of
the various house rules I've seen eg. Robert Eaglestone's trade rules.

[ URL http://www.metronet.com/~washi/Tas ]

Some thoughts for comment and criticism :-

i. Cultural attitudes, rather than a separate 'Culture' score, influence
the propensity to engage in external trade.
These are the primary determinants (radical vs. conservative,
enterprising vs. stagnant, xenophobic vs. xenophilic, etc.)
Government type and law level are factored into these (World Builder's
Handbook, Grand Census).

ii. Trade increases with tech level, at least over the range of common
tech levels. (Information is the only valuable commodity once you can
create everything else as required!)

iii. Starport quality varies with, but is not a determinant of, the
propensity to trade in itself (as it is already a significant
contributor to tech level).
The better the starport, the greater the volume of trade that can go
through it. The only limits are world (system) population and Gross
World Product.

iv. A Gross World (System) Product is a primitive marker, but
defining it as we do for contemporary economies (goods + services
produced, or private spending + government spending + investment +
exports - imports) should be more than sufficient.

The credit exchange rate is analogous to the Purchasing Power Parity
index (US = 100 ; all other countries rated on a basket of goods and
services that can be bought in that country with an equivalent amount of
currency).

v. Relating the credit to income, which correlates well with production
of visible goods, is a reasonable baseline.
Alternatives would include pegging the currency to a commodity eg. the
total cost of manufacturing .1 gram of 99.99995% pure iridium at Tech
Level 9 is defined as 1 credit ; or, the gigacredit (10e9) is defined as
the value of the power generated by a TL 9 fusion plant (1000MWe) in a
standard year, etc.

Robert O'Connor
Medico and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:06:04 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: GT and Overworked Wierdness

Just seen another Ontario government ad claiming that I'm a lazy selfish
bugger because I don't want to work an extra 25 minutes a day for free.
Seeing as I've just worked 190 hours in the first three weeks of the
school year, much of that because the government has fired all the support
staff, I'm a bit pissed with the world.  And the toilet upstairs leaked
through the roof and into my office :-(   [1]

There's obviously a plot going on. Clearly Ontario government has been
hijacked by Solomani extremists, and I suspect that the Illuminati are
behind _them_. As we all know the logo of SJG, and as they are clearly in
cahoots with the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance (witness the
recent contretemps over using only parochial units in GT), I've decided we
must stand up for our rights!  (As well as our lefts and middles.)

So, once Delphi arrives (many thanks to Chris Olsen), I will translate all
my Traveller software for the PC. But to preserve our traditional Vilani
heritage, all GURPS Traveller statistics will be given in Sumerian units.
After all, conversion is easy! :-)




[1] Spending $1 million a week on TV ads, but can't afford janitors and
repair workers.  Yrk.  Excuse me while I go wash.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:12:49 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Why encrypt love letters?

"Brannon \"Ben\" Boren" <brannonb@blarg.net> writes:
>No, but the NSA wouldn't care about your love letters even if you sent
>them in the clear, right? And if nobody cares enough about it to bother
>trying to read it anyway, what's the point in encrypting it at all?

Last week I got a panicked call from one of my colleagues. She'd been
writing some very steamy personal letters on the system here, and saving
them in the default directory. Last year that was the private directory of
her own account, but when the brain-dead wombats changed things this
summer they made Word default to a public directory. Anna was almost in
tears that someone might read the letters. I showed her how to move them
to her private directory (not obvious, as the public directory was only
accessible throuhg Word - go figure). If encryption was available, Anna
would be using it now!

And no, I didn't read the letters.  I would _never_ read a lady's pribvate
correspondence. At least, not when she's standing there ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:12:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In mail you write:

> On 09/30/98 at 09:48 AM,  Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz> said:
>
>>The problem with them being singularities is that the ship that
>>'owns' the wedges can use sensors through them because they now the
>>exact geometry and gradient of them. For this to be at all useful the
>>light coming through the wedges can't be slowed up significantly.
>>This doesn't stop more powerful fields being used in the reactors,
>>though.
>
> Through the wedge?  Really?  I thought a couple of tactical
> maneuvers in the books depended on the inability to sense anything
> through the wedge.

On not being able to sense things thru *someone else's* wedge.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:15:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

In mail you write:

>>I find it very useful to remember the truism that there aren't any
>>dangerous weapons, just dangerous people.
>>
>>I don't know how to knife fight. But I'd advise you to make sure that
>>there isn't something similar to what I *do* have some skill in. For
>>example, if I'm sweeping the floor, be prepared to be impaled on a
>>broomstick.... :-)
>
> While I did not specifically address exotic weaponry, I did mention my
> feelings on people who have seen any Jackie Chan movies...

That lets me out...

> ;)

:-}

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:30:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

In mail you write:

> At 07:15 AM 9/25/98 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>> A more promising system is a low-powered radar that tracks bullets back to
>>> their point of origin.  Link that to a minigun.  Pureed Sniper.
>>
>>Miniguns use *way* too much ammo. Maybe an automated grenade launcer?
>>I'd go for a mortar, but there are times when the mortar shell can't
>>reach because of the high angle trajectory.
>
> When I was at Ft. Benning, an USAF type explained the joys of hooking such
> a system up to an AC-130 Spectre.
>
> Using a Mk19 AGL would make sense, but I was thinking of the advantage of
> having a nearly soldi line of tracers reaching the enemy position.

*Nearly* solid? Hell, all the footage I've seen makes them look like a
solid bar of light (much like an old-fashioned Grade-B movie "death ray")

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:40:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: knife fights

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Basic rule of thumb taught to folks defending against a knife.  "You
>> > will get cut."  
>> > You may have some input on to when and where...
>> 
>> Sort of like the advice I got about defending against a dog attack. For
>> medium size dogs, you basicly "feed" them your arm. That gets the arm
>> shredded some, but also means that their mouth is full. You can then
>> use the arm as a lever.
>
> Right you are.  That's what we teach as well.  Specifically, you feed
> them your *off* arm, while going for a weapon with your other arm.
>
> This can produce a moment of confusion for people like me.  I'm
> ambidextrous with left tendencies.  I'm right-eye dominant and shoot
> right-handed, but I fence, bat, and knife-fight left-handed.  So, if
> I'm attacked by a dog, the arm I feed it depends on how far away it
> is when I initially become aware of it, and how fast it's closing on
> me.  If I have sufficient distance, it gets my left arm while I draw
> my Glock with my right hand.  Otheriwse, it gets my *right* arm while
> I draw my SpyderCo folder with my left hand.
>
> Decisions, decisions. :^/
>
> BTW, one philosophy we teach that a lot of our students have a hard
> time internalizing is the concept of tiered sacrifice: "Give up the
> hand to save the arm; give up the arm to save the body.  But above
> all, NEVER STOP FIGHTING."

I rather liked the way it was described to me. 

"Shove your arm down its throat until you can rip its lungs out."

Of course that requires unlikely targeting skills. But it *does* ensure
that the dog is too busy choking and strangling to do anything further
to you. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:15:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

In mail you write:

> At 01:17 AM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>The whole idea of a heavy transport plane full of gun turrets being mad
>>at me would be enough in and of itself, thank you.
>>
>>However, considering that Spectre may get shot at itself - another maxim
>>of combat: Tracers work both ways. Spectre may be able to make
>>a solid wall of righteous anger from on high against a known enemy
>>position, but I'll bet she doesn't dodge all that well.
>
> Having seen a Spectre operate at Ft. Irwin, I don't think I'd want to be in
> the region with my dinky little M-21.
>
>>Or is are Spectre operations restricted to low-threat environments?
>
> The nice thing about C-130s is their engines run cool enough that most IR
> missiles have a hard time locking on to them.  Dropping flares almost
> guarntees no lock.

Hmmm. I wonder what a TL-15 equivalent would be? 

It occurs to me that using a fusion rocket would be a *good* idea.
Sure, it attracts heat seekers. And they get *fried* before they get
close enough. And you just hover over anybody you don't like. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:26:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

In mail you write:

> Reminds me of the war story one of my sergeants told me about Grenada
> (before I became a sergant and started collecting war stories in Panama
> and the Gulf):
>
> He was out and about during the early days of Urgent Fury, when a sniper
> started shooting in his area.  He used the most powerful manpackable
> weapon to take out the sniper:  an AN/PRC-77, with a CEOI listing
> someone sho could talk to the zoomies.  In other words, he called in an
> air strike on the sorry SOB.  C'est la guerre....

There's a 1950s issue of Astounding Science Fiction that has a cover
picture of some sort of museum exhibit of weapons. Stone ax, sword, etc
up to an atomic bomb. And then the final item in the chain, labeled
"the deadliest weapon".

An ordinary manila file folder.

There's a lot of truth to that. I'd say that *knowledge* is number one,
with communications a close second. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:24:32 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Auctions was: Re : Money

On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Robert O'Connor wrote:

> This has been an interesting thread.
> 
> Someone posted a list of proposed G:T books that was apparently on the
> Steve Jackson Games webpage.
> 
> The proposed 'Interstellar Economics' rulebook could be an amalgam of
> Merchant Prince, Pocket Empires, The World Tamers' Handbook (does
> anybody know where I can find a copy of World Tamers'?) and the some of
> the various house rules I've seen eg. Robert Eaglestone's trade rules.

There are a cupple of good auctions going on in rec.games.frp.marketplace
check them out.

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:56:20 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: FFS/QSDS Sheets

I need an assignment for my gifted grade 11 class (age 16). I was
considering having them add controls to Andy's spreadsheets to make them
easier to use. For example, instead of entering 1 for yes, 2 for no, you
would click a pair of radio buttons marked yes and no.  

Two questions:

1) Is this a change people would like?

2) Would someone be willing to check the altered sheets out for accuracy.
(I'd ask Andy, but I want him to keep working on upgrades ;-)


Naturally, I won't release these myself. If there's a demand, I'll send
them to Andy and let him decide.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:12:23 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RW US aircraft

- ----Original Message Follows----
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: RW US aircraft
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:48:39 -0400
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

> At 02:31 PM 9/30/98 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >don't know it they are still in service, but the US Navy has had 
armed
> >rotary wing aircraft: the SeaCobra attack helo. AFAIK, they are no 
longer
> >in navy hands. The navalized blackhawk also has air-to-air and
> >air-to-ground capability.
> 
> Take a close look at those Cobras.. they have MARINES painted along 
the
> tail boom.
> 
> The USN actually has a healthier attitude towards ground support than 
the
> USAF, with some solid planes like the A-6 and the much maligned 
F/A-18.

I *LOVED* the old A6's.  Those guys (the A6 drivers) pretty much could 
drop the load on a dime & give back change.  I imagine the A10 drivers 
can do the same pretty much.
========================

The A10 drivers kick butt.  They operate at LOW altitude (ie below 500 
feet) and the A10 can turn on the change from that dime.  They don't 
have goodies like FLIR, but the techs in the Gulf put a video monitor in 
the cockpit, and hooked it up to the IR sensor on one of the Maverick 
missiles, and, voila!  Homebrewed FLIR!  (at least till you fire that 
last Maverick)  As an engineer, I can say the A10 (and the venerable A6) 
are marvels of design, good range, heavy loads, built like flying brick 
$%!+ houses, able to take it and dish it right back at you.  Hell, the 
gatling fires, IIRC, 1800 rnds/minute of depleted uranium rounds, the 
case and round together is big as my forearm, it'll cut a tank to shreds 
in a heartbeat, besides being able to use missiles and bombs.  I DONT 
want to be caught on the ground by one of these.  Dropping the A10 is 
one of the USAFs worst no brained decisions.  


Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:22:17 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:

>>>None of those 'officials' can open the black boxes.  In fact, no one can
>>>(w/o destroying the chips inside).
>> 
>>No, but they must be able to program them. Which is all that's needed for
>>this purpose.
> 
>They are "programmed" (actually taught) by "educated" chips at the lab where
>they're bred (and also tested)....
>
>[...] 
>Installing a ship is where it's told what ship its being installed in, who the
>captain is, etc etc.  This information is *never* forgotten or overwritten.

You misunderstand me. The above is exactly what I mean by programming. That
information must be entered at the starship registration office. But the
chip have no way of knowing that it is true.

>The transponders are in black boxes and delivered to starports in bulk. When
>installed in a ship, they're told what ship they're installed in,

But the _human_ who installs it may lie to it.

>Every authentic black box tells the truth. Fakes are recognized as such by
>the authentics.

Now I'm going to propose an assumption. It is _not_ canonical and I do not
claim that it is, OK? The assumption is this: The Imperial Navy will
absolutely _require_ a transponder variant that can lie. These special
transponders can be stolen and put on the black market.

>>>>accepting  --  no, make that: 'absolutely refuse to accept'  --  the
>>>>unforgable Deyo chip transponder. A couple of others are: 1) The dates
>>>
>>>Do you have even the faintest desire to accept them?  Have you ever?
>> 
>>Not really. Even if they made perfect internal sense they would still be in
> 
>Well there you go.  You have no desire for them to be acceptable, thus you'll
>convince yourself of reasons why they shouldn't be accepted.

Why would I bother to do that? Since I don't accept them in the first place,
it is a matter of some indifference to me whether they make sense or not and
I can look at the question as a purely mental excersise.
 
>They are self-consistent w/ their own descriptions.

Are not! Waaaah!

And even if they were, it wouldn't alter the fact that they conflict with
other parts of the canon. You may not like the fact that Traveller had a
life before you began playing, but you're going to have to learn to live
with it. The Traveller canon did not start with MT.
 
>I can't do anything but admit they don't mesh w/ the Traveller Adventure
>transponders.

Well, there you are, then.

>>I could give you an argument about that. Trade is a two-way street. Take a
>>look at some of the recent instances of artificial trade barriers imposed by
>>a country here in our Real World. I would expect the Solomani (and the other
>>major interstellar empires) to retaliate by forbidding any ship _carrying_ a
>>Deyo transponder from trading in the Confederation/Consulate/etc. The
> 
>The 3I is larger and more prosperous than any of its neighbors.  The neighbors
>(and it's mercantile interests) lose alot more than the 3I (and it's megacorps
>and mercantile interests).

Try rewriting that with America as the 3I and the rest of the G7 as the
neighbors.

>Remember the 3I is as much a trade alliance as it is an interstellar polity.
>It's internal trade is far more important than external.

So you think that just because 90% of Tukera's trade is inside its own
borders it won't scream like a tigress losing its cubs when the remaining
10% is cut off? Come to that, how much of the Solomani megacorporations'
trade is internal?
 
>You acknowledge the possibility of them using it for purposes of trade in the
>Imperium. For the sake of argument, say the transponders are infallable.  Why
>should the foreign polities then use two seperate IFF systems (especially
>since their own, lower tech, systems are quite fallible in the method of the
>Traveller Adventures' transponders)?

>The transponders won't lie for the Imperials, won't lie to them, won't lie
>for their other enemies, won't lie for them.

Well, the Solomani may not like the idea of a widespread spy network that
tells the TRUTH about their ship movements. But the real crux is: How can
they be sure that the system won't lie for the Imperials? Because the
Imperials solemnly assured them that it wasn't set up to do that? Riiiight...

>>>...(even assuming these people don't have the highest Imperial security
>>>clearance to begin with).
>>
>>You think that a high security clearance is absolute assurance against
>>corruption?
> 
>No. Just making a point that a limited number of locations (much less one
>location) can be made effectively invulnerable to espionage and corruption.

That's why the Russian don't have the atom bomb, right?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #867
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, October 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 868



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Money
Imperial Transponders in other Interstellar States (was re: Transponders true nature...)
Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
re: Fighters
Re: Subject: FFS/QSDS Sheets
Re: Deckplan Fallacies (was :Re: 1,000,000 Colonists
Off topic: RW US Aircraft
Re: GURPS:Traveller in Boston
Re: Transponder's true nature
re: Fighters
Re: Fighters
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #852
Re: Off topic: RW US Aircraft
RE: knife fights

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:27:12 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Money

Charles R Hensley writes:
 Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
><snip>
>>>>to about 80 cents (GNP/population) to about $4.50 (minimum wage for a
> 
>>>>worker with no dependents;
>>
>>How much does a worker with dependents get for the same work?
> 
>the same and they starve

OK. For the purpose of my RPG societies I assume that they don't starve but
they don't have much left over after paying for food and lodging, either.
So I feel justified in using their wages as a basic unit.
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:25:57 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Imperial Transponders in other Interstellar States (was re: Transponders true nature...)

TravelrTNE wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why
should the foreign polities then use two seperate IFF systems (especially
since their own, lower tech, systems are quite fallable in the method of the
Traveller Adventures' transponders)?  The transponders won't lie for the
Imperials, won't lie to them, won't lie for their other enemies, won't lie for
them.  Maybe they do indeed start breeding programs, only to learn the
Imperial transponders will be able to tell (they'll have a different mutation
rate and return false squawks).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Imperial Minister of Trade: I know we've been enemies in the past,
and are still often at odds, but you'll like this product. It's a broadcasting
transponder that you'll have to put in all your ships that trade with
us. No, we won't tell you how to build it. No, we won't give you the
encryption codes - you'll have to trust our word on what it transmits
and records. Oh, and you'll have to give our technicians unlimited
access to your commo arrays and ship's computers and let them
do secret things to make them work. And it'll have to always be
attached to your sensors and computers. It works so well, you'll
want this on _all_ your ships!

Zhodani Ambassador: I'm afraid your people are far too untrustworthy
for us to permit that.

Solomani Ambassador: I'm sorry, that's too much of a security risk for us.

Vargr Ambassador: You Imperials, always trying to control us.

Other Varg Ambassador: Sure! I'll take a hundred of 'em! (All for
the same ship)

Yet Another Varg Ambassador: We declare war on the corrupt
and violent Imperial state!

A Vargr who Claims to be an Ambassador, but is Probably
Just Bluffing though No One Can Be Sure: Give me 100MCr and
my nation will install them.

Hiver Ambassador: What a wonderful idea! While you're at it, here's
some unopenable mysterious boxes you'll need to let us install
on all of _your_ starships...

K'Kree Ambassador: Why are you talking to us?

Aslan Ambassador: Speaks in deep, respectful tones - speaks
the Aslani tongue as a point of honor. Translator renders the
statement down to essential meaning: "F*ck off."


Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:36:44 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts

- ----Original Message Follows----
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:15:08 PST
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

In mail you write:

>>I find it very useful to remember the truism that there aren't any
>>dangerous weapons, just dangerous people.
>>
>>I don't know how to knife fight. But I'd advise you to make sure that
>>there isn't something similar to what I *do* have some skill in. For
>>example, if I'm sweeping the floor, be prepared to be impaled on a
>>broomstick.... :-)
>==============

Well, I've not gotten into this thread, but I have to say, the training 
I've had basically says, know how to use whatever you have at hand, so 
dont be surprised if I meet a burglar with a towing chain in one hand, 
and a rolling pin in the other.  =)  The style?  My mentor calls it 
ninjutsu.  Is it the real ninjutsu?  I don't know, but I do know this 
guy has the most unusual style of fighting I've ever seen, and I know he 
can do some pretty amazing things in a fight.

Jim

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:42:29 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

- ----Original Message Follows----
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:26:27 PST
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

In mail you write:

> Reminds me of the war story one of my sergeants told me about Grenada
> (before I became a sergant and started collecting war stories in 
Panama
> and the Gulf):
>
> He was out and about during the early days of Urgent Fury, when a 
sniper
> started shooting in his area.  He used the most powerful manpackable
> weapon to take out the sniper:  an AN/PRC-77, with a CEOI listing
> someone sho could talk to the zoomies.  In other words, he called in 
an
> air strike on the sorry SOB.  C'est la guerre....
=========================

I've been told a similar story from Vietnam.  My friend was on patrol, 
when they came upon a similar patrol of NVA regulars.  They got on the 
horn, got hold of a flight of F4s whose target had been cancelled.  They 
came in on this "concentration" of NVAs, each dropped 4 500 lb bombs, 
and blew the top off the hill they were on.     =0



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:37:42 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Fighters

Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>"Okay boys, you've got an eight to fifteen percent chance to be effective
>in this fight, and most of you are going to end up dead anyway. Do all of
>you have your estates in order? You do? Well then, go get 'em!"
>

*confused look* as a SFB veteran, I am confused about this 8-15% survival
rate for fighters ... who are you fighting, anyway ? Remember the words of
the Great Hydraxan (or whoever) 'There is a time to live, and a time to die'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Banzai!!

Seriously, the "8 to 15%" number doesn't refer to survival, it refers
to the chance of my example ten-craft fighter squadron doing damage
on a single battle pass. This was in a TL12 environment, versus the
hardest foe to hit, using my alternate Fighter Controller and
Suicide Attack rules. Every round the fighters don't get zapped
(and there should be many, if there are enough capital ships to
shoot at) the fighters get to try again. 

Walt Smith
IMTU Code:  tc++ tm tn t4- ?tg ?tt ru(+) ge+ 3i+() c+ -jt+(-) au(-) ?st
ls(-) pi+ ta- he>+ kk hi as++ va++ dr vr+(++) ne- so+ zh-- da+ sy  0601

Walt Smith
System Manager
Hartwick College
Oneonta, NY
smithw@hartwick.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:02:10 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: FFS/QSDS Sheets

Rob Prior wrote:
> I need an assignment for my gifted grade 11 class (age 16). I was
> considering having them add controls to Andy's spreadsheets to make them
> easier to use. For example, instead of entering 1 for yes, 2 for no, you
> would click a pair of radio buttons marked yes and no.

For the record, this is perhaps the most often requested addition I have
received. And every time, I have politely refused, for two reasons:

a) I am not an Excel expert, and have no idea on how to to it.
b) It breaks the cross-platform nature of the spreadsheet. I've strived to
keep it portable - my only concessions were the excel macros, whihc Simon
wrote.

Now, having said that...if anyone out there wants to add such controls to
their spreadsheets, you have my COMPLETE blessing. I think its a wonderful
idea. And you can consider this statement to be my permission to distribute
such a change if you pull it off...just give me a little credit for making
the first version.

Basically, I consider my spreadsheet to be the "baseline". It supports very
few if any optional rules. I'm doing that on purpose. And again, there are
no real "bells and whistles" either. Again, on purpose. But I strongly
encourage people out there to make their own versions of the spreadsheet and
offer them to the rest of the Traveller community...all I ask is:

a) Note that it is a variant, and explain what the differences are. Thus
people understand what you're doing different from the core rules.
b) Make sure you put your name on it, so people know that I didn't make the
change (thus, I can't be blamed :) )
c) You change it...you support the change...
d) As I said before, leave my name and the names of the other contributers
in it.

Rob...I would be pleased to look at any changes you or your students make.
And if said changes fit into my shceme of doing things, I'd be happy to make
your version the new excel version...if not, you're certainly free to post
it yourself.

For the record folks, the newest version of the spreadsheet should be out
RSN...it won't have the BL/BR stats completely done yet (sorry), but it has
a couple of serious bug fixes. The biggie has been grav compensators and
(ACK) power plants...they were calculating scale efficiences _completely_
wrong. Ack ack ack...

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                         |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/ - AOL IM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AOL IM: CMS AndyA  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+    |
|       vi+ da+                                                        |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+      |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                             |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:32:42 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Deckplan Fallacies (was :Re: 1,000,000 Colonists

Ben Boren Wrote;
>Has anyone noticed that the deckplans in Traders & Gunboats (LBB) have
>nearly ZERO correlation with the tonnages that Book 2 (LBB) says they
>should? Can someone explain where the rest of the bridge is on a
>Scout/Courier? I like the way the plan is laid out, but there is supposed
>to be 20 TONS of bridge there somewhere - 40 squares. Even adding in
>avionics it's nowhere near enough space on the deckplan to account for
>that tonnage. The other ships are just as screwy.
>
>I don't care that much, since I'm not a gearhead, (really, I'm not!), but
>I wondered if there was any reason for this that I am missing.

Traders and Gunboats plans were designed with the 10% "slop rule" - i.e. if
the deckplan matches up to the tonnage of the vessel within 10%, its
acceptable.

On my own deckplans (drawn by hand alas) I often have structures or
sections which do not handily fit into the drawn deckplans (streamlining
fairings, 'wings', pylons or structural bits for example) and I account for
those spaces "off plan", usually as fuel volume.  This tends to free up
more space for the other deck components like staterooms, corridors, Dining
Salons, etc.

Deckplans are more art than science in my book.  That they do not precisely
fit into the proscribed volume requirements in not terribly important to
me.  There are, however, often sections that cannot be expressed by the
deckplans easily.  Their role is to provide an idea of space and
environment for players on their ships and other's ships, and allowing the
GM to decide how long it will take the engineer to reach the engine room
from his or her cabin after the first big rumbling jolt occurs.

Of course, the deckplan volume should be within an order of magnitude of
the correct volume, and preferably within the 10% margin.  As long as its
not the players over-designing their own ship or adding to the cargo or
passenger capacity though, its pretty moot.

Pete


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:16:54 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Off topic: RW US Aircraft

Jim Clem wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The A10 drivers kick butt.  They operate at LOW altitude (ie below 500 
feet) and the A10 can turn on the change from that dime.  <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>	
My brother was marching down a road with his unit when they saw
a blinking light in the sky. All their MILES units went off at once,
_then_ they heard an A-10's engines.

Their CO complained that the simulation hadn't been realistic. The
Air Force obliged with a live-fire demonstration of the same attack pass
(even same pilot, same plane) on that same stretch of road (while it was 
unoccupied, of course).

The entire stretch of road for almost a thousand feet was cratered with
holes about six inches deep.

During that same excercise, my brother was in a control tower for
a small airfield. He watched an A-10 fly by below him - and it was
only a three-storey tower.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:07:58 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS:Traveller in Boston

>Mark Urbin wrote:
>
>> Wahhh! What FLGS in Boston had it?  My FLGS in Marlborough claimed they
>> didn't have it yet.
>
>I usually run down to the Compleat Strategist on Mass. Ave.
>You might also try Pandemonium in the Harvard Garage in Cambridge.
>
>Bloo

But don't bother with Excalibur in Malden Center.  It went out of business
finally.  They had so much old stock (although I'd cleared out their
Traveller stuff long ago) I wondered what, on their floor, they'd been
selling to pay the rent.  CCGs probably.

Aside from them, there is a store called "Your Move Games" on Highland Ave
in Somerville in Davis Square (which is on the Red Line).  Its a small
place on the second floor which is more of place that will order stufff for
you than one to stock a lot.  I be tthey have all GURPS stuff though.

If you are checking the Yellow PAges, realize that Phoenix Games in Medford
is pretty much just miniatures (and no, they have no Traveller Specific
minis at all).  They have few RPGs.

Pete

Whose looked for good game stores in Boston & vic. for a long time.


                      Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"A Good Traveller has no fixed plans and no intent on arriving."
  -Lao Tzu (570-490 BC)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:12:07 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 05:34 PM 9/30/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> And exactly how does it KNOW that is has been disconnected form the comm
>> circuit or the main computer?  What sences does it use?  What instraments?
>
>You tell me.  I'm not an EE.  What will EEs of the 57th century be able to do?
>A "simple" TL-15 feedback doowackey signal?  :::handwave handwave:::
>Connection lost.  Survival Margin just says [after military ships are said to
>have a "mute" button]: "Any attempt to open the box cause the tamper circuit
>to destroy the contents, but simple disconnection from other systems caused
>the same effect.  In order to prevent the use of transponders removed from
>destroyed vessels, disconnection from the main computer or the comunications
>circuits cause the tamper circuit to fire as well."-pg 77.  
>
>Is not possible for even today to have something like that?  Yes, there would
>be counters, but that's another issue.  I see nothing bout turning comm off,
>just "disconecting."  Making it a closed circuit or something to that effect
>once its installed. 
>
>The writers weren't 57th c EEs, and i'm not either. I don't even play one on
>tv.
>

No it is not posible.  Any system built can be spoofed.  The very act of
creating a antispoof system also creates a way to spoof it.  This is a fact.
No unbeatable system has ever been designed.  There are hard to beat systems
but even those are regularly beaten by lone teenagers out to prove how smart
they are.

As for 'anti-disconnecting system', there are several ways to implement this
function and all can be bypassed.  Any 'ping' signal can be forged, any
antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a system
so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI enviroment,
or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to change
the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for dayly
use my normal people foolproof.  The necessary redundancy and ruggedness
that would have to be built into a commercial product would make it
vunerable.  Without this ruggedness you have a system that fails so often
that it is useless.  Technomiricals just do not happen.  Your untouchable
unbeatable box can exist because someone built it.  That it can be built
means it can be rebuilt for a different purpose.  Your argument the it is
not built but taught is not valid sence this teaching is just another form
of signal fingure printing.  The 'simi-inteligent' chips are no more
decurning than an inteligent being with the proper instramentation.  Both
can be fooled.  Niether is foolproof.

>> You keep giving these BBs ESP.  HOW does it do these things?  The BB's
>> perceptions are limited to it's sences and/or instramentation.  What is it's
>> method of verification?  What if the BB was attached not to a real comm unit
>> and computer when it was FIRST installed?  Would think that this was what is
>> to be expected from this ship and just except it?  How could it tell the
>> difference?
>
>I don't believe in ESP. ; )  If not correctly installed, i'd say it wouldn't
>work (if indeed the black box isn't instructed on how a proper connection
>"feels.")  HOW?  Each chip learned and was taught by "educated" chips.   How
>does this happen?  How do we do it?  The Deyo chips are more analgous to
>evolved beings than to computer microchips as we know them today.
>
>I accept that it may not be transmitting (i accept a "mute" button. it was
>stated to be only for military, but i'm convinced its good for civvies too).
>If it's not attached to a real comm, it won't transmit.  If it's not attached
>to a receiver it won't read.  If it's not attached to a real computer, it
>won't have no databanks, main comp to play around in, thus installation won't
>be complete and it won't work (it won't be able to chatter w/ other
>transponders).  You have a transponder that isn't sending when that IN warship
>comes around, you better be prepared to suck vaccuum (or go to a Prison
>Planet<g>).
>
>How it verified information is detailed.  In each transponder there were two
>SDG-313F chips.  One was the IFF that did the talking and squawking and
>chattering.  The other was a control chip.  Both of these were attached to a
>larger memory chip.  Connection w/ the main computer gave access to the ships
>main comp and databanks.  These chips all had a reliable and slow mutation.
>Any alteration would mean a chip could tell another one didn't mutate at the
>same slow and reliable rate.  They were "trained" by "educated" chips right
>out of the lab, where they would be tested for functionality, veracity, etc
>etc.  When talking w/ another chip, it would judge if the other chip was
>authentic or not based on the conversation and comparison w/ its own control
>chip.  When installed, it was told it's registry, id #, ship name, captain,
>blah blah.  Whenever there was a change this was told to it as well.  The old
>information was never overwritten or delted, just added to.  They kept a
>complete running history and the ships resources to do it.
>

A very basic check system.  Nothing new in this discription and nothing
'foolproof'.  Easily spoofed.  Their are far more secure structures than
this.  This is not even up to the current encryption standard for internet
business use and it has been compromized on many occasions.


One thing you keep conveniently egnoring is the effect of this perfect
technology.  If such a perfect system that keeps perfect records of
everything existed then you would end up with a perfect mess.  Complete
record of all ship movments would be available to ANY official in ANY habor
for verification reason.  So you know were everybody is all of the time.
You know where every cargo began it's journey and ended it's trip.  No
secrecy.  No privacy.  NO FREEDOM!  NO SAFETY.  By it's very nature this
system is a deathtrap to the Empire that uses it.  Sure you have near
absolute control of travel but NO ONE want that least of all the Empirial
Inteigence Corps.  Such extensive UNFORGABLE records would make clandestine
operationms imposible for the Empire because there would always be some
'free trader' squawk box that knew that so-and-so or such-in-such was not
true and it would tell everyone it met until the secret was out.  

The USA could eliminate crime by going to 'cred cards' but they will never
do it because they need 'hard currency' and a free market to maintain their
own ability to perform undercover operation.  These 'cred cards' would work
just like your transponders tracking every exchange of value and cross
checking   them with all other trasactons making it imposible for anyone to
do anything without a record existing.  No one wants that.  The transponder
system as you interpret it would bring free trade to it's knees and free
trade is the avowed purpose for the Empire.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:32:51 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: re: Fighters

Walt Smith wrote:
>>Ian Whitchurch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>"Okay boys, you've got an eight to fifteen percent chance to be effective
>>>in this fight, and most of you are going to end up dead anyway.

[snip]

>>*confused look* as a SFB veteran, I am confused about this 8-15% survival
>>rate for fighters ...

[snip]

>Seriously, the "8 to 15%" number doesn't refer to survival, it refers
>to the chance of my example ten-craft fighter squadron doing damage
>on a single battle pass.


Ai ya!

That's why I wrote "eight to fifteen percent chance to be effective," and
used a more squishy "most" figure for casualty rates.

Although, if you take PT boats against cruisers, I would consider "most" to
be a fairly accurate description (especially since the capital ship will be
using its smaller weapons on the fighters -- weapons that won't be used in
the fight against other capital ships anyway except in an anti-missile or
sensor-scrubbing role).

BTW, Ian, what is SFB? Star Fleet Battles? Me confused is.


Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:52:43 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Fighters

Hey Ditzie, at 1/17-53 I can still do one minor even if you have 900 points
of armor on your ship.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:56:38 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

     Of course knowledge is number one, but knowledge is nothing without
the ability to convey it to the person most able to use it.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:17:41 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #852

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> on 10/01/98 11:58:31 AM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #852





>From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
>Subject: re: Fighters (High Guard)
>
>     Yes I'm sure there are, my previous post never said they could take
on
>large armoured ship on their lonesome.  I just said that the fighters I
>have developed do indeed have an effect in combat.  There would be no
point
>in creating fighters for Traveller if they were unable to cause any damage
>to ships, better to spend your resources on combat ships that can.

This isnt strictly true.

As an example, lets assume a small, basic MCr 15 or so fighter - about 20
dtons, a single laser and a couple of missiles. Pulls about 4 gees,
includes a crew of two and a bunk.

Now, as a combat ship, it is useless - it cannot hurt real warships.

But as a customs and excise vessel, or for patrol, or to deal with
ethically-challenged civilians, it's quite cost-effective.

Just because something cant stand in line of battle doesnt mean it wont be
built.

Ian Whitchurch



It all comes back to the point of what my ship are toting.  These are MCr
      85, with Stutterwarp drives and the ability to perform extended
      system missions. They are armed with the spinals and that all, but
      they also have advanced stealth and pull 6 gees.  Yes you 20 ton
      fighter is not going to mean all that much in combat, but mine can
      move into a new facing many times thoughout the 30 minute combat
      turn.  But I will agree that many things are built for missions other
      than straight combat.  There are many jobs in which a combat ship is
      a liability rather than an advantage since the weapon systems take up
      so much of it available space.



Leo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:32:14 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic: RW US Aircraft

     It's those d**n Mercedes engines!  They make the bird almost silent,
put are able to keep it moving at very low altitudes.  Who else but the US
of A would build a plane around the weapon they wanted it to carry.  Those
pilots don't call the cockpit of those things the Titanium bathtub for
nothing, that about how much room they have in there.

Leo




Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> on 10/01/98 07:16:54 AM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   "'TML'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Off topic: RW US Aircraft




Jim Clem wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The A10 drivers kick butt.  They operate at LOW altitude (ie below 500
feet) and the A10 can turn on the change from that dime.  <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My brother was marching down a road with his unit when they saw
a blinking light in the sky. All their MILES units went off at once,
_then_ they heard an A-10's engines.

Their CO complained that the simulation hadn't been realistic. The
Air Force obliged with a live-fire demonstration of the same attack pass
(even same pilot, same plane) on that same stretch of road (while it was
unoccupied, of course).

The entire stretch of road for almost a thousand feet was cratered with
holes about six inches deep.

During that same excercise, my brother was in a control tower for
a small airfield. He watched an A-10 fly by below him - and it was
only a three-storey tower.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:12:43 -0500 
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>
Subject: RE: knife fights

On Wednesday, 30 September 1998 11:43, Mark Cook [SMTP:markc@peak.org]
wrote:
> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
> 
> > > Basic rule of thumb taught to folks defending against a knife.
"You
> > > will get cut."  
> > > You may have some input on to when and where...
> > 
> > Sort of like the advice I got about defending against a dog attack.
> > For
> > medium size dogs, you basicly "feed" them your arm. That gets the
arm
> > shredded some, but also means that their mouth is full. You can then
> > use the arm as a lever.
> 
> Right you are.  That's what we teach as well.  Specifically, you feed
> them your *off* arm, while going for a weapon with your other arm.

[snip]

> BTW, one philosophy we teach that a lot of our students have a hard
> time internalizing is the concept of tiered sacrifice: "Give up the
> hand to save the arm; give up the arm to save the body.  But above
> all, NEVER STOP FIGHTING."

For those interested, you can see a variation of this 'sacrifice'
technique explained in the context of knife fighting at
http://www.gunsite.net/videos/index.htm.  Take a look at the video clips
from _Tactical Edged Weapons I_.

I have found the Gunsite videos incredibly interesting.

- -vargr1                                                  UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ----------------------------------- The Future is in Beta
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ         |   vargr1@jcn1.com
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." |   dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #868
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, October 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 869



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Transponder's true nature
New Disadvantage
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness
GURPS:Traveller in Boston
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Imperial Transponders in other Interstellar States
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)
Ideologies (was Transponder's true nature)
Imperial Transponders....
Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness
G:T Questions
Re: Breaking Encryption
Re: G:T Questions
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 11:29:37 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

>>>>
I don't believe in ESP. ; )  If not correctly installed, i'd say it wouldn't work
>>>>
I don't think ESP works if it isn't installed correctly either ;-)
As far as transponders go, I think they would have to have auxiliary jacks for installation procedures, or at least a timeframe to connect it before blowing the security circuit (perhaps 30 sec?).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:48:13 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: New Disadvantage

It has come to my attention that some people wish GURPS Traveller were a
little more like the LBB's we all remember...so I have decided to fill an
important part of this need..maybe this will make those pining for the
fjords..I mean, good old days feel a bit better :)

NEW DISADVANTAGE FOR GURPS TRAVLLER

Dead										-300 points
	A character with this disadvantage is already dead before play begins.
Such 
a character may not move, think, speak, breathe, or in any way interact
with the game
world. "Dead characters may perform no actions of any kind; they are dead!"
Roleplay it!
In any campaign where ressurrection is possible, the GM may elect to allow
a dead character
who loses this disadvantage to buy it off with experience.
	Special Note: In GURPS Traveller, at the moment this disadvantage is
selected for a
character, the player must cease creating that character and begin a new
one.
	Special Note # 2: In GURPS Wizardry, a character who picks up this
disadvantage during play
may still join his companions at the Inn at the end of the adventure.

(Note: i remember seeing this somewhere, so decided to adapt it <g>)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:57:14 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

In a message dated 9/30/98 7:41:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ashock@gte.net
writes:

<<  it's tough to find space for 50 extra
 fuel modules. (it can't be done by unstreamlining either but that's another
 story. >>

The CT Gazelle IS unstreamlined. The Fiery variant is streamlined...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:18:10 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness

G-D, ... and I thought us yanks had a monopoly on screwing up school systems

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:16:25 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: GURPS:Traveller in Boston

Bloo types:
>> Wahhh! What FLGS in Boston had it?  My FLGS in Marlborough claimed they
>> didn't have it yet.
>I usually run down to the Compleat Strategist on Mass. Ave.
>You might also try Pandemonium in the Harvard Garage in Cambridge.
 
 Waaahhh!  I'm going in the wrong direction!  I have to drive to Sterling
Forest, NY tonight.
The Spare Time Shop in Marlborough won't have it tomorrow!

Anybody know of a FLGS near Sterling Forest, NY or Mahwah, NJ?


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:14:07 -0400
From: "johannes" <johannes@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)


>In mail you write:
>
>
>There's a 1950s issue of Astounding Science Fiction that has a cover
>picture of some sort of museum exhibit of weapons. Stone ax, sword, etc
>up to an atomic bomb. And then the final item in the chain, labeled
>"the deadliest weapon".
>
>An ordinary manila file folder.
>
>There's a lot of truth to that. I'd say that *knowledge* is number one,
>with communications a close second.
>


Or that could be someone's 201 (personnel) file, with an adverse efficiency
report in it.  In the US Army at least, hardened warriors' bowels turn to
jelly when they contemplate the effects of paper bullets, which regularly
destroy more careers than the real thing.

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:25:22 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Imperial Transponders in other Interstellar States

It's more than believable that the interstellar polities would put them in
ships that were going to trade in Imperial space, isn't it?  The argument for
them putting their own ships requires that the transponder be unforgable.
It's ludicrous that they'd put them in w/o knowing what they were, so
specifications are provided... maybe even a visit to Research Station Omicron
to an ambassador and tech or 2 (under heavy supervision, of course).  Maybe
their own espionage is successful enough to tell them what's in there.  The
point is that if it's proven to be unforgable (and the Imperials have no back
door in there), it's as effective for the foreign polities to use it as is it
for the Imperials.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:25:21 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> >Installing a ship is where it's told what ship its being installed in, who
the
> >captain is, etc etc.  This information is *never* forgotten or overwritten.
> 
> You misunderstand me. The above is exactly what I mean by programming. That
> information must be entered at the starship registration office. But the
> chip have no way of knowing that it is true.

That information can never be changed.  Sure you might be able to arrange for
the list to say "Captain Schmoe" instead of "Captain Schmuck" as the first
Captain, and then update it for a different name.  It's relatively easy to
"update" this,too, due to selling the ship, death or changing of Captains, etc
etc.  The point is a running history is kept.  U initially put in Captain
Schmoe (assuming you get away with it w/o arousing "suspicion") and decide you
want to skip payments.  You go to Starship Registration and say "Captain
Schmoe has sold me his ship" and they update it.  The trasnponder still tells
everyone Captain Schmuck once owned it, and allows the bounty hunters sent by
the bank to have the starport not allow your ship in the traffic patterns.
The same for piracy,etc.  

> >The transponders are in black boxes and delivered to starports in bulk.
When
> >installed in a ship, they're told what ship they're installed in,
> 
> But the _human_ who installs it may lie to it.

To no practical end.  See above.

> Now I'm going to propose an assumption. It is _not_ canonical and I do not
> claim that it is, OK? The assumption is this: The Imperial Navy will
> absolutely _require_ a transponder variant that can lie. These special
> transponders can be stolen and put on the black market.

Why?

> And even if they were, it wouldn't alter the fact that they conflict with
> other parts of the canon. You may not like the fact that Traveller had a
> life before you began playing, but you're going to have to learn to live
> with it. The Traveller canon did not start with MT.
 
And you may not like the fact that the official universe keeps going after you
started playing.  Traveller "canon" did not end w/ original Traveller.  Can
you live w/ that?  ; ) Or just try to pretend it never happened?  It didn't
stay stuck in a rut in the road, but developed and improved.  I rather like
the older stuff, in fact, even if it is sometimes inconsistent.  I've
certainly been paying rather ghastly amounts of money to acquire the items i
want.

> >The 3I is larger and more prosperous than any of its neighbors.  The
neighbors
> >(and it's mercantile interests) lose alot more than the 3I (and it's
megacorps
> >and mercantile interests).
> 
> Try rewriting that with America as the 3I and the rest of the G7 as the
> neighbors.

Why would I change the subject?  lol.  Different situation, different time,
different place, different people.  Just different.  Is Traveller the "America
in Space?" ; )

> >Remember the 3I is as much a trade alliance as it is an interstellar
polity.
> >It's internal trade is far more important than external.
> 
> So you think that just because 90% of Tukera's trade is inside its own
> borders it won't scream like a tigress losing its cubs when the remaining
> 10% is cut off? Come to that, how much of the Solomani megacorporations'
> trade is internal?

It's far more likely that Solomani are hurt far more than the imperials.  You
admit it's workable for the the foreign polities to put them on ships for
trade.  You're not just trying to be dense, are you?

> Well, the Solomani may not like the idea of a widespread spy network that
> tells the TRUTH about their ship movements. But the real crux is: How can
> they be sure that the system won't lie for the Imperials? Because the
> Imperials solemnly assured them that it wasn't set up to do that?
Riiiight...

No, because they learned bout the system and how it operates.  Maybe they have
acquired knowledge through espionage or another means.  Its possible.  How are
their ship movements uncovered?  You're not setting up a straw man for
yourself, are you? There is this little "mute" button. 

> >No. Just making a point that a limited number of locations (much less one
> >location) can be made effectively invulnerable to espionage and corruption.
> 
> That's why the Russian don't have the atom bomb, right?

So the Imperium has learned none of the lessons since, right?  And their
intelligence aparatus is no more effective that that of the US c1950, right?
Sure.  lol

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:25:24 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
> even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
> reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a system
> so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI enviroment,
> or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to change
> the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
> including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
> hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for dayly

Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
this unlikely to change in 3600 years?  Again, assuming no further discoveries
or inventions... this can't be improved or compensated for to the point it
will be stable?  In 3 and a half *thousand* years?

> means it can be rebuilt for a different purpose.  Your argument the it is
> not built but taught is not valid sence this teaching is just another form
> of signal fingure printing.  The 'simi-inteligent' chips are no more
> decurning than an inteligent being with the proper instramentation.  Both
> can be fooled.  Niether is foolproof.

An intelligent (lobotimized) being that has access to a databank.  It's a
living computer.  The method by which it records information is unforgable (at
least at TL15).  It's not any more far fetched that an intelligent microchip
could tell the difference whether it's been hooked up to a real computer and
comm system than it is for said intelligent chip to exist at all, is it?

> A very basic check system.  Nothing new in this discription and nothing
> 'foolproof'.  Easily spoofed.  Their are far more secure structures than
> this.  This is not even up to the current encryption standard for internet
> business use and it has been compromized on many occasions.

Only how the transponder recorded and verified it's information was detailed
(though you have to accept the workings of the Cymbeline predator in Signal GK
w/ the additional info in Survival Margin) for it to work.  Everything else
was left unexplained, including how to build the box (because the writers
weren't 57th century EEs).  Maybe you *know* what will and won't be possible
in electronics in 36+ centuries, but not me.  It's no more improbable than
laser weapons w/ useful range (much less meson weapons or jump drives)...

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:31:40 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:
> 
> G-D, ... and I thought us yanks had a monopoly on screwing up school systems

Try to imagine somebody you could get 50,000 children to agree that they
hate. (Hell, try imagining 50,000 kids doing anything all at once).

Between 40K and 50K kids showed up to welcome Nelson Mandela
last week and when the Premier stepped on stage - 50,000 booing
kids. An awesome sight to be, uh, be-hear.

ObTrav: The Children of the Marches! I wonder if it made a tour of
elementary shools in the marches. I wonder if ever kid got a sticker for
each ship it brought down. Dedicating a warship to school children is,
well, uh, warped at best.

- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:33:38 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

> One thing you keep conveniently egnoring is the effect of this perfect
> technology.  If such a perfect system that keeps perfect records of
> everything existed then you would end up with a perfect mess.  Complete
> record of all ship movments would be available to ANY official in ANY habor
> for verification reason.  So you know were everybody is all of the time.
> You know where every cargo began it's journey and ended it's trip.  No
> secrecy.  No privacy.  NO FREEDOM!  NO SAFETY.  By it's very nature this
> system is a deathtrap to the Empire that uses it.  Sure you have near
> absolute control of travel but NO ONE want that least of all the Empirial
> Inteigence Corps.  Such extensive UNFORGABLE records would make 
> clandestine operationms imposible for the Empire because there would always
be > some 'free trader' squawk box that knew that so-and-so or such-in-such
was not
> true and it would tell everyone it met until the secret was out.  

Mmm... no.  The transponder only kept a current and running history of the
registry, not everywhere it went, what it did,etc etc.  Only when the Captain
changed, teh ship name changed, etc etc.  Easy there, I least of anyone want
to trample on your free traders' freedom. : )

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 11:48:08 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Ideologies (was Transponder's true nature)

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature
...
>>>You think that a high security clearance is absolute assurance against
>>>corruption?
>> 
>>No. Just making a point that a limited number of locations (much less one
>>location) can be made effectively invulnerable to espionage and corruption.
>
>That's why the Russian don't have the atom bomb, right?

  As something of an aside, the apparent lack of ideologies in much of
the Trav universe (at least at the interstellar level) does remove one
substantial way for recruiting agents in your targets structure. At
least in the Imperium even a loyalty to your region, institution, or
personal overlord shouldn't exclude some degree of loyalty to the 3I
as a whole.

  OTOH, the Rebellion era wouldn't work if loyalty to the 3I were both
primary and substantial.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:51:04 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Imperial Transponders....

TravelrTNE wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It's more than believable that the interstellar polities would put them in
ships that were going to trade in Imperial space, isn't it?  The argument for
them putting their own ships requires that the transponder be unforgable.
It's ludicrous that they'd put them in w/o knowing what they were, so
specifications are provided... maybe even a visit to Research Station Omicron
to an ambassador and tech or 2 (under heavy supervision, of course).  Maybe
their own espionage is successful enough to tell them what's in there.  The
point is that if it's proven to be unforgable (and the Imperials have no back
door in there), it's as effective for the foreign polities to use it as is it
for the Imperials.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There's no way to prove to a foriegn government that these transponders
aren't spy boxes that will tell the Imperium everything whenever the ship
enters Imperial space - unless you're willing to give the secret to
foriegn powers.

Giving critical secrets to foriegn powers would require a much higher
level of trust than the OTU seems to indicate.

Even if you tell them what's in the box, the nature of the thing
(untamperable) makes it impossible for the foriegn power to control
what it does, or check to see that it only does what you said it would.

(Unless you're willing to give tamperable boxes to your enemies...)

When you think about it, it shouldn't be too hard to make these things
into spy boxes. They already access commo, computer and sensors
on a foriegn ship, you could at least have it record ship traffic, base
locations and signal traffic for ELINT. Dump the stuff in an extra channel
next to the one the Deyo chip uses to babble with - the Deyo signal
is uncrackable, so a signal added to it should be uncrackable as well.
The Navy may have some special boxes like this already - or may
have designed all transponders to have a special, secret mode like
this that a Navy transponder signal can unobtrusively switch on.

The ease with which this could be done would make any foriegn power
crazy to put these on ships that go anywhere _but_ the Imperium - they'd
probably have to operate from a few secure bases already known to the
Imperium if the Impies forced these transponders on them. Have one
ship that enters Imperial space, transfer to another ship that will take
the trade goods back into Zho or Alsan space.

I much prefer the idea of foriegn ships being foriegn, not tied in to the
Imperial ship traffic control system. That Aslan courier shouldn't be
sqauwking an Impie transponder code, it should have an Aslani ID
signal. Sure this gets them more attention from the Navy and such,
but foriegn ships should get that anyway.

"Captain, we're being hailed. I don't recognize the ID code."
"Relax, Mr. Peppin. That's an Aslani signal...looks like the
Ambassador is early..."

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:29:26 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness

Us Yanks are then new kids on the block as countries go.  Anything we are
doing to screw something up has more than likely been done many time over
in the Old countries.

Leo




Sethkimmel@aol.com on 10/01/98 11:18:10 AM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Re: GT and Overworked Wierdness




G-D, ... and I thought us yanks had a monopoly on screwing up school
systems

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:27:45 -0400
From: "Clark, William" <Clark@bessemer.com>
Subject: G:T Questions

Hi all,

	I picked up GURPS:Traveller 2 days ago and must congratulate
everyone who was involved.  The book rates very highly on my list
in terms of content and production quality, IMHO.

	I also have a few questions and was hoping that someone might
be able to answer them.

	1) Is it appropriate to ask questions here concerning GURPS
as long as it pertains to Traveller (i.e., non basic GURPS rules
questions)?

	2) It states in the book that the alternate timeline takes
place in the year 1120.  (p. 9, the section In a Nutshell [continued]
- - quote: It is now the 1120th year of that Third Imperium....).
Yet the current TNS entry is dated 289-1116.  Any particular reason
for the difference?

	3) The section on starship combat states that combat is fought
on a hex map where the hex is about 10,000 miles.  The Space Weapons
Table on p. 173 gives the range of the weapons in 2,000 mile hexes.
Shouldn't these numbers in the table be divided by 5?

	4) In the Direct Fire Phase of the Space Combat Sequence under
determining damage it says Subtract target DR (modifier by armor
divisor).  What is an armor divisor?

Thanks in advance for any help

Bill Clark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:39:18 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption

Brannon \"Ben\" Boren wrote:
> 
> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
> > That's the thing.  Is the NSA gonna wanna spend a month or two to decrypt
> > messages from my girlfriend to me?
> 
> No, but the NSA wouldn't care about your love letters even if you sent
> them in the clear, right? And if nobody cares enough about it to bother
> trying to read it anyway, what's the point in encrypting it at all?
> 
> I know... just because you can.  ;)


Nope, you do that so that encryption is the norm, and there's no way to
easily tell the messages that realy _need_ to be encrypted from the rest
of the message traffic.

Also, privacy, to many in the US, is a right, not a privelege...as it
stands now e-mail is not private...any number of prying eyes can read
this message along the way to your screen.

There's a fairly decent history of e-mailed plaintext love letters
coming back to bite the sender in the nether regions.

If the only encrypted messages you send are the important ones, that
filters them right out for the big brother types.

Relevant to this discussion are two points:

Encryption is always breakable, eventually, therefore encryption is a
poor way to permanently secure information, often spectacularly so.
Permanent protection of secrets should never rely on encryption, but on
physical control of the secret.

The aim with encryption is to prevent the enemy from knowing your secret
long enough for the secret to become stale and useless. A key for a
single transaction need only be unbreakable for the life of that
transaction, which may be only moments. The strength of the key is
inversely proportional to the length of time you need to secure the
information. 56 bit DES is perfectly acceptable for information to be
used within the hour, but if you're using it to protect accounting data
for permanent archival, you're in trouble.

There are also techniques coming into use today that interleave
encrypted information within otherwise innocuous messages, a technique
called 'winnowing and chaffing' (iirc). See the current issue of
Scientific American for an article about encryption, its strengths and
weaknesses (by Phil Zimmerman himself.).


- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:52:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: G:T Questions

Clark, William writes:
> 
>      1) Is it appropriate to ask questions here concerning GURPS
> as long as it pertains to Traveller (i.e., non basic GURPS rules
> questions)?
The gurps mailing list (gurpsnet-l@io.com) might be more likely to know
answers, if they relate directly to GURPS, though there's some crossovers in
any case.
> 
>      2) It states in the book that the alternate timeline takes
> place in the year 1120.  (p. 9, the section In a Nutshell [continued]
> - quote: It is now the 1120th year of that Third Imperium....).
> Yet the current TNS entry is dated 289-1116.  Any particular reason
> for the difference?
The divergence is in 1116, with the emperor not being assassinated, at a guess.
> 
>      3) The section on starship combat states that combat is fought
> on a hex map where the hex is about 10,000 miles.  The Space Weapons
> Table on p. 173 gives the range of the weapons in 2,000 mile hexes.
> Shouldn't these numbers in the table be divided by 5?
Hm...didn't notice that.  Sounds like an errata.  
> 
>      4) In the Direct Fire Phase of the Space Combat Sequence under
> determining damage it says Subtract target DR (modifier by armor
> divisor).  What is an armor divisor?

Under the description for X-ray lasers, it indicates that they divide DR by 2. 
That means it has an armor divisor of 2.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:31:28 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:30:47 -0400
>From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)

>I've got GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition) and GURPS Space, as well as GURPS
>Uplift (I purchased the others to use Uplift). I was pretty cheesed to
>discover that (a) I'd have to lay out for a couple more books to really
>get everything I needed, and (b) for some reason the 'flavour' of the
>system was very bland. (Mind you, some of the later could be my having to
>stop and translate most of the numbers before I could feel them. I can't
>really enjoy a French novel, either, even if I can follow the action.)

Well, I've discussed what I think one "needs".  It is true that
one may want other books, but that is true of any system and
I think GURPS gives you as much for the buck as any game.

Regarding flavor.  The point of the system is that the game
mechanic imparts as little flavor to the game as possbile.
"Flavor" comes from the background and, at least for me,
GURPS Traveller takes on a Traveller flavor.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:11:05 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 02:25 PM 10/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
>> even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
>> reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a system
>> so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI enviroment,
>> or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to change
>> the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
>> including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
>> hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for dayly
>
>Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
>this unlikely to change in 3600 years?  Again, assuming no further discoveries
>or inventions... this can't be improved or compensated for to the point it
>will be stable?  In 3 and a half *thousand* years?
>

"Assumeing makes an ASS out of U and ME."

The laws of physics are not likely to change in these three dimentions in
ANY length of time.  There has NEVER in history been an unbeatable security
system.  If a thing can be built it can be beaten.  YOU propose that such a
system can exist.  Very well, prove it!  You say that the technology can
exist, discribe how it works.  I do not expect you to invent it.  All I ask
is some theorum that might posibly let it exist.  You have not proposed
anything that can do what you say it should be able to do.  Your system
could be broken by a moderately competant EE or hacker with a fast computer.
It does not matter what stores the data the data is known and the data is
store the storage method can and will be decoded.  You do not understand the
nature of what you are discribing.  The technobable makes you this is a new
concept.  It is not.

I have signal GK.  I have run it.  I know how the processes discribed.  They
are part of my job.  What they discribe is remotely plausible under the
specific condition they discribe.  If you had the knowledge then you would
know that with the proper equipment a person could read and understand the
mind and memories of that chip just as with the proper equipment (which does
not yet exist)you could record the entirety of one human's existance.  It is
also posible to exactly duplicate both!  If these things are posible then
your chips could be cloned.  

Those chips are not so suffisticated that it would require this level to
duplicate.  The circuit scaner in signal GK was enough to recognise and
recognise the partial schematic inside the life form.  A slightly modified
scanner combined with the proper electronic probes could have been used to
clone that chip and it's program and data.  Bang instant duplicate.  There
are any number of fabs in business TODAY that could do this with their TL8
gear.  It is done ervery day.  In signal GK the chip itself admits that it
could no longer produce the high quality copies of itself and it's circuits
that could be done with the help of human technology.  The tech discribes is
at best mid 20th century.  We use the processes discribed today.

>> means it can be rebuilt for a different purpose.  Your argument the it is
>> not built but taught is not valid sence this teaching is just another form
>> of signal fingure printing.  The 'simi-inteligent' chips are no more
>> decurning than an inteligent being with the proper instramentation.  Both
>> can be fooled.  Niether is foolproof.
>
>An intelligent (lobotimized) being that has access to a databank.  It's a
>living computer.  The method by which it records information is unforgable (at
>least at TL15).  It's not any more far fetched that an intelligent microchip
>could tell the difference whether it's been hooked up to a real computer and
>comm system than it is for said intelligent chip to exist at all, is it?
>

If the data exactly duplicates what it expects to see within the tolerences
of reality itself it could not know the difference.  Know being of
instrament could.  Reality (to a living being) is what we percieve NOT what
it is that we do not percieve.  If we can not percieve a diference then
there is no diference.  Remember the the signal GK chip had to be given new
sences and taught to use them before it come deal with the human crew.  All
it had was a very short range radio direction finder system.  The writer of
signal GK had a good graps of what was posible for the lifeforms he
portrayed.  You do not.  You have yet to explain how the signals the chips
sends out differ in any qualitative way that would prevent them from being
duplicated.  That the chips are alive is not relavant in the least.  How are
their signal unforgable?  They can not modulate the EM spectrum in a unique
way.  That is limited by physics.  They may speak their own language but
that can be learned by a linguiestics program.  Culture can be imulated
through experience.  And if their mutation rate is 'slow and predictable'
then that which can predict it can be use to falsify it.  Everything you use
to say they are unforgable proves that they are forable.  It one chips can
figure out what the other chip should be saying then so can a computer or a
person.  The fact they can recognize each other means that other people can
as well and forge that identity.

>> A very basic check system.  Nothing new in this discription and nothing
>> 'foolproof'.  Easily spoofed.  Their are far more secure structures than
>> this.  This is not even up to the current encryption standard for internet
>> business use and it has been compromized on many occasions.
>
>Only how the transponder recorded and verified it's information was detailed
>(though you have to accept the workings of the Cymbeline predator in Signal GK
>w/ the additional info in Survival Margin) for it to work.  Everything else
>was left unexplained, including how to build the box (because the writers
>weren't 57th century EEs).  Maybe you *know* what will and won't be possible
>in electronics in 36+ centuries, but not me.  It's no more improbable than
>laser weapons w/ useful range (much less meson weapons or jump drives)...
>

You have accused another resonder that he will not believe you because he
refuses to do so in the face of your logic.  You are guilty of the same
offence.  You say something is SO because it is what you WANT to be so.  You
freely admit that you are not an EE yet you claim insight into electronic
that is superior to that of a praticing EE.  Do you make a habit of going to
a doctor or other professional and then discarding his opinion in perference
to your own when you have no first hand knowledge in that field?

You abmit the the traveller adventure contradics you but still you say you
are right.  How can this be?  Can you reconsile the conflict?  If not the
can you at least be reasonable to admit that you could be wrong.

Also you did not address the sociological effects that would come from your
version of the transponder that I and others pointed out.  How do you
explain that the traveller universe as discribed in canon has not been
effected by such far reaching bigbrotherism?



Charles.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #869
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Thursday, October 1 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 870



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)
G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.
Re: Breaking Encryption
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; ) (was:Transponder's true nature)
Re: knife fights
GT: Alien Races 1
Re: An interesting tidbit.
Freelance Traveller Problems Predicted
Re: FFS/QSDS Sheets
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: Climing around in ductwork
Re: knife fights
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
BITS and Pieces
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: BITS and Pieces 
Re: [deckplans] Re: GURPS Trav deckplans
Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:11:12 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

At 02:33 PM 10/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> One thing you keep conveniently egnoring is the effect of this perfect
>> technology.  If such a perfect system that keeps perfect records of
>> everything existed then you would end up with a perfect mess.  Complete
>> record of all ship movments would be available to ANY official in ANY habor
>> for verification reason.  So you know were everybody is all of the time.
>> You know where every cargo began it's journey and ended it's trip.  No
>> secrecy.  No privacy.  NO FREEDOM!  NO SAFETY.  By it's very nature this
>> system is a deathtrap to the Empire that uses it.  Sure you have near
>> absolute control of travel but NO ONE want that least of all the Empirial
>> Inteigence Corps.  Such extensive UNFORGABLE records would make 
>> clandestine operationms imposible for the Empire because there would always
>be > some 'free trader' squawk box that knew that so-and-so or such-in-such
>was not
>> true and it would tell everyone it met until the secret was out.  
>
>Mmm... no.  The transponder only kept a current and running history of the
>registry, not everywhere it went, what it did,etc etc.  Only when the Captain
>changed, teh ship name changed, etc etc.  Easy there, I least of anyone want
>to trample on your free traders' freedom. : )
>

You just contradicted yourself.  You said it could not be forged because of
the 'chatterbox' function and all the data that was swapped like what ships
it met and when ect.  Also how would anybody know what was going on in the
sealed box if they were not allowed to inspect it?  How would you force the
free merchants of the merchant merine to use them if they all said no?  They
are organized you know.  A nice Empire wide boycott untill the Empire
starved or opened the books up to expert repesntatives of the MM.  Sorry, it
just does not work.  The 'chatterbox' concept would either make the Empire
into something it is not or it would be removed.  And do not try to say that
people would not know they were exchanging the data.  It is sent in the EM
sectrum so it can be intercepted and any signal can be decoded with enough
examples and as the box talks all the time...

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

The G:Traveller ship design system includes power plants as parts of 
components -- while this does simplify matters, it tends to generate
a slight excess of power plant, and has really strange effects when
doing things such as adding weaponry to a ship.  It also causes problems
for mapping, if you want to know how big your power plant is.  I made
this stuff for the playtest, separating out the power plant from major
power-using components, but it was either not wanted or lost in the noise
(signal/noise ratio in the G:T playtest could have been higher).  This also
includes a few other useful modules, such as variable size spinal weaponry.

Module: 'power plant'
    At TL 10, 4 tons, $0.4 million.  Produces 40 megawatts.
    At TL 12, 4 tons, $0.2 million.  Produces 40 megawatts.
Module: 'capacitor'
    At TL 10, 8 tons, $1.6 million.  Holds 80 MWH of power.
    At TL 12, 8 tons, $1.6 million.  Holds 120 MWH of power.
    Note that I am including access space in capacitors, which is non-standard.
Module: 'unpowered utility module'.
    10.5 tons, $0.2M.  Draws 1 MW per 50 spaces with artificial gravity
    (10 MW for the entire component).  For small craft, the real cost for
    artificial gravity is 1 ton and $20k per 50 spaces or fraction (the
    remaining .5 tons is for the airlock).  Normally, the power usage might
    as well be included in the module, since it's fairly rare that
    artificial gravity will be turned off.
Module: 'unpowered thruster'
    At TL 10, 3.75 tons, $0.15 million.  50 tons thrust, draws 5 megawatts.
    At TL 11+, 3.75 tons, $0.75 million.  125 tons thrust, draws 12.5 MW.
Module: 'unpowered unvectored thruster'
    At TL 10, 4 tons, $0.16M.  80 tons thrust, draws 8 MW.
    At TL 11+, 4 tons, $0.8M. 200 tons thruster, draws 20 MW.
    Most common on merchants who don't need high manueverability.  In
    order to land, the ship must have a contragravity unit.
Module: 'unpowered contragravity unit'
    4 tons, 8,000 tons CG lift, draws 16 MW, costs $0.8M.  Not very useful
    without at least one thruster unit.
Module: 'unpowered jump drive'
    At any TL: 3 tons, $3 million, draws 10 megawatts.  Note that this
    is noticeably smaller than a classic J-drive, I favored 4 tons, $2M,
    20 megawatts.
Module: 'unpowered turret Xaser'
    At TL 10, 10.75 tons and $.98M; draws 16 MW.  Oddly enough, there does
    not appear to be sufficient space in this component for the power plant.
    At TL 12, 12 tons and $.34M (compact is discarded), draws 18 MW.
Module: 'unpowered turret laser'
    This is a compact 270 MJ TL 10 UV laser.  It is 12 tons and $.92M,
    draws 9 MW, and does 8d*50 damage with a 1/2D of 8500 miles, max 25,500.
    This is basically inferior to the turret Xaser (despite its higher 
    damage), but might be found on some merchant ships.
Module: 'unpowered turret fusion gun'
    As CT fusion guns only fit 2 to a turret, this is a 1.5 space weapon.
    It is also compact.  It is 1 GJ fusion gun, damage 5d*500, power
    consumption 33 MW, 1/2D 4000, max 12,000.  At TL 11 this rises to
    6d*500, 1/2D 4200, max 12,600.  Price is 2.32 million.  A fusion
    gun can fit in a turret along with one other weapon (including another
    fusion gun).
Module: 'unpowered turret PAW-X'
    At TL 10, 12 tons and $.54M, draws 12 MW (multiply weight/cost/volume X^2);
    damage is 6d*250*X, range is 2400*X.  Beam energy is 360 MJ * X^2.
    At TL 11+, increase damage to 6d*300*X, range to 2500*X.
    Spinal versions of these weapons are possible.  Reduce weight and volume
    by 30%, cost remains the same (conveniently, the power plant is .3 spaces
    per space of weapon).  The bay mount in GT is a turret-6 (36 spaces plus
    11 spaces of power plant).  The spinal mount in GT is a spinal-40 (1120
    spaces plus 480 spaces power plant; due to my rounding conventions the
    actual weight/volume is slightly lower).  X may have a minimum value,
    though based on the G:T book it doesn't really (100 MJ is below threshold).
    A class T spinal mount is a PAW-100, taking up 7,000 spaces.
Module: 'unpowered turret meson-X'
    At TL 10, 12 tons and $1.16M, draws 12 MW, all multiplied by X^2.  Damage
    is 6d*160*X, 1/2D range is 2000*X, max is 6100*X.  At TL 12, use stats
    for a TL 10 PAW.  Spinal versions are possible as above.
Module: 'unpowered meson screen'
    The meson screen stats took me a bit of work to back-compute; it appears
    that a meson screen is a force screen (per VE) with DR multiplied by 5. 
    This means it is actually a surface component, and has no volume.  Per
    million DR-sf, this is 2 MW, .04 tons, and $0.1 million; the standard
    screen includes a 41.6 MW fusion reactor and should cost $2.288M, not
    $2.258M.  For reference, a TL 11 screen has the same power consumption,
    but twice the weight and cost.
Module: 'unpowered nuclear damper'
    The performance for the damper unit appears wrong (looks like it _should_
    be two damper units, *8 mass for being TL 12, but that's only 4 tons)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:21:30 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption

At 12:39 PM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Brannon \"Ben\" Boren wrote:
>> 
>There are also techniques coming into use today that interleave
>encrypted information within otherwise innocuous messages, a technique
>called 'winnowing and chaffing' (iirc). See the current issue of
>Scientific American for an article about encryption, its strengths and
>weaknesses (by Phil Zimmerman himself.).
>
>
>-- 
>Bruce Johnson

This process of adding meaning text to a message to throw off code breaker
goes back the WW2 at least.  The USA, Japan, England, and the French
resistance all used this method as part of there encoding schemes.  There
are several good books on the coders and crackers of that time.  Very good
reading too.  Also the TRUE spy stories from that time are also in the clear
now.  The day to day working of the spy guys are not at all what you would
expect.  Would you believe dumpster diving and running a brothel?

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:50:03 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; ) (was:Transponder's true nature)

     I thought that the Transponder was just there recording information
and only Imperial units or port athorities could querry it by sending a
special code on a laser.  I had also thought that it was SOP for imperial
units to 'scan' any ship they came into contact with, while merchantmen and
others carried them but never had anything to do with it other than having
it replaced every once in a great while.

Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:34:06 +1200
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: knife fights

At 23:40 30/09/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I rather liked the way it was described to me. 
>
>"Shove your arm down its throat until you can rip its lungs out."
>
>Of course that requires unlikely targeting skills. But it *does* ensure
>that the dog is too busy choking and strangling to do anything further
>to you. 

I strongly recommend that in the event that you are attacked by a Bull
Terrier that you don't mess this up, because if you do the dog will very
likely shear a large chunk of your hand right off, without being
significantly slowed down. Personally I think that employing a gun or
baseball bat before they get that close is the way to go.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 16:40:00 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: GT: Alien Races 1

The page for David Pulver's GT: Alien Races 1 is up on the SJGames website:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/AlienRaces/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:40:14 -0400
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: An interesting tidbit.

It indicates that Traveller in a "MODREN" game system is a big deal any
where. Exspecial in the GURPS world. With Gurps there has never been a
really good sci fi world. and the hack together homegrown ones don't have
the same feel.


- ----------
> From: Allen Shock <ashock@gte.net>
> To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Subject: An interesting tidbit.
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 12:42 PM
> 
> I have a friend who sells games out of a bookstore he owns in the Upper
> peninsula of Michigan. He told me that the distributor he orders his
games
> from, a small operation apparently out of Wisconsin, ordered 300 copies
of
> GURPS Traveller; apparently GURPS is not a big seller for them. One
> half-hour after they got them in the warehouse, they were gone, and they
> have about 1,500 on back order...I found that rather interesting :) I'm
> sure it doesn't indicate anything, but it's slightly encouraging :)
> 
> Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 23:36:23 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Freelance Traveller Problems Predicted

Because of some problems at our ISP, it is entirely possible that
Freelance Traveller will be offline for an unspecified period in
the very near future.  While email service will be uninterrupted,
this will nevertheless cause some unavoidable disruption, which
we regret.  We are currently in search of another ISP, and will
post an announcement when we have found one that is adequate.

We are not above asking for help in this effort.  We are looking
for an ISP with dialup access in the New York City area (U.S.
Area Codes 212, 718, 914, 917, 646) that offers non-commercial
accounts with the following features (MUST HAVES):

(1) Access with a 914 area code is a must.
(2) At least 5MB of personal web/ftp space.
(3) Support for the FrontPage98 Extensions on the web server to
support some present and planned features of Freelance Traveller,
and to support automatic publishing of webs.
(4) Support for low-volume mailing lists (either LISTSERV or
MAJORDOMO) with both reflector and digest capabilities
(5) No limit on connect time (i.e., flat rate monthly pricing,
not hourly, and not base monthly + hourly for use in excess of x,
unless x is _very_ high).
(6) Accessibility using non-proprietary software - specifically,
the Win95 dialup networking, Fort Agent as a news/mail reader,
and Internet Explorer or Netscape as a web browser.  This implies
PPP dialup access, POP3 mail, and NNTP news.

We are currently paying $14.95 monthly for these features (annual
contract discount - the list price is $19.95 monthly).  We are
looking for a price "in the same neck of the woods".

Desirable features (THESE ARE "EXTRA POINTS" BUT NOT ESSENTIAL):

(1) Web and mail aliases (i.e., we would like to be able to have
a URL of the form http://www.FreelanceTraveller.isp.com/ if
possible; also have mail to FreelanceTraveller@isp.com or
FreelanceTraveller%foo@isp.com or some variation routed directly
to the Editor's personal mailbox - although we will keep the
HotMail address for the forseeable future).  Alternatively,
forwardable additional mailboxes at no charge (or minimal charge)
would be acceptable.
(2) Support for CGI other than those provided by the FrontPage98
Extensions - note that if we get this in the form of Perl
support, we can forgo the FrontPage98 extensions entirely.
(3) Access with numbers in one or more of area codes 212, 718,
917, 646.
(4) Should not have a reputation for being a spam-haven.

If you have any suggestions, please send them to
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com; do not post them to the list.
Please include contact addresses and/or phone numbers.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:22:17 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: FFS/QSDS Sheets

At 08:56 AM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I need an assignment for my gifted grade 11 class (age 16). I was
>considering having them add controls to Andy's spreadsheets to make them
>easier to use. For example, instead of entering 1 for yes, 2 for no, you
>would click a pair of radio buttons marked yes and no.  
>
>Two questions:
>
>1) Is this a change people would like?

It'd make life a bit easier to have drop down menus for things like hull form.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:24:06 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 11:30 PM 9/30/98 PST, you wrote:

>> When I was at Ft. Benning, an USAF type explained the joys of hooking such
>> a system up to an AC-130 Spectre.
>>
>> Using a Mk19 AGL would make sense, but I was thinking of the advantage of
>> having a nearly solid line of tracers reaching the enemy position.
>
>*Nearly* solid? Hell, all the footage I've seen makes them look like a
>solid bar of light (much like an old-fashioned Grade-B movie "death ray")

In real life you can make out the flickering of the individual tracers.
Also, they bounce when the hit the ground, making for a cool fireworks
display.
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 02:05:24 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Climing around in ductwork

ringrose@ascent.com wrote:


> At MIT, there are hackers (not the computer type, the practical joke
> type -- the ones who do things like put police cars, complete with a
> ticket ("no permit for this location") and a box of donuts, on the
> great dome) who enjoy getting into places they're not supposed to be,
> and finding places which don't appear on maps.  They crawl around in
> ductwork reasonably often.  And these are real world buildings.

I particularly like the one where they put a false wall over the entrance to
a new dean's office, and he couldn't find it.

> ObTrav:
> Have your characters ever visited in institute for educating the
> _extremely_ gifted?  The kind of place Famile Spoofalum (sp?) might
> send their kids to learn the finer points of advanced physics?

Something along the lines of the thin CalTech does where the
students configure crazy ways of sealing their dorm room doors
and other students have to figure out how to get in.

> Real World, but certainly modifiable to Trav:
> Then there's the building next door, which houses Genzyme.  People
> started getting headaches.  They eventually investigated the ducts and
> found something green growing in them.  Last I knew, they didn't
> know what it was (as in, couldn't determine the zoological
> classification).

Genzyme is a scary looking building, in a suburban kind of way.
Manicured lawns, big windows and red brick on the outside , but with
huge steel girders at angles visible through the windows.  I can see it
clearly from
my bedroom across the river.

Hmm.  Another Bostonite TMLer.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 02:23:47 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: knife fights

Mark Cook wrote:


> Right you are.  That's what we teach as well.  Specifically, you feed
> them your *off* arm, while going for a weapon with your other arm.
>
> This can produce a moment of confusion for people like me.  I'm
> ambidextrous with left tendencies.  I'm right-eye dominant and shoot
> right-handed, but I fence, bat, and knife-fight left-handed.  So, if
> I'm attacked by a dog, the arm I feed it depends on how far away it
> is when I initially become aware of it, and how fast it's closing on
> me.  If I have sufficient distance, it gets my left arm while I draw
> my Glock with my right hand.  Otheriwse, it gets my *right* arm while
> I draw my SpyderCo folder with my left hand.
>

That sounds like Cross-difference.  Normally, the one side of the brain
controls all of the functions of the otherside of the body, i.e, the left
brain controls the right side, etc.  But 20% of people (80+% of
major league baseball players) have "cross-diference" which means
that the controls switch or cross about neck level.  Thus, a person with
cross difference who is left-brain dominant will be right handed but
left-eyed.  For baseball, this is a good thing because the dominant eye
is closest to the ball, while the dominant hand controls the swing to meet
the ball.  The same is true for right brain dominant people.  Sounds like
you are tend to be right brain dominant, and thus, left-handed and right-eyed

(toned down for your ambidexterity).

Some people also have an apparent switch with the feet, though I don't
know their to be any physiological reason.  I have cross-difference,
which makes me right handed and left-eyed (which makes it hell to shoot a
rifle normally), but I have to lead with my left foot on skateboards, and
such.
 This is called "goofy foot" in the parlance.  I think its just
environmental.

You can test yourself for cross-difference real easy.
Extend your arms straight out and form a triangle with the index fingers
and thumbs of your hands.
With both eyes open: center an object in the center of the triangle.
Close right eye and observe any change in relative position of the object.
Open right eye and close left.  Observe any change in relative position.

The eye that was open with the least change in position is your dominant eye.

If that is the same side as your dominant hand, you're normal.
If it is the opposite side from your dominant hand, you have cross
difference.   Good to know if you ever need to fire a gun.  Since, I can't
shoot a rifle properly, because firing lefty is too weird and I can't get
my good eye in the sights, I learned to shoot from the hip as a kid.  I'm
not sure what Mr. Cook would say, but I was always taught to just point
and shoot and don't think about it.  For all I know, thats improper as hell
for real shooting, but it sure impresses the boys when we play paintball.
:-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:37:01 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

>Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:25:24 EDT
>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com

>> antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
>> even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
>> reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a system
>> so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI enviroment,
>> or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to change
>> the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
>> including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
>> hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for dayly

>Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
>this unlikely to change in 3600 years?  Again, assuming no further discoveries
>or inventions... this can't be improved or compensated for to the point it
>will be stable?  In 3 and a half *thousand* years?

Yeah, but ways around these things will also improve with time.
Any claim that talks about how technology will make things
foolproof is suspect and always ignores advances that will
counter that device.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 19:05:13 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

David P. Summers wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> >Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
> >this unlikely to change in 3600 years?  Again, assuming no further discoveries
> >or inventions... this can't be improved or compensated for to the point it
> >will be stable?  In 3 and a half *thousand* years?
> 
> Yeah, but ways around these things will also improve with time.
> Any claim that talks about how technology will make things
> foolproof is suspect and always ignores advances that will
> counter that device.
> 

Agreed.  What man makes, man can unmake.  Besiedes, just about the time
that technology makes something more nearly foolproof, evolution will
produce a "better" fool.   ;-)

> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 19:32:54 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Black ICE wrote:
> 
> David P. Summers wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> 
> Agreed.  What man makes, man can unmake.  Besiedes, just about the time
                                            ^^^^^^^^
> that technology makes something more nearly foolproof, evolution will
> produce a "better" fool.   ;-)
> 
As my typo above demonstrates ~blush~.


- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:37:22 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

In a message dated 9/29/98 16:10:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dberry@hooked.net writes:

<< For someone who has just spent close to $50 on the GURPS rule book and
 GURPS Traveller to be told that he really needs to spend another $80 on
 supplements to really enjoy the game could leave some people cold. >>

It certainly has in my case...I am not happy about it at all.  I will detail
my problems w/ G:T in a later e-mail (although they are personal dislikes, not
to be taken as disparging on the intense effort on the part of Mr. Wiseman)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:32:30 EDT
From: Diespamer@aol.com
Subject: BITS and Pieces

Greetings All:

Apologies if this has been beaten to death...but are the BITS items available
in the US of A somewhere? I'd like to get 101 Religions and the other
publications for the (now slowly) expanding Traveller collection...

Many thanks!

Fred Kiesche
(Traveller since 1977!)
(NOTE: Due to the overwhelming amount of unwanted porn-related spam that I was
receiving, please e-mail at Diespamer@aol.com until further notice...)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:46:19 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

In a message dated 9/29/98 23:08:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
summers@alum.mit.edu writes:

<<  For example, I don't have
 GURPS psionics and have had no problem running GURPS Traveller.
 I was doing it before GURPS Compendium ever came out.  I did
 use Space but could have gotten by without it.  These things
 are useful but hardly required.  All you really need is Basic
 and you could probably even squeek by with GURPS Lite if you want
 to give it a shot....


Or you could just mine GURPS Traveller for any useful tidbits to use w/ your
favorite Traveller ruleset!!!

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:14:28 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: GURPS Trav- my own nits

     Having just looked thru my brand-new copy of G: T,  I would like to offer
my take on it.  (BTW, I am not attempting to offend anyone w/ any criticism):

Good side:
   1)  A VERY well polished product!  This alone goes a long way to making me
forget the atrocities that IG committed on T4.  The artwork was absolutely
fabulous (I have to agree w/ another poster to the list that the Aslan looks
more like a man w/ a beard and 'stache), definately light-years ahead of Foss'
T4 art.

   2)  Extremely well laid-out...everything is in a logical order, and
reasonably clearly explained (a few more examples could have been
supplied...mostly w/ starship construction and combat).

Now the bad side (for me):

   1)  THIS IS NOT TRAVELLER!!!   This is Traveller thru a GURPS lens.  I have
always held that GURPS is a good system, but it has that word in it:  GENERIC.
I don't believe it can give the overiding attention to detail to the Trav
universe that a Traveller game can.  Loren Wiseman has obviously put his heart
and soul into making this project the best he can...and he deserves every
accolade that he could possible get for it.   But I truly wish that this
obvious enthusiasm could have gone into T5 w/ Mr. Miller...or that SJG would
have let this be done as a stand alone system not using GURPS.

My personal take (FWIW) is that for me and mine, the best Trav system was
MT...w/ the caveat that the idea behind MT was the best (that is, to update
and streamline CY).  I feel that looking at it from 10 years later, with all
the errata in place (the major killer to the MT system)  and the abandonment
of the Rebellion/Virus plotline (although the Rebellion is salvageable IMO)
the MT sytem came closest to doing what every system since CT
promised...making everything work w/ one simple system.  Like I said...the
errata and mistakes in the 1st printing turned a lot of people off (including
me and my group, in 88) but now having the fixes, and having tried to run all
the various systems w/ my hard-core Trav group of 3 people [ :-) ]  they have
decided that that system is the easiest to play w/ and understand from a
player standpoint.  From the GM's view, I have to agree.  I love the combat
system of TNE, but it was just too much for me and my group.  The starship
combat system was perfect to me, but the design sequences were too much.  T4
was a bold promise that unfortunately was murdered in the womb IMO by IG.  I
sincerely hope that T5 is NOT shelved in favor of G: T.

There is one positive note in all of this:  it is my hope that, owing to the
large number of GURPS players there are (and in Las Vegas, it seems no one has
heard of ANY incarnation of Trav, but everyone knows AD&D and GURPS)  maybe it
will be possible to bring some of these misguided <G> players into the light,
and show them what REAL Trav is!!

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:36:55 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: BITS and Pieces 

> Greetings All:
> 
> Apologies if this has been beaten to death...but are the BITS items available
> in the US of A somewhere? I'd like to get 101 Religions and the other
> publications for the (now slowly) expanding Traveller collection...

Personally, I'm wondering if Marc would authorise stuff primarily written for
CT to be published.  I've got some ideas that are growing from the PBEM I'm
running, and wouldn't mind seeing them in print...

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:34:25 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: [deckplans] Re: GURPS Trav deckplans

In a message dated 9/30/98 19:03:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Letterworks@CITNET.com writes:

<<  The TL10 and TL 12 Basic bridge is listed
 as having 2.5 spaces or 10  yards so I can buy that for a crew of 5. >>

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the bridge on the Type S
deckplans is backwards from that shown in Traders and Gunboats and Imperial
Fringe?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:46:50 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit

Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> writes:
>Try to imagine somebody you could get 50,000 children to agree that they
>hate. (Hell, try imagining 50,000 kids doing anything all at once).
>
>Between 40K and 50K kids showed up to welcome Nelson Mandela
>last week and when the Premier stepped on stage - 50,000 booing
>kids. An awesome sight to be, uh, be-hear.

And, contrary to reports in the right-wing press, the teachers were trying
to make the kids shut up and be polite, not encouraging it.  'course,
Harris knows the kids can't vote...

Mandela look confused. No one explained to him that his visit was
sponsored by the teachers federations that Harris has been trying to
dismantle, or that these kids were tested on material they hadn't studied
(because the government gave the tests, THEN released the curriculum, and
finally commissioned the textbooks to be written), or that a solution to
"not enough money" is "sell a school" (even if it will be needed in a few
years as the population of its area changes), or...

(Mike Harris is currently Premier of Ontario, although his policies seem
to be set by an advisor named Guy Giorno. Seems intent on ripping the
social fabric apart. Not bad if you're an already-educated healthy
employed white middle-class male in the private sector - otherwise you're
a problem to be solved. Scary times to live through. Gives me a new
appreciation for Dulinor's subjects, I tell ya.)

ObTrav: What the hell, time for a Rebellion. Where can I hire some Vargr
corsairs and Aslan mercenaries? :-)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #870
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 871



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: New Disadvantage
Re Transponders
Re Privacy (was encrytion)
Dogs and USAF
Re: Fighters
Re: Transponder's true nature
fighters
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)
Tech advancement (was: Transponder's true nature )
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:06:33 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrodd@fastlane.net>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

At 10:27 AM 9/30/1998 -0400, Allen wrote:
<snip>
>I also have some thoughts on drop tanks. Basically, they are additional
>hull space, with additional fuel tankage within, that can be ejected. They
>would add to the volume of the ship, and to it's surface area as turrets
>do. They can be armored, but are usually not armored as well as the ship,
>as they are disposable and usually ejected in combat anyway; DR 100 is
>usually sufficient.
>
>The reason I bring this up is because I am trying to design a GT version of
>the Gazelle Class close escort. I am running into difficulties. The ship
>has a 280-ton hull, carries a 20-ton gig, and has 100-ton drop tanks.
>It is supposed to do Jump-3 with the tanks, Jump-5 without, and do 3G's
>with the tanks, 5 G's without. Jump fuel is the problem; a ship that does
>J-5 at 300 tons (280+20 for the gig, no tanks) requires 150 spaces of jump
>fuel. The Gazelle design has 100 spaces fuel internal, 100 in the drop
>tanks. This means that if it drops it's tanks, it cannot do Jump 5; it only
>does 3 parsecs. The reason for the drop tanks is supposed to be so it will
>have the fuel to cross places like the Great Rift, albeit at a slower jump
>rate. at 280 tons and streamlined, it's tough to find space for 50 extra
>fuel modules. (it can't be done by unstreamlining either but that's another
>story.
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated :)
>
>Allen
According to the original Traders & Gunboats, a Gazelle (with drop tanks
attached during jump) had a performance of J-4.  By using the fuel in the
tanks and dropping them (hence "drop" tanks), then jumping, it could get
J-5.  After dropping the tanks, and until they could be replaced, the
onboard fuel supply limited the ship to J-2.

Maneuver was always, M-4 with tanks attached, and M-5 dropped.

Jimmy Simpson
	nimrodd@fastlane.net
"Cannot say.
 Saying, I would know.
 Do not know.
 So cannot say."
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 20:24:30 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

>> a.  Instead of putting all this terribly expensive Fire Control equipment on
>> ships, just install a transponder 'pinger' in the warheads of missiles.
>> Fire and forget - the missile will start pinging the transponder, the box
>> will respond and the missile gets a new fix on the target.  (For more fun
>> and kicks, install another Deyo box in the missile and let the two talk it
>> up...)
>> 
>Now _that's_ a smart bomb!  ;-D

  "But if all I know about the outside universe is from my senses, then I
really don't know anything about it all!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:30:36 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: New Disadvantage

> 	Can you still run the character if you take UB: Zombie?  (And,
> for those of you who think there can be no zombies in a non-magical
> environment, take a look at the Larry Niven short story "Night on Mispec
> Moor", from his "N-Space" collection!) :)

Hmm...a new supplement..."Rotting Zombies of the Fighting Imperium"...

being undead (as opposed to dead) is an advantage :)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:17:45 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Transponders

Several people seem to have a problem with transponders being required to
operate in imperial space. I used to wonder about this, but came to the
following conclusion for MTU:

In order to operate more than 6 parsecs from the "official" border, you
must have the SDG transponder installed. Non-compliance is met with
forcible siezure of vessel, pending investigation. Cooperation is expected
(and in most Zhodani cases, given quickly), as non-cooperation results in
being considered a "Hostile Invading Force" and met with violence. If in
pirate infested or other tx-hazardous environments, failure to squawk on
demand is the key point.

Also, most other interstellar govs will require THEIR Txpdr if you plan on
leaving J4 or j6 range of their "Official" border. Similar circumstances.

Also IMTU, the SDG chip need not be tied into the main computer nor the
main voice systems... IMTU, it merely needs to have it's own antenna and
power feeds. Since most imperial architects KNOW the needed specs, they
will rig it into the normal comm gear (unless otherwise instructed) on the
plans. I figure the Txpdr to be a roughly 6 litre box, plus 1 l or so of
connections and brackets, and the antenna being shared with the commo
system for no space requirement. I figure it has enough internal support
processing (and batteries) for doing it's basic job, and the ability to
continue passive ops for 2 months of no power. Each squawk is worth 1/2 day
or more off the expectancy without power....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:35:45 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Privacy (was encrytion)

>Also, privacy, to many in the US, is a right, not a privelege...as it
>stands now e-mail is not private...any number of prying eyes can read
>this message along the way to your screen.
>
In the state of Alaska, the state constitution guarantees the right to
privacy. (So strongly, in fact, that calling in a complaint for a neighbor
running around their house in the nude with the curtains open gets you a
peeping tom citation and attendant fine.) So taken for granted this right
is that a proposed ammendment would specify that prisoners LOSE the right
to privacy during confinement, parole terms, and probation.

Similarly, many feel that prisoners SHOULD have some right to privacy.

Ob Trav: IMTU, the imperial government specifically denies the right to
privacy for persons remanded by legitimate authority into imperial custody.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:05:15 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Dogs and USAF

First, a problem: about every 3-5 digests, I get a huge file of gibberish. I
gather I am missing good stuff here. Is there anything I can do to correct
this problem. Today, digests 865-867 were each 32 k of this:

    ğ0  Ψ!m  l  0  Ҋ@  K  Μ1  -`   0  Ѐ  1  Ѐ  2  Ѐ  9
Ѐ2  ӄ 2    0  Ѐ4  ү6  [j 8  Ѐ  0 4  ҂ 9  ЀC M  "   R  ҆M
 S  g90T D 2 0  Ҁ@W   1  X 0  ΀2   s502 5  ү3  t1
2 3  Ό7  '4  ̺2 9  ү6 7  ү5   1 6 0 6   4     1     4 1
1   
 9 0   
 D E F E C T I V E  2C: 
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  S  +  N C E  -B  
  L E S S   
  S  њ!,
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  R  ϥ-  S  P -'i
  I N G  2o#)fդ3xZ Y@
  S  
  
 S E   "   ~ȿ "4>M-
   e(6'sƦ
  2  ̤
********************************

Leonard Erickson said:
>>     Basic rule of thumb taught to folks defending against a knife.  "You
>> will get cut."  
>> You may have some input on to when and where...
>
>Sort of like the advice I got about defending against a dog attack. For
>medium size dogs, you basicly "feed" them your arm. That gets the arm
>shredded some, but also means that their mouth is full. You can then
>use the arm as a lever.
>
>Against the *big* dogs, you try to keep them from biting anything
>important. Like your neck...

I was a paper carrier for three years in high school, and got anti-dog lessons
from my older brothers. Carry a length of pipe or a big heavy stick. Don't
run. Face 'em and back slowly away. Feed them the bag if they attack and then
strike to kill with the pipe. Seems most mutts will lock jaws on the first
thing they grab onto, and it that's not a piece of your anatomy, so much the
better. If it is a piece of your anatomy, try to make it your arm (as Leonard
suggests) and shove it deeper into their jaws (evidently it'll take less
damage that way -- never got to try that part out, thank ghod) while you bash
their spine with the pipe...

This technique won't work against an attack-trained dogs, but you seldom run
into those delivering papers. I only had to do it once in three years...
Believe me, having a german shepherd try to eat you really gets your blood
pumping...

I almost forgot the most important part: Try not to be attacked by more than
one at once. In that case, try to hurt the first one real bad real fast,
because if they both get their jaws on you, you are SOL.

Doug Berry said
>Sortry about that, but sometimes the Air Farce really bugs me..

I recall a proposal in the late 1960s suggesting that the USAF turn all
aircraft over to the Army and devote itself solely to being ready to launch
missiles.

It was not popular in some circles.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:43:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Fighters

>From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #852
>
>
>It all comes back to the point of what my ship are toting.  These are MCr
>      85, with Stutterwarp drives and the ability to perform extended
>      system missions. They are armed with the spinals and that all, but
>      they also have advanced stealth and pull 6 gees.  Yes you 20 ton
>      fighter is not going to mean all that much in combat, but mine can
>      move into a new facing many times thoughout the 30 minute combat
>      turn.  But I will agree that many things are built for missions other
>      than straight combat.  There are many jobs in which a combat ship is
>      a liability rather than an advantage since the weapon systems take up
>      so much of it available space.

In my (and Ditzie's) opinion, stealth is vastly over-rated in Traveller
combat. Basically, combat goes out to 2 light seconds or so, and cheap
civilian sensors can pick up ships at those ranges, and medium cost sensors
can provide targetting solutions.

Facing isnt an issue in Traveller combat. Ships dont have 'directional
shields', and weapons tend to be either in turrets or in the nose.

Minor or surface damage is also not that important - well-built miliary
ships tend to have massivly redundant sensor arrays and redundant power
plant radiators. A ship's combat capability is essentially defined by it's
spinal mount, and you need to bite deep into the ship to hurt it.

Megajoulage limits on lasers are the main thing that kills fighters as
line-of-battle systems. To get enough energy into the target, you need
particle accelerators or meson guns, and both have range as a function of
length. By definition, length is something fighters dont have, so they are
limited to lasers.

Fighters also tend to have weak point defense systems - most dont mount
nuke dampers, and many cannot afford rapid-fire (circa 50 megajoules at a
shot per second) lasers.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:03:42 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> The laws of physics are not likely to change in these three dimentions in
> ANY length of time.  There has NEVER in history been an unbeatable security
> system.  If a thing can be built it can be beaten.  YOU propose that such a
> system can exist.  Very well, prove it!  You say that the technology can
> exist, discribe how it works.  I do not expect you to invent it.  All I ask
> is some theorum that might posibly let it exist.  You have not proposed
> anything that can do what you say it should be able to do.  Your system
> could be broken by a moderately competant EE or hacker with a fast computer.

lol. I don't have a system to propose.  I have no clue *how* the anti tamper
circuit would work aside from the description of *what* it does.   The
description should be satsified by whatever current scientific knowledge,
coupled with imagination, says is forseeable.  

you said:

> >> antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
> >> even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
> >> reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a
system
> >> so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI
enviroment,
> >> or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to
change
> >> the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
> >> including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
> >> hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for
dayly

It's not possible for your 'reflected standing wave,' for example, to be
better stabilized by TL15?  How about gravitic compensation/inertial
dampening?  It is stated and I have repeated that malfunctions are allowed in
the system.  They just draw the attention for probably investigation (in
peacetime) and probable destruction (especially in wartime, in a warzone).
Even w/ a no answer, who's to say there can be no invention or discovery, in
the intervening 3 and a half millenia, that *can* permit the description of
the disconnect/anti-tamper circuit to be valid?  How bout w/  nanotechnology?
Is it *possible*?  This is only for the "compensation" to your 'reflected
standing wave,' and not for "improvement" (if you say that's impossible).
I'm not an EE.  If you have experience in that, i respect that, so i'm asking
you.  Will there be *no* other way to do what Survival Margin describes, as
regards the anti-tamper/ system disconnect?

What about pings that go very very fast w/ a miniature fibre-optic system?  Or
better yet, a miniature meson system of "pinging."  Nah... probably way below
the minimum size, but u get my drift.  Yeah, maybe you can duplicate the ping
itself, but how do you interrupt the flow w/o alerting the tamper circuit?
Even one missed or most miniscule error in the ping could well cause the
tamper circuit to fire...  Maybe you'll set it to 100 or whatever (depending
on the ROP-rate of Pinging<g>).   Hows bout any of those?  Set it around
neutrinos, positrons, whatever... lol.  There will be something that should be
uncrackable within the period from 1086 to 1130...  Eventually a flaw will be
found/exploited and the system will be upgraded. In fact, it was...  that
exploitation was Virus, but alas was uncontrollable.

> It does not matter what stores the data the data is known and the data is
> store the storage method can and will be decoded.  You do not understand the
> nature of what you are discribing.  The technobable makes you this is a new
> concept.  It is not.

No I don't.  I'll tell you a secret...  I don't really care, actually.  It's
quite in the license of science-fiction believability that a transponder chip
can tell the difference between an authenticated message and one forged.  You
make up the reason if you don't like the one in Survival Margin...

> I have signal GK.  I have run it.  I know how the processes discribed.  They
> are part of my job.  What they discribe is remotely plausible under the
> specific condition they discribe.  If you had the knowledge then you would
> know that with the proper equipment a person could read and understand the
> mind and memories of that chip just as with the proper equipment (which does
> not yet exist)you could record the entirety of one human's existance.  It is
> also posible to exactly duplicate both!  If these things are posible then
> your chips could be cloned.

Ok.  So?  The chips are said to have a stable,reliable, and slow mutation.  A
cloned chip, even if its mutation didn't vary due to & during the cloning
process, in this somehow would still have all the features the Imperials
geneered the chips to have.

> Those chips are not so suffisticated that it would require this level to
> duplicate.  The circuit scaner in signal GK was enough to recognise and
> recognise the partial schematic inside the life form.  A slightly modified
> scanner combined with the proper electronic probes could have been used to
> clone that chip and it's program and data.  Bang instant duplicate.  There

Ok.  So?  What does this mean?  An 'instant duplicate' does exactly what the
original is  designed to.  Maybe someone w/ the duplicate will try to play
around w/ the design to be able to have "forgable" transponders (which are
supposed to return "false" squawks from your trusty SDG-313F).  To do it in a
way that works (doesn't return false and instead goes on its own) is supposed
to be a TL16-17 program by the certain name of Virus.  Note that Virus was
uncontrollable.  Whether this was due to Lucans impatience (and desperation
facing Dulinors final drive) or to a "controllable" Virus being TL18 or
higher, who knows?

> are any number of fabs in business TODAY that could do this with their TL8
> gear.  It is done ervery day.  In signal GK the chip itself admits that it
> could no longer produce the high quality copies of itself and it's circuits
> that could be done with the help of human technology.  The tech discribes is
> at best mid 20th century.  We use the processes discribed today.

Ok.  So?  So what can the techs of the 57th century do?  What about 57th
century "copy protection?"  

> >An intelligent (lobotimized) being that has access to a databank.  It's a
> >living computer.  The method by which it records information is unforgable
(at
> >least at TL15).  It's not any more far fetched that an intelligent
microchip
> >could tell the difference whether it's been hooked up to a real computer
and
> >comm system than it is for said intelligent chip to exist at all, is it?
> >
> 
> If the data exactly duplicates what it expects to see within the tolerences
> of reality itself it could not know the difference.  Know being of
> instrament could.  Reality (to a living being) is what we percieve NOT what
> it is that we do not percieve.  If we can not percieve a diference then

And how do you know what the transponder chips will be able to percieve or
not?  They were geneered over the course of decades by imperial scientists
seeking to develop and isolate specific traits that would serve their purpose
(being unforgable transponders).  Is it impossible that a being that "lives in
electronics like a duck passes through water" (or however that goes) can
probably tell if it's hooked to a computer (and comm system) or not?  Or maybe
you'd rather dispute the possiblity of such a being?

> there is no diference.  Remember the the signal GK chip had to be given new

The Deyo chips are not just ordinary Cymbeline chips. They're the product of
decades of geneering on said Cymbeline chips.

> sences and taught to use them before it come deal with the human crew.  All
> it had was a very short range radio direction finder system.  The writer of
> signal GK had a good graps of what was posible for the lifeforms he
> portrayed.  You do not.  You have yet to explain how the signals the chips
> sends out differ in any qualitative way that would prevent them from being
> duplicated.  That the chips are alive is not relavant in the least.  How are

What signals?  You talking about the anti-tamper/system disconnect?  Or about
the transponder chatter?  Or both?  

> their signal unforgable?  They can not modulate the EM spectrum in a unique

You can always forge a transponder chatter.  The Transponder probably
understands it fine too.  It still gives you a false squawk because it nows
what it should hear but isn't.

> way.  That is limited by physics.  They may speak their own language but
> that can be learned by a linguiestics program.  Culture can be imulated
> through experience.  And if their mutation rate is 'slow and predictable'
> then that which can predict it can be use to falsify it.  Everything you use
> to say they are unforgable proves that they are forable.  It one chips can
> figure out what the other chip should be saying then so can a computer or a
> person.  The fact they can recognize each other means that other people can
> as well and forge that identity.

Yes. I dispute none of that.  All of that takes time (and vast amounts of
effort and time) and it's a tiered difficulty.  The only time that's needed is
from 1088 to however long the Imperium would have lasted w/o being wasted.
Say a hundred years before a new and updated TL16-17 IFF system is adopted.
And the process repeats.  First is discovering what's inside the black box to
begin with.  Not that hard for someone w/ power and influence and the
motivation for it.  Then have to acquire a SDG-313F chip.  Any chip from
Cymbeline won't do it.  Maybe you get someone in the Research Station Omicron
to get you the mutation rate, etc.   For the sake of argument, say the black
box can be can be disconnected from the ship w/o melting the transponder
chips.  It still can't be opened (unless you think the 'integrity monitor' of
the black box is a flawed concept, too).  You plug it in another ship, it
still says its the original ship.  Somehow you've finally acquired an SDG-313F
chip outside of its black box (or even managed to get in the black box).  Now
what?  You go about wanting to make a forgable version...  

By altering it, Survival Margin says the imperial chips will be able to tell
the difference.  
The only analogy i can think of is trying to simulate a conversation between a
cro-magnon and another human.  They can try to fake the funk but i'm sure both
can probably tell something is very odd bout the other (even if both are
perfectly instructed in good ol Oxford English or 'grogspeak').  Or trying to
get your mac to talk to you pc.  Yeah, there's emulators, but there's a
difference in "feel."  Enough to return a false squawk anyways.

> >> A very basic check system.  Nothing new in this discription and nothing
> >> 'foolproof'.  Easily spoofed.  Their are far more secure structures than
> >> this.  This is not even up to the current encryption standard for
internet
> >> business use and it has been compromized on many occasions.
> >
> >Only how the transponder recorded and verified it's information was
detailed
> >(though you have to accept the workings of the Cymbeline predator in Signal
GK
> >w/ the additional info in Survival Margin) for it to work.  Everything else
> >was left unexplained, including how to build the box (because the writers
> >weren't 57th century EEs).  Maybe you *know* what will and won't be
possible
> >in electronics in 36+ centuries, but not me.  It's no more improbable than
> >laser weapons w/ useful range (much less meson weapons or jump drives)...
> >
> 
> You have accused another resonder that he will not believe you because he
> refuses to do so in the face of your logic.  You are guilty of the same

No, that's not what I said.  I said Hans didn't like them to begin with and he
doesn't.  So any "evidence" he finds that points to any incongruities merely
reinforces his preconceived opinions IMO.   I think that the storyline (of the
life, death, and aftermath of the Third Imperium) should be justified and
reconciled where there are incongruities.  Me and Hans have discussed matters
in this province before.  He doesn't like TNE and i'm not losing sleep about
it.  Traveller is Traveller is Traveller. : )

I just say they're no more improbable than starship laser weapons w/ useful
range (much less jump drives, Aslan, Droyne, and meson weapons/screens).

> offence.  You say something is SO because it is what you WANT to be so.  You

It *is* so,  according to Survival Margin.  YMMV. : )

> freely admit that you are not an EE yet you claim insight into electronic
> that is superior to that of a praticing EE.  Do you make a habit of going to

lol. Where did I do that?  I know squat about EE and I don't have a care to
(at least for now).

> a doctor or other professional and then discarding his opinion in perference
> to your own when you have no first hand knowledge in that field?

Nope. : )

> You abmit the the traveller adventure contradics you but still you say you
> are right.  How can this be?  Can you reconsile the conflict?  If not the
> can you at least be reasonable to admit that you could be wrong.

You've removed my meaning from the context it was presented in.  What I
admitted was that The Traveller Adventure is just as easily moved to 1086 IMTU
as it is in the 1100 era, and that the transponders of TTA are the pre-Deyo
transponders (adopted in 1088 w/ a 12 year retrofit period).  Hmm... 12 years
makes 1100... what's the date of TTA?  I'm assuming 1105 or so.  Being in the
Spinward Marches (I presume) and thus a backwater, maybe one can justify TTAs
transponders being the old style even in 1105. Ya think?  ; )

> Also you did not address the sociological effects that would come from your
> version of the transponder that I and others pointed out.  How do you
> explain that the traveller universe as discribed in canon has not been
> effected by such far reaching bigbrotherism?

I got this in a latter post, making a seperate topic for it (Transponder's
true nature is becoming too big an umbrella).  All the transponder records is
registry information, man! lol.  I don't believe in the Black UN helicopters
(regardless of whether they believe in me <g>). 

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 02:02:42 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: fighters

While fighters may not be good against 'real warships', it was pointed out
that they can do a number on non-military ships, and probably against
military supply ships as well.

A commerce raider would draw the escort vessel out, while it's previously
detached fighters come in on another vector to nail the merchants.

To use a Space Opera example, in "Honor Harrington: On Basilisk Station",
Commander Harrington dispatches two of her pinnaces (each the size of a
'pre-space' jumbo jet) to deal with enforcing customs at the transfer
point.  The pinnaces were no match for a warship, but it's laser was more
than enough to keep merchies in line.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:20:27 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

> >Mmm... no.  The transponder only kept a current and running history of the
> >registry, not everywhere it went, what it did,etc etc.  Only when the
Captain
> >changed, teh ship name changed, etc etc.  Easy there, I least of anyone
want
> >to trample on your free traders' freedom. : )
> >
> 
> You just contradicted yourself.  You said it could not be forged because of
> the 'chatterbox' function and all the data that was swapped like what ships
> it met and when ect.  Also how would anybody know what was going on in the

That's not what I said.  The 'chatterbox function' only ensures that an
authentic transponder is there.   The chips can tell by chatting w/ each other
whether they're authentic or not.  The information is all passed back and
forth, but that information (which is called up to the consol by a "squawk")
is limited to registry info (home port, captain, ship name, etc etc).  I dont'
know where you got those other impressions.

> sealed box if they were not allowed to inspect it?  How would you force the

The general public does not.

> free merchants of the merchant merine to use them if they all said no?  They

There's these Big Sticks (tm) called the Imperial Navy and Imperial Marines.
It's a velvet glove on an iron fist.  'Nuff said.  

> are organized you know.  A nice Empire wide boycott untill the Empire
> starved or opened the books up to expert repesntatives of the MM.  Sorry, it
> just does not work.  The 'chatterbox' concept would either make the Empire
> into something it is not or it would be removed.  And do not try to say that
> people would not know they were exchanging the data.  It is sent in the EM
> sectrum so it can be intercepted and any signal can be decoded with enough
> examples and as the box talks all the time...

Huh?  What are you talking about?  A mixture of Big Brother paranoia and EM
spectrum?  

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:26:10 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Tech advancement (was: Transponder's true nature )

heh... getting alot of threads out of this...

> Yeah, but ways around these things will also improve with time.
> Any claim that talks about how technology will make things
> foolproof is suspect and always ignores advances that will
> counter that device.

Liike armor and weapons?  Things change.  Theres nothing to say the
"offensive-defensive" (spoof and counterspoof) balance couldn't go the other
way in a few thousand years... 

Gary 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 98 02:07:49 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

On 10/02/98 at 12:05 AM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>Leonard Erickson said:

>>Sort of like the advice I got about defending against a dog attack. For
>>medium size dogs, you basicly "feed" them your arm. That gets the arm
>>shredded some, but also means that their mouth is full. You can then
>>use the arm as a lever.

>>Against the *big* dogs, you try to keep them from biting anything
>>important. Like your neck...

>I was a paper carrier for three years in high school, and got
>anti-dog lessons from my older brothers. Carry a length of pipe or a
>big heavy stick. Don't run. Face 'em and back slowly away. Feed them
>the bag if they attack and then strike to kill with the pipe. 

<snip>

Shudder!  Ya'll are bringing back bad memories.  I've *had* this
experience.

I wouldn't recommend this as a course of action, but...

...when I was 16 I waded into a dog fight between a doberman that
had broken his chain and the family mutt trying to protect his
home...dumb, but that mutt was *my* dog and he'd have done the same
for me, well maybe not, but I would for him.

I reckon you shove your arm down the dog's throat to stop them from
letting go, folks, because if you hurt the SOB it *will* let go and
try for something more vital.  He let go of my left arm when I
whacked him up side the head and went for my neck, luckily he missed
and that's when I got mad.

Honestly, it was him or me at that point, my mutt had run under the
car and was cheering from the sidelines.  ;-> I fully intended to
kill that dog bare handed.  I put my hands in his mouth all right,
several punches right to the snout...try to bite ME would he!!  I
was totally berserk at that point.  The only thing that saved the two
of us was the dog coming to its senses.  I really do remember seeing
something like shock in that dog's eyes, like it suddenly realized
it shouldn't be here doing this, and with tail tucked it ran home
with me chasing it right to the edge of our property.  Man, I was
the hairless ape, gibbering and throwing rocks, sticks, a lawn
chair..if I'd been wearing shoes I'd have chunked them too!

When it was over, I got 16 stitches and a bloody lip out of it, the
dog got a broken tooth and a cut on his nose.  But I defended my
territory and he stayed away from it, and my mutt after that.

It was good that it was a doberman and not a heavier dog, like the
big pit bull we've got next door now.  I might not have faired so
well. ;->

Now on a more *reasonable* mode...individual dogs don't usually
attack for no (dog) reason.  Mostly they're protecting their
territory from a threat, and if they get excited they get a little
fuzzy about what their territory is.  I guess I'm just too stubborn
to give them *my* territory.  

Loren's right...never run.  Dog instinct is to chase things that
run.  Face them with your hands at your sides, and talk to them
quietly, they'll usually calm down a little if you don't approach
them and you can begin to move away.  If they follow and bark/growl,
stop and repeat the process.  You can't let them spook you into
running, and NEVER let them get around to your back.  That's one
reason packs are bad.

>I almost forgot the most important part: Try not to be attacked by
>more than one at once. In that case, try to hurt the first one real
>bad real fast, because if they both get their jaws on you, you are
>SOL.

Packs are bad, real bad.  One dog is a dog, two or more dogs with
out a human controlling them is a pack.  Dogs in an uncontrolled
pack are NOT "man's best friend" they are one of our deadliest
enemies.  Unlike most predators dog packs aren't afraid of us.  I
*don't* like packs!  Use a rifle on an uncontrolled pack.

Ob Trav:  One Vargr is fine, but don't let 'em congregate!  They are
dangerous in packs. ;->


Eris,
    I have the scars, but I'm still too dumb to be afraid of dogs.
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 23:08:31 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/30/98 7:41:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ashock@gte.net
> writes:
>
> <<  it's tough to find space for 50 extra
>  fuel modules. (it can't be done by unstreamlining either but that's another
>  story. >>
>
> The CT Gazelle IS unstreamlined.

No it is Partially Streamlined, it could scoop,but not land.

> The Fiery variant is streamlined...



- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #871
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 872



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: G:T Questions
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
FF&S2 Errata
Re: GT: Alien Races 1
Behind the Claw
Re: GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)
GURPS Trav- my own nits
Imperial Transponders....
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: knife fights
Re: Climing around in ductwork
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: knife fights
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:31:24 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

dberry@hooked.net wrote:

> At 03:27 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called of
> >all things "GURPS: Psionics".
>
> Yes, but..
>
> I've collect GURPS books for years, so I already have all the books
> mentioned, along with a few (dozen) others.  Traveller/Illuminati anyone?

Damn, these Templars are just like roachs. Kill one ane a dozon more appear.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 00:51:27 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Bingo...reread the relevant section of the TNE manual...they describe
> Virus as 'a life form that inhabits electronic systems like a fish
> inhabits water' They cannot exist outside of a electronic circuit, but
> given a physical connection they can move from one system to another.
> The Virus was derived from a strain of Cymbeline chip that had evolved
> to impress it's circuitry on others from a distance, using
> electromagnetic signals.

<Snip-a-ruinie>

 Bruce, man, that was Beautiful.
Mind if I clip that and add it to my TNE players packet?

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 01:00:16 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Questions

Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Clark, William writes:
> >
> >      1) Is it appropriate to ask questions here concerning GURPS
> > as long as it pertains to Traveller (i.e., non basic GURPS rules
> > questions)?
> The gurps mailing list (gurpsnet-l@io.com) might be more likely to know
> answers, if they relate directly to GURPS, though there's some crossovers in
> any case.

I would that is the way to go. BTW, there are as many gearheads on the
gurpslist as there are here, and the minutia gets mighty obscure.

> >      2) It states in the book that the alternate timeline takes
> > place in the year 1120.  (p. 9, the section In a Nutshell [continued]
> > - quote: It is now the 1120th year of that Third Imperium....).
> > Yet the current TNS entry is dated 289-1116.  Any particular reason
> > for the difference?
> The divergence is in 1116, with the emperor not being assassinated, at a guess.

That's what I would say, But 1120 is better year due to the speed information.

> >      3) The section on starship combat states that combat is fought
> > on a hex map where the hex is about 10,000 miles.  The Space Weapons
> > Table on p. 173 gives the range of the weapons in 2,000 mile hexes.
> > Shouldn't these numbers in the table be divided by 5?
> Hm...didn't notice that.  Sounds like an errata.

Looks like it to me.

> >      4) In the Direct Fire Phase of the Space Combat Sequence under
> > determining damage it says Subtract target DR (modifier by armor
> > divisor).  What is an armor divisor?
>
> Under the description for X-ray lasers, it indicates that they divide DR by 2.
> That means it has an armor divisor of 2.

 Right on the money.

I just got GT yesterday and I'm sold.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 04:08:36 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> It was good that it was a doberman and not a heavier dog, like the
> big pit bull we've got next door now.  I might not have faired so
> well. ;->

If a pit bull got a hold of my arm or leg, I think there would be no
no choice but to gouge its eyes, unless I had something sharp that
I could reach its brain with through the ear or the eye.

As I understand it, when they lock that jaw, it stays locked.

Bloo

P.S.  The friendliest, happiest, gentlest dog I ever encountered was
a doberman who had not had its ears and tail clipped.  Surely, there
is no intelligent reason to maim these dogs.

Ob. Trav., do humans and other races treat the two main species of
Vargr any differently?  And do they treat different species of human
differently?  (I could see the average Vargr respecting the 'wolfling'
nature of the Solomani, to steal a term from Brin, than the traditionnal
Vilani.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:12:44 +0100
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

Jimmy Simpson wrote:

> According to the original Traders & Gunboats, a Gazelle (with drop tanks
> attached during jump) had a performance of J-4.  By using the fuel in the
> tanks and dropping them (hence "drop" tanks), then jumping, it could get
> J-5.  After dropping the tanks, and until they could be replaced, the
> onboard fuel supply limited the ship to J-2.

I never used drop tanks in any of my CT designs so didn't really get into them
too much. But, for the Gazelle to make J5 it assumes that all J fuel gets used
up inserting the ship into J-space. Is this the canon view? My personal take on
the J fuel thing is that the J drive uses the fuel whilst in J-space, so by
dropping the tanks you've just lost yourself 100 tons of fuel and have to run
the rest of the jump on internal tanks.
I see drop tanks as being used to extend range by making 2 jumps.
Comments?

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:48:19 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: FF&S2 Errata

I've been trying to get a hold of the official errata for FF&S2.
There are links at various sites on the Traveller webrings, but I keep
getting errors (usually 404's).

Does anyone have a copy they could send me?
I've been steadily working through the book and would like to see if I
have been over-enthusiastic...

Thanks.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:15:37 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: GT: Alien Races 1

On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Christopher Thrash wrote:

> The page for David Pulver's GT: Alien Races 1 is up on the SJGames website:
> 
> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/AlienRaces/

How much of the material in this book will be GURPS specific? Is it worth
purchasing if I have never read GURPS, and only have the T4 rules?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:20:20 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Behind the Claw

Is this supplement worth purchasing if I only have the T4 rulesset? I have
never read GURPS...

Since Imperium Games stopped their production, I have to look to new
sources of material... I really hope I can use this.

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 02:39:26 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)

"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> wrote

> Below is a conversion of the Imperiallines Frontier Trader. I would 
> like very much to have anyone review the conversion and comment
 
> GURPS: Traveller
> Imperiallines Frontier Transport Type TI
> (Converted from The Traveller Adventure)
> Basic Tech Level:10

The Ti is externally equivilant to the secret Jump 6 type TJ.  Jump 6
means TL15 (GTL 12).  If the types were of different TL's they would not
appear identical as on would have a different type of hull, therefore
the TI _must_ be Gurps TL 12.  This will require redesign of the ship.

> PR: 235

I assume you mean DR: 235

> Jump: 3

> 60 Jump   Mass:240  Spaces:60

Jump requires n+1 % of the hull in spaces (tons) so a 2000 space hull
should have _80_ Jump, not 60.

Otherwise this looks good. The TI is supposed to be better of if water
or cradle landed not landed on the ground. It might be possible (using
GURPS) Vehicles to design your version so it also has this problem (as
would many larger ships).  IIRC GUrps Vehicles 1 had ground pressure but
I don't recall if Vehicles 2nd ed does.

- -- 
Member in Good Standing of The Society to Turn Wesley Crusher Into a
Small Styrofoam Dodecahedron

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 10:57:47 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: GURPS Trav- my own nits

On Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:49:05 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:14:28 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: GURPS Trav- my own nits

>   1)  THIS IS NOT TRAVELLER!!!   This is Traveller thru a GURPS lens.  I have
>always held that GURPS is a good system, but it has that word in it:  GENERIC.
>I don't believe it can give the overiding attention to detail to the Trav
>universe that a Traveller game can.  Loren Wiseman has obviously put his heart
>and soul into making this project the best he can...and he deserves every
>accolade that he could possible get for it.   But I truly wish that this
>obvious enthusiasm could have gone into T5 w/ Mr. Miller...or that SJG would
>have let this be done as a stand alone system not using GURPS.

Sight unseen, I tend to agree with this. I simply do not see how you can
successfully use a point build character system to represent the character
generation system that has been basically used in all editions of traveller from
day one. And, while there were flaws in that system, it was always the heart and
soul of the thing as far as I'm concerned.

HOWEVER ...

>My personal take (FWIW) is that for me and mine, the best Trav system was
>MT...w/ the caveat that the idea behind MT was the best (that is, to update
>and streamline CY).  I feel that looking at it from 10 years later, with all
>the errata in place (the major killer to the MT system)  and the abandonment
>of the Rebellion/Virus plotline (although the Rebellion is salvageable IMO)

While I agree that Rebellion is *definitely* salvageable, I disagree *violently*
about the MTrav game system. It sucked, frankly, major-league sucking, in fact.

The best system was that used in TNE, where, of course, the background and
unwarranted changes to the "canon" of Traveller were completely unwarranted.

Next best was T4, followed by CTrav.

And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten people from
this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system as being
the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\

Sure, I don't think that GURPS as a character system works with Traveller, but
there seems no reason to me why the template system that is supposedly included
would not work, or why some sort of "package" system a la Hero Games would not
be a suitable way of getting around the silly minimaxing that GURPS inevitably
seems to end up with.

Or, you can do what most people on the list will do, use your own home brew
rules.

Personally, when I get the time, I will be writing a "proper" SF version of
Armageddon and use it for my Traveller campaign.

>the MT sytem came closest to doing what every system since CT
>promised...making everything work w/ one simple system.  Like I said...the

Again, this will only attract disagreement, most of it violent!

GURPS is at least better in that it has fewer partisans violently against it on
this list (or seems to ... I'm sure they'll delurk on that statement!) than any
of the other systems.

Thats why we'll never see a return to TNE or MTrav ... T4 may mutate into T5,
but TNE and MTRav systems are dead and gone whether you like them or not.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 02:57:36 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Imperial Transponders....

Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone elese) with the
Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they did
make said scan they never said or did anything about it?


- -- 
Member in Good Standing of The Society to Turn Wesley Crusher Into a
Small Styrofoam Dodecahedron

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 07:03:11 -0400
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm wrote:
> 
> Is this supplement worth purchasing if I only have the T4 rulesset? I have
> never read GURPS...
> 

If you are running T4 Milieu 0 era BtC won't be of much use.

> Since Imperium Games stopped their production, I have to look to new
> sources of material... I really hope I can use this.
> 

You might want to consider switching to Gurps, if you can find a copy in
Sverige.  G:T is IMHO far superior to T4.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:38:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

In mail you write:

> At 12:05 PM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>     When has this not been true for any role playing game.
>
> My copy of CORPS cost me $17 with my store discount, and it's all I've ever
> needed.

As I recall my copy of En Garde cost $5-7. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:48:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

In mail you write:

> At 11:30 PM 9/30/98 PST, you wrote:
>
>>> When I was at Ft. Benning, an USAF type explained the joys of hooking such
>>> a system up to an AC-130 Spectre.
>>>
>>> Using a Mk19 AGL would make sense, but I was thinking of the advantage of
>>> having a nearly solid line of tracers reaching the enemy position.
>>
>>*Nearly* solid? Hell, all the footage I've seen makes them look like a
>>solid bar of light (much like an old-fashioned Grade-B movie "death ray")
>
> In real life you can make out the flickering of the individual tracers.
> Also, they bounce when the hit the ground, making for a cool fireworks
> display.

That just makes it look *more* like a cheap special effect!

I'd bet you a cookie that if you showed silent footage of an attack to
someone from say WWII, they'd ber *certain* it was from a Buck Rogers
serial! 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:52:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: knife fights

In mail you write:

> At 23:40 30/09/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>I rather liked the way it was described to me. 
>>
>>"Shove your arm down its throat until you can rip its lungs out."
>>
>>Of course that requires unlikely targeting skills. But it *does* ensure
>>that the dog is too busy choking and strangling to do anything further
>>to you. 
>
> I strongly recommend that in the event that you are attacked by a Bull
> Terrier that you don't mess this up, because if you do the dog will very
> likely shear a large chunk of your hand right off, without being
> significantly slowed down. Personally I think that employing a gun or
> baseball bat before they get that close is the way to go.

As I said, that'd require unlikely targeting skills. The "preferred"
method is to cram your arm in "sideways". That way, it's your forearm
in the mouth, and they'd have to be able to shear the bones to bite
through. 

A little gizmo I've got to track down the pland for is quite effective.
It uses focused ultrasound and *feels* like you got hit in the head
with a baseball bat (or a fair sized rock). I can state this for
certain as I inadvertently simulated one when a friend was working on
an alarm system.

I'm one of the folks who can hear well into the "ultrasound" range. I
thought I could hear the ultrasonic transducers from the system, so I
picked one up to bring it closer to my ear to make sure. 

*Big* mistake. The resulting doppler shift brought it into the range
the "stun" gizmo uses. I thiought my head had exploded. It felt a lot
like the time my kid brother bounced a fist sized rock off my head.

They aren't working on it for use against humans since it causes
cerebral hemoragging in some subjects. But against a dog that's
attacking you, who cares?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:13:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Climing around in ductwork

In mail you write:

> Something along the lines of the thin CalTech does where the
> students configure crazy ways of sealing their dorm room doors
> and other students have to figure out how to get in.

A friend's brother went to CalTech.

He tells of the guy who posted a list of all the things he'd done to
protect his room. Everyone looked it over and they couldn't figure out
a way to get past the stuff. Then it occurred to someone... 

"I don't see how *he* can get back in!"

Yep. He'd assumed they'd figure a way in. So they just sat back and
watched. It took him three days to get back into his room.

Another guy had his room left alone. They just removed the molding from
around the door. Then they removed the doorknob and built up the
surface of the door until it was even with the wall. A little spackle,
a little paint, and there was just blank wall where the door had been. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:06:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

In mail you write:

> In mail you write:
>
>> Reminds me of the war story one of my sergeants told me about Grenada
>> (before I became a sergant and started collecting war stories in 
> Panama
>> and the Gulf):
>>
>> He was out and about during the early days of Urgent Fury, when a 
> sniper
>> started shooting in his area.  He used the most powerful manpackable
>> weapon to take out the sniper:  an AN/PRC-77, with a CEOI listing
>> someone sho could talk to the zoomies.  In other words, he called in 
> an
>> air strike on the sorry SOB.  C'est la guerre....
> =========================
>
> I've been told a similar story from Vietnam.  My friend was on patrol, 
> when they came upon a similar patrol of NVA regulars.  They got on the 
> horn, got hold of a flight of F4s whose target had been cancelled.  They 
> came in on this "concentration" of NVAs, each dropped 4 500 lb bombs, 
> and blew the top off the hill they were on.     =0

The one I heard from a friend had his unit pinned down by a bunch of
NVA. They were on one side of a vally, the NVA were on the other. 

Apparently it was a busy day as there was a bit of trouble finding
support. Finally they got patched to somebody. They gave the map
co-ordinates, and got told "On the way".

They waited. And suddenly the ridge with the NVA disappeared. They'd
been patched thru to the New Jersey...

:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 05:12:27 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

>
>Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone elese) with the
>Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
>transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they 
did
>make said scan they never said or did anything about it?
>

There WAS a Zhodhani spy who did just that.  He was at the research 
station.  Unfortunately, when he scanned them, the chips responded and 
caught his viral infection when he sneezed....  And the rest is history.  
The Imperials thought they had a breakthrough, and the Zho just quietly 
disappeared...

And then Strephon woke up...


The Count,
MonteCristo@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 05:22:28 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: knife fights

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:34:06 +1200
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: knife fights
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

At 23:40 30/09/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>I rather liked the way it was described to me. 
>
>"Shove your arm down its throat until you can rip its lungs out."
>
>Of course that requires unlikely targeting skills. But it *does* ensure
>that the dog is too busy choking and strangling to do anything further
>to you. 

I strongly recommend that in the event that you are attacked by a Bull
Terrier that you don't mess this up, because if you do the dog will very
likely shear a large chunk of your hand right off, without being
significantly slowed down. Personally I think that employing a gun or
baseball bat before they get that close is the way to go.

=====================================

And everyone remember, if you dont have a weapon handy, feed him one 
arm, and use the other hand to gouge his eyes, believe me, he'll let go.

Jim


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 05:53:28 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 98 02:07:49 -0500
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

On 10/02/98 at 12:05 AM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>I almost forgot the most important part: Try not to be attacked by
>more than one at once. In that case, try to hurt the first one real
>bad real fast, because if they both get their jaws on you, you are
>SOL.

Packs are bad, real bad.  One dog is a dog, two or more dogs with
out a human controlling them is a pack.  Dogs in an uncontrolled
pack are NOT "man's best friend" they are one of our deadliest
enemies.  Unlike most predators dog packs aren't afraid of us.  I
*don't* like packs!  Use a rifle on an uncontrolled pack.

======================

Your dead right on that, got attacked by two mongrels when I was 18, I 
was out in the woods, and I guess I wandered into their territory.  
Anyway, when I saw one start to move behind me, I took my walking staff 
and went right at the other one, one good swing to the head and he was 
out.  The other backed off when I turned to face him.  Good thing there 
weren't three or more, I would not have been so lucky.

Jim

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 06:02:34 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)

- ----Original Message Follows----
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Spectre (was re: Firearm Safety)
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:06:51 PST
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

In mail you write:


The one I heard from a friend had his unit pinned down by a bunch of
NVA. They were on one side of a vally, the NVA were on the other. 

Apparently it was a busy day as there was a bit of trouble finding
support. Finally they got patched to somebody. They gave the map
co-ordinates, and got told "On the way".

They waited. And suddenly the ridge with the NVA disappeared. They'd
been patched thru to the New Jersey...

:-)

====================

ROFL!!

I've heard that a marine unit in the Gulf had come upon a bunker.  It 
commanded the whole area around it, so they tried to get an air strike 
on it, but no one was available at the time.  Not wanting to sit and 
wait for one, the CO kept at it, till he got the battleship out in the 
Gulf (the Missouri??  I forget which one)  He gave them the coords, and 
was told the package was on its way.  They soon heard that ripping 
sheets sound of heavy arty, and the bunker and its little hill 
disappeared, and he thanked the ship.  The person he was talking to said 
'Hey, got any other targets?  I got 8 rounds still loaded!!'

Jim

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:11:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

>Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

>The G:Traveller ship design system includes power plants as parts of 
>components -- while this does simplify matters, it tends to generate
>a slight excess of power plant, and has really strange effects when
>doing things such as adding weaponry to a ship.  It also causes problems
>for mapping, if you want to know how big your power plant is.  I made
>this stuff for the playtest, separating out the power plant from major
>power-using components, but it was either not wanted or lost in the noise
>(signal/noise ratio in the G:T playtest could have been higher).  This
also
>includes a few other useful modules, such as variable size spinal
weaponry.

<A few modules snipped to save bandwidth>

This is by far the best system for module construction in GT yet.  I have
been running myself ragged calculating and recalculating and even making a
spreadsheet to make new modules for GT.  Mr. Jackson has cut out the
middleman and passed the savings on to you!

>Module: 'unpowered turret fusion gun'
>    As CT fusion guns only fit 2 to a turret, this is a 1.5 space weapon.
>    It is also compact.  It is 1 GJ fusion gun, damage 5d*500, power
>    consumption 33 MW, 1/2D 4000, max 12,000.  At TL 11 this rises to
>    6d*500, 1/2D 4200, max 12,600.  Price is 2.32 million.  A fusion
>    gun can fit in a turret along with one other weapon (including
another
>    fusion gun).

Oh MAN!  This is great!  I too have been working on a fusion gun.  It
seems we came upon the same conclusion.  Great minds...

>Module: 'unpowered turret PAW-X'
>    At TL 10, 12 tons and $.54M, draws 12 MW (multiply weight/cost/volume
X^2);
>    damage is 6d*250*X, range is 2400*X.  Beam energy is 360 MJ * X^2.
>    At TL 11+, increase damage to 6d*300*X, range to 2500*X.
>    Spinal versions of these weapons are possible.  Reduce weight and
volume
>    by 30%, cost remains the same (conveniently, the power plant is .3
spaces
>    per space of weapon).  The bay mount in GT is a turret-6 (36 spaces
plus
>    11 spaces of power plant).  The spinal mount in GT is a spinal-40
(1120
>    spaces plus 480 spaces power plant; due to my rounding conventions
the
>    actual weight/volume is slightly lower).  X may have a minimum value,
>    though based on the G:T book it doesn't really (100 MJ is below
threshold).
>    A class T spinal mount is a PAW-100, taking up 7,000 spaces.
>Module: 'unpowered turret meson-X'
>    At TL 10, 12 tons and $1.16M, draws 12 MW, all multiplied by X^2.
Damage
>    is 6d*160*X, 1/2D range is 2000*X, max is 6100*X.  At TL 12, use
stats
>    for a TL 10 PAW.  Spinal versions are possible as above.

These are by far the best modules.  These simplify the making of weapons
of all sizes.  From turrets to Bays to Spinals.  One question, any chances
of a Laser-X weapon?  I've been working on the "powered" version of a
50ton X-Laser bay an I can tell you that these weapons are brutal.  Long
range and high dammage.  Maybe these weapons were ommitted from the GT
book for a reason?  FNORD!

This is going to make my job alot easier, as you know I am working on
10ton "pod" weapons for small ships IMTU.
Be interesting to see how (or if) our summs match up.


Again, this is some excelent work.  Many Kudos.  

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #872
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 873



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: MT Boarding
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships 
Re: Climing around in ductwork
GT module system 
Re: Behind the Claw
GT stores plea?
Packs (was: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: knife fights
Re: Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships (Drop Tanks)
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships (Drop Tanks)
re: Nits
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:33:46 -0400
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: MT Boarding

Charles Prevatte writes:
>remote detonated claymores.
>GATLING lazer cannons
>plazma genades
>shaped charges
>'bomb bots' with lazers and limpet mines.
Sorry, I generally follow previous list conclusions that you don't really
want to use much more than shotguns inside ship if you ever want to fly it
again.

Let me also state my general assumptions about boarding.
The boarders generally want to ship, crew, passengers and cargo intact. It
is clear the target ship has been disabled, but not surrendered. Or the
surrender terms offered were not acceptable. An intact ship can be flown
under its own power and disposed of much easier. Intact cargo is worth
money. Intact crew and passengers are worth ransom (or money being sold
into slavery).
The ship being borded is not necessarily as terribly desparate as people
have painted. They do not need to win their own ship and the other ship,
rather they just need to put up enough of a defense to get better terms of
surrender. For example they may offer to jettison the cargo and be left in
their own ship.


I like the bit about pikes. That is certainly something to consider. I had
thought of a device that uses a HE round on the tip of a short staff or
spear. A bit like the thing you use to give a coup de gras to a cow before
slaughter. In a close quarter's fight something like this would allow you
the use of a HE device with sufficient accuracy that you don't have to
worry about damage to the ship.

Sorry, out of time, more comments to follow...

Jo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:47:29 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:


>The point is that if it's proven to be unforgable (and the Imperials have no
>back door in there), it's as effective for the foreign polities to use it as
>is it for the Imperials.

Gary, it is impossible to prove a negative. The only way the foreign
governments could be sure that the Imperials didn't have a back door would
be if they had the complete specifications. And even then they couldn't be
sure that the Imperials didn't have a different one tucked away that did
have a back door. And how would they know which type was in any given
transponder? That would require that they had unlimited access to inspect
them.

And even if the Imperial could prove all of this, human nature is such that
the professional paranoiacs of those foreign governments would be quite sure
that the Imperials had pulled a fast one. At the very least I can't see any
of them being willing to run the risk.

Finally, you ignored the point that the foreign governments would not be
thriiled to have the TRUTH of their ship movements freely available to the
Imperials.

>>You misunderstand me. The above is exactly what I mean by programming. That
>>information must be entered at the starship registration office. But the
>>chip have no way of knowing that it is true.
> 
>That information can never be changed. [...] The point is a running history
>is kept. [...] The transponder still tells everyone Captain Schmuck once
>owned it, and allows the bounty hunters sent by the bank to have the
>starport not allow your ship in the traffic patterns. The same for piracy
>etc.  

OK. It's obviously useless to try to convince you that the Deyo transponders
can be forged. Apparently you don't mind that this specifically is contrary
to various previously published material and by inference invalidates quite
a few other CT and MT adventures (those where such a transponder would make
the action either impossible or suicidal). So let me ask you one simple
question: Is this the sort of game environment you want to run your
Traveller adventures in? A world where the movements of every ship is
plotted with complete presision and with no way to avoid it? 
 
>>>The transponders are in black boxes and delivered to starports in bulk.
>>>When installed in a ship, they're told what ship they're installed in,
>> 
>>But the _human_ who installs it may lie to it.
> 
>To no practical end.  See above.

It's propably wasted effort, but I'll try once more. The big point of these
unforgable transponders is that if the approaching ship tells you that it is
the merchant ship "Completely Harmless" then you know that it is indeed the
"Completely Harmless". But if the pirate ship "Predator" has had an extra
transponder installed and that transponder has been told that it has been
installed in the "Completely Harmless", then it will say so. Later you can
get rid of the fake transponder and return to being the innocent starmerc
"Predator".

>>The Imperial Navy will absolutely _require_ a transponder variant that can
>>lie. These special transponders can be stolen and put on the black market.
>
>Why?

Does anyone else besides Gary have trouble understanding why the Imperial
Navy would like to be able to conceal their ship movements and even put out
misinformation?
 
>>And even if they were, it wouldn't alter the fact that they conflict with
>>other parts of the canon. You may not like the fact that Traveller had a
>>life before you began playing, but you're going to have to learn to live
>>with it. The Traveller canon did not start with MT.
>  
>And you may not like the fact that the official universe keeps going after
>you started playing.

Not like it? I love it. The more information I have about my campaign
universe, the better I'm pleased. As long as it fits the previously
established material, of course.

>Traveller "canon" did not end w/ original Traveller. Can you live w/ that?

As long as the new material is both self-consistent and consistent with
previously published material, then I welcome it.

>It didn't stay stuck in a rut in the road, but developed and improved.

That seems to be the difference between us. You see _any_ development,
however silly, as an improvement. I only see the improvements as
improvements.

>You're not just trying to be dense, are you?

In the interest of moving this discussion along I'll refrain from the
obvious rejoinder.
 
>>Well, the Solomani may not like the idea of a widespread spy network that
>>tells the TRUTH about their ship movements.
>
>How are their ship movements uncovered?  You're not setting up a straw man
>for yourself, are you? There is this little "mute" button. 

Every time a merchant ship encounters an IN ship it will be able to provide
the warship with complete information about the movements of all ships that
has used its transponder near a merchant ship with which it has been in
contact. Not as a result of a special effort on the part of the IN, but as
a nice little bonus. Granted that the IN can get most of this information
on its own, it still cost a lot less and is far more comprehensive that
anything the IN could set up for itself.
 
>>>No. Just making a point that a limited number of locations (much less one
>>>location) can be made effectively invulnerable to espionage and corruption.
>> 
>>That's why the Russian don't have the atom bomb, right?
> 
>So the Imperium has learned none of the lessons since, right? And their
>intelligence aparatus is no more effective that that of the US c1950, right?

I don't think human nature has changed much over the years. And would you
like to set your adventures in a universe where the intelligence apparatus
is that effective? 

>Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
>this unlikely to change in 3600 years?

As an interllectual exercise I'm quite prepared to assume that tamperproof
transponders could be made (I don't think the one described in _Survival
Margin_ is one such, but that's by the way). THe real questions are: Do you
think the Traveller universe as described in the rest of the material we
have  --  everything EXCEPT _Survival Margin_, more or less  --  really do
describe a universe where transponders are tamperproof and provide perfect
(after the fact) information about all ship movement? And would you like to
run your adventures in such a universe? 

>...The transponder only kept a current and running history of the registry,
>not everywhere it went, what it did,etc etc.

I thought that was precisely what _Survival Margin_ claimed they did.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:44:01 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: GT Imperiallines Frontier Transport (type TI)


>"Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com> wrote
>
>> Below is a conversion of the Imperiallines Frontier Trader. I would
>> like very much to have anyone review the conversion and comment
>
>> GURPS: Traveller
>> Imperiallines Frontier Transport Type TI
>> (Converted from The Traveller Adventure)
>> Basic Tech Level:10
>
>The Ti is externally equivilant to the secret Jump 6 type TJ.  Jump 6
>means TL15 (GTL 12).  If the types were of different TL's they would not
>appear identical as on would have a different type of hull, therefore
>the TI _must_ be Gurps TL 12.  This will require redesign of the ship.
>
Peter,

My thoughts on this came from the 'advice' in the GURPS book "Civilian ships
are usually TL 10'" and from the Trav. Adventure that the Imperiallines
ships are usually left to look rather run down. I so I planned on using the
TL 10 hull for the TJ but upgrade the drives, weapons etc. to TL12 and play
with the hull armor and number of J and M drive modules accordingly to
balance the calculations. This would give the outward appearance of an older
ship but the performance of a newer ship (assuming that all changes would be
done internally).

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:03:16 -0500 
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

Peter Newman asked:
>
>Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone elese) with the
>Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
>transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they did
>make said scan they never said or did anything about it?

Who says we...I mean, they didn't?

(Hivers couldn't manipulate their way out of a fresher.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 10:18:58 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships 

> Jimmy Simpson wrote:
> 
> > According to the original Traders & Gunboats, a Gazelle (with drop tanks
> > attached during jump) had a performance of J-4.  By using the fuel in the
> > tanks and dropping them (hence "drop" tanks), then jumping, it could get
> > J-5.  After dropping the tanks, and until they could be replaced, the
> > onboard fuel supply limited the ship to J-2.
> 
> I never used drop tanks in any of my CT designs so didn't really get into them
> too much. But, for the Gazelle to make J5 it assumes that all J fuel gets used
> up inserting the ship into J-space. Is this the canon view? My personal take on
> the J fuel thing is that the J drive uses the fuel whilst in J-space, so by
> dropping the tanks you've just lost yourself 100 tons of fuel and have to run
> the rest of the jump on internal tanks.

CT rules state that you burn up all your jump fuel *before* the jump.  Thus, 
if your unladen Jump number is J5, and your onboard fuel lets you do a J2, you 
need 60% of your jump fuel from drop tanks.  So yeah, it's canon.

I can see a case for a 'rapid deployment strike force', designed for J2 
internally & J4 or better with drop tanks.  Under normal conditions, it does 
the J2's, but if it has to go far, fast, strap on the tanks and fly.  This 
would work really good in low tech areas like Reavers' Deep...

> I see drop tanks as being used to extend range by making 2 jumps.
> Comments?

Most designs I've seen & done under High Guard do it that way too; the ship 
carries the normal amount of jump & power plant fuel, and if it has to jump 
into empty space to extend its range, strap on the drop tanks so it has full 
tanks when it jumps into that empty hex and can get back out again.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:18:58 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Climing around in ductwork

  Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 02:05:24 -0400
  From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>

  ringrose@ascent.com wrote:

  > At MIT, there are hackers (not the computer type, the practical joke
  > type -- the ones who do things like put police cars, complete with a
  > ticket ("no permit for this location") and a box of donuts, on the
  > great dome) who enjoy getting into places they're not supposed to be,
  > and finding places which don't appear on maps.  They crawl around in
  > ductwork reasonably often.  And these are real world buildings.

  I particularly like the one where they put a false wall over the entrance to
  a new dean's office, and he couldn't find it.

Actually, they carefully constucted a bulletin board to precisely fit
inside the doorway.  That way, there was no permanent damage (one of
the things in the unwritten agreement between hackers and MIT: hackers
do no permanent damage, and the administration leaves their hacks
around a while).

And it wasn't a dean's office.  It was President Vest, the first day
of his job.

Check out http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/misc/gallery_menu.html for
details on this and others, if you care. :>

  Hmm.  Another Bostonite TMLer.

Yup.  Went and got myself graduated, now I have a job.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  Cornell University 86-90
	  MIT 90-96

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:38:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: GT module system 

I have used Mr. Jackson's system for making GT modules and then compared
them to the weapons I designed using Vehicles.  I have discovered that I
have much to learn about vehicles and how it relates to GT.

I used fractional vaules in Mr. Jackson's PAW and Meson modules to come up
with somthing that alows both the power plant and the weapon to be pl[aced
in a 10 ton module, it is a 'pod' after all and origionaly designed to be
independant.

for the 10 ton PAW  used a PAW Turret-2.75
The weapon came out like this:
7.5spaces(dt)  6d x 825dammage  6875mi 1/2d Range Power Req=90Mw  90tons
4.05Mcr
90Mw is 2.25spaces worth of power plant:
9tons 0.45Mcr

So total the thing is 9.75spaces(round to 10) 99tons and cost 4.45Mcr

Lets look at my original version:
10spaces  100tons  4Mcr
6dx 800  1/2d=10,000(yes I rounded)
3650Mj Beam power

Very close, although I dont know why I needed more power in my
calculation, must be an option I failed to use (shrug).

I see that the TL-12 Meson is about the same as the TL-12 PAW.  Even the
price is the same!  This was a concern I had and even posted on the GURPS
message board about it, but Mr. Jackson put up an interesting point.

TL-12 Mesons are designed as TL-10 PAWs.

When I designed my Meson I designed it as a TL-12 PAW, and got the same
results.  Using TL-10 we discover that there is a difference in
performance.  Dammage is slightly less than the PAW, but the Meson
ballances due to its armour penetration. So both weapons being the same
price is not realy a problem.

It looks like I will be updating my X-TEK webpages very soon.

Again, thanks to Mr. Jackson, your module system has been VERY helpful!

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 07:54:39 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm wrote:
> 
> Is this supplement worth purchasing if I only have the T4 rulesset? I have
> never read GURPS...
> 
> Since Imperium Games stopped their production, I have to look to new
> sources of material... I really hope I can use this.
>

If, as I suspect, Loren edits these two supplements (BTC and Aliens 1) as well
as he wrote and edited G:T they will be wonderful sources of Traveller
information. The specific stats will be in GURPS format, but the vast amount
of background information and other data will be useable in any system. And
these will _finally_ replace parts of those utterly unavailable DGP Rats and
Cats, and Cogs and Dogs, though in different order, since A1 is going to cover
the Zho's and Vargr.


As a general statement here to all: GURPS is the generalized _mechanic_ of the
game, the way the ROLL-playing is handled. The ROLE-playing information is
useable in ANY system.

If you feel, as some do, that with Traveller, the ROLL-playing and
ROLE-playing are inseparable, then G:T is not for you. If you feel that the
vast textual universe of the Third Imperium is independent of any particular
game mechanic, and is what makes 'Traveller', as I do, then anything and
everything associated with any version of Traveller is useful.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:48:48 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: GT stores plea?

Hi, it's me again,

No luck with my friend trying to pick up GURPS: Traveller in the Mall of
America.  But now a colleague's flying out to the following places next
week and has amazingly offered of her own accord to have a look for me:

Miami
Fort Lauderdale
New Orleans


If anyone can recommend a game store it might be worth her trying, that
would be great.


Many thanks.


tc
"Envious on this side of the Atlantic?  No, not me."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 10:59:42 -0400
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Packs (was: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

>
>
> ======================
>
> Your dead right on that, got attacked by two mongrels when I was 18, I
> was out in the woods, and I guess I wandered into their territory.
> Anyway, when I saw one start to move behind me, I took my walking staff
> and went right at the other one, one good swing to the head and he was
> out.  The other backed off when I turned to face him.  Good thing there
> weren't three or more, I would not have been so lucky.

I was innocently mowing the lawn at my appartment complex one day when this
girl (apparently just off the school bus) came through my gate and was
asking me to call the cops.  I tried to tell her that I didn't have a phone
but she could go next door to call or go down one block to the sherrif's
station.  Then this pack of girls showed up looking for her.  I told them I
didn't want any trouble but then they came into the gate anyway trying the
get the girl.  I didn't care squat for her, but she was hiding behind me
and THEY entered MY territory.  They took a few pot shots at the girl and I
had to raise my voice.  Eventually, they left and the neighbors called the
sherrif and the girl refused to press charges (she was a minor).  All I
could think of during that scene was that I'd have to kill the loud mouthed
bitch just to scare off the other four.  I knew I couldn't handle all of
them at once, but they were punks and I didn't think they had the nerve for
a REAL fight.  Fortunately that didn't become necessary.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:02:40 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: knife fights

In a message dated 10/1/98 4:50:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
stevedaniels@portcaddo.com writes:

<< That sounds like Cross-difference.  Normally, the one side of the brain
 controls all of the functions of the otherside of the body, i.e, the left
 brain controls the right side, etc.  But 20% of people (80+% of
 major league baseball players) have "cross-diference" which means
 that the controls switch or cross about neck level.  Thus, a person with
 cross difference who is left-brain dominant will be right handed but
 left-eyed. >>

Hey Bloo;

I have that problem too... I'm right eye dominant, and left handed. I learned
to shoot a revolver left handed, and once I figured out to use my right eye,
my scores dramatically improved. It is possible to shoot with your opposite
eye. You just turn your head a bit so the other eye aligns on the sight plane.
Granted it is easier with a pistol than a shoulder arm, but it CAN be done. If
you have trouble ask the guy (my apologies; I forgot his name) on the list who
is an NRA instructor. You can also go to the Smith and Wesson training Academy
since you live in Boston, and they are in Springfield.

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:11:27 -0700
From: "Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit

Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior) on 10/01/98 06:46:50 PM

Please respond to traveller@MPGN.COM

To:   traveller@MPGN.COM
cc:    (bcc: Leo Hale/Panlabs)
Subject:  Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit




Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> writes:
>Try to imagine somebody you could get 50,000 children to agree that they
>hate. (Hell, try imagining 50,000 kids doing anything all at once).
>
>Between 40K and 50K kids showed up to welcome Nelson Mandela
>last week and when the Premier stepped on stage - 50,000 booing
>kids. An awesome sight to be, uh, be-hear.

And, contrary to reports in the right-wing press, the teachers were trying
to make the kids shut up and be polite, not encouraging it.  'course,
Harris knows the kids can't vote...

Mandela look confused. No one explained to him that his visit was
sponsored by the teachers federations that Harris has been trying to
dismantle, or that these kids were tested on material they hadn't studied
(because the government gave the tests, THEN released the curriculum, and
finally commissioned the textbooks to be written), or that a solution to
"not enough money" is "sell a school" (even if it will be needed in a few
years as the population of its area changes), or...

(Mike Harris is currently Premier of Ontario, although his policies seem
to be set by an advisor named Guy Giorno. Seems intent on ripping the
social fabric apart. Not bad if you're an already-educated healthy
employed white middle-class male in the private sector - otherwise you're
a problem to be solved. Scary times to live through. Gives me a new
appreciation for Dulinor's subjects, I tell ya.)

ObTrav: What the hell, time for a Rebellion. Where can I hire some Vargr
corsairs and Aslan mercenaries? :-)



      Might I suggest an Aslan Duel assasin?  They are very efficient, and
      will take payment in land.



Leo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:20:41 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships (Drop Tanks)

>>>>
But, for the Gazelle to make J5 it assumes that all J fuel gets used
up inserting the ship into J-space. Is this the canon view? My personal take on
the J fuel thing is that the J drive uses the fuel whilst in J-space, so by
dropping the tanks you've just lost yourself 100 tons of fuel and have to run
the rest of the jump on internal tanks.
>>>>
My understanding of Jump fuel use is that the huge majority (at least) of it is used very quickly to provide the power to make the Jump.  In other words, the Jump fuel is used to open the hole into Jumpspace, and then the ship basically falls through it to the other end.  This is what makes drop tanks feasible, because you can use the fuel in the drop tanks, then jettison the drop tanks, then make the Jump.  So if you have enough fuel in the drop tanks, you can make a jump even if you have NO internal Jump
fuel tanks (you still need internal fuel for power plant and maneuver drive use though).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:23:06 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

In a message dated 10/2/98 2:55:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pbendal@ibm.net
writes:

<< I never used drop tanks in any of my CT designs so didn't really get into
them
 too much. But, for the Gazelle to make J5 it assumes that all J fuel gets
used
 up inserting the ship into J-space. Is this the canon view? My personal take
on
 the J fuel thing is that the J drive uses the fuel whilst in J-space, so by
 dropping the tanks you've just lost yourself 100 tons of fuel and have to run
 the rest of the jump on internal tanks.
 I see drop tanks as being used to extend range by making 2 jumps.
 Comments? >>

I always thought that the justification for drop tanks were that the fuel was
burned (or pumped aboard to replace burned internal fuel) BEFORE the jump, so
that the tanks were jettisoned dry. This is also a heavily argued thread on
the list.

I tend to design my HG rider' tenders with externally mounted detachable tanks
to carry all their jump fuel. They stay with the vessel until removed at a
starport. They can swap them for 'riders that convienently mass the same as a
tank, if they don't intend a maximum jump. The down side to ET's are that they
unstreamline a ship, and they are very vunerable to damage as they are outside
the armor.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:25:38 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

In a message dated 10/2/98 4:05:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:

<< And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten people
from
 this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system as
being
 the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\
  >>

I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I prefer
MT)....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 08:39:27 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships (Drop Tanks)

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:20:41 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships (Drop Tanks)
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

>>>>
But, for the Gazelle to make J5 it assumes that all J fuel gets used
up inserting the ship into J-space. Is this the canon view? My personal 
take on
the J fuel thing is that the J drive uses the fuel whilst in J-space, so 
by
dropping the tanks you've just lost yourself 100 tons of fuel and have 
to run
the rest of the jump on internal tanks.
>>>>
My understanding of Jump fuel use is that the huge majority (at least) 
of it is used very quickly to provide the power to make the Jump.  In 
other words, the Jump fuel is used to open the hole into Jumpspace, and 
then the ship basically falls through it to the other end.  This is what 
makes drop tanks feasible, because you can use the fuel in the drop 
tanks, then jettison the drop tanks, then make the Jump.  So if you have 
enough fuel in the drop tanks, you can make a jump even if you have NO 
internal Jump
fuel tanks (you still need internal fuel for power plant and maneuver 
drive use though).
- - Joseph
====================================

IMTU, there is a J1 main passing right through the middle of the 
Confederation, and most of the bulk commerce is carried on automated 
ships, using drop tanks to maximize their internal cargo capacity.




Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:55:52 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Nits

Sethkimmel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<< And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten people
from
 this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system as
being
 the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\
  >>

I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I prefer
MT)....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CT here... <g>...though I do nick some ideas from MT & TNE.

I'll bet "Homebrew" to some varying degree is the real system of choice
on the TML.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 12:06:04 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships 

> I tend to design my HG rider' tenders with externally mounted detachable tanks
> to carry all their jump fuel. They stay with the vessel until removed at a
> starport. They can swap them for 'riders that convienently mass the same as a
> tank, if they don't intend a maximum jump. The down side to ET's are that they
> unstreamline a ship, and they are very vunerable to damage as they are outside
> the armor.

Also, the base had better have spare riders there.  If you keep the external 
tanks mounted, how else are they gonna get there?

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #873
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 874



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; ) (was:Transponder's true nature)
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Re Transponders
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: G:T Questions
re: Nits
Re: Tech advancement (was: Transponder's true nature )
Re: Transponders and computers
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)
Re: Transponder's true nature  (long responce)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:44 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 07:32 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Black ICE wrote:
>> 
>> David P. Summers wrote:
>> >
>> <<snip>>
>> 
>> Agreed.  What man makes, man can unmake.  Besiedes, just about the time
>                                            ^^^^^^^^
>> that technology makes something more nearly foolproof, evolution will
>> produce a "better" fool.   ;-)
>> 
>As my typo above demonstrates ~blush~.
>
>
>> ______________________________
>> summers@alum.mit.edu
>
>-- 
>------
>|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
>|JOLT|
>|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
>|    |
>------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/
>

I gave up being imbarassed about my typing and spelling when I stared
posting to the net.  I am an EE not a typest or a PHD in english.  Most of
my misstakes are my brain out running my typing ability.  As long as your
readers know what you ment you are communicating your thought and ideas and
that is what this is about.  The free exchange of ideas for fun and
diabolical gaming.  (Grin)

If it were not fun I would not be here.  I have to admit that in the week
sence I joined this list I have greatly enjoyed the exchange of ideas with
the other people on this list.  There are a lot of well read and well spoken
people on this list.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:36 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; ) (was:Transponder's true nature)

At 02:50 PM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>     I thought that the Transponder was just there recording information
>and only Imperial units or port athorities could querry it by sending a
>special code on a laser.  I had also thought that it was SOP for imperial
>units to 'scan' any ship they came into contact with, while merchantmen and
>others carried them but never had anything to do with it other than having
>it replaced every once in a great while.
>
>Leo
>

I dought that code would be secret for long.  Also the ship's crew should
have access to the data for error checking purposes and verification of the
nature of ships they meet.  The BB is intended as a recognition system.
Even if the crew does not have direct access all they have to do is tell
thier computer to lof all output of the black box.  A simple colation
program could then extract all the relavent and not relavent data.  Remeber
the boxes are always chatting away.  A log of thos conversations would
contain all the data they exchanged and sence it passed through the com
system it can all be loged with a simple diagostic tool even if no other
facility is provided for this function.  This is doable with gear available
today.  The equipment would be part of any EEs tool kit and part of any
ships repair kit as well.  If it were not (for some strange reason) then it
would be a trivial task to aquire and install at any class A or B port.  Who
in their right mind would risk space travel without the basic tools to make
the most basic repairs to the critical parts of their vessel?

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:42 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 07:05 PM 10/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>> 
><<snip>>
>> 
>> >Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
>> >this unlikely to change in 3600 years?  Again, assuming no further
discoveries
>> >or inventions... this can't be improved or compensated for to the point it
>> >will be stable?  In 3 and a half *thousand* years?
>> 
>> Yeah, but ways around these things will also improve with time.
>> Any claim that talks about how technology will make things
>> foolproof is suspect and always ignores advances that will
>> counter that device.
>> 
>
>Agreed.  What man makes, man can unmake.  Besiedes, just about the time
>that technology makes something more nearly foolproof, evolution will
>produce a "better" fool.   ;-)
>

All to true.  I am the one in the company I work for that has to fix what
these higher evolved (or is that lower?) break.  You'd be amazed at what
some people will do with electronic equipment.  A few years ago I had to fix
equipment (belonging to a customer not ours) destroyed by water because a
plant manager thought it was dirty and ordered it cleaned.  The plant floor
workers cleaned it the way they clean everything else.  They hosed it
down...while it was running!  480 volts of three phase AC!  
Can you say, 'BOOM!!!'

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:47 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re Transponders

At 07:17 PM 10/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Several people seem to have a problem with transponders being required to
>operate in imperial space. I used to wonder about this, but came to the
>following conclusion for MTU:
>
>In order to operate more than 6 parsecs from the "official" border, you
>must have the SDG transponder installed. Non-compliance is met with
>forcible siezure of vessel, pending investigation. Cooperation is expected
>(and in most Zhodani cases, given quickly), as non-cooperation results in
>being considered a "Hostile Invading Force" and met with violence. If in
>pirate infested or other tx-hazardous environments, failure to squawk on
>demand is the key point.
>
>Also, most other interstellar govs will require THEIR Txpdr if you plan on
>leaving J4 or j6 range of their "Official" border. Similar circumstances.
>
>Also IMTU, the SDG chip need not be tied into the main computer nor the
>main voice systems... IMTU, it merely needs to have it's own antenna and
>power feeds. Since most imperial architects KNOW the needed specs, they
>will rig it into the normal comm gear (unless otherwise instructed) on the
>plans. I figure the Txpdr to be a roughly 6 litre box, plus 1 l or so of
>connections and brackets, and the antenna being shared with the commo
>system for no space requirement. I figure it has enough internal support
>processing (and batteries) for doing it's basic job, and the ability to
>continue passive ops for 2 months of no power. Each squawk is worth 1/2 day
>or more off the expectancy without power....
>

Very reasonable and well reasoned...so far but what is the limits of data
stored and transmited in your estimation?  Is it just the Vehicle
Identification Number in the way of todays air craft transponders or is it
more.  In my campains so far I treat the BB as simple squak boxes and let
the ships purchase data bases to identify the ship by its' VIN.  The BBs do
not store any contact or other data.  Only the VIN.  They are 'reasonablly
foolproof' sealed with the VIN multiply redundantly stored and encoded.
Absolute verification comes from the database purchased from the Empires MM
and the equivalent of 'Janes Spaceships'.  If the squak does not match the
ships sensor 'fingure print' in the data base then you got reason to
investigate.  It is a fairly safe and effective cross checked system as the
data base is maitained and updated by the Empires Department of Ships
Registry.  Updates are available for a small fee at all class A & B
starports and can be considered part of the maitainence cost if you do not
want to have your PC have to deal with the detains.  All 'inspection' ships
are in the minimum registry by law and no ship is required to heave to for
any ship not in the minimum registry.  

That is how I do it in my campians.  By separating the squak box from an
official registry list it make foergery difficult.  You could forge a sout
courier VIN (with considerable cost) but if it was not in a scout courier
hull with the same basic power systems then any ship in sensor range would
notice unless you payed the MCs for a mimicing stealth system.  This system
makes it hard to be dishonest but not imposible and it lets those that need
their secrets like the navy keep them.  Also all squak boxes have a mute
switch to prevent them from being use to guide in missles.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:39 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 04:37 PM 10/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:25:24 EDT
>>From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
>
>>> antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
>>> even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
>>> reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a system
>>> so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI enviroment,
>>> or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to change
>>> the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
>>> including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
>>> hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for dayly
>
>>Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
>>this unlikely to change in 3600 years?  Again, assuming no further discoveries
>>or inventions... this can't be improved or compensated for to the point it
>>will be stable?  In 3 and a half *thousand* years?
>
>Yeah, but ways around these things will also improve with time.
>Any claim that talks about how technology will make things
>foolproof is suspect and always ignores advances that will
>counter that device.
>
>______________________________
>summers@alum.mit.edu
>
>
>


Thank you.  I forgot to add this obvious fact to my own post.  It also
occures to me that traveller with only a few exception necessary for FTL
that are not specificly explained stick to the laws of physic as we now
understand them.  With this proviso I can not think of any way to produce am
unbreakable system.  

At the extreme a crew could vent the compartment that contains the BB to
deep space and wait for the BB to reach the single digits kelvan tempertures
of deep space.  They could then cut the box open and remove the 'distruct
circuit' as no such cuicuit could fire at those tempertures as there is to
little molecurler movement for any activety much less a detonation.  This
process is sometimes used to deal with bombs today but at much highter temps
like 100 kelvan.  Freeze them with liquid nitrogen and then haul them to a
safe place to go boom or defuse them.  Once the 'tamper circuit' was
deactivated you repressurise and warm the BB so it starts working again and
you have an open studyable BB for analises.  HEH!  HEH!  HEH!  In effect you
put the BB in a electronic lifeform low berth.

Note that at these tempertures not even electrons flow with any speed.  And
all but a few gases like Hydrogen and heleum solidify.  With near zero
molecule movement even atomic reactions slow to a near stop.  Real good
heated space suits will be needed to perform the work but those are already
standard equipment on space ships anyway.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:15:06 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Questions

At 01:00 AM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Clark, William writes:
>> >
>> >      1) Is it appropriate to ask questions here concerning GURPS
>> > as long as it pertains to Traveller (i.e., non basic GURPS rules
>> > questions)?
>> The gurps mailing list (gurpsnet-l@io.com) might be more likely to know
>> answers, if they relate directly to GURPS, though there's some crossovers in
>> any case.
>
>I would that is the way to go. BTW, there are as many gearheads on the
gurpslist as
>there are here, and the minutia gets mighty obscure.
>

Gurpslist?  I was not aware of a gurps mail list.  Can you send me
subscition information?

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:24:23 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: Nits

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
To: "'TML'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: re: Nits
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:55:52 -0400
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

Sethkimmel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<< And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten 
people
from
 this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system 
as
being
 the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\
  >>

I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I 
prefer
MT)....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CT here... <g>...though I do nick some ideas from MT & TNE.

I'll bet "Homebrew" to some varying degree is the real system of choice
on the TML.

Walt Smith
==============

I vote for Homebrew



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:15:00 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement (was: Transponder's true nature )

At 02:26 AM 10/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
>heh... getting alot of threads out of this...
>
>> Yeah, but ways around these things will also improve with time.
>> Any claim that talks about how technology will make things
>> foolproof is suspect and always ignores advances that will
>> counter that device.
>
>Liike armor and weapons?  Things change.  Theres nothing to say the
>"offensive-defensive" (spoof and counterspoof) balance couldn't go the other
>way in a few thousand years... 
>

Yes there is.  The system that makes the defence can always breal the
defence.  Defence has always laged behind for this reason.  Can you name a
time in history the defense was supperior enough to make a man invuneable
against that times weapons?

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:15:04 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

At 12:51 AM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>> Bingo...reread the relevant section of the TNE manual...they describe
>> Virus as 'a life form that inhabits electronic systems like a fish
>> inhabits water' They cannot exist outside of a electronic circuit, but
>> given a physical connection they can move from one system to another.
>> The Virus was derived from a strain of Cymbeline chip that had evolved
>> to impress it's circuitry on others from a distance, using
>> electromagnetic signals.
>
><Snip-a-ruinie>
>
> Bruce, man, that was Beautiful.
>Mind if I clip that and add it to my TNE players packet?
>

Just a few slight problems here.  

1) Reburning the chips substrate take a fair amount of power an a connect
capable of carring that power.  Line of sight laser would work but thats
about all execept direct electrical connection (not optical that is not line
of sight with the chips substrate)

2) The above process damages the chips permanately reducing it's capacity
considerably.

3) Refoundering the chips is more efficient but that would require an
enviroment similar to that on the planet the these chips come from or that
of a chip fab.  These does not occure in a working computer.

4)  The only real posibility of the virus working is if the computers are
nueral net systems (like the chip are themselves).  Then the virus would
pass as a seed in the form of a program then impress the basic pattern of
the virus chip into the nueral net.  This would get the effect discribed in
TNE.  This would make all non neural nets system somewhat resistant to the
virus as they could be flushed and reloaded from read only media to
completely remove the virus.  From what I gather this was the fix used in
TNE to allow computers to once again be useful.  I have very little access
to TNE material.

How does this match with TNE canon?

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:15:09 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

At 04:08 AM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
>> It was good that it was a doberman and not a heavier dog, like the
>> big pit bull we've got next door now.  I might not have faired so
>> well. ;->
>
>If a pit bull got a hold of my arm or leg, I think there would be no
>no choice but to gouge its eyes, unless I had something sharp that
>I could reach its brain with through the ear or the eye.
>
>As I understand it, when they lock that jaw, it stays locked.
>

Which dog are you talking about?  The dog that fights in pits is a terrior
bread much smaller than a dob.  The 'pit bull' in this area is in the mastif
family along with the mastif and the bull bastif, a cross between the bull
dog and the mastif.

The mastif bulls run 80-200+ lbs.  The pit fighting dog tops out around 60
to 80 lbs.  None of these are the engish bulldog or the boston terrior
though the bosten is distantly related to the pit fighting dog.  Here in the
south two very different dogs are mistakenly call pit bulls.  The mastiff
version is very good tempered that terrior is not.

PS none of these dogs lock their jaws.  They tend to hold on to their bite
untill they pull you off your feet and the can get to your throat.  Then
they let go and go for the throat.  The throat attack is what they are known
for.  The other is just the first step and if they don't like their grip
they will let got to get a better one.  Be warn though the mastiff breeds
have some of the most powerfull jaw muscles of the dogs.  The can break mens
arms.  The also very strong in their sholders and can pull even large men to
the ground.

I have owned several of these dogs (mastiffs only, not the teriors) and not
yet have I had a mean one.  One thing though they are very protective of
their people especially children.  You might get a very nasty surprise if
you were to spank your child in front of one of these dogs that likes your
child.  In many cases the dog will chose to protect the child over the
adult.  At least that is the popular wisdom with these dogs.  I've only seen
this happen once myself and the dog only warned.  It did not bite.  She was
a very good dog though and maybe an exception.  (I saw the child at the time.)

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:57 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

At 02:20 AM 10/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> >Mmm... no.  The transponder only kept a current and running history of the
>> >registry, not everywhere it went, what it did,etc etc.  Only when the
>Captain
>> >changed, teh ship name changed, etc etc.  Easy there, I least of anyone
>want
>> >to trample on your free traders' freedom. : )
>> >
>> 
>> You just contradicted yourself.  You said it could not be forged because of
>> the 'chatterbox' function and all the data that was swapped like what ships
>> it met and when ect.  Also how would anybody know what was going on in the
>
>That's not what I said.  The 'chatterbox function' only ensures that an
>authentic transponder is there.   The chips can tell by chatting w/ each other
>whether they're authentic or not.  The information is all passed back and
>forth, but that information (which is called up to the consol by a "squawk")
>is limited to registry info (home port, captain, ship name, etc etc).  I dont'
>know where you got those other impressions.
>
>> sealed box if they were not allowed to inspect it?  How would you force the
>
>The general public does not.
>
>> free merchants of the merchant merine to use them if they all said no?  They
>
>There's these Big Sticks (tm) called the Imperial Navy and Imperial Marines.
>It's a velvet glove on an iron fist.  'Nuff said.  
>

No not 'nuff said'.  Navy fall down go boom without logistic.  And what
about all those PEOPLE in the Navy who don't want big brother looking over
their shoulder.  The Empire could never stand against the MM in a show down.
This is true today.  The US army is no match for the US people.  The Empire
Navy would be atmost .1% the size the the MM.  No larger Navy could be
supported by the economy.  See pocket empires.

>> are organized you know.  A nice Empire wide boycott untill the Empire
>> starved or opened the books up to expert repesntatives of the MM.  Sorry, it
>> just does not work.  The 'chatterbox' concept would either make the Empire
>> into something it is not or it would be removed.  And do not try to say that
>> people would not know they were exchanging the data.  It is sent in the EM
>> sectrum so it can be intercepted and any signal can be decoded with enough
>> examples and as the box talks all the time...
>
>Huh?  What are you talking about?  A mixture of Big Brother paranoia and EM
>spectrum?  

No basic token ring network theory.  The data past would have to be loged to
maintain the intergraty of the system.  If loged it can be extracted.  If
extracted you have your bigbrotherism.  You can not have the cake and eat it
too.  If the system works it has to work in a curtain way.  Form always
matches function.  Just because you do not like it does not make it true.
My life would be a lot easier if it were not true.

To make the BBs as difficult to break as you say they are them cross
indexing is necessary or you in up with a data stream that is to short and
to easy to forge.  Those chips have to have something substansive to chatter
about or their chatter will be useless for the purpose of validation.  So
what do they talk about if not their own rather limited experience.  Their
ownly experience is talking with others of their kind and that is who, what,
when, and where data on every ship they have met.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:50 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature  (long responce)

At 02:03 AM 10/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> The laws of physics are not likely to change in these three dimentions in
>> ANY length of time.  There has NEVER in history been an unbeatable security
>> system.  If a thing can be built it can be beaten.  YOU propose that such a
>> system can exist.  Very well, prove it!  You say that the technology can
>> exist, discribe how it works.  I do not expect you to invent it.  All I ask
>> is some theorum that might posibly let it exist.  You have not proposed
>> anything that can do what you say it should be able to do.  Your system
>> could be broken by a moderately competant EE or hacker with a fast computer.
>
>lol. I don't have a system to propose.  I have no clue *how* the anti tamper
>circuit would work aside from the description of *what* it does.   The
>description should be satsified by whatever current scientific knowledge,
>coupled with imagination, says is forseeable.  
>

Unacceptable.  If you do not know how they work in general you can not let
the interact with your players.  You can not know what will and will not
work when they try it.  What level of forgery and electronics does it take
to forge the BB?  What is the difficulty rating?  What is the task time?
These MUST be known and do not say 'it can not be done'.  Everything can be
done that does not inherently break the laws of the universe and even those
thing can be done by work arround or if need be leaving the universe as in
'jump drive'.  Sayinf to your player 'you can't do that' is wrong.  Saying
that the attemp failed is ok but you must know how it could be done or you
are not playing fair with your player and are cheating them.  It is the job
and the duty of the GM to make the rule consistant and play by them.

>you said:
>
>> >> antitamper connecter can be tampered with.  The only way to make a system
>> >> even remotely 'tamperproof' to a professional would be a contiously
>> >> reflected standing wave signal in all wave guides.  This would make a
>system
>> >> so touchy that it would fire the tamper circuit in any high EMI
>enviroment,
>> >> or during reentry (the torcion would deform the wave guides enough to
>change
>> >> the standing wave), any attempt at any repair in any part of the system
>> >> including the main computer, shuting down any part of the system, and
>> >> hundreds of other everday occurences.  You can not make a device for
>dayly
>
>It's not possible for your 'reflected standing wave,' for example, to be
>better stabilized by TL15?  How about gravitic compensation/inertial
>dampening?  It is stated and I have repeated that malfunctions are allowed in
>the system.  They just draw the attention for probably investigation (in
>peacetime) and probable destruction (especially in wartime, in a warzone).
>Even w/ a no answer, who's to say there can be no invention or discovery, in
>the intervening 3 and a half millenia, that *can* permit the description of
>the disconnect/anti-tamper circuit to be valid?  How bout w/  nanotechnology?
>Is it *possible*?  This is only for the "compensation" to your 'reflected
>standing wave,' and not for "improvement" (if you say that's impossible).
>I'm not an EE.  If you have experience in that, i respect that, so i'm asking
>you.  Will there be *no* other way to do what Survival Margin describes, as
>regards the anti-tamper/ system disconnect?
>

In a short answer NO!  What ever enablong technology could or would be
developed could and would allow the system it made posible to be beaten.
The hammer that drives the nail can pull the nail also.  That is the point!
The tech. that makes a system posible can override that system.  It has to
be able to do so or it could not build it.  That the chips were bread is not
relavent.  ANY siganl can be falsified with enough examples.  The EM
spectrum is limited in the type of data it can past.  The power of computer
expands by and order of magnitude every 18 months or so.  In 18 month the
'new' transponders will face computers that are enough faster than they are
to decode there signal and falsify it.  The 'magic' of technology can defeat
itself and does so all the time.

>What about pings that go very very fast w/ a miniature fibre-optic system?  Or
>better yet, a miniature meson system of "pinging."  Nah... probably way below
>the minimum size, but u get my drift.  Yeah, maybe you can duplicate the ping
>itself, but how do you interrupt the flow w/o alerting the tamper circuit?
>Even one missed or most miniscule error in the ping could well cause the
>tamper circuit to fire...  Maybe you'll set it to 100 or whatever (depending
>on the ROP-rate of Pinging<g>).   Hows bout any of those?  Set it around
>neutrinos, positrons, whatever... lol.  There will be something that should be
>uncrackable within the period from 1086 to 1130...  Eventually a flaw will be
>found/exploited and the system will be upgraded. In fact, it was...  that
>exploitation was Virus, but alas was uncontrollable.
>

And as ever flaw is plug a new one is found or created and exploited.  The
best encoder that the satalite industry could field was defeated in less
than 3 months and a product hack was on the black market one month later.
As for tighter tolerences...you reach a point where the limits of the real
world step in and shut you down HARD.  If you build in to many 'security'
systems the system will falses fire to often and destroy itself due to the
variancies that naturally occure in the real world.  It is something I have
to design arround on a dayly basis.  Sorry there is no technological 'magic
bullets'.  No panacias.  No perfect unbeatable systems.  They do not and can
not be made.

>> It does not matter what stores the data the data is known and the data is
>> store the storage method can and will be decoded.  You do not understand the
>> nature of what you are discribing.  The technobable makes you this is a new
>> concept.  It is not.
>
>No I don't.  I'll tell you a secret...  I don't really care, actually.  It's
>quite in the license of science-fiction believability that a transponder chip
>can tell the difference between an authenticated message and one forged.  You
>make up the reason if you don't like the one in Survival Margin...
>

It work because I say so is not exceptable in an interactive game.  You must
allow the player their own free will.  If you 'make up a reason' then I can,
using basic logic deduce, a work arround.  Your defining it sets in in stone
and I chissle that stone into what I want it to be.  I would take a
electronic-4 crypto-4 navy vet and take your system appart.  I would demand
band width useage and signal perrameters which I could monitor with the
ships test gear.  I would design a fuzzy logic program to listen and learn
and run it with a comparater to test it's output agains my onboard BB.  I
would then expose my ship and it's black box to a busy enviroment like a
sector capital port and let the system do the rest.  The fuzzy logic system
would mutate and adapt untill it sinced up.  I would then decompile the
logic and rerun the process with a different BB on a different ship and
decompile it feed this date into another layer of fuzzy logic to calculate
the critical path data to replace to create a frogery.  This WILL beat any
system in time.  With comutational power doubling every 18 months and all
new transponders having to be backward compatable (a must for logistics
reasons) it would not take long (20 months tops) to fine the key to forging
the signal.

>> I have signal GK.  I have run it.  I know how the processes discribed.  They
>> are part of my job.  What they discribe is remotely plausible under the
>> specific condition they discribe.  If you had the knowledge then you would
>> know that with the proper equipment a person could read and understand the
>> mind and memories of that chip just as with the proper equipment (which does
>> not yet exist)you could record the entirety of one human's existance.  It is
>> also posible to exactly duplicate both!  If these things are posible then
>> your chips could be cloned.
>
>Ok.  So?  The chips are said to have a stable,reliable, and slow mutation.  A
>cloned chip, even if its mutation didn't vary due to & during the cloning
>process, in this somehow would still have all the features the Imperials
>geneered the chips to have.
>

and you would have a clone to use in another ship as a false ID.

>> Those chips are not so suffisticated that it would require this level to
>> duplicate.  The circuit scaner in signal GK was enough to recognise and
>> recognise the partial schematic inside the life form.  A slightly modified
>> scanner combined with the proper electronic probes could have been used to
>> clone that chip and it's program and data.  Bang instant duplicate.  There
>
>Ok.  So?  What does this mean?  An 'instant duplicate' does exactly what the
>original is  designed to.  Maybe someone w/ the duplicate will try to play
>around w/ the design to be able to have "forgable" transponders (which are
>supposed to return "false" squawks from your trusty SDG-313F).  To do it in a
>way that works (doesn't return false and instead goes on its own) is supposed
>to be a TL16-17 program by the certain name of Virus.  Note that Virus was
>uncontrollable.  Whether this was due to Lucans impatience (and desperation
>facing Dulinors final drive) or to a "controllable" Virus being TL18 or
>higher, who knows?
>

Not true the TL that built something has by fiat the power to overcome it.
A highter TL would not be required and could not be required by the fact
that the original system was designed at that TL.  Products always lag
behind theory.  The theory of a better system exists a year or more before
the first working copy and two or more years before the first production
units.  By the time the BB reached the fronteers of the empire the
scientists there would have already come up with a counter.  It's about a 2
to 5 year trip depending on what canon you sight.

>> are any number of fabs in business TODAY that could do this with their TL8
>> gear.  It is done ervery day.  In signal GK the chip itself admits that it
>> could no longer produce the high quality copies of itself and it's circuits
>> that could be done with the help of human technology.  The tech discribes is
>> at best mid 20th century.  We use the processes discribed today.
>
>Ok.  So?  So what can the techs of the 57th century do?  What about 57th
>century "copy protection?"  
>

57th century copy protect will be defeated by 57th century hack just like
today.  Also most companies have learned that copy protect ticks off the
customer and is not worth the investment because hundreds of people will
work hurdreds of hours for free just to be the one that breaks it first.
The now depend on licenced support and upgrades to insure their market share.

>> >An intelligent (lobotimized) being that has access to a databank.  It's a
>> >living computer.  The method by which it records information is unforgable
>(at
>> >least at TL15).  It's not any more far fetched that an intelligent
>microchip
>> >could tell the difference whether it's been hooked up to a real computer
>and
>> >comm system than it is for said intelligent chip to exist at all, is it?
>> >
>> 
>> If the data exactly duplicates what it expects to see within the tolerences
>> of reality itself it could not know the difference.  Know being of
>> instrament could.  Reality (to a living being) is what we percieve NOT what
>> it is that we do not percieve.  If we can not percieve a diference then
>
>And how do you know what the transponder chips will be able to percieve or
>not?  They were geneered over the course of decades by imperial scientists
>seeking to develop and isolate specific traits that would serve their purpose
>(being unforgable transponders).  Is it impossible that a being that "lives in
>electronics like a duck passes through water" (or however that goes) can
>probably tell if it's hooked to a computer (and comm system) or not?  Or maybe
>you'd rather dispute the possiblity of such a being?
>

Because the EM spetrum is finite and moniterable!  Their every action and
perception is detectable and duplicatable.  If it can tell you can tell how
it tell and duplicate the input it sees and wants even down to the
variations causes by imperfections in materials and enviroment.  It's done
today as part of system testing.  It's call emulation.

>> there is no diference.  Remember the the signal GK chip had to be given new
>
>The Deyo chips are not just ordinary Cymbeline chips. They're the product of
>decades of geneering on said Cymbeline chips.
>

Not relavant.  They are still limited to the EM spetrum and the EM spectrum
is itself limited.

>> sences and taught to use them before it come deal with the human crew.  All
>> it had was a very short range radio direction finder system.  The writer of
>> signal GK had a good graps of what was posible for the lifeforms he
>> portrayed.  You do not.  You have yet to explain how the signals the chips
>> sends out differ in any qualitative way that would prevent them from being
>> duplicated.  That the chips are alive is not relavant in the least.  How are
>
>What signals?  You talking about the anti-tamper/system disconnect?  Or about
>the transponder chatter?  Or both?  
>

Either or both in this case. 

>> their signal unforgable?  They can not modulate the EM spectrum in a unique
>
>You can always forge a transponder chatter.  The Transponder probably
>understands it fine too.  It still gives you a false squawk because it nows
>what it should hear but isn't.
>

You falsify everything, that's the point.  A message that is out of
tollerence would cause a false squak but one inside the tolerence band would
be seen as corrent and legitimate.

>> way.  That is limited by physics.  They may speak their own language but
>> that can be learned by a linguiestics program.  Culture can be imulated
>> through experience.  And if their mutation rate is 'slow and predictable'
>> then that which can predict it can be use to falsify it.  Everything you use
>> to say they are unforgable proves that they are forable.  It one chips can
>> figure out what the other chip should be saying then so can a computer or a
>> person.  The fact they can recognize each other means that other people can
>> as well and forge that identity.
>
>Yes. I dispute none of that.  All of that takes time (and vast amounts of
>effort and time) and it's a tiered difficulty.  The only time that's needed is
>from 1088 to however long the Imperium would have lasted w/o being wasted.
>Say a hundred years before a new and updated TL16-17 IFF system is adopted.
>And the process repeats.  First is discovering what's inside the black box to
>begin with.  Not that hard for someone w/ power and influence and the
>motivation for it.  Then have to acquire a SDG-313F chip.  Any chip from
>Cymbeline won't do it.  Maybe you get someone in the Research Station Omicron
>to get you the mutation rate, etc.   For the sake of argument, say the black
>box can be can be disconnected from the ship w/o melting the transponder
>chips.  It still can't be opened (unless you think the 'integrity monitor' of
>the black box is a flawed concept, too).  You plug it in another ship, it

Of course it's flawed.  I addressed that in another post.  No 'anti-tamper
system is perfect and can not be worked arround.

None of the above paragaphs actions are necessary.  The signal is all that
need be forged.

>still says its the original ship.  Somehow you've finally acquired an SDG-313F
>chip outside of its black box (or even managed to get in the black box).  Now
>what?  You go about wanting to make a forgable version...  
>
>By altering it, Survival Margin says the imperial chips will be able to tell
>the difference.  
>The only analogy i can think of is trying to simulate a conversation between a
>cro-magnon and another human.  They can try to fake the funk but i'm sure both
>can probably tell something is very odd bout the other (even if both are
>perfectly instructed in good ol Oxford English or 'grogspeak').  Or trying to
>get your mac to talk to you pc.  Yeah, there's emulators, but there's a
>difference in "feel."  Enough to return a false squawk anyways.
>

You are again saying it's unforagable BECAUSE it's unforgable.  Circlular
logic.  I refuse to allow you your premiss that a perfect system can be
built.  You mush provide me with the proof of your premiss.  How can a copy
of a signal that is a duplicate of the signal that should be sent be told
from the 'real' signal.  I have already shown how the signal could be forged
within tolerence.  You must now show how your system can tell the
difference.  How can two effectively identical signal be distinguish apart?

>> >> A very basic check system.  Nothing new in this discription and nothing
>> >> 'foolproof'.  Easily spoofed.  Their are far more secure structures than
>> >> this.  This is not even up to the current encryption standard for
>internet
>> >> business use and it has been compromized on many occasions.
>> >
>> >Only how the transponder recorded and verified it's information was
>detailed
>> >(though you have to accept the workings of the Cymbeline predator in Signal
>GK
>> >w/ the additional info in Survival Margin) for it to work.  Everything else
>> >was left unexplained, including how to build the box (because the writers
>> >weren't 57th century EEs).  Maybe you *know* what will and won't be
>possible
>> >in electronics in 36+ centuries, but not me.  It's no more improbable than
>> >laser weapons w/ useful range (much less meson weapons or jump drives)...
>> >
>> 
>> You have accused another resonder that he will not believe you because he
>> refuses to do so in the face of your logic.  You are guilty of the same
>
>No, that's not what I said.  I said Hans didn't like them to begin with and he
>doesn't.  So any "evidence" he finds that points to any incongruities merely
>reinforces his preconceived opinions IMO.   I think that the storyline (of the
>life, death, and aftermath of the Third Imperium) should be justified and
>reconciled where there are incongruities.  Me and Hans have discussed matters
>in this province before.  He doesn't like TNE and i'm not losing sleep about
>it.  Traveller is Traveller is Traveller. : )
>

I don't like them because they are internally inconsitant and totally
imposible.  Your suposition that something will be invented to make them
posible is not in itself logical as that invention would provide the method
to again make the unbeatable system beatable.

>I just say they're no more improbable than starship laser weapons w/ useful
>range (much less jump drives, Aslan, Droyne, and meson weapons/screens).
>

Not true.

>> offence.  You say something is SO because it is what you WANT to be so.  You
>
>It *is* so,  according to Survival Margin.  YMMV. : )
>

It is not posible according to Signal GK.

>> freely admit that you are not an EE yet you claim insight into electronic
>> that is superior to that of a praticing EE.  Do you make a habit of going to
>
>lol. Where did I do that?  I know squat about EE and I don't have a care to
>(at least for now).
>
>> a doctor or other professional and then discarding his opinion in perference
>> to your own when you have no first hand knowledge in that field?
>
>Nope. : )
>
>> You abmit the the traveller adventure contradics you but still you say you
>> are right.  How can this be?  Can you reconsile the conflict?  If not the
>> can you at least be reasonable to admit that you could be wrong.
>
>You've removed my meaning from the context it was presented in.  What I
>admitted was that The Traveller Adventure is just as easily moved to 1086 IMTU
>as it is in the 1100 era, and that the transponders of TTA are the pre-Deyo
>transponders (adopted in 1088 w/ a 12 year retrofit period).  Hmm... 12 years
>makes 1100... what's the date of TTA?  I'm assuming 1105 or so.  Being in the
>Spinward Marches (I presume) and thus a backwater, maybe one can justify TTAs
>transponders being the old style even in 1105. Ya think?  ; )
>

Then we throw out the TA.  Your system still is not posible based on the
hard data in Signal GK.  Signal GK also makes the Virus an imposibility
bases on the discription of the lifeforms reproductive processes.  They
could not occure inside a working computer and a simple system flush and
reload form backups would get rid of that virus.

>> Also you did not address the sociological effects that would come from your
>> version of the transponder that I and others pointed out.  How do you
>> explain that the traveller universe as discribed in canon has not been
>> effected by such far reaching bigbrotherism?
>
>I got this in a latter post, making a seperate topic for it (Transponder's
>true nature is becoming too big an umbrella).  All the transponder records is
>registry information, man! lol.  I don't believe in the Black UN helicopters
>(regardless of whether they believe in me <g>). 
>

I don't believe in the black coppers either.  They do not need them.  There
are much more effient ways already in place.

Charles.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #874
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 875



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Nits
Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: Nits 
Re: knife fights
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: knife fights
Drop Tanks
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: Tech advancement
G:T  Creating Deckplans Sidebar
Re: Behind the Claw
re: Transponders
Behind The Claw (GURPS Useability)
Re: Transponder's true nature  (long responce)
Vargr, but not Dogs
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Tech advancement

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:32:56 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: RE: Nits

It was written by a variety of people:

>>> And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could
>>> get ten people from this list to all agree on the same version
>>> of the Traveller game system as being the best. I don't think
>>> there would even be a clear majority.
>>
>> I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE
>> (I prefer MT)....
>>
> CT here... <g>...though I do nick some ideas from MT & TNE.
>
> I'll bet "Homebrew" to some varying degree is the real system of
> choice on the TML.

I would agree with the last statement - while everyone might _base_ their
rules on one of the standards, I would guess (and it is a guess) that most
of us add our own quirks.

For the record, I'm a CT man myself, but I use from all sources.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                         |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/ - AOL IM: Iowa Akins |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/ - AOL IM: CMS AndyA  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+    |
|       vi+ da+                                                        |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+      |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                             |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

William Prankard writes:
> 
> This is by far the best system for module construction in GT yet.  I have
> been running myself ragged calculating and recalculating and even making a
> spreadsheet to make new modules for GT.  Mr. Jackson has cut out the
> middleman and passed the savings on to you!

Thank you for the appreciation.
> 
> These are by far the best modules.  These simplify the making of weapons
> of all sizes.  From turrets to Bays to Spinals.  One question, any chances
> of a Laser-X weapon?  I've been working on the "powered" version of a
> 50ton X-Laser bay an I can tell you that these weapons are brutal.  Long
> range and high dammage.  Maybe these weapons were ommitted from the GT
> book for a reason?  FNORD!

Sure...multiply cost/weight/power use of any weapon by X^2 and multiply damage
and range by X.  I didn't do this because I chose to assume that lasers have a
maximum energy (much like T4) to avoid the phenomenon of the spinal laser
mount.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:44:20 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> these will _finally_ replace parts of those utterly unavailable DGP Rats and
> Cats, and Cogs and Dogs, though in different order, since A1 is going to cover
> the Zho's and Vargr.

How many of these supplements will there be? What will they cover? Where
can I find this info myself, instead of pestering you with stupid
questions?

> As a general statement here to all: GURPS is the generalized _mechanic_ of the
> game, the way the ROLL-playing is handled. The ROLE-playing information is
> useable in ANY system.

Clearly, but what I wanted to know is this...

How much of the book is rules, and how much is background? 50-50? 10-90?
What is the usual ratio for GURPS supplements?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 12:44:25 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Nits 

> Sethkimmel wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> << And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten people
> from
>  this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system as
> being
>  the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\
>   >>
> 
> I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I prefer
> MT)....
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> CT here... <g>...though I do nick some ideas from MT & TNE.

Same here.  CT forever!!

> I'll bet "Homebrew" to some varying degree is the real system of choice
> on the TML.

Considering that us early CT'ers had to kitbash just about everything, I'd say 
that was a good approximation of what was going on.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org>
Subject: Re: knife fights

Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> writes:

> You can test yourself for cross-difference real easy.
> Extend your arms straight out and form a triangle with the index fingers
> and thumbs of your hands.
> With both eyes open: center an object in the center of the triangle.
> Close right eye and observe any change in relative position of the object.
> Open right eye and close left.  Observe any change in relative position.
> 
> The eye that was open with the least change in position is your dominant
> eye.

This is the same test we used for our students in our "Handgun I"
class.  (BTW, I'm right-hand and right-eye dominant, by that test.)

>                                                             Since, I can't
> shoot a rifle properly, because firing lefty is too weird and I can't get
> my good eye in the sights, I learned to shoot from the hip as a kid.  I'm
> not sure what Mr. Cook would say, but I was always taught to just point
> and shoot and don't think about it.  For all I know, thats improper as hell
> for real shooting, but it sure impresses the boys when we play paintball.

We don't advocate it for ranges beyond about 5m.  It's one thing to
be able to hip shoot and hit a man-sized target at any distance, but
it's much more dificult to hit that same target in the "A" zone (the
center-of-mass location required for instant incapacition), especially
considering that two hits in that zone are usually required to drop
your opponent.  We teach a modified "Mozambique Drill" to our students
(2 shots to the chest, pause to assess, 1 aimed shot to the head if
the target is still up.)

Having said all of that, hip/point shooting can be extremely effective
when the shooter is highly skilled and/or properly trained. The late,
great Bill Jordan (of U.S. Border Patrol fame) was a well-known point
shooter and he constantly advocated the technique in all of his
teachings.  If you have good success with this technique, then I'm
jealous. :^)  Most of us "normal" pistolleros use sights because it
simply takes us too long to become proficient at what you can already
do so well.

My hat is off to you!

        - Mark C.
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)
          Front Sight First Family member #1

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting *  shoestring graphics & printing
 2055 s.w. whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@ssgfx.com
 Phone: 541-753-2732      Fax: 541-753-2738       http://www.ssgfx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > I believe that "decimation" originated with the Roman legions.

    Of course it originated with the Romans! Who else would _need_
    a word that means "kill every tenth person"?  - Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 12:58:48 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm wrote:

> Is this supplement worth purchasing if I only have the T4 rulesset? I have
> never read GURPS...
>
> Since Imperium Games stopped their production, I have to look to new
> sources of material... I really hope I can use this.

If it turns out like the beta materials suggest, it will be an absolute must
for all Traveller products.  There is at least one paragraph for every
system in the Spinward Marches.  Its great stuff.  And if you don't want to
play in the Spinward Marches, just use the system descriptions for
worlds whereever you like.

I wish I could post a sample.  Perhaps Loren might.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:07:16 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: knife fights

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

> Hey Bloo;
>
> I have that problem too... I'm right eye dominant, and left handed. I learned
> to shoot a revolver left handed, and once I figured out to use my right eye,
> my scores dramatically improved. It is possible to shoot with your opposite
> eye. You just turn your head a bit so the other eye aligns on the sight plane.
> Granted it is easier with a pistol than a shoulder arm, but it CAN be done.

Yeah, but for rifles, especially lying prone on the rifle range,
I have to press the right cheek really hard into the stock
to get my round face over enough for the left eye to see through
the scope.

If I could close my left eye and keep the right eye open,
I would be alright.  If I were in a situation in which I might
really have to shoot a rifle, I'd get an eye-patch I could
flip down over the left eye when necessary.

> If you have trouble ask the guy (my apologies; I forgot his name) on the list
> who
> is an NRA instructor. You can also go to the Smith and Wesson training Academy
> since you live in Boston, and they are in Springfield.

Hmm.  That sounds like a fun day.  I'll look into that.
Thanks.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 03:06:30
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Drop Tanks

Drop tanks without interior tankage seriously unbalance interstellar trade
in favour of jump 4-6 ships with zero internal tankage. Hans Ranke did the
analysis of this last time they came up.

I strongly recommend increasing the misjump chance when using drop tanks to
about 1 in 36. This will make them commercially unviable, but militarily
still worthwhile.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:16:26 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

Charles Prevatte wrote:

>

> >Bloo wrote:
> >If a pit bull got a hold of my arm or leg, I think there would be no
> >no choice but to gouge its eyes, unless I had something sharp that
> >I could reach its brain with through the ear or the eye.
> >
> >As I understand it, when they lock that jaw, it stays locked.
> >
>
> Which dog are you talking about?  The dog that fights in pits is a terrior
> bread much smaller than a dob.  The 'pit bull' in this area is in the mastif
> family along with the mastif and the bull bastif, a cross between the bull
> dog and the mastif.

I really don't know.  The smaller kind, I guess.  The ones that
the guys down the street swing around on 3 inch thick rope
(which the dog holds onto with his jaw).  They don't really swing
them, but they do hold them up in the air.  The dogs seem happy
and aren't aggressive.

Are the mastiffs the ones that slobber in buckets?   ;-)

Ob, Trav.  What kind of Vargr specialty products would be common
to encounter?  Besides clothing with tail slot.  Fine combs and brushes?
(Which might be useful to Aslan as well).  Tooth Sharpeners?

I can imagine a merchant getting stuck on a planet far from any Vargr
with a ship load of Vargr care products, but trying to fast-talk an
Aslan that the products are for Aslan and not Vargr.


Bloo

P.S.
When I eventually move into a house one of these days,
I'm getting me a blue-tick hound.  I think thats what they're called.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Traveller has historically had 'repulsors' for defense against missile fire --
these aren't in G:Traveller, though it might be possible to model them. 
Questions for those with more knowledge of the background than me, though:

a)  What did they do?  Just pushed things away?  This seems of limited value
against kinetic-kill missiles, unless you assume _huge_ potential thrust.
b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting the
missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged nuclear
dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up with a
laser instead).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:06:32 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

In a message dated 10/2/98 9:18:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< Also, the base had better have spare riders there.  If you keep the
external 
 tanks mounted, how else are they gonna get there?
  >>
My 'riders are million ton beasts, and the 'riders mass 25kT's. Even with
maximum fuel they have enough open spots for plenty of 'rider payload.
Example: my J4 'tender has 32 bays, and only needs 16 for fuel tanks for a
jump 4. My J6 'tender has 29 bays, and at max jump, uses 24 for fuel tanks.
Imagine how many 'riders can come to the party when the trip is only
J1...Unassigned 'riders make great SDB's (a type T Meson gun demands
respect....). Of course the down side to this, is the "all the eggs in one
basket" approach. This squadron patrols, deploys, and fights as a whole.
Battleships are still needed for individual ship patrols... (and I don't enjoy
designing them as much as I do rider-tender combos; but then again I'm
weird...:-) )

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:39:45 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

>Yes there is.  The system that makes the defence can always breal the
>defence.  Defence has always laged behind for this reason.  Can you name a
>time in history the defense was supperior enough to make a man invuneable
>against that times weapons?

Civil War ironclads were nearly invulnerable to each other's cannon.
Early-to-mid 19th century (and 18th century) forts were essentially
invulnerable to any weapons ships could carry and had to be reduced by long
land-based sieges. 

Machine guns - basically a defensive weapon due to their weight and high ammo
consumption - overwhelmed offensive weapons/tactics for the first few years
of WWI. 

And, as others have noted, currently encryption (if applied properly) is 
*way* ahead of decryption; while current encryption algorithms may well be
defeated by Third Imperium, it seems that encryption beating decryption in
that era is at least as plausible as the other way around.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:59:48 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: G:T  Creating Deckplans Sidebar

Is it just me, or is the 4-hexes/space too low?
I think they meant to say 6 Gurps-hexes / space.
(and they almost did).  Here's why

Area per hex:
A hex 1-yard wide at widest point can be
figured at 6 triangles, 1.5 feet/side.

(1/2 * 1.5^2) * 6 =
3 * 1.5^2 =
6.75 sq. ft

The Creating Deckplans sidebar (P.153) says:
"Assuming a headroom of about 8-9 feet and some room
under the decks, a 'space' in a module can be represented
by six squares or four hexes (GMs option)."

1 space = 500 cf
500 cf / 4 hexes = 125 cf/hex

125 cf/hex  /  6.75 sq. ft/hex  = 18.52 feet!!

Obviously, 18.52 feet as the height of a space (both the headroom
and the space below decks) it way too much.  Subtracting 9 feet
for headroom, we're left with 9 feet under-deck space (or over-deck).


I think a more accurate figure is 6 Gurps hexes / space.
(And I'm betting that there was a typo or some such housekeeping
mistake in the very errata free G:T book).

500 cf / 6 hexes = 83.33 cf/hex

83.33 cf/hex / 6.75 sq. ft/hex  = 12.35 feet.

This is much more workable.  Subtracting a headroom on 9 feet
leaves 3.35 feet under (or above) deck space.  And thus,
each deck would take up 12 feet.  And a 3 foot high inter-deck
space gives you the possibility of having airducts and the like
which are large enough for most Traveller characters to crawl
through.  Gives us some smuggling/stowaway potential.

Smuggling Spaces:
For ship design, we do need someway to balance underdeck
space used for smuggling.  Since that deck space is there for a reason,
i.e., containing necessary conduits, pipes, ducts, etc., each bit of
volume
dedicated to smuggling must be made up somewhere else.

With a 3 foot high inter-deck height, each hex contains
6.75 sq. ft. * 3 feet =  20.25 cf. in volume, which means
24.6 hexes / space (call it 24).

So to add a space of smuggling interdeck area, add
one space of Utility module, with appropriate costs, etc.
(Although, figuring a different number may be appropriate.
I'm just using the Utility module as a place holder).

Of course, a densitometer will be able to detect inter-deck
spaces, but given the legitimate need for these, it will take a
more thourogh close range and time consuming scan, IMO,
to detect if the inter-deck space is not legitimate inter-deck
space.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:59:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm wrote:

> Is this supplement worth purchasing if I only have the T4 rulesset? I have
> never read GURPS...

if it looks like the playtest, YESSSS!!!.  It has evey world in the
Spinwrd Marches in it, with atleast a paragraph of information on each
world.  Hardly any Gurps stuff, mostly background.  And a mini campaoing
(which I am planning onspriniging on my players...)

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:17:24 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Transponders

Hello,
>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: re: Transponders
...
>I'm afraid that I must aggree for several reasons.  If you look at modern
>aviation practices 'transponders' are designed to add a ident signal to
>incoming radar signals for tracking purposes.  The concept of 'fingur
>printing' space ships to counter piracy is asinine.  All a pirate has to do
>is have a legal ship and one without any traansponder and he is untracable.

  I'm not sure that I'd use the term "asinine" to describe the idea of
running a starship around the Imperium without the minimum compliance to
Imperial security regs required to survive the essentially inevitable
searches that will occur, but it will do for now.

  Assuming the ship has a transponder that never has to transmit its' real
ID it still can't risk interacting with most ports (& worlds) without using
said real ID. How do you know whether to have your real ID (or an absolutely
or near-perfect fake) or an untraceable/disposable one transmitting when you
exit Jump?

...
>short this level of 'big brotherism' is counter productive to the 'prime
>directive' of the Impire which is the free fow of trade and the maintanence
>of said free trade.

 "Prime directive"? Are you sure that you've got the right universe? In any
case, reliable ship ID for internal security (and taxation?) purposes hardly
constitutes "Big Brother-ism". FWIW, I don't know that the 3I has a "free"
trade fetish, rather than a more general drive towards economic progress.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:15:32 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Behind The Claw (GURPS Useability)

BTC had, at the time of submission, NO game mechanics in it at all. I can't
imagine that's changed in the editing phase.

It's a sourcebook for the Marches of 1120, and you can use any set of rules
you like with it, including the D&D Basic (Traveller Variant) if it so
pleases you.

These Marches are the same Marches as we played in with CT, TNE, T4 and MT
rules... I begin to think that the rules mechanics matter not at all.
Traveller is the Imperium, Jump Drive and Gauss rifles, stuff lke that. Not
how you resolve a pistol shot or computer hacking attempt.

So yeah, you can use BTC with any set of Traveller rules. 

Have fun.

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:30:38 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature  (long responce)

At 04:14 PM 10/2/98 +0000, you wrote:
>At 02:03 AM 10/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
>>You've removed my meaning from the context it was presented in.  What I
>>admitted was that The Traveller Adventure is just as easily moved to 1086
IMTU
>>as it is in the 1100 era, and that the transponders of TTA are the pre-Deyo
>>transponders (adopted in 1088 w/ a 12 year retrofit period).  Hmm... 12 years
>>makes 1100... what's the date of TTA?  I'm assuming 1105 or so.  Being in the
>>Spinward Marches (I presume) and thus a backwater, maybe one can justify TTAs
>>transponders being the old style even in 1105. Ya think?  ; )
>>
>
>Then we throw out the TA.  Your system still is not posible based on the
>hard data in Signal GK.  Signal GK also makes the Virus an imposibility
>bases on the discription of the lifeforms reproductive processes.  They
>could not occure inside a working computer and a simple system flush and
>reload form backups would get rid of that virus.

Actually, IIRC, in Signal GK the predator chips had to physically move and
make contact with the prey.  If this is so, my copy is at home and I'm at
work, then the entire rationale behind Virus is flawed from the outset.
The Cymbaline "lifeform" was not a free roaming electrical pattern, it was
a circuit that needed a physical "body" to function.  I have not seen
anything that adequately explains how, whether in sound technical terms or
pseudo-science technobabble, how a lifeform that needs a physical body can
escape a confinement like the BB and then roam around infecting systems at
will.

Simply saying, "It works because it does," is not enough.  As posted
earlier that is circular reasoning.  I would be willing to accept the whole
notion of Virus if it could be explained how the chips actually got out of
the BB, when other than the homeworld, that was the only place they were
ever found.  They were not in ship's systems, not in Dulinor's personal
handcomp, not in LSP's mainframe, they were nowhere.  Then how did they
escape the confines of the BB?

They are not energy lifeforms any more than we humans are.  They need a
'body' to live.  Seperate them from the body and you have death.

All things considered, Virus is extremely difficult for me to rationalize,
let alone use as written in my games.   And I think that was part of the
reason I never embraced TNE.  Too many changes from the previous 13+ years
of established Traveller Universe.  (The biggie other than Virus:  HEPlaR
instead of Gravitics as new sublight baseline)

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:42:21 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Vargr, but not Dogs

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
>Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
...
>Ob Trav:  One Vargr is fine, but don't let 'em congregate!  They are
>dangerous in packs. ;->

  Not if you're adequately prepared - an SMG, a big can of bear spray,
or best of all, a _big_ bowl of thick peanut butter :>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:42:23 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

>Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 02:57:36 -0800
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>Subject: Imperial Transponders....
>
>Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone elese) with the
>Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
>transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they did
>make said scan they never said or did anything about it?

  That talent didn't specifically exist under The One True System (i.e., CT)

  Heretic.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:45:29 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 02:03 AM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote:

>You've removed my meaning from the context it was presented in.  What I
>admitted was that The Traveller Adventure is just as easily moved to 1086 IMTU
>as it is in the 1100 era, and that the transponders of TTA are the pre-Deyo
>transponders (adopted in 1088 w/ a 12 year retrofit period).  Hmm... 12 years
>makes 1100... what's the date of TTA?  I'm assuming 1105 or so.  Being in the
>Spinward Marches (I presume) and thus a backwater, maybe one can justify TTAs
>transponders being the old style even in 1105. Ya think?  ; )

Backwater or not, the regulation stated that begining in 1088 and ending 12
years later (1100) all craft would be refitted.  Backwater or not.  Given
the distance between the Solomani Rim and Capital is close to the distance
between the Spinward Marches and Capital, would the Solomani Rim be
considered a backwater?

Your argument invalidates the justification for the new transponders if you
are willing to let one area get by with not complying, then the other
areas, and shipowners, are going to scream bloody murder because they were
forced to pay for something the 'backwater' area did not have to.

IMO, Virus was a mistake.  If anone on the development group for TNE is on
the list and takes offense, I apologize for upsetting you, but not for my
opinon.  

Later,

Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:45:41 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

At 10:39 AM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Yes there is.  The system that makes the defence can always breal the
>>defence.  Defence has always laged behind for this reason.  Can you name a
>>time in history the defense was supperior enough to make a man invuneable
>>against that times weapons?
>
>Civil War ironclads were nearly invulnerable to each other's cannon.
>Early-to-mid 19th century (and 18th century) forts were essentially
>invulnerable to any weapons ships could carry and had to be reduced by long
>land-based sieges. 
>

The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
The harbor defense guns of that time could sink on easily.  They were 10 or
more times larger than the ship mounted guns of that time.  The ironclads of
that time were a failure but they were 'proof of concepts'.

The forts were defeated by the same type of force that built them which is
what I said would happen with any technology.

>Machine guns - basically a defensive weapon due to their weight and high ammo
>consumption - overwhelmed offensive weapons/tactics for the first few years
>of WWI. 
>

Machine guns are not a defensive device in this context.  It is a weapon
with limited mobility.  It does not protect anything from damage.  It's soul
purpose is to inflect damage on the opposing forces.  In that sence a ICBM
is a defesive weapon.  I would agree the a Phalanx system is a basicly
defence system as it's prime purpose is to protect against other weapons.
Note they are easly defeated by a torpedo. (Grin)

>And, as others have noted, currently encryption (if applied properly) is 
>*way* ahead of decryption; while current encryption algorithms may well be
>defeated by Third Imperium, it seems that encryption beating decryption in
>that era is at least as plausible as the other way around.
>

Again there is no incryption scheme that has not been beaten.  That it takes
time I did not dispute.  PGP has been broken for some time.  It just takes a
while to break each new key.  Decryption technology has kept pace with
encryption.  Check the newsgroups that deal with these subject for the
current condition of this ongoing battle.  Sure the sides shift back and
forth but every new scheme is beaten in time.

Charles.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #875
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 876



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Transponders
Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.
Re: Transponder's true nature
re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: GT: Alien Races 1
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: Re: Tech advancement
Re: Transponder's true nature 
Re: Dogs and USAF
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)
Re: G:T Questions
Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT
If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
Re: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)
Re: Nits
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:59:21 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Transponders

At 11:17 AM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello,
>>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>>Subject: re: Transponders
>...
>>I'm afraid that I must aggree for several reasons.  If you look at modern
>>aviation practices 'transponders' are designed to add a ident signal to
>>incoming radar signals for tracking purposes.  The concept of 'fingur
>>printing' space ships to counter piracy is asinine.  All a pirate has to do
>>is have a legal ship and one without any traansponder and he is untracable.
>
>  I'm not sure that I'd use the term "asinine" to describe the idea of
>running a starship around the Imperium without the minimum compliance to
>Imperial security regs required to survive the essentially inevitable
>searches that will occur, but it will do for now.
>
>  Assuming the ship has a transponder that never has to transmit its' real
>ID it still can't risk interacting with most ports (& worlds) without using
>said real ID. How do you know whether to have your real ID (or an absolutely
>or near-perfect fake) or an untraceable/disposable one transmitting when you
>exit Jump?
>
>...
>>short this level of 'big brotherism' is counter productive to the 'prime
>>directive' of the Impire which is the free fow of trade and the maintanence
>>of said free trade.
>
> "Prime directive"? Are you sure that you've got the right universe? In any
>case, reliable ship ID for internal security (and taxation?) purposes hardly
>constitutes "Big Brother-ism". FWIW, I don't know that the 3I has a "free"
>trade fetish, rather than a more general drive towards economic progress.
>

The historical stuff I read concurning the Empire's origins was that they
were a mechanisim to promote free trade.  As for the 'prime directive' I
ment it's primary reason for existance.

As for tax and security I have no problem with a basic Ident system with
antitamper systems.  What I was objecting to was the discription of a Black
Box that recorded and transmited to all other Black Boxes the entire history
of the ship including all stops and all ships met.  This system would be
'big brotherizm' on turbo!  It would also be suicide to do this because any
competant enemy would use this data to plan it's attack on you and the
transponders signal as a homing beacon for their misiles.  In the orginal
post it was said that these transponders could not be disabled.  How do you
run or hide with your radio screaming "Here We Are!!!"?

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:36:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

>Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re:G:Traveller -- a few useful ship construction modules.

>William Prankard writes:
>> 
>> This is by far the best system for module construction in GT yet.  I
have
>> been running myself ragged calculating and recalculating and even
making a
>> spreadsheet to make new modules for GT.  Mr. Jackson has cut out the
>> middleman and passed the savings on to you!

>Thank you for the appreciation.

You're welcome.
Also if you havent read GURPSnet-L yet I have recommended that the info be
put on the archives.

>> 
>> These are by far the best modules.  These simplify the making of
weapons
>> of all sizes.  From turrets to Bays to Spinals.  One question, any
chances
>> of a Laser-X weapon?  I've been working on the "powered" version of a
>> 50ton X-Laser bay an I can tell you that these weapons are brutal.
Long
>> range and high dammage.  Maybe these weapons were ommitted from the GT
>> book for a reason?  FNORD!

>Sure...multiply cost/weight/power use of any weapon by X^2 and multiply
damage
>and range by X.  I didn't do this because I chose to assume that lasers
have a
>maximum energy (much like T4) to avoid the phenomenon of the spinal laser
>mount.

Thats what I had thought, just wanted to make sure.

Yes, there is that pesky TL*50Mj rule for lasers they put out in FFS to
keep us inovative Solomani types at bay.  But how would wbe work that out
for GT which uses different TL's.  GTL+3*50Mj? Yes, that might work. 

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 12:40:13 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

> IMO, Virus was a mistake.  

Then, essentially, we're all just yammering at each other meaninglessly.
I suggest (without much hope) that we let the subject drop, as it's
getting into greasy horse-shaped spot mode now.

Suffice to say IMTU Virus exists, Deyo transponders exist and work as
advertised.

YTUMV.

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:15:55 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

>b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting the
>missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged nuclear
>dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up with a
>laser instead).

For dampers, I have assumed that they have an area of effect - that the
damper node is ten meters or more in diameter (and that a single hit by a 
damping node renders a nuke warhead undetonateable.) This makes a big
difference trying to hit a small high-acceleration-evasion target like a 
missile, since you no longer need to hit it dead on. Repulsor nodes might 
be even bigger - kilometers across - which would let them engage missiles
at very long ranges (several hexes out), with enough time to push a limited-fuel
missile away from intercept, or hold an unlimited-fuel missile still enough 
to pick it off with a laser at long range. I'm not sure it works well,
though.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:23:50 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Alien Races 1

>Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:15:37 +0200 (CEST)
>From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>

>On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Christopher Thrash wrote:
>
>> The page for David Pulver's GT: Alien Races 1 is up on the SJGames website:
>>
>> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/AlienRaces/

>How much of the material in this book will be GURPS specific? Is it worth
>purchasing if I have never read GURPS, and only have the T4 rules?

If it is typical of other books on races in GURPS, it will have
a racial package (a set of abilities and disads that you have
to take to be a member of the race) with GURPS mechanics
(that usually take up a page for each race) and background
info (which is mostly non-GURPS Specific).  The GURPS specific
info is only a few pages, but you would need to come up
with your own T4 racial generation rules (though you can
use the GURPS Racial package as a general guidline).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:25:54 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

>Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:20:20 +0200 (CEST)
>From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>

>Is this supplement worth purchasing if I only have the T4 rulesset? I have
>never read GURPS...

This is very little GURPS specific material in that source book.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:27:19 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Re: Tech advancement

>The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
Hence my statement that defence (armour) had advanced to the point where 
you could put enough on a ship to make it invulnerable to its own carried
weapons. (Note that even ships with no armour - eg equivalent wooden warships -
were unable to carry weapons big enough to defeat ironclads, which implies
that it wasn't just a problem due to undergunning.)

>The forts were defeated by the same type of force that built them which is
>what I said would happen with any technology.
I have no idea what you mean by this statement. Forts were defeated by long
sieges and perhaps infantry attacks - they certainly couldn't be defeated by
mobile artillery.

>Again there is no incryption scheme that has not been beaten.  That it takes
>time I did not dispute.  PGP has been broken for some time.  It just takes a
>while to break each new key.  Decryption technology has kept pace with
>encryption.

This statement is simply not true. 64-bit key schemes have been decrypted,
but while encryption is linear with key size - a 1024-bit key takes about 16
times as long to encrypt as decrypt - decryption is exponential with key length;
a 1024-bit key takes 65,000 times as long to decrypt as a 64-bit, or 
hundreds of years. The fact that people are lazy and use 64-bit keys doesn't
change the nature of the problem, which is that with current technology 
large-key encryption is incredibly more efficient than the equivalent 
decryption - and decryption gets harder much faster as you add more bits. 
That's fundamental to the math. Faster computers won't actually help;
if computers get 60,000 times faster then one can decrypt 1024-bit in a 
reasonable time, but one can then also use million-bit keys relatively 
casually. So, yes, technically PGP has been "broken", but in practice, with
current algorithms, agressive encryption always wins.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:38:45 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature 

> Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
> 
> > IMO, Virus was a mistake.  
> 
> Then, essentially, we're all just yammering at each other meaninglessly.
> I suggest (without much hope) that we let the subject drop, as it's
> getting into greasy horse-shaped spot mode now.
> 
> Suffice to say IMTU Virus exists, Deyo transponders exist and work as
> advertised.

It's 1126 IMTU.  Do you know/care who/where your faction head is???

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:49:39 -0400
From: "Dan Eveland" <develand@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Dogs and USAF

Must be Virus

- -----Original Message-----
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM <TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 12:10 AM
Subject: Dogs and USAF


>First, a problem: about every 3-5 digests, I get a huge file of gibberish.
I
>gather I am missing good stuff here. Is there anything I can do to correct
>this problem. Today, digests 865-867 were each 32 k of this:
>
>    ğ0  Ψ!m  l  0  Ҋ@  K  Μ1  -`   0  Ѐ  1  Ѐ  2  Ѐ
9
>Ѐ2  ӄ 2    0  Ѐ4  ү6  [j 8  Ѐ  0 4  ҂ 9  ЀC M  "   R  ҆M
> S  g90T D 2 0  Ҁ@W   1  X 0  ΀2   s502 5  ү3
t1
>2 3  Ό7  '4  ̺2 9  ү6 7  ү5   1 6 0 6   4     1  
4 1
>1  
> 9 0  
> D E F E C T I V E  2C: 
>  O R  ̆
>  S  +  N C E  -B  
>  L E S S  
>  S  њ!,
> D  8 ` uoNI X
>  E D  -to
>  R  ϥ-  S  P -'i
>  I N G  2o#)fդ3xZ Y@
>  S  
>
> S E   "   ~ȿ "4>M-
>   e(6'sƦ
>  2  ̤
>********************************
>


snip

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:57:46 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

At 05:53 AM 10/2/98 PDT, you wrote:

>Packs are bad, real bad.  One dog is a dog, two or more dogs with
>out a human controlling them is a pack.  Dogs in an uncontrolled
>pack are NOT "man's best friend" they are one of our deadliest
>enemies.  Unlike most predators dog packs aren't afraid of us.  I
>*don't* like packs!  Use a rifle on an uncontrolled pack.

When I was at Ft. Benning, we had an amazing problem with people dumping
unwanted pets on post.  The cats tended to get rabid fast, and the dogs
formed packs.  Every so often squads would have to sent out to sweep
training areas and kill all the dogs they found.  Ever seen a feral poodle?
 Not a pretty sight...
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:59:36 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Firearm Safety (was: Re: Future computing)

At 07:48 PM 10/1/98 PST, you wrote:

>I'd bet you a cookie that if you showed silent footage of an attack to
>someone from say WWII, they'd ber *certain* it was from a Buck Rogers
>serial! 

I've often entertained the fantasy of showing Marshal Ney footage of the
attack in the Gulf.  The cilmination of manuver warfare.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:33:30 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: G:T Questions

Charles Prevatte wrote:

> Gurpslist?  I was not aware of a gurps mail list.  Can you send me
> subscition information?

Must have lost the mail version in my last sys upgrade.Try here.

 http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/resources.html

Go to the link to the Gurps-net Faq, it has all the info.
- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:26:09 -0400
From: cmdrx <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT

I have done some more considering on the matter of lasers and the
modular system.  It was brought up on TML that Lasers in TNE and T4 have
a energy cap.  In those verions it was TL*50Mj.  In GURPS the weapons
usualy have much higher discharge energies than in Traveller.

I've worked it through the modular system and found that GURPS
TL*1,000Mj would be optimal.  This would allow for 50 ton bay lasers,
but not Spinal mounts.

For my examples I am using Xray-Laser Turret x5.75.  This seemed best to
provide a weapon and power plant that would add up to 50spaces
(33spaces weapon + 13spaces power @ TL-10)
(33spaces weapon + 15spaces power @ TL-12)
TL-10 360Mj*(5.75^2)=11903Mj
TL-12 405Mj*(5.75^2)=13390Mj

It looks like GTL*1000Mj would be the way to go, it will make the bays
less powerful than optimal, but thats ok.

Heres a TL-12 50ton Bay to follow this system.

TL-12 12,000Mj 50ton Laser Bay (Turret 5.45)
5d x325(2)  1/2d=110,000mi(11Hex) Max=330,000mi(33Hex)
43 spaces(fits in 50 ton bay)
410 tons 12.7Mcr (includes 535MW Fusion Plant Components)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:34:22 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. Their
first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be the work of the
Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was nobody -
not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.

If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating on
the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle
(sex unknown).

Afterall given that the last GURPS product released before GURPS Traveller
was GURPS Discworld this combination is logical ;0

Paul (who still hasn't seen a copy of GURPS Traveller in the UK)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:51:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT

cmdrx writes:
> I have done some more considering on the matter of lasers and the
> modular system.  It was brought up on TML that Lasers in TNE and T4 have
> a energy cap.  In those verions it was TL*50Mj.  In GURPS the weapons
> usualy have much higher discharge energies than in Traveller.
> 
> I've worked it through the modular system and found that GURPS
> TL*1,000Mj would be optimal.  This would allow for 50 ton bay lasers,
> but not Spinal mounts.

Actually, TL * 50-100 Mj is probably more appropriate -- I don't recall there
being any laser bays in CT, and in TNE/T4 by TL 15 you can max out with a
socket laser, you don't need bay-sized lasers.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:06:44 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

> >The point is that if it's proven to be unforgable (and the Imperials have
no
> >back door in there), it's as effective for the foreign polities to use it
as
> >is it for the Imperials.
> 
> Gary, it is impossible to prove a negative. The only way the foreign
> governments could be sure that the Imperials didn't have a back door would
> be if they had the complete specifications. And even then they couldn't be

Give them complete specs.  I've acquiesed to this... hell... even let them in
RS Omicron (under extremely heavy supervision and internal security, of
course).

> Finally, you ignored the point that the foreign governments would not be
> thriiled to have the TRUTH of their ship movements freely available to the
> Imperials.

This doesn't happen.  All the transponders record is registry information,
etc.

> >That information can never be changed. [...] The point is a running history
> >is kept. [...] The transponder still tells everyone Captain Schmuck once
> >owned it, and allows the bounty hunters sent by the bank to have the
> >starport not allow your ship in the traffic patterns. The same for piracy
> >etc.
> 
> OK. It's obviously useless to try to convince you that the Deyo transponders
> can be forged. Apparently you don't mind that this specifically is contrary

lol.  How can they be forged?  If you've given a method for forging them,
please repost (or give me the date/time of that message).  You have alot of
misconceptions about the operations of the chips. 

> to various previously published material and by inference invalidates quite
> a few other CT and MT adventures (those where such a transponder would make
> the action either impossible or suicidal). So let me ask you one simple

I addressed this in a post to Charles.  What year is TTA set in?  The
transponders were required in 1088 w/ a 12 grace period according to Survival
Margin.  That makes 1100.  Seeing how the Spinward Marches is a backwater,
it's more than acceptable a ship or hundred fell through the cracks...  the
cracks should all be fixed by 1116.

> question: Is this the sort of game environment you want to run your
> Traveller adventures in? A world where the movements of every ship is
> plotted with complete presision and with no way to avoid it?

This is *not* done.  Only registry information.

> It's propably wasted effort, but I'll try once more. The big point of these
> unforgable transponders is that if the approaching ship tells you that it is
> the merchant ship "Completely Harmless" then you know that it is indeed the
> "Completely Harmless". But if the pirate ship "Predator" has had an extra
> transponder installed and that transponder has been told that it has been
> installed in the "Completely Harmless", then it will say so. Later you can
> get rid of the fake transponder and return to being the innocent starmerc
> "Predator".

Hmm... that's a good one.  lol.  Hmm... I don't see this angle quite
covered...  Of course, inspection procedures wouldn't like the prospect of
having two transponders... off hand, i'd say a cymbeline chip would know
another one was nearby...  have part of the breeding programming be to fire
the tamper circuit if one is is within a certain distance (like on the same
ship).  For starters, anyways.

I'm sure that would've come up in the brainstorming meeting...  yeah, thats
it. : )

> Does anyone else besides Gary have trouble understanding why the Imperial
> Navy would like to be able to conceal their ship movements and even put out
> misinformation?

One more time... Only registry information.

> >Traveller "canon" did not end w/ original Traveller. Can you live w/ that?
> 
> As long as the new material is both self-consistent and consistent with
> previously published material, then I welcome it.

You just added two qualifiers.  Of course, you have yet to proove that the
material is not *self-consistent.*  The TTA, for example, is easily explained
(and most of the area behind the claw can go for the same expanation).
Backwater, not yet inline w/ imperial regulations.

> >It didn't stay stuck in a rut in the road, but developed and improved.
> 
> That seems to be the difference between us. You see _any_ development,
> however silly, as an improvement. I only see the improvements as
> improvements.

"In the interest of moving this discussion along I'll refrain from the
obvious rejoinder."  ; )

> >How are their ship movements uncovered?  You're not setting up a straw man
> >for yourself, are you? There is this little "mute" button.
> 
> Every time a merchant ship encounters an IN ship it will be able to provide
> the warship with complete information about the movements of all ships that
> has used its transponder near a merchant ship with which it has been in
> contact. Not as a result of a special effort on the part of the IN, but as

Yet again.  Only registry information.  Not everywhere it goes.

> >So the Imperium has learned none of the lessons since, right? And their
> >intelligence aparatus is no more effective that that of the US c1950,
right?
> 
> I don't think human nature has changed much over the years. And would you

Human nature? lol.  

> like to set your adventures in a universe where the intelligence apparatus
> is that effective?

For an isolated location (like say the white house, or NORAD, etc etc), sure. 

> >Assuming no further discoveries in the (near, much less far) future...  is
> >this unlikely to change in 3600 years?
> 
> As an interllectual exercise I'm quite prepared to assume that tamperproof
> transponders could be made (I don't think the one described in _Survival
> Margin_ is one such, but that's by the way). THe real questions are: Do you
> think the Traveller universe as described in the rest of the material we
> have  --  everything EXCEPT _Survival Margin_, more or less  --  really do
> describe a universe where transponders are tamperproof and provide perfect
> (after the fact) information about all ship movement? And would you like to
> run your adventures in such a universe?

I see nothing in MT (outside of DGP and that is limited to the SOM) which
invalidates that Deyo transponders are part of everyday use.  The only
inconsistencies would be TTA, adventures etc.  All in the Spinward Marches
area (and explanable by "backwater").

Only registry information is recorded by the transponder.  And in any case,
the transponders aren't used in the New Era.   They're history, man. : )

> >...The transponder only kept a current and running history of the registry,
> >not everywhere it went, what it did,etc etc.
> 
> I thought that was precisely what _Survival Margin_ claimed they did.

Nope.  Last time...  Only registry information. : )

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:06:37 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

> Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone elese) with the
> Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
> transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they did
> make said scan they never said or did anything about it?

Explainable by other means, in any case.  The organic computer cores in most
TL13+ starships for one... would they register? Synaptic processing?

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:06:51 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

> >> free merchants of the merchant merine to use them if they all said no?
They
> >
> >There's these Big Sticks (tm) called the Imperial Navy and Imperial
Marines.
> >It's a velvet glove on an iron fist.  'Nuff said.
> >
> 
> No not 'nuff said'.  Navy fall down go boom without logistic.  And what

Yes 'nuff said.  Nanee nah nee nah nah!  

> about all those PEOPLE in the Navy who don't want big brother looking over
> their shoulder.  The Empire could never stand against the MM in a show down.
> This is true today.  The US army is no match for the US people.  The Empire

There wouldn't be a general uprising.  Most would appreciate the sentiment and
security of a reliable transponder system.  The quacks would be worried bout
Big Brother, maybe... I'm sure the populace of the US (much less other nations
where firearms are far more restricted) would do quite well w/ handguns and
rifles against the automatic weapons, main battle tanks, and air power of the
US armed forces... yeah right.   You go right on thinking that.  

A 100,000 dt Battleship is going smear the tiny merchant ships even if it's
outnumbered 10,000 to one.  The Imperial Navy and Imperial Marines are the Big
Stick of the Imperium.  It worked to subjugate vast regions of resistant areas
(and their mainline armed forces) successfully.

> Navy would be atmost .1% the size the the MM.  No larger Navy could be
> supported by the economy.  See pocket empires.

I'll take the Imperial Navy against the MM.  Any day of the week (well maybe
not on Tuesday<g>).

> >Huh?  What are you talking about?  A mixture of Big Brother paranoia and EM
> >spectrum?
> 
> No basic token ring network theory.  The data past would have to be loged to
> maintain the intergraty of the system.  If loged it can be extracted.  If

Only *registry information* is logged.  Not ship movements, etc.  ONLY
registry information.  

> To make the BBs as difficult to break as you say they are them cross
> indexing is necessary or you in up with a data stream that is to short and
> to easy to forge.  Those chips have to have something substansive to chatter
> about or their chatter will be useless for the purpose of validation.  So
> what do they talk about if not their own rather limited experience.  Their
> ownly experience is talking with others of their kind and that is who, what,
> when, and where data on every ship they have met.

I'll paraphrase from Survival Margin pg 70.  

The chips simply judge whether they *believe* the other transponder chip to be
authentic, based the way each chip demonstrates its thought processes.  The
way the conversation goes convinces them one way or the other.  All authentic
chips have teh same slow mutation at the same constant rate.  They will also
show incremental change in their thought processes over time.  The recognition
of this change in a previously encountered chip is crucial to establishing
that it's not been merely copied and counterfeited.  By testing these
indicators against the parallel SDG control circuit and its own data in the
ships main computer and its own memory chip, the chip assesses a new contact
as authentic or flawed.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 00:08:40 +0100
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Nits

Andy Akins wrote:

> I would agree with the last statement - while everyone might _base_ their
> rules on one of the standards, I would guess (and it is a guess) that most
> of us add our own quirks.
>
> For the record, I'm a CT man myself, but I use from all sources.

My preference as well. I've just spent the evening doing comparative ship
designs and still get a warm feeling when reading through CT.

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 18:33:19 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

At 10:34 PM 10/2/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. Their
>first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be the work of the
>Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was nobody -
>not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.
>
>If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating on
>the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle
>(sex unknown).
>
>Afterall given that the last GURPS product released before GURPS Traveller
>was GURPS Discworld this combination is logical ;0


Nah, not silly.  I'm currently running a Traveller/Morrow Project crossover...


Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #876
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Friday, October 2 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 877



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: G:T  Creating Deckplans Sidebar
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
GT: heavy cargo tender
Ine Givar Article on "Pyramid"
Re: G:T  Creating Deckplans Sidebar
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: GT: Alien Races 1
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Virus
Re Virus
Re Transponders
Re: Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit
Re Vargr Specialty Products
Re Repulsors
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:37:33 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: G:T  Creating Deckplans Sidebar

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Steve Daniels wrote:

>Is it just me, or is the 4-hexes/space too low?
>I think they meant to say 6 Gurps-hexes / space.
>(and they almost did).  Here's why
>
>Area per hex:
>A hex 1-yard wide at widest point can be
>figured at 6 triangles, 1.5 feet/side.
>
>(1/2 * 1.5^2) * 6 =
>3 * 1.5^2 =
>6.75 sq. ft
>

you have this formula wrong, it should be

6* (1/2 * 1.5^2) * sqrt(3) =
this results in an area of 11.69 sqft

>The Creating Deckplans sidebar (P.153) says:
>"Assuming a headroom of about 8-9 feet and some room
>under the decks, a 'space' in a module can be represented
>by six squares or four hexes (GMs option)."
>
>1 space = 500 cf
>500 cf / 4 hexes = 125 cf/hex
>
>125 cf/hex  /  6.75 sq. ft/hex  = 18.52 feet!!
>

125cf/hex / 11.69sqft/hex = 10.69 ft

<snip>

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:37:22 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

Steven Hudson wrote:

>>Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone elese) with the
>>Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
>>transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they
did
>>make said scan they never said or did anything about it?
>
>  That talent didn't specifically exist under The One True System
(i.e., CT)
>
>  Heretic.

I saw this tallent long before MT an a magizine trying to identify the
Special catigory

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:37:42 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Anthony Jackson wrote:

>Traveller has historically had 'repulsors' for defense against missile
fire --
>these aren't in G:Traveller, though it might be possible to model them.

>Questions for those with more knowledge of the background than me,
though:
>
>a)  What did they do?  Just pushed things away?  This seems of limited
value
>against kinetic-kill missiles, unless you assume _huge_ potential
thrust.
>b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting
the
>missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged
nuclear
>dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up
with a
>laser instead).

Repulsors are focused gravetic push??  Repulsors were implimented when
it was assumed that the missles were contact explosions (CT).  A small
push at the right instant would make these miss and reduce the damage by
an order of magnatude.  This lead to the discussion of using det nucs to
detanate outside the range of the repulsors(MT).  IMTU they are only
useful against contact explosives and kinetic-kill missles (less so as
KK's have a high approach velocity).  therefore find very little use.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:37:50 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ideas for GURPS Traveller ships

Sethkimmel wrote:

>Unassigned 'riders make great SDB's (a type T Meson gun demands
>respect....).

IMTU when Battle Riders were annonced as being decommissioned, systems
were vying for an oppritunity to barrow one or two riders as system
defence cruisers.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:33:55 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> Traveller has historically had 'repulsors' for defense against missile fire --
> these aren't in G:Traveller, though it might be possible to model them.
> Questions for those with more knowledge of the background than me, though:
> 
> a)  What did they do?  Just pushed things away?  This seems of limited value
> against kinetic-kill missiles, unless you assume _huge_ potential thrust.

The effect on a missile would likely be similar to the effect on the
human body of falling at terminal velocity into a large body of water: 
deleterious.  Or, as we used to joke about when I was on jump status,
can you say "Sudden Deceleration Trauma?"  Even if the repulsors don't
stop the thing cold, the "impact" is likely to destroy the delicate
electronics that make a nuke (det laser or other) go "Boom."

> b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting the
> missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged nuclear
> dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up with a
> laser instead).

IMTU (YTUMV), repulsors and dampers have a wider area of effect than a
laser would.  In other words, against one or two missiles, a laser is
fine.  Against a swarm of the pestilential things, repulsors and/or
dampers will stop more missiles than the equivalent number/power drain
of lasers.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 18:15:07 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
> 
> At 10:34 PM 10/2/98 +0100, you wrote:
> >Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. Their
> >first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be the work of the
> >Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was nobody -
> >not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.
> >
> >If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating on
> >the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle
> >(sex unknown).
> >
> >Afterall given that the last GURPS product released before GURPS Traveller
> >was GURPS Discworld this combination is logical ;0
> 
> Nah, not silly.  I'm currently running a Traveller/Morrow Project crossover...
> 
You could always go with a "Bunnies & Burrows"/Vargr crossover....  Yum!

> Kurt Feltenberger
> 
> We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
> habit.
> --- Aristotle ---
> 
> mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:18:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: GT: heavy cargo tender

Occurred to me that the 'jump tender' theory might be useful for merchant ships
as well as warship.  This uses a couple of extra modules -- specifically the
separate power plants which I previously posted, and a few described in the
text.  Comments?  Yah, it's a huge ship, but there's cargo ships on earth with
comparable displacement, so I can't say it's _that_ horribly large.  On the
plus side, it appears that in G:Traveller it may actually be possible to make
money as a merchant ;)

TL 10 cargo tender:

This is a standard tender ship for bulk cargo -- it is capable of dragging
along twice it's own displacement along the mains, and (with a substantial
drop in capacity) can transit jump-2, or even jump-3; with nothing carried
the ship itself can transit at jump-4, which can be very useful in situations
where the volume of trade in two directions is dramatically different.  
While the cargo tender is a civilian ship, many of them have limited
imperial subsidies, allowing them to be used as light jump tenders for
SDBs and other light warships.

The main theory behind a jump tender for cargo is reducing turnover time
- -- the tender drops off a standardized cargo container with all cargo
dedicated for the planet when it enters orbit, and picks up any outbound
cargo at the same time.  This is, obviously, dependent on having a cargo
factor available at the planet (who handles loading and unloading); it
also encourages extremely _regular_ schedules, which occasionally leads
to empty cargo holds, but for the megacorps it can be worth the effort.
In most case cargo containers have dedicated stationkeeping thrusters,
though this is not always true.

A particular feature of this ship is that in it's most common configuration,
transiting along J-1 mains, by dropping its cargo it is capable of jumping
without refueling.  While this is not too important along safe routes,
it can be a major feature in troubled areas.

Note that this ship is streamlined.  This streamlining does not apply when
it is using its external grapples.  This does allow the ship to drop its
cargo, refuel at a gas giant, and return to recover its cargo.

Modules: hull class 4000 SL (area 100,000), 30 turrets (area 24,000),
    1120 tons armor (DR 200 body, 100 turrets), sealed, command bridge,
    two engineering modules, 240 units 'unpowered jump' require 2.4 GW,
    1600 units jump fuel, 15 fuel processors (120/hr), 34 staterooms,
    sickbay, 8 utility, 8 'tractor' units (see below), 8 x 5,000 ton
    external cradle (40 space each), 40-space spacedock holds 10,000 cf in
    vehicles, 5 CG units (40 kT lift, 80 MW), 650 units (52 kT) unpowered
    unvectored manuever drive (5.2 GW), 140 space (5.6 GW) power plant. 
    Typical loadout adds ten triple laser turrets (requiring 360 MW), ten
    triple sandcasters, ten triple missile turrets.
Statistics: 4,000 spaces, size +11, 12.3 kilotons unloaded, 52 kilotons
    max load.  4 Gs unloaded (+3 Gs CG), 1 G fully loaded.  Jump-1 with
    8 thousand-space cargo bricks (using 1200 tons fuel), Jump-2 with 4
    (1600 tons fuel), Jump-3 with up to 1300 spaces in smaller cargo
    (1600 tons fuel), Jump-4 with no external equipment.  Max atmospheric
    speed (with no external mounts) 5600 mph.  $1287 MCr, including weapons
    mix listed above but no missiles.
Crew Requirements: bridge crew is normally captain, pilot, navigator,
    sensors, communication, computer operations.  Add two medics and
    thirty engineers, plus typically a night shift bridge crew of
    XO, pilot, sensors, and comms, and six gunners (batteries of five
    turrets).  Total 50.

Module: tractor beam.  A ST 6,000 combination tractor/pressor beam in a
    casement mount.  One space, 10.5 tons, $0.082 MCr.  Can apply 60
    tons of force.  Requires 6 megawatts of power.
Module: external cradle.  Per space, 12.5 tons, $0.025 MCr, capable of
    holding 125 tons (mass) of ship.

cargo brick (with stationkeeping thrusters)
    1000 space unstreamlined hull (area 40,000).  DR 100 armor, sealed.
    One engineering, cockpit bridge with no power plant core, one stateroom
    (for cargo factor), two utility units, an air/raft bay, a 10,000
    cf spacedock for cargo, 940 spaces cargo, 8 kiloton unpowered CG,
    50 ton manuever drives, 21 megawatts of power.
Statistics: 283 tons unloaded, up to 5 kilotons loaded.  Performance from
    .17 Gs unloaded to .01 Gs fully loaded.  $9.1 MCr.

Economic Analysis: assuming about 20 bricks are actually in use on a given
route, the net cost is about 1.5 GCr for some 7500 spaces of cargo capacity,
or about 0.2 MCr per space.  By comparison, two kiloton unstreamlined
cargo carriers run about 0.16 MCr per space; J-2 carriers run about 0.25
MCr per space.  As such, if you can save 20% on turnover time, or the
ability to do an occasional J-2 is needed, this is an efficient ship.
(incidentally, far traders run about 0.25 MCr per space for cargo or crew.
Have fun competing with major haulers)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 18:36:44 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Ine Givar Article on "Pyramid"

Kudos are due to Andrew Moffet-Vallance, for his article, posted today
on the Pyramid Web site, about the Ine Givar movement.  Tres cool stuff
there!

Obviously, I can't post the URL for the article itself, but I do want to
alert y'all that Pyramid looks to become a good source of Traveller
material.  (In fact, for those who don't know this already, Pyramid
subscribers get to playtest new material, such as "Behind the Claw.")

Here's a link to SJG, for those who don't have it:

http://www.sjgames.com

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:47:58 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: G:T  Creating Deckplans Sidebar

Charles R Hensley wrote:

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Steve Daniels wrote:
>
> >Is it just me, or is the 4-hexes/space too low?

[snip]

> you have this formula wrong, it should be
>
> 6* (1/2 * 1.5^2) * sqrt(3) =
> this results in an area of 11.69 sqft

Damn those isoceles triangles!!!!!!!

Thanks Charles.  I'm sitting down and shutting up now.


> 125cf/hex / 11.69sqft/hex = 10.69 ft

Still looks funny though.  ;-)

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:54:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Hm...based on the responses gained, and some knowledge about GURPS, for
implementation in GURPS I'm inclined towards:

Repulsor: a repulsor is a tractor beam variant -- as well as being able to
apply force at range, it can produce bursts of force which are sufficiently
powerful to cause damage.  A repulsor is constructed as a gravmop, with the
following adjustments:
Beam can be used either to cause damage (standard gravmop stats) or as a
pressor beam.
When used to cause damage, use normal gravmop stats, _except_ that (a) TL is
10, but weight is doubled, (b) damage is always crushing, (c) the damage covers
a one hex radius, (d) range is *10 in space, and (e) the damage may, if
desired, be spread -- divide damage by the actual radius of the attack.  If
shooting at small objects, there is a base +1 to hit, and use the _larger_ of
<size of object> and <size of beam>.  The size modifier for the beam depends on
the radius -- use the size/range table for the radius and add 2.

When used as a tractor, power consumption is per _minute_, and it has a ST
equal to 10*dice of damage; it may be spread as above.

Effect: a turret-sized repulsor has similar power consumption to a laser; at TL
12 it has ST 360 at 1100 miles in space, and does 6d*7(100).  As 14d(100) is
plenty for missiles, we can use a 3 yard radius (size +3) giving it a total of
+4 to hit.  A bay-sized repulsor does 6d*50, and can reasonable use a 20 yard
(+9 to hit) or even 30 yard (+10) and be effective...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: GT: Alien Races 1

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, David P. Summers wrote:

> If it is typical of other books on races in GURPS, it will have
> a racial package (a set of abilities and disads that you have
> to take to be a member of the race) with GURPS mechanics
> (that usually take up a page for each race) and background
> info (which is mostly non-GURPS Specific).  The GURPS specific
> info is only a few pages, but you would need to come up
> with your own T4 racial generation rules (though you can
> use the GURPS Racial package as a general guidline).

IIRC, GURPS is a simple system. I guess it won't be too hard to create
character generation rules, especially not if the meaning of the
advantages/disadvantages are easy to understand ('Huge size', 'Extra
limbs'). Is this the case?

I have made my mind up about BTC and Z&V... I MUST HAVE THEM ;-)

Thanks folks, for once again destroying my monthly budget... I love it!

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:18:31 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:07:18 -0400, you wrote:

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
>
>In a message dated 10/2/98 4:05:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:
>
><< And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten people
>from
> this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system as
>being
> the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\
>  >>
>
>I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I prefer
>MT)....

Hmm. Well, you must be wrong for a start ... I loathe MT, prefer TNE, but also
like T4 enough to keep it in preference to TNE.

There has been a significant indication of people liking CT and T4 over TNE and
MTRav too.

Maybe the majority would go for TNE and MTrav systems, but I don't think that it
would be 50:50.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:50:34 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Virus

Kurt Feltenberger:
>IMO, Virus was a mistake.  If anone on the development group for TNE is on
>the list and takes offense, I apologize for upsetting you, but not for my
>opinon.  

I'm on the list, but I never take offense at people's honestly expressed
opinions. You haven't accused me of plagiarism (which used to happen about
twice a year in the "good old days"), or called me an ignorant money-grubbing
*******, and that's what it takes to get me irritated.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:26:50 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Virus

>4)  The only real posibility of the virus working is if the computers are
>nueral net systems (like the chip are themselves).  Then the virus would
>pass as a seed in the form of a program then impress the basic pattern of
>the virus chip into the nueral net.  This would get the effect discribed in
>TNE.  This would make all non neural nets system somewhat resistant to the
>virus as they could be flushed and reloaded from read only media to
>completely remove the virus.  From what I gather this was the fix used in
>TNE to allow computers to once again be useful.  I have very little access
>to TNE material.
>
>How does this match with TNE canon?

Dunno specifically with TNE cannon, but, based upon Bk 8: Robots (CT/MT),
by TL 13, synaptic processing is in most computers in limited ammounts,
backed by massivly parrallel systems.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:23:39 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Transponders

>Very reasonable and well reasoned...so far but what is the limits of data
>stored and transmited in your estimation?  Is it just the Vehicle
>Identification Number in the way of todays air craft transponders or is it
>more.  In my campains so far I treat the BB as simple squak boxes and let
>the ships purchase data bases to identify the ship by its' VIN.  The BBs do
>not store any contact or other data.  Only the VIN.  They are 'reasonablly
>foolproof' sealed with the VIN multiply redundantly stored and encoded.
>Absolute verification comes from the database purchased from the Empires MM
>and the equivalent of 'Janes Spaceships'.  If the squak does not match the
>ships sensor 'fingure print' in the data base then you got reason to
>investigate.  It is a fairly safe and effective cross checked system as the
>data base is maitained and updated by the Empires Department of Ships
>Registry.  Updates are available for a small fee at all class A & B
>starports and can be considered part of the maitainence cost if you do not
>want to have your PC have to deal with the detains.  All 'inspection' ships
>are in the minimum registry by law and no ship is required to heave to for
>any ship not in the minimum registry.

IMTU, THE Pre SDG chips contained VIN, Name, Owner of Record, Home Port,
Last Maintenance, Last registry payement date, Class, Displacement, Turrets
(but not armament therein), Carriage limits (Td cargo, LSR, SSR, LB, ELB),
Any non-turret weapons, and Owner Status (as of last annual maintenance, in
Owned, Owned with Lien, Leased and Lessor, Loaned and borrower). Only VIN,
Name, Home Port,Transponder Model No. and Displacement are sent on a normal
squawk. An algorythm based upon these and the requesting ship's ID can get
the rest.

The SDG chips have all of the above, and may, if connected to the 'puter,
have access to ship's log and manifests, as well as being able to deduce
the armaments from the programs in the 'puter. It has all of the standard
knowledge provided at install, and also keeps a list of transponders it has
talked to and their VIN's, and an analysis of the veracity (in the chip's
opinion) of the data-flow it has recieved. It also has a semi-volatile ram
area for more details on the most recent contacts. It also has a
recreational ram area, where it can put data of interest to its self, and
an area of hard-code for a standard reference database. I figure the black
box to be pretty much a solid IC unit... 3 dimensional circutry. With a
socket for the SDG chip, which is secured with a tel-tale that goes off
when any of the screws is removed. Info available is the same, plus, if the
chip feels it is dealing with a valid and trustworthy Imp-Mil chip,
anything else it may know.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 22:08:19 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Booing Harris at Mandela's Visit

"Leo Hale" <lhale@panlabs.com> writes:
>      Might I suggest an Aslan Duel assasin?  They are very efficient, and
>      will take payment in land.

Excellent idea. And if we grant the assassin land in a greenbelt, we can
be certain that it will stay untouched by developers :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:12:21 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Vargr Specialty Products

>Ob, Trav.  What kind of Vargr specialty products would be common
>to encounter?  Besides clothing with tail slot.  Fine combs and brushes?
>(Which might be useful to Aslan as well).  Tooth Sharpeners?
>

Based upon the old GDW alien module and upon DGP's Vilani & Vargr, and
essentially IMTU:

Personal Care utensils: Combs, Brushes, Brets (decorative, especially),
Manicure Sets, denticure sets (including toothbrushes and tooth files, and
sealant kits for use after filing).

Consumables: Scented shampoos, spices, perfumes (oft too delicate for
humans), hair/fur colorants, breath fresheners, ingested pheremone
production stimulants. Candies, especially meat-including ones. Highly
flavorful fruits.

Clothing: Not just the tail slot, but a much wider array (in less depth) of
patterns, cuts, and materials. Humans COULD wear most vargr clothing with
the exception of footwear... altho most wouldn't. The running gag in my
campaigns is the Vasrgr in Plaid Shorts and an Aloha shirt, in contrasting
scemes.

Jewelery: Pretty much same range of items as humans, but with different
stylistic tendancies, especially less "Harmonious" designs than humans
generally would accept.

Tools: Most human tools designed to use a strong pushing or thrusting
action would have vargr versions, most of the rest vargr can use human
ones. Stylistic variants for equipment casings also abound. (ForEx: Vargr
PC's would use much more color on the cases, and much more pattering. Make
even the iMac look bland.)

Intangibles: Data, recordings, books, art, literature. Plenty of crossover
with appropriate price reductions; minimal human resale value compared to
vargr resale value.

Scams: Higher likelyhood of non-efficatious medicinal and hygene products.

Accessories: Sunglasses, Scarves, Decorative brets/combs/hairclips.
Obnoxious handbags, bet pouches, etc. Pens in really obnoxiously large
arrays of colors, and some with scented inks.

Furiture: just about anything beyond beds. Human furniture tends to, at the
least, allow tails only as an afterthought. In the marches, and the domains
of deneb and antares, IMTU, most starship couches have a removeable tail
pass-trhough because of the relatively high numbers of vargr (and in the
marches, aslan).

Medicinals: WHile human and vargr medicinals would have a higher overlap
than any other combination of different races (save Human variant and Human
variant), there would be a good bit of difference, since even
human-wolf/dog medicinals vary considerably.

Pets: Mild difference in tastes, altho most pets acceptable to vargr could
be found a good home amonst humans and vice versa.


Gvordz Grouzr
A casual encounter
	Gvords is a fairly well-off vargr merchant. He wears (typically) a
nice 3 piece buisiness suit, with bowtie. Typically, he will be found with
fowered shirts, and psychodelic jackets and matching trousers, with a
contrasting flowered or patterned vest and matching bowtie. Each pattern,
in and of itself, tends to be vibrant but within human acceptable norms.
Added to this is his use of a variety of ear-rings and ear-cuffs, and often
an augillete (Shoulder cord) or two.
	Conducting buisines with Gvordz is prety much like doing so with a
human, save that the initial banter will generally determine the outcome
(carousing, leader, or persuasion to establish the dominant position
without blowing the deal). He tends to order a warm, rare steak with a
highly spiced fruit-based sauce (think of chutney), and a small bowl of
whatevver fruits are in season, and expects the buyer to buy or to go
dutch... He will only pick up the whole tab if the above mentioned roll is
a critical success, and go dutch on a success. He tends to be very literal
if he feels slighted, and very chummy otherwise.
	Gvordz specializes in brokering at Regni Downs, and likes the wide
variety of people and races he meets. If asked, his sole comment on
Humaniti is that they tend to be so poorly diversified phisiologically and
visually, and don't even try to make up for it with clothing. Essentially,
he thinks of the human race in vargr terms: packish and adaptable. Gvouds
will not deal with Eibokin (too rigid) or Dandie (too unreadable) persons
except in the most peripheral manners.
	Gvordz has a ship-cat he acquired in a bizzare 5-node-ring swap,
along with a particularly valuable (to his vargr buyer) cargo of rare,
live, edible arthropoids (read: Lobsteroids). His cat is called Vrkrkr,
which he claims is an anchient dialect's word for "senior slave". Truth is,
he made up the name, and the back-story, but will absolutely deny this.
Pushing the issue is a sure way to get him angry.
	One other quirk of note: After shaking hands, he will sniff his
palms. He does this to fix the scent of the person in his mind.
	Gvordz is skilled in Gambling, Carousing, Hob-nobing, Brokering,
and knowledge of a wide variety of cuisines specific to the residents of
the Regina Subsector. He is of average build and coordination, and slightly
above average charisma and intelligence, and quite high education, but is
of middle class imperial social standing.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:17:41 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Repulsors

>a)  What did they do?  Just pushed things away?  This seems of limited value
>against kinetic-kill missiles, unless you assume _huge_ potential thrust.

my understanding is that they simply apply a vector change to the object.

>b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting the
>missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged nuclear
>dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up with a
>laser instead).
>
Defense in depth, as well as docking maneuvers, and the supporting
technology for launch tubes at high TL's. Dampers also have the added
benefit of being abkle to shut down a fighter, if you follow the logical
extension of the weapon, allowing recovery of pilots for intelligence.
Ditto for piracy and customs.

Also, repulsors can deflect rammers, lasers cannot. The difference between
a ram and a graze is going to be huge, IMHO.

I asume Newton's laws still apply, so pushing b from a also pushes a.
Thusly, a repusor can aid in fine docking maneuvers.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 22:52:44 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

At 09:25 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Dusty wrote:
<Snip>...
>   1)  THIS IS NOT TRAVELLER!!!   This is Traveller thru a GURPS lens.  I
have
>always held that GURPS is a good system, but it has that word in it:
GENERIC.
>I don't believe it can give the overiding attention to detail to the Trav
>universe that a Traveller game can.  Loren Wiseman has obviously put his
heart
>and soul into making this project the best he can...and he deserves every
>accolade that he could possible get for it.   But I truly wish that this
>obvious enthusiasm could have gone into T5 w/ Mr. Miller...or that SJG would
>have let this be done as a stand alone system not using GURPS.
>

Please elaborate...  It seems to me that there're two parts: game system
and mythos (and mythos support).  If  both are acceptable, you have a good
match.  If one or the other isn't, you have, maybe, an adequate match.  If
neither are, you have junk.

the essence of Traveller, to me, is in the mythos.  We played Runes in
Space (An amalgam of Other Suns, Runequest, and CT, set in 1107 in the
Spinward Marches) and that, to our group, was Traveller.  The rules worked
(OK - they were more detailed than CT, but we accepted that), and the
mythos was great!

Granted, one must like GURPS to think the former (game system) is
acceptable (I happen to).  All we have to go with so far wrt G:T in mythos
support is the book itself.  If follow-on volumes are to that standard, I,
for one, will have little to complain about.  Note:  the overriding
attention to detail of the Trav universe will reveal itself in the present
G:T book and in other follow-on supplements.  If SJG drops the ball and the
follow-ons are badly done or few and far between (or both), then I'll agree
with you.  

Do you dislike the game system itself - the mechanics of play, the task
resolution (OK - skill usage; it works out to basically the same thing),
etc.? or do you dislike the support material appearing in G:T?  





Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #877
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Saturday, October 3 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 878



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

A Retraction
Re : repulsors
"It Isn't Traveller"
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 
re: Nits
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: GT: heavy cargo tender
GT: Behind the Claw
re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...
Re: GT: Behind the Claw
Re: fighters
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Re Vargr Specialty Products
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:10:03 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: A Retraction

A communication I received from Steve Jackson indicates that an earlier
post I made about a distributor selling out of GURPS Traveller quickly was
in error. This information came to me by way of an ICQ conversation and
later phone conversation with a friend of mine who owns a small bookstore
in the Upper Peninsula that sells some gaming stuff. I did not
intentionally perpetrate a falsehood; I am not up on where distributors are
located, and had no reason to disbelieve my friend (I do now...). In any
event, I apologize for spreading misinformation.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 13:18:35 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : repulsors

Anthony Jackson wrote :-

> Traveller has historically had 'repulsors' for defense against missile fire --
> these aren't in G:Traveller, though it might be possible to model them.
> Questions for those with more knowledge of the background than me, though:
>
> a)  What did they do?  Just pushed things away?  This seems of limited value
> against kinetic-kill missiles, unless you assume _huge_ potential thrust.
> b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting the
> missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged nuclear
> dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up with a
> laser instead).
>
Repulsors were initially described as focussed contragravity projectors
that either deflected incoming missiles (?small craft) ; or, at greater
levels of efficiency, shredded them by locally increasing gravity around
or through the object (all spacecraft should have 6G+ rated structure
<g>), and then deflected the fragments....Yep, big energies are required
(however only rated at 2500MW for 100-ton bay in MT, 2kW / kN in FF&S2
(50% input to push efficiency)).

They were dropped from TNE and subsequent editions and have been
incorporated into tractor/manipulator beams (TL 16+).

Good point defence with beam weapons is probably easier to reconcile
with usual Traveller tech levels.

I agree that nuclear dampers are a little redundant in TNE/T4 (max range
50000km?) with lasers having a range of potentially 10X that. Perhaps
the firing solution for a damper doesn't need to be so precise (a la
Bruce Mac) ; and it's the last hope when your point defence fails...

Where do repulsors come in ? We've have some discussion of Honor
Harrington's universe and the 'Weber gravitational lensing' system on
the list recently.

Perhaps the 'wedges' are produced by several batteries of really souped
up repulsors!

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gearhead and Gaming Enthusiast

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:33:11 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: "It Isn't Traveller"

> 
> >   1)  THIS IS NOT TRAVELLER!!!   This is Traveller thru a GURPS lens. 
I have
> >always held that GURPS is a good system, but it has that word in it: 
GENERIC.
> >I don't believe it can give the overiding attention to detail to the
Trav
> >universe that a Traveller game can.  Loren Wiseman has obviously put his
heart

I confess I don't understand this. The system is generic, yes, but it can
and has been tweaked on a number of occasions in the past to work with
specific game worlds or game conversions, and does fairly well. I'm not
sure what "attention to detail" you mean. You mean the mindbending
complexity of FF&S? I will say GURPS does at LEAST as well as CT does in
covering the bases, and with what IMO is a better game system.

> >and soul into making this project the best he can...and he deserves
every
> >accolade that he could possible get for it.   But I truly wish that this
> >obvious enthusiasm could have gone into T5 w/ Mr. Miller...or that SJG
would
> >have let this be done as a stand alone system not using GURPS.
> 
> Sight unseen, I tend to agree with this. I simply do not see how you can
> successfully use a point build character system to represent the
character
> generation system that has been basically used in all editions of
traveller from
> day one. 

Apart from the problems in making a statement about anything "sight
unseen", you're right. It doesn't model the Traveller character creation
rules...and for that, I am thankful. It is after all GURPS Traveller. And
we definitley disagree about what constitutes the heart and soul of
Traveller. For me, from the beginning of my involvement with Traveller, it
has always been the history and background of the Traveller universe that I
have been most interested in...the history BEFORE the Rebellion. I am one
of those people who liked TNE. I like the MT game system, but found the
storyline depressing and never did much with it. I am happy to have the
alternate history to play around in. And I am happy to have it in what has
always been one of my favorite game systems.

Now, someone WAS working on a Traveller-style character creation system for
GT. I think this would be a fun thing, and would enjoy seeing it
completed..but I won't use it. I like having the control, the choice, and
ever since the first time I built a Champions character, I have preferred
point-building to random creation.

This is, of course, my opinion.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:13:49 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

In a message dated 10/2/98 2:18:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< When I was at Ft. Benning, we had an amazing problem with people dumping
 unwanted pets on post.  The cats tended to get rabid fast, and the dogs
 formed packs.  Every so often squads would have to sent out to sweep
 training areas and kill all the dogs they found.  Ever seen a feral poodle?
  Not a pretty sight...
 -- >>

People really suck....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 01:15:33 -0400
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

Phillip McGregor wrote:

>>I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I prefer
>>MT)....
>
>Hmm. Well, you must be wrong for a start ... I loathe MT, prefer TNE, but
also
>like T4 enough to keep it in preference to TNE.

   Just before "T4" came out I took a poll of the Traveller players on this
list.  Around half used some form of TNE, while the bulk of the remainder
used the CT rules or some variation thereof.  There were very few people
who used MT.

>There has been a significant indication of people liking CT and T4 over TNE and
>MTRav too.

   I would suspect that most of those who are using "T4" are actually CTers
who converted to the new system.  Few TNE players converted, and of those
who did most who are still around are playing some sort of TNE/"T4" hybrid.

   It would be interesting to see who still plays what.  Unfortunately this
list isn't as universal as it once was, thus the survey results will tend
to be overly biased toward "T4" and G:T.

   As for my own game play, I still use TNE with some minor house rule
adjustments.  While I don't so much hate MT, I do strongly dislike how it
was carried out, particularly all the errata problems and the lack of
justification to the storyline (to this day I remained unconvinced by the
arguments presented in the MT books that the Imperium was this decayed
structure waiting for something to push it over--there simply was no setup
for this in CT, if anything the 3I is protrayed as being extremely
healthy).  At the same time I understand why GDW felt the need to shake up
the storyline.  Ten years of the same thing can get pretty boring, both the
write and to read.  As for "T4", IMHO pick through and find the bits you
like and burn the rest.  Too many unresolved problems both storywise and
mechanically.  There is a reason why "T5" went from being just another
revision to being essentially a new system.  As for G:T...whatever floats
your boat and pulls your oars through the water.  I know what it is, but
don't care to get into it in this forum (good luck Loren).

Regards,

Harold
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 01:23:32 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 

> Traveller. For me, from the beginning of my involvement with Traveller, it
> has always been the history and background of the Traveller universe that I
> have been most interested in...the history BEFORE the Rebellion. I am one
> of those people who liked TNE. I like the MT game system, but found the
> storyline depressing and never did much with it. I am happy to have the
> alternate history to play around in. And I am happy to have it in what has
> always been one of my favorite game systems.

For me (and my players), we *welcome* the Rebellion.  It gives them a chance 
to do something *right* for a change, something that makes a *difference*.  
I'm not sure about the TNE timeline, though.  Fortunately, my campaign is at 
the beginning of 1126, so we don't have to worry about Virus for a good long 
while (or mebbe *NEVER* if I decide to ignore it altogether...)

Areas like the Solomani Rim, to me, under the original CT timeline up to 1115, 
was boring.  Not much conflict going on.  It, and the Core Worlds, appeared to 
me to be in heavy decline as a culture.  The Rebellion turned the Solomani 
Confederation from a laughable excuse of a pretender to power into a *real* 
political power on the move, and scraped the rust off the Core Worlds.  
IMNSFBHO, the Rebellion *proves* that the goverment Imperium had decayed to 
the point where drastic change was needed before the entire thing rotted away.

> Now, someone WAS working on a Traveller-style character creation system for
> GT. I think this would be a fun thing, and would enjoy seeing it
> completed..but I won't use it. I like having the control, the choice, and
> ever since the first time I built a Champions character, I have preferred
> point-building to random creation.

'Pick & choose' chargen is something that I've not played much with.  A random generation works pretty good for us, with some adjustments for sanity.  For example, if one of my players blew a survival roll, I didn't make them reroll.  We sat down and talked it over a bit to work it into the character's background.  Two of my current players' characters were medically discharged from their services with prosthetic appliances replacing some body parts.  We see random generation as the *beginning* of chargen, not the *end*.  And we get just as playable characters, IMNSFBHO, as a build your own character.

YMMV.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 00:48:54 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: re: Nits

On 10/02/98 at 11:55 AM,  Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> said:

>I had the impression that it was a 50-50 split between MT and TNE (I
>prefer MT)....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>CT here... <g>...though I do nick some ideas from MT & TNE.

>I'll bet "Homebrew" to some varying degree is the real system of
>choice on the TML.

Aye! ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:00:55 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

>If it turns out like the beta materials suggest, it will be an absolute must
>for all Traveller products.  There is at least one paragraph for every
>system in the Spinward Marches.  Its great stuff.  And if you don't want to
>play in the Spinward Marches, just use the system descriptions for
>worlds whereever you like.

Based on my experience with GURPS, if you think you might want it in the
future,get it as soon as you can afford to.  You might not get a second
chance at it.  I really like GURPS sourcebooks, not to sold on the rules,
but really like the sourcebooks.  I'm about ready to give up and just start
getting every one I find that I don't have :^(

What can I say, they're top rate.  In the last couple years the only RPG
book I've found that was better than the GURPS stuff I got in the same time
frame was "Delta Green" which is sort of a X-Files supplement for Call of
Cthuhlu.  If you guessed I wasn't overly impressed with T4 you're correct.

In answer to the original question of if the material is worth getting when
you're playing in a different Traveller setting.  I HATED the TNE setting,
but I've got everything they did, because for the most part it was very
well done, and it was a source of ideas.

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 23:24:47 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: GT: heavy cargo tender

>
>Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:18:09 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: GT: heavy cargo tender
>
>Occurred to me that the 'jump tender' theory might be useful for merchant
ships
>as well as warship.  This uses a couple of extra modules -- specifically the
>separate power plants which I previously posted, and a few described in the
>text.  Comments?  Yah, it's a huge ship, but there's cargo ships on earth
with
>comparable displacement, so I can't say it's _that_ horribly large.  On the
>plus side, it appears that in G:Traveller it may actually be possible to make
>money as a merchant ;)
>
>

In the real world, these are called LASH (lighter-aboard-ship), BARCAT, or
SEABEE (brand names) freighters.  Barges or sections of barges are lifted
aboard the ship fully loaded, carried to their destination, and dropped off
to be towed into port by tugs.  Not only does this reduce port time as you
suggest, but it also allows deep draft ships to unload in the roadstead
while their cargo is pushed inland on rivers to unload wherever needed.
The main problem is utilization:  most destinations don't have enough
return tradegoods to keep the barges and lighters full, so many of them
come back empty.

I propose that, since TNE/RCEG (p. 129) already defines "lighters" as
non-starships 100 dtons or greater, the term "LASH freighter" refer to
cargo vessels that carry streamlined riders (for low tech/D-E starport
worlds), while "freight tender" or "cargo tender" refers to the modular
version above with large, unpowered barges, and "container ship" refers to
specialized freighters that carry general cargo internally in standard
containers.


One design caveat:  dton for dton, SDB's are much heavier than cargo
lighters or barges, yet external grapples are rated based on the weight
(mass) they can hold.  I had a hard time fitting SDB's to a LASH freighter;
I finally had to carry 400 dton SDB's one-for-one in place of 800 dton
(streamlined) lighters.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:54:40 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: GT: Behind the Claw

Excerpts and cover art for BtC are up on SJGames website, at:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/Spinward/

The book is at the printer and due out in November, according to their
upcoming releases page:

http://www.sjgames.com/newproducts/

<shameless plug>
I ordered my copy of GT directly from SJGames, and received it in two days
by express mail.  Cost was cover price plus $3 shipping, but as my FLGS
still doesn't have it, I don't mind.  The online catalog is at:

http://www.sjgames.com/catalog/

SJGames will be the first to tell you that you should support your FLGS if
at all possible - it's what keeps the industry going.  If you don't have a
local store, or they aren't working out [mine has apparently suffered a
wholly uncharacteristic debilitating brain aneurism], this is the place to go.
</shameless plug>  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:17:21 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Hello,
>From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>Subject: re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
...
>For dampers, I have assumed that they have an area of effect - that the
>damper node is ten meters or more in diameter (and that a single hit by a 
>damping node renders a nuke warhead undetonateable.) This makes a big
>difference trying to hit a small high-acceleration-evasion target like a 
>missile, since you no longer need to hit it dead on. Repulsor nodes might 
>be even bigger - kilometers across - which would let them engage missiles
>at very long ranges (several hexes out), with enough time to push a
limited-fuel
>missile away from intercept, or hold an unlimited-fuel missile still enough 
>to pick it off with a laser at long range. I'm not sure it works well,
>though.

  I'm surprised that no one has suggested the obvious - using the repulsor
as an anti-missile system with a kinetic kill mechanism. While they do soak
up EP's in HG (unlike sandcasters) they aren't using enough to credibly do
more than deflect contact missiles from impact, which is insufficient to
keep them in current material, I gather.

  If you use your 50 or 100 ton and 1250 or 2500 MW to sweep bucket loads of
BB's through attacking missiles then the arguments that make KKM's attractive
(assuming that they can impact) work against the missiles, which unquestionably
do not have their own PD lasers and do have clear limitations on their own
ability to maneuver freely (depending on when in their run that they are
engaged).

  FWIW, "Exonidas Starport" (?) in Dragon #59 used repulsor grids to assist
vessels in landing - similar to the docking assist idea.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:17:25 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....
...
>>  That talent didn't specifically exist under The One True System
>(i.e., CT)
>>
>>  Heretic.
>
>I saw this tallent long before MT an a magizine trying to identify the
>Special catigory

  Possibly JTAS #5? Still non-canon. Heretic. :>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:17:23 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...

>From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
>Subject: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
>
>Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. Their
>first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be the work of the
>Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was nobody -
>not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.
>
>If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating on
>the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle
>(sex unknown).

  Actually, Pratchett wrote an SF novel ("Strata", IIRC) where the adventurers
discovered an artificial world Ringworld style, except that it was a glass
sphere containing a flat earth with the ocean surrounding Eurasia/Africa pouring
off the edges - the plumbing was pretty extensive. For the most part it was
presented as serious SF, and it reads well with enough Pratchett-esque touches
to amuse Discworld fans.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 02:35:10 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GT: Behind the Claw

On 10/03/98 at 12:54 AM,  Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> said:

>I ordered my copy of GT directly from SJGames, and received it in two
>days by express mail.  Cost was cover price plus $3 shipping, but as
>my FLGS still doesn't have it, I don't mind. 

Let me second Christopher's comment.  I couldn't get GT locally, so
I ordered it online direct from SJG Monday night, and it was waiting
on my doorstep when I got home from work Thursday evening.  Amazing!

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:55:09 -0400
From: "Chauncey Smith" <csmith@ICDC.com>
Subject: Re: fighters

Ok.. ok.. this is the deal... I have on the HIWG cd rom the Ahl stats for
the BR.  Any way the stats was in a news group post that 7 auroua class
clippers. and the clippers won.. the point that I find interesting is the
fighters wheren't used.
I wonder what the result would be if they used the fighters.


- ----------
> From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: fighters
> Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 5:02 AM
> 
> While fighters may not be good against 'real warships', it was pointed
out
> that they can do a number on non-military ships, and probably against
> military supply ships as well.
> 
> A commerce raider would draw the escort vessel out, while it's previously
> detached fighters come in on another vector to nail the merchants.
> 
> To use a Space Opera example, in "Honor Harrington: On Basilisk Station",
> Commander Harrington dispatches two of her pinnaces (each the size of a
> 'pre-space' jumbo jet) to deal with enforcing customs at the transfer
> point.  The pinnaces were no match for a warship, but it's laser was more
> than enough to keep merchies in line.
> 
>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
> "Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising
for 
> burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
>                  http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 10:34:40 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

Has anyone else noticed that membership of the Traveller's Aid Society now costs
1 million credits *PER YEAR*.

Rather a lot of money for 120,000 cr worth of High Passage tickets, subsidised
(but not first class) accommodation on some worlds, and access to the TNS/

A major error? I hope so!

Surely it should be the "canon" 1 MCr to try for membership, nonrefundable, and
a roll of some sort to gain entry or be blackballed?

Why would anyone pay 1 MCr per year?

Even if they did two jumps per month, it'd only be 240,000 Cr per year for High
Passage, and even an Archduke can get by on 50,000 a month ... 600,000 per year
... for living expenses. And that leaves 260,000 for "mad money".

So why would anyone pay 1 MCr for 120,000 Cr worth of tickets? Or is it an
error?

Loren?

Phil

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:59:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

In mail you write:

> On 10/02/98 at 12:05 AM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:
>
>>I almost forgot the most important part: Try not to be attacked by
>>more than one at once. In that case, try to hurt the first one real
>>bad real fast, because if they both get their jaws on you, you are
>>SOL.
>
> Packs are bad, real bad.  One dog is a dog, two or more dogs with
> out a human controlling them is a pack.  Dogs in an uncontrolled
> pack are NOT "man's best friend" they are one of our deadliest
> enemies.  Unlike most predators dog packs aren't afraid of us.  I
> *don't* like packs!  Use a rifle on an uncontrolled pack.
>
> Ob Trav:  One Vargr is fine, but don't let 'em congregate!  They are
> dangerous in packs. ;->

If I had to face a pack, I'd want to *be* part of another pack. A
friend had a wolf they'd rescued from some jerks who had half-killed
her with mistreatment. The family, and a few selected friends like me
were her "pack". 

Some idiots jumped his wife while she was walking Tasha. His wife only
had to deal with the ones Tasha didn't go after. And while the cops
didn't know that she was a wolf, they didn't have any problem with a
"dog" that attacked to defend her owner.

ObTrav: Humans are likely to *still* have dog partners ("working dogs")
imn the Imperium. And I wouldn't be too surprised to see *some* Vargr
adopt the practice. It'd be no stranger than humans working with
chimps. And the Vargr seem to be rather closer to their instincts than
most humans. So they and the dogs would understand each other better. 

Taking one a group of Vargr partnered with well-trained dogs with the
group considering itself a "pack" could be a nightmare. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:23:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller: My $.02

In mail you write:

> dberry@hooked.net wrote:
>
>> At 03:27 PM 9/29/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>     Never mind the fact that they have a wounderful supliment called 
>>> of all things "GURPS: Psionics".
>>
>> Yes, but..
>>
>> I've collect GURPS books for years, so I already have all the books
>> mentioned, along with a few (dozen) others.  Traveller/Illuminati
>> anyone?

> Damn, these Templars are just like roachs. Kill one ane a dozon more
> appear.

"Hail Hydra!
 Immortal Hydra!
 Cut off a head and two more will take its place!"

(I'm sure the old Marvel comics readers get the reference :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:04:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

In mail you write:

> For dampers, I have assumed that they have an area of effect - that the
> damper node is ten meters or more in diameter (and that a single hit by a 
> damping node renders a nuke warhead undetonateable.) This makes a big
> difference trying to hit a small high-acceleration-evasion target like a 
> missile, since you no longer need to hit it dead on.

And even a moderate increase in decay rate will cause the fissionables
to heat badly. And *small* temp changes cause major changes in
dimension in plutonium. Uranium isn't quite as bad, but bad enough.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:01:55 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Taking one a group of Vargr partnered with well-trained dogs with the
> group considering itself a "pack" could be a nightmare.

You're nasty to PCs aren't you.  One Vargr with a well-trained pack
would be bad enough.

To push it one step further . . .

A clairvoyant and telepathic Vargr with a pack or well-trained dogs.

Muwahaha  ;-)

There is a great novel with telepathic wolves.
Vernor Vinge, Fire on the Deep, IIRC.  The wolves are only intelligent in
packs of 3-6, and they all see through each others eyes.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:07:19 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Re Vargr Specialty Products

William F. Hostman wrote:

> Clothing: Not just the tail slot, but a much wider array (in less depth) of
> patterns, cuts, and materials. Humans COULD wear most vargr clothing with
> the exception of footwear... altho most wouldn't. The running gag in my
> campaigns is the Vasrgr in Plaid Shorts and an Aloha shirt, in contrasting
> scemes.

Ummm.  I need to check if I'm a hairless Vargr.  I have more than 20 Hawaii
shirts and wear them all the time.  Only a few pairs of the plaid shorts
though.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 08:46:38 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 

> If I had to face a pack, I'd want to *be* part of another pack. A
> friend had a wolf they'd rescued from some jerks who had half-killed
> her with mistreatment. The family, and a few selected friends like me
> were her "pack".
> 
> Some idiots jumped his wife while she was walking Tasha. His wife only
> had to deal with the ones Tasha didn't go after. And while the cops
> didn't know that she was a wolf, they didn't have any problem with a
> "dog" that attacked to defend her owner.

Ye ghods!! Idiots is right! WHO in their right minds would mess with someone
walking a wolf? It's not like they look like anything _but_ a wolf or a really
big dog.

The only problem with wolves is you gotta make sure they remember you're
alpha, and _they're_ omega all the time...dogs don't challenge nearly as
often, and intra-pack hierarchy is far less important. Your friends don't want
to add a new friend to the pack, and have Tasha decide she's _tired_ of being
on the bottom, that's a spot for the newbie...sadly we get the idiots around
here who think it'd be cool to have a wolf for a pet without realizing in the
slightest what they're getting into.

Of course, _most_ of these idiots shouldn't be allowed to own hamsters, much
less a dog...

obTrav...how _do_ Vargr handle pack relations, particularly when the pack
includes humans who often just 'don't get it' about who is who?

Biting, fighting, slapping, dozens contests?

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #878
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Saturday, October 3 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 879



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller's Aid Society
GURPS Traveller
Re GT
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: "It Isn't Traveller"
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...
Re: GURPS Traveller
GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: Missile defense
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
GURPS Traveller| Templates, Packages, and Tasks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:06:56 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

Phillip McGregor wrote:
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that membership of the Traveller's Aid Society now costs
> 1 million credits *PER YEAR*.

Yeah, I noticed that, too...
 
> Rather a lot of money for 120,000 cr worth of High Passage tickets, subsidised
> (but not first class) accommodation on some worlds, and access to the TNS/

> Why would anyone pay 1 MCr per year?

Because the GOS (Good Ol' Sophont) network that is club membership...for their
annual fees, many exclusive country clubs are worth little in what the member
recieves from the _club_, but what they get from access to other club members
as peers may be much more valuable.

But, of course the rules don't say that...so other advantages (good mods on
finding high value cargoes, _carrying_ those high passengers, leads to other
ventures, insider trading info, etc) should be incorporated if the 1Mcr/year
is to stand...then it would be worth it.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 19:21:00 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: GURPS Traveller

Once again a newbee GURPS question.

The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately
90 points.

How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
retiring.

Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
a template and some other skills.

Could a character purchase two templates and use the best stats from 
each and the skills and quirks that best fit to make a character that
has had a career change.

TIA



Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:24:36 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re GT

Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com> queries dusty thusly:
>Please elaborate...  It seems to me that there're two parts: game system
>and mythos (and mythos support).  If  both are acceptable, you have a good
>match.  If one or the other isn't, you have, maybe, an adequate match.  If
>neither are, you have junk.
>
>the essence of Traveller, to me, is in the mythos.  We played Runes in
>Space (An amalgam of Other Suns, Runequest, and CT, set in 1107 in the
>Spinward Marches) and that, to our group, was Traveller.  The rules worked
>(OK - they were more detailed than CT, but we accepted that), and the
>mythos was great!

to wich I couldn't help but interject the following:
I agree that Traveller has always been both mythos and Rules, and rules
being the lesser element. However, like dusty, GT, while excellent is "Trav
through the GRUPS lens". Here's why:

1) major change to TAS: now yearly fee MCr1, and is a rip off at expected
benefit of 13*Cr8000, plus a little bit, and only exists at class A ports!
Bull****!
2) English Imperial Measurements, not metric. Some say just a triviality....
3) different emphasis of character capabilities.
4) Converting Psionics for maximal effect capability (Esp from MT) is
frightfully expensive...(MT: Psi 15 with Telepathy can get into the 1 E6
range, or worse, in order to maintain full capabilities). So, the system
cannot support certain types of character as having the same level of power.
5) inconsistant use of TWO DIFFERENT TL SCALES merely emphasizes the "Not
Traveller" aspects.
6) Not a background generation system.... a point generation system known
for the most tightly pointmongering rules lawyers around anywhere.
7) No starting play area defined (Yes, there is a SS map, but NO DATA
LISTING!!!). Even CT (The Traveller Book, Deluxe Traveller) had starting
areas with UPP's.

While I am aware that "Evil Stevie" (a fond car wars reference to SJ, for
the uninitiated) is known for being a Traveller fan, he and Loren have
created a traveller variant designed to appeal to the GURPS players, who,
by and far, tend far more to rules-laywering, petulance, and player abuse
of the rules mechanics. Not that I dislike the GT supplement... it is well
written (even if it does need a lot of erratta).


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:34:45 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

In a message dated 10/2/98 4:05:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:

<< >My personal take (FWIW) is that for me and mine, the best Trav system was
 >MT...w/ the caveat that the idea behind MT was the best (that is, to update
 >and streamline CY).  I feel that looking at it from 10 years later, with all
 >the errata in place (the major killer to the MT system)  and the abandonment
 >of the Rebellion/Virus plotline (although the Rebellion is salvageable IMO)
>>

And this is where the problem is ... I don't think you could get ten people
from
this list to all agree on the same version of the Traveller game system as
being
the best. I don't think there would even be a clear majority.\


I did not mean to state the above as a general assessment...thats merely the
final decision that my group made after having played all 4 versions w/ me.
(Actually, we all enjoyed the TNE system, but my original players being
destructive personalities, always bogged things down in combat)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:47:27 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>Once again a newbee GURPS question.
>
>The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately
>90 points.
>
>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>retiring.

Interesting enough question for me to break out the basic book, and refresh
my memory.  It looks like the 90pts is just the sort of character that you
are talking about.

>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
>a template and some other skills.

Well, the point table on pg. 11 of the basic book says that a 200pt
character is "Truly Outstanding".  75pt "Experienced", 100pt "Hero
Material", a average person is only 25pts.

>Dom

Well, I'm off to take care of some business, and stop by my FLGS.  They had
BETTER have G:T in or I'll be seriously pissed, and giving the manager HELL!

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:59:01 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

Steven Hudson wrote:

>>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....
>...
>>>  That talent didn't specifically exist under The One True System
>>(i.e., CT)
>>>
>>>  Heretic.
>>
>>I saw this tallent long before MT an a magizine trying to identify the

>>Special catigory
>
>  Possibly JTAS #5? Still non-canon. Heretic. :>

I said I had seen it, I did not say I allowed it IMTU.  actually I have
allowed ONE psionic character in my game and after he unbalanced the
game too badly I would not allow any more.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:26:25 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

In a message dated 10/2/98 20:14:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
worj@topgun.cinecom.com writes:

<< Do you dislike the game system itself - the mechanics of play, the task
 resolution (OK - skill usage; it works out to basically the same thing),
 etc.?  >>

I personally don't like the system...the one thing I did like about the CT
system was it's simplicity (i.e. its skill usage and the lack of a lot of die-
rolling).  By the same token, I did not like the lack of fine control over
difficulties...which MT fixed by including difficulty levels (This is the
reason my group uses MT)

Having read the G: T book thru now (and finding that the binding is very
bad...already starting to see pages begin to detach after 1 day; please note I
try to preserve my Trav stuff for collectability, so I am NOT roughousing this
book!) what there is of the background is pure Traveller...the library data
and some of the sidebars.  But the GURPS system requires enough changes to
various things that take away the Traveller flavor (and please note that these
are my PERSONAL feelings;  this dosen't relate to anyone elses opinions).

A few people have said things to the tune of " It's just make-believe...so
just make it up!"  To me this is a cop-out I guess...if I was just going to be
arbitrary like that, I don't need any game system at all...just make it up
(but would YOU want to do TCS with me???  :-)

The main problem we had w/ TNE an T4 was the complexity of the systems...esp
the design systems.  I am a gearhead-wannabe;  I got as far as HS Geometry
(and barely that).  I loved the amount of detail and realism that FF&S (both
V's) put into the system...but it was far too much detailing for use in an
RPG.  I loved the CT "Calculator and Notebook Paper" system for ship design
(which is largely the basis for MT designs, with some extras added).  I used
to be able to turn out a HG design in 10 min (20 with no calculator).  Now I
have to have my computer and Excel to design one (and never mind designing the
weapons to go in it)  Can you say 3-4 hours, anyone?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:31:46 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller"

In a message dated 10/2/98 20:47:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ashock@gte.net
writes:

<<  It doesn't model the Traveller character creation
 rules...and for that, I am thankful. It is after all GURPS Traveller.  >>

This statement is the whole basis of my dislike...It IS GURPS Traveller...
it's not Traveller (in whatever setting.)  Character gen is not the whole
issue, it's just one of the many things that had to be changed to make
Traveller into GURPS.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:35:42 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...

>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:17:23 -0700
>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
>Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...
>
>>From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
>>Subject: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
>>
>>Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. Their
>>first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be the work of
the
>>Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was
nobody -
>>not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.
>>
>>If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating
on
>>the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant
turtle
>>(sex unknown).
>
>  Actually, Pratchett wrote an SF novel ("Strata", IIRC) where the
adventurers
>discovered an artificial world Ringworld style, except that it was a glass
>sphere containing a flat earth with the ocean surrounding Eurasia/Africa
pouring
>off the edges - the plumbing was pretty extensive. For the most part it was
>presented as serious SF, and it reads well with enough Pratchett-esque
touches
>to amuse Discworld fans.
>
>        Steven Hudson
>
I know - all in all not a bad book with a number of the fantasy staples
given the sci-fi treatment.

Paul (who does have all the Pratchett books ;)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 17:08:00 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Dom wrote:

> Once again a newbee GURPS question.
>
> The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately
> 90 points.

And normal player characters should be 100 pts.

> How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
> assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
> retiring.

Well, GURPS would say, they're all the same.  There is an Age disadvantage

that gives you 3 points/year over age 50.  And you can have a maximum of
40 points from disadvantages.

Its not a perfect fit for the Traveller-career-chargen feel.
You'll need some house rules for that.


> Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
> a template and some other skills.

Oh yeah.  Will destroy any game balance.

> Could a character purchase two templates and use the best stats from
> each and the skills and quirks that best fit to make a character that
> has had a career change.

Dom, from what you're saying, I think you need to abandon the
templates all together for PCs.  There is no requirement to use them.
Mixing templates will be a nightmare.

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 16:34:41 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

On 10/03/98 at 07:21 PM,  Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com> said:

>Once again a newbee GURPS question.

>The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately 90
>points.

Yes, and I don't like that.

>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>retiring.

About 90. ;-<

>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to
>purchase a template and some other skills.

Yes, for GURPS, way too much.  IMO, PC class characters should be
somewhere between 100 and 130 points.  Otherwise you get starting
characters that are too powerful.

>Could a character purchase two templates and use the best stats from 
>each and the skills and quirks that best fit to make a character that
>has had a career change.

Yes, certainly.  If the GM allows it you can do *anything* you want,
that's an important part of GURPS (and any other rpg system, afaic).

What I'd like to have are a different kind of template for
Traveller. Something like...

 Eighteen Year Old:  40 pts, no more than 10 in skills, nor more
                     than 20 in disadvantages
  
 College Student:  (4 years), 12 pts total -- 8 pts in degree
                   specific skills required (pick a professional
                   package)
  
 Service Basic Training:  (1 year), 6 pts in required skills/stats
  
 Career Specific Tours:  (4 yr/each), 8 pts distributed among
                          required and optional skills/stats/ads,
                          aimed at fullfilling requirements for one
                          or more porfessional package

And profession packages with min levels in required (and
recommended) skills/stats to be "certified" in various professions.
Like...
    
 Ship Engineer:  Engineering (Spaceship), Power systems (Fusion),
                 Gravitics, Mechanics, Electronics, Computer
                    
 Ship Pilot: Pilot (ship boat), Pilot (space ship), Pilot (CG)
    
 Astrogator:  Astrogation (real space), Astrogation (jump space),
              Sensor Ops, Computer
                 
 Sensor Operator:   Sensor Ops, Communication, Computer     
    
 Gunner:    Gunnery (specialization), Sensor Ops
    
 Steward:   Savior Fair, Cooking, Admin 
 
 Merchant:  Trade, Broker, Bargain, Admin
 
 Navy Officer:  Leadership, Ship Tactics, Admin, Gun Cbt (pistol)
 
 Navy Enlisted: Carousing, Streetwise, Gun Cbt (rifle)
 
 etc, etc
 
As you can see, I'm including many fewer skills in each of the
template/packages because the player would be building the character
from several of them.  You'll notice I didn't put in required levels
for stats or skills, because frankly I don't know what they should
be...yet.  ;-> There would also be some optional suggested skills,
ads and disads listed for each template and professional package.

Anyway, this kind of thing feels more Traveller-isk to me, *and*
maintains the point-based system that GURPS prefers.  Personally,
I'd like to include some optional randomization to this, but not on
the first iteration.  ;)

A 100 pt character (not including disads), would be between 44 and
48 years old.  Younger PCs would have lower point totals and older
ones would have higher ones (less aging penalties).  The characters
in a group wouldn't be the perfectly balanced ones that GURPS
prefers, but that kind of balance is NOT a Traveller trait, and
should NOT be required..IMO.
                          
So, am I barking up the wrong tree with this, stuff?  Should I
quietly go away, or do you folks think I should continue tinkering
with this idea?

Eris,
    the heretic <-- Steven, that's NOT an insult, it's a compliment!
    
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:08:46 -0400
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

Eris the heretic wrote:

(a snipped skills/points/age proposal)

> 
> So, am I barking up the wrong tree with this, stuff?  Should I
> quietly go away, or do you folks think I should continue tinkering
> with this idea?
> 

I really like your ideas.  Thanks for sharing.  As soon as I'm finished
reading G:T, I plan on creating a character generation system akin to
Merc/High Guard for use with the G:T rules.  IMHO the Trav character
generation process gives a good amount of backstory to the pc that is
otherwise lost.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:01:01 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 10/03/98 at 07:21 PM,  Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com> said:
>
> >Once again a newbee GURPS question.
>
> >The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately 90
> >points.
>
> Yes, and I don't like that.
>
> >How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
> >assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
> >retiring.
>
> About 90. ;-<
>
> >Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to
> >purchase a template and some other skills.
>
> Yes, for GURPS, way too much.  IMO, PC class characters should be
> somewhere between 100 and 130 points.  Otherwise you get starting
> characters that are too powerful.

If you are a GM, you might want to concider allowing sharing points.  This
is where some noble player volunteers to sacrafice some of his points so
that some other member of the party can get a properly experienced
character.  For example: In a crew of say five people, each with 100
points each, four of them could relegate themselves to cadets reducing
their points to 10, while the last one gets the extra 40 points and is the
much more experience Captain/Seargent/etc.  I don't think I'd allow more
than 40 points to be used that way (the same as the disadvantage limit).

Along a similar vein, the ship could be bought the same way, except the
better portion of the points would belong to the bank.  These points could
be bought off with cash over time, or possibly directly for points earned
in the service of the bank. I have absolutely NO idea how many points a
ship is worth, but I imagine its a lot.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:46:09
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Missile defense

>From: "Robert O'Connor" <Robocon@ozemail.com.au>
>Subject: Re : repulsors
>
>Good point defence with beam weapons is probably easier to reconcile
>with usual Traveller tech levels.
>
>I agree that nuclear dampers are a little redundant in TNE/T4 (max range
>50000km?) with lasers having a range of potentially 10X that. Perhaps
>the firing solution for a damper doesn't need to be so precise (a la
>Bruce Mac) ; and it's the last hope when your point defence fails...

This is true, although 50 kkm is 1/6 of a light second, which gives a
missile that can pull 6 lateral gees a zone of probability of about 20 meters.

Point defense lasers also tend to be built with shorter ranges than
anti-ship lasers, because you cant tend to hit missiles at a total light
lag of over 1/2 a second (ie 150 000 km).

Nuke dampers also arent worried by the amount of armour a missile carries,
and it's a good idea to have some heavily armoured missiles as part of your
package.

Under FFS, you can also make dampers longer ranged by building them bigger.

In my opinion, good point defense is a package of big lasers, small
rapid-fire lasers, 'dash' missiles and sandcasters. A layered package can
deal with more threats, and more types of threats, than a single method.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:03:03 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

From:           	"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Date sent:      	Sat, 03 Oct 98 16:34:41 -0500

>Anyway, this kind of thing feels more Traveller-isk to me, *and*
>maintains the point-based system that GURPS prefers.  Personally,
>I'd like to include some optional randomization to this, but not on
>the first iteration.  ;)

>So, am I barking up the wrong tree with this, stuff?  Should I
>quietly go away, or do you folks think I should continue tinkering
>with this idea?

Keep tinkering, please. One of the 'defining' characteristics of Traveller for me is 
that all characters are not created equal (along with one week per jump, speed 
of commo limited to speed of Travel etc.) I don't think Traveller is rules or 
background. For me Traveller is a set of basic assumption about the game 
universe which give a distinct "feel".

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Evil Overlord hint No 45
 Female warriors should be issued with armour, leather thong
 bikinis should be reserved for full dress uniform only.
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 15:30:26 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote

> >Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote

> >Did anyone ever wonder why no Zhodhani (or anyone else) with the
> >Special Psionic power of Machine Empathy ever scanned an Imperial
> >transponder & discovered that the chips were alive?  Or that if they 
> >did make said scan they never said or did anything about it?
> 
>   That talent didn't specifically exist under The One True System 
> (i.e., CT)

>   Heretic.

But the specific depiction of the Deyo transponder appeared in Survial
Margin (a TNE product although it is very usefull for MT too and in the
TNE Rulebook.  Therefore it is TNE and not CT psionic powers that are at
issue.

Infidel.

- -- 
Peter Newman		pnewman@alaska.net
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Member in Good Standing of The Society to Turn Wesley Crusher Into 
a Small Styrofoam Dodecahedron

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 15:46:09 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

> From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>

> Kurt Feltenberger wrote:

> > >Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. 
> > >If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, 
> > >rotating on the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the 
> > >back of a giant turtle(
> > >After all given that the last GURPS product released before GURPS 
> > >Traveller was GURPS Discworld this combination is logical 

> You could always go with a "Bunnies & Burrows"/Vargr crossover....  
> Yum!

How about a GURPS Bunnies & Burrows crossover set in the K'Kree enclaves
across the lesser rift bordering on Vargr space.  The bunny PC'c are the
descendants of (uplifted by the Ancients) rabbits left in the area by
the Ancients (which might serve to explain rabbit religion).  They have
existed on their home planet for hundreds of millenia.  Then one day a
few thousand years ago the carnivorous Vargr showed up & the bunnies
world was transformed into a nightmare.  But now the bunnies saviors,
the K'Kree, are on the offensive & will take the planet away from the
Vargr.  Can the TL Rabbit (similar to TL 0) bunnies help the K'Kree
drive out the Vargr & restore a vegetarian planet....

- -- 
Peter Newman		pnewman@alaska.net
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Member in Good Standing of The Society to Turn Wesley Crusher Into 
a Small Styrofoam Dodecahedron

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 18:56:30 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller| Templates, Packages, and Tasks

On 10/03/98 at 06:08 PM,  John Macek <macek@erols.com> said:

>(a snipped skills/points/age proposal)

>> So, am I barking up the wrong tree with this, stuff?  Should I
>> quietly go away, or do you folks think I should continue tinkering
>> with this idea?

>I really like your ideas.  Thanks for sharing.  

You're welcome.

>As soon as I'm finished reading G:T, I plan on creating a character
>generation system akin to Merc/High Guard for use with the G:T
>rules.

My idea is a little different from a true CT advanced chargen like
Merc/HG.  I guess it's closer to TNE.  <g> I'd really like to see
your system when you have it ready for viewing.

>IMHO the Trav character generation process gives a good amount of
>backstory to the pc that is otherwise lost.

Yes, I agree.  I'm a bit of a design-in-play and a design-at-start
person.  DIP people like to take time to "get to know" the character
as he develops.  DAS people want the character to be complete and
well understood commodity when the game begins. I want both. ;->

The career process has always been a good compromise (for me) in
that it allows me to "develop" a lot of the character's lifestory
before he gets into the game and "get a feel" for his personality,
likes, dislikes, and style.  But when the game begins, he's still
well understood and although complete, up to that point, able to
continue developing and growing.

With GURPS, and other point systems, where the character is
"pointed" out in excruciating detail I just don't get the same
*feel* for him.  It seems, for me, that with this kind of character
the *character* is somehow lost in the numbers.  He still *feels*
like a stranger to me.

There's nothing *wrong* with the GURPS style chargen, it's just not
my cup of tea.  I know I'm happier with either a CT/MT/TNE style
system, and I doubt I'm alone in this. ;->

As for the lack of a task system in GURPS...no, it doesn't really
have a task system, but it's easy to add one.  For example...

Roll <= on 3d6 to succeed:

 Asset+6     Easy
 Asset+4     Routine
 Asset+2     Moderate
 Asset       Difficult
 Asset-2     Formidable
 Asset-4     Staggering
 Asset-6     Hopeless

Jo's Climbing skill is competent, but not outstanding (12).  

She is using a belaying line to make a Routine climb up a cliff and
rolls against 12+4=16 (98%) almost certainly succeeding.

Now she reaches a Difficult part and has to roll against 12 (74%).

Suddenly...and unexpectedly...her belay line snaps and she has a
Staggering task to not fall and has to roll against 12-4=8 (26%).  

She's lucky and barely succeeds hanging on by her fingertips, but
now without the belaying line climbing the wall is of Moderate
difficulty (+2) and because she is shaken (-2) she'll have a
Difficult time and will roll against 12 (74%) to finish the climb.

You know this looks pretty good!  ;-> 

We can even port tasks over from MT/TNE/T4/2300 with this system.
Might need to rethink the task levels and the numbers that go with
them, but I think I've got a second good idea here!  ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #879
**********************************

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Traveller-digest      Saturday, October 3 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 880



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
GT starting points
Re: Re GT
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates, Packages, and Tasks
Weighing in on G:T
Re GURPS Trav CGen
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #879
Re: Re GT
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Using G: Trav (a survey)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 20:05:19 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

In a message dated 10/2/98 10:30:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hdhale@mindspring.com writes:

<< There were very few people
 who used MT. >>

I preferered mostly CT with the MT task resolution (Easy, Hard, Formidable,
etc.). Does this count as MT, CT, or home brew (I always called it MT)?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 20:08:18 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 

> > Taking one a group of Vargr partnered with well-trained dogs with the
> > group considering itself a "pack" could be a nightmare.
> 
> You're nasty to PCs aren't you.  One Vargr with a well-trained pack
> would be bad enough.
> 
> To push it one step further . . .
> 
> A clairvoyant and telepathic Vargr with a pack or well-trained dogs.
> 
> Muwahaha  ;-)
> 
> There is a great novel with telepathic wolves.
> Vernor Vinge, Fire on the Deep, IIRC.  The wolves are only intelligent in
> packs of 3-6, and they all see through each others eyes.

The Tines weren't telepathic.  They 'networked' with ultrasound.  Great 
concept for a player race, though...

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 19:08:36 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

On 10/03/98 at 06:01 PM,  Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com> said:

>If you are a GM, you might want to concider allowing sharing points. 
>This is where some noble player volunteers to sacrafice some of his
>points so that some other member of the party can get a properly
>experienced character.  For example: In a crew of say five people,
>each with 100 points each, four of them could relegate themselves to
>cadets reducing their points to 10, while the last one gets the extra
>40 points and is the much more experience Captain/Seargent/etc.  I
>don't think I'd allow more than 40 points to be used that way (the
>same as the disadvantage limit).

That's a good idea and works if the party is designing characters
together, or even in the same period of time.  However, I GM PBEM's
where the players don't know what each others character can or can't
do, where new people joing the group well into campaigns, and
sharing points won't really work.  It's the same with a lot of FTF
games too.

>Along a similar vein, the ship could be bought the same way, except
>the better portion of the points would belong to the bank.  These
>points could be bought off with cash over time, or possibly directly
>for points earned in the service of the bank. I have absolutely NO
>idea how many points a ship is worth, but I imagine its a lot.

I'd say so!  ;-> If you're going to "buy" ships with points, then I
agree that there should be sharing among the party, there will
probably *have* to be sharing among the party. ;->

Personally, I don't think merchant ships should be "bought" with
points at all.  You can get use of ships through Scout, Noble or
Scientist careers, but those are patron advantages.  Owning a ship,
as a Merchant, is more a matter of borrowing the money from
investors and creditors and should be an "in game" thread.  The most
I'd give the players is that you can buy off some percentage of the
price with points prior to game start, after that you pay off a
mortgage monthly with money, not points.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 20:16:19 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

In a message dated 10/3/98 4:19:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:

<< Taking one a group of Vargr partnered with well-trained dogs with the
 group considering itself a "pack" could be a nightmare. 
 
 --  >>

The ultimate K-9 cops or MP's! I would love to hire a couple of pairs of these
teams for any Mercenary unit I ran...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 20:19:48 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

In a message dated 10/3/98 12:12:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< Because the GOS (Good Ol' Sophont) network that is club membership...for
their
 annual fees, many exclusive country clubs are worth little in what the member
 recieves from the _club_, but what they get from access to other club members
 as peers may be much more valuable. >>

How else do the scruffy nerf-herding PC's get to meet the Princess and take
her charter in the Free Trader Rust Bucket....?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 19:18:44 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

On 10/04/98 at 12:03 PM,  "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> said:

>>Anyway, this kind of thing feels more Traveller-isk to me, *and*
>>maintains the point-based system that GURPS prefers.  Personally,
>>I'd like to include some optional randomization to this, but not on
>>the first iteration.  ;)

>>So, am I barking up the wrong tree with this, stuff?  Should I
>>quietly go away, or do you folks think I should continue tinkering
>>with this idea?

>Keep tinkering, please. 

Ok, I will. ;->

>One of the 'defining' characteristics of Traveller for me is that
>all characters are not created equal (along with one week per jump,
>speed of commo limited to speed of Travel etc.)

Yes, I'm not a fan of "party balance", at least not slavish
adherence to balance.  Sure the group should be similar in abilities
and powers, but there's no need for every character to be exactly
equal...that's not even realistic.  

Personally, I'm against giving points for disadvantages.  Require
the player to take 20 points of disads, let them take more if they
want, but don't give them points for it.  Heck, *you* don't get an
offsetting advantage for having bad eyes, losing an arm, or being
deathly afraid of spiders, neither should your character. ;->

>I don't think Traveller is rules or background.  For me Traveller
>is a set of basic assumption about the game universe which give a
>distinct "feel".

And one of the assumptions is that all characters are NOT created
equal.  ;-> I agree.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 20:17:41 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GT starting points

> Once again a newbee GURPS question.
> 
> The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately
> 90 points.
> 
> How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
> assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
> retiring.

The standard starting value in GURPS is 100 points. For a "four term"
character, I would go as high as 125 points.

Allen
 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 20:28:46 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re GT

In a message dated 10/3/98 12:38:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, aramis@gci.net
writes:

<< to wich I couldn't help but interject the following:
 I agree that Traveller has always been both mythos and Rules, and rules
 being the lesser element. However, like dusty, GT, while excellent is "Trav
 through the GRUPS lens". Here's why: >>

All true, BUT I still think it behooves all Trav players to buy the D--n
thing, so Steve doesn't decide to cancel the series because the interest isn't
there. As for it being intro to traveller for GURPS's players; isn't that a
GOOD thing? I would think that it would be easier to convince a GURPS player
who is familiar with the Traveller universe to try another game mechanics
system, than to try and entice someone who cut their teeth on fantasy, or
(shudder...) CCG's. I have NEVER played GURPS (not because I dislike the
system, but my various groups never played it), but ran out and bought the
book. I needed the Beowulf deckplans, and I wanted to save wear and tear on my
LBB's....

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 19:31:41 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

On 10/03/98 at 08:05 PM,  Sethkimmel@aol.com said:

>In a message dated 10/2/98 10:30:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>hdhale@mindspring.com writes:

><< There were very few people
> who used MT. >>

>I preferered mostly CT with the MT task resolution (Easy, Hard,
>Formidable, etc.). Does this count as MT, CT, or home brew (I always
>called it MT)?

CT, with DGP extentions. ;->

The MT task resolution was introduced by DGP long before MT came
out.  I fell in love with the concept when it first appeared in an
early (the first, I think, but I'm not going to dig out the magazine
tonight) Traveller's Digest. I, of course, had to modify it. ;->

What I didn't like about CT/DGP was the "roll higher" philosophy.
I've always prefered the roll low to succeed systems.  Wonder where
I got *that* from?  ;-> Anyway, that's why I like the style of the
TNE/T4 task systems.  I think a TNE task system where you +/- 4 for
each level above or below Difficult is near about perfect.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:27:51 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates, Packages, and Tasks

Just in case you want to look, I have converted some 2300AD stuff to Hero,
which in some ways is similar to Gurps.

A Hero skill roll is usually a number or less ( ex. 11 or less) on 3d6.
Here are the modifiers I have for 2300 Task statements


TASK CONVERSION

2300AD task statements can be converted to the appropriate skill rolls in
the Hero System. Use the following table to convert task difficulties to
skill modifiers.

2300AD Task Difficulty
 Skill Roll Modifier for Hero System

Easy
 +3

Moderate
 +1

Difficult
 -3

Formidable
 -5

Impossible
 -10


TV
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/redroach

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 20:46:12 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Weighing in on G:T

I just picked up G:T and G:Basic Rules and I have to say that upon leafing
through G:T I felt that I had gone back in time to before TNE.  This
"looked" like the Traveller I grew up with.  The artwork was better and
more reasonable than in either of the past two incarnations of Traveller,
things just looked "right, no more nonesensical artwork.

Reading through the book I was surprised at the amount of material it
contained.  Any other game company would have clipped you at least $30.00
or more, but this was less than $25.00!  The cost for the Basic rules and
G:T was less than $55.00, that is a deal in my book, considering the volume
of information in G: Basic.

I have to agree with the posts on character generation.  That was always
one of the most enjoyable parts of the game.  Now, I feel like I will be
competing with other players to build the best character.  I am interested
in seeing the mods that have been suggested.

I'd still like to see Traveller as a stand alone game, but for now, this is
certainly welcome.

Just my $.02

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:49:45 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re GURPS Trav CGen

Dom queries:
>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>retiring.
>
>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
>a template and some other skills.

GT specifies 100 point characters... the GURPS standard.

Keep in mind that gurps has a limit on points spent on skills: 2*age. so,
that said, keep in mind that most characters using the templates will be
pushing that. Also, keep in mind also the up to 45 points more from disads
and quirks. For reference, Lensmen start at around 500-1000 points, and
galactic patrolmen around 200-300, and are epic sci-fi.

>Could a character purchase two templates and use the best stats from
>each and the skills and quirks that best fit to make a character that
>has had a career change.

IMO, yes, especially if they overlap with each other. I'd count anything
that is available in both as counting for both. Requires some tweaking...
but doable.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:34:16 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....
...
>>   Heretic.
>
>But the specific depiction of the Deyo transponder appeared in Survial
>Margin (a TNE product although it is very usefull for MT too and in the
>TNE Rulebook.  Therefore it is TNE and not CT psionic powers that are at
>issue.
>
>Infidel.

  However, Signal GK was CT. Nyah!

  Or how about we just agree on disposing of Ensign Crusher and call it a day?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:34:14 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

>From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
>Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
...
>To push it one step further . . .
>
>A clairvoyant and telepathic Vargr with a pack or well-trained dogs.

  Or a Zho warrant officer (clairvoyant and telepathic) and a pool of
Zho warbots doing clearance work - house to house resistance against
fully supported Zho ground troops just became a poor proposition, not
even considering teleporters.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 01:33:27 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:58:30 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:06:56 -0700
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society
>
>Phillip McGregor wrote:
>> 
>> Has anyone else noticed that membership of the Traveller's Aid Society now costs
>> 1 million credits *PER YEAR*.
>
>Yeah, I noticed that, too...
> 
>> Rather a lot of money for 120,000 cr worth of High Passage tickets, subsidised
>> (but not first class) accommodation on some worlds, and access to the TNS/
>
>> Why would anyone pay 1 MCr per year?
>
>Because the GOS (Good Ol' Sophont) network that is club membership...for their
>annual fees, many exclusive country clubs are worth little in what the member
>recieves from the _club_, but what they get from access to other club members
>as peers may be much more valuable.

Possibly. If you're a multi-millionaire (or wannabe) already.

But if you're travelling around a lot, as Travellers tend to do, you can't
network worth a damn, so it is not as attractive as it might seem.

>But, of course the rules don't say that...so other advantages (good mods on
>finding high value cargoes, _carrying_ those high passengers, leads to other
>ventures, insider trading info, etc) should be incorporated if the 1Mcr/year
>is to stand...then it would be worth it.

How many Traveller characters with a bank loan paying off the Free Trader would
be better off paying the 1 MCr off their loan *right now* rather than paying 1
MCr for these sorts of dubious benefits. And what is their cash value to a Free
Trader, anyway? At 1 MCr a year?

It makes sense as a 1 MCr one off fee, at 1 MCr a year it is just silly.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 21:45:35 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT

At 05:26 PM 10/2/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>I have done some more considering on the matter of lasers and the
>modular system.  It was brought up on TML that Lasers in TNE and 
>T4 have a energy cap.  In those verions it was TL*50Mj.  
>In GURPS the weapons usualy have much higher discharge 
>energies than in Traveller.

I seem to have missed the thread where this discussion
originated, and I haven't sorted through the GURPS 
design sequence enough to evaluate designs yet,
but since I'm the guy who came up with the TL*50MJ
laser limit in the first place, it might help to
go over _why_ it was imposed in order to help you
evaluate your designs.

In Classic Traveller's High Guard and in MegaTraveller,
starship weaponry could be ranked in a rough heirarchy:
the most powerful were the spinal-mounted particle
beams(PAWs) and meson guns (MGs); next in line were the 
bay weapons: smaller PAWs and MGs, plasma and fusion 
guns, repulsors, missile bays, etc.; at the low end 
were turret and barbette weapons -- lasers, missiles, 
tiny PAWs, and sandcasters.

As you can see, lasers were small-fry. And since
the HG and MT design sequences used only plug-in
weapons, they stayed there.

However, in TNE, lasers could be custom designed.
On top of that, since plasma and fusion guns and
small particle beams had been made unfeasible for
starship weaponry, lasers were used as substitutes.

After FF&S (Traveller: The New Era's design system,
for those reading this on GURPSnet) came out, 
I'd been playing around with cruiser-sized PAW
and MG designs when I decided to try a 20,000 MJ
laser, since FF&S had no rule against it, and
realized that -- when all ship design and combat 
factors were taken into account -- big lasers were
the weapon of choice and logically, under FF&S design 
rules, capital ships would _not_ mount PAWs and MGs
as their primary weapon.

In terms of Traveller background, this was (yet another)
big break between TNE and the previous editions.
Of more immediate concern to GDW was the fact that
this made their starship combat games less interesting:
instead of commanders balancing the strengths and
weaknesses of four major weapons systems (lasers, missiles,
PAWs and MGs), combat would be reduced to laser/missile duels.

After some groping to find a fix that would:
A) keep lasers in the low- to medium-strength range
of starship weapons; 
B) not invalidate the lasers that had already been 
published; and
C) was _simple_,

I came up with the TL*50 MJ rule, which fit all
of the above criteria. It was never formally
adopted in TNE, but it became a widespread "house
rule" there. T4's FF&S2 was written by some of the
people I'd discussed those problems with, and the
rule was incorporated into that system.

The upshot of this history lesson is this:
What's the best way to mesh the assumptions of the
Traveller background with the facts of life 
according to GURPS design rules?

Where do GURPS weapons designs "stretch" Traveller's
notion of those weapons, but don't really change
anything important (in which case, go with the 
standard GURPS rules), and where does it stretch things
past the breaking point (in which case, some limit or
modification of the standard GURPS rules is appropriate).

And to help you decide this, play around. Go with extremes.
Do things you're not "supposed" to, but there's no
rule against it. Hack the system. And when you've
figured out where what you _can_ do doesn't square
with what you "should" do, either come up with your
own solution (using criteria A, B, and C above), or
make a post laying out what the problem is and let
the rest of the gearheads chew on it.  :)

[snip designs since I'm not yet able to evaluate them]

John H Bogan, Jr

jbogan@pipeline.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:09:14 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

In a message dated 10/3/98 17:16:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< I preferered mostly CT with the MT task resolution (Easy, Hard, Formidable,
 etc.). Does this count as MT, CT, or home brew (I always called it MT)?
 
  >>
It counts as whatever you want it too, silly!  ;-)  

Seriously, I do use the MT rules AS THEY WERE MEANT TO BE (i.e, after taking
into account the errata that has come about since the first printing), w/ a
lot of CT thrown in (mostly background...never have played the Rebellion w/ a
group, but don't believe the plotline has to be the dead-end GDW made it).  I
am trying to decide wether to transport my current group back to the Imperium
(they are currently in a sector I am detailing, non-Imperial; time is ca.
1116) or send them further into unknown territory (they still have some strong
ties to the Imperium)  If I do, they will re-appear there about the after the
news reaches the marches...around 1117.  I haven't decided yet...and knowing
my players, they will pick a 3rd option anyway!  :-)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 98 19:17:45 -0700
From: Tim Carroll <timc@paratwa.org>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #879

Some comments on the latest digest:

>The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately
>90 points.
>
>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>retiring.
>
>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
>a template and some other skills.
>
>Could a character purchase two templates and use the best stats from 
>each and the skills and quirks that best fit to make a character that
>has had a career change.

100 points is a good number.  The point is to take a template and use the 
extra points to flesh out the character.  You don't even need to 
religiously follow the templates -- some interesting characters come when 
you fall outside the typical skills for a profession.  Templates are a 
pretty new concept in GURPS -- mostly I like them, but only if you use 
them as frameworks and not as the entire character gen system.

200 points is definitely too high except for really high power campaigns. 
 That's where I generally run "pulps" style fiction.




>7) No starting play area defined (Yes, there is a SS map, but NO DATA
>LISTING!!!). Even CT (The Traveller Book, Deluxe Traveller) had starting

Well, there will be a 128 page book on the Spinward Marches.  Is that 
good enough for you?  Sure, they could have put a microscopic listing in 
the book, but would it have done you that much good?  Would it have been 
enough information to really run anything?

>While I am aware that "Evil Stevie" (a fond car wars reference to SJ, for
>the uninitiated) is known for being a Traveller fan, he and Loren have
>created a traveller variant designed to appeal to the GURPS players, who,
>by and far, tend far more to rules-laywering, petulance, and player abuse
>of the rules mechanics. Not that I dislike the GT supplement... it is well
>written (even if it does need a lot of erratta).
>
>
>William F. Hostman
><Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
>ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
>IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
>as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
>ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

Boy, I'm glad you don't have an opinion here or anything.  Sheesh.  I've 
been playing Traveller for 15+ years and GURPS for about 10 and there is 
not really that much of a difference between a hunk of random rolls and a 
point system.  Yes, point based systems occasionally lead to abuse -- but 
only if you are an incompetent gamemaster.  Frankly, every game I've run 
for a long time I've basically said two things to players:

1)  Don't try to rules-lawyer.  I'm sneakier than you are.  Plus you 
won't be invited back.
2)  Make interesting characters.

#2 is more indirect -- it is mostly asking the characters about 
individual skils, advantages and so on -- why they have them, how they 
react to different things  -- making the players think more about their 
character than mere numbers.

For example, if someone brought be a former Naval Officer with Status 0, 
I'd probably ask them about how they reacted to the general 
scorn/abuse/whatever from those with personal priviledge, who routinely 
gained promotions (and maybe didn't deserve it).

Basically, any point system is just a starting point.  Same with random 
die mechanics.  It is the framework, but it doesn't have a soul.  Whether 
you try to take some random die rolls and construct an interesting 
persona out of it, or design an interesting character from scratch, the 
end goal should be the same --  to breathe life into the characters and 
the setting.  And players who don't do that generally aren't invited to 
play in future games -- I'd rather play with interesting players.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:19:36 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re GT

In a message dated 10/3/98 17:39:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

<< All true, BUT I still think it behooves all Trav players to buy the D--n
 thing, so Steve doesn't decide to cancel the series because the interest
isn't
 there. As for it being intro to traveller for GURPS's players; isn't that a
 GOOD thing? I would think that it would be easier to convince a GURPS player
 who is familiar with the Traveller universe to try another game mechanics
 system, than to try and entice someone who cut their teeth on fantasy, or
 (shudder...) CCG's. >>

I am firmly behind this as well...I am pinning my hopes on Mr Miller and T5
(after all, what better creator than the Creator??) but it is EXTREMELY
important to keep Traveller visible (in whatever form).  After all, in Las
Vegas, I have only found 4 people who had heard of Trav (and play w/ 3 of
them!)  But I have seen GURPS players in my LGS w/ 2x that number in just one
group.  They will take less of a push to give G: T a try, as opposed to these
whiney, silver-spoon sucking, lets-spend-more-of Mommy-and-Daddy's-money
little punks who seem to compose the CCG world (at least  they are here in LV;
this is not intended as being offensive to whiney little punks who have
nothing better to do that spend afore-mentioned money.  Nor am I against
spending other peoples money...at least in principle <g>)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:22:29 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

In a message dated 10/3/98 17:42:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eris@gulf.net
writes:

<< I think a TNE task system where you +/- 4 for
 each level above or below Difficult is near about perfect. >>

With the difference of suceeding on a low roll or a high one, this is
essentially the MT/DGP system...I've never had any problem w/ rolling high,
but it would be easy to change to if my players want it.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:28:36 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Using G: Trav (a survey)

Just for my personal curiosity...

Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #880
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, October 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 881



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Missile defense question
Discworld/Traveller Combination
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Quick Trav -> Gurps Trav characters
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
Missile Defense
Re GURPS
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: Re GURPS
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
Re: GT: Alien Races 1
GT Char CGen - Thanks & NEW - Experience Points
Re: New Disadvantage
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: "It Isn't Traveller"
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages
Using G: Trav (a survey)
Using G: Trav (a survey)
Re: Traveller's Aid Society

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:36:32 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Missile defense question

  I just picked up the newest Honor Harrington novel, and it led me to an idea
I had never had.  Is it possible to use meson and particle bays (or turrets,
in the case of PAWs) as a last-ditch point defense weapon?  Granted that it
would be incredibly wasteful of power and space...but in an emergency?

I could see an arguement that the precision of the firing solution needed for
a MG might preclude it's use in a PD role (it must be extremely difficult to
time the decay rate for a missle)  but that would not seem to hold true for
PAWS.  Would this greatly upset the balance of the combat system?  (BTW, this
is for use w/ the MT combat system...or even HG I suppose)

And what DM's would be used to determine the chance to stop the attack?  Would
you use the ones already in the game, or would this require a different set?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:11:35 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Discworld/Traveller Combination

Paul James said:
>Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space. Their
>first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be the work of the
>Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was nobody -
>not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.
>
>If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating on
>the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle
>(sex unknown).
>
>Afterall given that the last GURPS product released before GURPS Traveller
>was GURPS Discworld this combination is logical ;0

GURPS Discworld discusses the possibility (but not specifically mentioning
Traveller). GURPS Traveller does not cover the possibilityat all, but it
should present no problem to the referee with some imagination. 

I can see it making for an amusing session or three...

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 03:28:21 GMT
From: traveller-m2n@zwieracz.pse.pl
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

On 2 Oct 98 16:44:20 GMT, spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se (Jens Spacejens
Rydholm) disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by writing:

[...]
>How many of these supplements will there be? What will they cover? Where
>can I find this info myself, instead of pestering you with stupid
>questions?

How about 
http://www.sjgames.com/ 
?

>> As a general statement here to all: GURPS is the generalized _mechanic_ of the
>> game, the way the ROLL-playing is handled. The ROLE-playing information is
>> useable in ANY system.
>
>Clearly, but what I wanted to know is this...
>
>How much of the book is rules, and how much is background? 50-50? 10-90?
>What is the usual ratio for GURPS supplements?

Depends, but usually 70-80 percent is background and 30-20 mechanics.
Generally, the running joke around here is that GURPS supplements are
really supplements for other role-playing games, the SJG just doesn't know
it. For example: Space, Ultratech (1 and 2) and Biotech sourcebooks are
wonderful source of info for ANY SF campaign. So is Cyberpunk. 

Leslie
- -- 
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike leslie@zwieracz.terrorgarden.waw.pl
Hard SF junkie; UIN 6947998; FIAWOL; YMMV IMAO SNAFU TANJ
  IMTU ?tc t4+ to(CORPS)++ ru-- ge++ !3I jt au- he++ 
  merc+ !st ls !kk hi++ as+ !so !vi !sy say++
"Bystanters only count as visual cover." - Jasper Merendino

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 98 22:25:58 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

On 10/03/98 at 10:22 PM,  DustyLV769@aol.com said:

><< I think a TNE task system where you +/- 4 for
> each level above or below Difficult is near about perfect. >>

>With the difference of suceeding on a low roll or a high one, this is
>essentially the MT/DGP system...

Pretty close isn't it, I use 7 task levels, though.  ;-> I said I
fell in love with it.  I also said I changed it and liked rolling
low, so that's what I did.  With slight modifications it works with
3d6 (+/- 3), 2d6 (+/- 2), can be connected with FUDGE description
labels for skills, and...to me...just feels right.  ;->

>I've never had any problem w/ rolling high, but it would be easy to
>change to if my players want it.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 13:34:46
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Quick Trav -> Gurps Trav characters

Roll your UPP.

Add 3 to ST,DX,End and INT. Thats St, DX, HT and Int.

Take double your EDU as points in character concept appropriate skills
(History, Area Knowlege, Philosophy. Whatever fits).

Divide SOC by 3 and round off, then subtract 2. Thats your Social Status
(eg Soc 4- is Status -1, Soc 5-7 is Status 0, Soc 6-8 is Status 1 etc).

Now, start your career.

If you go to college and get Honours, then give yourself skill-12 (or IQ)
in your major, skill-15 (or IQ+3) if you have a PhD in it.

If you are using a system that delivers about 2 skills per term, each
Traveller skill level turns into 4 GURPS points in that skill. Trav
flavours that deliver about 1 skill per year (T4, High Guard etc) deliver 2
GURPS points into that skill. Trader should be taken as 'Area Knowledge
<Commodity>' or as 'Area Knowledge <[Subsector] Trade Routes>'.

Cash mustering benefits are Temporary Wealth of that amount. Trav pensions
equate to Comfortable advantage for pensions of Cr 4000 p.a. or more.

Characters can be balanced up or down with appropriate advantages or
disadvantages, to take the Gurps point value to the appropriate range.

Starships as mustering benefits can be balanced by Duty <IISS> or <Bank
Payment>.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:01:45 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

From:           	"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Date sent:      	Sat, 03 Oct 98 19:18:44 -0500

>On 10/04/98 at 12:03 PM,  "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> said:

>>>So, am I barking up the wrong tree with this, stuff?  Should I
>>>quietly go away, or do you folks think I should continue tinkering
>>>with this idea?

>>Keep tinkering, please. 

>Ok, I will. ;->

How about starting your 18 year old with 33 + 2d points (giving a range of 
between 35 and 45 points). Then adding more points per term served. This 
brings an element of randomness back without dominating the points system.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be
found advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of
nuclear weapons
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 22:19:52 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)

>
>Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:28:36 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Using G: Trav (a survey)
>
>Just for my personal curiosity...
>
>Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
>system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
>actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?
>

[raises hand]

Though I'm not sure if I really count - I've run essentially the same two
space campaigns (one near-term, pre-FTL, the other set in the Islands
Clusters) by turns for years, using whatever system the players I could
find were comfortable with:  Traveller (CT or TNE - I've never used MT or
T4), R. Talsorian's Cyberpunk/Deep Space, GURPS Space/Cyberpunk.  

I reincarnated my Islands Clusters campaign as soon as SJGames announced
the GT project, used GURPS Space rules and CT background until the playtest
material went up, switched to the playtest beta, and now I'm retooling to
use GT as written.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:20:57 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: Missile Defense

Speaking of the Honor Harrington books - I really liked David Weber's
accounts of missile duels. The layered defenses (ECM, anti-missile
missiles, PD lasers) were well described, made me think of the layers
on a High Guard ship (computer comparisons for ECM, repulsors, nuke
dampeners, sandcasters, lasers & energy weapons in point-defense
mode).


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:24:00 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re GURPS

Tim Carroll <timc@paratwa.org> replied to me as such:
>>7) No starting play area defined (Yes, there is a SS map, but NO DATA
>>LISTING!!!). Even CT (The Traveller Book, Deluxe Traveller) had starting
>
>Well, there will be a 128 page book on the Spinward Marches.  Is that
>good enough for you?  Sure, they could have put a microscopic listing in
>the book, but would it have done you that much good?  Would it have been
>enough information to really run anything?

atually, no it is not... If you're going to put a subsector map in, you
should at least have some data on the worlds contained therin. I
philosophically oppose any and all "teasers" in the body of a game book.

[snip]
>
>Boy, I'm glad you don't have an opinion here or anything.  Sheesh.  I've
>been playing Traveller for 15+ years and GURPS for about 10 and there is
>not really that much of a difference between a hunk of random rolls and a
>point system.  Yes, point based systems occasionally lead to abuse -- but
>only if you are an incompetent gamemaster.  Frankly, every game I've run
>for a long time I've basically said two things to players:

Gee, sounds about even experiential base there. I will NEVER AGAIN play in
nor run a GURPS event at a con... compared with the other gamers, the
"gurpsies" were the rudest, whiniest, most rules lawyering bunch I have
ever encountered...

>1)  Don't try to rules-lawyer.  I'm sneakier than you are.  Plus you
>won't be invited back.

inneffective with most hardened gurps players I've met. If they aren't
allowed to misinterpret the rules, they generally leave. Most of my player
base refuse to play GURPS, but are willing to play hero... and I have been
active in the local gaming community up here for over 13 years, in the end
of running/seting up/GMing local/statewide Cons. One local con refused to
allow a GURPS event due to the whining interrupting everyone else the
previous year.

>2)  Make interesting characters.
>
Again, this seems to be a failing amongst most die-hard GURPS fans... most
of them "Clone" their characters, having a pre-set pick of certain
advantages and disadvantages they take, and never do they vary this core.
This has been endemic in every GURPS game I've encountered.

These are not problems endemic to GURPS, but problems caused by the GURPS
mechanics appealing to that type of player, especially of late.

Random background generation tends to attract individuals willing to play a
wide variety of character types, and willing to take a frame and build upon
it, rather than detail driven point generators.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 98 01:10:11 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

On 10/04/98 at 06:01 PM,  "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> said:

>How about starting your 18 year old with 33 + 2d points (giving a
>range of  between 35 and 45 points). Then adding more points per term
>served. This  brings an element of randomness back without dominating
>the points system.

Hum, I was thinking about this and came up with just about the same
idea.

First, how the points are generated...

Eighteen year old initial points:  30 + 3d6 (33 to 48)

College (2 yr terms): 2d6 per term
 Vocational Track
   1. Applied Tech Degree (each term is for a different specialty)
 Academic Track
   1. BA/BS
   2. Masters
   3. PhD
     or
   3. JD
    or 
   Medical Track
    3. Medical School
    4. Intern
    5. Resident (MD)
    
Academy (4 year term):  10 + 2d6
  Military
  Naval
  Merchant
  
Careers (4 year terms): 3 + 2d6

Players are encouraged to purchace Advantages and Skills as they go,
however unexpended points carry over from term to term.

Second, what do you spend them on...

A. Develop *small* templates/packages for 
   1.  Organization specific templates (examples)
       a.  Navy Enlisted Life       
       b.  Navy Officer Life
       c.  Merchant Life
       d.  Scout Life
       e.  College Life

   2.  Profession/Job specific templates (examples)
       a.  Starship Engineering
       b.  Starship Piloting
       c.  Scouting Techniques
       d.  Merchant-Trade Operations
       e.  Medical Doctor
       f.  Naval Combat 
       g.  Ground Combat
       h.  Construction Worker <g>
       
[This looks doable, to me at least, but I think the college terms are
going to be a problem.  They always were in Traveller chargen, so
why should they be different now.  ;->]

How does this look to everyone?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 02:14:04 EDT
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re GURPS

In a message dated 98-10-04 01:31:59 EDT, you write:

>	aramis@gci.net

Sad to say GURPS players are not the only whining rules lawyers on the block.

I've been playing roleplaying games for 17 years and they are everywhere. 
It's like saying all people who play AD&D are hack-n-slash, need to move out
of their parents house overgrown 10 year olds.

Point being that a few bad apples should not be grounds for condemning people
because they happen to play with a game system you may not like.

Sincerely,
Thendal 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 02:28:39 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)

At 10:38 PM 10/3/98 -0500, Dusty wrote:
>Just for my personal curiosity...
>
>Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
>system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
>actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?
>

Converting - game should start in 2 - 3 weeks...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:07:16 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Alien Races 1

Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
"Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>

>IIRC, GURPS is a simple system. I guess it won't be too hard to create
>character generation rules, especially not if the meaning of the
>advantages/disadvantages are easy to understand ('Huge size', 'Extra
>limbs'). Is this the case?

Generally.  I can't think of any ones that you would have at
least some idea about, but I can't guarantee there aren't any.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:21:15 +0100
From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: GT Char CGen - Thanks & NEW - Experience Points

I should like to thank every ones suggestions to my queries.

I particularly liked the quick conversion rules by
Ian or Katts  Subject: Quick Trav -> Gurps Trav characters.

As this seems to be more to my liking.  I do not like points
based systems in general, but this system gives a basis for 
the character concept.

I was looking for a system which would be so many points at
age 18, and then every four years afterwards a number of points.

I do not like the point for disadvantages, why should the blind
chap with unsanitary habits and spits a lot in public have more
points.  

K'Kree should be fun lots of insanities to collect, lots of dependants.
(especially those Bunnies).

I mentioned the option of 200 points because I was contemplating 
the possibility of using two templates.  Obviosly the Barbarian and
the Spec Ops Marine :)

As to starting rules - I did not read the 100 points max bit as I only
picked up to book yesterday (UK FLGS).


Would 10 points for the MOB of TAS membership seem too expensive, rather
than take a fantastically rich character trait and purchase the membership
directly.

In GURPS space there is a TL modifier to the starting wealth - would this
seem appropriate to use for Traveller.

- ------

Now experience points seem to unbalance the game very quickly (the
IQ monster was mentioned)

Does anyone consider the issuing of experience points fractions to be
the way forward.  You did well on your piloting skill you can have .2
points on that skill.  However, your character did not spit enough so you
loose a total of .1 points.

Points only by Instruction - (old CT / Expanded rules) no experience points
are awarded in normal course of events, but can learn .25 skill points per
week or so of training.

Or only issue experience points on the completetion of a particular mission,
like the end of the Traveller Adventure or the end of the Arrival Vengeance 
tour.

TIA once again.






Dom
- ---

mailto:dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com  or  mailto:dominicr@bigfoot.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:28:10 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: New Disadvantage

>Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:21:17 EDT
>From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne)

>On Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:30:36 -0400 "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> writes:

>>> 	Can you still run the character if you take UB: Zombie?
>>(And,
>>> for those of you who think there can be no zombies in a non-magical
>>> environment, take a look at the Larry Niven short story "Night on
>>Mispec
>>> Moor", from his "N-Space" collection!) :)

>>Hmm...a new supplement..."Rotting Zombies of the Fighting Imperium"...
>>
>>being undead (as opposed to dead) is an advantage :)

That's it!  Stephon's appearance in MT isn't because he
was there be assasinated.  He was, but he was brought
back from the dealk. a;lk2 ev0i2	09qr
[no carrier]

FNORD


Sorry, someone got on my account again, please ignore
the gibberish....

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:39:19 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Sat, 03 Oct 1998 19:21:00 +0100
>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>

>Once again a newbee GURPS question.
>
>The templates for Characters in GURPS Traveller are approximately
>90 points.
>
>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>retiring.

Well, the 100 point "standard" would work fine.  Though if the
GM wanted more heroic characters he might up it a bit.

>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
>a template and some other skills.

Well, at 200 points the templates are going to need a fair amount
of fleshing out.  OTOH, whether this is a good thing or bad thing
depends on how you look at it.  It means that newbies won't have
fairly complete characters, but it also give people using
template more room for customization (though one can always
ignore parts the templates if the wanted more leway).

>Could a character purchase two templates and use the best stats from
>each and the skills and quirks that best fit to make a character that
>has had a career change.

Templates are completely optional.  There is no reason you can't
use them any way you want w/out worrying about game balance.


______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:48:17 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller"

Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:31:46 EDT, DustyLV769@aol.com
><<  It doesn't model the Traveller character creation
> rules...and for that, I am thankful. It is after all GURPS Traveller.

>This statement is the whole basis of my dislike...It IS GURPS Traveller...
>it's not Traveller (in whatever setting.)  Character gen is not the whole
>issue, it's just one of the many things that had to be changed to make
>Traveller into GURPS.

GURPS was never going to be Traveller in that it was going to
have all the quirks of the Traveller rules mechanics (like
random generation).  Nor should it have been.  If that is what
one wanted, then you should take the MT rules books (or whatever
rule system floats your boat) and reprint them.   What it does
do is give the feel of the background quite well.

Now some people are using this to assail it as "not Traveller".
I think this has more to do with people who didn't want the
GURPS mechanics pinning for the "good old days" of MT (or
whatever) mechanics.  Now I respect their preferences, but
to say that those who don't agree should say that GT is
"Traveller" is being a bit closed minded about it.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:54:12 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

Note:  Character age and experience doesn't necessarily
correspond to character point totals.  A low stat character
with few advantages but a lot of points in skills from
experience might be a lower point total than a novice
how is the smartest and most talented person ever to
enter the service.

Generally the choice of character points is based more on
wether the GM wants either a more "heroic" or "cinematic" campaign.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:05:28 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller| Templates and Packages

Note: There are those in the GURPS community who do not use point
totals (they have the character make up what he thinks fits his
conception and not worry about the points it comes out to) and/or
disads (just take the ones the fit the character).

I personally don't like to do it that way but if it floats your
boat, go ahead.  Similarly, if you want to make up a random character
creation method, go ahead.  You can even post it to the GURPS mailing
list and the GURPS archive.  (I won't use it, but I suspect that
won't cause any loss of sleep :-).

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:57:04 +0100
From: "Paul James" <paul@turing.tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Using G: Trav (a survey)

Depending on how it looks (and how GURPS looks as well) I may be moving my
group over to GT.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:11:54 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Using G: Trav (a survey)

Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:28:36 EDT
DustyLV769@aol.com

>Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
>system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
>actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

Well, I was running a GURPS Traveller I wrote myself before
GT came out and I'm am going to switch over to the rules in
GT, but I suppose that doesn't count?  :-)

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:31:20 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:28:58 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 20:19:48 EDT
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society
>
>In a message dated 10/3/98 12:12:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:
>
><< Because the GOS (Good Ol' Sophont) network that is club membership...for
>their
> annual fees, many exclusive country clubs are worth little in what the member
> recieves from the _club_, but what they get from access to other club members
> as peers may be much more valuable. >>
>
>How else do the scruffy nerf-herding PC's get to meet the Princess and take
>her charter in the Free Trader Rust Bucket....?

How many "scruffy nerf-herders" do *you* know who can ante up 1 MCr *per year*
for, effectively, nothing much at all?

I know *I* don't know any (of course, I don't know any nerf-herders at all ...
but you get the idea) ...

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #881
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, October 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 882



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits 
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey) 
Re: FFS/QSDS Sheets
Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: FFS/QSDS Sheets
Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: Re GT
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
TAS
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: GT Char CGen
RE: Using G: Trav (a survey)
re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
re Testing
re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Dogfight 
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
RE: GT Char CGen - Thanks & NEW - Experience Points

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 04:39:24 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits 

> Seriously, I do use the MT rules AS THEY WERE MEANT TO BE (i.e, after taking
> into account the errata that has come about since the first printing), w/ a
> lot of CT thrown in (mostly background...never have played the Rebellion w/ a
> group, but don't believe the plotline has to be the dead-end GDW made it).  

I don't think of the Rebellion as the end of time.  Just the end of the 
Imperium.  It happened before, it was bound to happen sometime.  My guys are 
out in the field picking up the pieces.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 04:42:01 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey) 

> Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
> system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
> actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

Not me.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 10:30:40 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FFS/QSDS Sheets

> 2) Would someone be willing to check the altered sheets out for accuracy.
> (I'd ask Andy, but I want him to keep working on upgrades ;-)

Sure, I'm a bit of an Excel expert (I wrote the first go at the save/load 
macros for Andy's spreadsheet).

Your grade 11 class could look at various ways of making user interfaces 
"easy" to use:

Why no have a button that toggles it's caption from No to Yes (or whatever 
is approriate).  The button is placed over the relevant cell and just 
changes the number in the cell.

Tiny button that togles as above, but effect of the value selected is in 
the adjacent cell with an =choose() formula.  The button is just a way to 
use the mouse to cycle through options, rather than entering a number.

Buttons and drop downs are a pain to use (in Excel) without a mouse - why 
not practice some menu design with your class so they can try that approach 
as well (I'm just getting the hang of the new drag & drop menu design in 
Excel 97 ... much more like using VB or Delphi menu design tools) - the 
only problem is that I can't make menu changes that are only available when 
a specific spreadsheet is loaded.  In Excel 97, menu re-design seems to be 
global (i.e. for any spreadsheet) - I prefered the "old" method of menu 
changes being file-specific.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:38:47 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

Uhm, it seems to be warming up around here. I didn't realise it was time for the 
biannual TML flame war, my how time flies, it seems like only yesterday we 
were hurling abuse at one another last time.

Okay hows about we all agree that some people actually like to play the 3rd 
Imperium setting using the GURPS rules, and that they have every right to be 
here (I know nobodies suggested they don't, but you get the idea). I've not seen 
G:T or BTC, but from the sound of things they sound like excellant 
supplements and I will be purchasing them (and writting for it if I get half the 
chance :*>). And hows about we except that some of us don't like the way 
GURPS reproduces Traveller for various reasons and will try to "fix" what we 
perceive as its shortfalls. And just maybe we can all get some ideas from one 
another.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:23:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: FFS/QSDS Sheets

>
>I need an assignment for my gifted grade 11 class (age 16). I was
>considering having them add controls to Andy's spreadsheets to make them
>easier to use. For example, instead of entering 1 for yes, 2 for no, you
>would click a pair of radio buttons marked yes and no.  
>
>Two questions:
>
>1) Is this a change people would like?

Hell Yes!

Andy's sheets are *great*, but radio buttons and drop-downs and such would
make them the cat's pajamas...

(or whatever it is cats think are the coolest thigns ever? Katnip flavored
mice?)

I'd been considering doing them myself, but have enough other Excel 
sheets on my platter at the moment (one for Mekton Zeta+, one for 
the neato racial generation system Mark Chase built for Fuzion, and some
other stuff) that I've basically put it off forever... :-(

>2) Would someone be willing to check the altered sheets out for accuracy.
>(I'd ask Andy, but I want him to keep working on upgrades ;-)
>
>
>Naturally, I won't release these myself. If there's a demand, I'll send
>them to Andy and let him decide.
>

Scott taylor
freelancer for Hire
Have Powerbook, Will Travel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 03:36:37 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

At 10:38 PM 10/4/98 +1300, you wrote:

>Okay hows about we all agree that some people actually like to play the 3rd 
>Imperium setting using the GURPS rules, and that they have every right to be 
>here (I know nobodies suggested they don't, but you get the idea).

Ecept for me, who runs CORPS, using Gurps Ultratech 1 and 2, Biotech, and
Cyberpunk for ideas, and Brilliant Lances for space combat.

Trying to declare what Traveller *is* based on mechanics is like blind men
trying to define the elephant.  There have been four distinct,
non-compatible sets of mechanics for this game.  The only links have been a
fairly hard-sf edge and the setting.  

- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 03:51:37 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Re GT

At 11:24 AM 10/3/98 -0800, you wrote:

>6) Not a background generation system.... a point generation system known
>for the most tightly pointmongering rules lawyers around anywhere.

It's way too late, and I've had a bitch of a day, so be warned.

I guess everbody who is complaining about the points-based character
generation in GURPS are complete slaves to the dice in Char gen.  Y'all
have never fudged a roll to help someone achieve a character they wanted to
play.  "Gee, sorry Bob, but Starkiller Deathwind has left the Navy with
Admin-4 and Steward-2.. that's the dice for you.."

GURPS (and CORPS) allow a player to create exactly the PC he or she wishes
to play.  Unlike the Heinlinesque strong-jawed heroes without a flaw I've
seen generated from Traveller, my players' CORPS characters have
shortcomings that get played out in the game.  One of my roomates plays an
ex-Marine with traumatic nightmares.. he depends on his imposing size to
win fights, because he fezzes when bullets start flying.  Explain to me how
that comes up in any of Traveller's incarnations.

There is an easy solution for the rules-rapist who takes "one-hand" as a
disad then wants points for each finger; you say "not in my game."
- --

+--------------------------------------+
|Douglas E. Berry    dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/     |
+--------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given       |
|  only to the efficient."             |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, German Army |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 07:58:50 -0400
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Just for my personal curiosity...
> 
> Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
> system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
> actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?
> 

Yes.  
I have a 5thFW era campaign that's on hold right now while I run GURPS
Illuminati.  Last rules I tried to use was T4.  I'm looking forward to
running it with GT.

John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:28:55
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TAS

I personally dont have a problem with MCr1 per year for TAS membership.

At a flat MCr 1 for a membership, the Cr 120 000 worth of high passage
tickets is just too high a rate of return - even if they are sold at 3/4
face value, then it's still an 8% rate of return.

8% rates of return are a lot higher than standard Traveller starship
mortgages.

However, as a quasi-Imperial body, TAS could awards a fixed number of
annual-fee free life memberships each year to the Imperial Navy, which then
awards them through it's own processes - I personally think anybody who
gets a Starburst for Extreme Heroism should get one on leaving the service,
for example.

The other option is 'Associate TAS membership', which should be cheaper but
give a lower level of service.

Alternativly, relabel references to TAS as 'The Octagon Society' or
something - thats the one the stuffy noble types join, and turn TAS into
something a lot more like a combination of Lonely Planet merged with the
Better Business Bureau (*).

As long as Ditzie has somewhere to get a long lime and lemon, hot strong
coffee and somewhere to meet that rilly rilly niiiiiice young manly man
with the foorty-two hunnerd cuuuubic meeeters of ex-eye-en-en-ennnie-en
acuuuuuuuuummulators, she'll be happy.

Ian Whitchurch

(*) Any resemblence to any orginisation metioned in any BBC radio serials
and associated knockoffs is purely co-incidental.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:17:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/3/98 12:12:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:
> 
> << Because the GOS (Good Ol' Sophont) network that is club membership...for
> their
>  annual fees, many exclusive country clubs are worth little in what the member
>  recieves from the _club_, but what they get from access to other club members
>  as peers may be much more valuable. >>
> 
> How else do the scruffy nerf-herding PC's get to meet the Princess and take
> her charter in the Free Trader Rust Bucket....?
> 

Our ilustrious PC's while undertacking a charter from a Zho prieast and
apprentice (and doing a bit of smuggeling on the side), missjumped into
Dlan's astroid field and were brought into High port under tow.
Constructing an amasing plan to escape, foiled the Ilelish Gard and went
about disarming the defences of High Port. Archduke Dulinor (himself a
converted Zho) took charge when the allert sounded, and managed to kill
the Zho priest, but not before our PC's (a marches man, and an Aslan),
rescued the Zho Princess from interagation by Dulinor, via the garpage
disposal with the help of the Zho apprentice, and a cupple of Warbots he
brough allong (disarmed so as not to rasie suspition). The Far Trader Rust
Bucket (over 40 years old, with heavy modifications) managed to evade the
Planet class Heavy Cruisers, while defeating the Rampart class fighters,
before reaching jump point to escape ...

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'

                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:38:57 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: GT Char CGen

>
>Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:21:15 +0100
>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>
>Subject: GT Char CGen - Thanks & NEW - Experience Points
>
>I was looking for a system which would be so many points at
>age 18, and then every four years afterwards a number of points.
>

Start with a complete and viable 75 point character at age 18.  The usual
advantages and disadvantages are available, but this is the only time
players may choose *inherent* dis/advantages - things like Danger Sense or
Empathy, or disadvantages like Albino.  The -40 point limit on
disadvantages still applies, and will continue to apply as a maximum
throughout the process.  There is also a 36-point limit on points spent on
skills (per GURPS Basic Set, p. B43). If you want, you can restrict the
initial skills list to what reasonably might be available to a teenager IYTU.

For the first term, add 25 points (as if it were experience).  This
represents basic training, college, or some such - the learning curve is
steeper - and brings the character level with his peers from straight GT.
The points can be applied to advantages and attributes as well as skills,
and additional points can be gained from disadvantages if the -40 point
maximum has not been reached. Here is one place where this system cuts the
character a break:  attribute adds cost their listed amount, not doubled as
is usual after the start of play (since this is still technically chargen).
 Skills (and possibly advantages and disadvantages as well) should be taken
from a specific career's template; the maximum of (age x 2) in skill points
still applies.

For every term thereafter, add 10 points as above.  This is what an average
character would receive on the job anyway (p. B184).  Specify a career for
each term, but it need not stay the same from one term to the next.  Don't
forget to apply aging effects, although in GURPS these are much gentler and
start later (aging rolls begin at age 50 for TL7-; optionally per GURPS
Space, p. 66: 70 for TL8, 90 for TL9, and 110 for TL10+).  If the character
doesn't have disadvantage points left to take the Aging disadvantage, he
musters out automatically.

Quirks can be added at any time during the process, or you can simply let
the character have the -5 points and see what quirks develop during play.

You can also mix this system with Ian Whitchurch's quick conversion.

This system has a distinctly TNE flavor; whether that is a Good Thing (tm)
or not is up to you.  I have playtested it on my Traveller group:  the
experienced GURPS players griped a bit at first, but they got into the
spirit of the thing eventually.

>I do not like the point for disadvantages, why should the blind
>chap with unsanitary habits and spits a lot in public have more
>points.  
>

Doing the disadvantages as described above seems to encourage players to
tie them to specific advantages or points of character history, as they get
added over time.

>In GURPS space there is a TL modifier to the starting wealth - would this
>seem appropriate to use for Traveller.
>

I can't find the specific rule you mention, but in general there are two TL
effects on wealth in GURPS:

(1) Starting wealth varies with *campaign* TL, per p. B16.  If you are
bringing equipment from a supplement set at a different tech level into GT
(medieval armor from GURPS Camelot, say), it is appropriate to multiply the
listed price by ($15,000 / starting wealth of other campaign), to keep the
numbers compatible.  Otherwise, don't try to use the table on B16 - it
reflects the then-current supply of money at each historical tech level,
and doesn't form a consistent economic system.

(2) Prices vary with TL within a campaign, per GURPS Space p. 45.  You can
handle this one of two ways:  assume that all prices are in Imperial
credits, and that low tech goods are simply cheaper on high TL worlds; or
set up an exchange rate system, with the rate doubling every TL above 8,
and halving at every TL below 8.  In the latter case, there will be
tremendous difference (x16) between getting paid in TL12 (Imperial) credit
and TL8 credit.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:13:11 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: RE: Using G: Trav (a survey)

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
>system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
>actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

Sort of. That is, I converted a T4 campaign to Gurps in 97 (I did the same
with a TNE campaign in 96.) Haven't yet decided whether I will reawaken that
one or start a new one when I actually get Gurps Traveller.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:33:05 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: GURPS Traveller

Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> wrote:

>Also, in case no one noticed, there'a a new "Author Solicitation Page"
>at SJ Games - http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/
>Anyone want to write any of the following?

<Snip>

>Also, it seems that in addition to 'Behind the Claw', 'Aliens vol.I' is
>already in production, or has been accepted at any rate.

Well, I know that there is a complete manuscript for Aliens Vol 1 for T4
which got canned when IG gave up the ghost.... perhaps this is the same
beast?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:53:17 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

 "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net> wrote:

>Re:  Explosive fusion plants in the Honor Harrington ficton.  Come
>on, folks!  It's just a matter of poetic license. ;-> Unless...
>
>...fusion plants in HH's universe are fusion *bombs* who's reaction
>has been slowed to an absolute crawl allowing power to be safely
>extracted.  Lose the magic that slows the reaction down and it
>*does* go boom!

If you were using a toroidal fusion reactor (Tokumak?) and lost the
magnetic containment, wouldn't the plasma want to obey centifugal effects
and fly out radially, making a big mess, especially when is comes into
contact with the fuel systems?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:49:21 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re Testing

 "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Hello?
>Has the Traveller Mailing list suddenly had an electronic stroke? I haven't
>seen any messages for two days.
>Hello?

>Beware the sound of a Babel fish,
>For a Vogon constructor fleet cannot be far behind.

You obviously didn't hear the Babel fish over the wind noise from the
hurricane....

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:30:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

"jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Aye, tis a sad state of affairs.  When I started gaming back in 77' or
>so, the first thing I ever picked up was an original copy of OGRE (the
>one in the little plastic bag, with counters you had to cut out, and NO
>YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!)

I've got a copy too (picked it up in 83) but it's worn too death now - I'm
using photocopied counters when I play it, and the original map disappeared
a long time ago....

>Anyway, I soon progressed to SFB, played some Dice
>and Dice with some friends, then I found this black box with the red
>stripe on my gaming store's shelves.  Ahh, I knew I had found what I had
>been searching for, sort of the Holy Grail of games ya know?  Anyway,
>even though we were as young then as the new gamers are now, we had a
>lot more imagination.  Heck, we not only played SFB, we designed ships,
>scenarios, and actually got to do playtesting for the company!  Those
>were the days.  And Traveller!  Designing whole universes, great fleets,
>we were in gamer's heaven.  Seems like these days, a lot of imagination
>has gone by the wayside with these card games.  Now I know, not all the
>new gamers are in this state, so don't flame me for being narrow minded,
>but sometimes I wonder where the hobby will be in another decade or so.
>I'll still be here (I hope!) Okay, enough mourning, gimme my FFS2, I
>need a bigger plasma rifle!!

I think what has happened is that we've all got more lazy. Look at the
games systems which have survived the last 20 years - Traveller, Runeques,
AD&D, Cthulhu - and the slightly younger but still healthy games -
Shadowrun, GURPS, etc - and they all (bar AD&D) have an extensive
background pre-written. In the older games it evolved - in the newer it has
been created quickly.

Look at the style of the old Traveller adventures to books like /Missions
of State/. /Twilight's Peak/ (Forex) left much of the work to the Ref to
hang the game around. It was a great 'meta-plotline' but you had to develop
a host of smaller adventures to hang it around. But things 'progressed' and
adventures became something with all the stats which is so much easier for
a rushed ref to use.

Also, look at the older material - most of it was rules - and compare it to
something recent. You had to generate your own material now. The problem is
(and it's as valid in Traveller as it is in other systems) that there's a
reluctance to break with written material ('canon'). In some cases, I have
seen players as fanatical about the background and rules being followed
properly as people used to be about AD&D (/rules lawyers/). We have that in
Traveller (and I'm as guilty as everyone else, maybe a little luckier as
some of my material has become part of that written mass of work) as much
as everywhere else. I find consistency easier to argue for in a hard Sci-Fi
game than in a fantasy game, but it is the same state of affairs.

One of my friends quoted someone (can't remember who but I think it had to
do with Faded Suns) saying that they had to release a new supplement every
two months or they would have cashflow problems. So in addition to our
demand for pregenerated background, the game companies have an interest in
supplying a universe with a background. We buy the background, not the
rules. And in the face of the market impact of games like /Magic/ the
companies needed something we will buy to keep themselves in business.

I'm not really knocking either the pregenerated approach, or the homebrew
universe (I like a synthesis of the two) but you could consider the
difference as being analogous to making a meal yourselve from a wide and
varied set of ingredients, and buying a prepared meal ( or knocking it
together from a few modular components ). Both are satifying, but which one
will the maker feel most proud of?

I just obtained a copy of /SLA Industries/ (which is not the nicest game
out) but I was impressed by two things. The amount of background and the
way it had been structured to allow the referee to use it in their own way.
Details etc are presented as reports, and much of the background is hinted
at but not directlt stated. The referee has the option to take it further
themselves (in almost any way) or wait for a supplement. I bought a
supplement too (/Karma/) which is 95% background in the same style, with
about ten pages of rules interpretations. It was nice to get a game which
leaves so much to the referee (and looks so pretty - published by a small
company, using an Atari Falcon it blows away IG's material).

Milieu 0 did this for me (almost). From the heavily defined background of
the 1100's we came to a period where the unknowns were all beyond Core
sector, where there was scope for a referee to use their own background
because (in the overall scheme of Traveller's Timeline) most events would
be lost in time. In addition, the rules were streamlined (aside from FFS2).
It's a shame that IG didn't have the attention to detail to make the game
as good as GT is...

I've wandered around a bit in this, so to summarise - gaming is different
today with more emphasis on background(*) for both personal reasons (it's
what we want/time constraints) and for market reasons (surviving the CCGs
and a shrinking market).

Dom

(*) Forex - look at Chaosium - allowing AH to keep the Runequest System but
retaining the rights to the background, Glorantha.




- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:46:14 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Dogfight 

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> wrote:


>"Yes, I said closer!  Move as close as you can and engage those Star
>Destroyers at point-blank range!"
>
>When the alternative is being fired upon by a factor-Omega beam laser
>battery, this tactic becomes more viable.  :)

I've been involved in playtesting a Full Thrust / Traveller conversion -
interestingly, the lightweight ships (small battle riders with eggshell
defenses) attempted to close and start a point blank meson gun duel with
the heavy cruiser. They outnumbered it three to one, lost two ships in most
games, but managed to cripple the cruiser... close range is viable
sometimes ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 09:31:18 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)

My players and I discussed this very topic during last night's session.
We've decided to stick with my amalgamation of the CT/MT/T4.1 rules.

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Just for my personal curiosity...
> 
> Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
> system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
> actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?
> 
> DustyLV769@aol.com

- -- 
Erwin Fritz
UNIX/NT/LAN/DBA Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:43:17 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: RE: GT Char CGen - Thanks & NEW - Experience Points

>From: Dom <dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com>

>I do not like the point for disadvantages, why should the blind
>chap with unsanitary habits and spits a lot in public have more
>points.

Well, maybe the time he doesn't spend on acquiring all those annoying social
skills are instead spent, say, hacking into bank computers and acquiring
tremendous wealth? ;-)

>Would 10 points for the MOB of TAS membership seem too expensive, rather
>than take a fantastically rich character trait and purchase the membership
>directly.

Sounds about right, if all it gives is a ticket a month. If it includes,
say, a reaction bonus, Claim to Hospitality, etc, I'd charge more.

>In GURPS space there is a TL modifier to the starting wealth - would this
>seem appropriate to use for Traveller.

Definitely.

>Now experience points seem to unbalance the game very quickly (the
>IQ monster was mentioned)

While it *can* be a problem, being consistent from the beginning helps.
Before I got the hang of it, I've given both too much and too little,
neither of which is good. It also depends on campaign style. For a classic
traveller style (noone learns anything new) very small rewards are certainly
right.

>Does anyone consider the issuing of experience points fractions to be
>the way forward.  You did well on your piloting skill you can have .2
>points on that skill.  However, your character did not spit enough so you
>loose a total of .1 points.

Yeah, I've used a system somewhat like that in my campaigns for the last few
years. (Depending on whether I want the players to rise in power quickly or
not (and how much progress they've made in the adventure) I give from 0.5 to
2 points of 'regular xp' per session. This xp they can either spend on
anything they've done during the session or put in a pool to buy something
more expensive later (I require that they state just what they are saving up
for, no general unassigned points.) The major part of the xp however are
given for skill-use. Each successful (and worthwhile, I reserve the right to
say no) skill use gives .05 xp (equivalent to 10 hours of training) in that
skill, or .10 for a critical success.)

>Or only issue experience points on the completetion of a particular
mission,
>like the end of the Traveller Adventure or the end of the Arrival Vengeance
>tour.

I've tried this, but - at least for my group - it didn't work too well. It
brought back old memories of the bad old AD&D days. (It feels a bit too much
like levels to us.)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #882
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, October 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 883



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

GT Survey response
Dice Conversion chart
Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller Questions
GURPs additions to "Canon"
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller Questions
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
RE: Using G: Trav (a survey)
Re: "It Isn't Traveller"
Re: Re GT
GURPS players
Ship for GURPS Traveller
Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: "It Isn't Traveller"
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #881
RE: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:05:54 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GT Survey response

> Just for my personal curiosity...
> 
> Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under
any
> system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
> actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

I have a Mileau 0 campaign that will be moved into GT as soon as I and the
players can arrive at a time to do so. I am also thinking of reviving my
long-dormant TNE campaign for the occasional adventure using the GURPS
rules. And, of course, I am running an adventure right now set in the GT
timeline.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:13:37 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Dice Conversion chart

Could someone who is better with math than me do something that might help
not only me and a lot?
Basically, what I need is a simple chart for converting CT's 2-12 range and
the target numbers such as
7+, 9+ etc. and T4's system, which basically flip-flops that, and GURPS 3d6
3-18 scale.

The sneaky reason for this is that I'm looking at converting the
Enlistment/Continuation rolls and stuff from the systems to a system usable
for GURPS. I have no intention of USING this system, but I enjoy this sort
of thing, and I thought it might make a good thing for this list..and maybe
a good idea for a Pyramid article :)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:03:32 EDT
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Running GURPS:Traveller

1) Does anyone have any idea if there will be a new planetary generation
system for GT or is the idea that we must buy regular Traveller stuff missing
from GT. 

2) What about conversion rules for all the old Traveller creatures and
equipment. Any clue someone could give me on how to deal with these. 

GT has mostly background but little in the way of rules for coming up with new
campaigns with a traveller base unless you have most of the previously
released TRAVELLER books.

Am I being picky,

Thendal 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:46:02 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Questions

In article <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9810031559500.1552-100000@schultz.io.com>, 
pulver@io.com says...
> On 3 Oct 1998, Sinbad Sam wrote:
> > Does anyone know if the GURPS Alien Race Book 1 will have the subraces of
V&V in 
> > it?
> I've been specifically instructed by Miller and Wiseman to use no V&V
> material at all.

Well doesn't crumble their cookies then. It looks like they were 
unable/unwilling to play "Monty, Monty, Let make a Deal" with Roger Sanger
who 
last I heard had the rights to the Digest Group Publications stuff including 
"Vilani and Vargr" . Sounds like a cranial rectal inversion on all parties
part.

That also means that the Vargr subraces are up for grabs so to speak, so I
will

have to join IO to get a look at the playtest files then, so the additonal
Vargr 
subraces will have better fit into Gurps Traveller.

By the way what will the Aliens Race: 1, have in it for the Vargr? A detailed 
history and such? Or will it have more previously unmentioned subraces/races 
like the T4 Alien Archive did?

Thank you for your response to my request.

Sinbad Sam
Sinbad Sam
"Black Curtain" Rod Holder...
AI Virus inferior races(Aslan, Humaniti, Kkree, Droyne) Interfacer
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
sinbad@ignore.hex.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:56:40 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: GURPs additions to "Canon"

Question: I realize G:T is the "Official Alternate Traveller Universe", but
many things SJG will develop won't be only events after Strephon's
non-assassination. Someone was mentioning minor races, Vargr
subraces, etc. Will these ideas be usable by T5 when it
comes out, or will copyright by SJG keep this stuff away from T5?
I'm curious because at least a few of the people from original Traveller
(Loren for example) are involved with the G:T project.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Sun,  4 Oct 98 14:18:12 EDT
From: carioca@stratos.net (Aerron Winsor)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

At 01:03 PM 10/4/98 EDT, traveller@MPGN.COM wrote:
>1) Does anyone have any idea if there will be a new planetary generation
>system for GT or is the idea that we must buy regular Traveller stuff missing
>from GT. 
I would guess in the scouts book....

>
>2) What about conversion rules for all the old Traveller creatures and
>equipment. Any clue someone could give me on how to deal with these. 
>
Alrezady exists with vehicles and the core rules.

>GT has mostly background but little in the way of rules for coming up with new
>campaigns with a traveller base unless you have most of the previously
>released TRAVELLER books.
being taken care of as we speak.....

>
>Am I being picky,
>
>
Just a little :)

from the SJG website a list of planed GT releases....

GURPS Traveller -- Aliens II: Aslan and K'kree
GURPS Traveller -- Aliens III: Hiver and Droyne
GURPS Traveller -- Aliens IV: 20 Minor Races
GURPS Traveller -- Diplomacy and Espionage
GURPS Traveller -- Imperial Army
GURPS Traveller -- Imperial Navy
GURPS Traveller -- Solomani RimCapsule
GURPS Traveller -- Starports and Starbases
GURPS Traveller -- StarshipsCapsule 
GURPS Traveller -- Trade & Commerce

Also, listed as in progress(the first two are allready written): 
 Behind the Claw:Spinward Marches
 Aliens I:Zhodani and Vargr
 Marines
 Scouts
**-----------------------------------------------------------**
"People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting,
but SERIOUS professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a
warm place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally
hard to get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time."
                 -T.Pratchett, SMALL GODS

------------------------------

Date: Sun,  4 Oct 98 14:22:50 EDT
From: carioca@stratos.net (Aerron Winsor)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Questions

At 12:46 PM 10/4/98 -0500, traveller@MPGN.COM wrote:
>In article <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9810031559500.1552-100000@schultz.io.com>, 
>pulver@io.com says...
>> On 3 Oct 1998, Sinbad Sam wrote:
>> > Does anyone know if the GURPS Alien Race Book 1 will have the subraces of
>V&V in 
>> > it?
>By the way what will the Aliens Race: 1, have in it for the Vargr? A detailed 
>history and such? Or will it have more previously unmentioned subraces/races 
>like the T4 Alien Archive did?
>
AFAIK no subraces.....Pulver is the one to ask....
it has some ships....and I think charisma rules.
**-----------------------------------------------------------**
"People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting,
but SERIOUS professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a
warm place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally
hard to get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time."
                 -T.Pratchett, SMALL GODS

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 13:46:15 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Thendal@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 1) Does anyone have any idea if there will be a new planetary generation
> system for GT or is the idea that we must buy regular Traveller stuff missing
> from GT.
> 
GURPS Space includes detailed world/system generation rules.

<<snip>>

- -- 
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|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
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- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 98 13:46:44 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: RE: Using G: Trav (a survey)

From: DustyLV769@aol.com

>>Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
>>system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
>>actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

Not me.  Like always, I'll use anything I like from it and continue
to use whatever mishmash of homebrew I've got going at the time.

You know, it's weird...I simply love to tinker with rule systems,
but when it comes to actually *playing* (or GMing), I always use
very subjective and simple methods. 

I spend *way* too much of the free time I allocate to roleplaying
working on objective and detailed chargen systems...time I *should*
be spending on the games I'm in/running.  ;-> Anyway, as much as I
enjoy tinkering with objective chargen, I'm a *big* fan of
subjective (descriptive) chargen for play.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:22:48 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller"

In a message dated 10/4/98 0:56:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
summers@alum.mit.edu writes:

<< Now some people are using this to assail it as "not Traveller".
 I think this has more to do with people who didn't want the
 GURPS mechanics pinning for the "good old days" of MT (or
 whatever) mechanics.  Now I respect their preferences, but
 to say that those who don't agree should say that GT is
 "Traveller" is being a bit closed minded about it.
  >>

I seem to have been misunderstood about my position...I am, indeed, "pining
away" for a return to the CT/MT style system (which is still quite visible in
T4 as well);  however, that is not why I say that G: Trav is not Trav.  I say
that because it just ISN'T Traveller...it's GURPS Space w/ the Traveller
background thrown in.  As to being close-minded, I did wait until I had gotten
my copy of the game before making up my mind.  I will still support at least
the Traveller aspect of GURPS (for the background, as well as preserving the
visiblity of Trav), but it has not converted me to a dyed-in-the-wool GURPS
fan by any means.

This should not be taken as being disparging to anyone who does feel that this
is the best thing to ever happen to Traveller...it's just not for me I guess.
I grew up almost literally w/ Traveller (14 years now). I'm just an old fuddy-
duddy I suppose.  :-)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:26:35 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re GT

In a message dated 10/4/98 4:16:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<<  One of my roomates plays an
 ex-Marine with traumatic nightmares.. he depends on his imposing size to
 win fights, because he fezzes when bullets start flying.  Explain to me how
 that comes up in any of Traveller's incarnations. >>

With a very good player...and a better DM!  :-)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:21:22 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS players

 
> Gee, sounds about even experiential base there. I will NEVER AGAIN play
in
> nor run a GURPS event at a con... compared with the other gamers, the
> "gurpsies" were the rudest, whiniest, most rules lawyering bunch I have
> ever encountered...

Your experience differs greatly from mine. The people I play GURPS with are
highly intlligent, interested in roleplaying, build characters that have
personality, and know that I am very accomplished in the use of the word
"NO" if they decide to try to slip something in on me...actually, your
experience above mirrors my experience with CHAMPIONS players far more than
GURPS, but I do not assume that everyone is like that, or slam the game
system, just because of a few idiots I've encountered. As for cons, well,
cons are a different world, and in fact if you game more at cons than in
the usual enviornment, say, your own home or a friend's, you're likely to
have a distorted viewpoint.

My players have constructed a really great group for my GT game; characters
with far more "personality" and "life" than I have seen in some time in
Traveller. I am quite happy with the situation.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:34:47 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Ship for GURPS Traveller

	This is a ship I built, which was originally supposed to be a remake of
the Donosev Class Survey Ship, but as is often the case, departed onto a
path of it's own..I hope it proves useful

GLENN-CLASS SURVEY SHIP

	The Glenn-Class Survey Ship is designed for exploring uncharted systems on
extended missions. It carries a team of scientists aboard, as well as
numerous vehicles. The IISS has 6 of these currently operational, but
others have been held up due to budget cuts and the feeling that, since the
Imperium doesn't do much out-and-out exploring anymore, these ships are not
as useful as more straight warships. The ships of this class are named for
famous Solomani space explorers.

600-ton USL hull, DR 209, Command Bridge (hardened), Engineering, 25
Maneuver, 24 Jump, 360 Fuel, 3 Spacedock (capacity 750 cf, 1.5 displacement
tons, used to hold 4 air/rafts), 13 Staterooms, Sickbay, Utility, Fuel
Processor, 5 Labs, Vehicle Bay (holds 50-ton Modular Cutter with Fuel
Skimmer Module and a Lab Module), 6 Turrets (3x Triple Laser Turrets, 1x
Missle Turret, 2x Sandcaster Turrets), heavy compartmentalization.

STATISTICS: EMass 947.76 tons, LMass 1250.224 tons, Hull Size Modifier +9,
Cost 201.93 MCr (includes vehicles but not missles or other costs).

PERFORMANCE: Accel 2 G's, Jump-3, air speed n/a (not streamlined).

CREW COMPLEMENT: 1x Captain, 1x Pilot, 1x Navigator, 3x Engineers, 6x
Gunners, 10x Scientists, 2x Medics, 1x Small Craft Pilot.

NOTES: The ship has double-fuel tank space, allowing it to make 2 jumps of
3 parsecs before refuelling. In practice, it refuels after each jump,
saving the extra fuel for insurance against misjumps, as it intended to
operate in frontier areas and unexplored regions.


Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:44:16 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

In a message dated 10/4/98 8:44:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dom@cybergoths.u-
net.com writes:

<< I've wandered around a bit in this, so to summarise - gaming is different
 today with more emphasis on background(*) for both personal reasons (it's
 what we want/time constraints) >>

I have heard a lot of game store owners making the statement that companies
don't publish adventures anymore because they won't sell (these are generally
the same owners who don't stock anything on thier shelves but cases of Magic
cards and "special order" things once every 2 months;  if your REAL lucky).
But I know from my standpoint, I don't have a lot of time to put into
developing an adventure.  It was different when I was a teenager...work was
only part-time and I didn't have to worry about the adult responsibilities I
have now.  I would much sooner have a chance to buy adventures that can be
used to get a game going when I haven't had time to work out my campaign
adventure.

Just about 3 weeks ago, I had my group over for our Sunday afternnon Travfest,
but I had been feeling sick all week (my virus is now resistant to the
protease inhibitors I was taking); I didn't want to blow off the game though.
I just dug out my copy of Double Adventure 5, made a few mods, and scared hell
out of my players w/ Chamax Plague (picture the Chamax being taken on by PCs
w/ only Snub pistols and shotguns...fortunately the NPCs had slightly heavier
weapons, and being dead they didn't mind the PCs using them!  :-)

I love sourcebooks, when I have the time to make my own material using the
sourcebooks...but I also believe there is a place for pre-gen adventures in
any game.

Now we just have to drag the kids away from them damn Magic cards and those
lousy Playstations...the top 2 contributors (IMO) to RPG's becoming less
popular.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:49:17 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

In a message dated 10/4/98 8:45:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dom@cybergoths.u-
net.com writes:

<< Re:  Explosive fusion plants in the Honor Harrington ficton >>

Isn't is possible that the "exploding fusion reactor" is nothing more than a
collapse of the magnetic containment field?  Granted, this would not cause a
nuclear explosion...but I doubt the plasma from the fusion reaction would cool
instantly.

I have always thought that when the mag bottle fails, the plasma expands
outward extremely rapidly, causing an "explosion" of sorts that could
potentially be catastrophic...I seem to recall some instances in the books
where a ship was not vaporized by an exploding plant, just crippled (all
right, BADLY crippled! <G>)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:23:36 +0100
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller"

Allen Shock wrote:

> Now, someone WAS working on a Traveller-style character creation system for
> GT. I think this would be a fun thing, and would enjoy seeing it
> completed..but I won't use it. I like having the control, the choice, and
> ever since the first time I built a Champions character, I have preferred
> point-building to random creation.

There was also an article in one of the earlier White Dwarfs titled "The Self
Made Traveller" which was a points based system. I'll have to dig it our again
and have a good look at it.

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:30:54 +0100
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

Harold D. Hale wrote:

> mechanically.  There is a reason why "T5" went from being just another
> revision to being essentially a new system.  As for G:T...whatever floats

Having been out of the Trav loop for a while I know nothing of T5. Could someone
please enlighten me a bit?

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:11:03 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

	All the discussion about various game systems has led me to decide to try
to put down what I, as a fan of Traveller and a buyer of gaming products,
would like to see in the next edition of Traveller. It has been some time
since I have seen any of the materials for the proposed T 4.1/T5, so I am
operating on old info here, and this is also something of a wish list..

1. I would like to see T5 retain the character generation rules of T4 to a
large part. I liked the number of skills that characters got; it seemed
like the plan was to step back on that a bit in T5, and I would not like to
see that. I WOULD like to see two skills go completely away; Recon and Jack
of all Trades. In the former case, there are other skills that can be used
for this, such as Observation and Tracking. In the latter case, in a system
with few skills, such as CT, JOT was useful; in T4, more often than not, it
was superfluous. I see no point in having some skills be default skills,
and some not, and then giving characters a skill that helps with the
non-default rolls! and if it helps with any skills the characters don't
have, then it becomes a real problem, IMO. Oh...I'd like to see the
Charisma stat restored, as it's useful and makes more sense than having
your ability to bluff a guard be based on your Social Standing...

2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
END and DEX of the character discontinued. I would prefer there to be a
calculated stat called Hits, based perhaps on 2x END +STR or 3x END, with
wound effects for reaching the 1/3, 2/3 levels, and then of course death at
0 Hits.

3. I believe that the MT task system should be returned to the game. It is
really not that complicated compared to a lot of games out there, and it
gives very good results. It also eliminates the need to roll anything
except 2d6, which, while I did not mind the half-die and the multiple dice,
IMO complicates the game more than the MT system would.

4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. The one from MT is ok, but
ditching interrupts and introducing an Initiative roll and allowing people
to delay until later in the turn will eliminate the need for interrupts.
The system of armor used in T4 was ok, I would stick with that.

5. I would use a version of the QSDS, modified to fit the new task system
and expanded to allow ships of up to 500,000 tons for ship design. The
concept of the USP could be retained, although some things would need to be
altered to fit any new ship combat rules. It should definitley be kept
simple, IMO; I have more fun with QSDS and the ship design rules in GURPS
Traveller than I have ever had with any version of FF&S. I am not a
gearhead, and while there is nothing wrong with being one, the basic rules
should not be aimed at gearheads.

6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
the TNE era; they should be generic enough that they are not obviously
aimed at a specific mileau. Obviously every piece of equipment cannot be
included, but the basics shound range from TL 11 to TL 15.

7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. A good
example is the RPSCS developed by Joseph Walsh and others. perhaps a
second, abstract High-Guard like system could be included for battles with
larger ships. I really did not like the system presented in T4, and would
like something that lets me push a counter around a hexgrid. Mayday-style
movement would be good.

8. ALIENS. Every other edition of Traveller has made you wait to play
aliens. This one should not. Racial data for the major races and capsule
descriptions of their societies; detailed data can come later, but a lot of
us know that data anyway, and my experience is that new players expect to
be able to play aliens. Withholding that info for a "supplement" does not
mean that players are going to play these aliens "right" anyway. So let us
be able to play them from the start.

9. A few pages devoted to the history and structure of the Imperium,
perhaps the map of Charted Space, and a map of the Core Subsector circa
year 0 and the Regina subsector circa 1100. Give the characters a little of
the setting right in the main book. Settings are important these days, and
games that don't include them just don't do as well, from what I have seen.

10. As regards the art; we do not need full color plates. I was far happier
with GURPS Traveller, which had all black-and-white illustrations, than I
ever was with the glitzy color used in IG's stuff. I don't dislike Chris
Foss as an artist; I just think it was an unneccesary expense. I would have
preferred to have the extra pages that those color plates NOT being there
could have bought.

This would be my dream version of Traveller, the one I would shell out $30
for in a softcover trade paperback format (say, the size of the TNE
rulebook) in a heartbeat. Or better yet, a hardcover..I payed $35 for LUG's
Star Trek game without batting an eye, because when I looked at it, I felt
it was worth it. I would love to do the same for Traveller.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 98 13:29:49 -0700
From: Tim Carroll <timc@paratwa.org>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #881

>atually, no it is not... If you're going to put a subsector map in, you
>should at least have some data on the worlds contained therin. I
>philosophically oppose any and all "teasers" in the body of a game book.


I'm still working off of a Rules-draft that didn't have the maps in it.  
Yeah, putting a map in without any sort of UPPs is a little broken.  But 
given the detail that's in Behind the Claw, I'm not sure they could have 
done it justice without driving the page count and cost up a lot.

>>1)  Don't try to rules-lawyer.  I'm sneakier than you are.  Plus you
>>won't be invited back.
>
>inneffective with most hardened gurps players I've met. If they aren't
>allowed to misinterpret the rules, they generally leave. Most of my player
>base refuse to play GURPS, but are willing to play hero... and I have been
>active in the local gaming community up here for over 13 years, in the end
>of running/seting up/GMing local/statewide Cons. One local con refused to
>allow a GURPS event due to the whining interrupting everyone else the
>previous year.

Hmm, maybe it is something local to your area, or just a batch of really 
bad players.  I've run many GURPS games at cons (I used to run a lot of 
demos for SJ Games) and never ran into these problems.  Arguably, though, 
I do provide characters for my con games -- since my games tend to have 
fleshed out backgrounds for the game and characters, fitting in new 
characters for cons is just not viable.  I'd do this regardless of the 
game system I'm using.

I have no problems if bad players leave.  The trick is trying to turn 
them into good players, but if they aren't interested, I'll cull them 
from my games and find better players.

Bad players can happen in any game system -- I've seen too many Traveller 
games with "gun bunnies" who were more concerned with getting Battle 
Dress and FGMP-15s than they were with actually roleplaying.  Random die 
mechanics for character generation didn't suddenly cure them of these 
tendencies.  But I'm not about to lump every Traveller player into this 
category and start making blanket statements about those damn Traveller 
gun bunnies.  

It sounds like you've run into some really bad players, and they have 
tarnished your viewpoint.  But lumping all GURPS players into that 
category is wrong.

>>2)  Make interesting characters.
>>
>Again, this seems to be a failing amongst most die-hard GURPS fans... most
>of them "Clone" their characters, having a pre-set pick of certain
>advantages and disadvantages they take, and never do they vary this core.
>This has been endemic in every GURPS game I've encountered.
>
>These are not problems endemic to GURPS, but problems caused by the GURPS
>mechanics appealing to that type of player, especially of late.

Weird.  Maybe it is a recent change in the base of players.  But I'm not 
sure there is anything specific in the GURPS mechanics that encourage 
this.  It can happen with any point-based system, and my experience with 
GURPS is that they patched most of the problems a while ago.

One thing I saw done with one rules-lawyer was that the GM simple never 
gave him any breaks on the die rolls.  The GM might fudge other dies 
rolls (if he didn't want to kill a character or had better ideas), but 
never with that player.

>
>Random background generation tends to attract individuals willing to play a
>wide variety of character types, and willing to take a frame and build upon
>it, rather than detail driven point generators.


The key to getting good players is to get them into the roleplaying 
aspect of it. One way to do this is to actually roleplay out sections of 
the character's background as they are building the character.  Most 
Traveller characters go about four terms, so try this on for size:

Have the player make up a 50+disads character in GURPS.  During the first 
session, roleplay out the four terms the character went through.  You 
might have specific events in mind, or you mind just wing it.  
Essentially, throw them into the deep end and see how they react.  After 
each term, give the player 10 more points to play in.  After the last 
term, he gets 20 instead.  This gives a 100 point character and does a 
good job of rounding out the character.   Plus it might help you 
introduce NPCs into the game later down the line -- former shipmates, 
COs, whatever.

One benefit of this is that you can take advantage of the timeline.  I've 
played all of the Traveller random-systems and none actually take into 
account the actual events going on in the universe.  While there are 
wartime events on the charts, they are pretty random.  In the case of a 
Spinward marches campaign, there was this small, unimportant called the 
5th Frontier War....and every player should have a good idea of where 
their character was and what they were doing when it broke out.  The 5FW 
is a good place to produce some interesting background events for the 
player characters.

And if you like random die rolls, for each term, just roll up the 
assignments for each of the years in the term (using your Traveller 
system of choice) and use these results to guide your roleplaying 
sessions.

The advantage of point-based systems is that if you have a clear idea of 
the type of character you want to play, you can get closer to that 
conception.  The downside is GMs may have to keep a closer eye on new 
players to make sure they actually interested in roleplaying as opposed 
to rules-lawyering.  Rules lawyering is not endemic to GURPS -- it pretty 
much was a staple of early Champions games, and it happens in any system.

The advantage of a random die-mechanic system is that it is more 
difficult for players to manipulate it (but not impossible), and that it 
can occasionally result in characters that wouldn't necessarily come up 
as someone's first attempt at a character.  For example, an NPC I rolled 
up once ended up as a Marquis who went 6 terms in the Navy (the last two 
mandatory!) and never actually received a commission --he left as a 
Senior Gunner's Mate.  In social settings, he often outranked his 
superiors.  The downside to random systems is that you can occasionally 
see characters that are seriously overpowered (they made every roll, so 
they have twice as many skills as the other characters) or the other 
side, a completely unviable character:  who wants to play a 1-term army 
private with a UPP of 334556 and Rifle-1? -- I've seen it happen.  "What 
do you do?  I shoot things."  :D

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:46:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
Subject: RE: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long) 

In Reply to Your Message of Sun, 04 Oct 1998 16: 11:03 EDT
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 16:46:31 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@strauss.udel.edu>

: 1. I would like to see T5 retain the character generation rules of T4 to a
: large part. I liked the number of skills that characters got; it seemed
: like the plan was to step back on that a bit in T5, and I would not like to
: see that. I WOULD like to see two skills go completely away; Recon and Jack
: of all Trades. In the former case, there are other skills that can be used

I think that JOT should be kept.  It is the "Scout Skill."  It's also
the one skill that I like putting into other games I play.  It's the
idiot savant of skills that gives lucky players a break.  All it takes
is a half-decent GM to keep it from being abused.

: 2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
: END and DEX of the character discontinued. I would prefer there to be a
: calculated stat called Hits, based perhaps on 2x END +STR or 3x END, with
: wound effects for reaching the 1/3, 2/3 levels, and then of course death at
: 0 Hits.

Hmm...  This is an interesting idea.  Then again, I think that the whole
reason behind draining STR, END and DEX is to simulate "weakened"
characters.  This is a tough one to think about.

: 3. I believe that the MT task system should be returned to the game. It is

Here Here!!!  I also liked that fact that it put emphasis on skills and
not attributes.  I used to think it was a bear when I furst started
using it back in '87.  However, after I got used to it, I found it quite
elegant and ahead of it's time.  Everyone else is now trying to or has
made a task system where you throw up a difficulty number and modify it
based on stat and skill.  Definitely ahead of it's time, and nowhere
difficult as people think it is.

: 4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. The one from MT is ok, but
: ditching interrupts and introducing an Initiative roll and allowing people

Ditto.

: 5. I would use a version of the QSDS, modified to fit the new task system
        .
        .
        .
: and expanded to allow ships of up to 500,000 tons for ship design. The
: should not be aimed at gearheads.

Good call.  But as a gearhead I think that we may need to crank out
YAVOFFS (yet another version of fire fusion and steel).
Things I think should definitely be kept...
        1) under 100-ton j-capable ships during the TNE timeline
        2) alternate technologies (to flavor as you see fit)
        3) the same rules for land and space ships
        4) rules for CT and MT fuel usage (both had their pros and cons)

: 6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
: the TNE era; they should be generic enough that they are not obviously
: aimed at a specific mileau. Obviously every piece of equipment cannot be
: included, but the basics shound range from TL 11 to TL 15.

What about TL10 for the emerging societies.

: 7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. A good

Yep.

: 8. ALIENS. Every other edition of Traveller has made you wait to play
: aliens. This one should not. Racial data for the major races and capsule

Yep again.

: 9. A few pages devoted to the history and structure of the Imperium,

Do like Heavy Gear did.  Enough about a small part to give you plenty of
detail to begin playing.  Teasers and background about the other parts.
Then make sure that your first supplement details and fleshes out the
rest of the setting (with other sourcebooks giving even more details on
specialized settings).  To a degree I think this is also what GDW was
trying to do with TNE.  Of course they never released the general "Atlas
of the Imperium Vol2" and they made us wait way too long for The Regency
Sourcebook.  But hey, those are gripes of the past and I'm not bitter.
8)
 
: 10. As regards the art; we do not need full color plates. I was far happier
: with GURPS Traveller, which had all black-and-white illustrations, than I

And take a note for GURPS:Traveller.  Recycle some of the old Peters and
Caswell art.  That shit was good!

: This would be my dream version of Traveller, the one I would shell out $30
: for in a softcover trade paperback format (say, the size of the TNE
: rulebook) in a heartbeat. Or better yet, a hardcover..I payed $35 for LUG's
: Star Trek game without batting an eye, because when I looked at it, I felt
: it was worth it. I would love to do the same for Traveller.

Hardcover, no question about it.  Who doesn't pay the extra $5 for a
hardcover nowadays?

       --Jerry

*) Jerry Alexandratos             || "I'm going to try speaking some (* 
*) darkstar@udel.edu              ||  reckless words, and I want you (*
*) alexandr@hawk.pearson.udel.edu ||  to try to listen recklessly."  (*

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #883
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, October 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 884



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Question
Mailing Lists
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Non-Traveller Rant
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby:
Re:  Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: GURPS Trav - my own nits
Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: Re GT
Re: TAS
Re: Non-Traveller Rant
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 17:10:13 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

At 07:12 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Douglas wrote:
<SNIPSNIPSNIP...>
>Trying to declare what Traveller *is* based on mechanics is like blind men
>trying to define the elephant.  There have been four distinct,
>non-compatible sets of mechanics for this game.  The only links have been a
>fairly hard-sf edge and the setting.  

Hear, hear!  To me Traveller IS in the setting, hard SF and all...  If I
play Traveller using GURPS,  any of the four T-variants, or whatever, that
which makes it Traveller is the Imperium, its history, its infrastructure,
etc., and NOT the rules themselves.  Yes, I suppose one could run a game
using rules I'd refuse to play, but the point is that, to me, the rules are
secondary to the mythos.

Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:29:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
Subject: Question

Iain Banks even uses CREW (coherent radiation emission weapon).   Can
anyone tell me what one is?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:31:20 EDT
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Mailing Lists

Does anyone know if there is a mailing list for the Advanced Dungeons &
Dragons game.

If anyone know of it could you please refer me to it or at least send me the
email address to subscribe.



Thendal

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 18:42:08 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor) writes:
>Has anyone else noticed that membership of the Traveller's Aid Society
now costs
>1 million credits *PER YEAR*.
[snip]
>So why would anyone pay 1 MCr for 120,000 Cr worth of tickets? Or is it an
>error?

Why would someone pay millions of dollars for a golf club membership? Or
the fees for a rather exclusive club? This moves the TAS into the position
of being a very exclusive club. The 'free' tickets are more of an
incidental benefit than anything else, along with excellent food, lodging,
and legal advice on most planets. 

Your average player will only become a member through being granted a life
membership as a reward for service. As this is a _big_ reward, better have
them make up a suitably heroic deed - and then hold them to that
reputation!


This makes at least as much sense as having the TAS be able to afford to
keep giving away tickets for years after your membership money has run
out. I'll probably use this idea in my MT/TNE universe.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:56:27 EDT
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Non-Traveller Rant

Sethkimmel@aol.com quoted dberry@hooked.net who wrote:

<< When I was at Ft. Benning, we had an amazing problem with people dumping
 unwanted pets on post.  The cats tended to get rabid fast, and the dogs
 formed packs.  Every so often squads would have to sent out to sweep
 training areas and kill all the dogs they found.  Ever seen a feral poodle?
  Not a pretty sight...
 -- >>

and then said

> People really suck....

Off topic Rant

<Rant>
I reserve a special loathing for people who dump surplus puppies and kittens
in the country, in the misguided belief that they will be "adopted" by some
kind-hearted rural family. What usually happens is they get run over by a car
in short order, or (worse) they end up lunch for a fox or coyote. Those that
do not lead a hellish (and short) life as part of the country food chain. In
illinois, it is sometimes necessary for farmers to get together and have
"drives" where they go out, mongol hunt fashion and shoot avery wild dog they
see (it was the custom where I grew up not to touch foxes during these drives
- -- they were not viewed as a threat to livestock, but a form of vermin
control).

College students are particularly prone to dump pets -- I lived in a
"campustown" area for over a decade, and then spent another decade living near
one: at the end of every semester, a dozen or so puppies/kittens could be seen
wandering near the off-campus residences, rumaging in the garbage and
obviously abandoned. Marc Miller used to be heavily involved with a local
animal shelter (and as far as I know still is), and is familiar with the
phenomenon. 

Myself, I am not an animal lover (I don't own any, don't want to) but I am
opposed to mindless cruelty. If you don't want the responsibility of a pet, or
don't want the hassle of taking them home over semester break, for gawd's sake
have the decency to take them to the local animal shelter. Or kill them
quickly with a tire iron. Or maybe, consider not getting one in the first
place?

</rant>

Sorry -- one of my buttons got pressed.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:00:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: "P. ENGEBOS" <pengebos@NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Rob Prior wrote:
> Why would someone pay millions of dollars for a golf club membership? Or
> the fees for a rather exclusive club? This moves the TAS into the position
> of being a very exclusive club. The 'free' tickets are more of an
> incidental benefit than anything else, along with excellent food, lodging,
> and legal advice on most planets. 

And lets not forget that excellant database about individual planetary
conditions (the one they use to give amber and red zone warnings).  And
the Traveller News Network.

Plus, I have always made them a sort of safehouse type arrangement - go
here to avoid annoying customs and local laws (and to find out about them
- - first stop in every starport).  And job listings - in my universe,
people are more likely to hire travelleres with TAS membership than not -
they knew that they are likely to be more trustworthy and easier to track
down.

> Your average player will only become a member through being granted a life
> membership as a reward for service. As this is a _big_ reward, better have
> them make up a suitably heroic deed - and then hold them to that
> reputation!

Oh yeah.  And its really annoying when the local office "asks" the players
to undertake some task, out of the goodness of their hearts...

Peter Engebos				<pengebos@nmsu.edu>
T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth			<tsarith@io.com>
		http://web.nmsu.edu/~pengebos/

  "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser
beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say
 we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button
                        for our fire control system"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:13:10 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby:

 "chauncey smith" <Csmith@icdc.com> wrote:

<snip of opinions I follow but don't wholeheartedly agree with as I think
CCGs helped put the RPG industry in a slump>

>I hate to bring this up but look at AEG's Legand of the Five rings game...
>it started as a card game.

And a very good, very well presented, well balanced rolplaying game it is too.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you caninvent it. Build it." -
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 17:04:11 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re:  Running GURPS:Traveller

>
>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:03:32 EDT
>From: Thendal@aol.com
>Subject: Running GURPS:Traveller
>
>1) Does anyone have any idea if there will be a new planetary generation
>system for GT or is the idea that we must buy regular Traveller stuff missing
>from GT. 
>

It's GURPS, Jim - use GURPS Space world creation rules.  The conversions on
GT107 and 123 should let you port in whatever Traveller material you have,
but GURPS Space is the standard (except for some confusion on terminology -
starport classes and such).

>2) What about conversion rules for all the old Traveller creatures and
>equipment. Any clue someone could give me on how to deal with these. 
>

Equipment per VE2, UT, or UT2; creatures per the Basic Set, Bestiary or
Alien Bestiary.  The rules on tech in GT should be sufficient to figure out
what does and does not work in the GT universe.  Creatures can be created
by analogy with Terran models ("the size of a horse, but carnivorous").

>GT has mostly background but little in the way of rules for coming up with
new
>campaigns with a traveller base unless you have most of the previously
>released TRAVELLER books.
>

The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
Space, including world and campaign building.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 18:55:49 -0500
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav - my own nits

Sethkimmel wrote:
> I preferered mostly CT with the MT task resolution (Easy, Hard, 
> Formidable, etc.). Does this count as MT, CT, or home brew (I 
> always called it MT)?

This is what did too... CT with the task resolution system posted in
the Traveller's Digest and Grand Survey...

I still consider it CT, though...

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:02:34 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

Date sent:      	Sun, 04 Oct 1998 17:10:13 -0400
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM

>Hear, hear!  To me Traveller IS in the setting, hard SF and all...  If I
>play Traveller using GURPS,  any of the four T-variants, or whatever, that
>which makes it Traveller is the Imperium, its history, its infrastructure,
>etc., and NOT the rules themselves.  Yes, I suppose one could run a game
>using rules I'd refuse to play, but the point is that, to me, the rules are
>secondary to the mythos.

And I was trying to calm things down. Oh well. To me Traveller is neither 
strictly rules or background. My Greater Magellanic Clouds campaign doesn't 
use the Traveller background, does that mean its not Traveller, of course not, 
nor any of the countless other "grow your own" games out there. Now if I 
(heaven forbide) was to take my homegrown setting and convert it over to 
GURPS:Traveller, is it still Traveller? I think it would be. I have neither setting 
nor rules, but what I do still have is the basic assumptions (speed of commo 
equals speed of travel, 2d starmaps, planetary autonomy, one week per jump, 
hard(ish) science background etc.). To me its these fundimental assumptions 
that go to makeup the distinctive 'feel' of Traveller, its essence if you will. Now I 
happen to think that two of these basic assumptions are TAS membership is 
for life and all characters are not created equal; and that GURPS:Traveller does 
not reflect these well (maybe, I'm still hoping the TAS thing is a simple error). 
So what, this is only MHO, so what should I do? If I want to play G:T I should 
come up with my own house rules, and if I do play G:T thats what I will do (I've 
never been a slave to any rules set).

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 00:41:15 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Re GT

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:47:01 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 03:51:37 -0700
>From: dberry@hooked.net
>Subject: Re: Re GT
>
>At 11:24 AM 10/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>6) Not a background generation system.... a point generation system known
>>for the most tightly pointmongering rules lawyers around anywhere.
>
>It's way too late, and I've had a bitch of a day, so be warned.
>
>I guess everbody who is complaining about the points-based character
>generation in GURPS are complete slaves to the dice in Char gen.  Y'all
>have never fudged a roll to help someone achieve a character they wanted to
>play.  "Gee, sorry Bob, but Starkiller Deathwind has left the Navy with
>Admin-4 and Steward-2.. that's the dice for you.."

Well, no, if you have a copy of Dark Star #1 (they're still available in
electronic format through www.hyperbooks.com, but you have to ask Terry for them
directly by name as they aren't listed), then you have T4 character generation
redone as a point purchase system within the parameters of a career/template
structure plus a few other "improvements". This was done (and it is simply the
most recent of my variants, let alone ghu knows how many other Traveller GMs)
that allows flexibility within the *framework* laid out by the Career structure.

>GURPS (and CORPS) allow a player to create exactly the PC he or she wishes
>to play.  Unlike the Heinlinesque strong-jawed heroes without a flaw I've
>seen generated from Traveller, my players' CORPS characters have
>shortcomings that get played out in the game.  One of my roomates plays an
>ex-Marine with traumatic nightmares.. he depends on his imposing size to
>win fights, because he fezzes when bullets start flying.  Explain to me how
>that comes up in any of Traveller's incarnations.

Personally, FWIW, I find having game designated character traits a pain. And
unrealistic. In my games, yes, you *can* have one arm or be missing an eye, but
it gains you *NO* extra skills.

Does anyone other than me see it as being unrealistic that the most powerful
characters in a GURPS/CORPS game are those that are the most hamstrung by
character or physical flaws?

Is it a law of nature that the only way a 30 (or 40) year old can learn anything
is by losing limbs or gaining inimical enemies? I don't think so.

In Armageddon (see my .sig), there is a point based generation system based on a
career structure like Traveller, and there is also the chance of having
*mishaps* which range from the minor to the moderately nasty. However, mishaps
do *NOT* generally gain any points or extra skills.

So, for example, it is quite possible to reach age 40 and have a good skill base
without a single enemy or physical drawback. This is generally impossible in
games like GURPS or CORPS (and I *really* like CORPS, having done playtesting
for BTRC over the years) *unless* you allow the characters to have a higher than
normal point base.

So, the suggestions that have been bandied around for allowing extra points for
each term should probably be allowed ... and encouraged.

And, perhaps, a 125 point base should be adopted, assuming a one term character
(i.e. age 22). Perhaps with 8+2d points per term (or 4+1d, take your pick) after
the first. These may come with set advantages or disadvantages that cost no
points, effectively. For example, a Scout probably should get an automatic
Patron advantage, especially if they have a Scout *ship* and so on.

>There is an easy solution for the rules-rapist who takes "one-hand" as a
>disad then wants points for each finger; you say "not in my game."

Or, even better, you simply say, "fine ... yes, a one armed, crippled, one eyed
ex-marine with the entire universe hunting him on a 9- is OK ... but there're no
points in it". See how many you get.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 00:46:10 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: TAS

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:47:01 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:28:55
>From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
>Subject: TAS
>
>I personally dont have a problem with MCr1 per year for TAS membership.
>
>At a flat MCr 1 for a membership, the Cr 120 000 worth of high passage
>tickets is just too high a rate of return - even if they are sold at 3/4
>face value, then it's still an 8% rate of return.

>8% rates of return are a lot higher than standard Traveller starship
>mortgages.

So? This is where the influence bit comes in. Traveller starship captains
probably fall all over themselves to carry TAS customers, and discount the
ticket as a result. Why? Because its good business ... and, I suspect, they
probably get free or cut-rate use of the TNS and System Database as a result.

>However, as a quasi-Imperial body, TAS could awards a fixed number of
>annual-fee free life memberships each year to the Imperial Navy, which then
>awards them through it's own processes - I personally think anybody who
>gets a Starburst for Extreme Heroism should get one on leaving the service,
>for example.

And this is generally what has been the assumed case previously. Though it is
quite *specific* in stating that the 1 MCr entry fee allows only a *chance* of
entry ... and a chance of being blackballed.

>The other option is 'Associate TAS membership', which should be cheaper but
>give a lower level of service.

This is, groan, *not* "canon".

>Alternativly, relabel references to TAS as 'The Octagon Society' or
>something - thats the one the stuffy noble types join, and turn TAS into
>something a lot more like a combination of Lonely Planet merged with the
>Better Business Bureau (*).

Again, while it *may* make sense, it is *not* "canon"

>As long as Ditzie has somewhere to get a long lime and lemon, hot strong
>coffee and somewhere to meet that rilly rilly niiiiiice young manly man
>with the foorty-two hunnerd cuuuubic meeeters of ex-eye-en-en-ennnie-en
>acuuuuuuuuummulators, she'll be happy.

This is not the way TAS has ever been played or described.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:54:06 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Non-Traveller Rant

In a message dated 10/4/98 4:06:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, GDWGAMES@aol.com
writes:

<< 
 Sorry -- one of my buttons got pressed.
 
 Loren Wiseman
  >>

It's also one of my buttons too.... I found it very easy to transport my two
cats 2700 miles from NY to Las Vegas. It was easy, and I found it easier to
sleep at night in the cheap hotels (I knew they would hear trouble before I
did, and then wake me). There is NO excuse to abondon pets...I can't stand
people who consider pets disposible like out of style furniture.

Ob. Traveller. I WILL use the Hard Times punishment (the one for not helping
people) on anyone who abuses the fauna in my campaigns....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:03:19 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:47:15 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:11:03 -0400
>From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
>Subject: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
>
>	All the discussion about various game systems has led me to decide to try
>to put down what I, as a fan of Traveller and a buyer of gaming products,
>would like to see in the next edition of Traveller. It has been some time
>since I have seen any of the materials for the proposed T 4.1/T5, so I am
>operating on old info here, and this is also something of a wish list..
>
>1. I would like to see T5 retain the character generation rules of T4 to a
>large part. I liked the number of skills that characters got; it seemed

Yes. T4 character generation rules are OK. However, a semi point-based system
(its easy enough to do, *I* did in "Dark Star #1") would be better.

>like the plan was to step back on that a bit in T5, and I would not like to
>see that. I WOULD like to see two skills go completely away; Recon and Jack
>of all Trades. In the former case, there are other skills that can be used
>for this, such as Observation and Tracking. In the latter case, in a system

Don't care one way or another about Recon. JoT is, however, an integral part of
Traveller. Don't *ever* even *think* about doing away with it!

>with few skills, such as CT, JOT was useful; in T4, more often than not, it
>was superfluous. I see no point in having some skills be default skills,
>and some not, and then giving characters a skill that helps with the
>non-default rolls! and if it helps with any skills the characters don't
>have, then it becomes a real problem, IMO. Oh...I'd like to see the
>Charisma stat restored, as it's useful and makes more sense than having
>your ability to bluff a guard be based on your Social Standing...

Agree about Charisma

>2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
>END and DEX of the character discontinued. I would prefer there to be a
>calculated stat called Hits, based perhaps on 2x END +STR or 3x END, with
>wound effects for reaching the 1/3, 2/3 levels, and then of course death at
>0 Hits.

Agree wholeheartedly.

>3. I believe that the MT task system should be returned to the game. It is
>really not that complicated compared to a lot of games out there, and it
>gives very good results. It also eliminates the need to roll anything
>except 2d6, which, while I did not mind the half-die and the multiple dice,
>IMO complicates the game more than the MT system would.

Well, here we *really* part company. If the T5 system used anything even vaguely
like the MTrav Task System I would never *EVER* buy it. NEVER. I *loathed*
MTrav. And I don't think I'm necessarily in a minority of one, either.

I would suggest that this fierce partisanship was at least part of the reason
why T4 was more like CTrav than MTrav or TNE.

In short, I think that there is the potential to lose too many customers by
going back to something that has for some (and I would say, based on anecdotal
evidence, *many*) such unpleasant memories.

>4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. The one from MT is ok, but
>ditching interrupts and introducing an Initiative roll and allowing people
>to delay until later in the turn will eliminate the need for interrupts.
>The system of armor used in T4 was ok, I would stick with that.

A phase based system would be much better. Probably with combat trained
characters getting a slight advantage, and certainly with some sort of random
factor thrown in to make sure minimaxers don't simply choose their
characteristics to ensure they act on the first possible Phase.

>5. I would use a version of the QSDS, modified to fit the new task system
>and expanded to allow ships of up to 500,000 tons for ship design. The
>concept of the USP could be retained, although some things would need to be
>altered to fit any new ship combat rules. It should definitley be kept
>simple, IMO; I have more fun with QSDS and the ship design rules in GURPS
>Traveller than I have ever had with any version of FF&S. I am not a
>gearhead, and while there is nothing wrong with being one, the basic rules
>should not be aimed at gearheads.

QSDS and anything based on FF&S should be avoided at all costs. OK, there are a
*lot* of gearheads on this list, but not *one* in the group of gamers I know.
Perhaps we are in a minority, I don't know ... but I would suggest that this
list is just as likely to be unrepresentative of reality in this particular area
as my circle of gaming acquaintances *might* be.

We all use CTrav/High Guard or homebrew variations. None of us use MTrav or TNE.
Not one.

>6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
>the TNE era; they should be generic enough that they are not obviously
>aimed at a specific mileau. Obviously every piece of equipment cannot be
>included, but the basics shound range from TL 11 to TL 15.

Sounds reasonable.

>7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. A good
>example is the RPSCS developed by Joseph Walsh and others. perhaps a
>second, abstract High-Guard like system could be included for battles with
>larger ships. I really did not like the system presented in T4, and would
>like something that lets me push a counter around a hexgrid. Mayday-style
>movement would be good.

Agree.

>8. ALIENS. Every other edition of Traveller has made you wait to play
>aliens. This one should not. Racial data for the major races and capsule
>descriptions of their societies; detailed data can come later, but a lot of
>us know that data anyway, and my experience is that new players expect to
>be able to play aliens. Withholding that info for a "supplement" does not
>mean that players are going to play these aliens "right" anyway. So let us
>be able to play them from the start.

Agree, but space constraints may make it impossible. Reality has a way of
rearing its ugly head from time to time!

>9. A few pages devoted to the history and structure of the Imperium,
>perhaps the map of Charted Space, and a map of the Core Subsector circa
>year 0 and the Regina subsector circa 1100. Give the characters a little of
>the setting right in the main book. Settings are important these days, and
>games that don't include them just don't do as well, from what I have seen.

Agree.

>10. As regards the art; we do not need full color plates. I was far happier
>with GURPS Traveller, which had all black-and-white illustrations, than I
>ever was with the glitzy color used in IG's stuff. I don't dislike Chris
>Foss as an artist; I just think it was an unneccesary expense. I would have
>preferred to have the extra pages that those color plates NOT being there
>could have bought.

I *LOATHE* ... no, that's too kind and gentle a word ... I think Foss is an
untalented clot who couldn't draw his way out of a wet paper bag with a map,
compass, a GCA controller.

I bought T4 *DESPITE* Foss.

I agree that Gurps Traveller has much better art! And I agree that colour is
*not* necessary ... however, look at the cover art for "Behind the Claw" on the
GURPS site! Its pretty damn good!

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:08:20 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

In a message dated 10/4/98 1:39:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:

<< How many "scruffy nerf-herders" do *you* know who can ante up 1 MCr *per
year*
 for, effectively, nothing much at all?
 
 I know *I* don't know any (of course, I don't know any nerf-herders at all
...
 but you get the idea) ...
  >>

True, but I was just trying to justify TAS membership. I have a gut feeling
that the GT errata will change TAS membership back to a ONE TIME FEE (IMNSHO).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:01:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Taking one a group of Vargr partnered with well-trained dogs with the
>> group considering itself a "pack" could be a nightmare.
>
> You're nasty to PCs aren't you.  One Vargr with a well-trained pack
> would be bad enough.
>
> To push it one step further . . .
>
> A clairvoyant and telepathic Vargr with a pack or well-trained dogs.
>
> Muwahaha  ;-)
>
> There is a great novel with telepathic wolves.
> Vernor Vinge, Fire on the Deep, IIRC.  The wolves are only intelligent in
> packs of 3-6, and they all see through each others eyes.

They aren't "quite" wolves. And the idea is that they are *individuals*
with multiple bodies. Each body contributes to the personality as well
as to everything else. So individuals aren't *quite* immortal. Kill the
right body and the "person" will undergo a major change when the
replacement is added.

They make *nasty* fighter pilots, because you have an entire
squadron(?) that *literally* co-ordinates as well as the fingers on a
hand! 

They *are* vulnerable to jamming their comm links (they require *high*
bandwidth audio links to maintain the "link". But since they need to
run spread spectrum *anyway*, they aren't terribly vulnerable to this.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:08:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

In mail you write:

>> > Taking one a group of Vargr partnered with well-trained dogs with the
>> > group considering itself a "pack" could be a nightmare.
>> 
>> You're nasty to PCs aren't you.  One Vargr with a well-trained pack
>> would be bad enough.
>> 
>> To push it one step further . . .
>> 
>> A clairvoyant and telepathic Vargr with a pack or well-trained dogs.
>> 
>> Muwahaha  ;-)
>> 
>> There is a great novel with telepathic wolves.
>> Vernor Vinge, Fire on the Deep, IIRC.  The wolves are only intelligent in
>> packs of 3-6, and they all see through each others eyes.
>
> The Tines weren't telepathic.  They 'networked' with ultrasound.  Great 
> concept for a player race, though...

The tines alsao show up in one other story by Vinge. It's set on a
planet just inside the slow zone.

Tines *would* be a neat addition to Traveller. And a Tine/Hiver
alliance would be scary. The Hivers might be able to talk the Tines
into "designing" individuals again. 

That "harmless" ambassador and his staff (possibly as many as a dozen
"persons") may be able to rearrange into a crack espionage or combat
team simply by reconfiguring their comm links. 

Luckily, it takes *very* unusual circumstances to be able to handle
that sort of multiple personality. And Tines would find it distasteful
for reasons obvious to anyone who has read "A Fire Upon the Deep". 

Tine character generation would be interesting. I'd say that you
generate UPPs for each body, with some extra "mental" characteristics.
And you have rules for how to combine the "mental" characteristics into
that of the "person". 

Adding and losing bodies would affect the person, as would damage to
bodies.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #884
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Sunday, October 4 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 885



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: TAS
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
Re: GT: Alien Races 1
Request:  Description of Music Act
Re: Dice Conversion chart
Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Question
Re: TAS
Re: What I would like to see in T5
Re: T5 (reply)
Re GURPS
Re: FF&S2 Errata
Re: Transonders and computers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:52:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> If I had to face a pack, I'd want to *be* part of another pack. A
>> friend had a wolf they'd rescued from some jerks who had half-killed
>> her with mistreatment. The family, and a few selected friends like me
>> were her "pack".
>> 
>> Some idiots jumped his wife while she was walking Tasha. His wife only
>> had to deal with the ones Tasha didn't go after. And while the cops
>> didn't know that she was a wolf, they didn't have any problem with a
>> "dog" that attacked to defend her owner.
>
> Ye ghods!! Idiots is right! WHO in their right minds would mess with someone
> walking a wolf? It's not like they look like anything _but_ a wolf or a 
> really big dog.

Wolves aren't *that* big. A lot of folks figured she was some sort of
cross involving a husky or german sheperd.

> The only problem with wolves is you gotta make sure they remember
> you're alpha, and _they're_ omega all the time...dogs don't challenge
> nearly as often, and intra-pack hierarchy is far less important. Your
> friends don't want to add a new friend to the pack, and have Tasha
> decide she's _tired_ of being on the bottom, that's a spot for the
> newbie... sadly we get the idiots around here who think it'd be cool
> to have a wolf for a pet without realizing in the slightest what
> they're getting into.

Alas, Tasha is no more, she was pretty old and her arthritis got bad enough
that she had to put to sleep. :-(

And considering that several of us were willing to "play" (wrestle,
etc) with her, she got to win fairly often. It helps to know how to say
"I give" in wolf (lay on your back throat exposed). 

Mostly she was careful in the friendly matches. I have a scar on my arm
from one of her toenails, but I consider that *my* fault. (And I'm not
gonna answer any questions about what happens when the moon is full! :-)

> Of course, _most_ of these idiots shouldn't be allowed to own hamsters, much
> less a dog...

Amen!

> obTrav...how _do_ Vargr handle pack relations, particularly when the pack
> includes humans who often just 'don't get it' about who is who?

> Biting, fighting, slapping, dozens contests?

I suspect that humans would "get it" quickly enough. Getting knocked to
the deck, and having bared teeth at your throat tends to get the
message across. 

And it's not as if humans *don't* play dominance games inside small
groups. We *do* have alphas and pecking orders. We just tryt to pretend
we don't.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:30:38 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: TAS

Phillip McGregor wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:47:01 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:28:55
> >From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> >Subject: TAS
> >
> >I personally dont have a problem with MCr1 per year for TAS membership.
> >
> >At a flat MCr 1 for a membership, the Cr 120 000 worth of high passage
> >tickets is just too high a rate of return - even if they are sold at 3/4
> >face value, then it's still an 8% rate of return.
> 
> >8% rates of return are a lot higher than standard Traveller starship
> >mortgages.
> 
And, IMHO, I just don't see that membership in the TAS is worth Cr
904,000 per year net (i.e., after collecting your Cr 96,000 worth of
middle passages referred to on page 35 of G:T).  That's (give or take a
bit) the equivalent of three months payment per year on a Type-A Free
Trader.

> So? This is where the influence bit comes in. Traveller starship captains
> probably fall all over themselves to carry TAS customers, and discount the
> ticket as a result. Why? Because its good business ... and, I suspect, they
> probably get free or cut-rate use of the TNS and System Database as a result.
> 
> >However, as a quasi-Imperial body, TAS could awards a fixed number of
> >annual-fee free life memberships each year to the Imperial Navy, which then
> >awards them through it's own processes - I personally think anybody who
> >gets a Starburst for Extreme Heroism should get one on leaving the service,
> >for example.
> 
> And this is generally what has been the assumed case previously. Though it is
> quite *specific* in stating that the 1 MCr entry fee allows only a *chance* of
> entry ... and a chance of being blackballed.
> 
I get the mental image of the TAS board considering a member's
application, and someone saying, "You know, this sophont isn't all
_that_ qualified, when you consider that we're running a Cr 400,000
deficit at the branch at which he/she/it applied...."  Presto! 
Blackballed due to fiscal constraints on the TAS, and your MCr 1 fee is,
sadly, an application fee, and not refundable.

> >The other option is 'Associate TAS membership', which should be cheaper but
> >give a lower level of service.
> 
> This is, groan, *not* "canon".
> 
> >Alternativly, relabel references to TAS as 'The Octagon Society' or
> >something - thats the one the stuffy noble types join, and turn TAS into
> >something a lot more like a combination of Lonely Planet merged with the
> >Better Business Bureau (*).
> 
> Again, while it *may* make sense, it is *not* "canon"
> 
Fine.  However, a newer organization with similar goals and benefits
(say, "The Imperial Travellerati") could offer similar benefits for less
(less prestige, but less cash needed).  In other words, if you don't
like the MCr 1 per year of G:T's TAS, keep the TAS as described, but
introduce a competitor.  Nothing non-canon about new companies....

<<snip>>

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:24:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

In mail you write:

> Kurt Feltenberger wrote:
>>
>> At 10:34 PM 10/2/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>> Imagine your players coming across a strange world, deep in space.
>>> Their first thought on seeing the sensors readings was it must be
>>> the work of the Ancients - who else could have created it. Their
>>> second thought was nobody - not even the Ancients, would have _any_
>>> reason to create it.

>>> If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc,
>>> rotating on the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the
>>> back of a giant turtle (sex unknown).

>>> Afterall given that the last GURPS product released before GURPS
>>> Traveller was GURPS Discworld this combination is logical ;0

> Nah, not silly.  I'm currently running a Traveller/Morrow Project
> crossover...

> You could always go with a "Bunnies & Burrows"/Vargr crossover....  Yum!

No, use Albedo instead. That gives you the warlike "bunnies", but also
other "animals". And the history up thru the last issue I read (several
years back) *would* fit some weirdness on Grandfather's part.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:44:08 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT: Alien Races 1

>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:07:16 -0700
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: GT: Alien Races 1
>
>Sat, 3 Oct 1998 02:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
>"Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
>
>>IIRC, GURPS is a simple system. I guess it won't be too hard to create
>>character generation rules, especially not if the meaning of the
>>advantages/disadvantages are easy to understand ('Huge size', 'Extra
>>limbs'). Is this the case?
>
>Generally.  I can't think of any ones that you would have at
>least some idea about, but I can't guarantee there aren't any.

Make that  "I can't think of any ones that you _wouldn't_ have at
least some idea about."

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:48:39 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Request:  Description of Music Act

On one of the many Traveller Web sites, there was a New Era news item
about a concert by an act going by the name of Dulinor and [I forget].

Does anyone in here have the URL for that site (I forgot to bookmark it
~hangs head in shame~.)

Thanks in advance.

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:36:32 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Dice Conversion chart

At 12:13 4/10/98 -0400, Allen Shock wrote:
>Could someone who is better with math than me do something that might help
>not only me and a lot?
>Basically, what I need is a simple chart for converting CT's 2-12 range and
>the target numbers such as
>7+, 9+ etc. and T4's system, which basically flip-flops that, and GURPS 3d6
>3-18 scale.

Here's a quickie for GURPS, CT, MT and TNE. I don't know enough about T4's
(besides I'm too lazy to do it right now - maybe later)

Target Number			Modifier
GURPS	CT	MT		GURPS	TNE
3				+8	-4
4	12+	2-		+6	-3
5				+4	-2 (Easy)
6	11+	3-		+2	-1 (Average)
7	10+	4-		+0	+0 (Difficult)
8	9+	5-		-2	+1 (Formidible)
9				-4	+2 (Impossible)
10	8+	6-		-6	+3
11	7+	7-		-8	+4
12	6+	8-		
13	5+	9-		
14	4+	10-		
15				
16+	3+	11-		

The TNE - GURPS table assumes that the GURPS skill levels will lie in a
similar range to TNE assets. If this is not the case, then the penalties
should probably be about 50% bigger (-4 becomes -6).

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:08:05 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav- my own nits

At 22:25 3/10/98 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>On 10/03/98 at 10:22 PM,  DustyLV769@aol.com said:
>
>><< I think a TNE task system where you +/- 4 for
>> each level above or below Difficult is near about perfect. >>
>
>>With the difference of suceeding on a low roll or a high one, this is
>>essentially the MT/DGP system...
>
>Pretty close isn't it, I use 7 task levels, though.  ;-> I said I
>fell in love with it.  I also said I changed it and liked rolling
>low, so that's what I did.  With slight modifications it works with
>3d6 (+/- 3), 2d6 (+/- 2), can be connected with FUDGE description
>labels for skills, and...to me...just feels right.  ;->

BTW I noticed a while back (when TNE came out in fact) that on a 3d6 system
like GURPS (or Hero) +/-2 either halves your chance of success, or halves
your chance of failure (roughly speaking), depending on which is under 50%.
This means that as long as you don't let skill levels in GURPS get over 16
too often you can treat a +/-2 as being the same as a +/-diff mod from TNE.

As fas as I'm concerned this is all purely theoretical, as the one time I
contemplated using GRUPS to run a Sci-fi game I decided that by the time
I'd fixed everything I don't like about GURPS as a Sci-fi game I would've
been better spending the time writing stuff for another system (say TNE :)

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:00:48 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> > You could always go with a "Bunnies & Burrows"/Vargr crossover....  Yum!
> 
> No, use Albedo instead. That gives you the warlike "bunnies", but also
> other "animals". And the history up thru the last issue I read (several
> years back) *would* fit some weirdness on Grandfather's part.
> 
Albedo would probably give a more playable background, but "Bunnies &
Burrows" is already GURPS, while Albedo is, AFAIK, not.

If you want a _deeply unpleasant_ GURPS sourcebook for a Traveller
crossover, try either "CthulhuPunk" or "War Against the Chtorr" for some
_serious_ PC nightmares....

(BTW, so far as the title of this e-mail thread is concerned, I'm
_already_ playing in what could be considered a Traveller/Illuminati
crossover, with two of my three PCs having been recruited into a Knights
Templar successor organization.)

> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

- -- 
- ------
|    |  Reply to wombat_at_premier_dot_net
|JOLT|
|COLA|  Visit my Web site at:
|    |
- ------  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:03:56 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: re: GURPS Traveller

>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:33:05 +0100
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>

>>Also, it seems that in addition to 'Behind the Claw', 'Aliens vol.I' is
>>already in production, or has been accepted at any rate.
>
>Well, I know that there is a complete manuscript for Aliens Vol 1 for T4
>which got canned when IG gave up the ghost.... perhaps this is the same
>beast?

No, it is being writen from scratch.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:27:27 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Question

> Iain Banks even uses CREW (coherent radiation emission weapon).   Can
> anyone tell me what one is?

Its, IIRC, something like a LASER...

Legate Legion, Militant Jewish Terrorist
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

We are Microsoft of Borg.  Your distinctive capabilities will be adapted to
service us.  Resistance is futile.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:16:55
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: TAS

>From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
>Subject: Re: TAS
>
>On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:47:01 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>8% rates of return are a lot higher than standard Traveller starship
>>mortgages.
>
>So? This is where the influence bit comes in. Traveller starship captains
>probably fall all over themselves to carry TAS customers, and discount the
>ticket as a result. Why? Because its good business ... and, I suspect, they
>probably get free or cut-rate use of the TNS and System Database as a result.

An 8% rate of return is approximatly double the rate paid on standard
starship mortgages. If you assume a basic rate of interest of 2%, plus a
risk premium of 2% for lending on starships (misjumps if nothing else add a
risk premium), then you get a rock solid investment in a TAS membership
earning four times the basic rate of interest.

>
>>However, as a quasi-Imperial body, TAS could awards a fixed number of
>>annual-fee free life memberships each year to the Imperial Navy, which then
>>awards them through it's own processes - I personally think anybody who
>>gets a Starburst for Extreme Heroism should get one on leaving the service,
>>for example.
>
>And this is generally what has been the assumed case previously. Though it is
>quite *specific* in stating that the 1 MCr entry fee allows only a
*chance* of
>entry ... and a chance of being blackballed.

And if I remember correctly, if you do get blackballed, they give you your
megacredit back. It is still an incredibly high rate of return on your
investment. This does *not* make economic sense.

>
>>The other option is 'Associate TAS membership', which should be cheaper but
>>give a lower level of service.
>
>This is, groan, *not* "canon".

It isnt not-canon either. I dare say the entirety of canon dealing with TAS
would be about four A4 sheets, once you take out duplication of common
knowledge. I would argue there is plenty of grey areas that referees can
exploit.

Heck, maybe 'associate TAS membership' is a local variation - a mere letter
of introduction from your local TAS manager, which may or may not be
accepted by any other TAS office.

>
>>Alternativly, relabel references to TAS as 'The Octagon Society' or
>>something - thats the one the stuffy noble types join, and turn TAS into
>>something a lot more like a combination of Lonely Planet merged with the
>>Better Business Bureau (*).
>
>Again, while it *may* make sense, it is *not* "canon"

*shrug* As far as economics goes, Traveller canon has some major issues.
Almost as many as Traveller rules, in fact.

>
>>As long as Ditzie has somewhere to get a long lime and lemon, hot strong
>>coffee and somewhere to meet that rilly rilly niiiiiice young manly man
>>with the foorty-two hunnerd cuuuubic meeeters of ex-eye-en-en-ennnie-en
>>acuuuuuuuuummulators, she'll be happy.
>
>This is not the way TAS has ever been played or described.

*raises eyebrows* It isnt ? TAS isnt a gentlemans club - a place for
itinerant traders to do business with local corporate interests ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:31:41 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5

Allen Shock wrote:

<snip>
>4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. The one from MT is ok,
>but ditching interrupts and introducing an Initiative roll and allowing

>people to delay until later in the turn will eliminate the need for
interrupts.
>The system of armor used in T4 was ok, I would stick with that.

I disagree here, the MT combat system is one thing that I have discarded
and would like to keep it that way.  I used a variant of striker for my
combat system.

I agree with 1. (T4 CharGen) and 3. (MT task system)

>5. I would use a version of the QSDS, modified to fit the new task
system
>and expanded to allow ships of up to 500,000 tons for ship design. The
>concept of the USP could be retained, although some things would need
to be
>altered to fit any new ship combat rules. It should definitley be kept
>simple, IMO; I have more fun with QSDS and the ship design rules in
GURPS
>Traveller than I have ever had with any version of FF&S. I am not a
>gearhead, and while there is nothing wrong with being one, the basic
rules
>should not be aimed at gearheads.

these items will HAVE to be based on the new version of FF&S and the
ship combat system so that we don't end up with the same problem as
QSDS.

I agree with 6. (equipment)

>7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. A good
>example is the RPSCS developed by Joseph Walsh and others. perhaps a
>second, abstract High-Guard like system could be included for battles
with
>larger ships. I really did not like the system presented in T4, and
would
>like something that lets me push a counter around a hexgrid.
Mayday-style
>movement would be good.

there is a good ship combat system being worked on by Bruce M. that we
hope will be ready and accepted as part of the basic T5

8. (Aliens)  I agree, there should be one page discriptions and mods for
Imperialized aliens (i.e. those that grew up in the Imperium) Add on
Alien modules would then go deeper into the culture and extra-imperial
CharGen.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:28:03 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: T5 (reply)

> Yes. T4 character generation rules are OK. However, a semi point-based
system
> (its easy enough to do, *I* did in "Dark Star #1") would be better.

I wouldn't mind seeing that, but do not have access to ordering from
Hyperbooks
 
> >3. I believe that the MT task system should be returned to the game. It
is
> >really not that complicated compared to a lot of games out there, and it
> >gives very good results. It also eliminates the need to roll anything
> >except 2d6, which, while I did not mind the half-die and the multiple
dice,
> >IMO complicates the game more than the MT system would.
> 
> Well, here we *really* part company. If the T5 system used anything even
vaguely
> like the MTrav Task System I would never *EVER* buy it. NEVER. I
*loathed*
> MTrav. And I don't think I'm necessarily in a minority of one, either.

Ok...I can deal with that. Myself, I had no problems with it, but something
else could be done, as long as it:
	1.) Used 2d6 (or maybe 3d6) only
	2.) Was based on fixed levels of difficulty, with a target number
associated with it. Ideally you roll a certain number on 2d6 and have
modifiers that apply to the target number OR to the overall difficulty
level in perhaps a stat + skill + roll method, although of course some will
argue about the influence of stats..maybe an aptitude number for each stat
of say STAT/5. This is somewhat LIKE the MT system, but you could write it
out clearer and simplify the process considerably. So it would be Aptitude
+ Skill + Die roll to equal or beat a certain number.
 
> >5. I would use a version of the QSDS, modified to fit the new task
system
> >and expanded to allow ships of up to 500,000 tons for ship design. The
> >concept of the USP could be retained, although some things would need to
be
> >altered to fit any new ship combat rules. It should definitley be kept
> >simple, IMO; I have more fun with QSDS and the ship design rules in
GURPS
> >Traveller than I have ever had with any version of FF&S. I am not a
> >gearhead, and while there is nothing wrong with being one, the basic
rules
> >should not be aimed at gearheads.
> 
> QSDS and anything based on FF&S should be avoided at all costs. OK, there
are a
> *lot* of gearheads on this list, but not *one* in the group of gamers I
know.
> Perhaps we are in a minority, I don't know ... but I would suggest that
this
> list is just as likely to be unrepresentative of reality in this
particular area
> as my circle of gaming acquaintances *might* be.

I didn't say FF&S should be used, but there are certain things, like
sensors, that are not accounted for in High Guard. Add those and do HG
versions of some of the options that HAVE been created, and I would have no
problem with High Guard ship construction. But see below for my comments
about space combat...
 
> >6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
> >the TNE era; they should be generic enough that they are not obviously
> >aimed at a specific mileau. Obviously every piece of equipment cannot be
> >included, but the basics shound range from TL 11 to TL 15.

And obviously have more primtive equipment in there too.

> >7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. A good
> >example is the RPSCS developed by Joseph Walsh and others. perhaps a
> >second, abstract High-Guard like system could be included for battles
with
> >larger ships. I really did not like the system presented in T4, and
would
> >like something that lets me push a counter around a hexgrid.
Mayday-style
> >movement would be good.

I really don't like High Guard ship combat...WAY too abstract. Whatever
else came out of TNE, Brilliant Lances was a great ship combat game. RPSCS
is a great "simplified" game that allows for tactical combat without
bogging down. This is what I would like to see.

 
> I agree that Gurps Traveller has much better art! And I agree that colour
is
> *not* necessary ... however, look at the cover art for "Behind the Claw"
on the
> GURPS site! Its pretty damn good!

Cover art is usually in color :) (well, except for Noir...) I was referring
to interior art

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:47:19 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re GURPS

William F. Hostman wrote:

>Again, this seems to be a failing amongst most die-hard GURPS fans...
most
>of them "Clone" their characters, having a pre-set pick of certain
>advantages and disadvantages they take, and never do they vary this
core.
>This has been endemic in every GURPS game I've encountered.

Some of these people my be like me and refuse to or are unable to play
most disadvantages.  Therefore most of my characters have simular sets
of disadvantages in games that have such.  BTW, I seldom play games with
a point system, prefering Traveler(mod MT, TNE, or T4) or RQ

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:01:01 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Errata

At 12:16 pm 9/29/98 +0200, you wrote:
>I finally own 'Fire, fusion and steel'. Thanks to David Smart for
taking
>the trouble of sending it and 'Aliens archive' to me.
>
>The volume needs an errata, but I knew that. The problem is, I have
>deleted the messages which contained information on where to find
it.
>Could anyone please give me the URL?

	I have *some* errata for the TNE version: First Printing to Second
Printing Upgrade, 2nd Printing Errata, and misc errata. They're under
rules.

	Isn't it pathetic I don't even have the errata for the book I
cowrote, though? They're out there; I've just been so swamped with
Reality (tm) I haven't even looked at my site in several months. I'm
back on the job, now ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:48:14 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

At 04:07 pm 9/30/98 +0000, you wrote:
>PGP can and has been 'broken'.  Mr. Zimmerman has written about the
>'breakability' of PGP.  It is called 'Pretty Good Privacy' after all
not
>'Perfect Privacy'.  Check the crypto news groups for various
ways/methods .
>The NSA can already break PGP it just takes time if the users are
very
>carefull.  If they are sloppy it gets easier with each additional
message

	A single, simple, 384-bit key has been broken ...

"If all the personal computers in the world - ~260 million computers
- - were put to work on a single PGP-encrypted message, it would still
take an estimated 12 million times the age of the universe, on
average, to break a single message."
- -- William Crowell, Deputy Director of the National Security Agency,
March 1997


>using the same encode key.  Also the NSA has the advantage of having
working
>copies of the incryption software to decompile and analize for
pattern
>recognition.  The key would be decyphered one character at a time as
'hits'

	That's pretty meaningless--the security of PGP doesn't lie in a
"secret" algorithm. In fact, it's considered secure BECAUSE the
algorithms are publicly known, and have been analyzed and attacked by
a wide variety of experts who have brought different viewpoints to
bear.

>occured.  If even a single 'clear phrase' were know the time
required would
>drop dramaticly and any good inteligence agency would soon learn
what key

	Actually, the encryption methods used in PGP are considered to be
fairly resistant to "known-plaintext" attacks. Furthermore, PGP
generates a new message key for each message.

>phrases to watch for in the messages of a particular group od
comunication.
>If a clear text copy of a message were captured then getting the key
will be
>almost automatic if the key is not changed.  That is why the
military uses

	Nope. You can take a plaintext and cryptotext message, and it gives
you almost no insight into the public/private keypair. At MOST you
might figure out the session key--which is discarded and generated
anew for each message.

	Mind you, I have *never* maintained (except as a matter of
hyperbole) that any transponder system was foolproof/tamperproof. But
just because it isn't doesn't make it worthless. Airbags aren't
foolproof ... but quite a few people are alive today because of a
flawed system. It's your Traveller universe, you choose. The OFFICIAL
universe has as a part of the background a near-tamperproof system of
identifying ships, like it or lump it. In your universe, you make the
background assumptions you need to justify how you want it to work.
Do you want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be able to forge impeccable
credentials? Or do you want your players to really have to work for
everything. *I* can very easily justify a strong system. If a player
wanted to try to break it, they're free to do so ... but the odds are
low. Not nil, low. 

	I like to make them work for everything. No "hack'n'slash" in space,
they'd better think things through and be prepared for the
consequences. It also opens up MORE gaming possibilities.
Transponders are "black boxes" built at TL 15 (or maybe 16 ...) at
select locations throughout the Imperium, and shipped "blank" to
various shipyards for installation and imprinting. Gee, can anybody
think of some fun adventure ideas there?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #885
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 886



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Breaking Encryption 
Re: Non-Traveller Rant
re: Transponders
Re: GURPS Traveller Questions
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: Re GURPS
Re: firearms safeguards in the future
Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re GURPS Players
Re CREW
re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...... 
Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Question 
Re: Breaking Encryption 
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:05:35 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption 

At 12:28 am 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>> > That's the thing.  Is the NSA gonna wanna spend a month or two
to decrypt
>> > messages from my girlfriend to me?
>> 
>> No, but the NSA wouldn't care about your love letters even if you
sent
>> them in the clear, right? And if nobody cares enough about it to
bother
>> trying to read it anyway, what's the point in encrypting it at
all?

	Why encrypt anything if you don't have something to hide? Why seal
your envelopes before you mail your letters? Why lock your front
door? Just make it easy for the NSA ... only encrypt when you're
committing a crime, so they KNOW something is up when encrypted
messages start coming from you.

"Why should you care if you have nothing to hide?"
- -- J. Edgar Hoover

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:57:27 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Non-Traveller Rant

At 06:56 pm 10/4/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Sethkimmel@aol.com quoted dberry@hooked.net who wrote:
>
>> People really suck....
>
>Off topic Rant
>
><Rant>
>I reserve a special loathing for people who dump surplus puppies and
kittens
>in the country, in the misguided belief that they will be "adopted"
by some
>kind-hearted rural family. What usually happens is they get run over
by a car
>in short order, or (worse) they end up lunch for a fox or coyote.
Those that
>do not lead a hellish (and short) life as part of the country food
chain. In

	It gets worse--one of the kittens I adopted at a recent rescue fair
had been named "DC" by the shelter staff ... for "Dog Chow."  Seems
the "owner" had literally been feeding the entire litter to his dogs.
DC was the only one left ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:52:51 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re: Transponders

At 02:01 pm 9/29/98 +0000, you wrote:
>At 01:37 AM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>>> If you can turn it off outside Imperial territory, the switch
exists
>>> when you are in Impie territory. Therefore you can meet a ship
>>> with it's transponder turned off, or be in a situation where you
>>> suspect the existance of an undetected ship with an off
transponder,
>>> and legally turn your transponder off yourself while running for
>>> safer space inside the Imperium.
>>
>>You (amongst others) make a quite convincing argument for the mute
switch
>>being on all ships. : ) I'm game.
>>
>>Gary
>>
>
>
>I'm afraid that I must aggree for several reasons.  If you look at
modern
>aviation practices 'transponders' are designed to add a ident signal
to
>incoming radar signals for tracking purposes.  The concept of
'fingur
>printing' space ships to counter piracy is asinine.  All a pirate
has to do
>is have a legal ship and one without any traansponder and he is
untracable.

	Except that he stands out like a sore thumb anytime he enters
"normal" space. The mute switch is ONLY intended to be used in
emergency or hostile situations ... Try approaching the US Airspace
Defense Identification Zone without an active transponder or radio
response and see what it gets you (how close do you like being to
interceptors ... hint: an F-16 waggling his wings means "Follow me to
the nearest base where we're going to have a long talk, or my wingman
behind you will get to paint a silhouette on his side"). Try flying
through any controlled airspace without a transponder. 

	For that matter, try driving around town with no license plate on
your car. Or even just one with an expired registration sticker (from
experience ... fortunately, the current sticker was in my glovebox).
The cops may take a while to notice (6 months, in my case), but then
there's no automated system to automatically query every car for
registration.

>Also no sane person would be a pasenger on a ship that contiuiosly
screamed
>'here I am' in pirate infested space or unexplored space.  Also no
military

	That's why there's a mute switch ...

>would tolerate the ability to exactly track the moments of their war
ships
>just as the exact location of our SBNs is a closely gaurded secret.
In

	Which is why military transponders have additional settings--you can
simply ID yourself as a valid IN ship without giving your identity
away (hence making it difficult to do exact tracking from system to
system). As for insystem tracking ... I'll simply defer to the sensor
gurus.

>short this level of 'big brotherism' is counter productive to the
'prime
>directive' of the Impire which is the free fow of trade and the
maintanence
>of said free trade.

	And how free is the flow of trade if ships can be easily pirated, or
skip out on loans, etc.? Having a higher level of security is
BENEFICIAL to free flow of trade ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:28:57 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Questions

>From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@hex.net>
>Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Questions
...
>Well doesn't crumble their cookies then. It looks like they were 
>unable/unwilling to play "Monty, Monty, Let make a Deal" with Roger Sanger
>who 
>last I heard had the rights to the Digest Group Publications stuff including 
>"Vilani and Vargr" . Sounds like a cranial rectal inversion on all parties
>part.

  FWIW, everything I'd heard on the 2300 AD mailing list (which, having _no_
support is a bit more militant on this subject) indicated that Mr. Sanger is
an extremely difficult individual to deal with, and that productive negotiations
were improbable at best.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:28:59 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
...
>They aren't "quite" wolves. And the idea is that they are *individuals*
>with multiple bodies. Each body contributes to the personality as well
>as to everything else. So individuals aren't *quite* immortal. Kill the
>right body and the "person" will undergo a major change when the
>replacement is added.
>
>They make *nasty* fighter pilots, because you have an entire
>squadron(?) that *literally* co-ordinates as well as the fingers on a
>hand! 

  Actually, the rules on telepathic (presumably) central direction for fighter
pilots in Traveller (A:4) aren't terribly generous, and still difficult to
justify even for Zho pilots who could all be telepathic themselves (ship tactics
levels for the controller are conveyed as tactical skill to each of the pilots.)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:08:41 -0700
From: Joe Pettit <jpettit@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller's Aid Society

>
>
> << How many "scruffy nerf-herders" do *you* know who can ante up 1 MCr *per
> year*
>  for, effectively, nothing much at all?
>
>  I know *I* don't know any (of course, I don't know any nerf-herders at all
> ...
>  but you get the idea) ...
>   >>
>
> True, but I was just trying to justify TAS membership. I have a gut feeling
> that the GT errata will change TAS membership back to a ONE TIME FEE (IMNSHO).

IIRC you could get TAS membership as a mustering out benefit or something.  At 1
Mcr/year that's one HELL of a white elephant.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:39:25 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

At 08:06 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Andrew wrote:
<Snip>...
>And I was trying to calm things down. ...To me its these fundimental
assumptions 
>that go to makeup the distinctive 'feel' of Traveller, its essence if you
will. ...

Wow - this is getting WAY too philosophical!  I agree and stand corrected.
I tend to focus on the mythos, but I guess there IS a basic rules-feel -
assumptions, etc. - that I don't (didn't) consider...  It says something
about the rules/mythos/etc. that this sort of discussion even comes up...
I wonder if the folks over on the  D&D list get into this sort of thing?  ;-)



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 98 22:57:37 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Re GURPS

On 10/04/98 at 09:47 PM,  Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU> said:

>Some of these people my be like me and refuse to or are unable to
>play most disadvantages.  Therefore most of my characters have
>simular sets of disadvantages in games that have such.  BTW, I seldom
>play games with a point system, prefering Traveler(mod MT, TNE, or
>T4) or RQ

I'm all for people playing "interesting" characters.  Pick a
disadvantage or whatever and play it.  You shouldn't have to get
paid for it.

But, whatever floats your boat!!

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:49:22 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: firearms safeguards in the future

  It's a very limited case, but by installing psionic switches the
Thought Police and similar Zho groups (Guards, naval officers) would
largely not have to worry about unauthorized weapon use - not that 
it's a big issue except where children and Imperials are concerned.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:43:15 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller" 

Since the TML has become a forum for opinions recently ... (woo hoo, another
public outpouring to break up the dull monotony of life and indulge in
self-important pontification!!!)

[sny-ip!]

>For me (and my players), we *welcome* the Rebellion.  It gives them a
chance
>to do something *right* for a change, something that makes a *difference*.


[sny-ip!]

Whew! And I thought I was the only one in the world that liked the
Rebellion! IMO, the best thing about the 3rd Imperium was the way it fell
apart (from my standpoint as a referee). Of course, MegaTraveller was my
first real exposure to the "official" Traveller setting, so there is a
heapin' helping of the first-love syndrome there.

I sure wished they could have come up with a better way than Virus to end it
though. *That* seemed to me to be one big cop-out. I would much preferred to
have a Hard Times-style slow burnout and another Long Night. It seems to me
that you could get rid of Virus completely and have virtually the same
intersteller situation as presented in TNE by just using a Hard Times-esque
collapse. Replace vampire ships with ruthless TED raider fleets, and
thereyago.

Hated HEPLARs though ...

Oh, and for those taking surveys:

I'll buy all the G:T stuff. I'll read it for fun, and probably never use it
except as background material (Rebellion Forever!!! :-)

I used to like GURPS, but I use FUDGE for everything now. I just had too
many albino, one-eyed, lame midgets in my games (or the ever-famous
"military brat" with a 14 IQ and 1/2 point in 80 skills). Plus I hate
dealing with big 'ol numbers during gameplay ... "Okay, so you rolled 6d6
and got 22. Multiply that by 500, then subtract the 2,450 DR of the target
(after applying the armor divisor of (10). Now roll for location ... blah
blah blah."

Currently I'm not even running Traveller, although I did recently find copy
of DGPs _World Builder's Handbook_ for $1.95 and wept for joy like a little
girl while doing a little dance, so I guess I'm still part of the club (or m
aybe I'm just weird).

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:57:27 -0700
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

Allen Shock wrote:

>         1. I would like to see T5 retain the character generation rules of T4 to a
> large part. I liked the number of skills that characters got; it seemed
> like the plan was to step back on that a bit in T5, and I would not like to
> see that. I WOULD like to see two skills go completely away; Recon and Jack
> of all Trades.

Just for the record, I've always liked the skills in Traveller, and JOT is unique to
Traveller.  I don't want to see it go away any more than I want Traveller to use
anything else other than six sided dice.

I remember when I was a freshman in college.  I spyed a girl with a sheet of paper in
front of my in micro-economics.  On the sheet, I saw some statistics.

Then, I noticed that one of the stats read:  JOT-2

So, I leaned up over her shoulder, not knowing this girl from Adam, saying, "So, you
play Traveller?"

I'm a romanitc.  I want the old Traveller.  I think T4 principles can be applied to
CT design philosophy to make the best Traveller system ever.  We just haven't seen
that animal yet.


> 2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
> END and DEX of the character discontinued. I would prefer there to be a
> calculated stat called Hits, based perhaps on 2x END +STR or 3x END, with
> wound effects for reaching the 1/3, 2/3 levels, and then of course death at
> 0 Hits.

Bite you tongue!  Traveller's use of this is genius.  With one stat, you not only
damage a character, but you reduce his ability to act with his skills.

This is much better than a two step process where you have another stat, like D&D's
hit points, that you have to monitor, then take negatives from as you loose hit
points.

Traveller does it all in one, swift, incredible move.

Keep this.


> 3. I believe that the MT task system should be returned to the game. I

Again, the MT task system is a good one.  I've always liked it, but T4's was better
(mechanic-wise, although they've got to fix the bugs--which can be fixed easily).

> 4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. The one from MT is ok, but
> ditching interrupts and introducing an Initiative roll and allowing people
> to delay until later in the turn will eliminate the need for interrupts.

I agree with the interrupt part.  I never liked, completely understood, or used them
when I used MT.

> The system of armor used in T4 was ok, I would stick with that.

T4's armor system was the best I've seen in any Traveller edition.

> 5. I would use a version of the QSDS, modified to fit the new task system
> and expanded to allow ships of up to 500,000 tons for ship design.

I have no opinion here.

> 6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
> the TNE era; they should be generic enough that they are not obviously
> aimed at a specific mileau. Obviously every piece of equipment cannot be
> included, but the basics shound range from TL 11 to TL 15.

I agree.

> 7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical.

I agree.

> A good
> example is the RPSCS developed by Joseph Walsh and others.

RPSCS is a good system, although it could use some polishing.

> Perhaps a
> second, abstract High-Guard like system could be included for battles with
> larger ships.

I agree, but I, like Allen, would like a tactical system.

> 8. ALIENS. Every other edition of Traveller has made you wait to play
> aliens. This one should not. Racial data for the major races and capsule
> descriptions of their societies; detailed data can come later, but a lot of
> us know that data anyway, and my experience is that new players expect to
> be able to play aliens. Withholding that info for a "supplement" does not
> mean that players are going to play these aliens "right" anyway. So let us
> be able to play them from the start.

I think aliens are integral to Traveller, and I'd like to see a lot more than what
we've seen in the past.  But, I have no problem with the main rule book omitting
aliens, or just giving a page or two to the major races.  Aliens in Traveller have
always been detailed, and I would like to see supplemants supporting them.

The room in the main rule book can be used better on other topics.


> 9. A few pages devoted to the history and structure of the Imperium,
> perhaps the map of Charted Space, and a map of the Core Subsector circa
> year 0 and the Regina subsector circa 1100.

Sounds good.

> 10. As regards the art; we do not need full color plates. I was far happier
> with GURPS Traveller, which had all black-and-white illustrations, than I
> ever was with the glitzy color used in IG's stuff. I don't dislike Chris
> Foss as an artist; I just think it was an unneccesary expense.

I like big, glossy, full color art.  From what I've seen from other game companies,
the price stays the same anyway.  I'd like to see a Traveller main book look as good
as the one for Star Wars Revised & Expanded or the new Star Trek:  The Next
Generation game.

I bring home these books, and I like the production value.  It's almost the year
2000.  We've grown way past the time when three little black pamphlets, stapled,
folded, with no art will suffice.

Let's create something that we can all be proud of.

Besides, the sexy books attracts others--that's my belief.


> This would be my dream version of Traveller, the one I would shell out $30
> for in a softcover trade paperback format (say, the size of the TNE
> rulebook) in a heartbeat. Or better yet, a hardcover..I payed $35 for LUG's
> Star Trek game without batting an eye, because when I looked at it, I felt
> it was worth it. I would love to do the same for Traveller.

Again, I'd like to see a Traveller book that looks as good as the new Star Trek game.

Game mechanics count too.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:05:47 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re GURPS Players

>Hmm, maybe it is something local to your area, or just a batch of really
>bad players.  I've run many GURPS games at cons (I used to run a lot of
>demos for SJ Games) and never ran into these problems.  Arguably, though,
>I do provide characters for my con games -- since my games tend to have
>fleshed out backgrounds for the game and characters, fitting in new
>characters for cons is just not viable.  I'd do this regardless of the
>game system I'm using.

Quite possibly. My friend Peter Newman, also on this list) tends to be a
rules lawyer in any game, is a hard-core GURPS proponent, and tends to be
mild compared to all the alaskan GURPS players I know. Fortunately, Peter
seems to be that 1 in 10 of the GURPS crowd I've met not heavily into
"Cloned Characters". I've run GURPS for some 25 different players in the
past (counts on fingers and toes) 12 years or so, and dealt with another 25
GURPS players, of them, only 5 made any positive impressions upon me wrt
GURPS.

It may have something to do with the fact that Alaska as a whole, and
anchorage in specific, tends to have a fairly large gamer segment in the
population, by comparison to other west coast areas.

Hell, I *LIKE* the GURPS mechanics.... but the people who tend toward
playing gurps, at least up here, I won't game with.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:09:52 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re CREW

>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:29:42 -0500 (CDT)
>From: SupremeThunder@webtv.net (Mike Schade)
>Subject: Question
>
>Iain Banks even uses CREW (coherent radiation emission weapon).   Can
>anyone tell me what one is?

Coherent Radiation Emmission = Laser of indeterminate frequency.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:33:08 -0400
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu>
Subject: re: Traveller's Aid Society

Peter Engeboss wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Plus, I have always made them a sort of safehouse type arrangement - go
here to avoid annoying customs and local laws (and to find out about them
- - first stop in every starport).  And job listings - in my universe,
people are more likely to hire travelleres with TAS membership than not -
they knew that they are likely to be more trustworthy and easier to track
down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Like people who can spend MCr1 per year on club memberships
are looking for work?  ;)

I like the networking ideas, but I think I'll keep the one-time fee
IMTU. I have TAS make most of their money off of news feeds,
franchising starport services and investments, they can afford
to hand out those high passages every month.

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:36:36 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

In a message dated 10/4/98 16:51:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thrash@io.com
writes:

<< The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
 Space, including world and campaign building.
  >>

Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:38:38 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly...... 

> If you want a _deeply unpleasant_ GURPS sourcebook for a Traveller
> crossover, try either "CthulhuPunk" or "War Against the Chtorr" for some
> _serious_ PC nightmares....

They came up with a War Against the Chtorr sourcebook????????????????

Hell, I'm still waiting for Gerrold to get his thumb out and do another book!

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:51:08 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Minor Race: Addaxur

  Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:39:51 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Question 

> > Iain Banks even uses CREW (coherent radiation emission weapon).   Can
> > anyone tell me what one is?
> 
> Its, IIRC, something like a LASER...

It's a laserhead missile.  An xray laser pumped up by a small tacnuke.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:43:22 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Breaking Encryption 

> 	Why encrypt anything if you don't have something to hide? Why seal
> your envelopes before you mail your letters? Why lock your front
> door? Just make it easy for the NSA ... only encrypt when you're
> committing a crime, so they KNOW something is up when encrypted
> messages start coming from you.

Why use letters at all instead of postcards?

Why have opaque walls when you can use transparent glass blocks?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:47:59 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

In a message dated 10/4/98 18:12:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:

<< Well, here we *really* part company. If the T5 system used anything even
vaguely
 like the MTrav Task System I would never *EVER* buy it. NEVER. I *loathed*
 MTrav. And I don't think I'm necessarily in a minority of one, either.
  >>

Just out of curiosity...what is is about MT that so violently turns your
stomach?  I was dissapointed w/ it when it came out in 87;  having finally
been fixed w/ errata, I think it holds a lot of CT in it, but also added a lot
of little details that CT didn't have. (My personal favorite:  Sensors...this
finally gave PCs w/ Sensor Ops skill something to do, and added a bit of
tactical flavor to what is otherwise High Guard).  The MT task system is
really not all that different from T4, w/ the exception of the attribute being
added (I think the MT divide stat by 5 to add to skill works well too).  I'm
not trying to provoke a fight here...I'm just curious, since you seem to be
rabidly opposed to the system.

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:46:57 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 

> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> >Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
> ...
> >They aren't "quite" wolves. And the idea is that they are *individuals*
> >with multiple bodies. Each body contributes to the personality as well
> >as to everything else. So individuals aren't *quite* immortal. Kill the
> >right body and the "person" will undergo a major change when the
> >replacement is added.
> >
> >They make *nasty* fighter pilots, because you have an entire
> >squadron(?) that *literally* co-ordinates as well as the fingers on a
> >hand! 
> 
>   Actually, the rules on telepathic (presumably) central direction for fighter
> pilots in Traveller (A:4) aren't terribly generous, and still difficult to
> justify even for Zho pilots who could all be telepathic themselves (ship tactics
> levels for the controller are conveyed as tactical skill to each of the pilots.)

Tines aren't 'linked up' just for minutes at a time, they're linked up as long 
as they're intelligent.  It's *ONE* mind shared between 4 to 8 bodies in close 
quarters, with thoughs supported by ultrasonic networking.  There's no 
telepathy involved.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #886
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 887



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: firearms safeguards in the future 
Definitive sensor rules
Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: MT Hand to Hand
Re: Transponders
TAS article
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 
Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Re: Behind the Claw
Re: Re GURPS Trav CGen
Re: Role Playing (was Re GURPS Players)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:50:22 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: firearms safeguards in the future 

>   It's a very limited case, but by installing psionic switches the
> Thought Police and similar Zho groups (Guards, naval officers) would
> largely not have to worry about unauthorized weapon use - not that 
> it's a big issue except where children and Imperials are concerned.

Unless they meet an Imperial who's a trained telepath.  <grin>

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:54:30 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Definitive sensor rules

Does anybody know what the ltest version of the Definitive sensor rules is?
Was the promised sub tech level 8 sensordesign sequences for FF&S2 ever
released?

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:06:39 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

I think I have finally hit on a metaphor that perfectly sums up my feelings
re: Traveller and GURPS Trav...remember the difference between Coke (now Coke
Classic) and New Coke?   Coke is Coke...but obviously not to a large majority
of folks out there (is New Coke even available anymore?)

DustyLV769@aol.com  (writing this after taking 2 Percocets  %-)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:32:21 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 
...
>>   Actually, the rules on telepathic (presumably) central direction for
fighter
>> pilots in Traveller (A:4) aren't terribly generous, and still difficult to
>> justify even for Zho pilots who could all be telepathic themselves (ship
tactics
>> levels for the controller are conveyed as tactical skill to each of the
pilots.)
>
>Tines aren't 'linked up' just for minutes at a time, they're linked up as long 
>as they're intelligent.  It's *ONE* mind shared between 4 to 8 bodies in close 
>quarters, with thoughs supported by ultrasonic networking.  There's no 
>telepathy involved.

  Yes, but that's the closest analogue in Trav. Besides, they're monumentally
screwed by significant time-lags (they're helped to use radio in the book,
IIRC), eliminating the flexibility of large volume coverage. They might
simply make
better gunship crews (or ground combat units).

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:32:26 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
...
><< The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
> Space, including world and campaign building.
>  >>
>
>Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
>LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?

  <snicker> But seriously, there's a lot more in G:T than Books 1-3 (or 0-3)
had, and much more in BTC than S:3. IIRC, there's something like 43 LBB's or
so, counting Supps and Adventures, plus the modules, campaigns, etc.

  While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer 
at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:33:41 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

>From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
>Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
...
>I wonder if the folks over on the  D&D list get into this sort of thing?  ;-)

  Yes. Just now they're going through their biannual "Are Evil Dragons
Unredeemable?" essay contest.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:22:40 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

snip
>Just out of curiosity...what is is about MT that so violently turns your
>stomach?  I was dissapointed w/ it when it came out in 87;  having finally
>been fixed w/ errata, I think it holds a lot of CT in it, but also added a
lot
>of little details that CT didn't have. (My personal favorite:  Sensors...this
>finally gave PCs w/ Sensor Ops skill something to do, and added a bit of
>tactical flavor to what is otherwise High Guard).  The MT task system is
>really not all that different from T4, w/ the exception of the attribute
being
>added (I think the MT divide stat by 5 to add to skill works well too).  I'm
>not trying to provoke a fight here...I'm just curious, since you seem to be
>rabidly opposed to the system.
>snip
Whilst not directed at me :) Consiedr the number of dice rolls required to
sort out a task. and the ludicrous number of fatal taks.  Oh no... to get
through the sliding doors... :)
Colin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:43:37 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

In a message dated 10/4/98 23:28:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer
 at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements. >>

But if I recall right, G:T also needs ("recommends") the Character Compendium,
GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech 1&2, and Vehicles also.  I am a little old-fashioned;
when I buy a game, I hope it has everything in it to play the game.  I can get
by w/ just GURPS Basic and G: T...but only because I have 14+ years of other
info to fall back on:  a player completely new to Trav would not have this
benefit.

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:50:29 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

In a message dated 10/4/98 23:38:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au writes:

<< Consiedr the number of dice rolls required to
 sort out a task. and the ludicrous number of fatal taks.  Oh no... to get
 through the sliding doors... :) >>

Hmm...I don't know.  I have never had to have PC make more than one roll for a
task, unless he failed and was allowed to re-try it...nor can I ever recall a
PC being offed by a fatal (or even fateful) task.  Thats not to say they were
not put into a potentially fatal situation by failing a task :-)

You may be confusing a "fateful" task with the word fatal...all a fateful task
is is a task with some possibility of something bad happening if you fail at
it; it in no way means if you fail, you die (necessarily...if you are trying
to grab a rope as you go over a cliff and fail, well...)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 00:14:12 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand

>From: "Smart, David J (David)" <David.Smart@ons.octel.com>
>Subject: Re: MT Hand to Hand - not Interrupts
...
>Seriously though, this leads me to a point I've been
>wrestling with for about a month now. Has anyone considered
>modifying damage done by melee weapons based on the skill
>level of the wielder? It seems to me that a high skill level
>would not only allow the highly skilled character to make a
>higher chance of making a successful attack but could also
>allow the attack to be more effective.
>
>Any thoughts on this, anyone?

  AHL had a melee value/column shift system based on (Strength+Dexterity)/4 +
Brawling Skill :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 00:14:34 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponders

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Transponders
...
>nightmare for the Empire in that a harbor master or a ship owner could
>quickly build an accurate map of almost all trafic within a subsector.  The
>value of such information to a sipping company or an enemy power is
>staggering.  Remember the WW2 line, 'Loose lips sink ships!"?  All to true
>them and even more true when a near perfect log of nearly all traffic
>exists.  Big brother works BOTH ways.

  Which brings up the point that the somewhat impractical but much-cited
pirate "tactic" of sitting at a starport and monitoring traffic will be
easily mistaken for the activities of a foreign intelligence ship if done
in a starship.

  In any event much strategic info about foreign civilian traffic flows can
be determined from public information, pretty much by definition.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:04:31 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: TAS article

	I've recently found an old preliminary write-up for TAS (it covers the
development of TAS from the Rule of Man to 1116/1120 or so). I have it
currently posted on my web site at:

	members.aol.com\kagekiha\traveller


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:05:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

I agree with Allen's comments.  I'm not that big a fan of damage coming 
off attributes, and I *really* like the MT task system (much better than 
either TNE or T4, both of which I thought were *way to attribute heavy).

I do have one possibly useful idea about including aliens.

As a professional rpg writer, I realize that games need supplements to 
sell.  However, having aliens in the Traveller main book sounds both more 
fun and like it would make for a richer game.

So:  Include aliens in Imperial culture in the main book.  You would have 
stats, some note on different senses, important biological & cultural 
differences, and let them use the exact same tables for generating 
Imperial characters as everyone else.  I'd go with Aslan, Vargr, a few 
human minor races, Vegans, Virushi, and maybe one or two more.  All of these
races should one with cultural groups which have been fully assimilated 
into the Imperium.    

Then you publish the alien books, which cover places like the Aslan 
Hierate, Vargr territories, as well as the Zhodani Consolate, and Hiver & 
K'Kree space.  Then throw in another book with Darrians, Droyne, and 
other small semi-independent groups, and you're set.

Comments?


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:06:03 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

> ><< The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
> > Space, including world and campaign building.
> >  >>
> >
> >Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
> >LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?
> 
>   <snicker> But seriously, there's a lot more in G:T than Books 1-3 (or 0-3)
> had, and much more in BTC than S:3. IIRC, there's something like 43 LBB's or
> so, counting Supps and Adventures, plus the modules, campaigns, etc.
> 
>   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer 
> at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements.

The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at *LEAST* 
2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.  You need the core rules for 
*everything*, G:T is just a background supplement, from what I've heard.  And 
to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the 
G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.  You're looking at 
no less than 40 bucks minimum, maybe as much as 2-300 all tricked out.  G:T is 
*NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:24:45 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 

> >> There is a great novel with telepathic wolves.
> >> Vernor Vinge, Fire on the Deep, IIRC.  The wolves are only intelligent in
> >> packs of 3-6, and they all see through each others eyes.
> >
> > The Tines weren't telepathic.  They 'networked' with ultrasound.  Great 
> > concept for a player race, though...
> 
> The tines alsao show up in one other story by Vinge. It's set on a
> planet just inside the slow zone.

I read that story.  Can't remember what the name of it was, though.  I thought 
the girl trying to win a cultural history contest by having a 'persona' of a 
cheerleader/courtesan was rather cute...

OTOT, IMTU, there's still a planet or 3 in the Solomani Rim that dates things 
according to when they tortured the Christ Gang (Elvis, JFK, and Karl Marx) 54 
centuries ago.  <grin>

> Tines *would* be a neat addition to Traveller. And a Tine/Hiver
> alliance would be scary. The Hivers might be able to talk the Tines
> into "designing" individuals again. 

I don't see the Tines giving up brood kennelling.  Giving up Flenserism, yeah, 
but not brood kennelling.

> That "harmless" ambassador and his staff (possibly as many as a dozen
> "persons") may be able to rearrange into a crack espionage or combat
> team simply by reconfiguring their comm links. 

Like the way Flenser-In-Waiting escaped from the North?
 
> Luckily, it takes *very* unusual circumstances to be able to handle
> that sort of multiple personality. And Tines would find it distasteful
> for reasons obvious to anyone who has read "A Fire Upon the Deep". 

It wouldn't be a multiple personality.  It'd be a *different* personality 
entirely.

> Tine character generation would be interesting. I'd say that you
> generate UPPs for each body, with some extra "mental" characteristics.
> And you have rules for how to combine the "mental" characteristics into
> that of the "person". 

Generate the intelectual stuff first:  INT & EDU.  If they're from Tinesworld, 
EDU can't be over 4.  The number of members would be dependant on INT; INT 4- 
would be impossible; INT 5 would be 4 members; 6 thru 8, 5 members; 9 thru B, 
6 members; C+, 7 members.  Then generate  the STR, DEX, & END of each member.  
STR would be 1D6+2, DEX would be the same, and END would be 2D6-2.  Combat 
damage would be against an individual member; when a pack has a member killed 
or knocked out, roll INT or more on 2D6 to keep from breaking apart.
 
> Adding and losing bodies would affect the person, as would damage to
> bodies.

See above.  An intelligent Tine is impossible with less than 4 members.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:27:28 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

> In a message dated 10/4/98 23:28:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
> 
> <<   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer
>  at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements. >>
> 
> But if I recall right, G:T also needs ("recommends") the Character Compendium,
> GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech 1&2, and Vehicles also.  I am a little old-fashioned;
> when I buy a game, I hope it has everything in it to play the game.  I can get
> by w/ just GURPS Basic and G: T...but only because I have 14+ years of other
> info to fall back on:  a player completely new to Trav would not have this
> benefit.

Nor would they have the necessary world generation system to generate homebrew
sectors.  Planetary and system generation rules are in G:Space.  As is, G:T
isn't standalone even with the core rules.  The LBB's *were*.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:31:25 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr 

> They aren't "quite" wolves. And the idea is that they are *individuals*
> with multiple bodies. Each body contributes to the personality as well
> as to everything else. So individuals aren't *quite* immortal. Kill the
> right body and the "person" will undergo a major change when the
> replacement is added.
> 
> They make *nasty* fighter pilots, because you have an entire
> squadron(?) that *literally* co-ordinates as well as the fingers on a
> hand! 

Downside is, since they have no manipulators other than their mouths, they'd 
have to have either voice-controlled ships or joysticks they can move around 
with their mouths.

> They *are* vulnerable to jamming their comm links (they require *high*
> bandwidth audio links to maintain the "link". But since they need to
> run spread spectrum *anyway*, they aren't terribly vulnerable to this.

They only run spread spectrum in the audio frequencies.  You'd have to assign
seperate wideband channels for each individual pack as well as an interpack
wideband channel.  Remember, they *talk* in wideband too.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:01:46 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Boom go the Fusion Plant (was re: Rocketry 100)

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, SD Mooney wrote:
> If you were using a toroidal fusion reactor (Tokumak?) and lost the
> magnetic containment, wouldn't the plasma want to obey centifugal effects
> and fly out radially, making a big mess, especially when is comes into
> contact with the fuel systems?

From what I have read (ten years ago) about fusion reactors, I recall that
although the fusing plasma is very hot, there is not very much of it, and
it is relatively sparse. In other words, it does not contain much heat, so
when it splashes on the cavity walls, they don't warm very much. 

Somebody more enlightened in the matter could perhaps correct, if I am
wrong.

- --
Mikko Parviainen
 IMTU tc+ tm++ tn+ ru+ ge++ 3i+ jt-- jd++ pi au st- ls kk hi++ dr++ as+
va+ so- zh+ da++ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:31:58 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Date sent:      	Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:32:26 -0700
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM

>>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>><< The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
>> Space, including world and campaign building.

>>Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
>>LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?

>  <snicker> But seriously, there's a lot more in G:T than Books 1-3 (or 0-3)
>had, and much more in BTC than S:3. IIRC, there's something like 43 LBB's or
>so, counting Supps and Adventures, plus the modules, campaigns, etc.

>  While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer 
>at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements.

Nope, no world gen (book 3). As it stands I 'd say you need at least three 
books to run G:T "properly": GURPS basic, G:T and Space or BTC  (total cost 
$67.85). To run T4 "properly" (I'm politely ignoring IG's stuff ups) you needed 
two books: Basic rules and M:0 (total cost $47.95). However you only need 
Space or BTC due to the lack of a world gen sequence. Now I can see a few 
_very_ simple ways in which SJG could solve this "problem" if they wanted.

a) They could produce a striped down lite version of the world gen in Space and 
distribute it as part of GURPS lite.

b) they could publish the basic data for one subsector (say Regina).

c) they could simply establish a link on their Traveller webpage to Jim 
Vassilakos Galatic 2.4 (or even better mirror it on their own ftp site) and allow 
new players to convert the ample data there. Me I'd go for option c.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:22:40 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:48:56 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:47:59 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
>
>In a message dated 10/4/98 18:12:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:
>
><< Well, here we *really* part company. If the T5 system used anything even
>vaguely
> like the MTrav Task System I would never *EVER* buy it. NEVER. I *loathed*
> MTrav. And I don't think I'm necessarily in a minority of one, either.
>  >>
>
>Just out of curiosity...what is is about MT that so violently turns your
>stomach?  I was dissapointed w/ it when it came out in 87;  having finally

Well, leaving out the game system (I have printing #1 ... i.e. the bug-ridden
one) in areas other than the Task System ...

I found the whole idea of the Task system counter-intuitive. I found it unweildy
to describe and use. I found that it did nothing to improve on the CTrav system.
I'd never liked it in the Digest Group magazines, and couldn't see why they
needed to add it to a Traveller game system that worked perfectly well.

Something *like* MTrav was needed ... I mean, a new, improved, expanded rule
system. However, I have always been of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
school of game design ... CTrav worked, from task resolution through to ship
design ... MTrav didn't.

>been fixed w/ errata, I think it holds a lot of CT in it, but also added a lot
>of little details that CT didn't have. (My personal favorite:  Sensors...this
>finally gave PCs w/ Sensor Ops skill something to do, and added a bit of
>tactical flavor to what is otherwise High Guard).  The MT task system is

Personally, the Sensor rules were, IMHO, another turn-off. I *preferred* the
approach of High Guard. I don't *want* a gearhead style approach. I dont see
complexity of vehicle design = great design system. I didn't like the MTrav
vehicle design rules, I liked FF&S even less (and, yes, I have them both), and I
was truly disappointed with T4 using FF&S.

I liked the GURPS Vehicles system because it was so easy to use. I dislike GV2
for the same reasons I disliked MTrav and TNE ... I don't want to have to have a
Spreadsheet program *AND* write a damn spreadsheet for the design system to
design ships. I want to be able to go 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - N step by step.

All this 1 - 2 er, you need the results from 11 (which you can't work out until
you have 1-10) - 3 er, you need the results from 7 (which you can't work out
unless you have 1-6) - 4 etc. garbage is, well, garbage.

Sure. Gearheads love it. I like designing things as much as the next guy, but,
hey, lets get real here, we're not designing something that *is* real. We're
designing things based on thinly disguised bullshit. So there is NO EXCUSE
WHATSOEVER for having a system as user unfriendly as MTrav/FF&S or GV2. None.

Personally, I will use either GV1 or CORPS VDS ... talking of which! VDS offers
all the complexity that a gearhead could possibly want, but is usable with a
linear design sequence, unlike all the others mentioned.

Even better would be something like RTG's "Maximum Metal" which allows you to
*modify* existing designs, but not create new ones ... that would do for most
people, and something like VDS would work for the true gearheads.

FF&S and MTrav and GV2 are simply a waste of time.

<rant mode off>

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:17:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Behind the Claw

Leszek Karlik wrote;

>Depends, but usually 70-80 percent is background and 30-20 mechanics.
>Generally, the running joke around here is that GURPS supplements are
>really supplements for other role-playing games, the SJG just doesn't know
>it. For example: Space, Ultratech (1 and 2) and Biotech sourcebooks are
>wonderful source of info for ANY SF campaign. So is Cyberpunk. 

Yup.

GURPS is not my first system of choice; I use it usually when everyone who
is playing hates all of my normal systems (CORPS, FUZION, FUDGE) enough
for it to make the difference between playing and not playing.

But I've got damn close to a shelf full of GURPS material; almost every SF
product they've released, Martial Arts, Magic, Grimoire, Wizards, etc...
and a lot of their placebooks (GURPS:Egypt, etc.)

Because one thing SJG (more importantly, their writers) *always* do is to
do their homework. If something is in a book, I'm pretty certain I can use
it as a second-hand cite (and have, after checking on the originals in a
couple of cases).

And the 3-18 system isn't hard to convert to other systems; they even give
you a convenient %of success chart in the basic book. 

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
have Powerbook, Will Travel(l)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
Subject: Re: Re GURPS Trav CGen

>
>Dom queries:
>>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>>retiring.
>>
>>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
>>a template and some other skills.
>
>GT specifies 100 point characters... the GURPS standard.

I would say that it depends entirely on what your campaign is about, and
what kind of influence/powers you want the players to have access to.

For example, if you want one (or more) Psi-capable characters, I'd advise
a slightly higher starting point cost; 100+40+5 will build a valid Psi
character, but they will be dangerously short on more mundane abilities
(which is not in keeping with Traveller; PSI has always been a
"congratulations, you're a Psi-active person, rather than "too bad you
spent so much time concentrating on your psi abilities that you can't cook
ramen noodles...." This is psionics, not Magery).

Similarly, if you are running a Navy or Marines game, basing on more than
100 might be a good idea; GURPS:Special Ops suggests 300+disads, with no
more than 100 spent on stats. And given the nature of the Imperial Navy, I
can eassily see players spending a lot of points for Patrons, Allies, and
Contacts, just to give their characters the kind of "web of influence" you
need to survive as a Navy Officer for any period of time.

Keep in mind that 100pts is a *base*. More points does not equal a
munchkin character, or even an out of balance game. It does mean that you
have to go over character sheets a little more carefully, but it's not
that hard, and can result in characters that are a little more
interesting.

>Keep in mind that gurps has a limit on points spent on skills: 2*age. so,
>that said, keep in mind that most characters using the templates will be
>pushing that. Also, keep in mind also the up to 45 points more from disads
>and quirks. For reference, Lensmen start at around 500-1000 points, and
>galactic patrolmen around 200-300, and are epic sci-fi.

OTOH, GURPS:Uplift suggests 125 or so for even mundane folks, and
Terragens agents get up to 400 or so (I don't have the book in front of
me). And GURPS:Martial Arts and GURPS:Cyberpunk both suggest characters in
the 150-250 point range as starting characters. 

For GMs who have never run GURPS before, I might suggest 125 points or so
for your average starting Traveller, with no more than 80 points in stats,
and a GM ready to say *no*. But for those experience in the art of GURPS,
150-200 would allow for the average ex-Navy Commander, Marine Majors, etc.
who seemed to populate so many "Free Traders" cum mercenary Q Ships that
populated CT... :-)

Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Powerbook, will Travel(l)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 02:53:37 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Role Playing (was Re GURPS Players)

"William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote

> >maybe it is something local to your area, or just a batch of really
> >bad players.  

> Quite possibly. My friend Peter Newman, (also on this list) tends to 
> be a rules lawyer in any game, 

Say rather that I consider the rules to be the tools that the designers
use to create the universe they wish to reflect.  Obviously each word in
the rules means just what it says (no more and no less) and the
designers intended for you to use the rules as written.  Therefore any
"loop hole" in the rules was deliberately put there by the designers to
specifically allow the players to use it.  If the DM differs they (of
course) have the right to change the rule or interpret it differently
than I do _but_ it is rather bad form to call someone a "rules lawyer"
merely because they are attempting to use the rules created by the games
designer in a way which will benefit their charecter.

> is a hard-core GURPS proponent, and tends to be
> mild compared to all the alaskan GURPS players I know. Fortunately, 
> Peter seems to be that 1 in 10 of the GURPS crowd I've met not heavily 
> into "Cloned Characters". I've run GURPS for some 25 different players 
> in the past 12 years or so, and dealt with another 25
> GURPS players, of them, only 5 made any positive impressions upon me 
> wrt GURPS.

One of the things that I like about GURPS is the Advantages &
Disadvantages.  I think that they are an excellent hook for role
playing.  Good role players will give their charecters personalities
whether or not they get points for doing so.  Many role players need a
bit of encouragement to give their charecters personality.  Giving
charecter points for disadvantages is an excellent way to encourage
this.  Similarly many normal people have little (or not so little)
advantages over other people.  The reason to have advantages and
disadvantages is not so (insert players name here) can formalize the
Impulsive, Overconfident, Combat Reflxes, high Dex, charecter he will
always play even if it is not on the charecter sheet it is so you can
more acurately model the personality you wish to play.  Yes you can play
a charecter with "disadvantages" even if the system does not have
disadvantages but I know of precious few GM"S who let players give their
charecters advantages.  To use a trivial real world example I do not get
hangovers but if I tried to say that a charecter I was playing did not
get hangovers most GM's would not allow it.  In GURPS I would just buy
the charecter the advantage No Hangover (5 points).

> Hell, I *LIKE* the GURPS mechanics.... but the people who tend toward
> playing gurps, at least up here, I won't game with.

The reality is that Wil (a good GM) has a great number of people who
wish to play in his campaigns and could easily get a good group together
for GURPS if he wanted to.  I have had good role playing experiences in
a lot of different systems but a lot of that was do to the story the GM
told - in systems where charecter personality is encouraged through
disadvantages I saw more role playing from players who normally like to
play the "fighter" type in AD&D & will stick to bashing, stabbing,
shooting people unless encouraged otherwise.

- -- 
Peter Newman		pnewman@alaska.net
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
whose Traveller (and everything else) charecters tend to have the
equivialant of 40+ points of disadvantages no matter which rules system
is used

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #887
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 888



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

GURPS Traveller and Traveller
Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
Blank Subsector Map
Re: TAS
Re: Transponders
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
What does 'canon' mean to me (Was: Transponders)
Re: Transponders and computers
Psionics - Who has the potential?
Re: Transponders
re: Traveller's Aid Society
Re: Re GT
Re: Psionics - Who has the potential?
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:10:08 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller and Traveller

I'm not saying, and never was saying, that GURPS Traveller is Traveller. It
isn't. It is the Traveller background (or more accurately A Traveller
background) using the GURPS mechanics. If you don't like it, that's fine. I
and many people here do. I would hope that, as a Traveller-related subject,
GURPS Traveller will be tolerated here. That is my only real concern.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:21:30 -0400
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I think I have finally hit on a metaphor that perfectly sums up my feelings
> re: Traveller and GURPS Trav...remember the difference between Coke (now Coke
> Classic) and New Coke?   Coke is Coke...but obviously not to a large majority
> of folks out there (is New Coke even available anymore?)
> 
> DustyLV769@aol.com  (writing this after taking 2 Percocets  %-)


I thought something completely different.  

Imagine, if you will, a busy sidewalk.  Loren is walking toward his
FLGS.  In his arms is a stack of GURPS books.  John is coming out of
said FLGS, with a collection of various and sundry Travller rules. 
SMASH!  The two collide.  Books go flying into the air.  They look at
each other and harrumph.  
John says to Loren, "hey, you got your GURPS in my Traveller."
Loren, "you got your Traveller in my GURPS."
They bend down, sort through the books.  Then it dawns on them.  "Hey." 
"Wow, this is good."  

Some like peanut butter cups, some don't.  It's all opinion.  I like
Traveller, that's why I'm here (but usually lurking).

John

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 06:17:25 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)

- ----Original Message Follows----
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 04:42:01 -0400
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

> Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign (under any
> system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system (i.e,
> actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

Not me.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction 
Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

===========================

Aye, no GURPS in my house either.






Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:31:46 -0400
From: "Mike Basinger" <dbasinge@cviog.uga.edu>
Subject: Blank Subsector Map

I'm looking for a blank subsector map in a editable graphical format (bmp,
gif, etc...). Does anyone know where I can find one?

Mike

- --
D. Michael Basinger Computer Support Specialist IV
Carl Vinson Institute of Government - University of Georgia
dbasinge@cviog.uga.edu
http://xboat.cviog.uga.edu/~dbasinge

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:02:54 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: TAS

Ian Whitchurch

>>From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)

>An 8% rate of return is approximatly double the rate paid on standard
>starship mortgages.

No it isn't. The standard rate paid on starships is 6.25%.

>If you assume a basic rate of interest of 2%, plus a risk premium of 2% for
>lending on starships (misjumps if nothing else add a risk premium), then you
>get a rock solid investment in a TAS membership earning four times the basic
>rate of interest.

It's a good deal, no doubt about that.
 
>>...it is quite *specific* in stating that the 1 MCr entry fee allows only a
>>*chance* of entry ... and a chance of being blackballed.
>
>And if I remember correctly, if you do get blackballed, they give you your
>megacredit back.

I can't recall if that has ever been established one way or another. It's
certainly the way I run it IMTU. 

>It is still an incredibly high rate of return on your investment. This does
>*not* make economic sense.

It's not a normal investment. It's a very special situation. For one thing,
the money isn't refundable. Once you die the money belongs to the TAS and
they don't owe your heirs a centicred. And in a society with a very low
rate of inflation (which IMO the Imperium is) money don't lose their value
so fast that a million credits isn't worth quite a lot even after a lifetime.
The tickets are paid for by funds accumulated through a millenium or more.

That brings me to something that I do think is a mistake: The presence of the
TAS in exactly the same form in Milieu Zero. IMO the TAS should either not
have existed in M:0 at all (I think I saw a reference in a less-than-official
article once to the effect that the TAS was founded around 300 or so) or it
should have cost less and given a lot less benefits. 

But for Milieux 1100+ I think the high rate of return can be explained. Come
to that, as someone else pointed out, it's not likely that TAS is paying
full rates for their passages.

>>>The other option is 'Associate TAS membership', which should be cheaper but
>>>give a lower level of service.
>>
>>This is, groan, *not* "canon".
> 
>It isnt not-canon either. I dare say the entirety of canon dealing with TAS
>would be about four A4 sheets, once you take out duplication of common
>knowledge. I would argue there is plenty of grey areas that referees can
>exploit.

I'd say less than one A4 page myself. But one of the few things that is
firmly established is the cost and (some of the) benefits of full TAS
membership.

>>>Alternativly, relabel references to TAS as 'The Octagon Society' or
>>>something

Not the Octagon Society, please.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:22:05 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Walter Smith writes:
Subject: re: Transponders

>Hans wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Or more common, I just bought my ship from someone, I start trading off the
>>X-Boat links - every planet I go to, the papers I'm carrying are the only
>>proof I didn't kill that nice old captain who was here last year and steal
>>his ship.
>
>But your papers have always been your primary proof. The transponder just
>determines whether the port authorities gives them a perfunctory or a
>thorough examination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>My papers are the primary proof? I was thinking that ship's papers were
>easily forged, compared to transponders - I thought effectively unforgeable
>transponders was the crucial point of the system.

Keep in mind that there are different assumptions involved and that much
depends on which ones you accept. CT says that transponders are supposedly
unforgable, but in reality they aren't. TNE claims they are unforgable,
period. In the last case you cannot disguise your ship, but you can still
carry forged papers that "prove" that you own it. You'd better keep running
until you're out of the jurisdiction, but if you are ahead of the
notification that your ship is stolen you can get away with it.

>Let me explain. I'm resistant to the idea of a perfect transponder working
>as a magic bullet for control of ships in the Empire. Makes it too hard to
>do interesting things with the PC's...

I'm with you there. One of my problems is that I think that even with
forgable transponders, the unrightous ship owner has enormous trouble
staying ahead of the authorities.

>If we could determine a criteria for gaining the attention of the
>authorities, give the PC's some breathing room, we'd be OK.

Basically, I think you need a transponder signal that dosen't make the
authorities curious. That means one they think is genuine  --  one that is
in their ship registry but that they've never encountered personally. Again,
much depends on your assumptions about volume of travel. If you think the
system have hundreds of unknowns popping in every day, you can get away with
a lot less than if you think 99% of all traffic is well-known to the locals.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:32:36 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <Philk@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:11:03 -0400
>From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
>Subject: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

<snip>
as a T4 ref, I'd just like to see T5 appear. :-)

>1. I would like to see T5 retain the character generation rules of T4 to a
>large part. <snip>

I agree with JOT, it doesn't seem to work anymore (I've deleted it from MTU).
One of the things I did with the T4.1 draft chargen was to regroup all the
skills so that (eg) Marine characters had tables for Leaders, Led and
Support (plus 3 others). I allowed players to choose a table and then
roll for a skill. It made an effective step towards allowing different
career paths in each career. The non officer tables lost the cutlass
(although maybe I'd replace with combat axe in future).
Also I reduced the number of stat gains (especially in mustering out).
Another change was to replace first aid and medical with surgery
and medicine - I don't like having two skills one of which is a subset
of another (eg a character with Medical 1 and First Aid 1 has only 1 skill).
Finally, I added different mustering out benefits (eg vehicles, property,
etc. - better than everyone going for cash because they don't want
a blade or a gun).
From experience, one change I'd make is in university education.
Taking a skill through to PhD with honours makes double digit skill too easy
Some sort of diminishing return is suggested.
Also, IIRC, T4.1 does not like lawers :-) You cannot be a law PhD
(but I ignored this and allowed one player to be the party's combat lawyer :-)

I could probably post this stuff, but it might be too long for the TML and
I don't think it is suitable for a website because it is still Marc's
work in progress.

>2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
>END and DEX of the character discontinued. <snip>

I'd vote to keep the current CT/T4 mechanism.

>3. <snip> task system <snip>

I didn't think people were supposed to advocate task systems on the TML due
to the resulting flame temperature :->

Personally I'm using a T4 varient that was invented at the time of the T4
task system flame war
(and no, its not KBS2.0, or T4.1 or CORPS, or sort of MT, or G:Tish...)

>4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. <snip>

Remember KISS.
Personally, I like to have a few rolls to see if actions are successful and
use roleplay for the rest.
However I do appreciate the efforts of people trying to write detailled
systems because they can give a better idea of what is possible.
I just don't want to have to do the sums during an RP session.

>5. I would use a version of the QSDS <snip>

But I have Excel and Andy's Spreadsheet, what more could I want. :-)

>6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
>the TNE era; <snip>

Actually TL 0 - 25, so I can run any period. I've just had this evil
thought about sending the party back to participate in the Ancient War.

>7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. <snip>

Especially vector movement like Mayday and BR. I never did understand
why BL had to have such an incredibly complex movement system that was
not quite vector.
Also how about this time having the design and combat systems work
together? A silly request, I know.

>8. ALIENS. Every other edition of Traveller has made you wait to play
>aliens. This one should not. <snip>

I disagree.
If T5 is too work as a product it needs a set of books.
Trying to put too much into the basic book puts the cost up and is wasted
when the suplement comes out.
Also the more in book 1, the more chance of errata and publishing deadline
problems.

>9. A few pages devoted to the history and structure of the Imperium, <snip>

I disagree here as well, see (8).
I already have the data, a newbie would need more than was on offer.
IMHO You must ensure that T5 appears as a set of books - this gives more shelf
presence and looks like it is worth buying.

One thing that put me off GURPS (and TSRs non AD&D stuff) is assumption that
you get the basic rules and a supplement for the period. Then they are off on
the next project with no further support, leaving a game without depth.
The list off books planned to support G:T changes my mind about this much more
than putting the stats for a single sector in the G:T rulebook would.
(I may buy all the G:T stuff, but I don't expect to ever buy GURPS Basic or
play GURPS)

>10. As regards the art; we do not need full color plates. <snip>

Agreed. Even more so as they did not seem to be used well (Book 2 - Starships,
I rest my case).

T4 had some good attempts - lots of books and apparent support.
With less errata, more thought into the game as a set of books and what goes
where, fewer gaps and fewer contradictions, then T5 could be my dream version.

Especially 10 hardback volumes in black each with its own colour coded stripe
on the spine, a good colour pic on the front cover and a synopsis on the back.

Phil K

- --
  Interested in a wargames show in Colchester, Essex UK?
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:24:22 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: What does 'canon' mean to me (Was: Transponders)

Charles Prevatte writes:

At 10:24 PM 9/30/98 +0200, you wrote:

>>The ability of naval ships to turn off their transponders is canon (so is
>>the ability of civilian ships to do the same, come to that).
>
>Pardon?  I thought that was the point of this discussion.  That if you turn
>off the transponder it self distructs.

When I say that something is canon, I mean that there is evidence in some
previously published official material that it exists. I don't guarantee
that there are no equally official statements to the effect that it dosen't
exist. There are quite a few such contradictory elements in the Traveller
canon. Opinions differ about what to do about them. Some people think you
should just ignore them. Others think you should accept the newest evidence
as the truth. My own opinion is that one should weigh the contradictory
evidence, settle on whichever one makes for the best role-playing universe,
retroactively change whatever is needed to resolve the conflict and move on
from there with a better, stronger, more self-consistent game background.


>...If the transponders send ability can be muted I have few problem with the
>any of the described systems except those that log all other transponders
>they meet. That log would create a security nightmare for the Empire in that
>a harbor master or a ship owner could quickly build an accurate map of almost
>all trafic within a subsector.

Apparently this feature of the Deyo transponders is apocryphical.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:26:18 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders and computers

Charles Prevatte writes:

>Just a few slight problems here.  
>
>1) Reburning the chips substrate take a fair amount of power an a connect
>capable of carring that power.

I don't have any problem with that aspect of it. I've always assumed that
the Virus was psionic in nature. Psionics is the Traveller Universe's version
of magic. I do require my magic to follow deterministic rules, but the laws
of thermodynamics need not be part of said rules (many psionic operations
should IMO really fry the adept's brain).

My main unresolved question is whether the Virus is a psionic silicone chip
that propagates by taking over the "brains" of other silicone chips or if it
is a pure psionic energy being that lives in a certain kind of silicone chip
and propagates by changing other chips into suitable habitats and then
multiply by splitting into two.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Psionics - Who has the potential?

I have been considering how psionics are portrayed in Traveller. From the
presence of the Psionics Institute, it is obvious that Imperials are
capable of having psionic powers. However, it seems to be implied many
places that the Zhodani are somehow physiologically different in this area
- - i.e. more psionically adept.

But from the rules, it seems that you could take any young Imperial with a
decent PSI stat and train them to be a capable psionic if you caught them
before they started losing PSI to aging effects (and there is no negative
to the PSI roll for being an Impie, so you'd figure that Zho and Imp
individuals would have the same potential spread in the population).

Also, is there any difference in the PSI potentials of Vilani and
Solomani (or other races for that matter).

Any comments?

Ben

- --
Brannon (Ben) Boren
brannonb@blarg.net
http://www.mog.net/brannonb/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:25:06 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Transponders

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

>I'm with you there. One of my problems is that I think that even with
>forgable transponders, the unrightous ship owner has enormous trouble
>staying ahead of the authorities.

But since the transponder needs to be notified that there has been a
change in ownership, all A,B and propably C type starports needs to
be able to give the transponder this new data. Buy of on of these 
officals and you have a transponder that tells the whole world that
the ship is yours.

>      Hans Rancke

Tommy Grav
- -------------------------------------------------------------
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:39:25 PDT
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: Traveller's Aid Society

CT TAS:

"The TAS is a private organization which naintains hostels and 
facilities at all class A and B starports in human space.  Such 
facitilities are available (at a reasonable cost) to members and their 
guests."

"....Receipt of memebership in the TAS upon mustering out may be 
contrued as a reward for heroism or extaoridinary service to the 
Society, rather than an official benfit of the service.

"Membership in the Society may also be purshased.  Such purchase 
involves avoidanceof a "blackball" (throw 4+ to avoid), and (if 
accepted) payment of an ititiation fee of Cr1,000,000....  The TAS 
invests its membership fees and other income; it uses its captial and 
return to provide benefits to its members.  Every two months, it pays 
dividends in the form of one high passage to each member...."


Did it change from this in any other edition of Traveller?

Greg


>
>
>I like the networking ideas, but I think I'll keep the one-time fee
>IMTU. I have TAS make most of their money off of news feeds,
>franchising starport services and investments, they can afford
>to hand out those high passages every month.
>
>Walt Smith
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:30:59 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Re GT

At 12:41 AM 10/5/98 GMT, you wrote:

>Does anyone other than me see it as being unrealistic that the most powerful
>characters in a GURPS/CORPS game are those that are the most hamstrung by
>character or physical flaws?

Let's look at this statement.  The character is by definition at a
disadvantage due to his character or physical flaws.  Bought Hot-Tempered
for the extra 10 points?  Guess what is going to happen when the character
is hassled by the cops on that Law-D world?

>Is it a law of nature that the only way a 30 (or 40) year old can learn
>anything is by losing limbs or gaining inimical enemies? I don't think so.

True, and you can build a very servicible GURPS/CORPS character without
major problems.  If you are willing to role-play the falws, you get more
points.  

<snip>

>>There is an easy solution for the rules-rapist who takes "one-hand" as a
>>disad then wants points for each finger; you say "not in my game."
>
>Or, even better, you simply say, "fine ... yes, a one armed, crippled, one
>eyed ex-marine with the entire universe hunting him on a 9- is OK ... but
>there're no points in it". See how many you get.

Why do that?  Just role-play the situation.  Put the guy in a situation
where his physical problems prevent an escape just as all those enemies
show up loaded for bear...

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:22:49 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Psionics - Who has the potential?

At 07:54 AM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I have been considering how psionics are portrayed in Traveller. From the
>presence of the Psionics Institute, it is obvious that Imperials are
>capable of having psionic powers. However, it seems to be implied many
>places that the Zhodani are somehow physiologically different in this area
>- i.e. more psionically adept.

The difference is cultural.  The Imperium is violently against psionics.
The early days of the Imperium were different, but a mass movement led to
the Psionic Surpressions in the 800s.

The Zhodani, on the otherhand, have made psionic ability a central part of
their civilization for millennia.  Their nobility is made up entirely of
psionic adepts.

An Imperial could be an overpowering telepath, but would have to hide it or
face severe penalties, and a Zhodani noble could have a Psi Str of 1 and no
real talent, but still have the noble rank. 

<snip>

>Also, is there any difference in the PSI potentials of Vilani and
>Solomani (or other races for that matter).

Hivers have no real psionic ability.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:36:31 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

At 01:36 AM 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:

><< The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
> Space, including world and campaign building.
>  >>
>
>Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
>LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?

What part of "GURPS supplement" did you not understand?  This is not T5.
It is an expansion for Steve Jackson Games' GURPS.  Never meant to be a
stand alone book.

There is a nice conversion page to allow you to use your old Traveller
material, or you can pick up GURPS Space (a very useful book in it's own
right) and Behind The Claw.

Can we please stop expected G:T to be Traveller?  Accept it for what it is,
a very nice collection of the classic material in one place.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:39:20 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

At 03:06 AM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:

>G:T is *NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.

Balderdash.  If it is so impossible, please explain what I was doing last
night with only a copy of the basic rulebook and G:T.  We played out the
old Amber Zone Resuce on Ruie.  Had a blast.

- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:17:23 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

"It's on Lunion, but don't bother looking in the PlanetNet Guide.  Head out
about 150 km on the Allyis Gridlore Line, and take stop 12.  Head up the
track.  Look not for neon or holographs, but a simple wooden sign.  A
wooden door, split down the middle (by the head of one Big Beef McCaffrey
in 1094).."

GURPS Traveller/Callahan's anyone?
- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/   |
+-------------------------------------+
| "Some days, you just can't get rid  |
|  of a bomb!"                        |
|     -Adam West, the REAL Batman     |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:02:08 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

  Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:34:22 +0100

[snip]
  Ancients - who else could have created it. Their second thought was nobody -
  not even the Ancients, would have _any_ reason to create it.
[snip]
  If you haven't already guessed the world in question is a disc, rotating on
  the back of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle
[snip]

Pratchett wrote "Strata".  Read it.  It'll answer those questions.
No, really, it will.  And it's science fiction.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

(Dragons flying by using their flames as jets....  "Guards, Guards!"
wasn't the _first_ book with that, no.)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #888
**********************************

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Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 889



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Dice Conversion chart
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......
Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
GURPS and Munchkins
Re: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Re GURPS
Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
Re: GURPS Traveller Questions
Point-Based Systems (was GT)
Re: "It Isn't Traveller"
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: GT: heavy cargo tender
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur 
Jack-of-All-Trades skill
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long) 
Re: GURPS and Munchkins
Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:27:02 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dice Conversion chart

In a message dated 10/4/98 9:15:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
rboleyn@clear.net.nz writes:

<< >Basically, what I need is a simple chart for converting CT's 2-12 range and
 >the target numbers such as
 >7+, 9+ etc. and T4's system, which basically flip-flops that, and GURPS 3d6
 >3-18 scale.
  >>

HALF DIE (All N = 3)	
Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	1	1	33%	1	33%	3	100%
	2	1	33%	2	67%	2	66%
	3	1	33%	3	100%	1	33%
	All N equals 3. .5D shows all outcomes from 1 to 3.

ONE DIE (All N = 6)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	1	1	17%	1	17%	6	100%
	2	1	17%	2	33%	5	83%
	3	1	17%	3	50%	4	67%
	4	1	17%	4	67%	3	50%
	5	1	17%	5	83%	2	33%
	6	1	17%	6	100%	1	17%
	All N equals 6. 1D shows all outcomes from 1 to 6.

ONE-AND-A-HALF DICE (All N = 20)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	2	1	5%	1	5%	20	100%
	3	2	10%	3	15%	19	95%
	4	3	15%	6	30%	17	85%
	5	4	20%	10	50%	14	70%
	6	4	20%	14	70%	10	50%
	7	3	15%	17	85%	6	30%
	8	2	10%	19	95%	3	15%
	9	1	5%	20	100%	1	5%
	All N equals 20. 1.5D shows all outcomes from 2 to 9. 

TWO DICE (All N = 36)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	2	1	3%	1	3%	36	100%
	3	2	6%	3	8%	35	97%
	4	3	8%	6	17%	33	92%
	5	4	11%	10	28%	30	83%
	6	5	14%	15	42%	26	72%
	7	6	17%	21	58%	21	58%
	8	5	14%	26	72%	15	42%
	9	4	11%	30	83%	10	28%
	10	3	8%	33	92%	6	17%
	11	2	6%	35	97%	3	8%
	12	1	3%	36	100%	1	3%	All N equals 36. 2D shows all outcomes from 2 to 12.

TWO AND A HALF DICE (All N = 216)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	3	2	1%	2	1%	216	100%
	4	6	3%	8	4%	214	99%
	5	12	6%	20	9%	208	96%
	6	18	8%	38	18%	196	91%
	7	24	11%	62	29%	178	82%
	8	30	14%	92	43%	154	71%
	9	32	15%	124	57%	124	57%
	10	30	14%	154	71%	92	43%
	11	24	11%	178	82%	62	29%
	12	18	8%	196	91%	38	18%
	13	12	6%	208	96%	20	9%
	14	6	3%	214	99%	8	4%
	15	2	1%	216	100%	2	1%	All N equals 216. 2.5D shows all outcomes from 3 to 15.
 THREE DICE (All N = 216)
Roll		N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	3	1	0.46%	1	0.5%	216	100.0%
	4	3	1.39%	4	1.9%	215	99.5%
	5	6	2.80%	10	5%	212	98.6%
	6	10	4.60%	20	9%	206	95%
	7	15	6.90%	35	16%	196	91%
	8	21	9.70%	56	26%	181	84%
	9	25	11.60%	81	38%	160	74%
	10	27	12.50%	108	50%	135	63%
	11	27	12.50%	135	63%	108	50%
	12	25	11.60%	160	74%	81	38%
	13	21	9.70%	181	84%	56	26%
	14	15	6.90%	196	91%	35	16%
	15	10	4.60%	206	95%	20	9%
	16	6	2.80%	212	98.6%	10	5%
	17	3	1.39%	215	99.5%	4	1.9%
	18	1	0.46%	216	100.0%	1	0.6%

THREE AND A HALF DICE (All N = 648)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	4	1	0.2%	1	0.2%	648	100.0%
	5	4	0.6%	5	0.8%	647	99.8%
	6	10	1.5%	15	2.3%	643	99.2%
	7	19	3%	34	5%	633	98%
	8	31	5%	65	10%	614	95%
	9	46	7%	111	17%	583	90%
	10	61	9%	172	27%	537	83%
	11	73	11%	245	38%	476	73%
	12	79	12%	324	50%	403	62%
	13	79	12%	403	62%	324	50%
	14	73	11%	476	73%	245	38%
	15	61	9%	537	83%	172	27%
	16	46	7%	583	90%	111	17%
	17	31	5%	614	95%	65	10%
	18	19	3%	633	98%	34	5%
	19	10	1.5%	643	99.2%	15	2.3%
	20	4	0.6%	647	99.8%	5	0.8%
	21	1	0.2%	648	100.0%	1	0.2%

FOUR DICE (All N = 1296)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	4	1	0.1%	1	0.1%	1296	100.0%
	5	4	0.3%	5	0.4%	1295	99.9%
	6	10	0.8%	15	1.2%	1291	99.6%
	7	20	1.5%	35	2.7%	1281	98.8%
	8	35	3%	70	5%	1261	97%
	9	56	4%	126	10%	1226	95%
	10	80	6%	206	16%	1170	90%
	11	104	8%	310	24%	1090	84%
	12	125	10%	435	34%	986	76%
	13	140	11%	575	44%	861	66%
	14	146	11%	721	56%	721	56%
	15	140	11%	861	66%	575	44%
	16	125	10%	986	76%	435	34%
	17	104	8%	1090	84%	310	24%
	18	80	6%	1170	90%	206	16%
	19	56	4%	1226	95%	126	10%
	20	35	3%	1261	97%	70	5%
	21	20	1.5%	1281	98.8%	35	2.7%
	22	10	0.8%	1291	99.6%	15	1.2%
	23	4	0.3%	1295	99.9%	5	0.4%
	24	1	0.1%	1296	100.0%	1	0.1% 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:26:58 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

In a message dated 10/5/98 12:51:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>

No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
talking about them?

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:33:37 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

At 12:26 PM 10/5/98 EDT, Marc Miller wrote:
>In a message dated 10/5/98 12:51:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
>shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
>
><<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>
>
>No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
>talking about them?

What, discuss Traveller here?  what *are* you think of...  <grin>

Sounds good to me.
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:35:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

>Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:17:23 -0700
>From: dberry@hooked.net
>Subject: Re: If you thought Traveller/Illuminati was silly......

>"It's on Lunion, but don't bother looking in the PlanetNet Guide.  Head
out
>about 150 km on the Allyis Gridlore Line, and take stop 12.  Head up the
>track.  Look not for neon or holographs, but a simple wooden sign.  A
>wooden door, split down the middle (by the head of one Big Beef McCaffrey
>in 1094).."

>GURPS Traveller/Callahan's anyone?

The Commander raises an eyebrow as he hears this...

GURPS Traveller/Callahan's?  Are you kidding me?  You bet!

But you're buying.   ;-)

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Military & Civilan Starship Contractor
 //\\  High Energy Weapons Research
//  \\ http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:26:55 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

Market specialists talk about the rise of Pepsi.

Coke dominated the market in (the 20s? the 30's?). Pepsi came out and was 16
ounces for just a nickel (Coke was 8 ounces). The differences:  the better
price; more fluid ounces, immediately gained Pepsi market share.

The specialists say Coke should have done that... (come out with a companion
product with price and value to fill the niche) and Pepsi would never have
found a hole to gain a foothold in.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:42:50 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

At 08:21 AM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Imagine, if you will, a busy sidewalk.  Loren is walking toward his
>FLGS.  In his arms is a stack of GURPS books.  John is coming out of
>said FLGS, with a collection of various and sundry Travller rules. 
>SMASH!  The two collide.  Books go flying into the air.  They look at
>each other and harrumph.  
>John says to Loren, "hey, you got your GURPS in my Traveller."
>Loren, "you got your Traveller in my GURPS."
>They bend down, sort through the books.  Then it dawns on them.  "Hey." 
>"Wow, this is good."  

If only SJG did television ads....
- --

+--------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net  |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
+--------------------------------------+
| "Oh, My God.. they killed STREPHON!  | 
|  You Bastards!!!!                    |
|                -Grand Admiral Kyle   |
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:59:30 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: GURPS and Munchkins

>>These are not problems endemic to GURPS, but problems caused by the GURPS
>>mechanics appealing to that type of player, especially of late.
>
>Weird.  Maybe it is a recent change in the base of players.  

I suspect this is an example of Grisham's Law: bad xxx drives out good
xxx. Ie. an early group of munchkin GURPSers drove out more mature gamers
to other systems.

Worst gamers I've seen were Warhammer dweebs. Second worst was a Traveller
group. Best was also a Traveller group.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:55:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Maximum Laser discharge energy for GT

John H Bogan Jr writes:
> I seem to have missed the thread where this discussion
> originated, and I haven't sorted through the GURPS 
> design sequence enough to evaluate designs yet,
> but since I'm the guy who came up with the TL*50MJ
> laser limit in the first place, it might help to
> go over _why_ it was imposed in order to help you
> evaluate your designs.

<stuff zapped>

In GURPS it's less clear that lasers are superior to all other weapons -- an
X-ray laser has 8-9 times the range of a PAW or meson of comparable size and
power consumption, but it's impractical to _hit_ at the ranges a spinal laser
mount would achieve, and either one does _dramatically_ more damage.

Still, unless rules were put in place to restrict it, building a ship with a
spinal laser mount and a bunch of acceleration (and rather light armor), then
sitting at the jump limit (roughly the half-damage range of a spinal laser
similar in size to light spinal mounts in GT) would be fairly tempting, and
probably extremely annoying for the other side -- a spinal laser is heavy
enough that it's low damage isn't _that_ crippling.  Given that there's no
evidence of tactics like this in canon, I suspect a laser size limit makes some
sense.  Exactly what the size limit would be depends on what you want to
achieve:
If you want to allow laser spinal mounts, don't put a limit on.
If you want to allow laser bays, put a limit of around TL gigajoules.  They
will have around three times the range of a spinal meson gun, and will be able
to penetrate armor on all but very heavy warships (6d*450(2) at TL 12).
If you want to allow 'heavy laser mounts' -- i.e. fill a turret with a single
laser, rather than three of them -- TL*100 MJ.
If you want to keep existing designs, TL*50 MJ is probably about right.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:06:23 PDT
From: "Odin Sveinsson" <helsefyr34@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

Yes...<g>!

>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:26:58 EDT
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>In a message dated 10/5/98 12:51:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
>shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
>
><<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>
>
>No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to 
start
>talking about them?
>
>Marc Miller
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:16:07 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re GURPS

Eris Reddoch wrote:

>On 10/04/98 at 09:47 PM,  Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU> said:

>
>>Some of these people my be like me and refuse to or are unable to
>>play most disadvantages.  Therefore most of my characters have
>>simular sets of disadvantages in games that have such.  BTW, I seldom
>>play games with a point system, prefering Traveler(mod MT, TNE, or
>>T4) or RQ
>
>I'm all for people playing "interesting" characters.  Pick a
>disadvantage or whatever and play it.  You shouldn't have to get
>paid for it.
>
>But, whatever floats your boat!!

I do believe that you should get "paid" for some of the disadvantages,
but NO where near the point values I have seen so far.  also I think
that every character should have one disadvantage (required) without
being paid for it (to help make the character interesting).  I advise
this in the Traveller games I run ("give me a character flaw or quirk")

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:10:41 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

>>Hear, hear!  To me Traveller IS in the setting, hard SF and all... 

Agreed. However, the game mechanics can't get in the way (my opinion). My
Traveller campaign started as space opera (we were all in high school and
didn't know much science), then evolved into a hard-SF game as we learned
more. It's now quite 'hard', and even breaks canon to maintain real-world
congruence. 

And yes we know that jump drive isn't real. But we keep the unreality to a
minimum. This is partly a consequence of playing with a group of
scientists - a scientific blooper spoils their 'willing suspension of
disbelief'.

I use TNE rules when I remember them, MT when I forget TNE, and TMWYR
("Tell Me What You Rolled") when something not covered by the rules I
remember crops up. I may migrate to playing GT, but only if there's a
metric version. (Personal viewpoint, but continuous conversions are too
much of a pain to bother with.) Otherwise I may use The babylon Project as
the rules for a Traveller campaign.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:13:19 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)

Steven Hudson wrote:
> 
> >From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
> >Subject: Re: Biannual TML flame war (was: G:T)
> ...
> >I wonder if the folks over on the  D&D list get into this sort of thing?  ;-)
> 
>   Yes. Just now they're going through their biannual "Are Evil Dragons
> Unredeemable?" essay contest.

We usually redeemed them for gold and experience points...lots and lots
of gold and experience points...

<ba-DUMP>

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:14:40 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Questions

In a message dated 10/4/98 8:27:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<  FWIW, everything I'd heard on the 2300 AD mailing list (which, having _no_
 support is a bit more militant on this subject) indicated that Mr. Sanger is
 an extremely difficult individual to deal with, and that productive
negotiations
 were improbable at best.
  >>

Why does it seem that the pain in the A--es always seem to get the game rights
to the really interesting discontinued items (ala' Howard Thompson, and the
owner of Superior Naval minis, who won't sell out, but won't cast any models,
etc...) :-(

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:15:18 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Point-Based Systems (was GT)

aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor) writes:
>Well, no, if you have a copy of Dark Star #1 (they're still available in
>electronic format through www.hyperbooks.com, but you have to ask Terry
>for them
>directly by name as they aren't listed), then you have T4 character
>generation
>redone as a point purchase system within the parameters of a
>career/template
>structure plus a few other "improvements". This was done (and it is
>simply the
>most recent of my variants, let alone ghu knows how many other Traveller
>GMs)
>that allows flexibility within the *framework* laid out by the Career
>structure.

Worth getting. And I'm certain Phil would mail you one in exchange for
money :-)

>
>Personally, FWIW, I find having game designated character traits a pain.
>And
>unrealistic. In my games, yes, you *can* have one arm or be missing an
>eye, but
>it gains you *NO* extra skills.
>
>Does anyone other than me see it as being unrealistic that the most
>powerful
>characters in a GURPS/CORPS game are those that are the most hamstrung by
>character or physical flaws?
>
>Is it a law of nature that the only way a 30 (or 40) year old can learn
>anything
>is by losing limbs or gaining inimical enemies? I don't think so.

No, this is a game-balance feature to _force_ munchkins to take a
disadvantage. Otherwise all munchkin characters will be exceptionally
healthy and sane.  Mature gamers generally don't need it. (Mind you, my
definition of a "mature" gamer includes playing realistically-flawed
characters for the fun of it, without the prod of game points.)

>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:17:46 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: "It Isn't Traveller"

In a message dated 10/4/98 9:51:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
yikes@evansville.net writes:

<< DGPs _World Builder's Handbook_ for $1.95 and wept for joy like a little
 girl while doing a little dance, so I guess I'm still part of the club (or m
 aybe I'm just weird).
  >>
Where in the H--L did you find THAT for THAT price!!??

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:21:45 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

In a message dated 10/4/98 10:12:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dreamer@brokersys.com writes:

<< I remember when I was a freshman in college.  I spyed a girl with a sheet
of paper in
 front of my in micro-economics.  On the sheet, I saw some statistics.
 
 Then, I noticed that one of the stats read:  JOT-2
 
 So, I leaned up over her shoulder, not knowing this girl from Adam, saying,
"So, you
 play Traveller?" >>

Hope you married her :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: GT: heavy cargo tender

Christopher Thrash writes:
> In the real world, these are called LASH (lighter-aboard-ship), BARCAT, or
> SEABEE (brand names) freighters.  Barges or sections of barges are lifted
> aboard the ship fully loaded, carried to their destination, and dropped off
> to be towed into port by tugs.  Not only does this reduce port time as you
> suggest, but it also allows deep draft ships to unload in the roadstead
> while their cargo is pushed inland on rivers to unload wherever needed.
> The main problem is utilization:  most destinations don't have enough
> return tradegoods to keep the barges and lighters full, so many of them
> come back empty.
Actually, given the way my designs work, I suspect for some types of load, the
most efficient method of handling transport is to use cheap or collapsible
cargo containers.  For example, if you're taking out 8 kilotons of cargo and
bringing back 3, the remaining kiloton might be sufficient for the other cargo
containers (broken up into large segments) and allowing the ship to use J-1 to
go out, J-2 to return, and cutting 25% off of transit time.  This is probably
easier to implement in zero-G than it would be in a regular water port ;).
> 
> I propose that, since TNE/RCEG (p. 129) already defines "lighters" as
> non-starships 100 dtons or greater, the term "LASH freighter" refer to
> cargo vessels that carry streamlined riders (for low tech/D-E starport
> worlds), while "freight tender" or "cargo tender" refers to the modular
> version above with large, unpowered barges, and "container ship" refers to
> specialized freighters that carry general cargo internally in standard
> containers.

For the core ship, there probably isn't much difference between a LASH and a
cargo tender -- just some differences in the external grapples, and might be
simple enough to be done in a few hours without a shipyard.
> 
> One design caveat:  dton for dton, SDB's are much heavier than cargo
> lighters or barges, yet external grapples are rated based on the weight
> (mass) they can hold.  I had a hard time fitting SDB's to a LASH freighter;
> I finally had to carry 400 dton SDB's one-for-one in place of 800 dton
> (streamlined) lighters.

Well, that may or may not be a serious problem -- depending on how the primary
vehicle is designed, this may be enough to bump up jump performance, which
would be sort of useful.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:37:23 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur 

> In a message dated 10/5/98 12:51:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
> shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
> 
> <<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>
> 
> No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
> talking about them?

You betcha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:35:44 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

I've always had the sneaking suspicion that I never had this skill quite
right since my CT days.

The way I used JOT, it let you try things you didn't have the skill for. If you
had the skill, you had to use it instead - even if you have JOT-3 and
Vac Suit-1.

If you didn't have the skill, JOT let you give it a shot - either with a
negative (for tasks you couldn't even try without the skill, like retuning
a jump grid), or without the penalty for no appropriate skill (like Bribery
or Streetwise). Which tasks were which was up to me as GM, but
I tried to keep it consistant - though the player who tried to communicate
with some aliens through JOT was amusing, he improvised some
charades/sign language to get a point across.

I only had one character in my campaign with more than one level of JOT, 
so didn't have to worry much about what extra levels of this enabler skill 
allow - I just gave her +1 on skill rolls for her JOT-3 when trying things she 
lacked skill for, and still applied the negatives for when she tried things
that were normally unatemptable without the appropriate skill.

(Cut to footage of her trying to reprogram a Zho warbot by bonking it
on the head with a big wrench...)

(-3 for no skill, -3 for no appropriate tools, cut to footage of her
being carried off to the Zho landing site by the reactivated warbot...)

I saw JOT as more of an attitude than a skill. It represented a can-do
aspect of a person, someone willing to improvise and give it a shot.

Was I close? How did others run this skill?


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:48:50 -0700
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:

>  So, I leaned up over her shoulder, not knowing this girl from Adam, saying,
> "So, you
>  play Traveller?" >>
>
> Hope you married her :-)

LOL!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:54:06 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long) 

> In a message dated 10/4/98 10:12:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> dreamer@brokersys.com writes:
> 
> << I remember when I was a freshman in college.  I spyed a girl with a sheet
> of paper in
>  front of my in micro-economics.  On the sheet, I saw some statistics.
>  
>  Then, I noticed that one of the stats read:  JOT-2
>  
>  So, I leaned up over her shoulder, not knowing this girl from Adam, saying,
> "So, you
>  play Traveller?" >>
> 
> Hope you married her :-)

I'd say it was a helluva good start.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:02:06 -0400
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS and Munchkins

>I suspect this is an example of Grisham's Law: bad xxx drives out good
>xxx. Ie. an early group of munchkin GURPSers drove out more mature gamers
>to other systems.


I haven't posted in a very long time since I've been pretty busy. I just
couldn't resist this one though. Here's what I'm wondering: how could bad
RPGers drive out good ones?

I've never really understood this one (people also apply it to music and
movies). It's not like SJ Games has put one munchkin supplement after
another (in fact, many of the supplements I've seen are rich with
role-playing opportunities).

Is there some sort of role-playing "clique" involved that I don't know
about? For example, recently my group decided that they'd rather play AD&D
instead of Traveller, so going with the desires of the group I decided it
was best to go with them. They stated their cases eloquently for the most
part, and it was all good.

Now, despite the fact that munchkin gamers exist (and will exist under any
system, in the past I've seen a couple of people on this list that could be
described as such in the past, I haven't been keeping up on the list
recently though), and AD&D is universally reviled as a munchkin system,
there was no munchkinning to be seen for miles.

I really do want to know how munchkins drive out good players. This is a
legitimate question. Are people afraid of being ridiculed by their peers if
they say "I'm running an AD&D/GURPS"? Is there some warped sense of "cool"
among role-players that I'm not privy to?

Or is there something else entirely? I'd really like to know.

Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brannon Boren <brannonb@animal.blarg.net>
Subject: Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Walter Smith wrote:

> I saw JOT as more of an attitude than a skill. It represented a can-do
> aspect of a person, someone willing to improvise and give it a shot.
> 
> Was I close? How did others run this skill?

The "vet'ran Scout" in my game is fond of this reply:

"Hey Scout, can you do that?"

"Sure... in a pinch."

He's a JOT-5  ;)

Ben

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #889
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 890



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Slightly off topic...BTRC
Re: firearms safeguards in the future
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Blank Subsector Map
(was "It Isn't Traveller")
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Re: (was "It Isn't Traveller") 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur (off-topic?- long)
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Minor Race: Addaxur
Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: (was "It Isn't Traveller")
Re: Re GURPS
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Dice Conversion chart
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:15:50 -0500
From: "Andy Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Slightly off topic...BTRC

Hey, does anyone know where the BTRC page went?

Is Greg still reachable electronically?

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                         |
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:32:06 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: firearms safeguards in the future

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: firearms safeguards in the future 
>
>>   It's a very limited case, but by installing psionic switches the
>> Thought Police and similar Zho groups (Guards, naval officers) would
>> largely not have to worry about unauthorized weapon use - not that 
>> it's a big issue except where children and Imperials are concerned.
>
>Unless they meet an Imperial who's a trained telepath.  <grin>

  That may not work - if you can "flick" your sound system to play disk
8, tracks 3, 5, 6, to repeat 6, and then to shuffle disk 4 indefinitely,
then you can probably have your handgun (or FGMP-15) only be switched by
you flicking a sequence that another telepath is going to need hours to
figure (two Roman letters and two digits is ~60 K options?).

  IAC, your first shot had best count - Zho ERT's hardly bear thinking about.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:32:35 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
...
><<   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer
> at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements. >>
>
>But if I recall right, G:T also needs ("recommends") the Character Compendium,
>GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech 1&2, and Vehicles also.  I am a little old-fashioned;
>when I buy a game, I hope it has everything in it to play the game.  I can get
>by w/ just GURPS Basic and G: T...but only because I have 14+ years of other
>info to fall back on:  a player completely new to Trav would not have this
>benefit.

  The equivalent for Trav was Books 4, 5, 6, & 7, plus Striker (for the vehicle
design sequences), and if you didn't like HG ship design then you were SOL. And
you pretty much had to use 2300 AD material to build up your equipment catalogs.
You don't _need_ any of those books: I got most of those to support 2300 AD and 
CT, but may not even bother using them with G:T. AFter all, CT's "recommended"
book list would have been 40+ LBB's and ten or so 8.5x11" pubs... 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:32:51 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
...
>>   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still offer 
>> at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements.
>
>The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at *LEAST* 
>2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.  You need the core rules for 
>*everything*, G:T is just a background supplement, from what I've heard.  And 
>to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the 
>G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.  You're looking at 
>no less than 40 bucks minimum, maybe as much as 2-300 all tricked out.  G:T is 
>*NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.

  Which LBB had vehicle design? Which had detailed starship design (and even I
don't count HG, however much I like it)? The LBB's were playable as a stand
alone RPG - but so was SJG's Car Wars :>

  Nostalgia aside, it sounds like only the MT boxed set reached the standards
set above. (FWIW, if I run G:T this spring, I'll probably leave G:Space on the
shelf, as it's relatively useless to any experienced CT player).

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:48:45 -0400
From: steve daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com>
Subject: Re: Blank Subsector Map

Mike Basinger wrote:

> I'm looking for a blank subsector map in a editable graphical format (bmp, gif, etc...). Does anyone know where I can find one?
>
> Mike

I've got some.  Which format would you prefer?

Bloo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:51:20 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: (was "It Isn't Traveller")

><< DGPs _World Builder's Handbook_ for $1.95 and wept for joy like a little
> girl while doing a little dance, so I guess I'm still part of the club (or m
> aybe I'm just weird).
>  >>
>Where in the H--L did you find THAT for THAT price!!??


Secondhand book store -- the kind that sell old records, music, movies,
computer games, and comic books. You can occasionally find wondrous things
there when individuals get married and are forced to change their evil
gaming ways. The little burg I live in is blessed with two of these, and
nearby Louisville, KY and Nashville, TN have similar stores (I travel to
both cities relatively frequently).

My FLGS *still* hasn't gotten a copy of GURPS Traveller, though (argh!).

ObTrav: What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Swallow-class aerospace
fighter?

No, seriously, I have a question for the more scientifically endowed on the
list. I got a TNS message today that read (in part):

"The gas-giant planet Plistii, in the Lunion subsector of the Spinward
Marches, underwent a violent shudder beginning on 341-1115, causing some
small concern for the inhabitants of Quiru, one of Plistii's satellites
(Quiru/Lunion 2321)."

Why would this cause some any concern at all for the inhabitants of Quiru?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:56:19 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 10/5/98 12:51:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
> shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:
> 
> <<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>
> 
> No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
> talking about them?

Yes! 

- -- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:07:57 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

In a message dated 10/5/98 3:30:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au writes:

<< Well, leaving out the game system (I have printing #1 ... i.e. the bug-
ridden
 one) in areas other than the Task System ... >>

I understand this completely...it was my major turn-off when MT came out in
87.

<< I found that it did nothing to improve on the CTrav system.
I'd never liked it in the Digest Group magazines, and couldn't see why they
needed to add it to a Traveller game system that worked perfectly well.>>

I like it because for me it allows a finer control of the task difficulty...I
suppose you could say "just give DMs", but I like being able to make the task
a base difficulty AND be able to apply DMs if necessary.

<<Personally, the Sensor rules were, IMHO, another turn-off. I *preferred* the
approach of High Guard. I don't *want* a gearhead style approach.>>

Thats a reason I liked the Sensors for MT...it gave you a more tactical feel
than HG, but w/out being a "gearheaded" approach.  The "short range/long
range" approach just left nothing to the player...so what if you had a 6-G
ship vs. a 1-G ship...you only had 2 ranges!  With the sensor rules and the
abandoning of the 2-range system, manuever became a consideration.

<>

Now THIS I agree w/ wholeheartedly!  I want to be able to sit down with just a
peice of notebook paper and a calculator (and NOT a scientific calc!! <G>) and
turn out a ship in under 30 minutes.  With HG, I can do one in 10 min...with
MT, I can do one in 20-30 min.  I simply leave out the little things that take
to much figuring (control points, forex;  Crew calculation I use HG for
instead of basing it off of CP's).

<<So there is NO EXCUSE
WHATSOEVER for having a system as user unfriendly as MTrav/FF&S or GV2.
None.>>

I like the idea of being able to design my own units...but it has to be able
to be used in a RPG setting.  If it takes 4-6 hours, thats too long unless you
have no life!  :-)   Starship design for T4 could have been salvaged by having
a pre-made set of starship weapons to purchase (a la HG and MT).  For me, that
has always been the blocking point, designing the weapons to design the ship.
I cant think of anything else that had to be designed before building the
ship,, but I am sure someone will let me know if there is! :-)

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:24:56 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: (was "It Isn't Traveller") 

> No, seriously, I have a question for the more scientifically endowed on the
> list. I got a TNS message today that read (in part):
> 
> "The gas-giant planet Plistii, in the Lunion subsector of the Spinward
> Marches, underwent a violent shudder beginning on 341-1115, causing some
> small concern for the inhabitants of Quiru, one of Plistii's satellites
> (Quiru/Lunion 2321)."
> 
> Why would this cause some any concern at all for the inhabitants of Quiru?

Because the shifting would affect Plistii's magnetic field, affecting Quiru's 
weather patterns, among other things.  If it was a mass shift, it would affect 
tides & tidal stresses as well.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:25:56 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

In a message dated 10/5/98 8:47:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dberry@hooked.net
writes:

<< G:T is *NOT* playable by itself >>

 <<If it is so impossible, please explain what I was doing last
night with only a copy of the basic rulebook ****and ***G:T. >> 

I think that IS the explanation...you didn't have JUST GURPS: Traveller .  The
empasis on the "and" in the above statement was mine.

Please understand where I am coming from here...in order to be prepared to
play G:T if it turned out to be OK, I laid out $26.00 for the basic set, and
$26.00 for the Trav "supplement".  Then I find out I am "recommended" to get
Ultra-Tech 1 and 2, Vehicles, and Space to make the "supplement" a game.  

My problem is that I am disabled and on Social Security;  after paying rent,
utilities, food and the most basic personal necessities, I have approximately
$25 A MONTH left over.  This means that buying something, especially a game,
is a once-in-a-while treat for me.  Now I have to lay out $100+ to get a
complete game, when every other Trav system at least included the basics of
the game (quality of said system aside, it was something).  This rather
reminds me of the Warhammer system...which is expensive enough to begin with!

DustyLV769@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:38:25 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur (off-topic?- long)

  Or, Minor Races in the Zhodani Consulate
>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
...
><<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>
>
>No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
>talking about them?

  We just did :) We know (from AM: 4 - dirty Zho's) that they have an empire
[or reserve :( ] of ten systems in sub-sector G of Tienspevnekr, and were
discovered 300 years after the Zho's used jump drives to start expanding the
polity they'd established using STL (-5,120/~5,110). It's unclear how they
feel about losing the rest of their original (37 system) empire, but presumably
these were only lightly settled at best.

  It should be noted that both sub-sectors F & K of Tienspevnekr contain Droyne
worlds (AM:5), and that protecting them may have been a factor in rolling back
the Addaxur (speculation).

  There is some evidence (Droyne worlds are "isolated", though respected;
the Addaxur have a "reserve"; xenophobes are neutralized and bypassed) that
Zhodani society is not genuinely keen on having members that aren't both human
and culturally assimilated. While humans from ex-Imperial worlds can become
cultural Zhodani in a generation or two (and effectively identical, as their
psionic differences are stated as being non-genetic, and thus learned) there
doesn't seem to be any mention of non-humans being "Zhodani" (in which case
being absorbed simply means made over into an acceptable form, rather than
being fully integrated) in the way that there are Imperial Aslan and culturally
Aslan humans mentioned at length in AM:1.

  The Addaxur, as "six-legged carnivores from a high gravity world" may be
sufficiently alien to be difficult to use psionics with (see AM5) - if they're
a _non-psionic_ race they couldn't possibly participate in Zho society, which
would explain their isolation. Significantly, the G:T Aliens races listed may
all fall under this heading, which will make their treatment in the Consulate
rather hard to play (or GM). In any case the Addaxur almost certainly were
given Jump drive not too far into their 6,000 year old protectorate, but have
a very clear understanding of the importance of their border - they must also
be a conservative race (by now, ~1100, anyway) or they wouldn't still be an
essentially independent "minor" race.

  The Zhodani seem to consider unabsorbed (i.e. unassimiliated) worlds to be
marginal and are usually involved in ongoing efforts to absorb them (pps. 35,
39); being as conservative as they are patience is the basis of their
methodology
(it must be or they wouldn't have unabsorbed worlds inside of frontiers that
have
mostly been stable for hundreds or even a couple of thousand years).

  FWIW, G:T Aliens I doesn't appear to be covering the Addaxur, unless they're
the "Tyranosaur-like" critters referred to on SJG's web-site.

>From: dberry@hooked.net
>Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
....
>What, discuss Traveller here?  what *are* you think of...  <grin>

  Well, it is labelled as OT :>

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:33:27 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

>   Which LBB had vehicle design? Which had detailed starship design (and even I
> don't count HG, however much I like it)? The LBB's were playable as a stand
> alone RPG - but so was SJG's Car Wars :>

Book 2 had starship design & combat.  Elementary stuff, but still workable.
 
>   Nostalgia aside, it sounds like only the MT boxed set reached the standards
> set above. (FWIW, if I run G:T this spring, I'll probably leave G:Space on the
> shelf, as it's relatively useless to any experienced CT player).

It depends on how complex you want your game to be.  Do your players *REALLY* 
need to know the principles of a jump drive to turn it on & run it?

> The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

I like the High Guard system.  Sure, it doesn't break the design down further 
than the system level, but that's almost as gearheaded as I need to be.  I've 
never had the time to sit down and learn the MT system of doing things.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:39:30 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

In a message dated 10/5/98 11:29:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:

<<  The equivalent for Trav was Books 4, 5, 6, & 7, plus Striker (for the
vehicle
 design sequences), and if you didn't like HG ship design then you were SOL.
And
 you pretty much had to use 2300 AD material to build up your equipment
catalogs.
 You don't _need_ any of those books:  >>

I tend to agree w/ this, you don't need any of these to play.   But everything
you needed to get started (char creation, world gen, combat system, starship
design, etc) was all in the 3 LBBs.  What do you think that would go for now?
$25-$30 dollars?  Still a savings, in my book.  I am opposed to having to buy
multiple books just to begin to play the game...supplements are an entirely
different story, you can pick and choose at will.

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:05:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net>
Subject: Minor Race: Addaxur

Actually, I think Hans was asking because it's one of the races we are
putting in GURPS Trav Alien I, and we wanted to make sure there hadn't
been anything else canon on them other then the brief mention of a
six-limbed race from a high gee world in Alien Module: Zhodani.

Anyway, already done up details for 'em (though of course I suppose the
GURPS stats could be different than any for T5).



- -David

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:05:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net>
Subject: Minor Race: Addaxur

Actually, I think Hans was asking because it's one of the races we are
putting in GURPS Trav Alien I, and we wanted to make sure there hadn't
been anything else canon on them other then the brief mention of a
six-limbed race from a high gee world in Alien Module: Zhodani.

Anyway, already done up details for 'em (though of course I suppose the
GURPS stats could be different than any for T5).



- -David

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:53:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

> I tend to agree w/ this, you don't need any of these to play.   But
> everything you needed to get started (char creation, world gen, combat
> system, starship design, etc) was all in the 3 LBBs.  What do you think that
> would go for now? $25-$30 dollars?  Still a savings, in my book.  I am
> opposed to having to buy multiple books just to begin to play the
> game...supplements are an entirely different story, you can pick and choose
> at will. 

You could run G:Traveller on the one book plus GURPS Lite (which is free), and
would have dramatically more information than was in the 3 LBBs.  For that
matter, you could run the level of detail in the 3 LBBs without having the
Traveller book at all (basic+G:Space would give all the functionality of the 3
LBBs and a lot more).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:04:28 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: (was "It Isn't Traveller")

At 01:51 PM 10/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
<<snip>>
>No, seriously, I have a question for the more scientifically endowed on the
>list. I got a TNS message today that read (in part):
>
>"The gas-giant planet Plistii, in the Lunion subsector of the Spinward
>Marches, underwent a violent shudder beginning on 341-1115, causing some
>small concern for the inhabitants of Quiru, one of Plistii's satellites
>(Quiru/Lunion 2321)."
>
>Why would this cause some any concern at all for the inhabitants of Quiru?

Could be the Darrians testing their Star Trigger 'Lite', the 'Gas Giant
Trigger'



Kurt Feltenberger

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
habit.
- --- Aristotle ---

mailto:kurt@blazenet.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:18:48 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: Re GURPS

> From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@gulf.net>
> I'm all for people playing "interesting" characters.  Pick a
> disadvantage or whatever and play it.  You shouldn't have to get
> paid for it.

Hmm. That's not the way I look at it (when I GM at least.) Instead, I feel
that a character has 145 points to spend and must take -5 points worth of
quirks, and at least -40 points worth of disadvantages. I don't *allow*
people to take less (unless they really impress me with their explanation,
of course. Hasn't happened yet. ;-) I just find that a somewhat realistic
hero happens somewhere around 45 points worth of disadvantages.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:18:50 +0200
From: "Jonas Karlsson" <Jonas.Karlsson@baldakinen.umea.se>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

> From: DustyLV769@aol.com
>
>> The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
>> Space, including world and campaign building.
> Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the
> game...

Or, to put the foot on the other shoe (;-) to save us from having to buy the
*same damn rules* over and over and over and over again.

>remember when the LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?

Remember when TNE/DC/TW2K/that dino game made you pay for the same rules all
over again?

Me, I prefer the Gurps method. I prefer to get *new* material when I buy
games, not the same content duplicated...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:28:28 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dice Conversion chart

In a message dated 10/4/98 9:15:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
rboleyn@clear.net.nz writes:

<< >Basically, what I need is a simple chart for converting CT's 2-12 range
and
 >the target numbers such as
 >7+, 9+ etc. and T4's system, which basically flip-flops that, and GURPS 3d6
 >3-18 scale.
  >>

HALF DIE (All N = 3)	
Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	1	1	33%	1	33%	3	100%
	2	1	33%	2	67%	2	66%
	3	1	33%	3	100%	1	33%
	All N equals 3. .5D shows all outcomes from 1 to 3.

ONE DIE (All N = 6)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	1	1	17%	1	17%	6	100%
	2	1	17%	2	33%	5	83%
	3	1	17%	3	50%	4	67%
	4	1	17%	4	67%	3	50%
	5	1	17%	5	83%	2	33%
	6	1	17%	6	100%	1	17%
	All N equals 6. 1D shows all outcomes from 1 to 6.

ONE-AND-A-HALF DICE (All N = 20)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	2	1	5%	1	5%	20	100%
	3	2	10%	3	15%	19	95%
	4	3	15%	6	30%	17	85%
	5	4	20%	10	50%	14	70%
	6	4	20%	14	70%	10	50%
	7	3	15%	17	85%	6	30%
	8	2	10%	19	95%	3	15%
	9	1	5%	20	100%	1	5%
	All N equals 20. 1.5D shows all outcomes from 2 to 9. 

TWO DICE (All N = 36)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	2	1	3%	1	3%	36	100%
	3	2	6%	3	8%	35	97%
	4	3	8%	6	17%	33	92%
	5	4	11%	10	28%	30	83%
	6	5	14%	15	42%	26	72%
	7	6	17%	21	58%	21	58%
	8	5	14%	26	72%	15	42%
	9	4	11%	30	83%	10	28%
	10	3	8%	33	92%	6	17%
	11	2	6%	35	97%	3	8%
	12	1	3%	36	100%	1	3%	All N equals 36. 2D shows all outcomes from 2 to 12.

TWO AND A HALF DICE (All N = 216)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	3	2	1%	2	1%	216	100%
	4	6	3%	8	4%	214	99%
	5	12	6%	20	9%	208	96%
	6	18	8%	38	18%	196	91%
	7	24	11%	62	29%	178	82%
	8	30	14%	92	43%	154	71%
	9	32	15%	124	57%	124	57%
	10	30	14%	154	71%	92	43%
	11	24	11%	178	82%	62	29%
	12	18	8%	196	91%	38	18%
	13	12	6%	208	96%	20	9%
	14	6	3%	214	99%	8	4%
	15	2	1%	216	100%	2	1%	All N equals 216. 2.5D shows all outcomes from 3 to 15.
 THREE DICE (All N = 216)
Roll		N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	3	1	0.46%	1	0.5%	216	100.0%
	4	3	1.39%	4	1.9%	215	99.5%
	5	6	2.80%	10	5%	212	98.6%
	6	10	4.60%	20	9%	206	95%
	7	15	6.90%	35	16%	196	91%
	8	21	9.70%	56	26%	181	84%
	9	25	11.60%	81	38%	160	74%
	10	27	12.50%	108	50%	135	63%
	11	27	12.50%	135	63%	108	50%
	12	25	11.60%	160	74%	81	38%
	13	21	9.70%	181	84%	56	26%
	14	15	6.90%	196	91%	35	16%
	15	10	4.60%	206	95%	20	9%
	16	6	2.80%	212	98.6%	10	5%
	17	3	1.39%	215	99.5%	4	1.9%
	18	1	0.46%	216	100.0%	1	0.6%

THREE AND A HALF DICE (All N = 648)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	4	1	0.2%	1	0.2%	648	100.0%
	5	4	0.6%	5	0.8%	647	99.8%
	6	10	1.5%	15	2.3%	643	99.2%
	7	19	3%	34	5%	633	98%
	8	31	5%	65	10%	614	95%
	9	46	7%	111	17%	583	90%
	10	61	9%	172	27%	537	83%
	11	73	11%	245	38%	476	73%
	12	79	12%	324	50%	403	62%
	13	79	12%	403	62%	324	50%
	14	73	11%	476	73%	245	38%
	15	61	9%	537	83%	172	27%
	16	46	7%	583	90%	111	17%
	17	31	5%	614	95%	65	10%
	18	19	3%	633	98%	34	5%
	19	10	1.5%	643	99.2%	15	2.3%
	20	4	0.6%	647	99.8%	5	0.8%
	21	1	0.2%	648	100.0%	1	0.2%

FOUR DICE (All N = 1296)
	Roll	N	N%	N -	N -%	N+	N+%
	4	1	0.1%	1	0.1%	1296	100.0%
	5	4	0.3%	5	0.4%	1295	99.9%
	6	10	0.8%	15	1.2%	1291	99.6%
	7	20	1.5%	35	2.7%	1281	98.8%
	8	35	3%	70	5%	1261	97%
	9	56	4%	126	10%	1226	95%
	10	80	6%	206	16%	1170	90%
	11	104	8%	310	24%	1090	84%
	12	125	10%	435	34%	986	76%
	13	140	11%	575	44%	861	66%
	14	146	11%	721	56%	721	56%
	15	140	11%	861	66%	575	44%
	16	125	10%	986	76%	435	34%
	17	104	8%	1090	84%	310	24%
	18	80	6%	1170	90%	206	16%
	19	56	4%	1226	95%	126	10%
	20	35	3%	1261	97%	70	5%
	21	20	1.5%	1281	98.8%	35	2.7%
	22	10	0.8%	1291	99.6%	15	1.2%
	23	4	0.3%	1295	99.9%	5	0.4%
	24	1	0.1%	1296	100.0%	1	0.1% 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:28:33 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

In a message dated 10/4/98 3:25:12 PM Central Daylight Time, ashock@gte.net
writes:

<< 	All the discussion about various game systems has led me to decide to try
 to put down what I, as a fan of Traveller and a buyer of gaming products,
 would like to see in the next edition of Traveller. It has been some time
 since I have seen any of the materials for the proposed T 4.1/T5, so I am
 operating on old info here, and this is also something of a wish list..
 
 1. I would like to see T5 retain the character generation rules of T4 to a
 large part. I liked the number of skills that characters got; it seemed
 like the plan was to step back on that a bit in T5, and I would not like to
 see that. I WOULD like to see two skills go completely away; Recon and Jack
 of all Trades. (...) I'd like to see the  Charisma stat restored.

T5 plans to keep the basic character generation system of T4. The standard is
that characters get (on average) one skill per year. I think I'll still keep
Recon and JOT. All skills will be defined and include task examples that used
them in a variety of settings and situations. Charisma will not be added.

 2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
 END and DEX of the character discontinued. I would prefer there to be a
 calculated stat called Hits, based perhaps on 2x END +STR or 3x END, with
 wound effects for reaching the 1/3, 2/3 levels, and then of course death at
 0 Hits.

T5 retains the Str Dex End hit system, but introduces a variety of hit types
in addition to hits, in order to take into account the effects of heat, cold,
suffocation, etc. Some hits affect Int (temporarily) in order to produce
unconsciousness.

 3. I believe that the MT task system should be returned to the game. It is
 really not that complicated compared to a lot of games out there, and it
 gives very good results. It also eliminates the need to roll anything
 except 2d6, which, while I did not mind the half-die and the multiple dice,
 IMO complicates the game more than the MT system would.

There was a prolonged discussion of tasks some time back, and a draft of that
chapter was posted/ made available. It (unfortunately for some) retained 2.5D
for some tasks. It introduces a variety of task types for various situations
and has examples. My goal is to establish strong standards for task use and
make sure they are understandable.

 4. The combat system needs a bit of reworking. 

The combat system will be re-worked and be essentially task based. Extensive
task examples will be provided. I am working on interrupts and initiative.
 
 5. I would use a version of the QSDS. The
 concept of the USP could be retained. It should definitley be kept
 simple, IMO; I have more fun with QSDS and the ship design rules in GURPS
 Traveller than I have ever had with any version of FF&S. I am not a
 gearhead, and while there is nothing wrong with being one, the basic rules
 should not be aimed at gearheads.

The QSDS will be revised. It will be extended to 10,000 tons. A larger system
will cover larger ships.
THe USP becomes a Ship Card with appropriate blanks for data. It will be
integrated into the ship combat system.

 6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
 the TNE era.

Yes. Based on Equipment Cards and Weapon Cards, each of which carries the data
necessary for use.
 
 7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical. 

The book-included system probably won't be hex based.I'm considering several
optiopns (included Mayday) for a separate board game.
 
 8. ALIENS. Every other edition of Traveller has made you wait to play
 aliens.

I have a Minor Race Generation System in draft form. The concept is that these
"people" with variant physical and mental abilities compete for the same jobs
humans do. Some will be better suited for the jobs than humans (and some less
suited). 

 9. A few pages devoted to the history and structure of the Imperium,
 perhaps the map of Charted Space, and a map of the Core Subsector circa
 year 0 and the Regina subsector circa 1100.

OK. Probably yes.
 
 10. As regards the art; we do not need full color plates. 

Yes. Not much full color, buut some nice art.

 Marc Miller

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #890
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 891



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re: Transponders
Ship Registration processes (was re: Transponders)
Pliisti
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Tech advancement
Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re T5 Wants
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Not Quite Long)
Re: Dogs, but not Vargr
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Re GURPS
Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:41:29 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Transponders

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: re: Transponders
...
>> "Prime directive"? Are you sure that you've got the right universe? In any
>>case, reliable ship ID for internal security (and taxation?) purposes hardly
>>constitutes "Big Brother-ism". FWIW, I don't know that the 3I has a "free"
>>trade fetish, rather than a more general drive towards economic progress.
>
>The historical stuff I read concurning the Empire's origins was that they
>were a mechanisim to promote free trade.  As for the 'prime directive' I
>ment it's primary reason for existance.

  That considered, the Imperium has always shown a disconcerting interest
in the more mundane power political aspects of simply seizing every piece
of real estate that they think they can.

>As for tax and security I have no problem with a basic Ident system with
>antitamper systems.  What I was objecting to was the discription of a Black
>Box that recorded and transmited to all other Black Boxes the entire history
>of the ship including all stops and all ships met.  This system would be
>'big brotherizm' on turbo!  It would also be suicide to do this because any
>competant enemy would use this data to plan it's attack on you and the
>transponders signal as a homing beacon for their misiles.  In the orginal
>post it was said that these transponders could not be disabled.  How do you
>run or hide with your radio screaming "Here We Are!!!"?

 1) The Imperium will always be amateurs at "Big Brotherism" in the OTU so
long as the Zhodani are around. OC, the Zho's would disagree... ... but they
would, wouldn't they, the dirty mind-raping bastards :>

  Besides, Comrade, what's wrong with Big Brotherism?

 2) I also take exception with the description of the SDG transponders discussed
recently, and suspect that some inaccuracies have occurred. IIRC, these units
can stop transmitting, nor do they merrily inform everyone of everything they've
seen and done (although the same can't necessarily be said for drinking
sailors).

 3) Pretty much by definition the civilian data needed to plan strategic warfare
will be easily available to enemies of the Imperium; it is something of a byword
of current economic philosophy that the ideal for an efficient free market
system  <giggle> is an environment of free and accurate information flow.
The Imperium
will in any event make its' military data far harder to confirm than to merely
estimate accurately (although the latter may work better in the OTU than it has
tended to do in the last century).

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:04:20 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Ship Registration processes (was re: Transponders)

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Transponders
>
>Steven Hudson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Getting a new registry
>>and new owner on a ship shouldn't take long, a lot less time than it
>>would take for independent verification of the change to trickle through
>>backwater planets.
>
>  Doesn't the ship require any time to be brought from "scrapyard" status
>to putative spaceworthiness? If so, then the new ID could be disseminated
>sector-wide before the ship even passed its' final tests.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>It takes time to make a scrapyard ship spaceworthy, but it doesn't
>need a transponder until it flies. IMTU, the ship could get the
>transponder last, first, whenever the new owner bought it. He could
>even be bolting the transponder to the avionics array as the
>startport engineer is performing the safety inspection.

  OK, but seeings as everyone involved knows that the ship is intended
for reactivation as a starship (after all, millions of credits are changing
hands) allowing the re-registration to occur at the end of the process seems
suspiciously like deliberately creating problems for the system that proper
methods could eliminate effortlessly.

  For that matter, would the backer actually cough up the cash for the yard
without assurance that the starship would be issued the needed papers? Not 
very likely in the real world for anything over a few hundred thousand bucks.

>If YTU requires that a transponder be issued long enough in advance
>of first flight for the ID to be transmitted sectorwide (4-6 months),
>that's fine - but you still have transfer of ownership situations.

  I'm still unsure (and not being involved in a campaign, less than fully
concerned) as to how to handle this. Firstly, I suspect that it may matter
less than the ship having an authentic original registry, in which case
a problem only arises if trouble-free seizures of ships are anything but
extremely rare to begin with (even then, physical searches and paperwork
tracking will eventually start to mop these up unless the initial seizure
rate is very high).

  Secondly, I doubt that ownership changes of starships occurs very often
given their minimum value of some tens or hundreds of MCr - after all, this
isn't Star Wars where a ship worth some tens or hundreds of _thousands_ of
credits are won and lost over card games. 

  Lastly, odds are that in cases of disputed ownership failure to meet
standards in checking for liens or said disputes will render void ones'
claim to legal ownership; thus, a bank (or anyone dropping 15 MCr, or
their agent/counsel) will almost certainly insist on a delay, escrow,
or a payment schedule to allow meeting such standards, which may range 
from a commo radius of a sector (including foreign polities) or the 
entire State in question.

  Given the legitimate internal security issues raised by a fully equipped
central registry and their needed data resources, this may likely be an
attachment to the naval intelligence apparatus.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:09:36 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Pliisti

Another reason to be concerned:

'Hey, Bob, why do you think the gas giant our world orbits has suddenly,
after many years of stability, begun to roil and bubble?'

'Dunno. Could be the Ancients? They're behind everything else round here.
Say, have you seen my keys?'

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:34:31 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
>
>>   Which LBB had vehicle design? Which had detailed starship design (and
even I
>> don't count HG, however much I like it)? The LBB's were playable as a stand
>> alone RPG - but so was SJG's Car Wars :>
>
>Book 2 had starship design & combat.  Elementary stuff, but still workable.

  Don't you think that a 100-ton custom hull and Power Plant and Maneuver Drives
"A" is a bit much for a land speeder? :)

>>   Nostalgia aside, it sounds like only the MT boxed set reached the standards
>> set above. (FWIW, if I run G:T this spring, I'll probably leave G:Space
on the
>> shelf, as it's relatively useless to any experienced CT player).
>
>It depends on how complex you want your game to be.  Do your players *REALLY* 
>need to know the principles of a jump drive to turn it on & run it?

  Depends - but that info's in G:T not G:Space. Even if I run CT instead I'll
still have a copy or two of G:T around as "players handbooks" regarding the
background.

...
>I like the High Guard system.  Sure, it doesn't break the design down further 
>than the system level, but that's almost as gearheaded as I need to be.  I've 
>never had the time to sit down and learn the MT system of doing things.

  I mastered Striker, and wish that there were a HG for AFV's :>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:34:36 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Tech advancement
...
>>>Yes there is.  The system that makes the defence can always breal the
>>>defence.  Defence has always laged behind for this reason.  Can you name a
>>>time in history the defense was supperior enough to make a man invuneable
>>>against that times weapons?
>>
>>Civil War ironclads were nearly invulnerable to each other's cannon.
>>Early-to-mid 19th century (and 18th century) forts were essentially
>>invulnerable to any weapons ships could carry and had to be reduced by long
>>land-based sieges. 
>
>The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
>The harbor defense guns of that time could sink on easily.  They were 10 or
>more times larger than the ship mounted guns of that time.  The ironclads of
>that time were a failure but they were 'proof of concepts'.

  The above would be a highly questionable summation, to say the least. Early
ironclads were not failures (at least not in the `50's-`60's) and went a long
way towards making non-armourclad battleships obsolete in short order. IIRC,
there were numbers of duels during the war between Union warships and fortress
batteries of the South, and the conventional surface warships neutralized by
the Virginia were not themselves undergunned. Indeed, if the Merrimack was
undergunned then no warship of the period could have been adequately armed,
which was Mr. Johnson's point, I believe.

  As for being "underguned due to the weight of their armour", both Gloire and
Warrior were purpose built from the ground up and their armament load-out was
intentional (although trade-offs always occur, and armour was now the primary
competitor). If these vessels _couldn't_ be adequately armed due to their
defensive armour requirements, then the case against your original thesis is
proved.

  I would be interested in seeing a source for the comparative sizes of naval
warfare (including shore battery) gun sizes, rather than seige artillery. 

>The forts were defeated by the same type of force that built them which is
>what I said would happen with any technology.

  The WWI-era Russian forts of the Polish frontier districts were "defeated"
by the Imperial Germans largely ignoring them, which the conservative upper
ranks of the ground forces had discounted as a possibility.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:16:51 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

I have never run or played any Traveller other than Classic Traveller and
JOT was a wonderful skill.
It typically allowed those who had it (Scouts it seemed) to try stupid
things that they would not normally try.

Now, just because they were stupid, does not mean they didn't work or have a
snowball's chance of working.

JOT was one thing I like and if we are talking about T5 being traveller, it
would need JOT.
Infact, I use the Hero system now it could benefit from a JOT type skill.
I think it gives the GM and Player some ability to be flexible.

TV

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:30:29 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@gulf.net>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

Phil Kitching wrote:

> I agree with JOT, it doesn't seem to work anymore (I've deleted it from MTU).

I've always like JOT characters, but not the JOT skill. It probably
should continue to exist because some people like it, but I've
downplayed it (if not deleted it) from MTU as well.

> One of the things I did with the T4.1 draft chargen was to regroup all the
> skills so that (eg) Marine characters had tables for Leaders, Led and
> Support (plus 3 others).

<snip>

> I could probably post this stuff, but it might be too long for the TML and
> I don't think it is suitable for a website because it is still Marc's
> work in progress.

I'd like to see what you've done. If you don't want to post to TML, how
about sending it directly to those who are interested.

> >2. I would like to see the practice of taking damage directly off the STR,
> >END and DEX of the character discontinued. <snip>
> 
> I'd vote to keep the current CT/T4 mechanism.

Personally, I've gone both ways on this over the years.  I like dropping
the Stats with damage, but that only really works if the Stats are a
major part of the Asset used in the Task System.  Personally, I'm going
to leave the Stats alone (during the combat) and use a different damage
system where wounds of different levels raise all tasks by one or more
levels until healed.  Take a light wound and all tasks are one level
harder, serious wounds make all tasks two levels harder, incapasitating
wounds make all tasks three levels harder. All wounds also have tasks
involved to remain standing and conscious.

> I didn't think people were supposed to advocate task systems on the TML due
> to the resulting flame temperature :->

Bah humbug! ;->
 
Eris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:58:02 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Repulsor Question (GT related)
...
>b)  What reason is there to use a repulsor, instead of just swatting the
>missile with an X-ray laser? (same problem rises with the ranged nuclear
>dampers in TNE/T4.  If you can hit it with a damper, you can blow it up with a
>laser instead).

  The repulsor was a tremendously difficult system to get past, except possibly
at TL 14 (50t missile bay f9 penetrates a 50t rep-bay on 9+); at TL 15 the 50t
bay is f5 for 11+, while the 100 tonners start at f2 at TL 10, and increase by
+2f/TL until f9 at TL 15 - which requires a 15+, so even a squadron of ten 
fighters "linking" with a central gunships comp (not in the rules, BTW) still
wouldn't be able to pentrate the defenses of a proper warship.

  If your goal is to eliminate minor attritional damage from badly outclassed
units (escort vs. merchants, destroyer vs fighters, or cruiser vs. DD, etc.)
then the repulsor stops those wartime-use nukes while allowing continuation
of a mission w/o significant cumulative damage requiring premature return to
repair facilities.

  Are they technologically accurate? Don't know, but they are in CT/HG the same
as jump drives, and they weren't a dominant system in the TCS runs, AFAIK.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:58:15 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature  (long responce)
...
>Unacceptable.  If you do not know how they work in general you can not let
>the interact with your players.  You can not know what will and will not
>work when they try it.  What level of forgery and electronics does it take
>to forge the BB?  What is the difficulty rating?  What is the task time?

  These tasks are listed (unofficially at least, and officially too, IIRC).

>These MUST be known and do not say 'it can not be done'.  Everything can be
>done that does not inherently break the laws of the universe and even those
>thing can be done by work arround or if need be leaving the universe as in
>'jump drive'.  Sayinf to your player 'you can't do that' is wrong.  Saying
>that the attemp failed is ok but you must know how it could be done or you
>are not playing fair with your player and are cheating them.  It is the job
>and the duty of the GM to make the rule consistant and play by them.

  The possibility exists that it is only possible at TL 15-16 with the use
of the original Cymbeline chip stock; the IN's behaviour in Signal GK is
consistent with this theory, and _someone_ nuked Cymbeline during the 
Rebellion, likely for this same reason.

  If this does comprise a needed component to compromise the canonical
SDG's at normal Trav techs, then attempts to do so are otherwise going
to fail.

        Steven Hudson
  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:50:32 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re T5 Wants

Everyone else seems to be posting their two bits on the subject, so I'll
join the crusade:

JOT: Keep it. It is part of the feel of traveller for me.

Tasks: I lvoe the MT task system. OK, maybe a 3d variant would work
better... But I love the fact that players ALWAYS roll the same number of
dice, and know how to figure the chances quickly. And, the player's guide
to tasks was only 1 page, which I always copied and handed to my players.

TNE's d20 system was cumbersome, simply due to math in play or having 5
assets written down on a sheet, as P.N. did.

Combat Systems: I like Striker, and I like MT. Either one (they are very
similar) is good for me. TNE was too NON-lethal to PC's... I won't repeat
my usual example unless asked.
	I LOVED MT's method: each die of attripute damage did one hit. When
out of HP's, you're a "Mission Kill"... whether you live or die, and
Injuries to attributes are handled "Post Combat" - to me, this represented
the adrenaline level drop post-combat. Also, MT was the only combat system
for traveller where a .22 cal pistol might kill someone of average stats
without GM fiat or house rules.

Aliens: Deluxe Traveller (CT) included capsule alien rules for Zhodani and
Aslan characters (shortened from the original _Contact!_ articles in JTAS).
ENough to play them. A one page for a couple of alien races would be
valuable. Far more valuable than Chris Foss' contributions to traveller.

Equipment: a Good, broad spectrum of TL 7-15 stuff, preferably a single
text entrie with stats for the different TL's.

CGen- The T4 system did fairly well, but I felt that more careers than the
10 were needed. I'd like to see all the ones from MT/(CT)supp4 as well as
the new one from T4. I like the one skill roll per year. If anything, I'd
DROP getting skills from promotions or commissions, but keep them for
special duty's. I'd like to see an "advanced system" ala
Merc/HD/Scouts/MP/MT in a supplement, possibly with more careers yet, as
well as several new types of schooling.

Economica: Fix some of the broken bits. Take more space and give better
tables. But keep the feel (even if the details change)

TAS: IMTU, it will always be High Passages, every other month, with a MCr1
cash up front to apply; 90% rebate if rejected without good cause, no
rebate if rejected for cause. If you got ther rebate, You may reapply in 4
years... An membership is non-transferrable, and for natural life.

Ship Construction GT has this about right. Simple, fast, and no power
constraints. A more detailed system should be available. Personally, I like
the detail of MT, but anyhting more is annoyign to me. I DETEST FF&S2...
too pickayune, and poorly worded.

Art: Good quality B&W line or grayscale art. The best part of T4, IMNSHO,
is the B&W pencils... they really gave a "Look" to the TU.



William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:41:40 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@citnet.com>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Not Quite Long)

- -----Original Message-----
From: CardSharks@aol.com <CardSharks@aol.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

Snipped
> 7. Ship combat rules should be simple, hex-based, and tactical.
>
>The book-included system probably won't be hex based.I'm considering
several
>optiopns (included Mayday) for a separate board game.
>
Snipped
>Marc Miller

Marc,

In reference to this I would like to add my own wishes to the list.

I've been one of the proponents of a Role-Playing ship-to-ship combat
system. I would like to see one (albeit simple) added to the core rules of
T5. In relartion to a Role-playing game, it simply makes more sense to me.
Additional material for supplimental war gaming is definately a GOOD THING,
but the core rules should address the role playing aspect.

As I've said, rather a long time ago now, One of the biggest drags I've seen
is switching to a war game mode in the middle of a game where most of the
players not directly involved, or not interested, dirft off.

Please, please, make some effort to include material that can be used for
this. Currently I tend to use a (ever increasing) number of tasks and a
results chart for the players attacks agains other craft, and simple results
chart for attacks agains their own craft, with them role playing the
activities resulting from hits.

Mike Peters, Letterworks@CITnet.com
"For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's
sake. The great affair is to move."
Robert Louis Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:14:42 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Dogs, but not Vargr

On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:21:17 -0400, shadow@krypton.rain.com
(Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>>> There is a great novel with telepathic wolves.
>>> Vernor Vinge, Fire on the Deep, IIRC.  The wolves are only intelligent in
>>> packs of 3-6, and they all see through each others eyes.

Subintelligent in threes.  Some packs have been known to go
larger than six, but it's rare (Amdiranifani was one example).

>> The Tines weren't telepathic.  They 'networked' with ultrasound.  Great 
>> concept for a player race, though...

>The tines alsao show up in one other story by Vinge. It's set on a
>planet just inside the slow zone.

Y'know, you're a real bastard.  You drop a tidbit like this, and
you say _nothing_more_ about the story in question.  No title, no
collection, no ISBN, no publisher, no _nothing_.  C'mon, GIVE.
Bastard.

>Tines *would* be a neat addition to Traveller. And a Tine/Hiver
>alliance would be scary. The Hivers might be able to talk the Tines
>into "designing" individuals again. 

I've been trying to come up with a way of bringing the Tines into
Traveller.  Chargen promises to be a _bitch_.

>That "harmless" ambassador and his staff (possibly as many as a dozen
>"persons") may be able to rearrange into a crack espionage or combat
>team simply by reconfiguring their comm links. 

>Luckily, it takes *very* unusual circumstances to be able to handle
>that sort of multiple personality. And Tines would find it distasteful
>for reasons obvious to anyone who has read "A Fire Upon the Deep". 

Yah.  IMTU, if the Hivers ever suggest this to the Tines, I think
there will be a _violent_ reaction.  The legends of Flenser and
Steel will _not_ be forgotten.

>Tine character generation would be interesting. I'd say that you
>generate UPPs for each body, with some extra "mental" characteristics.
>And you have rules for how to combine the "mental" characteristics into
>that of the "person". 

Physical, too - remember how a pack needs to cooperate to do
human-type manipulations of some things - and can't with others.
Plus limits on some physical combinations; you can't have all six
members of a pack poking at that little PC; you're limited to
two, maybe three.

And herein lies (one of) the rub: how to set this up so that it
models AFUTD reasonably well, while making the character neither
too powerful nor too weak to fit in with the Traveller universe

>Adding and losing bodies would affect the person, as would damage to
>bodies.

...which is another tough spot - you'd want to model this, and
make it part of character generation.

Even nastier: adding and losing members would affect _skills_.
You might find it necessary to at least partially model the
creation of a character that was mostly killed, to develop a
skill set for a member to bring in.

(And you thought that rolling up a K'kree family-herd was bad!)

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:56:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Steven Hudson writes:
> 
> Are they technologically accurate? Don't know, but they are in CT/HG the same

> as jump drives, and they weren't a dominant system in the TCS runs, AFAIK.
> 
>         Yours truly,
>                 Steven Hudson

Not questioning _whether_ they were useful; questioning what the excuse for
them being useful was.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:01:58 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

At 03:25 PM 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Please understand where I am coming from here...in order to be prepared to
>play G:T if it turned out to be OK, I laid out $26.00 for the basic set, and
>$26.00 for the Trav "supplement".  Then I find out I am "recommended" to get
>Ultra-Tech 1 and 2, Vehicles, and Space to make the "supplement" a game.  

You are reading too much into this.  You could easily play a decent
Traveller game using just GURPS and the G:T book.  The others listed are
options.  Much like an auto comes with a list of options that make it more
comfortable or flashier, but aren't essential to the basic concept of
transportation.

I own all the recommended GURPS books, and to be honest I'm going to take
very little out of each of them to convert to my CORPS: Traveller game.
The only one I would really recommend is Space, for some pretty good rules
on different environments and gravities, along with some other tidbits.

UT 1 & 2 are nice, but much of the technology leans towards the space opera
"blasters and force shields" school of SF.  Some good ideas to be mined.
Both of those books can be found in the used pile.  Don't buy Vehicles
unless you are a real gearhead.  Speaking as a FFS2 fanatic, I find it
annoyingly complex.  (Using Imperial measurements is a real head ache when
gearheading.)

For a different flavor, and a decidedly non-canon feel, look for Biotech.
My Zhodani use more bioengineering than the 3I, more reason to hate them!
Cyberpunk can be a gold mine of ideas on computer systems.  And so on..

The point is that GURPS and G:T provide a usable framework for games.  The
meat is provided by the Referee, wether that be by way of GURPS books or
personal development.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:10:52 -0700
From: dberry@hooked.net
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

At 04:28 PM 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:

>The QSDS will be revised. It will be extended to 10,000 tons. A larger
system will cover larger ships.

Will also get yet another version of FFS for us gearheads?  Having that
basis for building modules for the QSDS makes everything work nicely.

>THe USP becomes a Ship Card with appropriate blanks for data. It will be
>integrated into the ship combat system.

Hmm.. hopefully, these will be far more useful than the obscenities that
made it into Imperial Squadrons.
- --

Douglas E. Berry
Templar Agent at Large.
dberry@hooked.net  
http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/gateway.html 

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  5 Oct 98 18:15:00 EDT
From: carioca@stratos.net (Aerron Winsor)
Subject: Re: Re GURPS

At 12:16 PM 10/5/98 -0500, traveller@MPGN.COM wrote:
Some one wrote:

>
>I do believe that you should get "paid" for some of the disadvantages,
>but NO where near the point values I have seen so far.  also I think
>that every character should have one disadvantage (required) without
>being paid for it (to help make the character interesting).  I advise
>this in the Traveller games I run ("give me a character flaw or quirk")
>
No Problem, instead of 100 points give them 145 and pick out some disads for
no points, ballanced just the same.  

but a quirk is only -1 point anyway.  :)
**-----------------------------------------------------------**
"People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting,
but SERIOUS professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a
warm place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally
hard to get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time."
                 -T.Pratchett, SMALL GODS

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:15:17 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

From:           	Walter Smith <SmithW@hartwick.edu>
To:             	"'TML'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>

>I've always had the sneaking suspicion that I never had this skill quite
>right since my CT days.

[snip]

>Was I close? How did others run this skill?

I use JoT as an "extender". I use the T4 task system, but I added the idea of 
"prerequisite" skill levels for certain tasts ("I don't care how good your dex is, 
you can't do open heart surgery with Medical-1, its got a prerequisite of at least 
Medical-3"). However you can add your JoT level to your skill to get around 
these prerequisites (eg if the character has Medical-1 and JoT-2, they can 
attempt open heart surgery), however the JoT doesn't improve your chances (ie 
you are still using just Medical-1 to resolve the task). I've found that this makes 
it a very useful skill and seems to represent the "give it a go" feel of JoT.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  5 Oct 98 18:15:13 EDT
From: carioca@stratos.net (Aerron Winsor)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

At 03:25 PM 10/5/98 EDT, traveller@MPGN.COM wrote:


>
>Please understand where I am coming from here...in order to be prepared to
>play G:T if it turned out to be OK, I laid out $26.00 for the basic set, and
>$26.00 for the Trav "supplement".  Then I find out I am "recommended" to get
>Ultra-Tech 1 and 2, Vehicles, and Space to make the "supplement" a game.
********8
the UT book are just gadgets, not really needed.
space is a great book for a beginning GM, but not really needed exept for
the system creation tables.(and I am sure you have some rules for this don't
you?)
You only need vehicles to make your own gravtanks and such.
  

>$25 A MONTH left over.  This means that buying something, especially a game,
>is a once-in-a-while treat for me.  Now I have to lay out $100+ to get a
>complete game, when every other Trav system at least included the basics of
************
but you have all you need to run it, you don't *need* anything else....
>
be be honest here did *all* other trav systems have all the rules in the
basic set?

or did you need say.....Books 4-N plus striker......or FF&S ......in order
to make your own stuff?
**-----------------------------------------------------------**
"People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting,
but SERIOUS professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a
warm place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally
hard to get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time."
                 -T.Pratchett, SMALL GODS

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #891
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 892



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re GT
Re: MT Task System
Re Disads
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re JOT
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill
RE: Reunning GURPS Traveller
Re T5 wish list
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Re T5 Wants
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re Hero Traveller and JoT
Re: Re: GURPS and Munchkins
Re:GURPS Traveller Questions
Re: Blank Subsector Map
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re: MT Task System
"Companions of the Road" by M.W. Miller
Re: Re Hero Traveller and JoT
Re: Re Transponders

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:01:58 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re GT

At 08:30 5/10/98 -0700, Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>At 12:41 AM 10/5/98 GMT, you wrote:

>>>There is an easy solution for the rules-rapist who takes "one-hand" as a
>>>disad then wants points for each finger; you say "not in my game."
>>
>>Or, even better, you simply say, "fine ... yes, a one armed, crippled, one
>>eyed ex-marine with the entire universe hunting him on a 9- is OK ... but
>>there're no points in it". See how many you get.
>
>Why do that?  Just role-play the situation.  Put the guy in a situation
>where his physical problems prevent an escape just as all those enemies
>show up loaded for bear...

IME the problem here is that the rest of the party sticks around out of a
sense of loyalty (often even if they haven't bought Sense of Duty) and get
wasted along with him. Even if this is because of their SoD they have just
gotten killed for 5pts, whereas the one who got them killed gets how many
more?

This is a general problem with hunteds, IMO. There is a real chance that
the whole party will become embroiled in the feud/hunt, but only one
character actually gets points for it.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:05:46 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re: MT Task System

Phil Rants (his term, not mine):
>I found the whole idea of the Task system counter-intuitive. I found it
>unweildy
>to describe and use. I found that it did nothing to improve on the CTrav
>system.
>I'd never liked it in the Digest Group magazines, and couldn't see why they
>needed to add it to a Traveller game system that worked perfectly well.

DGP of that era was producing a wonderfully useful mag, and their task
system worked for me. Funny thing tho... I find the Starplay task system
vaguely reminisant of MT's task system....

>Something *like* MTrav was needed ... I mean, a new, improved, expanded rule
>system. However, I have always been of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
>school of game design ... CTrav worked, from task resolution through to ship
>design ... MTrav didn't.

For you, maybe. But it did provide a wondeful framework, fromm which it
freed me of having to, as a ref, asign arbitrary task numbers and levels of
attribute for DM's. Admittedly, I tweaked it: +1 to target numbers and used
Att/3, to match up with HITS determination, and max DM +10. But it was (and
still is, IMO) the easiest of the task systems for trave to tweak for feel.
And, players always used 5 dice: 2 for success, and 3 for time--- I have
players use two colors of dice, and roll them once. WOrks well for me and
my playerrs. CT was inconsistant in methods. TNE was using multiplication
by fractions in play, or listing 5 assets in play... a real problem when
certain things (like certain pieces of equipment) add to base asset BEFORE
difficulty mods. T4 simply confused my player group at first, then made
them all realize they were GODLIKE in ability, in play at least, getting
far to many critical successes. Also, I like roll high systems, because
More is Better works for me.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:25:25 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Disads

>>Is it a law of nature that the only way a 30 (or 40) year old can learn
>>anything
>>is by losing limbs or gaining inimical enemies? I don't think so.
>
>No, this is a game-balance feature to _force_ munchkins to take a
>disadvantage. Otherwise all munchkin characters will be exceptionally
>healthy and sane.  Mature gamers generally don't need it. (Mind you, my
>definition of a "mature" gamer includes playing realistically-flawed
>characters for the fun of it, without the prod of game points.)

As a ref, if a player doesn't have some Psych Lims as part of the concept
or as a result of interpretation, I'll impose other disads upon a
character. Especially in Traveller... Things like old enemies, bad reps,
even good (but misleading) reps. IMTU, all scouts have compulsive carousing
at some level, all marines have a sense of duty to their fellow marines,
most naval types have either adrenaline addiction or some major attitude
problem, noble have a sense of duty to the imperium, etc. Players who don't
generally need to explain their rationale for lacking such psych lims. But
I don't like having to have them wriiten down... because I find that the
more is wriiten down and mechanicalized, the less role-playing and more
rule-playing occurs.

	One of Peters most memorable characters was a flaming bisexual
cassinove with a speciesist attitude. A wonderful Devil-may-care sex-fiend
rocket-jockey... And this in a campaign where a male scout wound up married
to a male marine general due to scout brew and ZPG laws on earth.... These
are not the type of things I see happening in character construction
systems (Point-based or pool based {ala WWG's WOD}) very often. But they
are the type of Flawed Heros I like to GM for.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:30:06 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Jens \"Spacejens\" Rydholm" <spacejens@h72.ryd.student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 Marc Miller wrote:

> No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
> talking about them?

Certainly.

This system... will it be included in T5? When can we begin to expect T5?

+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Jens "Spacejens" Rydholm    http://spacejens.ml.org     |
| jenry023@student.liu.se     Telephone: +46(0)13-4730961 |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745            Linkping, Sweden           |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU ?tc t4 ru ge+ 3i- jt+ a ?st ls kk++ hi+ as++ va++  |
|      ?dr so- zh ?da sy+                                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
|               In politics, left is right!               |
+---------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:31:07 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re JOT

>I saw JOT as more of an attitude than a skill. It represented a can-do
>aspect of a person, someone willing to improvise and give it a shot.
>
>Was I close? How did others run this skill?
>
>
>Walt Smith

I used it in two ways. Note: I use a slightly tweaked MT task system.

1st: if you have the skill, it is the number of retries allowed without
rolling a determination task.

2nd: If you lack the skill, a Difficult, (Edu{for knowledge based} or
Int{for other stuff})and JOT, instant, fateful (no retries), safe. Success
grants a temporary level-0 in the needed skill, for ONE type of task, and
if that succeeds, will grant one AT towards acquiring Level 0, if elligible.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:34:28 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

> Nor would they have the necessary world generation system to generate homebrew sectors.  Planetary and system generation rules are in G:Space.  As is, G:T isn't standalone even with the core rules.  The LBB's *were*.

Yea, So, MT wasn't. Unless you bought the boxed set.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:55:37 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

DustyLV769@aol.com wrote:

> I think I have finally hit on a metaphor that perfectly sums up my feelings
> re: Traveller and GURPS Trav...remember the difference between Coke (now Coke
> Classic) and New Coke?   Coke is Coke...but obviously not to a large majority
> of folks out there (is New Coke even available anymore?)

Coke, I thought that Coffee and Mountain dew were the "Official" Drinks of
theTravelling world.

> DustyLV769@aol.com  (writing this after taking 2 Percocets  %-)



- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Solus Stellamilitia Ludus, 1998 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:29:18 -0400
From: ringrose@ascent.com
Subject: Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

  Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:16:51 -0500
  From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>

  I have never run or played any Traveller other than Classic Traveller and
  JOT was a wonderful skill.
  It typically allowed those who had it (Scouts it seemed) to try stupid
  things that they would not normally try.

Personally, I hate JOT.  It's great fun for the person who has it --
and boring for everybody else.

If you want to try something, you should have the skill.
If you don't have the skill, you should try to come up with some skill
which is appropriate.
If you don't have something appropriate, come up with a skill which is
remotely related to an appropriate skill.
And so on, as your chances of success rapidly approach the typical
snowball in the flames of hell.

The thing is, _everybody_ gets to try to see if they have something
appropriate.


On the other hand, if _anybody_ in the group has Jack-of-all-Trades
that person gets to do _everything_ which falls through the cracks.
Wracking your brain to find ways to make your skills appropriate is
gone -- if your skills are inappropriate, just give the problem to the
person with JOT, let him solve it, and yawn.  I know a couple of
people who tend to create dynamic-do-all characters, and if the group
ends up in an unfamiliar situation it just gets boring.

IMO: In a skill-based system, the way to do jack-of-all-trades is to
have the jack learn a bunch of mutually unrelated skills, and let him
use them just like any other character.  Expensive, and your spreading
out over lots of things weakens your strengths, which is exactly the
way it should be.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ascent.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:37:26 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: RE: Reunning GURPS Traveller

>
>>>   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still
>>>offer
>>> at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements.
>>
>>The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at
>>*LEAST*
>>2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.  You need the core rules for
>>*everything*, G:T is just a background supplement, from what I've heard.
>>And
>>to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the
>>G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.  You're
>>looking at
>>no less than 40 bucks minimum, maybe as much as 2-300 all tricked out.
>>G:T is
>>*NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.
>
>  Which LBB had vehicle design? Which had detailed starship design (and even I
>don't count HG, however much I like it)? The LBB's were playable as a stand
>alone RPG - but so was SJG's Car Wars :>

Striker. Admitedly NOT part of the Bk0-5 set, but it was another set of
LBB's. ;-)

>  Nostalgia aside, it sounds like only the MT boxed set reached the standards
>set above. (FWIW, if I run G:T this spring, I'll probably leave G:Space on the
>shelf, as it's relatively useless to any experienced CT player).

Agreed... BTW, CII has the environment and culture rules from G:Space, and
has some wonderful additional options....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:42:19 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re T5 wish list

One other bit of wish list for T5:

Psionics based upon those in the T4 base book. Probably the easiest to use
Psionics system I've encountered in Traveller. Psionics are a major bit
IMTU... peter complains I use them TOO much.... but a good Psionics system,
and one that supports the canonical Zhodani Teleport Marines at a PC level
are, IMO a GOOD THING.


William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:48:40 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:36:36 EDT, DustyLV769@aol.com

>In a message dated 10/4/98 16:51:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thrash@io.com
>writes:
>
><< The intent, as I understand it, was to not reproduce material in GURPS
> Space, including world and campaign building.
>  >>

>Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
>LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?

The combination of Basic and GURPS Traveller has a _lot_ more
material than exists in the LLB's.  While you have focused
on _one_ aspect (world generation system), the fact is that
one can always make up worlds non-systematically while the
Little black books (unless you want to include more than the
first few books, ie _all_ the CT material published) required
you to come up with your own background.

The fact is that you _can_ get started on one shot.  I ran a
GURPS Traveller campaign one what I wrote myself (before GT
came out) that had much less material.

Now, there has been some expression of dislike by those who honestly
don't care for the GURPS system and have similar objections.
What has disappointed me has been attempts by others to use
the trade offs that space limitation force, by  necessity, to
pick at things that couldn't be included in the first book and
try and blow them up as major  things.  There seems to be a small
faction out there that seems to just wants it to fail and looks for
bad things to say about it.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:40:30 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re T5 Wants

At 13:50 5/10/98 -0800, William F. Hostman wrote:

>Everyone else seems to be posting their two bits on the subject, so I'll
>join the crusade:
>
>JOT: Keep it. It is part of the feel of traveller for me.

I never really liked it outside of CT. Once MT turned up with its multitude
of skills I felt that was either redundant or too powerful depending on how
the GM treated it.

>Tasks: I lvoe the MT task system. OK, maybe a 3d variant would work
>better... But I love the fact that players ALWAYS roll the same number of
>dice, and know how to figure the chances quickly. And, the player's guide
>to tasks was only 1 page, which I always copied and handed to my players.
>
>TNE's d20 system was cumbersome, simply due to math in play or having 5
>assets written down on a sheet, as P.N. did.

I've never found having to multiply or divide by 2 or 4 to be a whole lot
harder than remembering the target level for Difficult, Average, etc in MT.

>Combat Systems: I like Striker, and I like MT. Either one (they are very
>similar) is good for me. TNE was too NON-lethal to PC's... I won't repeat
>my usual example unless asked.
>	I LOVED MT's method: each die of attripute damage did one hit. When
>out of HP's, you're a "Mission Kill"... whether you live or die, and
>Injuries to attributes are handled "Post Combat" - to me, this represented
>the adrenaline level drop post-combat. Also, MT was the only combat system
>for traveller where a .22 cal pistol might kill someone of average stats
>without GM fiat or house rules.

In TNE any .22 can kill an NPC with one hit (and you don't need to be
shockingly skilled, either).

>Economica: Fix some of the broken bits. Take more space and give better
>tables. But keep the feel (even if the details change)

As far as I can tell (though I know next to nothing about economics) if the
OTU's economics were to be fixed it wouldn't look much like the OTU anymore :(

>TAS: IMTU, it will always be High Passages, every other month, with a MCr1
>cash up front to apply; 90% rebate if rejected without good cause, no
>rebate if rejected for cause. If you got ther rebate, You may reapply in 4
>years... An membership is non-transferrable, and for natural life.

I'll go with the MT & TNE version: One high passage every other month, one
application per person, accepted unless blackballed, pay MCr1 upon
acceptance, membership for life and non-transferable.

>Ship Construction GT has this about right. Simple, fast, and no power
>constraints. A more detailed system should be available. Personally, I like
>the detail of MT, but anyhting more is annoyign to me. I DETEST FF&S2...
>too pickayune, and poorly worded.

I find MT to be worse than FF&S1 (don't have FF&S2), as it is just as
picky, and less flexible.

All IMHO, of course.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:04:21 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
...
>Not questioning _whether_ they were useful; questioning what the excuse for
>them being useful was.

  "Repulsors are large focussed anti-grav projectors. When directed at 
incoming missiles, they deflect them away from their target." (HG, p.19)

  In that case, the excuse is wildly unbelievable as they can't reasonably
stop anything other than contact missiles from impacting, let alone nuke-
dets at 50,000 km's. If they can somehow stop a single such missile at such
a great range (ignoring 10 or 30 TOT) then what is their effective range?
If they can break apart (which is what would be required, possibly) a missile
at 100,000 km then why can't they simply start folding and mutilating small
craft at those ranges (Voila! StarFires force beams make their appearance...)?

  IIRC, Mr. Akins had the excellent suggestion of redesigning repulsors as
rapid fire PD laser bays when converting to and from HG.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:55:02 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Hero Traveller and JoT

>JOT was one thing I like and if we are talking about T5 being traveller, it
>would need JOT.
>Infact, I use the Hero system now it could benefit from a JOT type skill.
>I think it gives the GM and Player some ability to be flexible.
>
>TV
For JOT under Hero:
	Use Cramming Talent (5 pts)[HSR p47, (HG Stock No #500)], possibly
with the +1 power advantage "also for combat skills". Having multiple slots
represents multiple levels of traveller JoT.
another possible PA: assume an adventure is one month, and buy down the
time at +1/4 per level, or even +1/2 per level.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:03:46 EDT
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: GURPS and Munchkins

In a message dated 98-10-05 14:07:40 EDT, you write:

>traveller@MPGN.COM

>>I suspect this is an example of Grisham's Law: bad xxx drives out good
>>xxx. Ie. an early group of munchkin GURPSers drove out more mature gamers
>>to other systems.


>I haven't posted in a very long time since I've been pretty busy. I just
>couldn't resist this one though. Here's what I'm wondering: how could bad
>RPGers drive out good ones?

>I've never really understood this one (people also apply it to music and
>movies). It's not like SJ Games has put one munchkin supplement after
>another (in fact, many of the supplements I've seen are rich with
>role-playing opportunities).

>Is there some sort of role-playing "clique" involved that I don't know
>about? For example, recently my group decided that they'd rather play AD&D
>instead of Traveller, so going with the desires of the group I decided it
>was best to go with them. They stated their cases eloquently for the most
>part, and it was all good.

>Now, despite the fact that munchkin gamers exist (and will exist under any
>system, in the past I've seen a couple of people on this list that could be
>described as such in the past, I haven't been keeping up on the list
>recently though), and AD&D is universally reviled as a munchkin system,
>there was no munchkinning to be seen for miles.

>I really do want to know how munchkins drive out good players. This is a
>legitimate question. Are people afraid of being ridiculed by their peers if
>they say "I'm running an AD&D/GURPS"? Is there some warped sense of "cool"
>among role-players that I'm not privy to?

>Or is there something else entirely? I'd really like to know.

>Chris "Cap'n Sparky" Seamans ( semo@pil.net )



THANK YOU  CAPN. SPARKY !!!!!!!!!!!


Thendal Kuhlbreez,
Haof Daemon Prince

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:04:15 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re:GURPS Traveller Questions

shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) writes:
>  FWIW, everything I'd heard on the 2300 AD mailing list (which, having
>_no_
>support is a bit more militant on this subject) indicated that Mr. Sanger
>is
>an extremely difficult individual to deal with, and that productive
>negotiations
>were improbable at best.

I'd say impossible. He was more than willing to have me write for him, but
when I mentioned payment... well, after that I never received even the
courtesy of a reply.

The "new" DGP is very difficult from the old DGP. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:09:13 EDT
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Blank Subsector Map

Hey Steve, 
You think you could send me a Blank Subsector Map sheet in BMP format.

I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thendal@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

Steven Hudson writes:
>   In that case, the excuse is wildly unbelievable as they can't reasonably
> stop anything other than contact missiles from impacting, let alone nuke-
> dets at 50,000 km's. If they can somehow stop a single such missile at such
> a great range (ignoring 10 or 30 TOT) then what is their effective range?

No requirement to do so.  Nuke-dets are not exactly CT canon, blame 'star wars'
for that idea.  High reliability at five kilometers is plenty to deal with
conventional missiles, and for an armored ship will also do a fine job against
medium-sized nuclear weapons (depending mostly on quality of radiation
shielding on a warship).  Give it a fifty-k range and no practical simple
nuclear weapon will be a threat.

> If they can break apart (which is what would be required, possibly) a
> missile at 100,000 km then why can't they simply start folding and
> mutilating small craft at those ranges (Voila! StarFires force beams make
> their appearance...)? 
Shrug.  Use something else for defense against det-lasers.  Short range
fold/spindle/mutilate on small craft is not clearly a problem ;)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:24:08 EDT
From: Thendal@aol.com
Subject: Re: MT Task System

What is Starplay?

Thendal

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:28:23 EDT
From: Diespamer@aol.com
Subject: "Companions of the Road" by M.W. Miller

Greetings All:

I was looking through some of last year's Traveller Digests, when I came
across this posting...

- --begin paste--

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:40:11 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Companions of the Road?

- - -> >  According to Shadis Magazine, Marc Miller has signed a contract with
- - -> >  Wisconsin based Corsair Publishing for a new *Fantasy* RPG titled
- - -> >  _Companions of the Road_ which should be out in August.
- - -> >  
- - -> >  Does anybody knows more about this?
- - -> 
- - -> I am working on this game with Corsair Publishing. What do you want to
know?

Well maybe a bit about the background... Will it be compatible to 
Traveller, maybe as a far off world somewhere in a rift, created by 
the ancients for social studies...
How it's different from the usual fantasy gamees and such... 

- --end paste--

Anybody hear anything from this one since last year?

Thanks!

Fred Kiesche
(Traveller Since 1977!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:18:25 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Re Hero Traveller and JoT

>For JOT under Hero:
> Use Cramming Talent (5 pts)[HSR p47, (HG Stock No #500)], possibly
>with the +1 power advantage "also for combat skills". Having multiple slots
>represents multiple levels of traveller JoT.
>another possible PA: assume an adventure is one month, and buy down the
>time at +1/4 per level, or even +1/2 per level.

I make it simple,
I use a couple of dice of luck.
Seems almost as quirky as JOT

TV

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:31:37 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re Transponders

At 05:23 PM 10/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Very reasonable and well reasoned...so far but what is the limits of data
>>stored and transmited in your estimation?  Is it just the Vehicle
>>Identification Number in the way of todays air craft transponders or is it
>>more.  In my campains so far I treat the BB as simple squak boxes and let
>>the ships purchase data bases to identify the ship by its' VIN.  The BBs do
>>not store any contact or other data.  Only the VIN.  They are 'reasonablly
>>foolproof' sealed with the VIN multiply redundantly stored and encoded.
>>Absolute verification comes from the database purchased from the Empires MM
>>and the equivalent of 'Janes Spaceships'.  If the squak does not match the
>>ships sensor 'fingure print' in the data base then you got reason to
>>investigate.  It is a fairly safe and effective cross checked system as the
>>data base is maitained and updated by the Empires Department of Ships
>>Registry.  Updates are available for a small fee at all class A & B
>>starports and can be considered part of the maitainence cost if you do not
>>want to have your PC have to deal with the detains.  All 'inspection' ships
>>are in the minimum registry by law and no ship is required to heave to for
>>any ship not in the minimum registry.
>
>IMTU, THE Pre SDG chips contained VIN, Name, Owner of Record, Home Port,
>Last Maintenance, Last registry payement date, Class, Displacement, Turrets
>(but not armament therein), Carriage limits (Td cargo, LSR, SSR, LB, ELB),
>Any non-turret weapons, and Owner Status (as of last annual maintenance, in
>Owned, Owned with Lien, Leased and Lessor, Loaned and borrower). Only VIN,
>Name, Home Port,Transponder Model No. and Displacement are sent on a normal
>squawk. An algorythm based upon these and the requesting ship's ID can get
>the rest.
>
>The SDG chips have all of the above, and may, if connected to the 'puter,
>have access to ship's log and manifests, as well as being able to deduce
>the armaments from the programs in the 'puter. It has all of the standard
>knowledge provided at install, and also keeps a list of transponders it has
>talked to and their VIN's, and an analysis of the veracity (in the chip's
>opinion) of the data-flow it has recieved. It also has a semi-volatile ram
>area for more details on the most recent contacts. It also has a
>recreational ram area, where it can put data of interest to its self, and
>an area of hard-code for a standard reference database. I figure the black
>box to be pretty much a solid IC unit... 3 dimensional circutry. With a
>socket for the SDG chip, which is secured with a tel-tale that goes off
>when any of the screws is removed. Info available is the same, plus, if the
>chip feels it is dealing with a valid and trustworthy Imp-Mil chip,
>anything else it may know.
>

How do you play out the scocial effect of this level of Big Brotherism?
This system makes private travel all but imposible.  During regular
maintainence the complete log could and probably would be downloaded to the
Impires athorities.  You are talking about the equivalent of a log of every
place a car went, when it went there, how long it stayed, and in some cases,
what it was carring and who.  This has to have effect on the
social/political part of the TU.  What about companies buying this
information on their competiter?  What about this information falling into
Zodonie or Solomanie hands?

Charles

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #892
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 893



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)
"Dogs" in traveller
Re: Re: Tech advancement
re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
re: Transponders
Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:31:44 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

At 06:06 PM 10/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
>> >> free merchants of the merchant merine to use them if they all said no?
>They
>> >
>> >There's these Big Sticks (tm) called the Imperial Navy and Imperial
>Marines.
>> >It's a velvet glove on an iron fist.  'Nuff said.
>> >
>> 
>> No not 'nuff said'.  Navy fall down go boom without logistic.  And what
>
>Yes 'nuff said.  Nanee nah nee nah nah!  
>
>> about all those PEOPLE in the Navy who don't want big brother looking over
>> their shoulder.  The Empire could never stand against the MM in a show down.
>> This is true today.  The US army is no match for the US people.  The Empire
>
>There wouldn't be a general uprising.  Most would appreciate the sentiment and
>security of a reliable transponder system.  The quacks would be worried bout
>Big Brother, maybe... I'm sure the populace of the US (much less other nations
>where firearms are far more restricted) would do quite well w/ handguns and
>rifles against the automatic weapons, main battle tanks, and air power of the
>US armed forces... yeah right.   You go right on thinking that.  
>
>A 100,000 dt Battleship is going smear the tiny merchant ships even if it's
>outnumbered 10,000 to one.  The Imperial Navy and Imperial Marines are the Big
>Stick of the Imperium.  It worked to subjugate vast regions of resistant areas
>(and their mainline armed forces) successfully.
>
>> Navy would be atmost .1% the size the the MM.  No larger Navy could be
>> supported by the economy.  See pocket empires.
>
>I'll take the Imperial Navy against the MM.  Any day of the week (well maybe
>not on Tuesday<g>).
>

You really do not understand logistics.  The US military would colapse in a
matter of weeks and in some cases days without private contracters and
civilian transport and supplies.  There are numerous studies and military
excercise bases on this information.  As for your 'handguns' vs MBTs WRONG.
US citicens have a lot more than handguns like dynamite and the production
equipment to make much more powerfull devices plus all the military hardware
in national gaurd staions the cost gaurd and the civilian contraters
warehouses that hold LAW rocket, tanks unter construction, and of course the
power generating system are in private hands.  

A MBT crew would not last long in urban combat in the US.  I'd love to see
them TRY am refuel under sniper fire or maintain supply in a hostile US.  NO
trucks, no safe loider areas.  Insergency.  For a good example of your 'big
stick' think of Vetnam on steriods.  At least with Vetnam the military had
secure traning and supply areas.  In a war between the population an the
military the military will always loose IF the people want to win because
the military is part of the population and some will turn.  What happens
when the military is ordered to attack the town where their families live?  

Who is going to supply the fuel an ammmo?  Truck it to forward bases through
hostile teritory?  If you think the military could 'grab' the material they
would need you are sadly mistaken.  It take SKILLED people to maintain
todays military.  This support is mostly civilian contracters who would
become the enemy in a pop. vs mil. war.  In a population of another country
war vs the US military you are very right but not when every mans hand is
turn against the military.  Remember the the military makes up only a
fraction of one percent of the population.  For every soldier there are
hundreds of civilians.

>> >Huh?  What are you talking about?  A mixture of Big Brother paranoia and EM
>> >spectrum?
>> 
>> No basic token ring network theory.  The data past would have to be loged to
>> maintain the intergraty of the system.  If loged it can be extracted.  If
>
>Only *registry information* is logged.  Not ship movements, etc.  ONLY
>registry information.  
>
>> To make the BBs as difficult to break as you say they are them cross
>> indexing is necessary or you in up with a data stream that is to short and
>> to easy to forge.  Those chips have to have something substansive to chatter
>> about or their chatter will be useless for the purpose of validation.  So
>> what do they talk about if not their own rather limited experience.  Their
>> ownly experience is talking with others of their kind and that is who, what,
>> when, and where data on every ship they have met.
>
>I'll paraphrase from Survival Margin pg 70.  
>
>The chips simply judge whether they *believe* the other transponder chip to be
>authentic, based the way each chip demonstrates its thought processes.  The
>way the conversation goes convinces them one way or the other.  All authentic
>chips have teh same slow mutation at the same constant rate.  They will also
>show incremental change in their thought processes over time.  The recognition
>of this change in a previously encountered chip is crucial to establishing
>that it's not been merely copied and counterfeited.  By testing these
>indicators against the parallel SDG control circuit and its own data in the
>ships main computer and its own memory chip, the chip assesses a new contact
>as authentic or flawed.
>

As long as resitry information is all that is sent then that is fine and
there would be no reason for rebellion but in many other posts the BBs
remember everything any tell all to all other BBs.  This would be beyond all
reason and tollerence any anything that resembled a free sociaty which
traveler is basicly.  I was not saying the 'licence plate' BBs were a
problem.  I was trying to explain to those who said the BBs retained all
this other data that such a system would mean the lost of freedom and thus
the end of any reasonable 'adventuring' enviroment.  (Except for a rebelion
of course.)  I'm sorry if you missunderstood me.  My responces were directed
at those that discribed the transponders as basicely perfect unforgable 'big
brother' boxes that recorded and reported nearly everything.  Those BBs
would warp the TU to the point of unrecognisablility and I like the TU just
like it is thank you very much.  Good old gorrila capitalism with a little
light larceny and chacainery added for some spice.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:31:48 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: "Dogs" in traveller

Does anybody have ideas about what 'companion' animals would be like in the
Traveller universe?  What 'Biological' inhancemant would good old shep go
through to become the pet of tomarrow?  What about felus dimesticus?  What
new 'pets' and gaurd animals would there be?  I think such animal could add
some interesting color to traveller ships passengers and adventures.  How do
the aventures deal the the 'gaurd beast' protecting the warehouse where
their confiscated cargo is stored?

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:31:51 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Tech advancement

At 01:27 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
>Hence my statement that defence (armour) had advanced to the point where 
>you could put enough on a ship to make it invulnerable to its own carried

No a valid argument.  You might as well say the sun is
invunerable/indistructable simply because it is to massive to be affected by
the weapon we can put against it.  It's a question of scale.  The guns
mounted on the iron clads were intended to defeat wooden ships not iron
clads and the inclads were so overweighted that they sank in a moderate storm!

>weapons. (Note that even ships with no armour - eg equivalent wooden warships -
>were unable to carry weapons big enough to defeat ironclads, which implies
>that it wasn't just a problem due to undergunning.)
>

That was never tested.  Neither iron clad sank of was sunk by a wooden ship.
At least that is as I recall it from high school history.  A very long time ago.

>>The forts were defeated by the same type of force that built them which is
>>what I said would happen with any technology.

>I have no idea what you mean by this statement. Forts were defeated by long
>sieges and perhaps infantry attacks - they certainly couldn't be defeated by
>mobile artillery.
>

Not mobile artillery.  Sappers!  Engineers!  The same thing that made them.
That's the point.  That which makes something can unmake it.  It was a
truism that any fort would fall in time to a prolonged seige.  Look at
maesada.  It took them awhile but it fell and it was on top of a shear sided
moutain with only one narrow foot path up.  In the end the attacked built
their own way up to take the fort.

>>Again there is no incryption scheme that has not been beaten.  That it takes
>>time I did not dispute.  PGP has been broken for some time.  It just takes a
>>while to break each new key.  Decryption technology has kept pace with
>>encryption.
>
>This statement is simply not true. 64-bit key schemes have been decrypted,
>but while encryption is linear with key size - a 1024-bit key takes about 16
>times as long to encrypt as decrypt - decryption is exponential with key
length;

Not exactly true.  It takes more proceesor time.  More parrell processors
means less time.

>a 1024-bit key takes 65,000 times as long to decrypt as a 64-bit, or 

Also not true, see the encription news groups for the technical why.  It has
the do with repetition, colation of multiple hits, and 'magic numbers'.
(Some fairly high level algebra is involved.  I still have problems with
some of the more technical aspects.  I'm am EE not a PHD in mathmatics.
Some very intersing theory there if you take the time to read up on it.  The
books are not in your everyday local library but they can sometimes be found
at coledge libraries or gotten through inter-library loan.  This can cost
though and you don't get to keep the book out as long.)

>hundreds of years. The fact that people are lazy and use 64-bit keys doesn't
>change the nature of the problem, which is that with current technology 
>large-key encryption is incredibly more efficient than the equivalent 
>decryption - and decryption gets harder much faster as you add more bits. 
>That's fundamental to the math. Faster computers won't actually help;
>if computers get 60,000 times faster then one can decrypt 1024-bit in a 
>reasonable time, but one can then also use million-bit keys relatively 
>casually. So, yes, technically PGP has been "broken", but in practice, with
>current algorithms, agressive encryption always wins.
>

Again not true.  The NSA can break any currently available software PGP
scheme in less that 30 days.  The NSA claimed this in a report serveral
months ago.  
Parrallel processing with successive aproximation between each attempt
greatly reduces the time required.  One PC might take 2 years, 2-1 year, 4-6
months, 8-3 months, 16-1.5 month 32-.75 months.  There are systems being
produced today espicially for the NSA for this purpose with over 1000
process system linked through a high speed bus.  Just using the brute force
method these systems can defeat long key PGP in hundreds of hours as opposed
to 10000+ hours.  The company making them is intending to offer them for
scientic use when they have fullfilled their current contract to supply the NSA.

There are no unbeatable systems.  To say there are is to say that perfection
exists.  Nothing is perfect.  I do not dought that something could be made
that is very difficult to defeat.  This has been done quite often but that
does not make it perfectly unbeatable just difficult.  Mankind in not
capable of perfection.

You really should stop believing all the popular press hogwash about PGP and
it's relatives and check with industry trade mags.  They deal with
encryption as a business and even they say that their own best systems are
defeatable and these are the people who wrote them!  They also provide the
statistics for the average and maximum number of interations needed to
defeat there algorithyms using yhe brute force method.  This gives a
'benchmark' as to security but is not an absolute measure as some systems
are very immune to the brute method but easier to defeat by other means.

I used interations in the above as the parrallelizm and speed of the
computers used set the time require per interation and the number of
simutanious interations that can be done on a per second basis.  None of
this takes into account various short cuts use to cut down the number of
posible keys by various methods of eliminations.

Mr. Zimmerman himself admits that PGP can and has been defeated.  What more
do you need?  Or are you simplely not going to listen to reason?  If you are
unwilling to discuss this in a reasonable manner then there is little point
in discussing this at all.  If this is a matter of 'faith' with you then
please say so, so I can stop wasteing my time.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:31:55 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

At 11:30 AM 10/4/98 +0100, you wrote:
>"jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Aye, tis a sad state of affairs.  When I started gaming back in 77' or
>>so, the first thing I ever picked up was an original copy of OGRE (the
>>one in the little plastic bag, with counters you had to cut out, and NO
>>YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!)
>
>I've got a copy too (picked it up in 83) but it's worn too death now - I'm
>using photocopied counters when I play it, and the original map disappeared
>a long time ago....
>
>>Anyway, I soon progressed to SFB, played some Dice
>>and Dice with some friends, then I found this black box with the red
>>stripe on my gaming store's shelves.  Ahh, I knew I had found what I had
>>been searching for, sort of the Holy Grail of games ya know?  Anyway,
>>even though we were as young then as the new gamers are now, we had a
>>lot more imagination.  Heck, we not only played SFB, we designed ships,
>>scenarios, and actually got to do playtesting for the company!  Those
>>were the days.  And Traveller!  Designing whole universes, great fleets,
>>we were in gamer's heaven.  Seems like these days, a lot of imagination
>>has gone by the wayside with these card games.  Now I know, not all the
>>new gamers are in this state, so don't flame me for being narrow minded,
>>but sometimes I wonder where the hobby will be in another decade or so.
>>I'll still be here (I hope!) Okay, enough mourning, gimme my FFS2, I
>>need a bigger plasma rifle!!
>
>I think what has happened is that we've all got more lazy. Look at the
>games systems which have survived the last 20 years - Traveller, Runeques,
>AD&D, Cthulhu - and the slightly younger but still healthy games -
>Shadowrun, GURPS, etc - and they all (bar AD&D) have an extensive
>background pre-written. In the older games it evolved - in the newer it has
>been created quickly.
>
>Look at the style of the old Traveller adventures to books like /Missions
>of State/. /Twilight's Peak/ (Forex) left much of the work to the Ref to
>hang the game around. It was a great 'meta-plotline' but you had to develop
>a host of smaller adventures to hang it around. But things 'progressed' and
>adventures became something with all the stats which is so much easier for
>a rushed ref to use.
>
>Also, look at the older material - most of it was rules - and compare it to
>something recent. You had to generate your own material now. The problem is
>(and it's as valid in Traveller as it is in other systems) that there's a
>reluctance to break with written material ('canon'). In some cases, I have
>seen players as fanatical about the background and rules being followed
>properly as people used to be about AD&D (/rules lawyers/). We have that in
>Traveller (and I'm as guilty as everyone else, maybe a little luckier as
>some of my material has become part of that written mass of work) as much
>as everywhere else. I find consistency easier to argue for in a hard Sci-Fi
>game than in a fantasy game, but it is the same state of affairs.
>

Big snip!

One thing anti-rules lawyer do not think about is when the GM and the player
have different understandings of a rule then it is the player and his
character that end up getting hurt.  The Charater shouls have an innate
understanding of the 'rules' of his world, he grew up there but the player
does not.  All he has to go on are the rules.  Those rules and common sence
extrapolation from those rule or real world reality is all the player has to
go on.  If you want your player to be able to 'be' their characte you as GM
must make the world they live in reasonable an internaly consistant.  I have
had characters killed by GMs that did not know the rules.  I found the rules
(for anti-tank land mines) that applied when they could not and my character
DIED by them (atomized).  That was OK my me. (It upset the GM because the
situation was not suppose to be that deadly.  The GM wanted to 'it didn't
happen' it but it fit the story so I just wrote up a new character and the
rest of the group had a 'personal' reason to GET the bad guys.  I thought it
was dramatic.  My next character on the other hand was a mercenery and did
not give a darn about revenge for someone he hand never met.  It made for
some good roleplaying.)

A game or world that is not internally consitant can't be played.  The
player have no 'reality compass' they can trust.  Like the scientific
method, something isn;t true unless it is consistantly true.  I've played
and GM a lot of games in the last 15 years.  Rules lawyers are NOT a problem
for me.  I put them to work FOR me whem I GM.

What is a problem are those that try to bend the rules for their own gain.
These are not 'rules lawyers' in my opinion.  They as nitpickers, cheats,
power gamers, or wathever you call them.  

I'm a 'rules lawyer' but I do not delay a game over useless trivial rules.
(lighten up and go with the flow people!  It's suppose to be fun.  Don't
ruin a good dramatic scene over a rule that has little if any effect on the
outcome.)  I usually do not call a mistake during a section unless it screws
a character badly (maim, cripple, kill).  Stoping a game for a 20 minute
'rules hunt' is not my idea of fun.  I do not get nearly as much ganing time
as I would like and I hate wasting it looking through rule books when I
could be playing.

I read the rules for the game I'm playing and know where to find what I need
when I need it. (Spell discritions ect.  using book marks helps)  I provide
information to the GM on rules when my character is 'off stage' by looking
them up and passing them the book for THEM to interpret or answering
questions if ASKED.  This speeds play and when my character is center stage
I have been helped in this way (and hurt) my other 'rules lawers' some of
whom are much better at behind the scenes rule reading than I am.  A GM that
is open to this type of assistance will have less trouble with 'rules
lawyers' and less work running his game but if the GM says we 'play through'
then we play through and I speak to him after the game if the error was
grevious enough.

A GM who refuses to redress a mistake on his part that cost a character
greatly is not a GM that is fun to play with.  The redress can come
naturally in the game and not require 'rewriting' history.  A distant
relative dies and the character inherite the money he lost by mistake, and
extra healing potion turns up, a cleric that just happens to know how to
reattach a limb or cure blindness, or in the case of a dead character a stat
point or some other bone in the replacement charater or let the new
character inherit the old 'wrongly dead' character's stuff though I usually
do not like this solution as it may short the rest of group booty that
should have been theirs.  This was espicially true in old AD&D.  I generally
played rangers with little personal magic.  I always had more trouble than
treasure from magic items in AD&D.  LOVED the Kensia from Oriental
Adventure.  They were not allowed to use magic in combat!  No cured items!
Same for barbarians.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:10 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Transponders

At 08:52 PM 10/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 02:01 pm 9/29/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>At 01:37 AM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote:
>>>> If you can turn it off outside Imperial territory, the switch
>exists
>>>> when you are in Impie territory. Therefore you can meet a ship
>>>> with it's transponder turned off, or be in a situation where you
>>>> suspect the existance of an undetected ship with an off
>transponder,
>>>> and legally turn your transponder off yourself while running for
>>>> safer space inside the Imperium.
>>>
>>>You (amongst others) make a quite convincing argument for the mute
>switch
>>>being on all ships. : ) I'm game.
>>>
>>>Gary
>>>
>>
>>
>>I'm afraid that I must aggree for several reasons.  If you look at
>modern
>>aviation practices 'transponders' are designed to add a ident signal
>to
>>incoming radar signals for tracking purposes.  The concept of
>'fingur
>>printing' space ships to counter piracy is asinine.  All a pirate
>has to do
>>is have a legal ship and one without any traansponder and he is
>untracable.
>
>	Except that he stands out like a sore thumb anytime he enters
>"normal" space. The mute switch is ONLY intended to be used in
>emergency or hostile situations ... Try approaching the US Airspace
>Defense Identification Zone without an active transponder or radio
>response and see what it gets you (how close do you like being to
>interceptors ... hint: an F-16 waggling his wings means "Follow me to
>the nearest base where we're going to have a long talk, or my wingman
>behind you will get to paint a silhouette on his side"). Try flying
>through any controlled airspace without a transponder. 
>
>	For that matter, try driving around town with no license plate on
>your car. Or even just one with an expired registration sticker (from
>experience ... fortunately, the current sticker was in my glovebox).
>The cops may take a while to notice (6 months, in my case), but then
>there's no automated system to automatically query every car for
>registration.
>

That is not what I meant.  The pirate robs with the heavily armed ship with
NO transponder then transfers his booty to a SECOND ship with a legal
transponder.  If the pirate ship is damaged the legal ship buys the parts
for it legally and then takes it to the pirate ship.  The legal ship never
has to be in the system where the piracy takes place.


>>Also no sane person would be a pasenger on a ship that contiuiosly
>screamed
>>'here I am' in pirate infested space or unexplored space.  Also no
>military
>
>	That's why there's a mute switch ...
>
>>would tolerate the ability to exactly track the moments of their war
>ships
>>just as the exact location of our SBNs is a closely gaurded secret.
>In
>
>	Which is why military transponders have additional settings--you can
>simply ID yourself as a valid IN ship without giving your identity
>away (hence making it difficult to do exact tracking from system to
>system). As for insystem tracking ... I'll simply defer to the sensor
>gurus.
>
>>short this level of 'big brotherism' is counter productive to the
>'prime
>>directive' of the Impire which is the free fow of trade and the
>maintanence
>>of said free trade.
>
>	And how free is the flow of trade if ships can be easily pirated, or
>skip out on loans, etc.? Having a higher level of security is
>BENEFICIAL to free flow of trade ...
>

To a curtain limit, yes.  I said that the transponders were DIFFICULT to
forge but not imposible as NOTHING that can be made can not be beaten.  Ths
cost could be prohibative.  If the reasearch need to beat the transponder
cost 1000mc and a years work by 10 Electronics-6 techs plus 10mc per fake
how could a ships captain use this to abscond with a free trader that he can
not make the payment on?  What pirate could GET 10 Electronics-6 techs?
This would be consistant with the traveller adventure.  It can be beaten but
its REAL tough and expensive.  The corp. in the adventure could field this
type of effort but even the corp rep. said its was expensive.  What is
'expensive' to a corporation with a few hundred 6000ton merchant ships plus
more of other hull types?

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:03 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: The State of the Gaming Hobby: Was: Re: Gurps Traveller

At 03:44 PM 10/4/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 10/4/98 8:44:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dom@cybergoths.u-
>net.com writes:
>
>Just about 3 weeks ago, I had my group over for our Sunday afternnon Travfest,
>but I had been feeling sick all week (my virus is now resistant to the
>protease inhibitors I was taking); I didn't want to blow off the game though.
>I just dug out my copy of Double Adventure 5, made a few mods, and scared hell
>out of my players w/ Chamax Plague (picture the Chamax being taken on by PCs
>w/ only Snub pistols and shotguns...fortunately the NPCs had slightly heavier
>weapons, and being dead they didn't mind the PCs using them!  :-)
>

I love the old CT adventure books!  So much meat in so little a package.  As
far as adventures go they had alot of bang for the buck.  3.50 when I bought
them years ago.

Have you looked at the GURPS space adventure that have been published?  They
would be easily adapted the Traveller.  Star deamon is very travelleresk.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:06 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

At 08:48 PM 10/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 04:07 pm 9/30/98 +0000, you wrote:

>"If all the personal computers in the world - ~260 million computers
>- were put to work on a single PGP-encrypted message, it would still
>take an estimated 12 million times the age of the universe, on
>average, to break a single message."
>-- William Crowell, Deputy Director of the National Security Agency,
>March 1997
>

This is blatantly not true as the NSA has publicly anounced they can break a
PGP message in under one month.

If you say 1000 fast processors (one custom machine built for this purpose.
The maker started shiping them to the NSA a few months ago.  No special
tech.  The processor cores are mass produced for the industrial control
industry.  Specs. were in one of the trade mags. I get as an EE.) at 100
interations per minute that's 1meg atempts every 10 minutes or 144meg
attempts per day or 4.32 billion per month.  1 million is about 20 bit.  1
billion is about 2000 bits.  So in one month any key less than 2000 bits
long WILL be broken.  

Even if the system can only manages 10 per cpu per minute (long message)
that's 200bit's per month for an absolute worst case senerio.  (The last
posible key is the right answer)  If you know the message was in standard
ASCII to start with you cut time by 2. (Only half the range is used for
standard text.)  With 'hit' recognition you cut this time by a facter of 4
as worse case.  Mean time would be about half that.  That a mean decode of
an 1600 bit key in ASCII in one month with only one machine working on it.
1600 bits is 200 characters.  If the public key is known that cuts the time
in half or doulble the lenght of the key that can be decoded in one month
mean.  Such a system would be program to recognise patterns to choose the
'best guess' to cut down mean time per message based on human idiocencracies
also.

>>using the same encode key.  Also the NSA has the advantage of having
>working
>>copies of the incryption software to decompile and analize for
>pattern
>>recognition.  The key would be decyphered one character at a time as
>'hits'
>
>	That's pretty meaningless--the security of PGP doesn't lie in a
>"secret" algorithm. In fact, it's considered secure BECAUSE the
>algorithms are publicly known, and have been analyzed and attacked by
>a wide variety of experts who have brought different viewpoints to
>bear.
>

Having a working copy of the software is a great advantage in code breaking.
It beats having to start form scratch to figure of the basic type of
encription used.  The militray inteligency agencies have to start form just
the encoded message and they break codes far more complex that PGP.

>>occured.  If even a single 'clear phrase' were know the time
>required would
>>drop dramaticly and any good inteligence agency would soon learn
>what key
>
>	Actually, the encryption methods used in PGP are considered to be
>fairly resistant to "known-plaintext" attacks. Furthermore, PGP
>generates a new message key for each message.
>
>>phrases to watch for in the messages of a particular group od
>comunication.
>>If a clear text copy of a message were captured then getting the key
>will be
>>almost automatic if the key is not changed.  That is why the
>military uses
>
>	Nope. You can take a plaintext and cryptotext message, and it gives
>you almost no insight into the public/private keypair. At MOST you
>might figure out the session key--which is discarded and generated
>anew for each message.
>


I'm sorry but the PGP that I have read about does NOT use session keys.  At
least it was not in the read me files or the other technical stuff that I've
read about it.  It uses a public and private key generated by the originater
(the public key's owner).  None of those keys change unless done so by the
operater.  Check out any of the PGP pages on the internet.

Session keys are used by web browsers (and other things) for secure internet
transactions.  They generate the session on the fly.  My most recent update
to my browser included a 128-bit encoder of 'secure' pages.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:17:47 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

At 02:06 am 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I think I have finally hit on a metaphor that perfectly sums up my
feelings
>re: Traveller and GURPS Trav...remember the difference between Coke
(now Coke
>Classic) and New Coke?   Coke is Coke...but obviously not to a large
majority
>of folks out there (is New Coke even available anymore?)

	Even worse, Coke Classic is NOT "Coca Cola" as it existed prior to
New Coke ... the expensive sugar in the secret recipe was replaced
with much cheaper corn syrup. Conspiracy theorists claim New Coke was
simply a smokescreen to cover up the real switcheroo ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:24:35 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

At 10:22 am 10/5/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>Just out of curiosity...what is is about MT that so violently turns
your
>>stomach?  I was dissapointed w/ it when it came out in 87;  having
finally
>
>Well, leaving out the game system (I have printing #1 ... i.e. the
bug-ridden
>one) in areas other than the Task System ...
>
>I found the whole idea of the Task system counter-intuitive. I found
it unweildy
>to describe and use. I found that it did nothing to improve on the
CTrav system.

	Interesting. I found the task system to be the greatest thing since
sliced K'Kree. A tidy, compact way of consistently determining die
rolls--MUCH better than CT's "OK, you want to do what? Hmm ... lemme
see ... I think the roll for that was in adventure 3 <flip flip flip>
No wait, that was a JTAS article <flip flip flip> ... noo ... oh
yeah! Supplement 7 <flip flip flip> ... OK, roll 8+, +1 for STR8+, +2
for STR12+, -1 for INT5-, except humans who get +1 ..."

	It provided a consistent, understandable way to quickly figure out
probabilities for ANYTHING. Sure, as referee I can just declare by
fiat "you must roll 7 or higher, and I'll give you an arbitrary +1
for your DEX."  But I don't always think that quickly on my feet
without some structure. Tasks provided that. For *anything* a player
wanted to do, all I had to do was mentally answer two easy
questions--"What word description <Simple, Routine, Difficult,
Formidable ...> most matches what he's trying to do, and which skills
would help." Boom.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:31:24 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

At 03:07 pm 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:
><<So there is NO EXCUSE
>WHATSOEVER for having a system as user unfriendly as MTrav/FF&S or
GV2.
>None.>>

	Except for the fact that there ARE people other than you who do like
them and who do purchase them and who do use them ... but then
putting out something customers want isn't always the free market
way, is it?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:43:32 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

> >Thereby forcing you to spend more money to play the game...remember when the
> >LBBs had it all to get started in one shot?
> 
> The combination of Basic and GURPS Traveller has a _lot_ more
> material than exists in the LLB's.  While you have focused
> on _one_ aspect (world generation system), the fact is that
> one can always make up worlds non-systematically while the
> Little black books (unless you want to include more than the
> first few books, ie _all_ the CT material published) required
> you to come up with your own background.

Two.  No star system or planetary generation; that's GURPS: Space.  Three: no 
vehicle generation system; that's GURPS: Vehicles.

> The fact is that you _can_ get started on one shot.  I ran a
> GURPS Traveller campaign one what I wrote myself (before GT
> came out) that had much less material.

How much of it did you write yourself, how much did you convert from 
Traveller, and which *essential* supplements did you have on hand while you 
were doing the conversion?

> Now, there has been some expression of dislike by those who honestly
> don't care for the GURPS system and have similar objections.
> What has disappointed me has been attempts by others to use
> the trade offs that space limitation force, by  necessity, to
> pick at things that couldn't be included in the first book and
> try and blow them up as major  things.  There seems to be a small
> faction out there that seems to just wants it to fail and looks for
> bad things to say about it.

My point has always been, the LBB's were stand alone.  Somebody could buy a 
set off the shelf in '77 and hack up a game.  A brand new cherry GM, starting 
today with GURPS, has to buy up a *pile* of supplements to get started if they 
*DON'T* have any other Traveller material around.  That to me is the *gist* of 
the problem.  Not 'this system sucks cause it's brand x and not brand y.'  For 
somebody to decide 'Dammit, I wanna run a role playing game' today, with no 
backround, he's gonna have to spend some serious money.  Period.  That is the 
fact, and it cannot be denied.

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #893
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 894



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Psionics - Who has the potential?
Re: GURPS Trav CGen
Re: Tech advancement
Re: Transponder's true nature
re: Transponders
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill
Re: MT Task System
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Tech advancement
re: Transponders
Re: Role Playing (was Re GURPS Players)
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: "Companions of the Road" by M.W. Miller
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:58:12 -7
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Psionics - Who has the potential?

On 5 Oct 98, at 7:54, Brannon Boren wrote:

> I have been considering how psionics are portrayed in Traveller. From the
> presence of the Psionics Institute, it is obvious that Imperials are
> capable of having psionic powers. However, it seems to be implied many
> places that the Zhodani are somehow physiologically different in this area
> - i.e. more psionically adept.

I don't recall any reference to a "physiological" difference.  
Psychological, and sociological, absolutely.  Certainly, no flavor of 
Trav has ever proposed a set of alternate rules for psionic strength 
generation, so I'd say if there are "references" to it, they aren't 
backed by rules.

> But from the rules, it seems that you could take any young Imperial with a
> decent PSI stat and train them to be a capable psionic if you caught them
> before they started losing PSI to aging effects (and there is no negative
> to the PSI roll for being an Impie, so you'd figure that Zho and Imp
> individuals would have the same potential spread in the population).

True.  So long as you hid their powers from view, and they could 
find an institute capable of teaching at the same level as the 
Zhodani, and they weren't revulsed at the thought of learning 
something as distasteful as psionics.

I'd say that the potential spread would be the same.  This is where 
the similarity ends.  In the Consulate **ALL** individuals are tested. 
 It's doubtful except on the most pro-psionic of worlds in the pre-
Suppressions Imperium that even the majority of individuals are 
tested.  

> Also, is there any difference in the PSI potentials of Vilani and
> Solomani (or other races for that matter).

Well, we batted this one around when designing Psionics 
Institutes.  Here's my take on it...

Since all human stock descended from one ancestor race, all 
flavors of humaniti, major and minor have the same range of 
potential.  Of course, the odds of finding an institution of the same 
quality in the Solomani Rim post-Psi Suppressions is going to be a 
big chore relative to finding one on Zhodane.

Varying alien races may have less, or potentially more, or none.  
Remember though, that an alien race that has better potential had 
best have some counterbalancing flaw for game balance though.

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Frustrated Novelist, Published Game Designer
- --------------------------------------------------
"I really haven't said half the things I've said."
- -Yogi Berra

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:14:55 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: GURPS Trav CGen

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:56:17 -0400, you wrote:

>From: Scott Taylor <izzylobo@faerealm.faerealm.com>
>Subject: Re: Re GURPS Trav CGen
>
>>
>>Dom queries:
>>>How many points would you recommend that a character starts with,
>>>assuming that they have spent about 12 years in a  profession before
>>>retiring.
>>>
>>>Would a 200 point starting amount seem too much from which to purchase
>>>a template and some other skills.
>>
>>GT specifies 100 point characters... the GURPS standard.
>
>I would say that it depends entirely on what your campaign is about, and
>what kind of influence/powers you want the players to have access to.

Of course, you *could* run a GURPS:Traveller-Black Ops crossover!

All those 650 point characters would be, er, *interesting* in Traveller!

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:15:45 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

At 02:34 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>>Subject: Re: Tech advancement
>...
>>>>Yes there is.  The system that makes the defence can always breal the
>>>>defence.  Defence has always laged behind for this reason.  Can you name a
>>>>time in history the defense was supperior enough to make a man invuneable
>>>>against that times weapons?
>>>
>>>Civil War ironclads were nearly invulnerable to each other's cannon.
>>>Early-to-mid 19th century (and 18th century) forts were essentially
>>>invulnerable to any weapons ships could carry and had to be reduced by long
>>>land-based sieges. 
>>
>>The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
>>The harbor defense guns of that time could sink on easily.  They were 10 or
>>more times larger than the ship mounted guns of that time.  The ironclads of
>>that time were a failure but they were 'proof of concepts'.
>
>  The above would be a highly questionable summation, to say the least. Early
>ironclads were not failures (at least not in the `50's-`60's) and went a long
>way towards making non-armourclad battleships obsolete in short order. IIRC,
>there were numbers of duels during the war between Union warships and fortress
>batteries of the South, and the conventional surface warships neutralized by
>the Virginia were not themselves undergunned. Indeed, if the Merrimack was
>undergunned then no warship of the period could have been adequately armed,
>which was Mr. Johnson's point, I believe.
>

My information on the Monitor and Merrimack was that they were undergunned
compared to similar ships of the period of the same tonage.  As I recall
from long ago one of them only mounted guns in its' one turret.  As for the
later ship you mentioned you are getting into an era I have little knowledge
of.  WWI sea craftare not an area I have studied.  It was my understanding
though that there was no ship in WWI that could survive a torpedo attack
unbreached.  That would prove my point as far as that goes.  It has been my
only contention that any thing made be man can be beaten by man.  That is my
theory and as yet it has not been disproved.  I had no intention of geting
into an argument over historical weapons systems that I have only distant
memories about from high school.  My statement is that in their time there
were weapon that could defeat them even if it took raming by a similar ships
to do so.  It's alway easier to distroy that create.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:15:48 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

At 02:58 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>>Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature  (long responce)
>...
>>Unacceptable.  If you do not know how they work in general you can not let
>>the interact with your players.  You can not know what will and will not
>>work when they try it.  What level of forgery and electronics does it take
>>to forge the BB?  What is the difficulty rating?  What is the task time?
>
>  These tasks are listed (unofficially at least, and officially too, IIRC).
>
>>These MUST be known and do not say 'it can not be done'.  Everything can be
>>done that does not inherently break the laws of the universe and even those
>>thing can be done by work arround or if need be leaving the universe as in
>>'jump drive'.  Sayinf to your player 'you can't do that' is wrong.  Saying
>>that the attemp failed is ok but you must know how it could be done or you
>>are not playing fair with your player and are cheating them.  It is the job
>>and the duty of the GM to make the rule consistant and play by them.
>
>  The possibility exists that it is only possible at TL 15-16 with the use
>of the original Cymbeline chip stock; the IN's behaviour in Signal GK is
>consistent with this theory, and _someone_ nuked Cymbeline during the 
>Rebellion, likely for this same reason.
>
>  If this does comprise a needed component to compromise the canonical
>SDG's at normal Trav techs, then attempts to do so are otherwise going
>to fail.
>
>

With teleportaion and matter creation technology you could make all the
copies you wanted.  Use teleporter to scan it and matter creater to
reproduce it.  If the chips evolved to begin with they could be
cloned/remanufactured or whatever you want to call it.  The fact is SOMEBODY
develope that transponder and that person could reproduce it and someone
else as bright could rediscover the process.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:15:51 +0000
From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Transponders

At 01:41 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote:

> 3) Pretty much by definition the civilian data needed to plan strategic
warfare
>will be easily available to enemies of the Imperium; it is something of a
byword
>of current economic philosophy that the ideal for an efficient free market
>system  <giggle> is an environment of free and accurate information flow.
>The Imperium
>will in any event make its' military data far harder to confirm than to merely
>estimate accurately (although the latter may work better in the OTU than it has
>tended to do in the last century).
>
>        

It;s not the civilian data I was worried about there.  The recorders record
ALL ships met including military.  That data could be very usefull to the enemy.

Charles.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:29:42 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
...
>somebody to decide 'Dammit, I wanna run a role playing game' today, with no 
>backround, he's gonna have to spend some serious money.  Period.  That is the 
>fact, and it cannot be denied.

  People ran RPG's off of SJG's "Man to Man", from which GURPS:Lite is a 
_huge_ advance. Im all seriousness, when I run I'll probably leave the
guns & ammo supplements at home (UT 1/2, Vehicles - _if_ I use it) and use
GURPS Basic, G:T, and my LBB's :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:41:52 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jack-of-All-Trades skill

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

>[snip]
>
>>Was I close? How did others run this skill?
>
>I use JoT as an "extender". I use the T4 task system, but I added the
idea of
>"prerequisite" skill levels for certain tasts ("I don't care how good
your dex
>is,
>you can't do open heart surgery with Medical-1, its got a prerequisite
of at
>least
>Medical-3"). However you can add your JoT level to your skill to get
around
>these prerequisites (eg if the character has Medical-1 and JoT-2, they
can
>attempt open heart surgery), however the JoT doesn't improve your
chances (ie
>you are still using just Medical-1 to resolve the task). I've found
that this
>makes
>it a very useful skill and seems to represent the "give it a go" feel
of JoT.

I like this and will add it to my discription of JoT.  I have used JoT
in a mechanical situation where the repairs are short lasting ("well
this should get us back to port") duct tape and bailing wire fashon.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:37:53 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: MT Task System

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:33:51 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:05:46 -0800
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
>Subject: Re: MT Task System
>
>Phil Rants (his term, not mine):
>>I found the whole idea of the Task system counter-intuitive. I found it
>>unweildy
>>to describe and use. I found that it did nothing to improve on the CTrav
>>system.
>>I'd never liked it in the Digest Group magazines, and couldn't see why they
>>needed to add it to a Traveller game system that worked perfectly well.
>
>DGP of that era was producing a wonderfully useful mag, and their task
>system worked for me. Funny thing tho... I find the Starplay task system
>vaguely reminisant of MT's task system....

Yes, DGP stuff *was* (at least generally) great ... when you could get it here
in Oz (the dsitribution channel was mildly broken and got worse as the years
progressed) ... but their Task System turned me off. What can I say? It was
probably a personal thing.

As for Starplay, well I hope it is *very* vaguely reminiscent of MTrav!!!!!

>>Something *like* MTrav was needed ... I mean, a new, improved, expanded rule
>>system. However, I have always been of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
>>school of game design ... CTrav worked, from task resolution through to ship
>>design ... MTrav didn't.
>
>For you, maybe. But it did provide a wondeful framework, fromm which it
>freed me of having to, as a ref, asign arbitrary task numbers and levels of
>attribute for DM's. Admittedly, I tweaked it: +1 to target numbers and used

I tended to keep a record of DMs that had been handed out and the situations so
that I could be consistent. Mostly, of course, role playing was as important as
roll playing so it didn't matter too much ... of course, I was always open to
discussion of the matter with the players (if they shouted loudly enough ;-)

>Att/3, to match up with HITS determination, and max DM +10. But it was (and
>still is, IMO) the easiest of the task systems for trave to tweak for feel.
>And, players always used 5 dice: 2 for success, and 3 for time--- I have
>players use two colors of dice, and roll them once. WOrks well for me and

But, at its basis, the Task system was as arbitrary as CTrav for Tasks that
hadn't been pre-determined. So, if you weren't playing a canned adventure, and
weren't doing one of the standard tasks described in the book, you were being as
arbitrary as you were with CTRav. And CTrav generally required fewer rolls to
boot. And it was, for me anyway, more intuitive.

>my playerrs. CT was inconsistant in methods. TNE was using multiplication
>by fractions in play, or listing 5 assets in play... a real problem when
>certain things (like certain pieces of equipment) add to base asset BEFORE
>difficulty mods. T4 simply confused my player group at first, then made
>them all realize they were GODLIKE in ability, in play at least, getting
>far to many critical successes. Also, I like roll high systems, because
>More is Better works for me.

Admittedly, this is all personal preference. But, really, when you boil it down,
that's what this list is built on ... the TNE'ers personal preference is that
TNE (despite what non TNE'ers see as its flaws) is the best thing since sliced
bread; ditto the CTravers, MTravers, T4ers and now GTravers.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:28:34 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

At 02:51 AM 10/5/98 -0500, Dusty wrote:
...
><<   While just G:T and GURPS: Lite is probably too lean, it would still
offer
> at least as much as Books 0-5 and the first few supplements. >>
>
>But if I recall right, G:T also needs ("recommends") the Character
Compendium,
>GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech 1&2, and Vehicles also.  I am a little old-fashioned;
>when I buy a game, I hope it has everything in it to play the game.  I can
get
>by w/ just GURPS Basic and G: T...but only because I have 14+ years of other
>info to fall back on:  a player completely new to Trav would not have this
>benefit.

It seems to me that SJG is darned either way.  If they reproduce material
from one book to another, their existing customer base should be upset
because, to get the (for example) Traveller info, they're being forced to
buy again the info already in Space (which they own).  If they don't, the
new customers should be upset for just the reasons Dusty states.  Pick yer
poison!

Points about percieved incompleteness are well taken, but how does it
distinguish GURPS:Traveller from any of the other flavors of Traveller?  IG
put out - how many - 22? - books in a year and a half or so...  GDW's three
incarnations produced a stupendous number of supplements, too.  Remember
that G:Traveller, IIRC, isn't a game or set of rules per se - it's a
backround/campaign supplement to a set of rules (GURPS)...  



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:52:20 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

> >From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
> >Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
> ...
> >somebody to decide 'Dammit, I wanna run a role playing game' today, with no 
> >backround, he's gonna have to spend some serious money.  Period.  That is the 
> >fact, and it cannot be denied.
> 
>   People ran RPG's off of SJG's "Man to Man", from which GURPS:Lite is a 
> _huge_ advance. Im all seriousness, when I run I'll probably leave the
> guns & ammo supplements at home (UT 1/2, Vehicles - _if_ I use it) and use
> GURPS Basic, G:T, and my LBB's :)

What if you *DIDN'T* have your LBBs?  That's the question.  If you have *NO* 
LBB's or other Traveller materials to work with, you're screwed if you think 
you can run anything on GURPS Basic & G:T.

Keven
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:42:44 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

At 03:34 AM 10/5/98 -0500, Keven wrote:
...
>The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at
*LEAST* 
>2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.  You need the core rules for 
>*everything*, G:T is just a background supplement, from what I've heard.
And 
>to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the 
>G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.  You're looking
at 
>no less than 40 bucks minimum, maybe as much as 2-300 all tricked out.
G:T is 
>*NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.
>

Fair point.  Would the LBBs, then, be bad, had they been available
separately?  

I just pulled my LBBs out and took a good look at them.  The box of three
was a game system, and very little more.  There's no background beyond that
necessary to generate characters and set some basic game parameters.  The
TAS is simply mentioned as a private organization.  That's fine - after
all, this is what came first; all the wealth of background and history
(other than Imperium, IIRC) followed, not preceded these rules!

It feels like mixing apples and oranges to compare the LBBs with
GURPS:Traveller in this way.  One might better compare the LBBs to GURPS
Basic, Space, etc., than to GURPS:Traveller...  



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:09:07 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Re: Tech advancement
...
>the weapon we can put against it.  It's a question of scale.  The guns
>mounted on the iron clads were intended to defeat wooden ships not iron
>clads and the inclads were so overweighted that they sank in a moderate storm!

  The USS Monitor was a particularly bad design in that respect. Only a few
years later at the battle of Lissa two fleets largely comprised of armourclads
went at it - and they were all seaworthy designs.

...
>That was never tested.  Neither iron clad sank of was sunk by a wooden ship.
>At least that is as I recall it from high school history.  A very long time
ago.

  At Lissa, the groups of unarmoured ships of both the Austro-Hungarian and 
Italian fleets avoided inappropriate exposure to fire (which they weren't
equipped to survive) even though in some cases they were the better armed
ships. One Italian armourclad was eventually destroyed by a fire started
by sstrikes from an unarmoured Imperial frigate (which were deployed more
aggressively than their Italian counterparts).

  OTOH, the generally acknowledged supremacy of armour over guns of this
period did pass before long.

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:09:11 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Transponders

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: re: Transponders
...
>That is not what I meant.  The pirate robs with the heavily armed ship with
>NO transponder then transfers his booty to a SECOND ship with a legal
>transponder.  If the pirate ship is damaged the legal ship buys the parts
>for it legally and then takes it to the pirate ship.  The legal ship never
>has to be in the system where the piracy takes place.

  What happens if the practice drone (err, pirate) with NO transponder meets
a patrol? (hint: target practice off the port bow, sir!). The desired effect
can be much more easily achieved using a ship's boat or armed pinnace,
especially
as non-starships (or at least small craft) may very well not be required to
use SDG transponders.

  In any case, where is the legal ship, what is it doing, who is paying for
its' operations, and why the heck don't the anomalies indicated by these
questions get it flagged for some serious investigation? 

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:03:27 -0400
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Role Playing (was Re GURPS Players)

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> writes:
>One of the things that I like about GURPS is the Advantages &
>Disadvantages.  I think that they are an excellent hook for role
>playing.  Good role players will give their charecters personalities
>whether or not they get points for doing so.  Many role players need a
>bit of encouragement to give their charecters personality.  
[snip]
>  Yes you can play
>a charecter with "disadvantages" even if the system does not have
>disadvantages but I know of precious few GM"S who let players give their
>charecters advantages.  To use a trivial real world example I do not get
>hangovers but if I tried to say that a charecter I was playing did not
>get hangovers most GM's would not allow it.  In GURPS I would just buy
>the charecter the advantage No Hangover (5 points).

Hm, I see a way out of the problem of dyslexic one-handed 14-year-old
streetkids with loads of skills.

Allow the base points for a character to be used in the normal way (skills
and attributes). Then allow 'customization' as matching
advantages/disadvantages. Thus, you could chose "No Hangover" (5 points)
but would have to take a 5-point disadvantage to compensate. Disadvantage
points can't buy skills, just compensatory innate abilities.

Thus, if my character is Blind, I might well develop Acute Hearing and
Acute Smell, but wouldn't get Nuclear Engineering. (Making these up, as my
GURPS book is packed away in the "don't need it" book box.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:16:46 -0500
From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

>At 03:07 pm 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:
>><<So there is NO EXCUSE
>>WHATSOEVER for having a system as user unfriendly as MTrav/FF&S or
>GV2.
>>None.>>
>
>        Except for the fact that there ARE people other than you who do
like
>them and who do purchase them and who do use them ... but then
>putting out something customers want isn't always the free market
>way, is it?

I agree with Dave on this.  If it wasn't for this "user unfriendly"
material I would have dropped Traveller long ago.  My first book was
High Guard, and it did NOT go into enough detail for me.  I disliked
Book 2 from the start.  and from the discussions on trav-tech there is a
need for a comprehensive vehicle design.  Although we should do our best
to make a fast/simple version for the basic rules.

Charles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:19:00 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

> Points about percieved incompleteness are well taken, but how does it
> distinguish GURPS:Traveller from any of the other flavors of Traveller?  IG
> put out - how many - 22? - books in a year and a half or so...  GDW's three
> incarnations produced a stupendous number of supplements, too.  Remember
> that G:Traveller, IIRC, isn't a game or set of rules per se - it's a
> backround/campaign supplement to a set of rules (GURPS)...  

Simple.  Every previous incarnation of Traveller included starship & star 
system generation rules as well as all the rules you need to have a standalone 
game.  GURPS doesn't do this.

The supplements to CT and MT (having practically *zero* experience with TNE 
and *absolutely* none with T4) were nice to have, but were not *necessary* for 
play as the basic set was standalone.  G:T is *NOT* standalone.  What is so 
difficult to understand here?

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:39:17 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

> At 03:34 AM 10/5/98 -0500, Keven wrote:
> ...
> >The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at *LEAST* 
> >2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.  You need the core rules for 
> >*everything*, G:T is just a background supplement, from what I've heard.
> And 
> >to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the 
> >G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.  You're looking
> at 
> >no less than 40 bucks minimum, maybe as much as 2-300 all tricked out.
> G:T is 
> >*NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.
> >
> 
> Fair point.  Would the LBBs, then, be bad, had they been available
> separately?  

They weren't.  It was designed to be rules-heavy, where G:T isn't.

> I just pulled my LBBs out and took a good look at them.  The box of three
> was a game system, and very little more.  There's no background beyond that
> necessary to generate characters and set some basic game parameters.  The
> TAS is simply mentioned as a private organization.  That's fine - after
> all, this is what came first; all the wealth of background and history
> (other than Imperium, IIRC) followed, not preceded these rules!

But the LBB's *created* the market for the supplements.  You didn't *need* 
them, but they *did* save a lot of time for busy GM's.  They were *nice* to 
have, but not really needed.  I run a PBEM set in 1126's Reavers' Deep.  I 
don't need Spinward Marches or Solomani Rim except as deep background, if 
that.  I don't need either Library Data LBB's, but I have them anyways (I 
bought them when they were cheep).  I bought the original Striker cause I'm an 
ex-wargammer by background.  I've *yet* to use it for Traveller.  I've bought 
ovr a couple dozen different JTAS'es, Challanges, et all, not because I 
*needed* them, but because I *wanted* them to mine for ideas.
 
> It feels like mixing apples and oranges to compare the LBBs with
> GURPS:Traveller in this way.  One might better compare the LBBs to GURPS
> Basic, Space, etc., than to GURPS:Traveller...  

Not a bad analogy.  But in this case, this is the *first* Traveller incarnation that's been released that's *not* standalone.  It's a *supplement*.

Funny, I mentioned this a couple times when G:T was announced & got shot down for being negative...

Keven

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:50:37 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:43:37 EDT
>From: DustyLV769@aol.com

>But if I recall right, G:T also needs ("recommends") the Character Compendium,
>GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech 1&2, and Vehicles also.

Well, I don't have my book yet, but if we assume you are right.
Of course SJG is going to suggest all these other neat books
you can get.  They are interest in selling books!   <gasp!>
However, you definately don't need those books.

>I am a little old-fashioned;
>when I buy a game, I hope it has everything in it to play the game.  I can get
>by w/ just GURPS Basic and G: T...but only because I have 14+ years of other
>info to fall back on:  a player completely new to Trav would not have this
>benefit.

Not true at all.

It actually gets humorous when you are a GURPS player, everyone
who doesn't play the game telling you that you can't play like
you've been doing for years.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:52:19 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Companions of the Road" by M.W. Miller

In a message dated 10/5/98 6:36:39 PM Central Daylight Time, Diespamer@aol.com
writes:

<< 
 Anybody hear anything from this one since last year?
  >>
It never went anywhere, althoughitis still on the back burner.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:56:37 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:06:03 -0400, "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>

>The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at *LEAST*
>2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.

Actually, GURPS Lite would probably get you as far as the
sketchy rules in the LBB's.  In any case, Basic and GT has
a lot more detail than the LLB's and actually background
info.

>from what I've heard.  And
>to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the
>G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.

No.  You only need vehicles if you want to make no-space ship
vehicles.  You can get by fine without Space.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #894
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest       Monday, October 5 1998       Volume 1998 : Number 895



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
other RPG mailing lists
re: Transponders
Re: Transonders and computers
Re: MT Task System
Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: GT
Re: Re GT
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
T5
Re Transponders
Re: Tech advancement  - an aside
Re: Re T5 Wants
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Not Quite Long)
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re Task Systems
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
T5 Wish List
A thought on Game Design
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Not Quite Long)
Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:02:06 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:31:58 +1300, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>

>Nope, no world gen (book 3). As it stands I 'd say you need at least three
>books to run G:T "properly": GURPS basic, G:T and Space or BTC  (total cost
>$67.85).

What you are doing is taking anything that the LLBs had that
GT doesn't have and assuming it to be required and taking
anything that GT has that the LLBs didn't have an ignoring it.
Yes, GT doesn't have world generation.  Does it have less than
the LLB's?  No!  It has more.  It has background
info, a sample race, etc.  If I was going to run a new adventure
I would have an easier time with GT and Basic (or even GURPS
Lite) than I would with the LLBs.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:03:46 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: other RPG mailing lists

>>I wonder if the folks over on the  D&D list get into this sort of thing?  ;-)
>  Yes. Just now they're going through their biannual "Are Evil Dragons
>Unredeemable?" essay contest.

  Sounds just almost as bad as the "Who is stronger: Gerard or the Hulk?"
debates on the Amber DRPG mailing list.


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:54:47 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re: Transponders

At 11:32 pm 10/5/98 +0000, you wrote:
>That is not what I meant.  The pirate robs with the heavily armed
ship with
>NO transponder then transfers his booty to a SECOND ship with a
legal
>transponder.  If the pirate ship is damaged the legal ship buys the
parts
>for it legally and then takes it to the pirate ship.  The legal ship
never
>has to be in the system where the piracy takes place.

	That works ... but the no transponder ship STILL stands out like a
sore thumb any time he enters any system with traffic control.

>To a curtain limit, yes.  I said that the transponders were
DIFFICULT to
>forge but not imposible as NOTHING that can be made can not be
beaten.  Ths
>cost could be prohibative.  If the reasearch need to beat the
transponder
>cost 1000mc and a years work by 10 Electronics-6 techs plus 10mc per
fake
>how could a ships captain use this to abscond with a free trader
that he can
>not make the payment on?  What pirate could GET 10 Electronics-6
techs?
>This would be consistant with the traveller adventure.  It can be
beaten but
>its REAL tough and expensive.  The corp. in the adventure could
field this
>type of effort but even the corp rep. said its was expensive.  What
is
>'expensive' to a corporation with a few hundred 6000ton merchant
ships plus
>more of other hull types?

	Then it sounds like we're really in agreement, no?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:00:24 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Transonders and computers

At 11:32 pm 10/5/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>	Nope. You can take a plaintext and cryptotext message, and it
gives
>>you almost no insight into the public/private keypair. At MOST you
>>might figure out the session key--which is discarded and generated
>>anew for each message.
>
>I'm sorry but the PGP that I have read about does NOT use session
keys.  At
>least it was not in the read me files or the other technical stuff
that I've
>read about it.  It uses a public and private key generated by the
originater
>(the public key's owner).  None of those keys change unless done so
by the
>operater.  Check out any of the PGP pages on the internet.

	I can't give you a reference off the top of my head but PGP *does*
use session keys. The public key crypto is extremely slow, so
encrypting the entire message would take forever. I believe the docs
I saw (PGP 2.6 docs, IIRC) also said IDEA was actually considered
more secure than RSA--just had the usual disadvantages of secret key
crupto. PGP generates a secret session key (2.6.3 and previous used
IDEA encryption, newer versions allow CAST, TripleDES or IDEA). The
session key is then encrypted using public key crypto, while the
message itself is encrypted with the session key. At the other end
the recipient decrypts the session key, then grabs the message. Two
advantages: the process is much faster, and the amount of data
encrypted with RSA (and hence vulnerable to cryptanalysis) is *very*
small.

	If you really want a reference, I can dig it up for you.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:03:13 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: MT Task System

>>Att/3, to match up with HITS determination, and max DM +10. But it
was (and
>>still is, IMO) the easiest of the task systems for trave to tweak
for feel.
>>And, players always used 5 dice: 2 for success, and 3 for time--- I
have
>>players use two colors of dice, and roll them once. WOrks well for
me and
>
>But, at its basis, the Task system was as arbitrary as CTrav for
Tasks that
>hadn't been pre-determined. So, if you weren't playing a canned
adventure, and
>weren't doing one of the standard tasks described in the book, you
were being as
>arbitrary as you were with CTRav. And CTrav generally required fewer
rolls to
>boot. And it was, for me anyway, more intuitive.

	Not AS arbitrary--you did have the guidelines. All you had to do was
decide "Does this feel Simple, Routine, Difficult ..."--just by
whatever meaning you attached to the words, even--and everything fell
into place. And you would tend to be more consistent, because on
average, confronted with the same situation a month apart, you'd
probably have about the same gut feel, and hence wind up with the
same roll.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

   I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too
   much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
      -- Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:58:39 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Using G: Trav (a survey)

Nor me
but good luck to those who want to 
Colin
At 06:17 5/10/98 PDT, you wrote:
>> Is there anyone out there who is running a current Trav campaign 
>(under any
>> system) who is going to convert to playing Trav w/ the GURPS system 
>(i.e,
>> actually use GURPS) as opposed to using background from it?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:05:04 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

snip
>Especially vector movement like Mayday and BR. I never did understand
>why BL had to have such an incredibly complex movement system that was
>not quite vector.
>Also how about this time having the design and combat systems work
>together? A silly request, I know.
>
snip
 In what way does the movement system in BR differ from BL?  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:22:43 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GT

aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor) writes:
>Personally, FWIW, I find having game designated character traits a pain.
>And
>unrealistic. In my games, yes, you *can* have one arm or be missing an
>eye, but
>it gains you *NO* extra skills.

>Does anyone other than me see it as being unrealistic that the most
>powerful
>characters in a GURPS/CORPS game are those that are the most hamstrung by
>character or physical flaws?

I do.  However, that is _not_ the premise behind point based
systems any more than picking a skill increase instead of a stat
increase for your term in Traveller character generation is based
on the premise that having a character who isn't as strong
make you learn faster.

YOu are given so much raw ability to work with.  One person
uses it to make a character stronger, another to make him
a better pilot, another to give him better vision.  That
is done to some degree or the other in every game system
I've ever seen.

Now some people play it that you don't get points for disads.
If that floats your boat, then fine.  But it isn't "better",
it's just different.

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:31:37 -0400
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Re GT

>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:

><< to wich I couldn't help but interject the following:
> I agree that Traveller has always been both mythos and Rules, and rules
> being the lesser element. However, like dusty, GT, while excellent is "Trav
> through the GRUPS lens". Here's why: >>
>
>All true, BUT I still think it behooves all Trav players to buy the D--n
>thing, so Steve doesn't decide to cancel the series because the interest
isn't
>there. 

   I'm a little unclear why.  I for one do not have unlimited resources and
I'm sure most of the people on this list don't either.  I own a couple of
GURPS products (the basic rule book and GURPS: Mecha).  I bought them
because they were *useful* to me.  I simply cannot afford to buy items,
regardless of "appeals to Traveller patriotism" I won't/can't use.  

   It would be far more preferable to appeal to people to at least look at
G:T and give it an honest appraisal.  Evaluate it like you would evaluate
any other Traveller product.  If it looks useful to you, buy it. 

>As for it being intro to traveller for GURPS's players; isn't that a
>GOOD thing? I would think that it would be easier to convince a GURPS player
>who is familiar with the Traveller universe to try another game mechanics
>system, than to try and entice someone who cut their teeth on fantasy, or
>(shudder...) CCG's.

   You are unlikely to convert a GURPS player to any version of Traveller
game mechanics, particularly if they are already up to their eyeballs in
GURPS sourcebooks.  If you are lucky you will get some GURPS players to buy
CTMTTNET4 *in addition to* their GURPS stuff.  If you are really lucky, the
Zhodani, Hivers, et al. will become part of the GURPS lexicon in addition
to Illuminati, etc.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:34:23 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

>I like the idea of being able to design my own units...but it has to be able
>to be used in a RPG setting.  If it takes 4-6 hours, thats too long unless
you
>have no life!  :-)   Starship design for T4 could have been salvaged by
having
>a pre-made set of starship weapons to purchase (a la HG and MT).  For me,
that
>has always been the blocking point, designing the weapons to design the ship.
>I cant think of anything else that had to be designed before building the
>ship,, but I am sure someone will let me know if there is! :-)
>
What about QSDS and SSDS?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:41:52 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: T5

I look forward to seeing the T5 material, and though I will continue to use
the TNE rules + BR, BL (my pick of all the traveller rules   ahh the d20
system), the idea of new source material is a great encouragement.  I hope
that Marc will consider seriously some sort of conversion system for moving
between different versions of traveller, if, or even if, he is   planning
on continuing with FF&S2.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:47:41 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Transponders

Charles Poses the following query:

>How do you play out the scocial effect of this level of Big Brotherism?
>This system makes private travel all but imposible.  During regular
>maintainence the complete log could and probably would be downloaded to the
>Impires athorities.  You are talking about the equivalent of a log of every
>place a car went, when it went there, how long it stayed, and in some cases,
>what it was carring and who.  This has to have effect on the
>social/political part of the TU.  What about companies buying this
>information on their competiter?  What about this information falling into
>Zodonie or Solomanie hands?
>

1st: IMTU, transponder logs are only legally downloadable by Imperial
Authorities (IN, IISS, IMOJ). Valid updates can be done by a liscenced
technician, who has a special chip which "Verifies" him via voice and
eyeprint, and brief interrogation, and verifies the information changes for
the transponder. It doesn't do more than give him the old data for his
verification of validity of the changes.

2nd: Big Brother is my entire approach to the late 3i: A very nearsighted,
nearly deaf Big Brother, who, once he notices you, can swat you like a bug.
Much is made of not attracting "Imperial Attention".... IMTU, the imperial
gov't tends not only to wait til the last minute to intervene, but to then
intervene with massive overkill. ForEx: a local balkanized world starts
using genocide very quietly, and the local ImpGov is kept in the dark. When
he finds out, the ImpMar invasion in force is the follow up to saturation
meson bombardment of all visible military targets in that local gov't,
followed by years of martial law, social engineering, and careful building
of dependancy upon imperial authority. Marine-run Martial law is harsh, but
the trains run on time and the streets are clean, and free private speech
is tolerated in small groups... Marine Martial law generally runs about
LL9-10... even if the listed LL is different.

As for getting the info: you must fool a sapient being, while using a
non-human language, requireing acess to databases and metahuman
mathematics, and then be able to know the verifications for the sequences
requested. In general, they data is only available to the ImpGov WHEN THEY
SIEZE your ship... altho a txpdr might rat you out. Yes, it is a spy. Yes,
it will tattle.

<mt task>
To fool a transponder into giving you milspec data:
	Formidable, Computer, Pursuasion, Fateful. On a mishap, it will
scream constantly until a liscenced tech tells it to shut up, and give all
the data it can on the perp.
</mt task>

It is more likely for the Zhodani or Solomani to get the info than an
imperial corporation. IMTU, the IISS-IntelOff and the ImpNavSecur agegency
handle transponder data. Transponder programmers are all on the "Never
Retire" list... they may go to a retirement center, where they are treated
as little better than foreign spies, or may be voluntarily brain-wiped, but
they do not ever get out of the service alive with their knowedge intact.
Standiong orders are Prevent their capture; if captured, exterminate them
before they can spill the beans.

IMTU, the imperium IS ruthless. No gentle trade association, it fosters
free trade so as to foster a stable tax base from which to perpetuate its
self. It protects Sapient rights only so that sapients will be ablke to
work and pay taxes, and maintain order. Truth be told, the imperium
couldn't care less about Jack being killed by Jill, save that it defines
Murder as a crime so that members will join. All the benefits are merely
there to get members to stay members, so that the Imperium gets its taxes.

Still IMTU, the Imperium actually likes small local warfare, as war does
stimulate economies. In certain areas, the ImpNav will infiltrate and START
a local wwar to foster economic and technological development, and to force
local tensions to come ouit into the open.

The imperium really doesn't even care about piracy, either... they stop
major rings, because major rings can take on tax convoys and naval
units.... One or two shiup bands are nuisances who may be ignored while not
being too blatant, and conscripted (and paid) when needed for BadWar.
Likewise, large bands provide good practice for real war....

As far as others getting the data, the ImpNav doesn't care, as most of the
data can be accumulated in other wAys.... usually easier, too.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:44:47 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement  - an aside

>
>  As for being "underguned due to the weight of their armour", both Gloire
and
>Warrior were purpose built from the ground up and their armament load-out was
>intentional (although trade-offs always occur, and armour was now the primary
>competitor). If these vessels _couldn't_ be adequately armed due to their
>defensive armour requirements, then the case against your original thesis is
>proved.
>
Warrior is fully preserved and open to the public at Portsmouth.  She is
indeed a fine ship.
We would not want to confuse ironclads with monitors...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:48:15 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re T5 Wants

>TNE's d20 system was cumbersome, simply due to math in play or having 5
>assets written down on a sheet, as P.N. did.
>
I am not sure I follow you...do you mean that it was a lot easier for the
mathematically-differently-enabled if they calculated their assets for each
difficulty level in advance for each skill?

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:51:52 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Not Quite Long)

>I've been one of the proponents of a Role-Playing ship-to-ship combat
>system. I would like to see one (albeit simple) added to the core rules of
>T5. In relartion to a Role-playing game, it simply makes more sense to me.
>Additional material for supplimental war gaming is definately a GOOD THING,
>but the core rules should address the role playing aspect.
>
>As I've said, rather a long time ago now, One of the biggest drags I've seen
>is switching to a war game mode in the middle of a game where most of the
>players not directly involved, or not interested, dirft off.
>
>Please, please, make some effort to include material that can be used for
>this. Currently I tend to use a (ever increasing) number of tasks and a
>results chart for the players attacks agains other craft, and simple results
>chart for attacks agains their own craft, with them role playing the
>activities resulting from hits.

Very fine idea, I recognise the p[roblem.  Some sort of ON THE BRIDGE rules
to keep people involved, otherwise a small ship has little to offer a group
of adventurers in combat.  Maybe it shouldn't (BL is very much a wargame,
howvere good it is), but some more detauil fdor this might be good or make
it impossible.

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

Since these folks are getting written up for one of the GT Alien books,
I have a suggestion.  Don't make them centauroid, since that will be too
much like the K'Kree and the Virushi.  I'd go for either bipeds with 4
arms, or possibly for biped/quadropeds who have two arms, two legs, and a
pari of high strength, lesser dexterity limbs which can function as either
supplementary arms, or legs (for either greater manipulative capacity, or
greater speed).  The later would make these flks pretty unique

Also, don't give them tails, since we've already got both the Ithklur and 
Hhkahr as generic, semi-dinosaurian repto-folk.  


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:12:16 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Task Systems

>>my playerrs. CT was inconsistant in methods. TNE was using multiplication
>>by fractions in play, or listing 5 assets in play... a real problem when
>>certain things (like certain pieces of equipment) add to base asset BEFORE
>>difficulty mods. T4 simply confused my player group at first, then made
>>them all realize they were GODLIKE in ability, in play at least, getting
>>far to many critical successes. Also, I like roll high systems, because
>>More is Better works for me.
>
>Admittedly, this is all personal preference. But, really, when you boil it
>down,
>that's what this list is built on ... the TNE'ers personal preference is that
>TNE (despite what non TNE'ers see as its flaws) is the best thing since sliced
>bread; ditto the CTravers, MTravers, T4ers and now GTravers.
>
>Phil

Phil, thinking back to the days of the XBoat list, I recall we have very
different approaches to rules, and have had several discussions along that
line over the past few years... One of my biggest gripes about many game
systems is a consitant and memorable task system not being present. You
write some of the best background I've read... Armageddon/Starplay is
wonderful... but the things about it that remind me of MT are the same
things I liked about MT: consistant number of dice thrown, a defined task
system that is memorable and easy to explain, background generated as part
of CGen....

and yes, it boils down to personal preference. In traveller, I use MT,
since all I use is in the 4 books: PM, RM, IE, and Ref'sComp. That is all I
"Need" to run MT. I like having the DGP stuff, too, and FSotSI I find
useful(even if it is brioken and wrong in places...). TNE didn't appeal to
me, nor, for that matter did 2nd ed T2K appeal to me over 1st ed. Both the
background changes and the rules mechanics, in both cases.... But MT
integrate Striker and CT, made a few additions, and gave me exactly what
I'd spent 2 years trying to do: use striker combat with Trav Damage. Hell,
I think I'm beginning to ramble.

So, no matter what, Phil (and everyone else), no matter how assertively I
advance my opinion, no personal offence is meant.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:20:28 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

In a message dated 10/5/98 12:21:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
DustyLV769@aol.com writes:

<< << Well, leaving out the game system (I have printing #1 ... i.e. the bug-
 ridden
  one) in areas other than the Task System ... >>
 
 I understand this completely...it was my major turn-off when MT came out in
 87.
  >>

Ed; does anyone have the '87 MT errata?

Seth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:22:23 -0700
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: T5 Wish List

I'll come out for a version of FF&S for T5.  FF&S gave a solid frame work
for the game.  Future designs are consistant with past designs.  A T5 Main
Source book should have simple & fast table based design systems for
starships and ships boats.  The tables should be obtained by using FF&S
formulas.  Gearheads will buy a FF&S book.  Gearheads will produce designs
and publish them for non-gearheads.
Gearheads will produce Starships, vehicles, weapons systems and even
orbital surfboards for T5 source books.  Source books without the
spreadsheets & formulas used to produce 'em, just the data needed to use
'em in game.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:23:57 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: A thought on Game Design

One of the things I realized while reading a copy of CORPS 1st ed is just
how different game design is now from when the LBB's came out.

Back then, basic sets were rules mechanics, usually devoid of background.
Settings were all supplements. Examples: D&D vs Greyhawk; Runequest vs
Glorantha; Space Opera vs the various sector books; CT.

Now, most games are over  50% background material, and usually about 30%
Cgen, and the other 20% being the rules mechanics. Perfect examples are
WoD (Vampire, Mage, Werewolf, etc), Fading Suns, SLA industries.


MT was mostly rules and CGen, with about 30% of the base three books being
background; about normal for that era (85-90).

TNE was about the same... but slightly more space on CGen IIRC.

2300ad, like MT, was tied to its' setting in CGen, but easily divorceable.

In 1st ed of CORPS, the author note that it was the first time he'd written
a game with more space on background than on rules....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:26:04 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

In a message dated 10/5/98 12:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< 
 I like the High Guard system.  Sure, it doesn't break the design down further
 than the system level, but that's almost as gearheaded as I need to be.  I've
 never had the time to sit down and learn the MT system of doing things.
 
 Keven
  >>

...and if you use Mayday for vector movement (Mayday says to use 0-5 hexes as
close, and 5-15 hexes as far range) and add some simple sensor rules; you have
BR/BL junior.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:29:41 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

In a message dated 10/5/98 1:09:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dlpulver@kos.net
writes:

<< Actually, I think Hans was asking because it's one of the races we are
 putting in GURPS Trav Alien I, and we wanted to make sure there hadn't
 been anything else canon on them other then the brief mention of a
 six-limbed race from a high gee world in Alien Module: Zhodani.
 
 Anyway, already done up details for 'em (though of course I suppose the
 GURPS stats could be different than any for T5).
 
 
 
 -David
  >>

Mr. Pulver: Will one of these "minor" aliens be the "mystery lizard" shown in
the Daibei section of The Rebellion Sourcebook (MT)? I have always wondered
what this picture represented, as there was NO caption, and no mention of the
drawing in the Daibei data.

Seth 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:30:45 EDT
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Not Quite Long)

In a message dated 10/5/98 10:04:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au writes:

<< 
 Very fine idea, I recognise the p[roblem.  Some sort of ON THE BRIDGE rules
 to keep people involved, otherwise a small ship has little to offer a group
 of adventurers in combat.  Maybe it shouldn't (BL is very much a wargame,
 howvere good it is), but some more detauil fdor this might be good or make
 it impossible.
 
  >>
This is an excellent suggestion.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:26 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Big Brother Transponders ; )  (was:Transponder's true nature)

> >I'll take the Imperial Navy against the MM.  Any day of the week (well
maybe
> >not on Tuesday<g>).
> >
> 
> You really do not understand logistics.  The US military would colapse in a

lol.  And you do?  Stick w/ electronics, EE guy, and leave the military stuff
alone.

> A MBT crew would not last long in urban combat in the US.  I'd love to see
> them TRY am refuel under sniper fire or maintain supply in a hostile US.  NO

You're getting into areas in which YOU have ZERO practical knowledge.  Dont'
watch so many movies, Chuck.  I am a current (and damned good, if I say so
myself) M1A1 US Marine tank crewman.  And we've been trained plenty in MOUT
operations.  Its done in conjuction w/ grunts and aviation (especially attack
helos).  Manueverability is limited, but your sniper better damned well stay
out of sight and mind of 1) all the tanks in teh vicinity (typically a tank
element is attached to an infantry platoon.  Tank element = 2 tanks, wingman-
leader concept) and 2) all the grunts and 3) the best protection against
snipers IS snipers (especially of USMC Scout/Sniper variety).  Overlapping
fields of observation and responsibility are a reality for tank platoons and
companies.  Sniper gets discovered, he (and the building he's in) is either
gonna be eating a 120mm HEAT round, white or red phosphorus, .50 cal, 7.62,
and/or anything the grunts want to throw his way (5.56, 40mm grenades, 7.62,
etc etc)... most likely a combo of all of the above. if we don't simply to
decide to thoroughly wreck (arty/air) a dangererou area to begin with.

If we're just rolling through, recon will make sure the path is clear of major
obstructions and we just roll through buttoned up.

> trucks, no safe loider areas.  Insergency.  For a good example of your 'big
> stick' think of Vetnam on steriods.  At least with Vetnam the military had
> secure traning and supply areas.  In a war between the population an the
> military the military will always loose IF the people want to win because
> the military is part of the population and some will turn.  What happens
> when the military is ordered to attack the town where their families live?

LOL.  Get real.  Not so black and white there, you.  Like the entire
population is somehow going to be completely and totally at odds w/ the govt
and military.  Not in the US of today, anyways.  There'd be at least a
fraction of "brown shirts," if not active endorsement and support by certain
significant segments of teh general population.  

> As long as resitry information is all that is sent then that is fine and
> there would be no reason for rebellion but in many other posts the BBs
> remember everything any tell all to all other BBs.  This would be beyond all
> reason and tollerence any anything that resembled a free sociaty which

I know of noone on this list advocating that sort of BB.  You and Hans both
had that interpretation pop up, so i'm accepting it as more than a strawman,
but I never supported that.  Just the one mentioned in Survival Margin (which
most certainly is NOT the one u're arguing against).

> would warp the TU to the point of unrecognisablility and I like the TU just

I like the *Official* TU very much.  : )

> like it is thank you very much.  Good old gorrila capitalism with a little
> light larceny and chacainery added for some spice.

The Imperium is not about capitalism but controlling its territory and
protecting its hegemony.  Free trade is just a slogan.  Even so, I always
thought of Cleon as someone w/ great vision and charisma, not of the Bill
Gates stripe presented in M:0.  The Pacification Campaigns and Solomani Rim
both come to mind.

Gary

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #895
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, October 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 896



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Vegans
Re: Transponder's true nature  (long response)
Re: What I would like to see in T5.  (not *as* long) ; )
Stand alone Traveller version
Re: A thought on Game Design
Re: GURPS Traveller Questions
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: GT: heavy cargo tender
Re: Tech advancement
Re: Imperial Transponders....
Re: "Dogs" in traveller
Re:  Addaxur
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:20:04 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Vegans

I have a question.
I never got all the CT supplements and I was wondering, were the Vegans ever
covered in
detail?

All I remember was "bipedal and vaguely humanoid"  Anyone able to help?

TV

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:22 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature  (long response)

> Unacceptable.  If you do not know how they work in general you can not let
> the interact with your players.  You can not know what will and will not
> work when they try it.  What level of forgery and electronics does it take
> to forge the BB?  What is the difficulty rating?  What is the task time?
> These MUST be known and do not say 'it can not be done'.  Everything can be

If the players don't have full TL-15 facilities at their disposal and the
basic knowledge of the principals of the black box, it is *impossible.*  If
they do have all those things, they can try.  *My* players are unlikely to get
full TL-15 facilities being in the TL12 Reformation Coalition for transponders
that aren't used anymore.

It would've been a hierarchy of difficulties.  Only by getting by *all* of
them, would it be at all *possible* (though still unlikely).  First they would
need to know whats in the black box.  Unknown to the general populace.  Next,
they need to be able to "forge" the BB (the chips inside actually).  Cloning a
chip will mean it hasn't evolved/mutated over the time since the originals'
creation, but just since it's been cloned, and will produce a false squawk.
"The chips were not bred for full independant intelligence, but rather to
respond in a sophisticed fashion in a few prescribed areas.  These areas were
the ability to communicate with each other, to exchange and update
information, and, most importantly, to recognize other sibling chips as
authentic unaltered, untampered members of their specific strain.  By
additionally limiting the chips to only receiving new information from other
authenticated sibling chips, the information loop could be sealed to exclude
counterfeit data."  SM pg 69

> done that does not inherently break the laws of the universe and even those
> thing can be done by work arround or if need be leaving the universe as in
> 'jump drive'.  Sayinf to your player 'you can't do that' is wrong.  Saying

What if it's something he can't do?  Like fly, use psionics when he doesn't
have them, tries to fiddle w/ something he must role play to get to.  If
certain state-of-the-art and top secret items and knowledge are not at the
disposal of the players, then certain acts will always be impossible.

> that the attemp failed is ok but you must know how it could be done or you
> are not playing fair with your player and are cheating them.  It is the job
> and the duty of the GM to make the rule consistant and play by them.

And I do that quite well. : )

On tech advancing:

> In a short answer NO!  What ever enablong technology could or would be
> developed could and would allow the system it made posible to be beaten.
> The hammer that drives the nail can pull the nail also.  That is the point!

So technology gets stagnant?  lol.  Hmm... have you ever seen the nails w/o
the head?  Like to see you use a hammer to get one of those out.

> The tech. that makes a system posible can override that system.  It has to
> be able to do so or it could not build it.  That the chips were bread is not
> relavent.  ANY siganl can be falsified with enough examples.  The EM
> spectrum is limited in the type of data it can past.  The power of computer
> expands by and order of magnitude every 18 months or so.  In 18 month the

That speed will not continue.  It is "canon" that tech slows down big time and
that we're in an unusual advancement curve.  In fact, tech advancement slows
to a snails pace.

> >What about pings that go very very fast w/ a miniature fibre-optic system?
Or
> >better yet, a miniature meson system of "pinging."  Nah... probably way
below
> >the minimum size, but u get my drift.  Yeah, maybe you can duplicate the
ping
> >itself, but how do you interrupt the flow w/o alerting the tamper circuit?
> >Even one missed or most miniscule error in the ping could well cause the
> >tamper circuit to fire...  Maybe you'll set it to 100 or whatever
(depending
> >on the ROP-rate of Pinging<g>).   Hows bout any of those?  Set it around
> >neutrinos, positrons, whatever... lol.  There will be something that should
be
> >uncrackable within the period from 1086 to 1130...  Eventually a flaw will
be
> >found/exploited and the system will be upgraded. In fact, it was...  that
> >exploitation was Virus, but alas was uncontrollable.
> 
> 
> And as ever flaw is plug a new one is found or created and exploited.  The

As has been pointed out by other people, in other posts, encryption is ahead
of decryption right now and it's more than plausible that it can be that way a
few thousand years in the future.  How could a miniature fb system be spoofed?
If a ping is missed (because the physical line connecting the black box w/ the
commo and/or main comp is broken and a set number of pings aren't received,
that fires the anti-tamper circuit.  How is false info fed into that sort of
system?  Now, extrapolate for a meson or neutrino pinging system of some
sort...

> >No I don't.  I'll tell you a secret...  I don't really care, actually.
It's
> >quite in the license of science-fiction believability that a transponder
chip
> >can tell the difference between an authenticated message and one forged.
You
> >make up the reason if you don't like the one in Survival Margin...
>
> 
> It work because I say so is not exceptable in an interactive game.  You must
> allow the player their own free will.  If you 'make up a reason' then I can,
> using basic logic deduce, a work arround.  Your defining it sets in in stone
> and I chissle that stone into what I want it to be.  I would take a

lol.  I'm just using the book, man!  What am I chiseling in stone? Noone uses
those systems anymore and haven't for at least 50 years by 1202.

> system in time.  With comutational power doubling every 18 months and all
> new transponders having to be backward compatable (a must for logistics
> reasons) it would not take long (20 months tops) to fine the key to forging
> the signal.

Again, computational power will not continue to double every 18 months (or
even every 18 years) according to how tech advancement canonically flattens
out.  Even if the key can be forged, which is debatable, how is it inputed
into a physically connected system (fb in this case)?

> >Ok.  So?  So what can the techs of the 57th century do?  What about 57th
> >century "copy protection?"
> >
> 
> 57th century copy protect will be defeated by 57th century hack just like
> today.  Also most companies have learned that copy protect ticks off the

Ahem... TL16-17 copy protection vs TL15 hack.  lol

> >The Deyo chips are not just ordinary Cymbeline chips. They're the product
of
> >decades of geneering on said Cymbeline chips.
> >
> 
> Not relavant.  They are still limited to the EM spetrum and the EM spectrum
> is itself limited.

What does that have to do w/ anything?  I'm sure a silicone based life-form
could probably perceive whole craploads more in the EM spectrum than we can.
That it can "feel" what a comp system "feels" like.  And that sort of fine-
tuned spoofing will be very difficult for carbon-based humans to impose
convincingly on such a creature.

> >What signals?  You talking about the anti-tamper/system disconnect?  Or
about
> >the transponder chatter?  Or both?
> >
> 
> Either or both in this case.

lol.  Your thought processes jump around a bit, don't they? ; )

> >You can always forge a transponder chatter.  The Transponder probably
> >understands it fine too.  It still gives you a false squawk because it nows
> >what it should hear but isn't.
> >
> 
> You falsify everything, that's the point.  A message that is out of
> tollerence would cause a false squak but one inside the tolerence band would
> be seen as corrent and legitimate.

Tollerance?  lol.  It's the *Thought processes" of the chip that convince
other chips of authenticity, not the specifics of what's in the chatter, but
the way the chatter is formed.  Think more of random synapse firing, etc
rather than predictable and stable 

> You are again saying it's unforagable BECAUSE it's unforgable.  Circlular
> logic.  I refuse to allow you your premiss that a perfect system can be
> built.  You mush provide me with the proof of your premiss.  How can a copy

The burden to disprove is on you.  I don't have to prove anything.  The Deyo
transponders are *Official* whether you like it or not.  The operations and
theory behind them are described in some detail, but the tech behind them is
unexplored (in reality because the writers weren't from the 57th century).
How can you disprove something that isn't detailed?  You can't.  The "tamper
circuit" is presented as a given factor.

> of a signal that is a duplicate of the signal that should be sent be told
> from the 'real' signal.  I have already shown how the signal could be forged
> within tolerence.  You must now show how your system can tell the
> difference.  How can two effectively identical signal be distinguish apart?

No you most certainly haven't!  Repost it then!

> I don't like them because they are internally inconsitant and totally
> imposible.  Your suposition that something will be invented to make them
> posible is not in itself logical as that invention would provide the method
> to again make the unbeatable system beatable.

As I said, I think the canon storyline should be justified.  You're prefer to
stick your head in the sand and pretend TNE never happened.    

> >I just say they're no more improbable than starship laser weapons w/ useful
> >range (much less jump drives, Aslan, Droyne, and meson weapons/screens).
> >
> 
> Not true.

Really?  Tell me about mesons and how decay really works, my friend.  You can
make a fortune if you can figure it out (much less jump drives).

> >You've removed my meaning from the context it was presented in.  What I
> >admitted was that The Traveller Adventure is just as easily moved to 1086
IMTU
> >as it is in the 1100 era, and that the transponders of TTA are the pre-Deyo
> >transponders (adopted in 1088 w/ a 12 year retrofit period).  Hmm... 12
years
> >makes 1100... what's the date of TTA?  I'm assuming 1105 or so.  Being in
the
> >Spinward Marches (I presume) and thus a backwater, maybe one can justify 
> > TTAs transponders being the old style even in 1105. Ya think?  ; )
> 
> 
> Then we throw out the TA.  Your system still is not posible based on the
> hard data in Signal GK.  

According to how *you* interpret it.  But of course, being a (20th century)
EE, you know what's going to be possible in electronics in 3600 years, don't
you?  Right.  : )  Nanee nah nee nah nah!  Any other EEs on the list?  It is
*official* (Survival Margin) whether you like it or not.   I'd prefer to
justify everything that makes up the OTU instead of discrading things.

> Signal GK also makes the Virus an imposibility
> bases on the discription of the lifeforms reproductive processes.  They

lol.  They're two seperate things.  Virus is the electronic meta-identity that
inhabits the chips.  But it is *not* just the chip.  Virus is a whole 'nuther
program (A TL16-17 to be precise, which matches canon: true AI being TL16-17).

> could not occure inside a working computer and a simple system flush and
> reload form backups would get rid of that virus.

It would depend on how computers work in the 57th century.  TL13+ computer
cores 
have organic cores and synaptic processing?  There may well not be an iotia of
current computer componets and elements in there.  How does that work?  lol.
In truth, noone knows.  Its *SCIENCE FICTION* man!  When you get your degree
in 57th century computer engineering come back and tell me Virus can't work.  

> I don't believe in the black coppers either.  They do not need them.  There
> are much more effient ways already in place.

Actually I don't believe in "they."  Even if they believe in me...  ; )  That
kind of paranoia is not a Good Thing.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:31 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5.  (not *as* long) ; )

1)  I'd like more of a combo of choice and chance as in TNE.  Rolls for
special adventures/duty, promotion (though this needs to be worked on more
realistically), commissions (again, more realistically), etc.  I liked the
brownie points in MT.  Also the court martial, etc.  Ties in nicely w/ the
Prisoner and Corsair careers in TNE.  I think there should be more civilian
occupations as TNE, as well.  Most importantly, a variable term length would
be appropriate.  

I've worked up a combo of the TNE and MT generations (weighed more on
TNE/choice than MT/random) for Reformation Coalition Navy and Marine Corps
characters.  I've been meaning to expand the system (especially for Coalition
member-world forces), but It meshes very nicely w/ the Medals of the
Reformation Coalition by Franklin Cain (i think).

2) TNE personal combat is quite lethal, despite the rumors, as quite a few of
my players well know.  This should be tied in w/ effects to attributes but
i've never much liked the "life force" thing in MT.

3) Of course, I think d20 gives a far better curve and the d20 "GDW House"
system is quite simple and easy to use, but I don't think it's a bright
prospect. : (

4)  TNE personal combat is well done and layered but could possible be
organized a little better, especially for novices.  A "modular" approach of
complexity would be nice.

5)  I'm all for a system of "module" ship construction as in G:T.  Not having
ever used QSDS, isn't this much the same?  A detailed system is definately a
must, though.  A simpler system can and should probably be arranged for the
less gearhead-inclined amongst us, though.

I rather prefer the Battle Rider style of presenting compact ship designs for
simplicity and BL style for "full specs."  

6)  If the rules are going to be "Milieu" specific, it should be made sure
recycled equipment lists aren't used (especially of the higher tech than the
Milieu supports).
Best bet is have the design system done and predesign equipment to put in.
Make sure all ships, weapons, and vehicles have been done and are legal and
consistent w/ teh design system.  This is a must if there is to be a design
system, at all.

7)  I really liked how the mapless/abstract system of ship combat in the TNE
main book is practically seamless w/ Brilliant Lances (which fits pretty good
w/ Battle Rider itself).  This is a must.  Include the mapless/abstract w/ the
rules and have a boxed game for tactical later.  IMO, just reprint Brilliant
Lances and/or Battle Rider (or better yet a mesh of the two.  I, for example,
use BL for PCs only and BR for NPC ships).

I also have a strong opinion that the ship combat system shouldn't be designed
from the top down.  As in having certain "right way" to win.  I'd prefer a
skill oriented space combat over something statistically oriented.  

Lastly... bring back 1/10 of a light second range band/hexes!!!

8) Only npc alien templates are probably appropriate for the main rule book.
PC probably can't be covered effectively... maybe one or two, if the main book
is going to be Milieu specific.  Otherwise stick to npc profiles/descriptions,
if that.

9) A general timeline of Imperial Space (appropriate to the Milieu), along w/
maybe a 2 page summary (also done nicely IMO in TNE).  Leave the Ancients
stuff off, aside from teh general theory of human transplantation.  Maybe it
can be reintroduced as a mystery to new players.  Some sample space is a
must... at *least* 2 subsectors... 1 fringe and 1 mature for comparison.  Most
of the setting is more appropriate in another book, I think, though. (IISS
UWP) World Building should definately be included.  The key is to use the
setting as an aid and attraction and not as a crutch that will scare off new
players.

10)  If at all, especially if the first nine points have been met, make it as
flashy as possible.  Something that can actually compete w/ ST:TNG and SW:
Revised & Expanded and teh Babylon Project...  these will be the competitors
of Traveller.  GDW always matched what TSR was putting out (they were just
getting into the flashy stuff IIRC).

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:28 EDT
From: TravelrTNE@aol.com
Subject: Stand alone Traveller version

TNE is stand alone in *ONE* book.  Setting (3 specific, in fact w/ notes on
pet pocket empires).  Personal and vehicle combat.  The space combat is a
mapless system that is nearly identicle to Brilliant Lances (the very best
Traveller space combat system for PC ships IMO). The weapons & equipment is a
compilation of alot stuff in other products.  There's even two adventures.
Add Fire, Fusion and Steel and the sky's the limit.   

Even support for non "Imperial Space" campaigns is supported through Fire,
Fusion, and Steel (the Original) w/ it's Alternate technology.  Especially
2300 and Babylon 5 type games.  No other Traveller version can say that.  The
icing on the cake is that the system is ground-up and internally consistent.  


Gary

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:38:12 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: A thought on Game Design

>Back then, basic sets were rules mechanics, usually devoid of background.
>Settings were all supplements. Examples: D&D vs Greyhawk; Runequest vs
>Glorantha; Space Opera vs the various sector books; CT.


Strangest thing, we have discussed just this issue in the Hero Mirc Chat.
Seems like most of the older gamers prefer to see Background as opposed to
mechanics.
I think we all have the CGen/mechanics we prefer, but good background is the
draw.
That is the whole reason I ordered GT.
Not because I want Gurps, but because I lost all my CT in a flood and want a
copy of the background again (I miss the LBB)

TV

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:51:27 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Questions

In a message dated 10/5/98 4:12:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca writes:

<< shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) writes:
 >  FWIW, everything I'd heard on the 2300 AD mailing list (which, having
 >_no_
 >support is a bit more militant on this subject) indicated that Mr. Sanger
 >is
 >an extremely difficult individual to deal with, and that productive
 >negotiations
 >were improbable at best.
 
 I'd say impossible. He was more than willing to have me write for him, but
 when I mentioned payment... well, after that I never received even the
 courtesy of a reply.
 
 The "new" DGP is very difficult from the old DGP. 
 
  >>

What about Mr's. Miller and Jackson buying him out, especially if he doesn't
pay his writers. He will have no product, and no incentive to stay in
business...

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  5 Oct 98 23:53:50 EDT
From: carioca@stratos.net (Aerron Winsor)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

At 07:43 PM 10/5/98 -0400, traveller@MPGN.COM wrote:


Three: no 
>vehicle generation system; that's GURPS: Vehicles.
there is nore of a starship generation system in GT than in the LBBs

>


>My point has always been, the LBB's were stand alone.  Somebody could buy a 
>set off the shelf in '77 and hack up a game.  A brand new cherry GM, starting 

GURPS lite and GT contain much more information vital to traveller games
that the original 3 LBBs ever did.

 For 
>somebody to decide 'Dammit, I wanna run a role playing game' today, with no 
>backround, he's gonna have to spend some serious money.  Period.  That is the 
>fact, and it cannot be denied.
>
he can run it with Lite nad GT not that much and lots less than TNE or T4
**-----------------------------------------------------------**
"People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting,
but SERIOUS professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a
warm place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally
hard to get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time."
                 -T.Pratchett, SMALL GODS

------------------------------

Date: Mon,  5 Oct 98 23:53:52 EDT
From: carioca@stratos.net (Aerron Winsor)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

At 09:19 PM 10/5/98 -0400, "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>> Points about percieved incompleteness are well taken, but how does it
>> distinguish GURPS:Traveller from any of the other flavors of Traveller?  IG
>> put out - how many - 22? - books in a year and a half or so...  GDW's three
>> incarnations produced a stupendous number of supplements, too.  Remember
>> that G:Traveller, IIRC, isn't a game or set of rules per se - it's a
>> backround/campaign supplement to a set of rules (GURPS)...  
>
>Simple.  Every previous incarnation of Traveller included starship & star 
>system generation rules as well as all the rules you need to have a standalone 
>game.  GURPS doesn't do this.
the only thing miss is the star system generation.  not really all that
neccecary....besides the one in book 3 was replaced what a year later? with
a better one.

>
>The supplements to CT and MT (having practically *zero* experience with TNE 
>and *absolutely* none with T4) were nice to have, but were not *necessary* for 
TNE was *not* stand alone, you couldn't even make ships.  for that mater the
LBBs 1-3 were not stand alone...no background to speak of, no vehicle
construction rules. chargen and ship design and systemgeneration that were
replaced/suplemented as fast as GDW could publish...no way is the CT boxed
set stand alone compared to GT and lite.


>play as the basic set was standalone. 

 G:T is *NOT* standalone.  What is so 
>difficult to understand here?
>
all you need is Lite to go with it and it is a better product than the basic
books 1-3. 

What is so difficult to understand here?
**-----------------------------------------------------------**
"People think that professional soldiers think a lot about fighting,
but SERIOUS professional soldiers think a lot more about food and a
warm place to sleep, because these are two things that are generally
hard to get, whereas fighting tends to turn up all the time."
                 -T.Pratchett, SMALL GODS

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:55:50 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: GT: heavy cargo tender

>
>Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: GT: heavy cargo tender
>
>Actually, given the way my designs work, I suspect for some types of load,
the
>most efficient method of handling transport is to use cheap or collapsible
>cargo containers.

That would work for containers designed only for orbital use, at the cost
of making them more specialized (no low tech planets or class D or E
ports).  I'm sure you could build collapsible containers that were
streamlined when assembled, but I'm not sure the extra expense would
justify it.

There is an international standardized container that is designed to come
apart into its flat sides and transport in a stack, but I can't find the
designation right offhand.

>> 
>> I propose that, since TNE/RCEG (p. 129) already defines "lighters" as
>> non-starships 100 dtons or greater, the term "LASH freighter" refer to
>> cargo vessels that carry streamlined riders (for low tech/D-E starport
>> worlds), while "freight tender" or "cargo tender" refers to the modular
>> version above with large, unpowered barges, and "container ship" refers to
>> specialized freighters that carry general cargo internally in standard
>> containers.
>
>For the core ship, there probably isn't much difference between a LASH and a
>cargo tender -- just some differences in the external grapples, and might be
>simple enough to be done in a few hours without a shipyard.

Depends on the size of the containers.  A LASH freighter designed for
800dton lighters could just as easily carry 800dton barges, although they
would have to be more lightly loaded (~3 stons/dton, rather than the usual
5).  I was looking into a freight tender for 30dton cutter modules, and I
don't think I can legitimately substitute 26 modules for one lighter on a
LASH design.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:58:34 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

In a message dated 10/5/98 4:40:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
prevattec@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< >The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
 >Hence my statement that defence (armour) had advanced to the point where 
 >you could put enough on a ship to make it invulnerable to its own carried
 
 No a valid argument.  You might as well say the sun is
 invunerable/indistructable simply because it is to massive to be affected by
 the weapon we can put against it.  It's a question of scale.  The guns
 mounted on the iron clads were intended to defeat wooden ships not iron
 clads and the inclads were so overweighted that they sank in a moderate
storm!
 
 >weapons. (Note that even ships with no armour - eg equivalent wooden
warships -
 >were unable to carry weapons big enough to defeat ironclads, which implies
 >that it wasn't just a problem due to undergunning.)
 >
 
 That was never tested.  Neither iron clad sank of was sunk by a wooden ship.
 At least that is as I recall it from high school history.  A very long time
ago.
  >>

Actually the 15" Dalghrens could penetrate 5" iron with 2' oak backing, when
loaded with solid shot. The Tennessee was riddled at Mobile Bay (there were
penetrations, and massive casualties from non penetrating hits causing bolts
to pop off and from wood splinters). This TERRIFIED the British and French, as
their ironclads were armored about the same way. They RAPIDLY developed
thicker armor, and then bigger guns. Nothing is inpenetrable or
unsinkable....:-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:10:01 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial Transponders....

>>I saw this tallent long before MT an a magizine trying >to identify the
>>Special catigory
>
>  Possibly JTAS #5? Still non-canon. Heretic. :>
My understanding of the Special category was that it was deliberately undefined so GMs could add their own fun things to Psionics or to better model the universe for the background they preferred.  Computer empathy is one that is referred to in later CT material IIRC, so is not entirely non-cannon.  I definately wouldn't consider this heretical (possibley non-standard however).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:59:50 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Dogs" in traveller

In a message dated 10/5/98 4:41:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
prevattec@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< Does anybody have ideas about what 'companion' animals would be like in the
 Traveller universe?  What 'Biological' inhancemant would good old shep go
 through to become the pet of tomarrow?  What about felus dimesticus?  What
 new 'pets' and gaurd animals would there be?  I think such animal could add
 some interesting color to traveller ships passengers and adventures.  How do
 the aventures deal the the 'gaurd beast' protecting the warehouse where
 their confiscated cargo is stored?
 
 Charles.
  >>

I can't wait for the 50 kilo cat! That would be one BIG friggen litter box to
empty...:-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:03:48 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Addaxur

>><<   Are the Addaxur (AM:4 - Zhodani) covered in detail anywhere?  >>
>>
>>No. But I have a minor race creation system in draft form. Want to start
>>talking about them?
>
>  We just did :) We know (from AM: 4 - dirty Zho's) that they have an empire
>[or reserve :( ] of ten systems in sub-sector G of Tienspevnekr, and were
>discovered 300 years after the Zho's used jump drives to start expanding the
>polity they'd established using STL (-5,120/~5,110). It's unclear how they
>feel about losing the rest of their original (37 system) empire, but
presumably
>these were only lightly settled at best.


  Uh. Zhodani Module, page 3:
  "Zhdant has a population of 83 million, of whom more than 90% are racial
Zhodani. Significant non-Zhodani population is primarily Addaxur."


  When I did Tienspevnekr sector for HIWG five years ago (The Tienspevnekr
writeup on the HIWG CD is mine), that line led to my placing Addaxur
worlds and populations all over the sector. I KNOW where all of the
original Addaxur worlds are, and where the "reservation" is now...

...but I still don't know what they look like. I was sort of aiming
at a multi-legged reptiloid hyena, but the concept faded. I maintain
that the vast majority are low-slung and positively cheerful.
"Happy carnivores."

 The Addaxur were the Zhodani's first real First Contact situation. The
Zho passed the test with flying colors for two reasons: they and the
Addaxur really are compatible, and the Zhodani spent years watching the
Addaxur before speaking to them. This set of techniques works sometimes,
and has utterly failed at others (thus generating library data, hee hee)

 The Addaxur Reservation is a true sovereign state by ancient pact and
tradition. "Reservation" does not carry the same stigma that is attached
to what we Yanks did/are doing/will do to the American Indians. Many of
the worlds of the old Addaxur "Empire" still have Addaxur on them. The
Zhodani did not deport them 5000 years ago, and have not discouraged
Addaxur immigrants since then.


GypsyComet
GypsyComet@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:06:41 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Date sent:      	Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:48:40 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>Now, there has been some expression of dislike by those who honestly
>don't care for the GURPS system and have similar objections.
>What has disappointed me has been attempts by others to use
>the trade offs that space limitation force, by  necessity, to
>pick at things that couldn't be included in the first book and
>try and blow them up as major  things.  There seems to be a small
>faction out there that seems to just wants it to fail and looks for
>bad things to say about it.

Here I have to agree. Now I don't like GURPS and I think there are aspects of 
G:T which don't reproduce Traveller well. I even think the omission of a basic 
world gen system OR a predesigned subsector (Regina would be my pick) in 
G:T is a problem. However I think that this problem is easily fixed. The first 
solution that springs to mind is to simply put a link on the G:T webpage to Jim 
Vassilakos Gal 2.4 (or better yet mirror it on their own FTP site). This along 
with the conversion rules in G:T would provide a new ref with more than enough 
info to start a game. I do however really hope that G:T is a huge success since 
its likely to create a market for T5 and the books are excellant source material 
for any version of Traveller. I don't like the TNE system, but it doesn't stop me 
from plundering the sourcebooks ruthelessly for my own use.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:06:41 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

Date sent:      	Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:02:06 -0700
From:           	"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

>Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:31:58 +1300, "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance"
><a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>

>>Nope, no world gen (book 3). As it stands I 'd say you need at least three
>>books to run G:T "properly": GURPS basic, G:T and Space or BTC  (total cost
>>$67.85).

>What you are doing is taking anything that the LLBs had that
>GT doesn't have and assuming it to be required

Nope, I'm looking at what you need to get started; and you need either a 
pregenerated play area or a world gen system. Either would do, as it stands 
G:T has neither.

>and taking
>anything that GT has that the LLBs didn't have an ignoring it.
>Yes, GT doesn't have world generation.  Does it have less than
>the LLB's?  No!  It has more.  It has background

Most of which you don't _need_ to get started :*> However this is why I 
compared G:T with T4 plus M:0

>info, a sample race, etc.  If I was going to run a new adventure
>I would have an easier time with GT and Basic (or even GURPS
>Lite) than I would with the LLBs.

No you've misread what I wrote. I took what I think would be the minium 
required to "properly" run G:T and T4 (I never mentioned the LBB). For G:T I felt 
that 3 books were required (one basic rules, one backgroun, one to fill out a 
minor omission), for T4 I felt two were required (rules and background). I then 
went on to suggest simple and easy solutions to the omission of a world gen 
system. You need worlds to play the game, the info is all available free in Gal 
2.4 and I then suggested that the simplest solution to this perceived problem 
would be a link on the G:T webpage to Gal 2.4.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #896
**********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, October 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 897



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Missile defense question
Re: "Dogs" in traveller
Re(2): Addaxur
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Re: A thought on Game Design
GURPS Traveller: What it is and what it isn't.
G:T alien races I art
Re: Tech advancement  - an aside
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re Transponders
re: "user unfriendly" stuff
re: Transponders
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: Tech advancement
Re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #887
Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
Re Transponders
Re: Tech advancement  - an aside
re: Transponder's true nature
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:18:07 EDT
From: DustyLV769@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

In a message dated 10/5/98 19:49:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au writes:

<< What about QSDS and SSDS? >>

A reasonable point...had the systems mentioned above not been broken from the
get-go.  Plus the fact that my players were into the grand-scale, Pocket
Empires/TCS type campaigns...I needed ships bigger than 500dt.  To me and
mine, no "cruiser" is 1250 tons!  :-)

Dusty

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:02:06 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
Subject: Missile defense question

>>>>
Is it possible to use meson and particle bays (or turrets,
in the case of PAWs) as a last-ditch point defense weapon?  Granted that it
would be incredibly wasteful of power and space...but in an emergency?
>>>>
That might be like using a 5in battleship gun against a torpedo or missile -- possible but problematical (not to mention overkill).  I don't see any problem with aiming (especially since we are assuming targeting computers that are reasonably good to get several hex precision shots).  I do think there may be questions about speed of aiming against something with some agility that may be only a couple of thousand km away instead of tens of thousands of km away.  The analogy I think of (even though it is a
different universe) is the Death Star in Star Wars where they couldn't catch the fighters with the main guns because they had too much agility and were too close.  The weapons were designed for a different set of circumstances (though they did manage to catch some of the fighters).
- - Joseph

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:29:24 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: "Dogs" in traveller

I suspect that they would remain pretty much the same pets that heave been
with us for the last couple of thousand ywears, and for the same reasons.

><< Does anybody have ideas about what 'companion' animals would be like in
the
> Traveller universe?  What 'Biological' inhancemant would good old shep go
> through to become the pet of tomarrow?  What about felus dimesticus?  What
> new 'pets' and gaurd animals would there be?  I think such animal could add
> some interesting color to traveller ships passengers and adventures.  How do
> the aventures deal the the 'gaurd beast' protecting the warehouse where
> their confiscated cargo is stored?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:47:18 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Re(2): Addaxur

>When I did Tienspevnekr sector for HIWG five years ago (The Tienspevnekr
>writeup on the HIWG CD is mine),

 Sorry, make that seven years ago. Sigh.

 If it interests anyone, I can put the Sector list and library data on my
website sometime next week (assuming the, er, talented technician who has
my computer doesn't unnecessarily erase my hard drive, in which case it
will take a little longer...). The dot map is already there, and shows
the modern Reservation.

GypsyComet
GypsyComet@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:03:05 -0600
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

>
>Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:06:41 +1300
>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
>
>Here I have to agree. Now I don't like GURPS and I think there are aspects
of 
>G:T which don't reproduce Traveller well. I even think the omission of a
basic 
>world gen system OR a predesigned subsector (Regina would be my pick) in 
>G:T is a problem. However I think that this problem is easily fixed. The
first 
>solution that springs to mind is to simply put a link on the G:T webpage
to Jim 
>Vassilakos Gal 2.4 (or better yet mirror it on their own FTP site).

The Traveller Links page at the GT website is:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/links.html

It includes a link to the Traveller webring and ends with the offer:

"If you have a page you'd like listed here, send the URL and a brief
description to jlockett@io.com."

I don't have the URL for Galactic handy, Andrew - will you send it in?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:25:03 -0500
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: A thought on Game Design

Thomas Vickers wrote:

> Subject: Re: A thought on Game Design
<snip> 
> That is the whole reason I ordered GT.
> Not because I want Gurps, but because I lost all my CT in a flood and want a
> copy of the background again (I miss the LBB)
> 
> TV

SOB! I understand _exactly_ how you feel, my COMPLETE collection
(Everything of GDWs, most of DGP, some Judge's Guild, some Gamelords,
some FASA) of CT and MT were destroyed in a flood.

Over the years I have spent _tons_ of money trying to rebuild my
collection. I'm nearly finished...all I have left are the hard to find
rare items (Early JTAS, Early Trav Digests, Atlas of the Imperium, Grand
Survey, World builders Handbook, 101 Robots, FASA stuff...).

I wish you the best of luck rebuilding your own collection. I know how
hard it is.

- -- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:31:41 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller: What it is and what it isn't.

GURPS Traveller is not a stand-alone game. It is a SUPPLEMENT for an
existing game system, GURPS. To use it, you need some form of the GURPS
rules, most likely the Basic Set or at the least the GURPSLite available
free on the net. You might want Compendium I and EITHER Gurps Space or
Compendium II for some of the rules in there.
You might want Ultra-Tech's 1 and 2 and maybe Vehicles IF you want more
ships and vehicles than those that will be put out in the GT supplements IF
you plan on buying those. But you do NOT need these things. If you want to
make up worlds, and why you would need to when books on the Spinward
Marches and Solomani Rim will be coming out I don't know (if you're gonna
make up your own sector, you'd most likely use either GURPS Space or
Traveller for that anyway), you can do so from a number of sources, ven
just using your imagination! I would say you might want the Basic Set,
GURPS Traveller and maybe Space, and you're set. I simply do not understand
why people don't realize that game companies cannot just put out a game
once and live off it forever! Supplements are a fact of life! If you don't
want to buy it, don't buy it! People who are most likely to buy it probably
have the other GURPS books mentioned anyway. Others may buy it to mine for
ideas for the version of Traveller they are playing in which case they need
buy no other books anyway!

GURPS Traveller is a port of the Traveller background to the GURPS rules
system, with that background altered to a "no-Rebellion" alternate world
for those who never cared for that background and likely to avoid competing
with the "real" Traveller timeline. Because some of us might PREFER GURPS
Traveller to the "real" Traveller both for system and background reasons is
no reason to get upset over. Some believe that this version will "replace"
the "original" timeline. I think this idea will last just long enough for
T5 to come out, and then will be forgotten. But I am not a prophet...only
one person knows, and that's Marc. And he will comment if he chooses to.

This is my final comment on the whole thing. I play what I like, you play
what you like. More power to both of us.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:20:24 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: G:T alien races I art

I've just visited the G:T site and it seems that some art from Alien races I is up.

<http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/AlienRaces/art.html>

Okay, I like it, I'm not sure about the Vargr ship, it just doesn't have enough fins 
etc. However I do like it. I assume that the six legged creature disembowling 
the Vargr is an Adduxur.

Andrew etc.
  a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
  http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/index.htm
IMTU Code
  tc tm- tn-- t4+ ?tg- @ru @ge !@3i -jt+ au- st+ ls- pi-
  kk+ hi- as va+ dr++ so++ zh+ vi-- da ?si lu++ su+ ge

*****************************************************************
Names Explained 7: KARL
More Teutonic than the English Charles, Karls can often be found
advising US Presidents on the underutilisation of nuclear weapons
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:11:02 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Tech advancement  - an aside

>From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: Tech advancement  - an aside
...
>Warrior is fully preserved and open to the public at Portsmouth.  She is
>indeed a fine ship.
>We would not want to confuse ironclads with monitors...

  Did I? I thought Warrior was designed as an ocean-hoing vessel?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:11:23 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
...
>The supplements to CT and MT (having practically *zero* experience with TNE 
>and *absolutely* none with T4) were nice to have, but were not *necessary* for 
>play as the basic set was standalone.  G:T is *NOT* standalone.  What is so 
>difficult to understand here?

  I see your point; however, it is useful to point out that the correct
comparison
is to GURPS basic (rules for _lots_ of stuff, no background) versus the original
LBB's. Thus, G:T is the equivalent of the background Supplements,
Adventures, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:35:58 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re Transponders

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
>Subject: Re Transponders
...
>IMTU, the imperium IS ruthless. No gentle trade association, it fosters
>free trade so as to foster a stable tax base from which to perpetuate its
>self. It protects Sapient rights only so that sapients will be ablke to
>work and pay taxes, and maintain order. Truth be told, the imperium
>couldn't care less about Jack being killed by Jill, save that it defines
>Murder as a crime so that members will join. All the benefits are merely
>there to get members to stay members, so that the Imperium gets its taxes.

  My, now that is cynical! (are you sure that you're not Illuminated?)

  Hmm, now if I could only think of a (competent) government that _didn't_
behave that way...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:36:15 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: "user unfriendly" stuff

>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
...
>I agree with Dave on this.  If it wasn't for this "user unfriendly"
>material I would have dropped Traveller long ago.  My first book was
>High Guard, and it did NOT go into enough detail for me.  I disliked
>Book 2 from the start.  and from the discussions on trav-tech there is a
>need for a comprehensive vehicle design.  Although we should do our best
>to make a fast/simple version for the basic rules.

  You can sort of tweak HG using Striker, and eventually the CT people
will have their revenge with a Striker spreadsheet...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:36:27 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Transponders

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: re: Transponders
...
>It;s not the civilian data I was worried about there.  The recorders record
>ALL ships met including military.  That data could be very usefull to the
enemy.

  Understood. I disagree with the concept of them passing along that data
with their squirts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:37:29 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

>From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@glasscity.net>
>Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
...
>>   People ran RPG's off of SJG's "Man to Man", from which GURPS:Lite is a 
>> _huge_ advance. Im all seriousness, when I run I'll probably leave the
>> guns & ammo supplements at home (UT 1/2, Vehicles - _if_ I use it) and use
>> GURPS Basic, G:T, and my LBB's :)
>
>What if you *DIDN'T* have your LBBs?  That's the question.  If you have *NO* 
>LBB's or other Traveller materials to work with, you're screwed if you think 
>you can run anything on GURPS Basic & G:T.

  Ignoring net stuff, I'm sure I could get by with G:T, BTC, and either Lite
or (preferably) Basic. If I wanted to I'd fly with G:T and Lite only - what's
the costing on G:T, anyway?

  As for newbies? Most GURPS players already have most of the items they want
except for G:T itself - and we have to acknowledge that SJG at least wants to
sell (good, or great if possible) product. Anyone new to GURPS is facing the
same problem with _most_ systems out there (AD&D, Cthulhu, that goth stuff...).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:37:49 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Tech advancement
...
>>  The above would be a highly questionable summation, to say the least. Early
>>ironclads were not failures (at least not in the `50's-`60's) and went a long
>>way towards making non-armourclad battleships obsolete in short order. IIRC,
>>there were numbers of duels during the war between Union warships and fortress
>>batteries of the South, and the conventional surface warships neutralized by
>>the Virginia were not themselves undergunned. Indeed, if the Merrimack was
>>undergunned then no warship of the period could have been adequately armed,
>>which was Mr. Johnson's point, I believe.
>
>My information on the Monitor and Merrimack was that they were undergunned
>compared to similar ships of the period of the same tonage.  As I recall
>from long ago one of them only mounted guns in its' one turret.  As for the

  The Monitor was designed only to have turret guns - _very large ones_; this
is no way was a design flaw (flaw vs. feature - this sounds familiar :> ) -
AFAIK CSS Virginia had a normal load-out; I lack proper operational details
at this time.

...
>of.  WWI sea craftare not an area I have studied.  It was my understanding
>though that there was no ship in WWI that could survive a torpedo attack

  Probably true, as the slaughter of poorly compartmentalized pre-Dreadnoughts
at the straits proved. Later _designs_ were very robust indeed.

>unbreached.  That would prove my point as far as that goes.  It has been my
>only contention that any thing made be man can be beaten by man.  That is my
>theory and as yet it has not been disproved.  I had no intention of geting
>into an argument over historical weapons systems that I have only distant
>memories about from high school.  My statement is that in their time there
>were weapon that could defeat them even if it took raming by a similar ships
>to do so.  It's alway easier to distroy that create.

  Your original thesis was that (IIRC) these situations don't occur; you
are, IMO, largely correct overall, although in the details there are quite
substantial temporary anomalies. Neither "theory" addresses the fact that
solutions need to be in the same ballpark of technological capability to be
practical.

        Steven Hudson
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:38:13 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature
...
>>  The possibility exists that it is only possible at TL 15-16 with the use
>>of the original Cymbeline chip stock; the IN's behaviour in Signal GK is
>>consistent with this theory, and _someone_ nuked Cymbeline during the 
>>Rebellion, likely for this same reason.
>>
>>  If this does comprise a needed component to compromise the canonical
>>SDG's at normal Trav techs, then attempts to do so are otherwise going
>>to fail.
>
>With teleportaion and matter creation technology you could make all the
>copies you wanted.  Use teleporter to scan it and matter creater to
>reproduce it.  If the chips evolved to begin with they could be
>cloned/remanufactured or whatever you want to call it.  The fact is SOMEBODY
>develope that transponder and that person could reproduce it and someone
>else as bright could rediscover the process.

  <giggle> Wrong universe :)  There are no matter teleporter/replicators in
the OTU, nor simple "poof it's replicated" machines either, except perhaps
as Ancient artifacts (what does TL 45 do is perhaps less relevant than what
_doesn't_ it do).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 15:29:21 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886

><< What about QSDS and SSDS? >>
>
>A reasonable point...had the systems mentioned above not been broken from the
>get-go.  Plus the fact that my players were into the grand-scale, Pocket
>Empires/TCS type campaigns...I needed ships bigger than 500dt.  To me and
>mine, no "cruiser" is 1250 tons!  :-)
>
>Dusty
>
Good pick, but they are fixed now (aren't they?)...The problem of designing
large vessels is a real problem  without FF&S1/2  How about extending
either of the above to include large ships, generating BR stats, for which
less detail ought to be required.  has it already been done?

Colin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 98 00:37:53 -0700
From: Tim Carroll <timc@paratwa.org>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #887

>But if I recall right, G:T also needs ("recommends") the Character 
>Compendium,
>GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech 1&2, and Vehicles also.  I am a little old-fashioned;
>when I buy a game, I hope it has everything in it to play the game.  I can 
>get
>by w/ just GURPS Basic and G: T...but only because I have 14+ years of other
>info to fall back on:  a player completely new to Trav would not have this
>benefit.

Recommends is a more reasonable assessment.  Heck, players got along for 
years without a Compendium.  And while there were some advantages and 
disads that appeared in every supplement for a while (Contacts, Secret), 
those were added in the 3rd Edition Revised Basic Rulebook.  The 
Compendiums were designed to save people money -- so that you didn't have 
to have 20+ books (half of which were out of print) to have all the rules 
you might want to have.

Seriously, you could easily run a game with GURPS Basic, GURPS Space and 
GURPS Traveller.  Behind the Claw could be substituted for GURPS Space -- 
you either need sample worlds or World Generation rules -- not both.  If 
you didn't a lot of ads and disads, you could get away with GURPS lite -- 
this could be considered to be pretty close to classic Traveller, which 
didn't have ads or disads at all.

Vehicles would only be required for ex-Striker die hards (me! me!) who 
liked tinkering with vehicle designs.  The math is geeky enough that I 
wouldn't ever recommend it as a required book.  (Understand that I'm not 
knocking it at all -- it is an awesome book -- but some of my friends 
aren't engineers).

Ultra-techs are not as useful for GURPS Traveller because a lot of the 
gadgets are higher tech than a typical traveller game.  A fair number of 
useful gadgets, but not really required for play.  G:T has a pretty 
complete set of weapons and armor already.

GURPS Space is probably a requirement if you want a lot of detail on 
space campaigns -- but having said that, GURPS Space is a damn good book 
and anyone running SF should probably own a copy. :D




>The LBB set of 3 was sold as *ONE* package.  To play G:T, you need at 
>*LEAST* 
>2 purchases: Gurps core rules *and* G:T.  You need the core rules for 
>*everything*, G:T is just a background supplement, from what I've heard.  
>And 
>to do anything that's not in BTC, you'll need G:Space of course, the 
>G:Vehicles thingie, and a couple more to round things out.  You're looking 
>at 
>no less than 40 bucks minimum, maybe as much as 2-300 all tricked out.  
>G:T is 
>*NOT* playable by itself.  The LBB's *were*.


Let's see, the little black books didn't have any background at all.  So 
you obviously couldn't run something in the Traveller background without 
adding a bunch of stuff:

Supplement 3 or Supplement 10 or Spinward Marches Campaign
Library Data A-M, N-Z
Striker (since you wanted GURPS Vehicles on the required list).
Numerous adventures to get bits and pieces of the background and history.
Mercenary and High Guard (more advanced weapons and ships found in G:T)
JTAS back issues (for sparse backgrounds on some of the alien races, 
which is all the core G:T rulebook provides).

The original 3 rulebooks were nice, but they were almost completely 
rules.  If you wanted that, you could get by with GURPS Space and GURPS 
Lite -- and actually have *more* advice on running different types of SF 
campaigns than you'd find in the original Traveller rulebook.  Heck, 
you'd actually have stuff on alien races!  I'm not knocking the original 
Traveller rules -- I grew up on them too.  But the background didn't come 
until later.  And looking at BTC and G:T, most of the content is pure 
background.

If you wanted to run GURPS:Traveller and have gobs of choices, rules, 
etc,  I'd say you would not need more than:

GURPS Basic (3rd revised)
GURPS Space
GURPS Traveller
Behind the Claw

Maybe $80-$90 bucks, but you are getting a lot of bang for that buck. 
GURPS Space isn't a requirement but has many interesting rules (where 
were real rules for heavy-G worlds in the LBBs?) as well as tons of 
different campaign ideas. And probably isn't required if you've got 
Behind the Claw, because you don't need rules for generating new 
planetary systems.

If you wanted to run Traveller on a budget, you could probably get away 
with GURPS Traveller and Behind the Claw, using GURPS Lite as your core 
rules.  Might be a little light on the skills list, but so were books 
1-3.  The only thing you'd really lack with the budget version would be 
Psionics rules.


Something else to keep in mind -- printing costs are much higher than 
they were 20 years ago.  Paper costs a lot more.  I bet you'd have a hard 
time selling one of the LBBs for less than about $10-12 bucks, which 
would make the "minimum set" more expensive than the 4 GURPS books.  I 
seem to recall that Steve Jackson stopped selling the 32 page adventures 
because it was impossible to make any money off of them.  128 page books 
became the minimum to actually make money.

Tim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:49:42 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>
>Subject: Re: Repulsor Question (GT related)
...
>>   In that case, the excuse is wildly unbelievable as they can't reasonably
>> stop anything other than contact missiles from impacting, let alone nuke-
>> dets at 50,000 km's.
...
>No requirement to do so.  Nuke-dets are not exactly CT canon, blame 'star wars'
>for that idea.  High reliability at five kilometers is plenty to deal with
>conventional missiles, and for an armored ship will also do a fine job against
>medium-sized nuclear weapons (depending mostly on quality of radiation
>shielding on a warship).  Give it a fifty-k range and no practical simple
>nuclear weapon will be a threat.

  Ah, problem. As a Striker splinter of the CT cult, I must strive for
verisimilitude in my gearheadedness; the acceptance of contact missiles
in a high ROF/high accuracy beam environment is a sin, as the firing
solutions can be clearly demonstrated to make such munitions unworkable.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:49:47 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re Transponders

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
>Subject: Re Transponders
...
>Still IMTU, the Imperium actually likes small local warfare, as war does
>stimulate economies. In certain areas, the ImpNav will infiltrate and START
>a local wwar to foster economic and technological development, and to force
>local tensions to come ouit into the open.

  I'm sure that the Imperiums representatives can think of various reasons
to make their locales more exciting, but the economic growth attributed to
warfare is a particularly naughty and inaccurate overgeneralization - you
could just as well build pyramids (or throw shells, aircraft and tanks into
the ocean if it amused you) as long as you can command the resources and get
everyone to go along with any reductions in their living standard (or numbers
:> ) that might be involved.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 15:41:15 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement  - an aside

Oh dear that was a bit brief: yes Warrior is a fine ocean going vessel.
The other point was intended to be quite separate. (Whip Whip)  Monitors
are not prioperly comparable with warships because of a lack of the above
ability.  They may duel around harbours, but that it about it.  i suspect
that Ocean going ironclads were more vulnerable to each other than monitor
versus monitor engagements.  Later I think that the superior broadsides of
the Ocean going types would overwhelm the monitors.  Interestingly though
you see the tradition of the 1860's monitor carried on in two directions,
as army support vessels (Erebus, terror, Leonardo da Vinci), and Coastal
defence Battleships of the Siamese, and Swedish navies.

Cheers
Colin

>
>  Did I? I thought Warrior was designed as an ocean-hoing vessel?
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:27:26 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: re: Transponder's true nature

>From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
>Subject: re: Transponder's true nature
...
>circuitry, because it _isn't_ a static piece of circuitry. How long is it
>going to take for your reverse-engineer pirates to make _THAT_ conceptual leap?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I'll lay you odds that by TL13-15 you'll have scanning gear that will let
>you map circuit diagrams and possibly electron pathways through that
>black box - unless you completely shield the box. I mean _completely_,
>so completely that there aren't even any input or output feeds - which
>would make the tranponder useless.

  It would be remarkably difficult to argue what will except in the year 5000
AD, so could we start by limiting ourselves to what exists in Traveller? :)

...
>of the substrate they work on, can _not_ be more complicated than
>an artificial silicon-based intelligence - and such things do exist in
>the Traveller universe.

  Is that a statement that quality of "software" (or education/experience,
whatever) will not be an issue for future computers (/AI's)?

...
>What's really going on: Corsair _Hunting Horror_ stole or otherwise
>acquired a couple dozen unused transponders. They put each one
>in a VR network, convinced them that they had just been installed
>on a bunch of ships undergoing refit at a legitimate starport. 
>The chips talk to each other, seeing each other as traffic at this
>simulated starport and traffic pattern.
...

  This is one of the best schemes I've heard yet, but getting _dozens_
of strategic warfare devices is going to be _really_ tough: IMTU, about
once in a generation if it went down. The 3I uses heavy cruisers to ship
_table wine_, for Cthulhu's sake! (fleet couriers work about as well, IMO).
One shudders to think what the local fleet maneuvers cycle would be like
until NI was certain that the case was closed...

>The fiction won't last long, but that's OK - _Hunting Horror_ has
>a dozen other chips ready to drop out of the VR network. _Horror_
>doesn't need to pass for weeks at a time, just sow some momentary
>confusion.

  A patrol ship that has info that clashes with such a vessels faked
up squirts is still going to be earning commendations all round.

>All the above takes is a TL13 computer (virtual realities), a shipment
>of transponders (these things need to be stocked at every A or B
>starport and every Naval or Scout base, as well as every corporate,
>private or government shipyard, a shipment will eventually go astray),
>and a technician who used to install transponders (there will be hundreds
>of thousands of people like this). The transponders in your VR net
...

  Quite possible, but only if INI or whoever won the war for implementation
is fairly incompetent; any normal power-hungry bureaucracy will turn this
into their own feudal preserve even before any hyper-patriotic (and paranoid)
spooks get involved.

  There's absolutely no need (unless you want to make security more porous)
for these units to be un-imprinted anywhere but in transit, at Naval facilities,
and at major ports - with pre-arranged registration a fully imprinted box
could arrive ready for hook-up at a smaller A port (why the heck they would
need to be stored at ports that can't build starships escapes me).

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:27:36 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature
...
>One thing you keep conveniently egnoring is the effect of this perfect
>technology.  If such a perfect system that keeps perfect records of
>everything existed then you would end up with a perfect mess.  Complete
>record of all ship movments would be available to ANY official in ANY habor
>for verification reason.  So you know were everybody is all of the time.
>You know where every cargo began it's journey and ended it's trip.  No
>secrecy.  No privacy.  NO FREEDOM!  NO SAFETY.  By it's very nature this
>system is a deathtrap to the Empire that uses it.  Sure you have near
>absolute control of travel but NO ONE want that least of all the Empirial
>Inteigence Corps.  Such extensive UNFORGABLE records would make clandestine
>operationms imposible for the Empire because there would always be some
>'free trader' squawk box that knew that so-and-so or such-in-such was not
>true and it would tell everyone it met until the secret was out.  

  The above speech, although eloquent, may not be at all relevant to the
official mind of the Third Imperium. Neither the secrecy nor privacy of its'
inhabitants lives is an inherently good thing for the 3I, and may in fact be
a provably bad thing, from their POV. The only freedom that the 3I cares
about is its' own freedom of action - the freedom of its' citizens doesn't
appear to be a great concern - nor their safety or even survival, so long as
they expire in a discreet and not too destructive fashion.

  Naval Intelligence most certainly does want perfect information, but they
also insist that _no one else have it_ :>  If their own ops keep getting
flagged (or ImperialLines TJ's) it merely proves that the system is working.

  It's not original to point out that in a world where almost nothing can be
concealed from the few, a very great deal may yet be concealed from the masses.
(hmm, there's a basis for an anti-Zho rant there...)

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #897
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, October 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 898



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re Transponders
Re: Vegans
Re: "Dogs" in traveller
Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)
Re: Vehicle & Starship Design
Re TNE Assets
Cats in Traveller
[none]
Re: Vehicle & Starship Design
Re Imperial Govt IMTU
Re: Re Hero Traveller and JoT
Ironclads
Ironclads
Re: Tech advancement  - an aside
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 
Re: other RPG mailing lists
Re: (was 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:28:18 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Re Transponders

>From: Charles Prevatte <prevattec@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Re Transponders
...
>>box to be pretty much a solid IC unit... 3 dimensional circutry. With a
>>socket for the SDG chip, which is secured with a tel-tale that goes off
>>when any of the screws is removed. Info available is the same, plus, if the
>>chip feels it is dealing with a valid and trustworthy Imp-Mil chip,
>>anything else it may know.
>
>How do you play out the scocial effect of this level of Big Brotherism?
>This system makes private travel all but imposible.  During regular
>maintainence the complete log could and probably would be downloaded to the
>Impires athorities.  You are talking about the equivalent of a log of every
>place a car went, when it went there, how long it stayed, and in some cases,
>what it was carring and who.  This has to have effect on the
>social/political part of the TU.  What about companies buying this
>information on their competiter?  What about this information falling into
>Zodonie or Solomanie hands?

  As long as it's not warships being tracked all essential strategic data is
already available to foreign governments. Even without the SDG boxes you'd
still have starport (and other vessel/facility) traffic logs, and it requires
a certain type of intent to believe that that information will not (or can't!)
be collated. Ultimately, the effect is little different from flying over from
Asia, travelling from coast to coast by car, and spending a week in a city at
each end; if you do it all on plastic what can be learned about you in fairly
short order? In a month?

  Internally, the Imperium really only wants to keep an eye on very
influential political incorrigibles, and starships. They don't need to worry
about checking
the phone company records, grocery bills, and bank balances of their average
drone "citizen", _so long as they keep their eyes on the balls that matter_.

  OTOH, if the 3I really is dumb as rocks then we can only assume that the
Templars or Cthulhu Itself are keeping them safe from the nefarious claws
of Sol-Sec. :>

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 05:17:30 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Vegans

At 10:20 PM 10/5/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>I have a question.
>I never got all the CT supplements and I was wondering, were the Vegans ever
>covered in
>detail?
>
>All I remember was "bipedal and vaguely humanoid"  Anyone able to help?

The were never covered in terms of a Contact-like
article, but they had a long write-up in one of
the Library Data books. Since you might have trouble
finding those, look in GURPS Traveller, pp.73-74.
It's pretty much the same information.

JB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:35:22 -0400
From: John H Bogan Jr <jbogan@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: "Dogs" in traveller

At 11:31 PM 10/5/1998 +0000, you wrote:

>Does anybody have ideas about what 'companion' animals 
>would be like in the Traveller universe?  

Any number of critters from various worlds.
Focaline tree rats were pretty common in my campaigns.

>What 'Biological' inhancemant would good old shep go
>through to become the pet of tomarrow?  

In one MT "interview," the subject travelled with
a geneered dog, which among other things was 
more intelligent than regular breeds. This let it
follow more complicated commands, but it wasn't
sophont-level intelligence.

>How do the aventures deal the the 'gaurd beast' protecting 
>the warehouse where their confiscated cargo is stored?

When they were on the ball, they planned for that 
contingency. When they weren't .... anything from
geese honking (loudly) to Ravenous Bug-Bladder Beasts
of Traal welcomed them.

JB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:41:55 +0100
From: Paul Bendall <pbendal@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: What I would like to see in T5. (Quite Long)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> T5 plans to keep the basic character generation system of T4. The standard is
> that characters get (on average) one skill per year. I think I'll still keep
> Recon and JOT. All skills will be defined and include task examples that used
> them in a variety of settings and situations. Charisma will not be added.

Shame about Charisma, but basically I quite liked the T4 system.

> T5 retains the Str Dex End hit system, but introduces a variety of hit types
> in addition to hits, in order to take into account the effects of heat, cold,
> suffocation, etc. Some hits affect Int (temporarily) in order to produce
> unconsciousness.

Good to hear. I have always liked the way Trav dealt with hits by reducing stats.
Personally I always applied the stat mods immediately i.e. if your stats go down
below the bonus level you lose the bonus. From memory T4 said that any stat bonuses
were retained regardless of hits.

> The combat system will be re-worked and be essentially task based. Extensive
> task examples will be provided. I am working on interrupts and initiative.

I've never used interrupts and can't quite see the point of them. Ordinary initiative
seems to have worked out OK IMTU.

> The QSDS will be revised. It will be extended to 10,000 tons. A larger system
> will cover larger ships.
> THe USP becomes a Ship Card with appropriate blanks for data. It will be
> integrated into the ship combat system.

QSDS was something I really liked in T4. It gave the feeling of a bit more detail
than books 2 or 5 without going into FF&S. IMHO it'd be nice to bring back
multi-weapon turrets and a hardpoint limit.One other thing is that the ships included
in the basic book need to be able to be duplicated using the included rules.

>  6. The rules should include equipment running the gamut from Mileau 0 to
>  the TNE era.
>
> Yes. Based on Equipment Cards and Weapon Cards, each of which carries the data
> necessary for use.

Nice. Kind of like Emporer's Arsenal / Vehicles? Those books redeemed T4 in my eyes.
Nice clear info with nice art.

I look forward to seeing T5.

Paul Bendall

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:48:43 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Vehicle & Starship Design

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:57:16 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 20:16:46 -0500
>From: Charles R Hensley <z3crh@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1998 #886
>
>>At 03:07 pm 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:
>>><<So there is NO EXCUSE
>>>WHATSOEVER for having a system as user unfriendly as MTrav/FF&S or
>>GV2.
>>>None.>>
>>
>>        Except for the fact that there ARE people other than you who do
>like
>>them and who do purchase them and who do use them ... but then
>>putting out something customers want isn't always the free market
>>way, is it?
>
>I agree with Dave on this.  If it wasn't for this "user unfriendly"
>material I would have dropped Traveller long ago.  My first book was
>High Guard, and it did NOT go into enough detail for me.  I disliked
>Book 2 from the start.  and from the discussions on trav-tech there is a
>need for a comprehensive vehicle design.  Although we should do our best
>to make a fast/simple version for the basic rules.

Fine. At least you admit it *IS* "user UNFRIENDLY".

Like I said, there are lots of people on this list who are gearheads to the nth
degree. Great. Is this list representative of the wider gaming public? Are they
even a majority *on* this list?

Sales of FF&S (or GV2, for that matter) don't even give a clue. *I* have FF&S
(#1, not #2 ... couldn't see the point) and have both GV1 and GV2 ... I also
have CORPS VDS. I've tried all of them ... *all* of them ... and the only ones
that were of any use to me *AS A VEHICLE DESIGN SYSTEM* were GV1 and VDS.

The others were useless.

Sure, if they had provided a spreadsheet *ALREADY WRITTEN* to allow you to plug
and play with the figure, I would have (and still would) feel differently. They
didn't.

Why did I buy these books, then?

For the same reason I buy a lot of stuff, there's *something* in it that might
be of use. The vehicle systems weren't much, but the background they implied, no
matter how broken the rest of the stuff was, was usable, and almost worth the
price (hey, I don't smoke, I'm a teetotaller, so what other vices can I spend my
money on ;-)

Sales do not *necessarily* indicate that many people use them to design
vehicles. Nor does possible gearhead majority on this list. Both are quite
possibly atypical.

Phil
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au | www.fandom.net/~PGD/index.htm
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES! StaRPlay:Armageddon and Dark Star are now available from www.hyperbooks.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU); Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:47:11 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re TNE Assets

>>TNE's d20 system was cumbersome, simply due to math in play or having 5
>>assets written down on a sheet, as P.N. did.
>>
>I am not sure I follow you...do you mean that it was a lot easier for the
>mathematically-differently-enabled if they calculated their assets for each
>difficulty level in advance for each skill?
>
>Colin

Not exactly... that NORMALLY speeds up TNE play however
UPP: A77558-5-5
Skill		Easy	Avg	Diff	Form	Imp
Piloting-2	28	14	7	4	2
Admin-4		36	18	9	5	2

Is easier for some players. The problem comes when these types use a hand
comp with the right program for a +1 to base asset (difficult collumn),
resulting in the following rolls

Pilot-2 + comp	32	16	8	4	2
Admin-4 + comp	40	20	10	5	3

more extreme example could be applied, but I found that TNE really slowed
down most players in my group, save peter. Including myself.

In MT, we just pre-calced all the att DM's, and recalced post-combat for
injured dm's, as per MT rules.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:04:41 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Cats in Traveller

><< Does anybody have ideas about what 'companion' animals would be like in the
> Traveller universe?  What 'Biological' inhancemant would good old shep go
> through to become the pet of tomarrow?  What about felus dimesticus?  What
> new 'pets' and gaurd animals would there be?  I think such animal could add
> some interesting color to traveller ships passengers and adventures.  How do
> the aventures deal the the 'gaurd beast' protecting the warehouse where
> their confiscated cargo is stored?
>
> Charles.
>  >>
>
>I can't wait for the 50 kilo cat! That would be one BIG friggen litter box to
>empty...:-)
>
IMTU, there is a typeical "Ship-cat", ranging from 10-40 kilos, derived
from the NorthAmerican Bobcat. Geneered for higher intelligence (although
not a full uplift), tollerance for 0-G, and the ability to get really harsh
when "friends" are threatened. Retractable claws and carpeted ships make
for good 0 or low G traction, plus claws and teeth. Figure out stats for
your favorite edition... it is a carnivore-pouncer. Typically, these
critters are about as intelligent as beaker moneys or most primates, and
bred for both intellect and trainability. Attack training (on command &//or
when owner is held at weapon point) is common, as is poison proofing (will
only eat from ONE dish, and only if that dish is in the right location.
Usually needs a decent litterbox, but can be trained to use a standard
fresher (formidable, animal handling, takes several (2d6) weeks of doing
nothing else and about cr50 in training aids, which it gets weaned off of.

Typical coloring runs gold, beige, dun, grey, brown, or mottled. Tail is
stumpy and useless. Cost runs Cr50-500 for kittens, though KCr5-20 for
adults with som training, dependant upon lineage, papers, and training.
Found in and near the solomani rim, but sometimes seen as far away as the
domain of deneb.

If allowed, a mother trained to use a fresher will teach her kittens the same.

Typically, they are given run of the crew spaces (except SR's) other than
passenger areas. Access to doors to passenger areas is one-way: out of them.

They require about an hour of attention a day minimum... and tend to be
fairly loyal.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:13:42 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>>IMTU, the imperium IS ruthless. No gentle trade association, it fosters
>>free trade so as to foster a stable tax base from which to perpetuate its
>>self. It protects Sapient rights only so that sapients will be ablke to
>>work and pay taxes, and maintain order. Truth be told, the imperium
>>couldn't care less about Jack being killed by Jill, save that it defines
>>Murder as a crime so that members will join. All the benefits are merely
>>there to get members to stay members, so that the Imperium gets its taxes.
>
>  My, now that is cynical! (are you sure that you're not Illuminated?)
>
>  Hmm, now if I could only think of a (competent) government that _didn't_
>behave that way...
>
I'm a rational cynic, not a conspiracy theorist. At least not in traveller.
The Imperium really isn't going to give a whit more than it has to to
insure it's economic base... even if it really is a Makhidkarun or
Sharushiid plot.

IMTU, there ARE conspiracies... of mortal men. There are conspiratorial
organizations, like the Order of the Golden Dawn, the Church of Universal
Harmony, the Church of the Chosen one, the entire Hiver race.... But I
don't think there is any one cabal of illuminati in control... there are
too many wonderful, low end conspiracies for that.... Now, report for
indoctrination into  the Imperial Sub-ministry of Internal Administrative
Security for re-programing, and ask for Dr. M. Bender, who will help you
understand. ;-)

Just for reference, I don't run CORPS 1st Ed nor G:Illuminati since they
remind me too much of real life....

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:23:05 +0200
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Vehicle & Starship Design

>Why did I buy these books, then?
>
>For the same reason I buy a lot of stuff, there's *something* in it that might
>be of use. The vehicle systems weren't much, but the background they
>implied, no
>matter how broken the rest of the stuff was, was usable, and almost worth the
>price (hey, I don't smoke, I'm a teetotaller, so what other vices can I
>spend my
>money on ;-)
>
>Sales do not *necessarily* indicate that many people use them to design
>vehicles. Nor does possible gearhead majority on this list. Both are quite
>possibly atypical.
>
>Phil

I see the Vehicle design systems as Compilers in the computer biz. Most
people wont need or use a compiler, they're happy with Excel, Word etc but
software developers need the compilers to make the Excel and Word users
happy, the same with design systems. If there isn't any design system most
made up vehicles would be useless as each designers tech concept would vary
wildly, with GV2 for instance I can join the GURPS mailing list and get a
complete design every day or so that is consistent with the gaming
universe.

Some refs/players of Traveller may not need FF&S but the fact that it is
there might give those players ready made designs.

I have GV2, VDS, High Guard 1ed & 2ed, Striker I, FF&S 1 & 2 but I don't
use them as I got my own design system that works well for me. I wouldn't
say that buying those books was a waste of my money as they've given me
hints on how to do my own design system and rules about vehicles. I
especially encourage Refs to buy GV2 for the Vehicle action rules, great
stuff wether one uses GURPS or not.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:33:55 -0800
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Imperial Govt IMTU

>>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
>>Subject: Re Transponders
>...
>>Still IMTU, the Imperium actually likes small local warfare, as war does
>>stimulate economies. In certain areas, the ImpNav will infiltrate and START
>>a local wwar to foster economic and technological development, and to force
>>local tensions to come ouit into the open.
>
>  I'm sure that the Imperiums representatives can think of various reasons
>to make their locales more exciting, but the economic growth attributed to
>warfare is a particularly naughty and inaccurate overgeneralization - you
>could just as well build pyramids (or throw shells, aircraft and tanks into
>the ocean if it amused you) as long as you can command the resources and get
>everyone to go along with any reductions in their living standard (or numbers
>:> ) that might be involved.

Warfare stimulate certain sections of the economy, and for the winner, they
tend to slowly crawl down, based upon historical evidence currently known;
losers either suddenly drop or build up post-war). Mostly, large
military-industrial complexes. Also, warfare has the side benefits of
population control, and keeping a well honed base to draw the Imperial Army
from. Additionally, it keeps them busy enough distrusting each other that
they don't bother to look at rebelling from tthe Imperium... for they know
that if the other side cheats too often, the ImpMil response will eliminate
them.

I will honestly admit that it seldom does much for standards of living, but
it does wonders for tech development. And tech development spins off. Were
it not for WWII, electronic computing probably would not have advanced as
fast as it did between 1940 and 1960. The drive for a faster code-cracker
was boosted even more with the rise of the cold war in the 50's, but has
it's origins in the code-cracking of WWII.

Similarly, cold war and low-level hostilities in "buffers" are the best way
to test new weapons systems, which tends to drag along the supporting
technology. Take for example, the humble Catapillar Bulldozer, which uses a
continuous track motive system, which was perfected primarily for tanks,
from early models for farm tractors. Development that probably would not
have been nearly as fast as without the war (WWI).

And of course, the Radar, which keeps Millions much safer in the air. A
wartime development. Which has since spun of into Microwave overs,
Astronomy, Cell Phones, etc.

Medicine also benefits from warfare, and (altho the AMA doesn't like to
admit it) from wartime atrocities. Much of the modern knowledge of exposure
to cold and to deprivations is based upon captured NAZI deathcamp
experimental data. A lot can be learned about how to save lives by learning
just exactly the most efficient ways to kill. Penicillan was a wartime
development. Modern trauma techniques are based upon WWII and Korean era
MASH techniques, refined again in Vietnam. Poison and Disease
control/treatment is much advanced based upon potential as weapons... the
soviets killed many of their own in exposures during training for CBR
warfare with live chem agent, then did detailed autopsies to figure out
exactly what the toxins did. And got a good bit more from using chem
warfare in afganistan.

Most historical technological progress is centered around warfare
technology and its spinoffs. To paraphrase sir B.H. Liddel-Hart, Societies
grow during peacetime, tech during conflict.

William F. Hostman
<Mailto:Aramis@asylumbbs.com><Mailto:aramis@gci.net>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn t4- tt+ to- ?tg ru+ ge 3i+ jt-() au+ st+ ls ls- kk+
as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:55:28 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re Hero Traveller and JoT

At 14:55 5/10/98 -0800, William F. Hostman wrote:
>>JOT was one thing I like and if we are talking about T5 being traveller, it
>>would need JOT.
>>Infact, I use the Hero system now it could benefit from a JOT type skill.
>>I think it gives the GM and Player some ability to be flexible.
>>
>>TV
>For JOT under Hero:
>	Use Cramming Talent (5 pts)[HSR p47, (HG Stock No #500)], possibly
>with the +1 power advantage "also for combat skills". Having multiple slots
>represents multiple levels of traveller JoT.
>another possible PA: assume an adventure is one month, and buy down the
>time at +1/4 per level, or even +1/2 per level.

Or just use the Jack of All Trades Skill Enhancer (though this is much less
powerful than JOT in Traveller). It costs 3 points and reduces the cost of
all professional skills by 1.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:14:50 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Ironclads

At 23:31 5/10/98 +0000, Charles Prevatte wrote:
>At 01:27 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>>The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
>>Hence my statement that defence (armour) had advanced to the point where 
>>you could put enough on a ship to make it invulnerable to its own carried
>
>No a valid argument.  You might as well say the sun is
>invunerable/indistructable simply because it is to massive to be affected by
>the weapon we can put against it.  It's a question of scale.  The guns
>mounted on the iron clads were intended to defeat wooden ships not iron
>clads and the inclads were so overweighted that they sank in a moderate
storm!

While the latter was true of the Monitor and the Merrimak (IIRC the Monitor
did sink while at sea in mild weather), it was not true of the first
ironclads built by the French and English (the Glorie (sp?) and the
Warrior). HMS Warrior was considered to be somewhat clumsy under sail by
the standards of the time because while she had the sail area of a frigate
she had the displacement of a ship of the line because of her armour,
however she was not considered unseaworthy, and was in fact quite steady
because of her large displacement and deep draught. Some of the later ships
were somewhat less sea worthy than their wooden predecessors, but this was
more because of the introduction of steam and turrets than it was from the
armour e.g. HMS Captain sank because of her low freeboard and the poor
sailing characterisitcs that came from her casemates (although IIRC the
Board of Inquiry found her captain to be at fault, as much as her design).

Also note that while early ironclads often were nearly immune to their own
guns this only lasted for a short while, and that it was always possible to
ram your opponent. The Monitor and the Merrimak were both (compared to
European ironclads) undergunned makeshifts. IMO it would be fiar to say
that neither would have lasted very long against, say, HMS Warrior.

BTW the biggest advantages fort guns had were the stable firing platform
giving better range, and being able to fire red-hot shot - which became
increasingly irrelevant as ironclads became more and more common.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:14:50 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Ironclads

At 23:31 5/10/98 +0000, Charles Prevatte wrote:
>At 01:27 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>>The ironclads were severly underguned due to the weight of their armour.
>>Hence my statement that defence (armour) had advanced to the point where 
>>you could put enough on a ship to make it invulnerable to its own carried
>
>No a valid argument.  You might as well say the sun is
>invunerable/indistructable simply because it is to massive to be affected by
>the weapon we can put against it.  It's a question of scale.  The guns
>mounted on the iron clads were intended to defeat wooden ships not iron
>clads and the inclads were so overweighted that they sank in a moderate
storm!

While the latter was true of the Monitor and the Merrimak (IIRC the Monitor
did sink while at sea in mild weather), it was not true of the first
ironclads built by the French and English (the Glorie (sp?) and the
Warrior). HMS Warrior was considered to be somewhat clumsy under sail by
the standards of the time because while she had the sail area of a frigate
she had the displacement of a ship of the line because of her armour,
however she was not considered unseaworthy, and was in fact quite steady
because of her large displacement and deep draught. Some of the later ships
were somewhat less sea worthy than their wooden predecessors, but this was
more because of the introduction of steam and turrets than it was from the
armour e.g. HMS Captain sank because of her low freeboard and the poor
sailing characterisitcs that came from her casemates (although IIRC the
Board of Inquiry found her captain to be at fault, as much as her design).

Also note that while early ironclads often were nearly immune to their own
guns this only lasted for a short while, and that it was always possible to
ram your opponent. The Monitor and the Merrimak were both (compared to
European ironclads) undergunned makeshifts. IMO it would be fiar to say
that neither would have lasted very long against, say, HMS Warrior.

BTW the biggest advantages fort guns had were the stable firing platform
giving better range, and being able to fire red-hot shot - which became
increasingly irrelevant as ironclads became more and more common.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:41:48 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement  - an aside

At 15:41 6/10/98 +0800, Colin Hutchinson wrote:

>Oh dear that was a bit brief: yes Warrior is a fine ocean going vessel.
>The other point was intended to be quite separate. (Whip Whip)  Monitors
>are not prioperly comparable with warships because of a lack of the above
>ability.  They may duel around harbours, but that it about it.  i suspect
>that Ocean going ironclads were more vulnerable to each other than monitor
>versus monitor engagements.  Later I think that the superior broadsides of
>the Ocean going types would overwhelm the monitors.  Interestingly though
>you see the tradition of the 1860's monitor carried on in two directions,
>as army support vessels (Erebus, terror, Leonardo da Vinci), and Coastal
>defence Battleships of the Siamese, and Swedish navies.

The funny thing is that the ironclads were in part an attempt to return to
'the old days' where ships were, in fact, very nearly immune to gunfire.
The old wooden ships of the line used to take pretty much all day to pound
another ship to the point where you could board it, and this was usually
after both sides had decided to fight. One of the reasons Admirals who
managed to catch an outnumbered enemy and destroy or capture them were so
highly thought of was because forcing an opponent into a fight against his
will was damned difficult.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:18:18 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller 

At 19:43 5/10/98 -0400, Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:

>My point has always been, the LBB's were stand alone.  Somebody could buy a 
>set off the shelf in '77 and hack up a game.  A brand new cherry GM,
starting 
>today with GURPS, has to buy up a *pile* of supplements to get started if
they 
>*DON'T* have any other Traveller material around.  That to me is the
*gist* of 
>the problem.  Not 'this system sucks cause it's brand x and not brand y.'
For 
>somebody to decide 'Dammit, I wanna run a role playing game' today, with no 
>backround, he's gonna have to spend some serious money.  Period.  That is
the 
>fact, and it cannot be denied.

Just to throw some fat on the fire I'd like to point out that Deluxe TNE
had everything including the complete construction system in it, including
a couple of subsectors, and a sector map.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:23:51 +1300
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: other RPG mailing lists

At 22:03 5/10/98 -0700, Mark Urbin wrote:

>  Sounds just almost as bad as the "Who is stronger: Gerard or the Hulk?"
>debates on the Amber DRPG mailing list.

Strikes me as a dumb question - Gerard's an Amberite and the Hulk's not.

- -- 
IMTU tc+ tn++ t4- tt+ tg- ru+ ge+ 3i+@ jt+@ au- st- ls- hi+ va+ so+ sy--

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
 
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Web Page: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/rboleyn/index.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 05:37:31 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: (was 

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:51:20 -0500
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: (was "It Isn't Traveller")
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

No, seriously, I have a question for the more scientifically endowed on 
the
list. I got a TNS message today that read (in part):

"The gas-giant planet Plistii, in the Lunion subsector of the Spinward
Marches, underwent a violent shudder beginning on 341-1115, causing some
small concern for the inhabitants of Quiru, one of Plistii's satellites
(Quiru/Lunion 2321)."

Why would this cause some any concern at all for the inhabitants of 
Quiru?

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

=================================

My guess would be, if something has started a pressure wave bouncing 
about in the GG's atmosphere, and is sufficient to start its' center of 
gravity wobbling at near resonant frequency, the moons orbits would also 
start wobbling.  If sufficient, seems that you could tear a planet apart 
this way.  (Shades of Ancient tech here).  I know, its a handwave, but 
hey, I'm the GM, I got lots 'o hands.  =)





Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #898
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Tuesday, October 6 1998      Volume 1998 : Number 899



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Re: A thought on Game Design
Re: Missile defense question
Re: Ironclads
Two ships for GURPS Traveller
Re: Tech advancement
Re: Transponders
Fuzzy logic (Was: Transponders)
Re: Transponder's true nature

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 05:59:20 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:17:47 -0600
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

At 02:06 am 10/5/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I think I have finally hit on a metaphor that perfectly sums up my
feelings
>re: Traveller and GURPS Trav...remember the difference between Coke
(now Coke
>Classic) and New Coke?   Coke is Coke...but obviously not to a large
majority
>of folks out there (is New Coke even available anymore?)

	Even worse, Coke Classic is NOT "Coca Cola" as it existed prior to
New Coke ... the expensive sugar in the secret recipe was replaced
with much cheaper corn syrup. Conspiracy theorists claim New Coke was
simply a smokescreen to cover up the real switcheroo ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
==============================

No no, it was the Templars, no, it was Yaskodray, no, no, thats not it, 
it was the Hivers, yeah, thats it, the Hivers!!  With the help of the 
Masons, yeah, yeah, <insane giggle>



Jim the Politically Incorrect
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:20:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:
> 
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
> 
> Since these folks are getting written up for one of the GT Alien books,
> I have a suggestion.  Don't make them centauroid, since that will be too
> much like the K'Kree and the Virushi.  I'd go for either bipeds with 4
> arms, or possibly for biped/quadropeds who have two arms, two legs, and a
> pari of high strength, lesser dexterity limbs which can function as either
> supplementary arms, or legs (for either greater manipulative capacity, or
> greater speed).  The later would make these flks pretty unique

 
> Also, don't give them tails, since we've already got both the Ithklur and 
> Hhkahr as generic, semi-dinosaurian repto-folk.  


Thanks for the suggestion. However, the race has already been designed
(the book is 98% written as of now, and is just in its final stages).

Fortunately, they are not centuaroid, are indeed bipeds, and do indeed
have four arms with two high ST lower arms and two high dexterity
upper arms...

They are not full citizens of the Zhodani Consulate, but do travel outside
their reservation extensively through it, and can be found operating
merchant vessels, trading with border areas, and settling in enclaves on
various Zhodani worlds. Sharp-eyed readers of the original Alien Module 4:
Zhodani may note that Zhdant's population is "90% racial Zhodani ...
significant non-Zhodani popuplation is primaril Addaxur."

- -David

> Mr. Pulver: Will one of these "minor" aliens be the "mystery lizard" shown in
> the Daibei section of The Rebellion Sourcebook (MT)? I have always wondered
> what this picture represented, as there was NO caption, and no mention of the
> drawing in the Daibei data.

Unless they have only one eye, it's unlikely.

The aliens lizards the Drak Ne' Vha, an expansionist minor race located
between Vargr and Zhodani space. The Drakarans (as Imperial humans tend to
call them) were unusual in reaching late TL10 and colonizing much of their
solar system without developing jump drive. Some Vargr traders happened by
at the wrong moment (around 1050, soon after an interplanetary war had
finished winding down) and were captured. Certain misunderstandings
(mainly of the role of Vargr corsairs) resulted in conflict, and a
Drakaran explosion into Vargr territory whose shockwaves are only
beginning to be felt to rimward as of 1120. The Drak Ne Vha tend not to be
agressive in, say, an Aslan sense, but do have an alien mindset to the
Vargr which tends not to be conducive to peaceful coexistence with them.
The Zhodani Consulate is trying to sort the mess out through diplomacy.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:20:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net>
Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:
> 
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Minor Race: Addaxur
> 
> Since these folks are getting written up for one of the GT Alien books,
> I have a suggestion.  Don't make them centauroid, since that will be too
> much like the K'Kree and the Virushi.  I'd go for either bipeds with 4
> arms, or possibly for biped/quadropeds who have two arms, two legs, and a
> pari of high strength, lesser dexterity limbs which can function as either
> supplementary arms, or legs (for either greater manipulative capacity, or
> greater speed).  The later would make these flks pretty unique

 
> Also, don't give them tails, since we've already got both the Ithklur and 
> Hhkahr as generic, semi-dinosaurian repto-folk.  


Thanks for the suggestion. However, the race has already been designed
(the book is 98% written as of now, and is just in its final stages).

Fortunately, they are not centuaroid, are indeed bipeds, and do indeed
have four arms with two high ST lower arms and two high dexterity
upper arms...

They are not full citizens of the Zhodani Consulate, but do travel outside
their reservation extensively through it, and can be found operating
merchant vessels, trading with border areas, and settling in enclaves on
various Zhodani worlds. Sharp-eyed readers of the original Alien Module 4:
Zhodani may note that Zhdant's population is "90% racial Zhodani ...
significant non-Zhodani popuplation is primaril Addaxur."

- -David

> Mr. Pulver: Will one of these "minor" aliens be the "mystery lizard" shown in
> the Daibei section of The Rebellion Sourcebook (MT)? I have always wondered
> what this picture represented, as there was NO caption, and no mention of the
> drawing in the Daibei data.

Unless they have only one eye, it's unlikely.

The aliens lizards the Drak Ne' Vha, an expansionist minor race located
between Vargr and Zhodani space. The Drakarans (as Imperial humans tend to
call them) were unusual in reaching late TL10 and colonizing much of their
solar system without developing jump drive. Some Vargr traders happened by
at the wrong moment (around 1050, soon after an interplanetary war had
finished winding down) and were captured. Certain misunderstandings
(mainly of the role of Vargr corsairs) resulted in conflict, and a
Drakaran explosion into Vargr territory whose shockwaves are only
beginning to be felt to rimward as of 1120. The Drak Ne Vha tend not to be
agressive in, say, an Aslan sense, but do have an alien mindset to the
Vargr which tends not to be conducive to peaceful coexistence with them.
The Zhodani Consulate is trying to sort the mess out through diplomacy.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:20:17 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller

- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:26:04 EDT
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Running GURPS:Traveller
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

In a message dated 10/5/98 12:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jamstar@glasscity.net writes:

<< 
 I like the High Guard system.  Sure, it doesn't break the design down 
further
 than the system level, but that's almost as gearheaded as I need to be.  
I've
 never had the time to sit down and learn the MT system of doing things.
 
 Keven
  >>
 

Yeah, HG's system level detail is really what most need most of the 
time.  I use a mixture of QSDS, SSDS, and FFS2.  I'm something of a 
gearhead, but if a ship for my PbEM is minor, or cannon fodder, it gets 
the low detail approach.  The important stuff gets FFS2.  It all depends 
on the situation.  BTW, Keven, I found some T4 to HG conversion stuff, 
so I'll start doing dual descriptions on my ships from now on.



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:24:55 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Traveller, G: Trav, and Coke

jim clem wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
	Even worse, Coke Classic is NOT "Coca Cola" as it existed prior to
New Coke ... the expensive sugar in the secret recipe was replaced
with much cheaper corn syrup. Conspiracy theorists claim New Coke was
simply a smokescreen to cover up the real switcheroo ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It gets worse than that...

Corn syrup is only "much cheaper" because of the power of sugar
industry lobbyists. The price of sugar is artificially inflated through
the roof - the corn syrup industry wouldn't even exist if sugar prices
weren't so high.

A nice side effect has been the slow destruction of the American
sugar industry - production in Hawaii alone has slipped from over
a million tons a year (in 1987, and for decades before that) to less
than 400,000 tons/year. The lobbyists managed to work themselves
out of a job - the Hawaii Sugar Planter's Association (a major lobbyist
group) closed their Washington offices a year or two ago.

As Coca-Cola moves into the Corn-Syrup Industry's camp, the
power of the Corn Barons continues to grow at the expense of
the Sugar Planters..... <g>


Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:35:13 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: A thought on Game Design

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:25:03 -0500
From: Andrew Akins <igor@ames.net>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: A thought on Game Design
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

Thomas Vickers wrote:

> Subject: Re: A thought on Game Design
<snip> 
> That is the whole reason I ordered GT.
> Not because I want Gurps, but because I lost all my CT in a flood and 
want a
> copy of the background again (I miss the LBB)
> 
> TV

SOB! I understand _exactly_ how you feel, my COMPLETE collection
(Everything of GDWs, most of DGP, some Judge's Guild, some Gamelords,
some FASA) of CT and MT were destroyed in a flood.

Over the years I have spent _tons_ of money trying to rebuild my
collection. I'm nearly finished...all I have left are the hard to find
rare items (Early JTAS, Early Trav Digests, Atlas of the Imperium, Grand
Survey, World builders Handbook, 101 Robots, FASA stuff...).

I wish you the best of luck rebuilding your own collection. I know how
hard it is.

=============

Yep, I lost most of my old CT, along with a LARGE collection of 
wargames, and a nearly complete set of SFB (and you SFB players out 
there know, thats no small pile of stuff) in a fire.  It'll never be 
again I fear.



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:38:49 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Missile defense question

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:02:06 -0600
From: "Joseph Kimball" <HPJKimba@ihc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Missile defense question
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

>>>>
Is it possible to use meson and particle bays (or turrets,
in the case of PAWs) as a last-ditch point defense weapon?  Granted that 
it
would be incredibly wasteful of power and space...but in an emergency?
>>>>
That might be like using a 5in battleship gun against a torpedo or 
missile -- possible but problematical (not to mention overkill).  I 
don't see any problem with aiming (especially since we are assuming 
targeting computers that are reasonably good to get several hex 
precision shots).

<snip>

=====================

The USN's newer 5 inch guns are autoloaded, and capable of a relatively 
high ROF, and rigged to fire controllers that allow them to be used for 
surface or air targets, supposedly including missiles.  Anyone out there 
know more about this??



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:57:01 PDT
From: "jim clem" <travmind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ironclads

- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:14:50 +1300
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Ironclads
Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM

At 23:31 5/10/98 +0000, Charles Prevatte wrote:
>At 01:27 PM 10/2/98 -0700, you wrote:

While the latter was true of the Monitor and the Merrimak (IIRC the 
Monitor
did sink while at sea in mild weather), 

===================

Monitor sank off the Carolinas in a storm.



Jim Clem, B.S.E.
GM, The Scattered Worlds Traveller PbEM, Where Humaniti Carves out a New 
Home
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/7081/trvpg1.html
Founder and CEO, Diasporan Systems, Inc.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:53:10 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Two ships for GURPS Traveller

Here's a couple ships I put together for GURPS Traveller. One is an attempt
to build a new Close Escort to replace the Gazelle, the other a luxury
liner based on the old FASA ship the King Richard. I hope there are less
errors than in previous ships I've done :) I am using a Works 4.0
spreadsheet that I designed, which is helping a lot.


JACKSON Class Close Escort (TL-12)

	This ship is designed for close escort duty, supporting other smaller
vessels, and patrol duties.

400-ton SL hull, DR 631, Basic Bridge, Engineering, 58 Maneuver, 20 Jump,
160 Fuel, 11 Staterooms (1 double occupancy, 6 double occupancy for crew, 6
double occupancy for troops), Sickbay, Utility, Vehicle Bay (carries 20
tons of small craft, normally a Gig),
4 Turrets (Triple laser turrets, 3 405 Mj lasers in each), 2.7 cargo (+12
in turrets).

STATISTICS: EMass 1126.499 LMass 1159.999 Hit Points 42300 Hull Size
Modifier +9

PERFORANCE: Acceleration 5G, Jump 4, Air Speed 3927.5351

CREW: 1x Captain, 1x Pilot, 1x Navigator, 1x Sensors, 1x Commo, 3x
Engineers, 1x Medic,
4x Gunners, 12x Troops


KING WILLIAM Luxury Liner (TL-12)
	
This ship is a liner that carries 831 passengers (303 High, 456 Mid, 72
Low) in as much comfort as can be achieved in a modern space liner.
Opulently fitted, this vessel plies the spaceways in established routes and
safe areas, as it contains no armament. (This was originally an attempt to
duplicate the King Richard liner done by FASA).

5000-ton USL hull, DR 100, Command Bridge, Engineering, 71 Maneuver, 150
Jump, 1000 Fuel,
813 Staterooms (54 Crew, 303 High Passage, 456 Mid Passage), 18 Low Berths
(Capacity 72 persons), 2 Sickbay, 10 Utility, 180 Spacedock (holds 18
10-ton lifeboats), 210 Vehicle Bay (carries two 100-ton shuttles), 200
Cargo.

STATISTICS: EMass 5846.12 LMass 7046.12 Hit Points 165,000 Hull Size
Modifier +11

PERFORMANCE: Accel 1G, Jump 2 Air Speed N/A

CREW: 1x Captain, 1x Executive Officer, 3x Pilots, 3x Navigators, 12x
Sensor Ops, 
12x Comunications, 12x Engineers, 138xStewards, 6x Medics

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:31:40 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Tech advancement

Charles Prevatte wrote:

> Again not true.  The NSA can break any currently available software PGP
> scheme in less that 30 days.  The NSA claimed this in a report serveral
> months ago.

Yes they can break _a_ key. What happens when they're intercepting thousands
of message streams with thousands of keys and no way to know what is what...

> Parrallel processing with successive aproximation between each attempt
> greatly reduces the time required.  One PC might take 2 years, 2-1 year, 4-6
> months, 8-3 months, 16-1.5 month 32-.75 months.  There are systems being
> produced today espicially for the NSA for this purpose with over 1000
> process system linked through a high speed bus.  Just using the brute force
> method these systems can defeat long key PGP in hundreds of hours as opposed
> to 10000+ hours.  The company making them is intending to offer them for
> scientic use when they have fullfilled their current contract to supply the NSA.

So, in theory, can a 1000 node Beowulf system, costing about a tenth or less,
but that is beside the point. The system that the NSA needs a gazillion dollar
system to break PGP in 'hundreds of hours' pales beside the $100 or less
required to buy a system to efficiently encrypt messages using that long key
PGP cipher.

The other side to the PGP equation is not only use encryption, but use it
widely. If there are millions of encrypted messages in the stream, how do you
decide which to spend the hundreds of hours breaking? 


> There are no unbeatable systems.  To say there are is to say that perfection
> exists.  

AKAIK, NO one has said that PGP (or any system) is perfect...just hard to
break on a routine basis. Any lock can be picked, any alarm can be
circumvented, any ecryption scheme can be broken. The whole point is: can it
be done in time to provide timely intel...rushing into the smoking hulk of
your headquarters clutching a sheet of paper yelling "I got it! Their message
said they are going to bomb us, uhhh...yesterday!" does little good.

The whole point is, right now, it is far harder to break encryption schemes
than to create new ones. Since this has been true for as long as we have
records, it is rerasonable to assume this will be the state long into the
future. TL-16 encryption will be extremely hard to defeat, probably impossible
to do so in a real-time manner, precicely because the increase in computing
power necessary to break these systems is readily turned around to make
stronger encryption.

So, no it is not a matter of belief or 'not listening to reason'

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:50:08 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponders

Steven Hudson writes:

Charles Prevatte writes:

>>How do you play out the scocial effect of this level of Big Brotherism?
>>This system makes private travel all but imposible.  During regular
>>maintainence the complete log could and probably would be downloaded to the
>>Impires athorities.  You are talking about the equivalent of a log of every
>>place a car went, when it went there, how long it stayed, and in some cases,
>>what it was carrying and who.
> 
>As long as it's not warships being tracked all essential strategic data is
>already available to foreign governments. Even without the SDG boxes you'd
>still have starport (and other vessel/facility) traffic logs, and it requires
>a certain type of intent to believe that that information will not (or can't!)
>be collated.

There's a difference between the Authorities being able to get that information
at the cost of considerable trouble and expense and being able to routinely
get it for free. Remember in the pirate debate, it was argued that collating
this information might cost several hundred thousand credits, but that a
stolen ship is valuable enough to make it worth while to take the trouble.

I can well imagine an Imperium that would have this level of control, but I
don't want to set my adventures in it. Nor do I think that the Imperium of
the OTU is that Imperium (Don't ask me to provide proof of that; it is just
my feeling).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:53:51 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Fuzzy logic (Was: Transponders)

This and the next response is a tad late; the computer broke down yesterday
as I was writing them.
 
Gary replies to Charles Prevatte:

>> You have accused another resonder that he will not believe you because he
>> refuses to do so in the face of your logic.  You are guilty of the same
>
>No, that's not what I said.  I said Hans didn't like them to begin with and
>he doesn't.  So any "evidence" he finds that points to any incongruities
>merely reinforces his preconceived opinions IMO.

The evidence of incongruities I've found is the reason why I don't like them
in the first place. You're putting the cart before the horse.

>I think that the storyline (of the life, death, and aftermath of the Third
>Imperium) should be justified and reconciled where there are incongruities.

Funny, that's the position I've argued all along. But you claim that there
are no incongruities in the first place.

>Me and Hans have discussed matters in this province before. He doesn't like
>TNE and i'm not losing sleep about it.

You must get most of your excersise from jumping to conclusions. I've never
said that I don't like TNE. I spent a lot of effort on the Pocket Empire
mailing list working on a TNE campaign background (and had a lot of fun
doing it). What I don't like are inconsistencies. And I'm not too fond of
people who introduce new elements that are inconsistent with previously
published material and then insist that the NEW stuff should be considered
superior to the old one merely because it is new. My attitude to new stuff
is that it is the obligation of the author of such to make sure that it is
"backward compatible" (Unless the old stuff was flawed to begin with, of
course).

>You've removed my meaning from the context it was presented in.  What I
>admitted was that The Traveller Adventure is just as easily moved to 1086
>IMTU as it is in the 1100 era, and that the transponders of TTA are the
>pre-Deyo transponders (adopted in 1088 w/ a 12 year retrofit period).

You can do that IYTU bacause it is yours and no one disputes your right to
do anything you damn well please in your own personal TU. That's not in
dispute. What we are discussing (well... what I am discussing, anyway) is
what we, each of us personally, think that future authors of official
Traveller material _ought_ to regard as canon.

>Hmm... 12 years makes 1100... what's the date of TTA? I'm assuming 1105 or
>so.

Starts in 1105, runs over two years or so. The trade war is close to the end
of the campaign. 1107ish.

>Being in the Spinward Marches (I presume) and thus a backwater, maybe one
>can justify TTAs transponders being the old style even in 1105. Ya think? ; )

Can you? That would involve regarding one of the statements in _Survival
Margin_ as untrue, and the moment you do that, you lose whatever moral
advantage you may have from insisting that _Survival Margin_ is the gospel
truth. If you are willing to change one statement in SM, what justification
do you have for requiring the rest of us to accept the rest of it
unconditionally? Do you have different standards of the arguments you require of us
and of the arguments you allow yourself to use?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now.
Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:00:41 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Transponder's true nature

Gary (TravelrTNE@aol.com) writes:
>>>The point is that if it's proven to be unforgable (and the Imperials have
>>>no back door in there), it's as effective for the foreign polities to use
>>>it as is it for the Imperials.
>> 
>>Gary, it is impossible to prove a negative. The only way the foreign
>>governments could be sure that the Imperials didn't have a back door would
>>be if they had the complete specifications. And even then they couldn't be
>
>Give them complete specs.  I've acquiesed to this... hell... even let them
>in RS Omicron (under extremely heavy supervision and internal security, of
>course).

I love the way you reply to the bits you (think you) have the answers to and
ignore the rest. Thank heaven for cut and paste. 

"...even then they couldn't be sure that the Imperials didn't have a
different one tucked away that did have a back door. And how would they know
which type was in any given transponder? That would require that they had
unlimited access to inspect them.

And even if the Imperial could prove all of this, human nature is such that
the professional paranoiacs of those foreign governments would be quite sure
that the Imperials had pulled a fast one. At the very least I can't see any
of them being willing to run the risk."
                                     ---- me in my previous post

>>Finally, you ignored the point that the foreign governments would not be
>>thrilled to have the TRUTH of their ship movements freely available to the
>>Imperials.
>
>This doesn't happen.  All the transponders record is registry information,
>etc.

Ah! I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you had claimed that one
reason why transponders couldn't be forged was that they exchanged "past
history" notes about their earlier travels and encounters that was so
detailed that it was an impossible task to simulate them. That must have
been someone else, then. I really do have to start keeping back files of
current discussions.

Anyway, just what is the information the Deyo chips exchange and how do they
recognize a perfectly genuine transponder that has been fed false info?

>>OK. It's obviously useless to try to convince you that the Deyo transponders
>>can be forged.
>
>lol.  How can they be forged?  If you've given a method for forging them,
>please repost (or give me the date/time of that message).  You have alot of
>misconceptions about the operations of the chips. 

Well, it's lucky for me that I have such a knowledgable expert as you to set
me straigth.

Now pay attention: 1) You steal a blank transponder. One of those millions of
transponders that are made at the Central Repository of All Deyo Chips and
shipped all over the Imperium. 2) You bribe someone with the required
knowledge and equipment to install genuine transponders to install it.

Hey presto! You now have a false transponder indistinguishable from a genuine
one.

>>Apparently you don't mind that this specifically is contrary to various
>>previously published material and by inference invalidates quite a few other
>>CT and MT adventures (those where such a transponder would make the action
>>either impossible or suicidal).
>
>I addressed this in a post to Charles.  What year is TTA set in?  The
>transponders were required in 1088 w/ a 12 grace period according to
>Survival Margin. That makes 1100.

Right so far.

>Seeing how the Spinward Marches is a backwater, it's more than acceptable
>a ship or hundred fell through the cracks...

It surprises me not at all that it is acceptable to you. But it is not what
Survival Margin states: "...over the course of a 12-year phase-in period,
were retrofitted to all existing vessels..." (SM, p. 71). All existing
vessels, it says. The 12 year grace period is what it takes to get all the
way out into the uttermost edges of the Imperium. Including the Spinward
Marches.

Then there are:

_Citizens of the Imperium_, p. 15: "The ship's transponders can be altered to
identify the vessel as having any of a variety of missions and identities."

_76 Patrons_, p. 7: "The registration transponder of the vessel will then be
changed, new papers forged, and the ship will be turned over to the
adventurers as payment."

_76 Patrons_, p. 12: "...the ship's papers are forged..."

_76P_, p. 13: An adventure involving a scout using his ship to attack a yacht.
Another adventure where the PCs are hired to use their ship in an attack on a
SuSAG facility.

_76 P, p. 37: "The patron does not own the free trader, but has stolen it."

_Knightfall_, p. 45: "[The ship has had] its transponder replaced with a
military grade transponder (one that allows changing IDs from a panel dialog
on the bridge)."

There's a whole slew of information in _Starship Operator's Manual_ about
civilian and military transponders that runs counter to the info in SM, but
I know you regard DGP publications as non-canonical, so I won't bother to
enumerate it.

I'm confident that there are other instances in _Traveller's Digest_ and
_Magatraveller Journal_, but given your attitude to DGP I haven't bothered
to go through them.

>the cracks should all be fixed by 1116.

_Knightfall_ is by GDW and is set circa 1120. I can't imagine what reason you
will cook up for why that somehow dosen't count, but I'm confident that you
will think of something.

>>...if the pirate ship "Predator" has had an extra transponder installed and
>>that transponder has been told that it has been installed in the "Completely
>>Harmless", then it will say so.
>
>Off hand, I'd say a cymbeline chip would know another one was nearby... have
>part of the breeding programming be to fire the tamper circuit if one is is
>within a certain distance (like on the same ship).  For starters, anyways.

SOM describes just such a setup. But I was forgetting, DGP products don't
count, do they?

>>Does anyone else besides Gary have trouble understanding why the Imperial
>>Navy would like to be able to conceal their ship movements and even put out
>>misinformation?
>
>One more time... Only registry information.

But even without being incessantly logged by every passing merchant, naval
ships will want to be able to broadcast fake IDs on occasion. Anyway, it is
no longer a matter of conjecture on my part; _Knightfall_ states that
military transponders do have that capability.

>>>Traveller "canon" did not end w/ original Traveller. Can you live w/ that?
>> 
>>As long as the new material is both self-consistent and consistent with
>>previously published material, then I welcome it.
>
>You just added two qualifiers.

So I did. What's your point?

>Of course, you have yet to prove that the material is not *self-consistent.*
>The TTA, for example, is easily explained (and most of the area behind the
>claw can go for the same expanation). Backwater, not yet in line w/ Imperial
>regulations.

"...over the course of a 12-year phase-in period, were retrofitted to all
existing vessels..." (SM, p. 71). ALL existing vessels, it says.

>>That seems to be the difference between us. You see _any_ development,
>>however silly, as an improvement. I only see the improvements as
>>improvements.
>
>"In the interest of moving this discussion along I'll refrain from the
>obvious rejoinder."  ; )

It's encouraging to see that you are not incapable of learning. Give yourself
a pat on the back from me.

>The real questions are: Do you think the Traveller universe as described in
>the rest of the material we have  --  everything EXCEPT _Survival Margin_,
>more or less  --  really do describe a universe where transponders are
>tamperproof and provide perfect (after the fact) information about all ship
>movement? And would you like to run your adventures in such a universe?

>I see nothing in MT (outside of DGP and that is limited to the SOM)

Until Marc Miller declares the DGP material uncanonical it is just as much
part of the Traveller background as anything else. And I do not concede that
you are entitled to ignore the vast amount of CT material either. Though it
is a very simple way of resolving canon conflict, I give you that: Just cut
the amount of canonical material down to a small fraction of all that has
been published. Simple and effective. But not a solution I accept.

>...which invalidates that Deyo transponders are part of everyday use. The
>only inconsistencies would be TTA, adventures etc.

In short, pretty much everything except _Survival Margin_.

>All in the Spinward Marches area (and explainable by "backwater").

"...over the course of a 12-year phase-in period, were retrofitted to all
existing vessels..." (SM, p. 71).

Incidentally, _Knightfall_ takes place in Massila, a core sector, in 1120.

>Only registry information is recorded by the transponder.  And in any case,
>the transponders aren't used in the New Era.   They're history, man. : )

This appears to me to be completely and utterly irrelevant to the discussion
at hand. What point are you trying to make?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1998 #899
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